From joeroback at yahoo.com Sat Oct 1 00:16:03 2005 From: joeroback at yahoo.com (Joe Roback) Date: Sat Oct 1 00:16:05 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] DLIST Survey Message-ID: <20051001041603.78093.qmail@web35815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You are invited to complete an online survey of scholarly communication behaviors specifically those related to self-archiving. The survey is part of a study that is being conducted by the editors of DLIST. The survey is available at http://dlist.sir.arizona.edu/survey.html. DLIST, http://dlist.sir.arizona.edu/, is the Digital Library of Information Science and Technology, an Open Access Archive (OAA) and cross-institutional repository of full-text electronic resources in Library and Information Science and Information Technology. Additionally, DLIST offers an open access aggregator and federated search service through DL-Harvest, http://dlharvest.sir.arizona.edu/, which brings together materials from ten (10) archives. You are welcome to complete the survey whether or not you are a current user of DLIST. DLIST is a service of the School of Information Resources and Library Science in partnership with the Learning Technologies Center of the University of Arizona. Thanks Joe Roback University of Arizona __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From dmattison at shaw.ca Sat Oct 1 23:29:51 2005 From: dmattison at shaw.ca (D.H. Mattison) Date: Sat Oct 1 23:39:15 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Flu Wiki, who needs it? In-Reply-To: <433DC2FC.5090002@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: I blogged the Flu Wiki and criticized it. One of the developers responded. I knew the first sentence couldn't be true: "... if there were such a site run by, let?s say, CDC, we wouldn?t need a Flu Wiki. it is precisely because CDC does not that we do." A Google for "pandemic site:gov" revealed the CDC's very thorough and authoritative site on influenza/pandemic preparedness, including a special page on the bird flu. Many state- and municipal/regional-level governments also have public health agencies that provide current information on influenza prevention and outbreaks. Here're two examples from Massachusetts (http://www.mass.gov/dph/cdc/epii/flu/pandemic.htm) and King County, Washington (http://www.metrokc.gov/prepare/preparerespond/hazardsdisasters/flu.aspx), from the first page of Google hits. If you Google "influenza pandemic" or "flu pandemic" you'll also get the World Health Organization site on pandemic preparedness (http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic/en/) on the first page. You can read my blog entry and comments at http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress/?p=1409 David Mattison Victoria, BC, Canada dmattison@shaw.ca Tiki Wiki Hut: http://www.davidmattison.ca/tiki Ten Thousand Year Blog: http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Oct 3 10:29:11 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Oct 3 10:29:11 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Open Content Alliance announced Message-ID: <3E074641-7C10-4310-864F-F3DBEA65E485@ucop.edu> "The Open Content Alliance, a project that Yahoo is backing with several other partners, plans to provide digital versions of books, academic papers, video and audio. Much of the material will consist of copyrighted material voluntarily submitted by publishers and authors, said David Mandelbrot, Yahoo's vice president of search content. Other participants in the alliance announced Monday include Adobe Systems Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co., the Internet Archive, O'Reilly Media Inc., the University of California and the University of Toronto." More at: NYTimes article: Project Web Site: UC Press Release: Roy Tennant From bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu Mon Oct 3 10:40:46 2005 From: bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu (Beatrice Pulliam) Date: Mon Oct 3 10:40:51 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web survey software suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510031440.j93EekZ19521@postoffice.providence.edu> Hi, Anyone have any experience with PHP based survey software like Chumpsoft or others? We're looking for software we can install and control on our servers. Please feel free to respond to me offlist with any suggestions. Thanks. Beatrice Pulliam ---- Beatrice R. Pulliam Reference Librarian and Assistant Professor Phillips Memorial Library Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918 401.865.2891 http://www.providence.edu/Academics/Phillips+Memorial+Library/ IM: pclibchat (AIM/iChat/Yahoo) From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Oct 3 10:48:28 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Mon Oct 3 10:48:31 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Yahoo book digitization project Message-ID: Carlson, Scott and Jeffrey R. Young. Chronicle of Higher Education. October 3, 2005. "Yahoo Inc. has teamed up with the University of California, the University of Toronto, and several archives and technology companies on a project that could potentially bring the complete texts of millions of volumes into digital form...The new archive is called the Open Content Alliance...Libraries involved in the project can have their books scanned by the Internet Archive for 10 cents per page, which leaders of the project say is far below the standard price of scanning... Leaders of the project stressed that no books that are under copyright will be scanned unless the copyright holders give explicit permission." Full text of the article is available at (no subscription required): http://chronicle.com/free/2005/10/2005100301t.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From cruby at micron.com Mon Oct 3 13:21:25 2005 From: cruby at micron.com (cruby@micron.com) Date: Mon Oct 3 13:21:35 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Internet Librarian Conference - Roommate needed (female) Message-ID: <95B16B7B5813CD45B1C720286B34DD3801963904@ntxboimbx12.micron.com> Please excuse the cross postings. Posted for a colleague not on this list. Please reply directly to her at alexia.estabrook@providence-stjohnhealth.org I'll be attending the Internet Librarian conference and was wondering if anyone on this listserv who may be going would want to share a hotel room. I'm looking for a female non-smoker. Alexia Estabrook, MSLS, AHIP Providence Hospital Helen L. DeRoy Medical Library Southfield, MI 248-849-3277 direct 248-849-3294 main 248-849-3201 fax Carolyn Ruby-Weilage Micron Research Library Micron Technology Boise, ID cruby@micron.com 208-368-4257 From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Mon Oct 3 14:32:37 2005 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Mon Oct 3 14:37:11 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E03BAC552@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> A colleague of mine brought this to my attention: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MAGIC-MIRROR-N&cat=NET HTH. ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Web Services 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robertson, James > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC > > > Web4Lib-ers, > > Anyone know if there is a hardware or software solution that > allows two keyboards and mouses to work on the same PC at the > same time? > > The fantasy in mind is a group of 5 students working on a > project gathered around one PC: two students working on a Word doc in > one corner of the screen (one dictating, one typing), two students > coding up some C++ in another corner of the screen (one consulting a > manual, one typing), and one student getting the lattes. :-) > > --Jim > > Jim Robertson > Assistant University Librarian > NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology) > 323 King Blvd., Newark, NJ 07102-1982 > 973-596-5798 -- james.c.robertson@njit.edu -- www.library.njit.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From pfa at umich.edu Mon Oct 3 16:19:45 2005 From: pfa at umich.edu (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Mon Oct 3 16:19:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Flu Wiki, who needs it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, David, I'm not seeing anything on FluWiki that denigrates the CDC at all. Indeed, there are 110 pages in FluWiki that link to or mention CDC activities and resources. They seem to link to all the resources you mentioned on pages like: They have a statement that seems (to me) to explain and justify the perceived conflict. "No one, in any health department or government agency, knows all the things needed to cope with an influenza pandemic. But it is likely someone knows something about some aspect of each of them and if we can pool and share our knowledge we can advance preparation for and the ability to cope with events. This is not meant to be a substitute for planning, preparation and implementation by civil authorities, but a parallel effort that complements, supports and extends those efforts." I do see the DemFromCT response on you blog page, but the person speaking is not identified. Who knows? The actual FluWiki organizers might be horrified at what s/he says. We have no way of knowing if the respondent is affiliated in the way they imply. Regarding your blogged comment, "While the site's purpose is more as an information service for preparedness, an open wiki from a non-health or science agency is the very last kind of Web site anyone should use as a expert source for health or scientific information," I disagree. By allowing open public commentary from interested parties, wikis have the potential to create a more dynamic and immediate dialog on any given topic. Sure, someone might say something that isn't accurate, and then other people will jump on it and say WHY it isn't accurate, the dialog gets going, and people who are not expert are more likely to understand the big picture of the concern. I don't see a problem with someone posting inaccurate information, UNLESS those who know better just sit there and don't say anything. I think the public stands to learn more and understand better and be *less* susceptible to quackery if it is freely discussed in an open forum. I am very happy to see some health wikis on important topics. One of the key struggles in providing medical information to the public has been defining authority and trust. The professional medical community rightly wants to limit information to what they are sure is accurate. Sometimes this contributes to delays in releasing information on innovative treatments or areas of inquiry. Some health care consumers see this as biased censorship, and respond by not trusting the primary experts. Public wikis offer a way to provide point and counterpoint discussions, and hopefully engender a more trusted health information environment. I'm not personally expert enough to say whether the FluWiki itself has sound content. I will however go on record as being thrilled at the effort and the potential it represents for shared dialog about a major health concern. Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu On Sat, 1 Oct 2005, D.H. Mattison wrote: > I blogged the Flu Wiki and criticized it. One of the developers > responded. I knew the first sentence couldn't be true: "... if there > were such a site run by, let’s say, CDC, we wouldn’t need a Flu > Wiki. it is precisely because CDC does not that we do." A Google for > "pandemic site:gov" revealed the CDC's very thorough and authoritative > site on influenza/pandemic preparedness, including a special page on the > bird flu. Many state- and municipal/regional-level governments also have > public health agencies that provide current information on influenza > prevention and outbreaks. Here're two examples from Massachusetts > (http://www.mass.gov/dph/cdc/epii/flu/pandemic.htm) and King County, > Washington > (http://www.metrokc.gov/prepare/preparerespond/hazardsdisasters/flu.aspx), > from the first page of Google hits. If you Google "influenza pandemic" > or "flu pandemic" you'll also get the World Health Organization site on > pandemic preparedness > (http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic/en/) on the first > page. > > You can read my blog entry and comments at http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress/?p=1409 > > David Mattison > Victoria, BC, Canada > dmattison@shaw.ca > Tiki Wiki Hut: http://www.davidmattison.ca/tiki > Ten Thousand Year Blog: http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From John.Creech at cwu.EDU Mon Oct 3 18:02:45 2005 From: John.Creech at cwu.EDU (John Creech) Date: Mon Oct 3 18:02:50 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web survey software suggestions In-Reply-To: <200510031440.j93EekZ19521@postoffice.providence.edu> References: <200510031440.j93EekZ19521@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <20051003150152.R54885@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Beatrice Pulliam wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone have any experience with PHP based survey software like Chumpsoft or > others? We're looking for software we can install and control on our > servers. Please feel free to respond to me offlist with any suggestions. > Thanks. > > Beatrice Pulliam Beatrice, we've been happy with phpSurveyor, at: http://phpsurveyor.sourceforge.net/index.php John Creech, Systems Librarian Brooks Library, Central Washington University From DMcMahon at co.marin.ca.us Mon Oct 3 18:41:41 2005 From: DMcMahon at co.marin.ca.us (McMahon, Daniel) Date: Mon Oct 3 18:41:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC Message-ID: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF3806E56D5E@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> If all of the users can sit somewhat near the CPU, using USB keyboards and mice should allow multiple devices to work simultaneously. This assumes that they are working on (different parts of?) the same desktop. If the users need to be more distributed, then VNC would probably be a better choice. Dan McMahon Tech Support Analyst -- Technical Services Marin County Free Library -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Junus, Ranti Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:33 AM To: Robertson, James; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC A colleague of mine brought this to my attention: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MAGIC-MIRROR-N&cat=NET HTH. ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Web Services 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robertson, James > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC > > > Web4Lib-ers, > > Anyone know if there is a hardware or software solution that > allows two keyboards and mouses to work on the same PC at the > same time? > > The fantasy in mind is a group of 5 students working on a > project gathered around one PC: two students working on a Word doc in > one corner of the screen (one dictating, one typing), two students > coding up some C++ in another corner of the screen (one consulting a > manual, one typing), and one student getting the lattes. :-) > > --Jim > > Jim Robertson > Assistant University Librarian > NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology) > 323 King Blvd., Newark, NJ 07102-1982 > 973-596-5798 -- james.c.robertson@njit.edu -- www.library.njit.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm From lars at aronsson.se Mon Oct 3 19:40:13 2005 From: lars at aronsson.se (Lars Aronsson) Date: Mon Oct 3 19:40:19 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Open Content Alliance announced In-Reply-To: <3E074641-7C10-4310-864F-F3DBEA65E485@ucop.edu> References: <3E074641-7C10-4310-864F-F3DBEA65E485@ucop.edu> Message-ID: Roy Tennant wrote: > "The Open Content Alliance, a project that Yahoo is backing with > [...] Other participants in the alliance announced Monday > include Adobe Systems Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co., the Internet > Archive, O'Reilly Media Inc., the University of California and > the University of Toronto." This is good news, but the press release and website also mention "the European Archive", and what on earth is that? An uninformed reader might be led to believe it has anything to do with Europe or the European Union. Talking of Europe, there was a press release from the European Commission on Friday September 30, "Commission unveils plans for European digital libraries", supposedly a follow-up to the French national librarian's outcry in January over Google Print and America's cultural imperialism, http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/05/1202&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en (May those who have the shortest URLs win.) -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Project Runeberg - free Nordic literature - http://runeberg.org/ From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Mon Oct 3 20:03:21 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Mon Oct 3 20:04:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC In-Reply-To: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF3806E56D5E@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> (DMcMahon@co.marin.ca.us) References: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF3806E56D5E@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> Message-ID: <20051004000321.3465D43F34@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:41:41 -0700 > From: "McMahon, Daniel" > > If all of the users can sit somewhat near the CPU, using USB > keyboards and mice should allow multiple devices to work > simultaneously. ... but wouldn't it be easier (and even cheaper) just to buy a second PC? _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ Officer: Do you know how fast you were going? / Heisenberg: No, but I know EXACTLY where I was. (Unattributed, sadly) From treebit at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 05:33:37 2005 From: treebit at gmail.com (Jim Smallwood) Date: Tue Oct 4 05:33:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Intranet standards compliance challenge Message-ID: <36dbdbe00510040233x116b3dd5i8ec35961af2f4ea6@mail.gmail.com> Our organization has been striving for a number of years to gain broader compliance on our intranet standards but has met with limited success. We have published standards in place, have appointed specific individuals as content stewards and try to meet regularly with them to maintain an open dialog and seek their input. Corporate support for intranet standards can be uneven (as we suspect it is an many organizations) because demonstrating value can be a challenge. What has worked in your organization? We're interested to find out how other organizations have approached the question of how to enforce/gain compliance with intranet standards in terms of content, style, standard headers/footers, branding, etc. Have you found that a top - down approach works better or is a bottom - up approach more effective? We have been successful to a certain degree but gaining wide acceptance of content and design standards has been much more challenging. Your insights are greatly appreciated! Jim Smallwood treebit@gmail.com From bert.coenen at law.kuleuven.ac.be Tue Oct 4 07:21:08 2005 From: bert.coenen at law.kuleuven.ac.be (bert) Date: Tue Oct 4 07:20:56 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] xul-files for firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434265A4.3080503@law.kuleuven.ac.be> dear all, i'd like to be able to use different browser.xul files for different users on our terminal server. one group of users should have limited access to menus and toolbars, another group should get a kiosk-style-browser. has anyone done this (i mean: setting up different browser layouts on 1 server, i know how and where to modify the xul-files)? regards, bert coenen law library KULeuven belgium Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm From Marian.Dworaczek at usask.ca Tue Oct 4 08:39:34 2005 From: Marian.Dworaczek at usask.ca (Marian Dworaczek) Date: Tue Oct 4 08:39:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Subject Index to Literature on Electronic Sources of Information Message-ID: <00e001c5c8e0$acd6b970$6c53e980@usask.ca> The October 1, 2005 edition of the "Subject Index to Literature on Electronic Sources of Information" is available at: http://library.usask.ca/~dworacze/SUBJIN_A.HTM The page-specific "Subject Index to Literature on Electronic Sources of Information" and the accompanying "Electronic Sources of Information: A Bibliography" (listing all indexed items) deal with all aspects of electronic publishing and include print and non-print materials, periodical articles, monographs and individual chapters in collected works. This edition includes 2,157 indexed titles. Both the Index and the Bibliography are continuously updated. Introduction, which includes sample search and instructions how to use the Subject Index and the Bibliography, is located at: http://library.usask.ca/~dworacze/SUB_INT.HTM This message has been posted to several mailing lists. Please excuse any duplication. ************************************************* *Marian Dworaczek *Monographs Coordinator *University of Saskatchewan Library *E-mail: marian.dworaczek@usask.ca *Home Page: http://library.usask.ca/~dworacze From pwillett at umich.edu Tue Oct 4 09:39:35 2005 From: pwillett at umich.edu (Perry Willett) Date: Tue Oct 4 09:41:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Position announcement: interface/user testing specialist at Univ of Michigan (repost) Message-ID: <000801c5c8e9$11c1dce0$922bd38d@CLUBSODA> The University of Michigan Library is seeking an energetic, enthusiastic individual to be part of the Digital Library Production Service (DLPS) team involved in creating, deploying, and supporting the local digital library collections. The DLPS Interface and User Testing Specialist is primarily responsible for design and assessment of access mechanisms (e.g. entry points, organization, effective displays) for a broad variety of DLPS systems. DLPS provides production-level support for digital library collections in a number of subject areas and formats. Online collection resources include significant image- and text-based journal collections, art image collections, and a leading edge XML/XSLT development effort. Staff members within DLPS assume responsibility for creating access mechanisms, data loading, security, accounting and billing mechanisms, as well as creation and conversion activities. DLPS provides these services to the University of Michigan as well as other institutions, and works with the Digital Library Federation (DLF) to advance the development of sound digital libraries. Among the areas supported are electronic journals; monograph and serial publications converted to page image format; art and other cultural heritage images, including objects from the Papyrology collection and Kelsey Museum of Archaeology; numeric; and a variety of published collections in XML and SGML. Further information may be found at or by contacting libhumres@umich.edu or (734)764-2546. Review of applications will begin 9/30/05 and continue until the position is filled. The University of Michigan is a non-discriminatory, affirmative action employer. Perry Willett Head, Digital Library Production Service 300 Hatcher North University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 Ph: 734-764-8074 Fax: 734-647-6897 Email: pwillett@umich.edu From WSullivan at cslib.org Tue Oct 4 10:47:26 2005 From: WSullivan at cslib.org (William Sullivan) Date: Tue Oct 4 10:48:39 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Position Opening - Library Specialist - Connecticut Digital Library Message-ID: Job Announcement Library Specialist - Connecticut Digital Library The Connecticut State Library, is recruiting for a full time Library Specialist/Electronic Resources Coordinator for the Connecticut Digital Library in Middletown, Connecticut. The Electronic Resources Coordinator will report to the Administrator of the Connecticut Digital Library and will manage and develop the electronic resources component of the Connecticut Digital Library (www.iCONN.org). iCONN provides all Connecticut students, faculty and residents with online access to essential library and information resources. It is administered by the Connecticut State Library in cooperation with the Department of Higher Education. Duties: Providing leadership and management of database content for iCONN by working with the Connecticut Digital Library Advisory Board Database Selection Committee and the library community to identify and recommend products for inclusion in iCONN; assisting in the procurement of licensed databases which will include the development of requests for proposals, and evaluation and acceptance; ensuring all authorized institutions and remote users have access to iCONN; collecting and reporting statistics; working as the liaison between database vendors and libraries; recommending training for library staff; providing training to libraries on system functions through on-site visits, users group meetings and e-mail tutorials; promoting awareness of iCONN in the library community; presenting and demonstrating iCONN at library meetings and conferences. Minimum Qualifications Required: Masters Degree in Library Science and three (3) years post-graduate professional employment in a library systems environment; considerable project management skills; ability to analyze and solve complex problems; considerable interpersonal skills; oral and written communication skills; ability to proficiently use desktop applications such as MS Word, Excel, Access, Publisher, Web browser and email. Special Requirement: Travel in/out of state required. Eligible candidates can send a State Application (http://www.das.state.ct.us/exam/AppForm.pdf ) and resume by Friday, October 28, 2005 to Teri Antonini, Human Resources Department, Connecticut State Library, 231 Capitol Avenue, Hartford, CT 06106. The annual starting salary is $61,646. Connecticut State Library is an Affirmative Action/Equal Employment Opportunity Employer. ____________________________________ William Sullivan, Administrator Connecticut Digital Library www.iconn.org Connecticut State Library www.cslib.org 786 South Main Street, Middletown, CT 06457 wsullivan@cslib.org tel: 860-344-2038 or 888-256-1222 (toll-free) From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Oct 4 11:05:04 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Tue Oct 4 11:05:04 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] European digitization program Message-ID: As you may recall, shortly after Google announced its plans for Google Print for Libraries, several European countries began discussing the idea of doing the same sort of thing for European resources. There are now some details available about the European project (called "i2010 Digital Libraries"). See Gary Price's Search Engine Watch blog entry for more info: http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/051003-192507 Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From whyzzi at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 11:27:12 2005 From: whyzzi at gmail.com (Whyzzi) Date: Tue Oct 4 11:27:14 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web survey software suggestions In-Reply-To: <20051003150152.R54885@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> References: <200510031440.j93EekZ19521@postoffice.providence.edu> <20051003150152.R54885@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> Message-ID: <3de381120510040827p679207acp@mail.gmail.com> Personally, I've been happy with: http://freshmeat.net/projects/phpesp/ Peter Verhagen Systems Administrator St. Albert Public Library On 03/10/05, John Creech wrote: > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Beatrice Pulliam wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Anyone have any experience with PHP based survey software like Chumpsoft or > > others? We're looking for software we can install and control on our > > servers. Please feel free to respond to me offlist with any suggestions. > > Thanks. > > > > Beatrice Pulliam > > Beatrice, we've been happy with phpSurveyor, at: > > http://phpsurveyor.sourceforge.net/index.php > > John Creech, Systems Librarian > Brooks Library, Central Washington University > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- I know too much and yet not enough From Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca Tue Oct 4 12:31:02 2005 From: Peter.Binkley at ualberta.ca (Binkley, Peter) Date: Tue Oct 4 12:31:11 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Hackfest projects needed Message-ID: <908893006339C0409519E4065DF3B24901570D41@mailserver.ualibrary.ualberta.ca> Hackfest 2005, associated with the Access conference (Edmonton, Alberta, Oct. 17) needs projects! A roomful of library geeks stand ready to realize your dream application! (Or at least come as close to it as possible in a day's work). Please submit a brief description of your idea here: http://access2005.library.ualberta.ca/hackfest/ Hackfest is a "collaborative effort to solve real world library problems using freely available tools". Projects can be large or small, easy or difficult. Results are not in any way guaranteed, but are likely to range from clever-but-unfinished to surprisingly-useful to no-one-chose-this-project. More information about Hackfest 2005: http://access2005.library.ualberta.ca/hackfest.php Results from previous hackfests: Hackfest 2002: http://www.access.uwindsor.ca/units/access/main.nsf/hackfest-results!Ope nForm Hackfest 2003: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/~dlc33/talks/20031003-access/20031004-access. html Hackfest 2004: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/~dlc33/talks/20041016-access-hackfest/ (Please excuse the cross-posting.) Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca From Michael.Yunkin at ccmail.nevada.edu Tue Oct 4 12:58:05 2005 From: Michael.Yunkin at ccmail.nevada.edu (Michael.Yunkin@ccmail.nevada.edu) Date: Tue Oct 4 12:58:13 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Flash Communication Server Message-ID: Is anyone out there using the Flash Communication Server for streaming audio or video? I'm particularly interested in CONTENTdm implementation, but would like to hear from anyone with experience using this. Do you like it or dislike it? Why or why not? How does it compare technically (setup, documentation, support, etc.) to other streaming servers? Please reply off-list. Thank you, Michael Yunkin Web Content/Metadata Manager UNV Libraries Las Vegas, NV From EKINNE at state.wy.us Tue Oct 4 17:55:58 2005 From: EKINNE at state.wy.us (Erin Kinney) Date: Tue Oct 4 17:56:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 2005 WLA/MPLA Conference Webcast & Blog Message-ID: The Wyoming Library Association (WLA) and the Mountain Plains Library Association (MPLA) are proud to announce that we will be webcasting our joint conference next week, October 12 - 14, 2005. This is the first time a WLA or MPLA conference will be webcast. The Teton County Library (WY) received a grant to purchase the equipment to do this. The site they have set up to stream video from the conference site is up and ready to go. You can access it at http://www.tclib.org/mpla/ There are instructions for how to get your computer set up to view the webcast, a listing of programs, etc. Conference programs will be available online in real time, as well as being available for viewing 30 days after the conference. Also, MPLA is archiving handouts and presentation materials for the conference at http://www.usd.edu/mpla/documents/handouts/2005/index.html - for those who are viewing the webcast, handouts are also available. We will also have a blog at http://mplawla2005.blogspot.com/ and plan on doing local color and programs of interest to our bloogers. Speakers of interest to Web4Lib are keynote speaker Roy Tennant, SirsDynix's Stephen Abram and Jim Wilson. For more information on the conference, see the conference website at http://wyla.org/2005conference/ Erin Kinney WLA Vice President & WLA/MPLA Joint Conference Co-Chair _________________________ Erin Kinney Digital Initiatives Librarian Wyoming State Library 2301 Capitol Avenue Cheyenne, WY 82002-0060 Email: ekinne@state.wy.us Phone: (307) 777-6332 Fax: (307) 777-5920 _________________________ From andersoj at oclc.org Tue Oct 4 18:57:36 2005 From: andersoj at oclc.org (Anderson,Joe) Date: Tue Oct 4 18:57:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Archive of WebJunction Social Software for Libraries presentation Message-ID: <811A02A11096B343880D2EEF72C4C83201DCA7AE@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Several people on this list asked to be notified when the archive recording of WebJunction's September 28 presentation "Making Sense of Social Software in the Library" with Aaron Schmidt, Andrea Mercado, and Regan Robinson. You can find the recording at http://webjunction.org/do/DisplayContent?id=11519 Thanks, Joe Anderson Editor, WebJunction.org (206)351-5607 1100 Dexter Ave. N Seattle, WA 98109 From bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu Wed Oct 5 11:00:17 2005 From: bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu (bpulliam@postoffice.providence.edu) Date: Wed Oct 5 11:04:22 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Register Now For NEASIST Buy, Hack or Build: Optimizing your Systems for Your Users and Your Sanity (November 15) Message-ID: <200510051500.j95F0HZ06535@postoffice.providence.edu> APOLOGIES FOR CROSS-POSTINGS... REGISTER NOW for another timely New England Chapter of ASIST (NEASIST)program http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20051115.html Buy, Hack, or Build: Optimizing your Systems for Your Users and Your Sanity Tuesday, 15 November 2005, 9:45am-4pm (registration/breakfast 8:30-9:45am) E15-070 (Bartos Theater) MIT, Cambridge, MA In a world where a limited amount of "out of the box" information systems are used to meet millions of unique information scenarios, some people have learned how to customize their systems to meet their individual needs. OPACs, search engines, and many other information systems have been altered to behave and function in ways specific to supporting the needs of individuals and institutions. The New England chapter of the American Society for Information Science and Technology is pleased to bring three creative problem solvers to Cambridge in November to show you how existing systems can work better – legally, efficiently, and brilliantly. Speakers: - Joshua Porter Director of Web Development, User Interface Engineering (Middleton, MA) Contributor, Brain Sparks (http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/) and Bokardo (http://bokardo.com/) blogs Topic: "Web 2.0 for the Rest of Us" - Matt Eichner, Director of Strategic Business Development, Endeca Solutions (Cambridge, MA) Topic: "Findability and the power of hierarchical facets" - Casey Bisson, E-Learning Application Developer, Lamson Library, Plymouth State University (Plymouth, NH) Author, MaisonBisson blog (http://www.maisonbisson.com/blog/) Topic: "OPAC Hacks" The day will conclude with a panel discussion with the speakers. $60 ASIST Members - $80 Non-Members - $40 Student/Retiree/Between Jobs (Continental Breakfast and Lunch and refreshments included) Register via Program Web site: http://neasist.org/pc/programs/20051115.html Questions about Registration?:(caryn.anderson@simmons.edu) Questions about the Program?: (bpulliam at providence.edu) Cheers! -- Beatrice R. Pulliam ASIST, New England Chapter Program Chair & Chair Elect (http://neasist.org} --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Wed Oct 5 14:14:30 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed Oct 5 14:14:54 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Open Content Alliance announced In-Reply-To: <3E074641-7C10-4310-864F-F3DBEA65E485@ucop.edu> References: <3E074641-7C10-4310-864F-F3DBEA65E485@ucop.edu> Message-ID: <43441806.7020801@kcoyle.net> I look at this and I begin to wonder what it means to "provide digital versions of books, etc." Google seems to have set themselves a very well-defined scope of indexing and displaying "snippets." This means they don't have to worry about providing a book-like experience or to provide for downloading, format shifting, and a whole host of other things. This project appears to attempt to replicate the library collection in digital form, which is a much larger task, and one with additional technical and user service challenges. I also wish that Brewster hadn't said: "... by the time my kid goes to college, we could have a library system that is just astonishing." GONG! Brewster, we HAVE a library system that is just astonishing. I really want to insert the word digital in there, revisionistically. kc Roy Tennant wrote: > "The Open Content Alliance, a project that Yahoo is backing with > several other partners, plans to provide digital versions of books, > academic papers, video and audio. Much of the material will consist > of copyrighted material voluntarily submitted by publishers and > authors, said David Mandelbrot, Yahoo's vice president of search > content. > > Other participants in the alliance announced Monday include Adobe > Systems Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co., the Internet Archive, O'Reilly > Media Inc., the University of California and the University of Toronto." > > More at: > > NYTimes article: Online-Book-Project.html> > Project Web Site: > UC Press Release: > > Roy Tennant > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From beden at ccmail.nevada.edu Wed Oct 5 14:49:59 2005 From: beden at ccmail.nevada.edu (beden@ccmail.nevada.edu) Date: Wed Oct 5 14:47:06 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Call for speakers: ALCTS Scholarly Communication DG Message-ID: The ALCTS Scholarly Communication Discussion Group is calling for speakers for its meeting at the ALA Midwinter meeting, San Antonio, on Monday Jan. 23, 2006, from 1:30-3:30 pm. We are looking for speakers who are willing to share successful and unsuccessful strategies and campus activities related to scholarly communication. Additional time will be allowed for questions and answers. Please respond to Brad Eden, brad.eden@unlv.edu, by November 7, 2005. Thanks. Brad Eden, Ph.D. Chair, ALCTS Scholarly Communications Head, Web and Digitization Services University of Nevada, Las Vegas Libraries brad.eden@unlv.edu Andrea Imre Vice-Chair, ALCTS Scholarly Communications Electronic Resources Librarian Southern Illinois University Carbondale aimre@lib.siu.edu From pbarnett at jsu.edu Wed Oct 5 17:09:00 2005 From: pbarnett at jsu.edu (Paula Barnett-Ellis) Date: Wed Oct 5 17:09:20 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) Message-ID: <434440EC.8080805@jsu.edu> set web4lib mail -- Paula Barnett-Ellis, MLIS Health/Sciences Librarian, Assistant Professor Houston Cole Library, 700 Pelham Road, North Jacksonville State University, Jacksonville, AL 36265 mailto:pbarnett@jsu.edu phone: 256-782-5249 fax: 256-782-5872 From Spatalita at acpl.lib.in.us Thu Oct 6 10:46:37 2005 From: Spatalita at acpl.lib.in.us (Sara Patalita) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:47:10 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] bulk / mass email product recommendations requested Message-ID: Apologies for cross-posting (PUBLIB and Web4Lib)... I have been tasked with choosing a product to handle bulk email for one of our department's newsletters. We tested one product but didn't have good luck with their support. I will be doing some research, but I was hoping for some recommendations from libraryland to help me get started. So, please send your testimonials my way. I will summarize for the list(s) if there is interest. Thank you in advance for your help, Sara Patalita IT Services librarian Allen County Public Library Fort Wayne, IN spatalita@acpl.info *as per library policy: The views, opinions, & judgements expressed in this message are solely those of the author. The message contents have not been reviewed or approved by the Allen County Public Library. From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Thu Oct 6 11:05:22 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:06:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] bulk / mass email product recommendations requested In-Reply-To: (Spatalita@acpl.lib.in.us) References: Message-ID: <20051006150522.9379B43F67@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:46:37 -0500 > From: "Sara Patalita" > > I have been tasked with choosing a product to handle bulk email for > one of our department's newsletters. We tested one product but > didn't have good luck with their support. I will be doing some > research, but I was hoping for some recommendations from libraryland > to help me get started. So, please send your testimonials my way. > I will summarize for the list(s) if there is interest. At Index Data, we use MailMan http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/ With this, we run quite a lot of lists -- probably about forty, some of them with reasonably high volume. We find it a pleasure to use, as it has a nice, and well-documented web-based admin interface. Oh, and it's free. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "The idea that people know what they want is wrong. They need to be pulled through the Web" -- Laura Jennings, Vice President, Microsoft Network. From john at mylibrarian.com Thu Oct 6 12:34:29 2005 From: john at mylibrarian.com (John Iliff) Date: Thu Oct 6 12:34:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Request for Comments on RSS Tutorial In-Reply-To: <20051006160005.A8C08189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> References: <20051006160005.A8C08189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> Message-ID: <43455215.5090006@mylibrarian.com> Here at PALINET we are experimenting with using Flash for providing instruction as well as developing training in using RSS and other Internet feed technology. We would very much appreciate the input of the web4lib community on this pilot offering (linked below). All comments are appreciated, and our skin is not thin, so have at it (but to keep traffic here low, please send comments directly to me and I will summarize). See: http://www.palinet.org/rss/toti/tsstutorial.htm Thanks- John Iliff in Philadelphia (where they invented the U.S.A.) -- John Iliff iliff@palinet.org john@mylibrarian.com 215.382.7031 x1222 http://www.palinet.org http://www.mylibrarian.com From gagnew at rci.rutgers.edu Thu Oct 6 13:02:22 2005 From: gagnew at rci.rutgers.edu (Grace J. Agnew) Date: Thu Oct 6 13:02:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Request for Comments on RSS Tutorial In-Reply-To: <43455215.5090006@mylibrarian.com> References: <20051006160005.A8C08189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> <43455215.5090006@mylibrarian.com> Message-ID: <4345589E.9050509@rci.rutgers.edu> John, The tutorial is great--very clean, smooth and presenting information from the point of view of users with a range of information literacy skills. The quiz needs a bit of work. The last question said that it was multiple choice, but didn't let me select multiple choices. "Review the quiz" also didn't move past the first question. I also just think the quiz needs to focus on user POV--questions like "you can use an RSS feed to do X ... (T/F)" rather than "test your memory" questions. I find frequently with tutorials, the tutorial itself is really user-focused, but the interactive quiz section falls back on simple recall testing rather than being used to reinforce how the information skill or technology would benefit the user's workflow. Your quiz is a mix of both, but really it should focus on reinforcing how the user will make use of RSS, particularly since it is the only interactive piece (other than paging through the components) and thus your only chance to reinforce the lesson through user learning by engagement. Anyway, great job, right up until the quiz! Grace Agnew Rutgers University Libraries John Iliff wrote: > Here at PALINET we are experimenting with using Flash for providing > instruction as well as developing training in using RSS and other > Internet feed technology. We would very much appreciate the input of > the web4lib community on this pilot offering (linked below). All > comments are appreciated, and our skin is not thin, so have at it (but > to keep traffic here low, please send comments directly to me and I > will summarize). > > See: http://www.palinet.org/rss/toti/tsstutorial.htm > > Thanks- John Iliff in Philadelphia (where they invented the U.S.A.) > -- ____________________________________________________________ Grace Agnew Associate University Librarian for Digital Library Systems Rutgers University Libraries 47 Davidson Road Piscataway, NJ 08854 732/445-5908 gagnew@rci.rutgers.edu /Better research, better papers, better grades! Try Searchpath , our new online information literacy tutorial./ http://searchpath.libraries.rutgers.edu From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Thu Oct 6 13:58:40 2005 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Thu Oct 6 13:59:00 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Zyon i-Pen Message-ID: Has anybody used the Zyon i-Pen to enhance their presentations or lectures? We have gathered information from their site, but I could not find much in the way of opinions or reviews. FYI - it is a pen-like mouse devise which includes software that enables you to handwrite on top of software. Purposes of this are to highlight presentation, draw figures, etc. It's not very expensive, considering alternatives, but we need to have at least tried to find feedback from users. More info is at http://www.zyonshop.com/product/ipen.htm, if you're interested. Thanks. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-8946 http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ From ryaneby at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:41:08 2005 From: ryaneby at gmail.com (Ryan Eby) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:41:16 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] bulk / mass email product recommendations requested In-Reply-To: <20051006150522.9379B43F67@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051006150522.9379B43F67@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I second mailman though it may be overkill for just sending a newsletter. If your trying to send a email to a list of people then it's fairly simple to write a script to go through a list of email addresses and send it out. If you want more advanced feature like allowing people to subscribe/unsubscribe there are various scripts out there that will do that as well. Don't have any recommendations though. If you don't want to host it yourself I've heard good reviews of CampaignManager. It a pay per email thing though but not too pricey depending on what you've been looking at. http://www.campaignmonitor.com/ Ryan Eby On 10/6/05, Mike Taylor wrote: > > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:46:37 -0500 > > From: "Sara Patalita" > > > > I have been tasked with choosing a product to handle bulk email for > > one of our department's newsletters. We tested one product but > > didn't have good luck with their support. I will be doing some > > research, but I was hoping for some recommendations from libraryland > > to help me get started. So, please send your testimonials my way. > > I will summarize for the list(s) if there is interest. > > At Index Data, we use MailMan > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/ > > With this, we run quite a lot of lists -- probably about forty, some > of them with reasonably high volume. We find it a pleasure to use, as > it has a nice, and well-documented web-based admin interface. > > Oh, and it's free. > From bennetttm at appstate.edu Thu Oct 6 16:42:04 2005 From: bennetttm at appstate.edu (Thomas Bennett) Date: Thu Oct 6 16:56:29 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Request for Comments on RSS Tutorial In-Reply-To: <43455215.5090006@mylibrarian.com> References: <20051006160005.A8C08189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> <43455215.5090006@mylibrarian.com> Message-ID: <200510062042.04550.bennetttm@appstate.edu> Very nice tutorial. Now that Opera is ad free and has builtin features for RSS feeds you may want to mention it. If you are on a page with an RSS feed you can click on a blue RSS icon in the address bar and choose which feed you want if a page has multiple feeds. Next, choose Feeds from the menu bar to read or manage feeds. Thomas On Thursday 06 October 2005 16:34, John Iliff wrote: > Here at PALINET we are experimenting with using Flash for providing > instruction as well as developing training in using RSS and other > Internet feed technology. We would very much appreciate the input of the > web4lib community on this pilot offering (linked below). All comments > are appreciated, and our skin is not thin, so have at it (but to keep > traffic here low, please send comments directly to me and I will > summarize). > > See: http://www.palinet.org/rss/toti/tsstutorial.htm > > Thanks- John Iliff in Philadelphia (where they invented the U.S.A.) -- ==================================================================== Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University Computer Consultant III P O Box University Library Boone, North Carolina 28608 Please use the Systems Help Desk at http://linux.library.appstate.edu/help All in Systems receive an email with each submission. ==================================================================== From ilinskaya at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 16:58:00 2005 From: ilinskaya at gmail.com (Inna Ilinskaya) Date: Thu Oct 6 16:58:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Usability Studies Survey Message-ID: <3685ebfa0510061358k174df21ei3e15350d732c7e87@mail.gmail.com> Oh no, not another survey! We know you are saying this to yourself. However, we hope you will reconsider and take our 16 question survey on usability studies of libraries' web sites. Not only will it help us, you will feel good doing something for fellow librarians! The survey is here: http://www.questionpro.com/akira/TakeSurvey?id=292701 So if have been involved in one of the usability studies of the library's web site or if you know of a study conducted at your library please fill out the survey. Thank you so much! Sarah Hammill and Inna Ilinskaya Florida International University Libraries e-mail: hammills@fiu.edu e-mail: ilinskay@fiu.edu ------ Inna Ilinskaya Electronic Information Services Librarian Green Library -- GL 232B Florida International University 11200 SW 8th St Miami, FL 33199 Tel.: (305) 348-2415 Fax: (305) 348-6579 E-mail: ilinskay@fiu.edu From bennetttm at appstate.edu Thu Oct 6 16:57:22 2005 From: bennetttm at appstate.edu (Thomas Bennett) Date: Thu Oct 6 17:06:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] bulk / mass email product recommendations requested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200510062057.22554.bennetttm@appstate.edu> If you are interested in a desktop email list sender, Our financial agent here is using a product she downloaded off the WEB to send out our gun club newsletters. It works like a mail merge in that you can have the greeting personalized for each recipient. She won't be back from the Georgia State IDPA Match until Monday so I'll send the name of the program then. In the mean time I found emailsender. From their site: Powerful direct sending ability. Sends without SMTP server, bypasses your ISP's mail server, automatically looks up recipient's e-mail exchange server and sends e-mail directly to recipients. Choose from the five designer templates to add beauty to your e-mail. Very fast e-mail sender application based upon multi-threaded delivery. The normal sending speed can go up to 50,000 e-mails per hour. Very easy to send e-mail to lots of recipients. Supports attachment of any format. Supports multi-attachments. Both text and html formats are supported. Professional user interface, very easy to use, can be set up in few minutes. http://www.emailsmartz.com/asp/sender.asp 49.95 which is the half off price until October 10. Don't personally know anything about this program. Thomas On Thursday 06 October 2005 14:46, Sara Patalita wrote: > Apologies for cross-posting (PUBLIB and Web4Lib)... > > I have been tasked with choosing a product to handle bulk email for one > of our department's newsletters. We tested one product but didn't have > good luck with their support. I will be doing some research, but I was > hoping for some recommendations from libraryland to help me get started. > So, please send your testimonials my way. I will summarize for the > list(s) if there is interest. > > Thank you in advance for your help, > > Sara Patalita > IT Services librarian > Allen County Public Library > Fort Wayne, IN > spatalita@acpl.info > > *as per library policy: The views, opinions, & judgements expressed in > this message are solely those of the author. > The message contents have not been reviewed or approved by the Allen > County Public Library. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- ==================================================================== Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University Computer Consultant III P O Box University Library Boone, North Carolina 28608 Please use the Systems Help Desk at http://linux.library.appstate.edu/help All in Systems receive an email with each submission. ==================================================================== From bennetttm at appstate.edu Thu Oct 6 17:09:29 2005 From: bennetttm at appstate.edu (Thomas Bennett) Date: Thu Oct 6 17:20:18 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200510062109.29827.bennetttm@appstate.edu> Personally I don't think the OS will allow two keyboards and two mice to operate "simultaneously". Even with VNC two mouse users fight for control of the cursor if two mice are used at the same time. By the way, Ultra VNC has encryption built in now for the secure concious. You don't have to tunnel. Thomas On Friday 30 September 2005 17:54, Robertson, James wrote: > Web4Lib-ers, > > Anyone know if there is a hardware or software solution that > allows two keyboards and mouses to work on the same PC at the same time? > > The fantasy in mind is a group of 5 students working on a > project gathered around one PC: two students working on a Word doc in > one corner of the screen (one dictating, one typing), two students > coding up some C++ in another corner of the screen (one consulting a > manual, one typing), and one student getting the lattes. :-) > > --Jim > > Jim Robertson > Assistant University Librarian > NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology) > 323 King Blvd., Newark, NJ 07102-1982 > 973-596-5798 -- james.c.robertson@njit.edu -- www.library.njit.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- ==================================================================== Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University Computer Consultant III P O Box University Library Boone, North Carolina 28608 Please use the Systems Help Desk at http://linux.library.appstate.edu/help All in Systems receive an email with each submission. ==================================================================== From skosecki at nal.usda.gov Thu Oct 6 17:34:43 2005 From: skosecki at nal.usda.gov (Stan Kosecki) Date: Thu Oct 6 17:34:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] two keyboards and two mouse on on PC Message-ID: Jim: You certainly can have a dual setting under XP. However, you need to use USB devices. On more than one occasion, I use two pointing devices. One USB mouse is so different, that for benefits of my colleagues I need to attach another USB mouse with more standard functionality. Same with keyboards. I have one that is ergonomic via PS2. Second keyboard is wireless (with build in touch pad--a third mouse for you) via USB. Stan On Friday 30 September 2005 17:54, Robertson, James wrote: > Web4Lib-ers, > > Anyone know if there is a hardware or software solution that allows > two keyboards and mouses to work on the same PC at the same time? > > The fantasy in mind is a group of 5 students working on a project > gathered around one PC: two students working on a Word doc in one > corner of the screen (one dictating, one typing), two students coding > up some C++ in another corner of the screen (one consulting a manual, > one typing), and one student getting the lattes. :-) > > --Jim > > Jim Robertson > Assistant University Librarian > NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology) > 323 King Blvd., Newark, NJ 07102-1982 > 973-596-5798 -- james.c.robertson@njit.edu -- www.library.njit.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- ==================================================================== Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University Computer Consultant III P O Box University Library Boone, North Carolina 28608 Please use the Systems Help Desk at http://linux.library.appstate.edu/help All in Systems receive an email with each submission. ==================================================================== _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From lbell927 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 7 00:31:02 2005 From: lbell927 at yahoo.com (Lori Bell) Date: Fri Oct 7 00:31:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Why Libraries Matter: A Story Long OverDue - new web-based animated ebook for libraries Message-ID: <20051007043102.69990.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> The Alliance Library System, www.LibrariesMatter.com, and TumbleBooks Inc are pleased to announce the launch of a new animated online book entitled "Why Libraries Matter: A Story Long Overdue." The book, in both online and downloadable format, is available free to all public libraries and elementary schools in North America for use on their websites. "Why Libraries Matter: A Story Long Overdue" is the charming tale, told in rhyming verse, of a young girl who shows her family and neighbors how important the library is to them and their community. The link below is an example of what the icon will look like on your website. It will also give you the opportunity to view, download, and e-mail the book for yourself. http://www.librariesmatter.com/books/index.cfm The project is the latest in a series of initiatives from the Alliance Library System who, last year, introduced the Libraries Matter campaign (ww.LibrariesMatter.com ) to public libraries across the world. "We wanted to raise awareness," says Kitty Pope, Executive Director of Alliance, "and thought, what better way than to produce a book about 'Why Libraries Matter'? One of Alliance's main goals is to develop webcontent for our members." So Ms. Pope amd her team contacted TumbleBooks Inc., a company which specializes in creating animated, taking picture books for their online collection, TumbleBookLibrary, which is used by over 2000 public libraries and elementary schools across the world. "We're a TumbleBookLibrary subscriber," explains Pope, "and we just love TumbleBooks. We thought it would be a perfect way to publish and distribute the book." The result is an animated, talking picture book which can be viewed online, downloaded, and even e-mailed to friends and family. Alliance and TumbleBooks are providing the book for free to public libraries and elementary schools. It is the first in a series of awareness and fundraising projects Alliance and TumbleBooks will be collaborating on. To receive "Why Libraries Matter: A Story Long Overdue" for your website, or for more information about the book and campaign, contact: Ron Zevy President TumbleBooks Inc (416) 781-4010 rz@tumblebooks.com or Sandy Albrow Webmaster Alliance Library System (309) 694-9230 salbrow@alliancelibrarysystem.com __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From michele.haytko at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 10:34:37 2005 From: michele.haytko at gmail.com (Michele Haytko) Date: Fri Oct 7 10:34:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Computer Lab Upgrades Message-ID: <15e475fa0510070734v30d8f4c0r@mail.gmail.com> Greetings all! I apologize for the cross-posting to post PUBLIB and WEB4LIB, but I wanted a range of responses. Our Electronic Resources Lab/Computer Lab has 16 workstations (in addition to 4 we keep upstairs in the Children's Department, bringing our total to 20 stations). Our lab is 3 years old and the furniture (desk and chairs) is not holding up well at all. The desks are plastic and falling apart and the chairs are cloth- I wont disgust you with the grimy details. We would like to upgrade every workstation and found a desk and chair that we love. For 16, the cost is about $3200 and for 20, we'd put out about $4000. So now it's up to us to sell this to our cash-strapped administration. I would very much appreciate any answers you have to the below questions. 1. How many workstations do you have? 2. Do you remember the approximate cost per workstation (or as a whole)? 3. Do all your workstations match? Why or why not? 4. Do you think upgrading one at a time is a bad idea? Why or why not? 5. Is $4000 for 20 workstations (desk and chair per station) an average price? Below average? Above average? Again, I am grateful for your insights. Many thanks, Michele -- **************)0(************** Mrs. C. Michele Haytko, AERL Montgomery County- Norristown Public Library MC-NPL Computer Lab 1001 Powell Street Norristown, PA 19401 610-278-5100 Ext. 141 "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi From John.Creech at cwu.EDU Fri Oct 7 12:18:59 2005 From: John.Creech at cwu.EDU (John Creech) Date: Fri Oct 7 12:19:18 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Vonnegut, on politics, presidents and librarians In-Reply-To: <15e475fa0510070734v30d8f4c0r@mail.gmail.com> References: <15e475fa0510070734v30d8f4c0r@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051007090709.X24524@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> This morning's yahoo news has a link to an article on Vonnegut under the "Most Popular" section. Title of article = subject line above. Enjoy. John Creech, Systems Librarian Brooks Library, Central Washington University From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Oct 7 13:40:27 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Fri Oct 7 13:39:37 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] AOL Will Buy Weblogs - New York Times Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C514160F1@SYSTEM14> I posted this on my blog which is not located on the Weblogs service despite what Bloomberg reports: [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/07/technology/07blog.html?ex=1286337600& en=d7070d71fb9d064a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss] This very short article from Bloomberg is important but also very irritating. It implies that the Weblogs service serves as the host for all blogs! That is very much incorrect. AOL Will Buy Weblogs - New York Times : "AOL Will Buy Weblogs By BLOOMBERG NEWS Published: October 7, 2005 The America Online unit of Time Warner agreed yesterday to buy Weblogs, the owner of 85 Web sites that serve as hosts to the popular online diaries called blogs." -- Posted by Bill Drew to Baby Boomer Librarian at 10/07/2005 01:31:24 PM From dmcmorris at sals.edu Fri Oct 7 15:24:10 2005 From: dmcmorris at sals.edu (McMorris,Don) Date: Fri Oct 7 15:24:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] {pr02} OSS modules for SIP Authentication Message-ID: <6820518B-EDF6-4DA2-9D62-CB4EE5E1BC8B@mimectl> Please excuse cross posting. When replying, please be sure to include "{pr02}" in the subject line. This puts all these messages in a nice little folder on my mail server. I was just asked recently about researching a computer management system that would authenticate to our ILS via SIP. I am in the middle of constructing a "should have this..." document as a base for contacting commercial vendors, but as a personal project, I want to use OSS to develop a solution. I was planning on developing an ISM build for our local library using a local database. Now that this question has arisen, I am investigating SIP authentication using the ISM. I have contacted the ISM developers (GRPL), but they have not done it and did not have a suggestion off the top of their heads. They said a CPAN module was not found after a brief search. So, does anybody know of SIP-querying scripts or middleware-software (*nix) that I might be able to pretty easily integrate into ISM? Any and all suggestions on how to communicate with SIP from Unix/Linux welcome, as it is a new subject that I plan to master. Thanks. --Don ------------------------ "Proudly serving the 964 residents of the Village of Salem, NY" Donald J McMorris Jr. Assistant Librarian Bancroft Public Library 181 South Main St PO Box 515 Salem, NY 12865 Phone/Fax: (518) 854-7463 www.slibrary.org XIZ / SALS-SLM www.slibrary.org/staff/don.mcmorris/blog/ From john at mylibrarian.com Fri Oct 7 16:57:34 2005 From: john at mylibrarian.com (John Iliff) Date: Fri Oct 7 16:57:38 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] RSS Tutorial Redux In-Reply-To: <20051007160006.6A2A9189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> References: <20051007160006.6A2A9189AF7@lists.webjunction.org> Message-ID: <4346E13E.4040908@mylibrarian.com> Thanks to many for responses to our tutorial on RSS Feeds. We dropped the quiz, added more prominent buttons, and fiddled with the speed of the Flash movie. We also added mention of the RSS-oriented browsers Opera and Safari along with Firefox. In time we will more thoroughly discuss other aggregators as well as other methods of staying on top of information on the 'Net. Some asked what we used to develop the tutorial, and we used Captivate and FlashMX. One colleague tested all the buttons and found where we goofed on a few back buttons. The thoroughness award belongs there! We also resized the movie slightly for 800x600 monitors. Wonderful input from several dozen. One of the best things about being a librarian is working with such astute and generous colleagues. To all who responded, your time was appreciated. So, for now we have this thanks to so much great input. More to come later on the PALINET website: http://www.palinet.org/rss/toti/tsstutorial.htm (Apologies for any duplication). ----------------------------------------- John Iliff PALINET Library Technology Development Consultant iliff@palinet.org 800.233.3401 x 1222 215.382.7031 x 1222 Fax: 215.382.0022 3000 Market Street, Suite 200 Philadelphia, PA 19104-2801 From dorman at indexdata.com Fri Oct 7 17:17:34 2005 From: dorman at indexdata.com (David Dorman) Date: Fri Oct 7 17:18:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] {pr02} OSS modules for SIP Authentication In-Reply-To: <6820518B-EDF6-4DA2-9D62-CB4EE5E1BC8B@mimectl> References: <6820518B-EDF6-4DA2-9D62-CB4EE5E1BC8B@mimectl> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051007171406.0519bcc0@ddorman.mail.wesleyan.edu> Don, Is there a reason why you decided to use SIP rather than NCIP? The former is an old industry standard developed by 3M, while NCIP is a newer XML-based NISO standard that has an expanded set of protocols. David At 03:24 PM 10/07/2005, McMorris,Don wrote: >Please excuse cross posting. > >When replying, please be sure to include "{pr02}" in the subject >line. This puts all these messages in a nice little folder on my mail server. > >I was just asked recently about researching a computer management system >that would authenticate to our ILS via SIP. I am in the middle of >constructing a "should have this..." document as a base for contacting >commercial vendors, but as a personal project, I want to use OSS to >develop a solution. > >I was planning on developing an ISM build for our local library using a >local database. Now that this question has arisen, I am investigating SIP >authentication using the ISM. I have contacted the ISM developers (GRPL), >but they have not done it and did not have a suggestion off the top of >their heads. They said a CPAN module was not found after a brief search. > >So, does anybody know of SIP-querying scripts or middleware-software >(*nix) that I might be able to pretty easily integrate into ISM? > >Any and all suggestions on how to communicate with SIP from Unix/Linux >welcome, as it is a new subject that I plan to master. > >Thanks. > >--Don > >------------------------ >"Proudly serving the 964 residents of the Village of Salem, NY" > > >Donald J McMorris Jr. >Assistant Librarian >Bancroft Public Library >181 South Main St >PO Box 515 >Salem, NY 12865 >Phone/Fax: (518) 854-7463 >www.slibrary.org >XIZ / SALS-SLM > >www.slibrary.org/staff/don.mcmorris/blog/ >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ David Dorman US Marketing Manager, Index Data 52 Whitman Ave. West Hartford, Connecticut 06107 dorman@indexdata.com 860-389-1568 or toll free 866-489-1568 fax: 860-561-5613 or +45 3341 0101 INDEX DATA Means Business for Open Source and Open Standards - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - www.indexdata.com From arhyno at uwindsor.ca Sat Oct 8 00:09:29 2005 From: arhyno at uwindsor.ca (arhyno@uwindsor.ca) Date: Sat Oct 8 00:10:14 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] {pr02} OSS modules for SIP Authentication In-Reply-To: <6820518B-EDF6-4DA2-9D62-CB4EE5E1BC8B@mimectl> Message-ID: Hi Don, I have one example for SIP that can be found here: https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=46209&package_id=114242 under "sipTransform". I was totally dependent on this guide to figure out how to use SIP: http://www.aneg-dv.de/allegro/sip2/sip2_developers_guide.pdf SIP is called a protocol but it is really a description of a terminal session. For example, this kind of interaction: send carriage return wait for "login:" send a User ID wait for "Password:" is the kind of programming that SIP entails . My application required integration with Cocoon so there's a lot of SAX handling in the code, but almost anything that can script a telnet session could be used. NCIP and probably any other protocol created in the last decade would likely be far preferable to SIP, yet I know there's not always other options out there for authentication. art --- Art Rhyno Systems Librarian, University of Windsor http://librarycog.uwindsor.ca From bernies at uillinois.edu Sun Oct 9 23:15:42 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Sun Oct 9 23:16:18 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Teaching With Tech (US News & World Report Article) Message-ID: Thought many of you might be interested in this recent article... Podcasts, back channels, and bookless libraries come to campus. By Vicky Hallett, US News & World Report. (From the 10/17/05 print issue) http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/articles/051017/17elearn.htm From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Oct 10 13:03:26 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Oct 10 13:03:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat Message-ID: OCLC today released the ability for readers to write their own reviews for books in OpenWorldCat. See Lorcan's blog at . Readers can also upload tables of contents or add notes as well. These are all stored in a wiki system (WikiD) outside of the catalog itself. Roy From JBloy at edgewood.edu Mon Oct 10 13:08:21 2005 From: JBloy at edgewood.edu (Jonathan Bloy) Date: Mon Oct 10 13:08:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Full text for the life and environmental sciences Message-ID: Hi Folks, I've been looking for reasonably priced databases for a small liberal arts college that would provide good full text for the life and environmental sciences. So far, I've only found BioOne and EBSCOhost's Academic Search Premier (which is not inexpensive, but worked for our college overall). Can anyone recommend another database with full text scholarly articles in these areas? Thank you! --- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Oct 10 13:34:24 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Mon Oct 10 13:34:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434AA620.5080504@ohiolink.edu> Roy Tennant wrote: > OCLC today released the ability for readers to write their own reviews > for books in OpenWorldCat. See Lorcan's blog at orweblog.oclc.org/archives/000825.html>. Readers can also upload tables > of contents or add notes as well. These are all stored in a wiki system > (WikiD) outside of the catalog itself. > Roy Can I just say "woohoo" and add that I want links built into our catalog today, if not sooner? Maybe now we won't all have to reinvent this wheel. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu Mon Oct 10 14:02:28 2005 From: bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu (bpulliam@postoffice.providence.edu) Date: Mon Oct 10 14:02:34 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Results of php survey query Message-ID: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> Thanks to everyone who responded to query last week. The common responses were (phpESP) http://www.butterfat.net/wiki/Projects/phpESP/News and (phpsurveyor) http://phpsurveyor.sourceforge.net/index.php Thanks again. Beatrice ---- Beatrice R. Pulliam Reference Librarian and Assistant Professor Phillips Memorial Library Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918 401.865.2891 http://www.providence.edu/Academics/Phillips+Memorial+Library/ IM: pclibchat (AIM/iChat/Yahoo) --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From kgs at bluehighways.com Mon Oct 10 14:01:10 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Mon Oct 10 15:00:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051010180117.431C2570394@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > OCLC today released the ability for readers to write their own > reviews for books in OpenWorldCat. See Lorcan's blog at orweblog.oclc.org/archives/000825.html>. Readers can also upload > tables of contents or add notes as well. These are all stored in a > wiki system (WikiD) outside of the catalog itself. > Roy Usability observation re registration: I didn't think the page was too long, but I had no idea I existed in the system. It kept insisting "The E-mail Address you entered is unavailable. Please enter a different E-mail Address." It should tell me that the address is already registered. Once it dawned on me that mebbe somehow I already existed, it was easy to get a password reminder (actually a new password methinks). Second observation, re writing the review: "Composing or editing text within this form is not recognized as browser activity." A system would log me out while I'm exercising My Craft? After 15 minutes? Why? Third: if the review is going to be held (which is understandable, Amazon does that too; nobody wants to read spam or troll vomit), tell the review writer right there on the screen. I submitted the review... I clicked on reviews... it wasn't there...now it is... but most days Lorcan Dempsey can't sit there watching the reviews come in. ;-) Fourth/Fifth: would love the ability to see when other people comment on things I comment on, and have access to a list of things I've reviewed. Overall, very neato concept! Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From teetsm at oclc.org Mon Oct 10 16:09:50 2005 From: teetsm at oclc.org (Teets,Mike) Date: Mon Oct 10 16:09:56 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat Message-ID: <35A72025A61EE3488E4CF824C717F70E03720925@OAEXCH1SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Quick note about registration: User registration on all OCLC services is shared. If you personally register for WebJunction, OCLC Resource sharing, OpenURL registry, or the Online Service Center, your account is available on all services. Email address is the unique key. Good comment on the message though. Also, keep the comments coming on desired next steps! Mike Teets, OCLC -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:01 PM To: web4lib Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat > OCLC today released the ability for readers to write their own > reviews for books in OpenWorldCat. See Lorcan's blog at orweblog.oclc.org/archives/000825.html>. Readers can also upload > tables of contents or add notes as well. These are all stored in a > wiki system (WikiD) outside of the catalog itself. > Roy Usability observation re registration: I didn't think the page was too long, but I had no idea I existed in the system. It kept insisting "The E-mail Address you entered is unavailable. Please enter a different E-mail Address." It should tell me that the address is already registered. Once it dawned on me that mebbe somehow I already existed, it was easy to get a password reminder (actually a new password methinks). Second observation, re writing the review: "Composing or editing text within this form is not recognized as browser activity." A system would log me out while I'm exercising My Craft? After 15 minutes? Why? Third: if the review is going to be held (which is understandable, Amazon does that too; nobody wants to read spam or troll vomit), tell the review writer right there on the screen. I submitted the review... I clicked on reviews... it wasn't there...now it is... but most days Lorcan Dempsey can't sit there watching the reviews come in. ;-) Fourth/Fifth: would love the ability to see when other people comment on things I comment on, and have access to a list of things I've reviewed. Overall, very neato concept! Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From lars at aronsson.se Tue Oct 11 00:04:58 2005 From: lars at aronsson.se (Lars Aronsson) Date: Tue Oct 11 00:05:16 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat In-Reply-To: <434AA620.5080504@ohiolink.edu> References: <434AA620.5080504@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: Thomas Dowling wrote: > Can I just say "woohoo" and add that I want links built into our > catalog today, if not sooner? Maybe now we won't all have to > reinvent this wheel. The big question is: Who will own the data? Can OCLC print and sell the reviews I write? Can another (non-OCLC) library copy the reviews into their catalog, or will OCLC sue them for copyright infringement? Can they even copy the links to reviews into their catalog (as Thomas wishes, above), or will OCLC claim "database rights" to the collection and require a license fee for this? Questions such as these make some prefer Wikipedia over IMDb. Why should we write for OCLC, when we can write for everybody? Wikipedia's contents are available to all under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), not only to paying OCLC customers. The following is OCLC's contract with users who sign up for the review function. It is very clear that the "User may not resell", but it doesn't say if OCLC may resell texts created by the User: WorldCat? records, metadata and holdings information ("Data") may only be used by Users (defined as individuals accessing WorldCat via OCLC partner Web interfaces) solely for the personal, non-commercial purpose of assisting such Users with locating an item in a library of the User's choosing. Users acquire no ownership rights to any Data or portions thereof provided in any form by WorldCat. No part of any Data provided in any form by WorldCat may be used, disclosed, reproduced, transferred or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of OCLC except as expressly permitted hereunder. Use of WorldCat for cataloging purposes is expressly prohibited. User may not resell or otherwise transfer Data or any application which facilitates access to or the searching retrieval and/or browsing of Data. User shall not omit or obscure any notice of a limitation of warranty, disclaimer, copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, usage limitation or any logo, splash screen or any other terms and/or conditions intended to be displayed in WorldCat by OCLC or any supplier thereto. OCLC and WorldCat are registered trademarks of OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc. The above text is also found on http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/policies/terms/ The privacy policy http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/policies/privacy/ has a section about "our use of your information", but doesn't touch on reviews submitted by users. -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se From weblibrarian at sent.com Tue Oct 11 00:11:55 2005 From: weblibrarian at sent.com (Heather Ebey) Date: Tue Oct 11 00:12:01 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: Hello all, I am writing an article about the use of social software in libraries. Though I have done research, I need a few quotations from librarians or information professionals who have implemented or are planning to implement some social software application as part of their library's Web presence. If you are willing to be quoted in the article, which I am writing for the SJSU SLIS LISSTEN "The Call Number" , please let me know. My deadline is this Thursday morning, 10/13. I am particularly interested in answers to the following questions (one or all). If I am not asking the right questions, please feel free to let me know. 1. Do you see an increase in the use of social software in libraries? If so, why do you think this is so? If not, do you think that it is just a fad, or that librarians have not grasped its potential? 2. Which social software applications do you think are the most important to libraries? Does the kind of library--public, academic, special--matter? 3. Do you have a blog or wiki or both? What kinds of information do you post to which type of application? 4. How long have you made it available to your patrons? Do your patrons express anything positive or negative about it? 5. Do you think this is something that MLIS students should learn about? Thank you for your consideration. I apologize for posting this here if this is not the right place to ask these questions. Heather Ebey weblibrarian@sent.com, http://librarianway.com SJSU SLIS MLIS candidate (May 2006) From jdunck at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 00:32:00 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Tue Oct 11 00:32:04 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> On 10/10/05, Heather Ebey wrote: > 2. Which social software applications do you think are the most > important to libraries? Does the kind of library--public, academic, > special--matter? I'm not the right person to respond on this, but if you haven't seen Ning yet, check it out: http://www.ning.com/ It's a tool for non-geeks to roll their own social apps. From matthew.dovey at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 11 07:02:02 2005 From: matthew.dovey at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Matthew J. Dovey) Date: Tue Oct 11 07:02:31 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] {pr02} OSS modules for SIP Authentication Message-ID: <41AB0A86E101A34FA839E3C199628AC91C58D1@samantha.ceridwen.com> I have a java implementation of much of the SIP2 protocol available from here (http://www.ceridwen.com/si/download.html) The sample.java code illustrates a simple authentication. Drop me a note if you use this so I can keep you informed of updates. Matthew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of McMorris,Don > Sent: 07 October 2005 20:24 > To: oss4lib-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net; > web4lib@webjunction.org; techies@lists.incolsa.net > Subject: [Web4lib] {pr02} OSS modules for SIP Authentication > > Please excuse cross posting. > > When replying, please be sure to include "{pr02}" in the > subject line. This puts all these messages in a nice little > folder on my mail server. > > I was just asked recently about researching a computer > management system that would authenticate to our ILS via SIP. > I am in the middle of constructing a "should have this..." > document as a base for contacting commercial vendors, but as > a personal project, I want to use OSS to develop a solution. > > I was planning on developing an ISM build for our local > library using a local database. Now that this question has > arisen, I am investigating SIP authentication using the ISM. > I have contacted the ISM developers (GRPL), but they have not > done it and did not have a suggestion off the top of their > heads. They said a CPAN module was not found after a brief search. > > So, does anybody know of SIP-querying scripts or > middleware-software (*nix) that I might be able to pretty > easily integrate into ISM? > > Any and all suggestions on how to communicate with SIP from > Unix/Linux welcome, as it is a new subject that I plan to master. > > Thanks. > > --Don > > ------------------------ > "Proudly serving the 964 residents of the Village of Salem, NY" > > > Donald J McMorris Jr. > Assistant Librarian > Bancroft Public Library > 181 South Main St > PO Box 515 > Salem, NY 12865 > Phone/Fax: (518) 854-7463 > www.slibrary.org > XIZ / SALS-SLM > > www.slibrary.org/staff/don.mcmorris/blog/ > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Tue Oct 11 11:19:55 2005 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (Robin Boulton) Date: Tue Oct 11 11:19:24 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) Message-ID: (Apologies for cross-posting) - Hi All, We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint presentation to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get sick of looking at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight came the recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member to change the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be able to switch automatically from one piece of content to another, probably at pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to know what tools, hardware or software, might be available for such a purpose, and which are the best (or worst!). TIA for any suggestions or links. Robin Boulton Robin Boulton rboulton@linc.lib.il.us IT Manager (630) 584 0076 x 258 St. Charles Public Library District Cell: (630) 918 8738 St. Charles, IL 60174 http://www.stcharleslibrary.org/ From jrounds at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 11 11:40:44 2005 From: jrounds at uchicago.edu (Justin Rounds) Date: Tue Oct 11 11:40:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434BDCFC.5020504@uchicago.edu> When you say "connect to it remotely", do you mean that you have the LCD connected to a dedicated computer? If so, what platform (Mac, PC, Linux, etc.)? While I can certainly offer some suggestions in terms of software solutions, someone is still going to have to make the content. Possibly not full-time, but it depends... How much content? How often do you want to update it? _ j Robin Boulton wrote: > (Apologies for cross-posting) - > > Hi All, > > We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our > Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream > some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious > goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to > successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint presentation > to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get sick of looking > at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight came the > recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member to change > the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be able to switch > automatically from one piece of content to another, probably at > pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has > solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to know what tools, > hardware or software, might be available for such a purpose, and which > are the best (or worst!). > > TIA for any suggestions or links. > Robin Boulton > > > > > > Robin Boulton > > rboulton@linc.lib.il.us > > > IT Manager > > (630) 584 0076 x 258 > > > St. Charles Public Library District > > Cell: (630) 918 8738 > > > St. Charles, IL 60174 > > > > > > http://www.stcharleslibrary.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- ------------------------------------------- Justin Rounds Graphic Design and Digital Media Specialist Digital Library Development Center University of Chicago 1100 East 57th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 (773)702-4391 ------------------------------------------- From teetsm at oclc.org Tue Oct 11 12:32:32 2005 From: teetsm at oclc.org (Teets,Mike) Date: Tue Oct 11 12:33:00 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat Message-ID: <35A72025A61EE3488E4CF824C717F70E03720930@OAEXCH1SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Lars, OCLC is a not-for-profit membership cooperative whose services are funded by our membership. We provide open access to much of the content our members contribute and at the same time protect their investment in the infrastructure to insure it is available over the long term. Our models are therefore different than Wikipedia. We have provided you with the ability to include the review contributions inside your systems and we are investigating many options for local use of the toolset. We plan to continue to make the reviews freely available however non-members are limited in their ability to repurpose the content. You can link to reviews for specific records using our published syntax. See documentation at http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/isbnissnlinking/default.htm A few examples are: http://worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/isbn/0701176849&tab=reviews http://worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/isbn/9747551675&tab=reviews http://worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/isbn/1592280331&tab=reviews Several library systems are doing this on every record in their OPAC. If you do this, we would certainly like to hear from you! For direct communication with the product team on this feature, contact the product manager, Sharon Ramsay (email is ramsays at oclc dot org) Thanks for your thoughts on this service! Mike Teets -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Lars Aronsson Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:05 AM To: web4lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Reader review capability now available in OpenWorldCat Thomas Dowling wrote: > Can I just say "woohoo" and add that I want links built into our > catalog today, if not sooner? Maybe now we won't all have to > reinvent this wheel. The big question is: Who will own the data? Can OCLC print and sell the reviews I write? Can another (non-OCLC) library copy the reviews into their catalog, or will OCLC sue them for copyright infringement? Can they even copy the links to reviews into their catalog (as Thomas wishes, above), or will OCLC claim "database rights" to the collection and require a license fee for this? Questions such as these make some prefer Wikipedia over IMDb. Why should we write for OCLC, when we can write for everybody? Wikipedia's contents are available to all under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), not only to paying OCLC customers. The following is OCLC's contract with users who sign up for the review function. It is very clear that the "User may not resell", but it doesn't say if OCLC may resell texts created by the User: WorldCat(r) records, metadata and holdings information ("Data") may only be used by Users (defined as individuals accessing WorldCat via OCLC partner Web interfaces) solely for the personal, non-commercial purpose of assisting such Users with locating an item in a library of the User's choosing. Users acquire no ownership rights to any Data or portions thereof provided in any form by WorldCat. No part of any Data provided in any form by WorldCat may be used, disclosed, reproduced, transferred or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of OCLC except as expressly permitted hereunder. Use of WorldCat for cataloging purposes is expressly prohibited. User may not resell or otherwise transfer Data or any application which facilitates access to or the searching retrieval and/or browsing of Data. User shall not omit or obscure any notice of a limitation of warranty, disclaimer, copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, usage limitation or any logo, splash screen or any other terms and/or conditions intended to be displayed in WorldCat by OCLC or any supplier thereto. OCLC and WorldCat are registered trademarks of OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc. The above text is also found on http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/policies/terms/ The privacy policy http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/policies/privacy/ has a section about "our use of your information", but doesn't touch on reviews submitted by users. -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From telias at scls.lib.wi.us Tue Oct 11 12:34:35 2005 From: telias at scls.lib.wi.us (Tana Elias) Date: Tue Oct 11 12:34:57 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] wireless and Patriot Act Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20051011112829.0251f130@mail.scls.lib.wi.us> Hi, I've recently been asked a question I don't know the answer to. It is: A patron wants to know if he used our wireless on our internet, would his computer then be subject to the same scrutiny under the Patriot Act as our library machines are? To expand this, can wireless interactions be tracked the same as in-library interactions? Have any of you had to answer this question, or dealt with this issue in your library? Any ideas, articles, etc. would be helpful. I couldn't find much specifically on this issue. Thanks in advance, Tana Elias Tana Elias, Web Librarian Madison Public Library 201 W. Mifflin St. Madison, WI 53703 http://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org telias@scls.lib.wi.us 608-266-4953 From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 12:51:04 2005 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Tue Oct 11 12:51:08 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] wireless and Patriot Act In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20051011112829.0251f130@mail.scls.lib.wi.us> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20051011112829.0251f130@mail.scls.lib.wi.us> Message-ID: Do you enable encryption? WEP or WPA? If you don't have encryption, or if it's WEP, your patron has more to worry about than J. Edgar Hoover.... /rich On 10/11/05, Tana Elias wrote: > > Hi, > > I've recently been asked a question I don't know the answer to. It is: A > patron wants to know if he used our wireless on our internet, would his > computer then be subject to the same scrutiny under the Patriot Act as our > library machines are? > To expand this, can wireless interactions be tracked the same as > in-library > interactions? > > Have any of you had to answer this question, or dealt with this issue in > your library? Any ideas, articles, etc. would be helpful. I couldn't find > much specifically on this issue. > > Thanks in advance, > Tana Elias > > > > > Tana Elias, Web Librarian > Madison Public Library > 201 W. Mifflin St. > Madison, WI 53703 > http://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org > telias@scls.lib.wi.us > 608-266-4953 > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org Tue Oct 11 13:18:29 2005 From: PWhitford at Braswell-Library.org (Phillip Whitford) Date: Tue Oct 11 13:14:44 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] wireless and Patriot Act Message-ID: I think it's going to depend on how your network is set up. Here, all traffic, wireless or wired, runs through our firewall to get to the Internet. And there is a wired connection from the wi-fi access points and portal through some of our switches to the firewall. So in our case the wi-fi traffic would be subject to the same potential scrutiny (Patriot Act, CIPIA, library polices, local police searches, etc.) as any other computer traffic on our network. However, access to files on the patron's personally owned computer would be treated differently than files on a library owned computer. The "I'm no lawyer" disclaimer applies. Phillip B. Whitford Manager Information Technology Braswell Memorial Library Rocky Mount, NC 27804 Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my organization. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tana Elias Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:35 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Cc: cwagner@scls.lib.wi.us Subject: [Web4lib] wireless and Patriot Act Hi, I've recently been asked a question I don't know the answer to. It is: A patron wants to know if he used our wireless on our internet, would his computer then be subject to the same scrutiny under the Patriot Act as our library machines are? To expand this, can wireless interactions be tracked the same as in-library interactions? Have any of you had to answer this question, or dealt with this issue in your library? Any ideas, articles, etc. would be helpful. I couldn't find much specifically on this issue. Thanks in advance, Tana Elias Tana Elias, Web Librarian Madison Public Library 201 W. Mifflin St. Madison, WI 53703 http://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org telias@scls.lib.wi.us 608-266-4953 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From rcmason at rsproductions.net Tue Oct 11 16:34:36 2005 From: rcmason at rsproductions.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rick=20Mason?=) Date: Tue Oct 11 16:34:44 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: Web4lib Digest, Vol 7, Issue 10 Message-ID: <20051011203436.5371.qmail@website12.com> Jonathan, A very reasonably priced (i.e. no charge) database that might be a good additional resource for your students is the Directory of Open Access Journals ( http://www.doaj.org/ ). The database has its strengths and weaknesses, but it seems quite promising! My apologies if someone has listed this database already... I am on the digest and therefore may not have seen all the replies Rick Mason > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:08:21 -0500 > From: "Jonathan Bloy" > Subject: [Web4lib] Full text for the life and environmental sciences > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Folks, > > I've been looking for reasonably priced databases for a small liberal > arts college that would provide good full text for the life and > environmental sciences. So far, I've only found BioOne and EBSCOhost's > Academic Search Premier (which is not inexpensive, but worked for our > college overall). Can anyone recommend another database with full text > scholarly articles in these areas? > > Thank you! > > --- > Jonathan Bloy > Web Services Librarian > Edgewood College > Madison, Wisconsin > http://library.edgewood.edu From lbspodic at ust.hk Tue Oct 11 22:06:31 2005 From: lbspodic at ust.hk (Edward Spodick) Date: Tue Oct 11 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 11:32 pm -0500 10/10/05, Jeremy Dunck wrote: >I'm not the right person to respond on this, but if you haven't seen >Ning yet, check it out: >http://www.ning.com/ I tried to visit it, but I had cookies turned off at the time. Interesting that if you do this, the site will not even tell you what the application is about. Silly. Perhaps I will visit again later when I have cookies reactivated, or perhaps not. If they are a commercial product, then even if I visit again, this configuration problem would really mark against them in my book. :) -Edward -- Edward F Spodick, Information Technology Manager Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Library lbspodic@ust.hk tel:852-2358-6743 fax:852-2358-1043 From jdunck at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 00:02:20 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Wed Oct 12 00:02:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510112102u348d2e62sc0e46d104b61d6c9@mail.gmail.com> On 10/11/05, Edward Spodick wrote: > At 11:32 pm -0500 10/10/05, Jeremy Dunck wrote: > >I'm not the right person to respond on this, but if you haven't seen > >Ning yet, check it out: > >http://www.ning.com/ > > I tried to visit it, but I had cookies turned off at the time. Interesting that if you do this, the site will not even tell you what the application is about. Silly. Perhaps I will visit again later when I have cookies reactivated, or perhaps not. If they are a commercial product, then even if I visit again, this configuration problem would really mark against them in my book. :) You're right, of course, and I'm not intending to peddle their wares, but it would be a shame if you missed the features for that speed bump... From lbspodic at ust.hk Wed Oct 12 00:06:55 2005 From: lbspodic at ust.hk (Edward Spodick) Date: Wed Oct 12 00:07:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: <2545a92c0510112102u348d2e62sc0e46d104b61d6c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> <2545a92c0510112102u348d2e62sc0e46d104b61d6c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 11:02 pm -0500 11/10/05, Jeremy Dunck wrote: > > I tried to visit it, but I had cookies turned off at the time. Interesting that if you do this, the site will not even tell you what the application is about. Silly. Perhaps I will visit again later when I have cookies reactivated, or perhaps not. If they are a commercial product, then even if I visit again, this configuration problem would really mark against them in my book. :) > >You're right, of course, and I'm not intending to peddle their wares, >but it would be a shame if you missed the features for that speed >bump... We have some faculty who are insistent on not using cookies - and others who simply prefer to avoid them where possible. This means some sites won't work for them. Our Library's systems, digital initiatives, etc. will not be included in that list. I will still try to remember to revisit later to see what they are doing and keep up on tech trends - I just won't be selecting a product for our own use which has such a limitation. -Edward -- Edward F Spodick, Information Technology Manager Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Library lbspodic@ust.hk tel:852-2358-6743 fax:852-2358-1043 From lbspodic at ust.hk Wed Oct 12 00:12:54 2005 From: lbspodic at ust.hk (Edward Spodick) Date: Wed Oct 12 00:13:13 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Uses of Social Software in Libraries? In-Reply-To: References: <200510101802.j9AI2Se01039@postoffice.providence.edu> <2545a92c0510102132g503fb070td8bdbce0b31862df@mail.gmail.com> <2545a92c0510112102u348d2e62sc0e46d104b61d6c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 12:06 pm +0800 12/10/05, Edward Spodick wrote: >We have some faculty who are insistent on not using cookies - and others who simply prefer to avoid them where possible. This means some sites won't work for them. Our Library's systems, digital initiatives, etc. will not be included in that list. I should probably clarify - I have no problem with software/products which use cookies for various functions, authorizations, etc. I do have a problem with one which won't let you do or present anything except an error message when cookies are disabled. If the product is mostly functional, except for certain features/capabilities, then it still might be appropriate for our use. Sorry if I sounded to much like a neo-luddite there. :) -- Edward F Spodick, Information Technology Manager Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Library lbspodic@ust.hk tel:852-2358-6743 fax:852-2358-1043 From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 08:13:54 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 08:14:19 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: I've written a new article about Authority... http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000057.php ...that folks on this list may enjoy. Just don't show it to any old-fashioned librarians :-) Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Oct 12 11:03:55 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed Oct 12 11:04:10 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051012150402.0C1E5570364@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > I've written a new article about Authority... > > http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000057.php > > ...that folks on this list may enjoy. Just don't show it to any > old-fashioned librarians :-) It's interesting that all too often even the most reasonable objections or concerns about Wikipedia (or Google, or Apple, or Technorati, or...) are predetermined to be old-fashioned. So o.k., call me old-fashioned, but if I substituted Britannica for Wikipedia in Morville's article, the piece would have no merit, because the argument is not evidence-driven. Much postulation, yes, and much reference to current vogues (is it possible to write about the Web without mentioning Google?), but there's not a whit of fact sullying its assertions. It's as if Morville said, "Intelligent design is good--and if you disagree with me, you're old-fashioned!" or "WMDs really are hidden in Iraq--and if you disagree with me, you're old-fashioned!" If there is an argument to be made for Wikipedia, it has to be made with solid facts and impervious arguments, and preferably without advance warning that to debate its merits is to be old-fashioned. That preemptive strike, not brisk merit-based discussion by information professionals, is what is truly outdated. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 11:35:20 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 11:35:44 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20051012150402.0C1E5570364@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: In response to Karen... First, for those who haven't read the article, I'd like to note that it was written (and should be read) with a sense of humor. Second, as a librarian who's married to a librarian, I'd like to note that much of what happens in libraries and some of what is taught in library schools is not evidence-based. Third, I'm including below some facts about the Wikipedia. Its growing popularity as a reference source makes it worthy of study by academics and librarians. I, for one, would love to see some serious evidence-based academic research that compares the quality and accuracy and bias of the Wikipedia to traditional reference sources. Fourth, if you read the article, you'll see that I am not unaware of the Wikipedia's flaws. Fifth, I just wrote about the Web without mentioning Google. Cheers! Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org --- Wikipedia Popularity http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/gBdN0T9JTAMddv/Wiki-Mania.xhtml The Web site is among the 100 most-visited on the Internet, according to Web traffic analysis firm Alexa. The firm reports that Wikipedia is the 58th most-visited site globally, compared to a 69th-place ranking for About.com, the citizen-expert site acquired by The New York Times earlier this year for US$410 million. Original Article (Authority) http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000057.php From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Wed Oct 12 12:05:20 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed Oct 12 12:05:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] wireless and Patriot Act In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20051011112829.0251f130@mail.scls.lib.wi.us> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20051011112829.0251f130@mail.scls.lib.wi.us> Message-ID: <434D3440.3@kcoyle.net> I thought this was an excellent question so I forwarded it on...tThis has now been blogged (and answered) on Mary Minow's LibraryLaw Blog: http://blog.librarylaw.com/librarylaw/ kc Tana Elias wrote: > Hi, > > I've recently been asked a question I don't know the answer to. It > is: A patron wants to know if he used our wireless on our internet, > would his computer then be subject to the same scrutiny under the > Patriot Act as our library machines are? > To expand this, can wireless interactions be tracked the same as > in-library interactions? > > Have any of you had to answer this question, or dealt with this issue > in your library? Any ideas, articles, etc. would be helpful. I > couldn't find much specifically on this issue. > > Thanks in advance, > Tana Elias > > > > > Tana Elias, Web Librarian > Madison Public Library > 201 W. Mifflin St. > Madison, WI 53703 > http://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org > telias@scls.lib.wi.us > 608-266-4953 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From santillij at indianprairielibrary.org Wed Oct 12 12:15:43 2005 From: santillij at indianprairielibrary.org (Jane H. Santilli) Date: Wed Oct 12 12:15:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Indian Prairie Public Library - Web Site Survey Message-ID: <32721.64.107.143.2.1129133743.squirrel@64.107.143.2> Hello everyone: We're redesigning our Web site and need suggestions for improving the design, navigation, wording (e.g., what we should use instead of periodicals, databases, circulation, etc.), content, etc. The redesign deadline is June 2006, so we're in the early stages of our project. Please visit the Web site at http://www.indianprairielibrary.org to take the survey, which will be available until mid-November 2005. We appreciate all the assistance we can get. Sincerely, Jane H. Santilli and the Web Site Committee Jane H. Santilli Technology Librarian Indian Prairie Public Library 401 Plainfield Road Darien, IL 60561 (630) 887-8760 x224 santillij@indianprairielibrary.org From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Wed Oct 12 12:19:40 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed Oct 12 12:20:13 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434D379C.4000505@kcoyle.net> Peter, thanks. What jumps out at me here is not the concept of "authority" but of "findability." The information that people use is the information that they find, and knowing human nature, it's the information that they find most easily. In 1984 or so, the U of California MELVYL catalog put up its first A&I database online -- Medline. The reasons for that were not that we thought it was the most highly used database; it wasn't: the only folks with current access were researchers in the med schools (this was before it was available for free online from NLM). Nor was it the most needed database. 1) The data was free, and 2) the medical schools were/are powerful in the overall UC community. Within a few years, that database was getting searched as frequently as the online catalog. Yes, people were doing as many searches in Medline as they were in the library catalog. Now it isn't possible that suddenly everyone at UC became a medical student or a biochem researcher. I imagine that if you did a study of doctoral dissertations issued during the 10-year period between about 1986 and 1996, you'd find that there are in inordinate number of citations that could have come from Medline, pretty much regardless of the topic of the dissertation. As a matter of fact, finding those citations in dissertations from departments like music and architecture would be a fun quest. Some people at the then Division of Library Automation read this as a great success story. Me, it gave me stomach aches. We were changing the nature of the information that was being used for research, and therefore were changing the nature of that research. Not consciously, and not necessarily in a rational way. I had one of those horrid "sense of responsibility" feelings -- like when you touch something in a store and a shelf collapses two rows over. Yes, I felt guilty for making some data "too available", and was greatly relieved when we loaded up a host of other databases in other disciplines. To me this is an obvious fact of our information world, yet one that I have not seen studied in any depth. kc Peter Morville wrote: >I've written a new article about Authority... > >http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000057.php > >...that folks on this list may enjoy. Just don't show it to any >old-fashioned librarians :-) > > >Peter Morville >President, Semantic Studios >http://semanticstudios.com >http://findability.org > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From gerrymck at iastate.edu Wed Oct 12 12:41:02 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed Oct 12 12:41:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] eProfile: WikimediaWorlds. Part I. Wikipedia Message-ID: ***Apologies for Receipt of Duplicate Postings*** WikimediaWorlds. Part I. Wikipedia Colleagues/ I am pleased to announcement the publication of my latest eProfile in Library Hi Tech News: Gerry McKiernan, "WikimediaWorlds. Part I. Wikipedia," Library Hi Tech News 22, no. 8 (September/October 2005): 46-54. Overview/Summary from the publisher ABSTRACT: Purpose - This article of part 1 of a two part series on wikis. Part 1 focuses on Wikipedia. Design/methodology/approach - The article is prepared by a library professional and provides a summary of the main features. Findings - A wiki is a piece of server software that allows users to freely create and edit web page content using any web browser. Wiki supports hyperlinks and has a simple text syntax for creating new pages and crosslinks between internal pages on the fly. Originality/value - This article is a useful summary of a development of interest to library and information management professionals I have self-archived a copy at: [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gerrymck/WMW-I.pdf ] I Would Most Appreciate Any and All Comments/Critiques/Observations or Cosmic Insights about this Overview/Review. BTW: Wikis (and Blogs) are Not Just For Breakfast Anymore: "The Wiki and the Blog: Toward a Complex Adaptive Intelligence Community" D. CALVIN ANDRUS (Central Intelligence Agency) [CIA] [Studies in Intelligence, September 2005] / Link to full-text available at: [ http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=755904 ] Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Associate Professor And Science and Technology Librarian Iowa State University Library Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From vctinney at dcn.org Wed Oct 12 14:03:02 2005 From: vctinney at dcn.org (V. Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr.) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:03:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434D4FD6.8000206@dcn.org> Peter Morville wrote: . . . >Third, I'm including below some facts about >the Wikipedia. Its growing popularity as >a reference source makes it worthy of study >by academics and librarians. I, for one, >would love to see some serious evidence-based >academic research that compares the quality >and accuracy and bias of the Wikipedia to >traditional reference sources. > ------------------------------------------ Reference and Homework Help includes http://www.academic-genealogy.com/referencehomeworkhelp.htm Academic Directories and Learning Guides from Oxford, Stanford and Yale Universities. "Created by experts, AllLearn's Directories index leading academic websites that meet the highest intellectual standards." AllLearn offers "a free online library of Academic Directories and Learning Guides. Created by academic specialists, the AllLearn library is an indispensable tool for online research and self-guided learning." . . . "AllLearn responds to all e-mail inquiries within 1 to 3 hours during customer service hours. Inquiries received after customer service hours are answered the next day." Contact Point: http://www.alllearn.org/help.jsp The Wikipedia is "worthy of study by academics and librarians." Therefore, I suggest you forward your interest to the AllLearn group and see if they will present to you and this web4lib group, an exhaustive evaluation of Wikipedia. In the near future, a consortium of schools http://www.academic-genealogy.com/schoolscollegesuniversities.htm of higher education, their retired alumni with credentials, or online professors with emeritus status, (with the approval of the Board of Trustees of Wikipedia), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia#Board_of_Trustees could regularly monitor previously selected sections of Wikipedia, inserting "Seals of Approval" to worthy pages therein. This would accelerate the use and quality of Wikipedia, exponentially, in my opinion. This "Seal of Approval" was the format of the now defunct Argus Clearinghouse, http://www.clearinghouse.net/ an academic venture begun at the University of Michigan in 1993. http://www1.umn.edu/oit/newsletter/0996-itn/starting_points.html SAMPLE: Campus Tours: Virtual College Tours http://www.clearinghouse.net/cgi-bin/chadmin/viewitem/Education/higher_education/higher_education__general_?551+ Addition of many primary source records would substantially increase the value of the Wikipedia, such as UCB Professor Emeritus Alan H. Nelson's transcription of the St. Leonard Shoreditch Parish Registers 1558-1640 http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~ahnelson/PARISH/Leonard.html Respectfully yours, Tom Tinney, Sr. Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th] - 2004 Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, {both editions] Genealogy and Family History Internet Web Directory http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 14:14:26 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:14:50 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <434D379C.4000505@kcoyle.net> Message-ID: Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard to find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly research, articles that are freely available online, and therefore more findable, are much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between findability and authority. The scholarly researchers that are most commonly cited tend to have the most authority within academia. http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/online-nature01/ http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/kaantelm/do_open_access_CRL.pdf Cheers! Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: Karen Coyle [mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:20 PM To: Peter Morville Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Peter, thanks. What jumps out at me here is not the concept of "authority" but of "findability." The information that people use is the information that they find, and knowing human nature, it's the information that they find most easily. In 1984 or so, the U of California MELVYL catalog put up its first A&I database online -- Medline... From dempseyl at oclc.org Wed Oct 12 14:30:21 2005 From: dempseyl at oclc.org (Dempsey,Lorcan) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:30:29 2005 Subject: Hardly and hard. Was: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: <632EDB1E16D4E041A0EF1DB3ADF67B2B02FB71C3@OAEXCH1SERVER.oa.oclc.org> mmm.. I like this: "Information that's hard to find will remain information that's hardly found" I immediately thought of other formulations patterned after this one ... "systems that are hard to use are hardly used" "books that are hard to read are hardly read" Lorcan Lorcan Dempsey [http://orweblog.oclc.org] OCLC Research [http://www.oclc.org/research/] -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Peter Morville Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:14 PM To: 'Karen Coyle'; web4lib Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard to find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly research, articles that are freely available online, and therefore more findable, are much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between findability and authority. The scholarly researchers that are most commonly cited tend to have the most authority within academia. http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/online-nature01/ http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/kaantelm/do_open_access_CRL.pdf Cheers! Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: Karen Coyle [mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:20 PM To: Peter Morville Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Peter, thanks. What jumps out at me here is not the concept of "authority" but of "findability." The information that people use is the information that they find, and knowing human nature, it's the information that they find most easily. In 1984 or so, the U of California MELVYL catalog put up its first A&I database online -- Medline... _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From pfa at umich.edu Wed Oct 12 14:31:07 2005 From: pfa at umich.edu (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:31:47 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This echoes anecdotal evidence from those who found putting up free copies online increased use and/or purchases of the print item. I am thinking, for example, of the UM Making of America project, in which circulation of the included items rose by several 100 percent after the items were made available over the Internet. I don't know if any articles were published about this trend, but if there were I'd love to see them. Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Peter Morville wrote: > Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard to > find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based > studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly research, > articles that are freely available online, and therefore more findable, are > much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between > findability and authority. The scholarly researchers that are most commonly > cited tend to have the most authority within academia. > > http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/online-nature01/ > > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/kaantelm/do_open_access_CRL.pdf > > Cheers! > > > Peter Morville > President, Semantic Studios > http://semanticstudios.com > http://findability.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Coyle [mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:20 PM > To: Peter Morville > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > Peter, thanks. > > What jumps out at me here is not the concept of "authority" but of > "findability." The information that people use is the information that > they find, and knowing human nature, it's the information that they find > most easily. In 1984 or so, the U of California MELVYL catalog put up > its first A&I database online -- Medline... > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From jdunck at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 14:58:43 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:58:46 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: <20051012150402.0C1E5570364@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510121158o6c485d7bqf00745842762cb60@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/05, Peter Morville wrote: > librarians. I, for one, would love to see some serious evidence-based > academic research that compares the quality and accuracy and bias of the > Wikipedia to traditional reference sources. I've attached a start... The authoritative URL ( http://journalism.utexas.edu:16080/onlinejournalism/2004/papers/wikipedia.pdf ) seems to be offline, but you can see a (slightly unfinished) copy here: http://jmsc.hku.hk/faculty/alih/publications/utaustin-2004-wikipedia-rc2.pdf That is, if you don't trust my attachment. From es254 at cornell.edu Wed Oct 12 15:05:26 2005 From: es254 at cornell.edu (Zoe Stewart-Marshall) Date: Wed Oct 12 15:05:35 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] LITA 2006 Forum Call for Proposals Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051012150250.041b4110@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> (apologies for cross-postings) 2006 LITA National Forum: Call for Proposals Due date for proposals: December 15, 2005 The 2006 National Forum Committee seeks proposals for high quality concurrent sessions and/or poster sessions for the 9th annual LITA National Forum to be held at the Downtown Sheraton in Nashville, Tennessee October 26-29, 2006. Theme: NetVille in Nashville: Web Services as Library Services Libraries are increasingly being asked to provide services through the web. Often these services need to inter-operate with many disparate web environments. Web services and related standards offer an opportunity to provide these services to users. How do web services work together? How do they help us work together? What are some practical applications of web services as library services? The Forum Committee is particularly interested in presentations that highlight specific technology implementations, in any type of library. Proposals on all aspects of library and information technology are welcome. Possible proposal topics include, but are not limited to: 1. Non-Traditional/New Media (Streaming media, Wikis, blogs, Electronic books and journals*) 2. Digital Libraries (Resource linking strategies, Creating and sustaining digital libraries, Preservation of digital records*) 3. Authentication and Authorization (Digital Rights Management, Authentication/privacy, Services for remote patrons, Customization/personalization*) 4. Portals/Federated/Meta-Searching (Design and management of portals, Integrated access to resources, Search engines*) 5. Information architecture (Usability, Web services, Web application design and databases, Web content management*) 6. Emerging Technologies (Wireless technologies, Assistive technologies, New user services and new communities*) 7. Technology Management (IT Project Management, Forecasting, budgeting, and managing technological change, Knowledge sharing applications*) 8. Internet Law (Digital Copyright, Filtering Technology, Privacy*) 9. Open source software 10. Distance education and courseware Presentations must have a technological focus and they must pertain to libraries and/or be of interest to librarians. Concurrent sessions are approximately 70 minutes in length. Forum 2006 will also accept a limited number of poster session proposals. Presenters should indicate their interest in a poster session on their proposals. Presenters are required to submit handouts one month in advance for the Forum notebook, and handouts will be made available on the Web site after the event. Your proposals are welcome and much appreciated! To submit a proposal, send the following information via email (in ASCII, PDF, or RTF format): * Title * Abstract and brief outline * Target audience (Public Library, Academic Library, Special Library, Other - please specify) * Content type (technical, overview, case study, Other - please specify) * Brief biographical information. Include experience as a presenter and expertise in the topic * Full contact information * Is this proposal for a concurrent session? * Is this proposal for a poster session? * If this proposal is for a concurrent session, might this be a possible poster session? * How you heard about the 2006 Forum Call for Proposals The 2006 Forum Planning Committee will review proposals at the ALA Midwinter Conference in January 2006. You will be contacted about the status of your proposal by the end of February 2006. Submit proposals (in ASCII, PDF, or RTF) by December 15, 2005, to: Mary Taylor, mtaylor@ala.org, Executive Director, Library and Information Technology Association. This call for proposals is also posted on the LITA website at http://www.lita.org/ala/lita/litaevents/litanationalforum2006nashvilletn/06_Call.pdf *************************************************************** Zoe Stewart-Marshall Database Enrichment Librarian Cornell University 107E Olin Library Ithaca, NY 14853 Phone (607) 255-5757 Fax (607) 255-6110 From pgorman at library.wisc.edu Wed Oct 12 15:43:03 2005 From: pgorman at library.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed Oct 12 15:43:27 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] Message-ID: If this is borne out by research, it might give pause to those who digitize works in order to *decrease* use of the original (fragile, rare, etc.) items. On the other hand, it would provide indirect evidence that free electronic access is not an impediment to print sales. At 2:31 PM -0400 10/12/05, Patricia F Anderson wrote: >This echoes anecdotal evidence from those who found putting up free >copies online increased use and/or purchases of the print item. I am >thinking, for example, of the UM Making of America project, in which >circulation of the included items rose by several 100 percent after >the items were made available over the Internet. I don't know if any >articles were published about this trend, but if there were I'd love >to see them. > >Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu -- _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman Head, University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center pgorman@library.wisc.edu (608) 265-5291 Fiddle, n. An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's tail on the entrails of a cat. [Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_] From vishwam.annam at wright.edu Wed Oct 12 15:51:06 2005 From: vishwam.annam at wright.edu (Vishwam Annam) Date: Wed Oct 12 15:53:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question Message-ID: <434D692A.6090603@wright.edu> Dear Web4 Lib members, We use 301 redirects to redirect an old webpage to the new one. We had static html pages for our databases, and recently made all of them database driven. Due to this, I ended up having around 1,000 or so.. changed URLs, which needed redirects. If I add all these 1,000 to the httd.config file, then the file size gets huge and it can significatly impacts the server load. I was wondering, has any one across the similar problem, if so how you hndled this? I am sure, we could create "page moved" pages for these links, but that can be tediuous work. Thanks for any assitance, Vishwam Vishwam Annam Web Developer 120 Paul Laurence Dunbar Library 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. Dayton, Oh 45435 Office: 937-775-3262 FAX 937-775-2356 From j.thomale at ttu.edu Wed Oct 12 16:14:38 2005 From: j.thomale at ttu.edu (Thomale, J) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:14:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> > Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard > to > find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based > studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly > research, > articles that are freely available online, and therefore more findable, > are > much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between > findability and authority. Despite this link between findability and [perceived] authority, I think Karen's point is that this is (or should be) a distressing development for librarians. Just because a document is findable, this does not mean that its contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not findable. That scholarly research cites more freely available online articles just because they are freely available online is a commentary on human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not be a prescription for the library community. In objective terms, the findability of a document does not influence the quality of its information. As librarians, we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve quality information. Another way to say this is that we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve *authoritative* information. If we change our traditional definition of "authority" to match this constructivist definition of authority, then we are essentially equating quality with availability and (ultimately) popularity. I think your article is pretty clear that this definition of authority is not desirable for librarians. But, in general, I think we should tread carefully this line between what *is* happening to information on the web and what *should* be happening, lest the theoretical underpinnings upon which librarianship is based be yanked out from under us. Jason Thomale Metadata Librarian Texas Tech University Libraries From andrew-forman at uiowa.edu Wed Oct 12 16:31:52 2005 From: andrew-forman at uiowa.edu (Forman, Andrew B) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:31:56 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: <183294552478444386C2B6B95D597E0501BA6970@IOWAEVS02.iowa.uiowa.edu> librarian value vs. patron value? I'd say the challenge/calling for libraries is to ensure that what we see as important is also findable. If the information is not accessible/findable to an patron, for that patron the information may as well not exist. This is a transcendant issue that affects more than just libraries -- i.e. will the kid learn about drugs from the "streets" or from their parents, etc. FWIW, a Andrew Forman University of Iowa Libraries ISST Development 319 335 9152 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomale, J Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:15 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard > to > find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based > studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly > research, articles that are freely available online, and therefore > more findable, > are > much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between > findability and authority. Despite this link between findability and [perceived] authority, I think Karen's point is that this is (or should be) a distressing development for librarians. Just because a document is findable, this does not mean that its contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not findable. That scholarly research cites more freely available online articles just because they are freely available online is a commentary on human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not be a prescription for the library community. In objective terms, the findability of a document does not influence the quality of its information. As librarians, we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve quality information. Another way to say this is that we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve *authoritative* information. If we change our traditional definition of "authority" to match this constructivist definition of authority, then we are essentially equating quality with availability and (ultimately) popularity. I think your article is pretty clear that this definition of authority is not desirable for librarians. But, in general, I think we should tread carefully this line between what *is* happening to information on the web and what *should* be happening, lest the theoretical underpinnings upon which librarianship is based be yanked out from under us. Jason Thomale Metadata Librarian Texas Tech University Libraries _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 16:36:01 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:36:25 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: That's an excellent clarification. Thanks Jason. Of course, I worry that librarians will have a hard time reaching more than a small percentage of the population with this message. What I'd like to see is greater information literacy on a large scale. Perhaps our K-12 system will help. Perhaps the Web will help. Either way, if more people are better able to evaluate and select trustworthy sources, the gap between popularity and quality will grow smaller. Over the long haul, I'm not convinced that we can't trust "we the people" to select authoritative sources, to a degree. After all, we trust them to select our leaders and our president, to a degree. Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomale, J Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:15 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's hard > to > find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as evidence-based > studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly > research, > articles that are freely available online, and therefore more findable, > are > much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link between > findability and authority. Despite this link between findability and [perceived] authority, I think Karen's point is that this is (or should be) a distressing development for librarians. Just because a document is findable, this does not mean that its contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not findable. That scholarly research cites more freely available online articles just because they are freely available online is a commentary on human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not be a prescription for the library community. In objective terms, the findability of a document does not influence the quality of its information. As librarians, we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve quality information. Another way to say this is that we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve *authoritative* information. If we change our traditional definition of "authority" to match this constructivist definition of authority, then we are essentially equating quality with availability and (ultimately) popularity. I think your article is pretty clear that this definition of authority is not desirable for librarians. But, in general, I think we should tread carefully this line between what *is* happening to information on the web and what *should* be happening, lest the theoretical underpinnings upon which librarianship is based be yanked out from under us. Jason Thomale Metadata Librarian Texas Tech University Libraries _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From billserickson at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 16:42:15 2005 From: billserickson at gmail.com (Bill Erickson) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:42:19 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question In-Reply-To: <434D692A.6090603@wright.edu> References: <434D692A.6090603@wright.edu> Message-ID: <5420af0b0510121342h52ca2367x60c5a4b99aca5e9@mail.gmail.com> If you can define the pages you want to redirect in the form of regular expressions, the Apache RedirectMatch directive might be the thing you need. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectmatch On 10/12/05, Vishwam Annam wrote: > > Dear Web4 Lib members, > > We use 301 redirects to redirect an old webpage to the new one. We had > static html pages for our databases, and recently made all of them > database driven. Due to this, I ended up having around 1,000 or so.. > changed URLs, which needed redirects. If I add all these 1,000 to the > httd.config file, then the file size gets huge and it can significatly > impacts the server load. > > I was wondering, has any one across the similar problem, if so how you > hndled this? I am sure, we could create "page moved" pages for these > links, but that can be tediuous work. > > Thanks for any assitance, > > Vishwam > > Vishwam Annam > Web Developer > 120 Paul Laurence Dunbar Library > 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. > Dayton, Oh 45435 > Office: 937-775-3262 > FAX 937-775-2356 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Bill Erickson PINES Systems Developer Georgia Public Library Service billserickson@gmail.com http://open-ils.org From campbell at virginia.edu Wed Oct 12 16:56:01 2005 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:57:08 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <183294552478444386C2B6B95D597E0501BA6970@IOWAEVS02.iowa.uiowa.edu> Message-ID: <20051012205704.74C531C0B1@fork6.mail.virginia.edu> But how do we decide what is important and authoritative? With the information explosion it is impossible for anyone to say what is truly important outside of a very narrow area of expertise. Many of the standards we have used for evaluating authority seem to be breaking down or perhaps weren't that authoritative to begin with. Is the judgment of the Wikipedia community necessarily worse than that of an encyclopedia publisher whose primary job is to sell encyclopedias? And then there's the problem if you do decide to accept the authority of a community (e.g., you feel lucky at Googling), that there are a lot of questions about which the community has not arrived at a collective opinion, they just don't come up often enough. A few examples of dubious authority: Peer review. Every year there are cases where peer reviewed journals have accepted papers that turn out to contain falsified results. Plus of course the one a year or two ago where a social sciences journal accepted an article that was intentionally gobbledygook. Reputation of the publisher. Well, read any reviewing journal. Though my favorite was 10-12 years ago when there was a big flap because St. Martin's Press was going to publish a book by the Holocaust denier, David Irving. The real shock wasn't that they intended to publish it, it was that their history editor was completely unaware that Irving is a controversial figure. And then a recent example. Brockhaus, who produce what is probably the most respected encyclopedia in the German-speaking world, commissioned an article on the new Pope. The author went out and researched the topic thoroughly. Problem was that his research included the German version of Wikipedia and he lifted some passages without attribution. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Forman, Andrew B > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:32 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > librarian value vs. patron value? > > I'd say the challenge/calling for libraries is to ensure that > what we see as important is also findable. > > If the information is not accessible/findable to an patron, > for that patron the information may as well not exist. > > This is a transcendant issue that affects more than just > libraries -- i.e. will the kid learn about drugs from the > "streets" or from their parents, etc. > > FWIW, > a > > Andrew Forman > University of Iowa Libraries > ISST Development > 319 335 9152 > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomale, J > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:15 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > > Thanks for surfacing this important point Karen. Information that's > hard > > to > > find will remain information that's hardly found. And, as > evidence-based > > studies have shown (see below), even within the realm of scholarly > > research, articles that are freely available online, and therefore > > more > findable, > > are > > much more highly cited...which to me, suggests an important link > between > > findability and authority. > > Despite this link between findability and [perceived] > authority, I think Karen's point is that this is (or should > be) a distressing development for librarians. Just because a > document is findable, this does not mean that its contents > are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not > findable. That scholarly research cites more freely available > online articles just because they are freely available online > is a commentary on human nature and the state of scholarly > research--but it should not be a prescription for the library > community. > > In objective terms, the findability of a document does not > influence the quality of its information. As librarians, we > are supposed to be experts on helping people find and > retrieve quality information. Another way to say this is that > we are supposed to be experts on helping people find and > retrieve *authoritative* information. If we change our > traditional definition of "authority" to match this > constructivist definition of authority, then we are > essentially equating quality with availability and > (ultimately) popularity. > > I think your article is pretty clear that this definition of > authority is not desirable for librarians. But, in general, I > think we should tread carefully this line between what *is* > happening to information on the web and what *should* be > happening, lest the theoretical underpinnings upon which > librarianship is based be yanked out from under us. > > Jason Thomale > Metadata Librarian > Texas Tech University Libraries > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From garyp at itd.umd.edu Wed Oct 12 17:08:56 2005 From: garyp at itd.umd.edu (garyp@itd.umd.edu) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:09:02 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question In-Reply-To: <5420af0b0510121342h52ca2367x60c5a4b99aca5e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Another option (if you are using apache) is mod_rewrite which uses regular expressions to rewrite URL's. It may seem a little daunting at first but if you have to do some heavy duty url rewriting it is a very valuable tool. I've included the 2.0 link below, but if you are running 1.3, just substitute 1.3 in the url. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod_rewrite.html Here's the header from the doc page: ------------------------------------------------------------ `The great thing about mod_rewrite is it gives you all the configurability and flexibility of Sendmail. The downside to mod_rewrite is that it gives you all the configurability and flexibility of Sendmail.'' -- Brian Behlendorf Apache Group `` Despite the tons of examples and docs, mod_rewrite is voodoo. Damned cool voodoo, but still voodoo. '' -- Brian Moore bem@news.cmc.net Welcome to mod_rewrite, the Swiss Army Knife of URL manipulation! This module uses a rule-based rewriting engine (based on a regular-expression parser) to rewrite requested URLs on the fly. It supports an unlimited number of rules and an unlimited number of attached rule conditions for each rule to provide a really flexible and powerful URL manipulation mechanism. The URL manipulations can depend on various tests, for instance server variables, environment variables, HTTP headers, time stamps and even external database lookups in various formats can be used to achieve a really granular URL matching. ----------------------------------------------------------------- (end snippet) On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Bill Erickson wrote: >If you can define the pages you want to redirect in the form of regular >expressions, the Apache RedirectMatch directive might be the thing you need. > >http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectmatch > >On 10/12/05, Vishwam Annam wrote: >> >> Dear Web4 Lib members, >> >> We use 301 redirects to redirect an old webpage to the new one. We had >> static html pages for our databases, and recently made all of them >> database driven. Due to this, I ended up having around 1,000 or so.. >> changed URLs, which needed redirects. If I add all these 1,000 to the >> httd.config file, then the file size gets huge and it can significatly >> impacts the server load. >> >> I was wondering, has any one across the similar problem, if so how you >> hndled this? I am sure, we could create "page moved" pages for these >> links, but that can be tediuous work. >> >> Thanks for any assitance, >> >> Vishwam >> >> Vishwam Annam >> Web Developer >> 120 Paul Laurence Dunbar Library >> 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. >> Dayton, Oh 45435 >> Office: 937-775-3262 >> FAX 937-775-2356 >> _______________________________________________ >> Web4lib mailing list >> Web4lib@webjunction.org >> http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> > > > >-- >Bill Erickson >PINES Systems Developer >Georgia Public Library Service >billserickson@gmail.com >http://open-ils.org >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > **************************************************************** Gary B. Phillips email: garyp@itd.umd.edu Web Systems Manager phone: 301 405 9025 ITD mobile phone: 301 318 6902 **************************************************************** From jenne.heise at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 17:46:40 2005 From: jenne.heise at gmail.com (Jennifer Heise) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:46:43 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <28eeb86b0510121446v581183bdtce3ead150ee7ee92@mail.gmail.com> However, the opposite of the point mentioned below is what i'm really interested in. I think it's our job to make authoritative information more findable, instead of lamenting that information we consider less authoritative is findable. As it is, I see the library profession complaining about what is made findable instead of working to make things more findable themselves. How can we do that? Well, with improved indexing. Improved searching and linking capabilities. Metasearching. And yes, training. Despite this link between findability and [perceived] authority, I think > Karen's point is that this is (or should be) a distressing development > for librarians. Just because a document is findable, this does not mean > that its contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is > not findable. That scholarly research cites more freely available online > articles just because they are freely available online is a commentary > on human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not > be a prescription for the library community. > > In objective terms, the findability of a document does not influence the > quality of its information. As librarians, we are supposed to be experts > on helping people find and retrieve quality information. Another way to > say this is that we are supposed to be experts on helping people find > and retrieve *authoritative* information. From jenne.heise at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 17:57:29 2005 From: jenne.heise at gmail.com (Jennifer Heise) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:57:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28eeb86b0510121457l63d73866r5ae555f8f2c069ff@mail.gmail.com> If you want direct evidence that free electronic access is not necessarily an impediment to print sales, Baen books (http://www.baen.com/AboutUs.htm) is probably the place to go. If you read the intro to their Electronic Library: http://www.baen.com/library/ you see that they've used free online versions to get people to buy print. Has it worked? Well, both free and very very cheap ebooks appear to have worked for them: http://www.baen.com/AboutUs.htm - Jenne Heise On 10/12/05, Peter C. Gorman wrote: > > If this is borne out by research, it might give pause to those who > digitize works in order to *decrease* use of the original (fragile, > rare, etc.) items. On the other hand, it would provide indirect > evidence that free electronic access is not an impediment to print > sales. > > At 2:31 PM -0400 10/12/05, Patricia F Anderson wrote: > >This echoes anecdotal evidence from those who found putting up free > >copies online increased use and/or purchases of the print item. I am > >thinking, for example, of the UM Making of America project, in which > >circulation of the included items rose by several 100 percent after > >the items were made available over the Internet. I don't know if any > >articles were published about this trend, but if there were I'd love > >to see them. > > > >Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu > > -- > _______________________________ > Peter C. Gorman > Head, University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center > pgorman@library.wisc.edu > (608) 265-5291 > > Fiddle, n. An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's > tail on the entrails of a cat. [Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_] > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 19:18:06 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 19:18:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <28eeb86b0510121446v581183bdtce3ead150ee7ee92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Excellent points Jennifer. I would add that we can also accomplish the goal of making high quality information more findable by encouraging companies like Google and Yahoo! to integrate better "authority algorithms" into their search engines. And I'm using "encouraging" in a broad sense that includes "making it difficult for them not to." Perhaps librarians need to become authority activists. Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Heise Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:47 PM To: Thomale, J Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia However, the opposite of the point mentioned below is what i'm really interested in. I think it's our job to make authoritative information more findable, instead of lamenting that information we consider less authoritative is findable. As it is, I see the library profession complaining about what is made findable instead of working to make things more findable themselves. How can we do that? Well, with improved indexing. Improved searching and linking capabilities. Metasearching. And yes, training. From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 19:42:36 2005 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed Oct 12 19:42:39 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: <28eeb86b0510121446v581183bdtce3ead150ee7ee92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In 2003 I wrote an article for Searcher magazine proposing that we need a "graphic equalizer" for search engines -- knobs and dials that we can twist and turn to control how a search engine orders the hit list. The article made a (perhaps tortured) comparison of undergraduate admissions at the University of Michigan (UM), the college football Bowl Championship Series, and Google. It appears that Information Today has moved my piece behind a full text subscription service, but the point was that it'd make sense to let the user influence the ranking algorithm. So you could imagine knobs that let you dial up or down certain dimensions: -- Trustworthiness -- Authenticity (close to the above, but different) -- Humor -- Popularity -- Cynicism -- Controversy ... etc By the way, we still debate the admissions algorithm at U-M, the BCS formula, and Google's PageRank. :-) /rich On 10/12/05, Peter Morville wrote: > Excellent points Jennifer. I would add that we can also accomplish the goal > of making high quality information more findable by encouraging companies > like Google and Yahoo! to integrate better "authority algorithms" into their > search engines. And I'm using "encouraging" in a broad sense that includes > "making it difficult for them not to." Perhaps librarians need to become > authority activists. > > > Peter Morville > President, Semantic Studios > http://semanticstudios.com > http://findability.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Heise > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:47 PM > To: Thomale, J > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > However, the opposite of the point mentioned below is what i'm really > interested in. I think it's our job to make authoritative information more > findable, instead of lamenting that information we consider less > authoritative is findable. > > As it is, I see the library profession complaining about what is made > findable instead of working to make things more findable themselves. > > How can we do that? > Well, with improved indexing. Improved searching and linking capabilities. > Metasearching. And yes, training. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From jdunck at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 20:06:46 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Wed Oct 12 20:06:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: <28eeb86b0510121446v581183bdtce3ead150ee7ee92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510121706p3b2f3a56k70e83596d26ac9e0@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/05, Richard Wiggins wrote: >...It appears that Information > Today has moved my piece behind a full text subscription service, Score another point for the open web... From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 12 20:09:36 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 12 20:10:01 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's a great idea Rich. Of course, in 2005, you'd have to use "sliders" rather than knobs or dials: http://www.iaslash.org/node/7678 Seriously, it would be great to have this sort of control (and algorithmic transparency)...perhaps Yahoo! will deliver that sort of openness in order to beat Google. Otherwise, we'll need an open source search engine. Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wiggins [mailto:richard.wiggins@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:43 PM To: Peter Morville Cc: Jennifer Heise; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In 2003 I wrote an article for Searcher magazine proposing that we need a "graphic equalizer" for search engines -- knobs and dials that we can twist and turn to control how a search engine orders the hit list. The article made a (perhaps tortured) comparison of undergraduate admissions at the University of Michigan (UM), the college football Bowl Championship Series, and Google. It appears that Information Today has moved my piece behind a full text subscription service, but the point was that it'd make sense to let the user influence the ranking algorithm. So you could imagine knobs that let you dial up or down certain dimensions: -- Trustworthiness -- Authenticity (close to the above, but different) -- Humor -- Popularity -- Cynicism -- Controversy ... etc By the way, we still debate the admissions algorithm at U-M, the BCS formula, and Google's PageRank. :-) /rich On 10/12/05, Peter Morville wrote: > Excellent points Jennifer. I would add that we can also accomplish the goal > of making high quality information more findable by encouraging companies > like Google and Yahoo! to integrate better "authority algorithms" into their > search engines. And I'm using "encouraging" in a broad sense that includes > "making it difficult for them not to." Perhaps librarians need to become > authority activists. > > > Peter Morville > President, Semantic Studios > http://semanticstudios.com > http://findability.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Heise > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:47 PM > To: Thomale, J > Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > However, the opposite of the point mentioned below is what i'm really > interested in. I think it's our job to make authoritative information more > findable, instead of lamenting that information we consider less > authoritative is findable. > > As it is, I see the library profession complaining about what is made > findable instead of working to make things more findable themselves. > > How can we do that? > Well, with improved indexing. Improved searching and linking capabilities. > Metasearching. And yes, training. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From DJones at scu.edu Wed Oct 12 20:30:09 2005 From: DJones at scu.edu (David Jones) Date: Wed Oct 12 20:30:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: >>> "Peter Morville" 10/12/2005 5:09:36 PM >>> It's a great idea Rich. Of course, in 2005, you'd have to use "sliders" rather than knobs or dials: http://www.iaslash.org/node/7678 <<< Try out http://www.kayak.com/ for another interesting use of sliders. Takes a while to finish the basic search, but the limiting is pretty smooth. HTH, David _____________________________________________________________________ David Jones mailto:djones@scu.edu Library Systems Manager http://www.scu.edu/library/ Orradre Library fax: 408-551-1805 Santa Clara University phone: 408-551-7167 500 El Camino Real Santa Clara CA 95053-0500 _____________________________________________________________________ "mir war / als haettest du / einen blick auf mich geworfen / ich mich geduckt / sag mir was das war" --Wueste by Blixa Bargeld, http://www.neubauten.org/tabula/wueste.php This message scanned for viruses and SPAM at SCU (MGW2) From LevineJ at mls.lib.il.us Wed Oct 12 20:30:05 2005 From: LevineJ at mls.lib.il.us (Levine, Jenny) Date: Wed Oct 12 20:35:36 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: > Seriously, it would be great to have this sort of control (and algorithmic > transparency)...perhaps Yahoo! will deliver that sort of openness in order > to beat Google. Otherwise, we'll need an open source search engine. Yahoo is already working on this -- http://mindset.research.yahoo.com/. Link courtesy of Gary Price, who has highlighted this in the past on Resourceshelf (http://resourceshelf.com/). Jenny ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny Levine Internet Development Specialist Metropolitan Library System http://www.mls.lib.il.us/ From drweb at san.rr.com Wed Oct 12 21:03:33 2005 From: drweb at san.rr.com (Michael McCulley) Date: Wed Oct 12 21:03:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005001c5cf91$efbbff90$3a964b42@PMM> On this thread, the "authority" behind Wikipedia, is, as I see it, "we the people." Now I love we the people, and I like we the people. I just don't think anyone and everyone that makes up we the people should be having "authority" to publish freely --without any authoritative (see that word?) review-- what they call an encyclopedia of knowledge. It isn't that at all; it's a compilation of what some of we the people believe, and think is "knowledge," and without cited, authoritative sources, I cannot with any confidence recommend this source of validated knowledge. "Group" access to knowledge to edit my words does not guarantee knowledge, nor does group publishing of "knowledge" with lots of visits and hits validate knowledge. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source for knowledge. You can see my posts on this issue before, and I don't disagree yet with myself ;) .. http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia&domains=drweb.typepad.com&sitesearc h=drweb.typepad.com It's zero sum for me still, though this does not discount value in the wiki idea or platform. There are things we can do with group sites, group editing, group "authority." A validated encyclopedia in the current form is not one of them I could support. It's when it (Wikipedia supporters) try to displace or replace "authority" with validation that I cannot agree. Having 3 people view my words and "agree" with them isn't authoritative review. It's like scanning for typos. It might or might not find the errors in the knowledge. Best, DrWeb -- P. Michael McCulley aka DrWeb mailto:drweb@san.rr.com San Diego, CA http://drweb.typepad.com/ Quote of the Moment: -The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made. Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:46:58 PM From marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com Wed Oct 12 21:08:02 2005 From: marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com (Marion Sumerianlibrarian) Date: Wed Oct 12 21:08:06 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <2545a92c0510121706p3b2f3a56k70e83596d26ac9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051013010803.96888.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Has the listserv has been usurped by a gaggle of entrepreneurs out to promote their own book? Frankly, I couldn't care less what kind of friggin' smartphone Morville prefers (I am thinking, however, that he either owns stock in the company or is interested to see how his promotion of the product affects the market--not to mention his image, which presently appears to me as a self-aggrandizing information professional gone Hollywood-mad. Commercialization of a medium for information exchange among professionals--namely, the Web4lib listserv--coerces its members to read what is essentially no more than a pile of spam. No, thank you, I will not buy you book!! --- Jeremy Dunck wrote: > On 10/12/05, Richard Wiggins wrote: > >...It appears that Information > > Today has moved my piece behind a full text subscription service, > > Score another point for the open web... > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From jdunck at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 21:23:59 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Wed Oct 12 21:24:02 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <005001c5cf91$efbbff90$3a964b42@PMM> References: <005001c5cf91$efbbff90$3a964b42@PMM> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510121823r4d631ebfgfd18d34d3cf5c04b@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/05, Michael McCulley wrote: > It isn't that at all; > it's a compilation of what some of we the people believe, and think is > "knowledge," and without cited, authoritative sources, I cannot with any > confidence recommend this source of validated knowledge. Do you get cited, authoritative sources in traditional encyclopedias? > "Group" access to > knowledge to edit my words does not guarantee knowledge, nor does group > publishing of "knowledge" with lots of visits and hits validate knowledge. The priests know best, then... > Wikipedia is not an authoritative source for knowledge. You ever hear that quote from William Gibson: "The future has already arrived. It's just not evenly distributed yet." Wikipedia is an unevenly accurate source. The problem is in judging whether the particular thing you're interested in is correct. But wikipedia is getting better all the time (take a look at that PDF I previously attached), and fast. > It's zero sum for me still, though this does not discount value in the wiki > idea or platform. > It's when it (Wikipedia supporters) try to displace or replace "authority" > with validation that I cannot agree. On a WP Talk page (link lost, sorry), one person suggested that any time a person contributes to wikipedia, they become wholly responsible (thereby lending validation) for the text of the page. He was laughed at. Folks make minor corrections all the time. Edits != editors, editors != scholarship. I take material from WP with a grain of salt, but I find it a deep and broad source for introduction and orientation on a topic. Then again, I've never considered Brittanica (or much of anything) to be a worthy single source. No encyclopedia will ever be the sum of human knowledge. They can merely be useful, but that's enough. From richard.wiggins at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 22:28:03 2005 From: richard.wiggins at gmail.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed Oct 12 22:28:06 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, if I had been true to metaphor, even back in the 70s, graphic equalizers used slide controls. /rich On 10/12/05, David Jones wrote: > >>> "Peter Morville" 10/12/2005 5:09:36 PM >>> > It's a great idea Rich. Of course, in 2005, you'd have to use "sliders" > rather than knobs or dials: > > http://www.iaslash.org/node/7678 > <<< > > Try out http://www.kayak.com/ for another interesting use of sliders. Takes a while to finish the basic search, but the limiting is pretty smooth. > > > > HTH, > David > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > David Jones mailto:djones@scu.edu > Library Systems Manager http://www.scu.edu/library/ > Orradre Library fax: 408-551-1805 > Santa Clara University phone: 408-551-7167 > 500 El Camino Real > Santa Clara CA 95053-0500 > _____________________________________________________________________ > "mir war / als haettest du / einen blick auf mich geworfen / > ich mich geduckt / sag mir was das war" > --Wueste by Blixa Bargeld, http://www.neubauten.org/tabula/wueste.php > > > This message scanned for viruses and SPAM at SCU (MGW2) > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Thu Oct 13 05:40:43 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Thu Oct 13 05:41:27 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> (j.thomale@ttu.edu) References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F565C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <20051013094043.56F90126442@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:14:38 -0500 > From: "Thomale, J" > > Just because a document is findable, this does not mean that its > contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not > findable. Is there any indication that anyone thinks it is? > That scholarly research cites more freely available online articles > just because they are freely available online is a commentary on > human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not > be a prescription for the library community. Here I disagree. The prescription for the library community must surely be "make more things findable". An article that can't be found might just as well not exist, however brilliantly argued it is. > As librarians, we are supposed to be experts on helping people find > and retrieve quality information. Another way to say this is that we > are supposed to be experts on helping people find and retrieve > *authoritative* information. Yes. > If we change our traditional definition of "authority" to match this > constructivist definition of authority, then we are essentially > equating quality with availability and (ultimately) popularity. I think three unrelated things are being conflated here. No-one is suggesting that availability is the same thing as authority -- only that the authority of an article is worthless if it's unavailable. And popularity is a complete red herring. An article may achieve popularity through being available, but it certainly can't achieve authority through popularity. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are" -- W. Somerset Maugham. From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Thu Oct 13 06:19:56 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Thu Oct 13 06:20:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] In-Reply-To: <28eeb86b0510121457l63d73866r5ae555f8f2c069ff@mail.gmail.com> (message from Jennifer Heise on Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:57:29 -0400) References: <28eeb86b0510121457l63d73866r5ae555f8f2c069ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051013101956.3629A126442@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:57:29 -0400 > From: Jennifer Heise > > If you want direct evidence that free electronic access is not > necessarily an impediment to print sales, Baen books > (http://www.baen.com/AboutUs.htm) is probably the place to go. What they actually do may be good, but this is an object example of how not to write for the web. I've read the whole first page (five paragraphs, 250 words) and still have _no idea_ what they actually do. It's full of stupid statements like "Before I explain what [the site's features] are, however, I will take the time to make clear that I do not believe the superiority of this web site stems from any Intrinsic Commercial Virtue, which is the claim normally made by companies hawking their wares", but nothing along the lines of "We let you download the books". I wonder, what proportion of the people who set out to read the "About us" document bother to continue beyond the first page? Not me, anyway. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "Stay tuned for exciting news about chicken zygapophyses" -- Matt Wedel. From marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com Thu Oct 13 10:02:28 2005 From: marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com (Marion Sumerianlibrarian) Date: Thu Oct 13 10:02:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] In-Reply-To: <20051013101956.3629A126442@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051013140228.13616.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The page you provided a link for doesn't explain what Baen books does because, as the title of the page says, it's "About Baen Books: Who We Are, and What This Is." In other words, it's a statement about the *philosophy* behind what they do at Baen Books, not meant to be an explication of the "what," but rather the "why." And, by the way, not unexpectedly it's very much written in the meandering, self-obsessed story-line style of the literature they publish. All of this strikes me as immediately obvious, although I've never visited the site before. Accusing the Baen Books publisher/editor/web designer of bad practice is not any fairer than if someone pointed out that *your* email message was stupid because it doesn't explain what *you* do. What does Baen Books actually do? The answer is clear enough from their homepage. It doesn't need any further explanation. What is neat, however, is that the way you approach the variety of offerings they make is entirely up to you. For example, you might like to jump on a book right away, or you may prefer to dilly-dally all day long in your rubber duckies in the rain with a shopping bag full of pee-oh-tee (actually, it seems the Baen Books boyz prefer grog). In any case, let the market (which is variously defined in a free web-world) decide. Thanks very much for your post and, if you've read *this* far, thanks for allowing me toot my horn, MS -- Mike Taylor wrote: > > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:57:29 -0400 > > From: Jennifer Heise > > > > If you want direct evidence that free electronic access is not > > necessarily an impediment to print sales, Baen books > > (http://www.baen.com/AboutUs.htm) is probably the place to go. > > What they actually do may be good, but this is an object example of > how not to write for the web. I've read the whole first page (five > paragraphs, 250 words) and still have _no idea_ what they actually do. > It's full of stupid statements like "Before I explain what [the site's > features] are, however, I will take the time to make clear that I do > not believe the superiority of this web site stems from any Intrinsic > Commercial Virtue, which is the claim normally made by companies > hawking their wares", but nothing along the lines of "We let you > download the books". > > I wonder, what proportion of the people who set out to read the > "About us" document bother to continue beyond the first page? > > Not me, anyway. > > _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ > /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk > )_v__/\ "Stay tuned for exciting news about chicken zygapophyses" -- > Matt Wedel. > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From j.thomale at ttu.edu Thu Oct 13 10:36:49 2005 From: j.thomale at ttu.edu (Thomale, J) Date: Thu Oct 13 10:36:53 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> > > Just because a document is findable, this does not mean that its > > contents are *better* or more truthful than a document that is not > > findable. > > Is there any indication that anyone thinks it is? Not in so many words, but the statement that Peter made linking findability with authority would lead you to that conclusion, wouldn't it? "Authority" tends to indicate "truth," or at least, a high potential to speak/contain the truth. Thus, if "findable" documents become more authoritative than less findable ones (because they are found, and read, and used), then they will be perceived to contain more truth, regardless of their actual content. And the web makes it very easy to make some documents vastly more findable than others--not because the author is more knowledgeable about their subject, but because the author is web-savvy. It's a ground-up way (and, IMHO, a backwards way) of thinking about truth. It's the modern viewpoint juxtaposed against the postmodern: is there objective Truth out there for us to discover? Or do we all create our own "truth"? Since it seems that I didn't make myself 100% clear, here is what I'm saying in a nutshell: Current applications on the web work under this ground-up, constructionist, postmodern view of truth and authority. Google. Wikipedia. Social tagging. Blogs. This was the point of Peter Morville's article. On the web, things that are popular--i.e., things that are linked to most often--are perceived as "more authoritative" and thus "more truthful." Maybe not to you, and maybe not to me, but in the eyes of the general population, I think this holds true. As we continue our tentative entrance into this "brave new world" of networked information, librarians should be fully cognizant of and take great care that we don't espouse this viewpoint. As librarians, we very much fight against this notion that a piece of information's veracity depends on its popularity (or accessibility, or findability, or whatever word you want to use). That's why so many librarians have reservations about using Wikipedia as a sole, authoritative source of information--because it has no authority other than what "we the people" have given it. As librarians, we believe in some semblance of objective authority. We believe in evaluating information more or less on its own merits (i.e., quality information versus low quality information). > > That scholarly research cites more freely available online articles > > just because they are freely available online is a commentary on > > human nature and the state of scholarly research--but it should not > > be a prescription for the library community. > > Here I disagree. The prescription for the library community must > surely be "make more things findable". An article that can't be found > might just as well not exist, however brilliantly argued it is. I wholeheartedly agree with you. That *should* be the prescription for the library community--to make as much [quality] information available as possible. What I was saying should *not* be a prescription for the library community is adopting this ground-up, constructivist view of truth and authority that all these web applications are making so tantalizing. As others have already said, we should also teach people how to go about evaluating information--not just in terms of "authority," but in terms of veracity as well. And I suppose the issue isn't so much findability as it is accessibility. In a search in a typical online database, a user might return a set of 50 documents. 10 of those might be available as full text. 20 might be available in the user's local library. The other 20 are only available in journals to which the library does not subscribe. In his/her research, the user only considers citing from the 10 articles that are available as full text because he/she doesn't want to have to go down physically to the library. All the documents are equally findable, but only 10 are readily accessible. Those are the ones that get cited--completely apart from the fact that the other 40 documents might have been more appropriate. Those articles that are readily available then become more widely cited. So, besides making information more findable and more accessible, we also have the responsibility to teach users that what's convenient isn't always what's best. Sometimes they actually have to bring themselves down to the library. Sometimes they actually have to order things via ILL. The best information for their purposes may NOT be readily available--and, while we work to ensure that all information is available, we should also understand that sometimes it isn't. > > If we change our traditional definition of "authority" to match this > > constructivist definition of authority, then we are essentially > > equating quality with availability and (ultimately) popularity. > > I think three unrelated things are being conflated here. No-one is > suggesting that availability is the same thing as authority -- only > that the authority of an article is worthless if it's unavailable. > And popularity is a complete red herring. An article may achieve > popularity through being available, but it certainly can't achieve > authority through popularity. Mike, I agree with you--I agree that this is how it *should* be. I agree that quality, availability, and popularity should be three unrelated things. And, to most librarians, they are. But what *I'm* seeing (and maybe I'm just seeing things incorrectly) among some librarians of my generation (i.e., young), :-) is this fundamental ideological shift. Since it came to the forefront of public consciousness, the web has had this promise of vastly democratizing information. It has carried with it the ultimate realization of the relativist philosophy. All truth becomes relative. People are free to construct and reinforce their own "truth" regardless of how well that truth matches reality. Young librarians such as myself have spent a large number of their formative years familiar with the web and having these promises poured in our ears. And we've seen that, on the web, things *do* achieve authority (however dubious that authority may be) through popularity. Librarians, who have traditionally been "gatekeepers" of information, have a responsibility to be wary of and question this, no matter the guise under which it comes. And--in all honesty--perhaps this isn't that big of an ideological shift. Information retrieval research has used this user-centric concept of "relevance" for many years--what is considered relevant is in the eyes of the user. There is no objective measure of relevance. So, perhaps the leap isn't that great. Anyway, I've rambled on WAY too long about this. It was good to hear from you, Mike. Jason Thomale Metadata Librarian Texas Tech University Libraries From jenne.heise at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 11:12:04 2005 From: jenne.heise at gmail.com (Jennifer Heise) Date: Thu Oct 13 11:12:07 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <28eeb86b0510130812t45c5a400r66d5bb2a3d8b757b@mail.gmail.com> > > Current applications on the web work under this ground-up, > constructionist, postmodern view of truth and authority. Google. > Wikipedia. Social tagging. Blogs. This was the point of Peter Morville's > article. On the web, things that are popular--i.e., things that are > linked to most often--are perceived as "more authoritative" and thus > "more truthful." Maybe not to you, and maybe not to me, but in the eyes > of the general population, I think this holds true. But isn't this also the premise of the Citation Indexes? Things that are cited more often must be more authoritative? Not that their popularity makes them more authoritative, but that being authoritative makes them popular. Either there's a false dichotomy here, or the fact that the most authoritative information is generally the hardest to get to in the library world, and the highest priced, is a deliberate attempt to make authoritative information less findable. Getting away from the online world: which is more findable, the radio report of the AP news article on the scientific study summarized in JAMA, or the expensive medical journal article that JAMA is summarizing? The problem that less authoritative information is more findable is not new or online. The idea of making information in general more findable, and trying different ways to create more authoritative information sources, that's what's new. From jdunck at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 11:15:31 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Thu Oct 13 11:15:36 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510130815k525c4e31l258ac74e2f9af35@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/05, Thomale, J wrote: ... > It's a ground-up way (and, IMHO, a backwards way) of thinking about > truth. It's the modern viewpoint juxtaposed against the postmodern: is > there objective Truth out there for us to discover? Or do we all create > our own "truth"? ... > On the web, things that are popular--i.e., things that are > linked to most often--are perceived as "more authoritative" and thus > "more truthful." Maybe not to you, and maybe not to me, but in the eyes > of the general population, I think this holds true. > > As we continue our tentative entrance into this "brave new world" of > networked information, librarians should be fully cognizant of and take > great care that we don't espouse this viewpoint. As librarians, we very > much fight against this notion that a piece of information's veracity > depends on its popularity (or accessibility, or findability, or whatever > word you want to use). ... I don't actually think this is a new phenomenon. Most people take pieces published in the NY Times at face value under the assumption that the paper is popular, has a good reputation, and is therefore trustworthy. Of course that's not always right. The web magnifies a gap between trust and scholarship which has always been there. We (individually) can't possible fact-check everything. Trust enters into it somewhere. The public has to trust that librarians are going to steer them straight, for example. ;-) From drodgers at umich.edu Thu Oct 13 11:22:02 2005 From: drodgers at umich.edu (David L. Rodgers) Date: Thu Oct 13 11:21:56 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> <28eeb86b0510130812t45c5a400r66d5bb2a3d8b757b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008c01c5d009$dd796250$6501a8c0@David> Have a look at "The Wisdom of Crowds" by James Surowiecki, Doubleday, ISBN 0-385-50386-5. The thesis is interesting and some of the examples revealing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Heise" To: "Thomale, J" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > > Current applications on the web work under this ground-up, > constructionist, postmodern view of truth and authority. Google. > Wikipedia. Social tagging. Blogs. This was the point of Peter Morville's > article. On the web, things that are popular--i.e., things that are > linked to most often--are perceived as "more authoritative" and thus > "more truthful." Maybe not to you, and maybe not to me, but in the eyes > of the general population, I think this holds true. But isn't this also the premise of the Citation Indexes? Things that are cited more often must be more authoritative? Not that their popularity makes them more authoritative, but that being authoritative makes them popular. Either there's a false dichotomy here, or the fact that the most authoritative information is generally the hardest to get to in the library world, and the highest priced, is a deliberate attempt to make authoritative information less findable. Getting away from the online world: which is more findable, the radio report of the AP news article on the scientific study summarized in JAMA, or the expensive medical journal article that JAMA is summarizing? The problem that less authoritative information is more findable is not new or online. The idea of making information in general more findable, and trying different ways to create more authoritative information sources, that's what's new. _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From mike at indexdata.com Thu Oct 13 11:38:41 2005 From: mike at indexdata.com (mike@indexdata.com) Date: Thu Oct 13 11:39:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> (j.thomale@ttu.edu) References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F577C@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <20051013153841.6E79F43F99@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:36:49 -0500 > From: "Thomale, J" > > It's a ground-up way (and, IMHO, a backwards way) of thinking about > truth. It's the modern viewpoint juxtaposed against the postmodern: > is there objective Truth out there for us to discover? Or do we all > create our own "truth"? _Lots_ of good stuff in the messages that I just ruthlessly snipped, there :-) Most of it, I don't have time to do justice to in reply. But I do just want to make a distinction between authoritative and non-authoritative resources, and ask where authority comes from. First, what is authoritative? I hear a lot of criticism of the WikiPedia on the basis that it's not authoritative; but it seems absurd to me that anyone could possibly think _any_ encyclopedia is authoritative. In my spare time (when I'm not being an Internet information engineer), I am an academic research in an altogether unrelated field (dinosaur palaeontology), and I would never even _consider_ citing an encyclopedia, or using information from one, when I'm writing for publication. The role of the encyclopedia (at least in that field of endeavour) is not really to provide information, but to provide _pointers_ to (and summaries of) information to be found in the primary literature. So, no, I don't consider the WikiPedia to be authoritative; but neither do I consider Britannica, or Don Glut's four-volume _Dinosaurs: The Enyclopedia_ to be authoritative. Surely that position is not unusual? Isn't that how everyone works? Second, then, if primarily literature is authoritative, and encyclopedias are not, what makes it so? I'd like to hear others' ideas about this, but to me the one of the explanations is that it is a matter of responsibility. If someone publishes an article in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, their byline is there for all to see, and any mistakes will reflect badly on the author. There's nowhere to hide. By contrast, encyclopedia articles tend to be anonymous, or created by committee, so there is no single person identifiable as responsible for what's written. No doubt there is more to it than that, but it's a factor. By the way, there are other factors that contribute to an article's citability apart from its availability and perceived authority. One is the matter of language. To pick an example in my own field, by far the best and most exhaustive anatomical descriptions of brachiosaurid sauropod dinosaurs are those written by Werner Janensch in the early-to-mid twentieth century. However, they are much less often cited that subsequent palpably inferior offerings -- even though the later papers are in obscure and hard-to-obtain journals -- because Janensch wrote in German rather than English. (Fortunately, in palaeontology, the pictures are often just as important as the text, and they are easy to translate :-) _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "Now, Mrs Yeti-Goosecreature, you've got a very unusual name, haven't you?" / "Yes - It's Simon" -- Monty Python's Flying Circus. From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Oct 13 12:18:25 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Oct 13 12:18:39 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051013161833.72AEC5703BE@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > In 2003 I wrote an article for Searcher magazine proposing that we > need a "graphic equalizer" for search engines -- knobs and dials that > we can twist and turn to control how a search engine orders the hit > list. On my extreme-happiness wishlist would be if Google had a widget you could click to give priority to items selected by Librarians' Internet Index. (Sometimes people ask me about an LII toolbar, which until we improve how our search works would almost be self-defeating. "Why doesn't it work like Google!" Etc. Such things have existed but I'm tepid towards them... I think it's backwards... the little bird should hop on the hippo's back, not vice versa. Squish.) I was interviewed about Wikipedia some time ago by Open Source Radio, and I still feel burned by the interviewer, who had not revealed in advance that he was Wikipedia-gaga. Lots of mystical talk about Wikipedia, but whenever I hear references to "'the' community," I hold my wristwatch high. Have I used it? Of course. But until Wikipedia resolves the authority questions--particularly how you improve the chances (which is always what we are talking about with authority, never an absolute) that someone looking at the resource right then can evaluate and/or trust what he or she reads without being part of "'the' community"--it's just the latest water cooler for the digirati. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From mrylander at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 12:31:29 2005 From: mrylander at gmail.com (Mike Rylander) Date: Thu Oct 13 12:31:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/12/05, Peter C. Gorman wrote: > If this is borne out by research, it might give pause to those who > digitize works in order to *decrease* use of the original (fragile, > rare, etc.) items. On the other hand, it would provide indirect > evidence that free electronic access is not an impediment to print > sales. While there isn't a great deal of research surrounding library circulation and purchasing vs. free online access, there is another market (for lack of a better term) where this has been studied, and which holds certain parallels to free vs. subscription based access to online materials: digital music, specifically the RIAA's claim that file sharing decreases sales. [1] describes an increase in sales of file sharers, and [2] describes an opposite effect. One thing to note about the studies is that they target significantly geographically and culturally different groups. I tend to place more credence in [1], as that study wasn't performed by the "victim." Once upon a time I worked for an online media company who's first product was a personalized music service, so I've given that particular issue quite a bit of thought. After considerable contemplation, and comparing it to the free digital access of library materials issue, I think the two have a couple basic user-principals in common: a) the preponderance of people (file sharers and library patrons) are lazy b) (in the case of U.S.) people have enough disposable time/income to allow their laziness What (a) means is that most people will not take the time to learn how to burn a downloaded song to a CD, or in the case of digital library resources, printing a copy or reading it on a monitor is more work than swinging by a library while they are out running errands. Because of (a), people will (b) be willing to purchase or check out a copy of something they start to read in a free online version. In the case of online music, they want the music the like with them everywhere they go, and will purchase a CD because they (a) don't want to make it themselves. Well, that's my $0.02 in any case. [1] http://news.com.com/2100-1023-898813.html [2] http://news.com.com/2100-1023-883761.html > > At 2:31 PM -0400 10/12/05, Patricia F Anderson wrote: > >This echoes anecdotal evidence from those who found putting up free > >copies online increased use and/or purchases of the print item. I am > >thinking, for example, of the UM Making of America project, in which > >circulation of the included items rose by several 100 percent after > >the items were made available over the Internet. I don't know if any > >articles were published about this trend, but if there were I'd love > >to see them. > > > >Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu > > -- > _______________________________ > Peter C. Gorman > Head, University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center > pgorman@library.wisc.edu > (608) 265-5291 > > Fiddle, n. An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's > tail on the entrails of a cat. [Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_] > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Mike Rylander mrylander@gmail.com GPLS -- PINES Development Database Developer http://open-ils.org From DobbsA at apsu.edu Thu Oct 13 12:43:00 2005 From: DobbsA at apsu.edu (Dobbs, Aaron) Date: Thu Oct 13 12:43:29 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: I suspect that the NYT example is a tad oversimplified? Prior to recent allegations, I suspect people felt that NYT content was authoritative because they assumed it was rigorously fact-checked prior to publication as the "paper of record" or whatever the phrase is/was that NYT uses as a self-description. Ergo, it was popular because it had the image of authority. So, which comes first: the authority image or the popularity? The NY Post is (er.. was?) popular, but I never got the feeling that it was all that authoritative. Ditto WaPo (imho). Bingo on the trust issue :) -Aaron :-)' "Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." -Robert Frost -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Dunck Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:16 AM To: Thomale, J Cc: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia I don't actually think this is a new phenomenon. Most people take pieces published in the NY Times at face value under the assumption that the paper is popular, has a good reputation, and is therefore trustworthy. Of course that's not always right. The web magnifies a gap between trust and scholarship which has always been there. We (individually) can't possible fact-check everything. Trust enters into it somewhere. The public has to trust that librarians are going to steer them straight, for example. ;-) _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From suekamm at mindspring.com Thu Oct 13 12:47:44 2005 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Thu Oct 13 12:48:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] effect of e-use on circulation [was: Authority + Wikipedia] Message-ID: <23040681.1129222064395.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I will have to review our reports, but since computer use within the building counts as a circulation, I'd expect that amount to be a good part of our statistics. We should also have reports on remote access to our databases. Those using our subscription databases from home or office must log in with a library card number. It's difficult to assess the effect of electronic database use as opposed to print (we still subscribe to the print editions of Reader's Guide and the New York and Los Angeles Times indexes). Your friendly CyberGoddess and Councilor-at-large, Sue Kamm Inglewood/Los Angeles, CA Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 Visit my home page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm email: suekamm [at] mindspring.com "What I wonder is, where are all the guys who just like to play baseball?" --Wes Parker, former Los Angeles Dodgers infielder From j.thomale at ttu.edu Thu Oct 13 13:05:49 2005 From: j.thomale at ttu.edu (Thomale, J) Date: Thu Oct 13 13:06:14 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia Message-ID: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> > But isn't this also the premise of the Citation Indexes? > Things that are cited more often must be more authoritative? > Not that their popularity makes them more > authoritative, but that being authoritative makes them popular. I think the assumption behind citation indexes is that the people doing the linking are themselves authoritative sources, so the citation index is therefore valid (which of course leads one to Mike's question, "what makes something authoritative?"). On the web, anybody can link to any source of information they wish and therefore boost its perceived authority. And because of this, the concept of authority is being turned upside down. Yes, it should be that "being authoritative makes [sources] popular," but that is being turned around in the wider online environment. > Getting away from the online world: which is more findable, the > radio report of the AP news article on the scientific study > summarized in JAMA, or the expensive medical journal article > that JAMA is summarizing? The problem that less authoritative > information is more findable is not new or online. You're right, of course--this isn't an "online only" issue. Nobody has time to seek out 100% authoritative sources to get their news for the day. Then we'd all be reporters. No, we have to make do with what's convenient for those situations. Barring those who wear tinfoil hats, we "trust" that the news media has some amount of authority to tell us about what's going on in the world. As Jeremy said in a later message, trust is a vital part of the whole authority issue. The web and the online world do exacerbate this problem in that they make publication so incredibly easy. The web is an infinitely larger and more complex information organism than the press by itself. These problems and issues aren't new, they're just magnified *very much* in the current networked environment. > The idea of making > information in general more findable, and trying different ways to > create more authoritative information sources, that's what's new. Yes--I fully agree with you. Jason Thomale Metadata Librarian Texas Tech University Libraries From jwylder at decatur.lib.il.us Thu Oct 13 13:06:52 2005 From: jwylder at decatur.lib.il.us (jwylder) Date: Thu Oct 13 13:08:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20051013161833.72AEC5703BE@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <001f01c5d018$821628d0$4100005a@dpl.decatur.lib.il.us> >whenever I hear references to "'the' community," I hold my wristwatch high. This may be the crux of the matter. When my nine-year-old daughter uses the Britannica for her report on dinosaurs, it's considered authoritative. When someone is working on her dissertation on brachiosaurid sauropods, it isn't. Highly specialized communities have their own standards for what is and isn't authoritative. Being popular *and* authoritative are probably incompatible in many situations, especially academic ones. John Wylder Head of Extension Division Decatur Public Library 130 N. Franklin St. Decatur, IL 62521 (217) 421-9751 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:18 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia > In 2003 I wrote an article for Searcher magazine proposing that we > need a "graphic equalizer" for search engines -- knobs and dials that > we can twist and turn to control how a search engine orders the hit > list. On my extreme-happiness wishlist would be if Google had a widget you could click to give priority to items selected by Librarians' Internet Index. (Sometimes people ask me about an LII toolbar, which until we improve how our search works would almost be self-defeating. "Why doesn't it work like Google!" Etc. Such things have existed but I'm tepid towards them... I think it's backwards... the little bird should hop on the hippo's back, not vice versa. Squish.) I was interviewed about Wikipedia some time ago by Open Source Radio, and I still feel burned by the interviewer, who had not revealed in advance that he was Wikipedia-gaga. Lots of mystical talk about Wikipedia, but whenever I hear references to "'the' community," I hold my wristwatch high. Have I used it? Of course. But until Wikipedia resolves the authority questions--particularly how you improve the chances (which is always what we are talking about with authority, never an absolute) that someone looking at the resource right then can evaluate and/or trust what he or she reads without being part of "'the' community"--it's just the latest water cooler for the digirati. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Thu Oct 13 13:34:43 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Thu Oct 13 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <434E9AB3.3020901@kcoyle.net> Thomale, J wrote: > >I think the assumption behind citation indexes is that the people doing >the linking are themselves authoritative sources, so the citation index >is therefore valid (which of course leads one to Mike's question, "what >makes something authoritative?"). On the web, anybody can link to any >source of information they wish and therefore boost its perceived >authority. > > So there's an element in this discussion of the differences between popular culture and academic culture? In an academic environment, linking is authority; in a popular environment, linking is popularity. Both are good measures for their target audience. But what is the web -- is it academic, or is it popular? One of the big problems with the web, IMO, is that it is a huge, undifferentiated information space, mixing popular, academic, goof-ball, commercial, religious, not to mention all age groups. A search on Google is more a measure of the current users of the Internet than of the information . Type in "python" and the top result is the Python language home page. But maybe I'm a 12-year-old interested in snakes. Monty Python shows up long before any reptiles do. And in the first 10 pages, the only mention of a snake is "*Python* Bursts After Trying to Eat Gator - Yahoo! News ". The net, and those who index it, treat information like it's one big blob, and users are just a single, big carbon-based mass. Why do we have libraries, and not a single Library? Because "all the information in the world" isn't a useful set. kc p.s. And before you answer, yes I know that "pythons" gets the snakes, but I consider that an accident of our use of language, and not one that all users will be aware of. -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From JAdams at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us Thu Oct 13 14:22:51 2005 From: JAdams at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us (Adams, Jason) Date: Thu Oct 13 14:23:16 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations Message-ID: <52D1E8A877040744B1AA562F4AD9192B10EF7AAE@mail.co.washoe.nv.us> Neat idea!! The only thing I can think of at the moment is to convert the PowerPoint presentations to video (avi or mpeg), and then you can add in other video segments, place them all in a playlist (using most any media player) which will automatically play (and even randomly shuffle) each segment. Hopefully you have a decent PC that can handle it (most now-a-days can). Good luck in this! Please share any info you gather that hasn't already been posted to the list. Hopefully there's an easier way to shuffle PowerPoint and video content automatically. Jason Adams, Library Assistant III Washoe County Library System (Reno) -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robin Boulton Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:20 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) (Apologies for cross-posting) - Hi All, We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint presentation to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get sick of looking at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight came the recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member to change the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be able to switch automatically from one piece of content to another, probably at pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to know what tools, hardware or software, might be available for such a purpose, and which are the best (or worst!). TIA for any suggestions or links. Robin Boulton Robin Boulton rboulton@linc.lib.il.us IT Manager (630) 584 0076 x 258 St. Charles Public Library District Cell: (630) 918 8738 St. Charles, IL 60174 http://www.stcharleslibrary.org/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From leo at leoklein.com Thu Oct 13 14:50:57 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Thu Oct 13 14:51:01 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations In-Reply-To: <52D1E8A877040744B1AA562F4AD9192B10EF7AAE@mail.co.washoe.nv.us> References: <52D1E8A877040744B1AA562F4AD9192B10EF7AAE@mail.co.washoe.nv.us> Message-ID: <434EAC91.5040305@leoklein.com> Hi, Just in case you haven't yet found that FTE to flip the PowerPoint Presention every 5 minutes, one durn low-tech solution would be to simply save out the slides as jpg's or gifs, embed them in an html page and put an auto-redirect in the header like this: The above tag would change to "nextPagePlease.html" after 60 seconds. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robin Boulton > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:20 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) > > > (Apologies for cross-posting) - > > Hi All, > > We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our > Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream > some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious > goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to > successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint presentation > to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get sick of looking > at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight came the > recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member to change > the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be able to switch > automatically from one piece of content to another, probably at > pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has > solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to know what tools, > hardware or software, might be available for such a purpose, and which > are the best (or worst!). > > TIA for any suggestions or links. > Robin Boulton > > > From ndgmtlcd at yahoo.com Thu Oct 13 15:24:26 2005 From: ndgmtlcd at yahoo.com (Alain D. M. G. Vaillancourt) Date: Thu Oct 13 15:24:31 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20051013153841.6E79F43F99@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051013192427.17240.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> Hello! One of the features of Wikipedia no one has mentioned yet is that for a great many articles it flaunts its lack of authprity or its very low level of authority. Not every article in Wikipedia has a discussion page, and not all discussion pages are equally endowed with interesting discussions between contributors, but many have them. That's when you realise just how totally clueless or how relatively informed those who wrote that particular article are. Alain Vaillancourt __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From chuck at mutualaid.org Thu Oct 13 16:50:41 2005 From: chuck at mutualaid.org (Chuck0) Date: Thu Oct 13 16:47:38 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20051013192427.17240.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051013192427.17240.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434EC8A1.1010403@mutualaid.org> It's really good to see all of the interesting points being made about authority, accuracy and Wikipedia. I think that we librarians should look at this situation as a "teachable moment." The door is open wide for us to educate the public about "authority", accuracy, and what makes a good reference tool. I have a love-hate relationship with Wikipedia. I love its openness and democracy, even if that is currently being threatened by small-minded uber-volunteers who "guard" pages on certain topics. Wikipedia is a much more valuable and interesting encyclopedia than the standard works. It entertains--I've enjoyed the entries on pop culture, "jumping the shark," and the logical fallacies. It's useful for reference--just a few minutes ago I looked up the entry on "ISBN" numbers because I need to get a prefix for my new press. Wikipedia can be accurate, but it really could use a new form of "authority" to improve more of its content. For example, take the entry on "anarchism". That entry has evolved into a pretty good overview of the topic and has spawned a dozen or so supplemental pages. Like all controversial topics, this one has generated disagreements, but there is one that has to be resolved by, I hate to say this, some form of "authority." The problem involves a small group of wingnuts who persist in defacing the entry on "anarchism" with sections on "anarcho-capitalism". If you don't understand why this is a problem, just think of "anarcho-capitalism" as being an oxymoron, kind of like being "half-pregnant" or the existence of a "Jweish pope". Anarchism has always opposed capitalism and the state. Capitalism can't exist without the state, hence two reasons why "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron. I don't have a problem with the existence of a page on "anarcho-capitalism," but it offends me that these nuts are trying to normalize their nonsense on the page about anarchism. Of course, regular printed reference materials aren't immune from this kind of intellectual sloppiness. Take the second edition of The Oxford Companion to Politics of the World edited by Joel Krieger. This weighty reference tome includes an entry on "anarchism" written by Robert Paul Wolff, who I believe is an American Libertarian. The entry includes a few accurate sentences about historical anarchism, but nothing about contemporary anarchism and it mixes in American libertarianism as being part of anarchism. This is kind of like letting Bill O'Reilly write an entry on "liberalism". He would probably get a few things right, but the rest of the entry would reflect his own prejudices and agenda. C. From pgorman at library.wisc.edu Thu Oct 13 17:02:23 2005 From: pgorman at library.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Thu Oct 13 17:02:31 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Position reposting: University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center Message-ID: Hello, This is a revision and reposting of a previously announced position opening. Working title: Digital Library Systems Analyst The University of Wisconsin-Madison Libraries seek a creative, experienced, team-oriented professional to participate in the design, development, and implementation of digital library infrastructure and services for the University of Wisconsin Digital Collections. Reporting to the Head of the UW Digital Collections Center (UWDCC) and working with UWDCC and other library staff and faculty, the successful candidate will be responsible for the technical infrastructure for processing and hosting text-based digital library resources such as Electronic Facsimilies, TEI editions, and EAD finding aids, and will provide leadership in planning strategies to integrate these resources with other digital library components and services. This position will also collaborate in the development of metadata standards and workflow processes, plan and activities migration strategies for digital library content as technologies mature and new standards become available, and help to create or acquire innovative user interfaces providing access to digital resources. The UWDCC creates digital resources for inclusion in the University of Wisconsin Digital Collections (http://uwdc.library.wisc.edu/), a UW System-wide Digital Library with over one millions pages of text, images, audio, and other multimedia content. It also provides technical architecture, hosting, user interface design, outreach, and consultation in the creation, processing, and use of digital content. In achievement and prestige, the University of Wisconsin-Madison has long been recognized as one of America's great universities. A public, land-grant institution, UW-Madison offers a complete spectrum of liberal arts studies, professional programs, and student activities. Located in Madison, the campus spreads out along Lake Mandate, encompassing wooded hills, friendly shores, and lively city streets. Madison--the state's capital city with a population of 208,000--offers the perfect combination of natural beauty, stimulating cultural offerings, outdoor recreation, distinctive restaurants, unique shops, and vibrant nightlife. The city tops many "best" lists, including: *Best City in the Nation for Business and Careers, Forbes, 2004 *Best College Sports Town, Sports Illustrated on Campus, 2003 *Best Places to Live and Work, BestJobsUSA.com, 2003 *Best Small City for Creativity, Washington Monthly, 2002 The university's location in south central Wisconsin makes for convenient access to Milwaukee (80 miles), Chicago (150 miles), and Minneapolis (270 miles). Daily buses serve all three cities. A period of evaluation will be required Degree and area of specialization: - Bachelor's Degree required. MLS or equivalent degree from a program accredited by the American Library Association is desired. Minimum number of years and type of relevant work experience: REQUIRED - Experience working in a production digital collection environment - Demonstrated knowledge of SGML/XML and associated standards such as XSLT, XPath, and XML Schema - Demonstrated knowledge of current digital collection architectures, platforms, and products - Experience and skill in data modeling and database design - Excellent oral and written communication skills - Ability to work effectively both independently and on group projects with both technical and non-technical staff - Demonstrated project leadership skills - Flexibility in adapting to changing priorities DESIRED: * Knowledge of digital library content and metadata standards such as TEI, EAD, METS, MODS, Dublin Core * Experience processing TEI and EAD encoded data * Experience programing in language such as Perl, Java, or Python * Experience in Schema/DTD creation * Experience in Web server administration * Experience with persistent identifier schemes such as URN, Handle, or PURL Principal duties: ************************* Appointment type: Academic Staff Department(s): LIBR/LIBR TECH GROUP Full time salary rate: Negotiable, depending on qualifications. Minimum $37,731 ANNUAL (12 months) Term: This is a renewable appointment. Appointment percent: 100% Anticipated begin date: NOVEMBER 13, 2005 Number of positions: 1 TO INSURE CONSIDERATION Application must be received by: NOVEMBER 08, 2005 HOW TO APPLY: Send cover letter, resume, and contact information for three references. Send resume and cover letter referring to Position Vacancy Listing #51754 to SANDRA GUTHRIE Phone: 608-262-8190 365 Memorial Library TTY: 608-263-2473 728 State St Fax: N/A Madison WI 53706-1418 Email: sguthrie@library.wisc.edu NOTE: Unless confidentiality is requested in writing, information regarding the names of applicants must be released upon request. Finalists cannot be guaranteed confidentiality. UW-Madison is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. We promote excellence through diversity and encourage all qualified individuals to apply. -- _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman Head, University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center pgorman@library.wisc.edu (608) 265-5291 Fiddle, n. An instrument to tickle human ears by friction of a horse's tail on the entrails of a cat. [Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_] From TEdelblute at anaheim.net Thu Oct 13 17:49:11 2005 From: TEdelblute at anaheim.net (Thomas Edelblute) Date: Thu Oct 13 17:47:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations Message-ID: How about using the scheduled tasks feature in the Windows Control Panel. You should be able to create a series of batch files that would say at this hour run this program with X parameters. Then put those batch files into scheduled tasks. Thomas Edelblute Anaheim Public Library -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Leo Robert Klein Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:51 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations Hi, Just in case you haven't yet found that FTE to flip the PowerPoint Presention every 5 minutes, one durn low-tech solution would be to simply save out the slides as jpg's or gifs, embed them in an html page and put an auto-redirect in the header like this: The above tag would change to "nextPagePlease.html" after 60 seconds. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robin Boulton > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:20 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) > > > (Apologies for cross-posting) - > > Hi All, > > We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our > Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream > some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious > goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to > successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint > presentation to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get > sick of looking at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight > came the recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member > to change the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be > able to switch automatically from one piece of content to another, > probably at pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from > anyone who has solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to > know what tools, hardware or software, might be available for such a > purpose, and which are the best (or worst!). > > TIA for any suggestions or links. > Robin Boulton > > > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, forwarding, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message immediately. Thank you. From mike at indexdata.com Thu Oct 13 18:05:07 2005 From: mike at indexdata.com (mike@indexdata.com) Date: Thu Oct 13 20:13:07 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> (j.thomale@ttu.edu) References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> Message-ID: <20051013220507.4FD5F4417F@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:05:49 -0500 > From: "Thomale, J" > > The web and the online world do exacerbate this problem [of knowing > which resources are authoritative] in that they make publication so > incredibly easy. The web is an infinitely larger and more complex > information organism than the press by itself. These problems and > issues aren't new, they're just magnified *very much* in the current > networked environment. This is true, but I don't think it's a bad thing. Historically, publishers have fulfilled two function which are conceptually quite separate: one function is simply that of dissemination. The other is quality filtering. Until ten years ago, pretty much the only way for anyone to get anything published was by going through a publisher, and publishers would on the whole reject candidate publications that couldn't meet quality requirements. Fast forward ten years, and the problem of dissemination is a solved one. Anyone can easily publish their writings. (The significance of blogging is only that it finally fulfils the "easy publishing" promise that was made by the early web, but which wasn't fufilled for a long time because of the technical difficulties of dealing with HTML and FTP.) Some publishers are trying to hang on to their historical dissemination role by creating artificial scarcity -- limiting access to materials. In my view, that strategy is doomed in the long and medium term, and probably even in the short term -- certainly for academic publishing. Authors just care too much about getting their stuff out there to be limited by seemingly arbitrary restrictions imposed by publishers. So that leaves only one role for publishers: quality filtering. While anyone can publish their ideas in a blog, it's much harder to get your ideas into Acta Palaeontologica Polonica. You need to get past a rigorous quality filter: the editors' initial vetting, then peer-review. For this reason, a publication in APP is, quite rightly, accorded more respect, considered to be more authoritative, than one in a blog. What's interesting in this case is that APP actually disseminates its articles in exactly the same way as a blogger: by open access on the web (http://app.pan.pl/) So the publisher in this instance is contributing nothing at all to the process of dissemination -- it's just putting articles on its web-site that could much more easily put up on the author's own Geocities web-site. What the publisher offers, paradoxically, is precisely a set of _barriers_ to dissemination: the value it adds is that the articles that do get disseminated, with the APP mark on them, are stamped as being high quality(*). So what we find in the Internet age is that the role of publishers has turned through 180 degrees. Whereas once their primary role was to provide a way for writings to be disseminated, now their primary role is to _prevent_ writings from being disseminated -- except for the few that are judged worthy of dissemination. In the next few years, we'll see more and more authors move towards open-access journals (because they want their work to be findable and obtainable), and the publishers that have been relying on their dissemination role to provide profits will fail. Those that have already realised that their main role is now in quality-filtering will be better positioned to survive the transition into the new world. Finally: I realise that all of this applies much more to academic articles than to books. For the former, a downloaded PDF is usually 95% as good as an original copy or reprint; for the latter, the book itself is a desirable object: no-one wants to download _Harry Potter and the Hypertrophied Caudal Pleurocoels_ and print it out, they'd rather have the actual book. So in that medium, publishers will continue to have a role as the makers of nice physical objects. Although print-on-demand may erode that role. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "`start' must be between 1 and approximately 65535" -- Microsoft Visual Basic documentation for the InStr() function. (*) Alert readers may have guessed that I've had a submission rejected by Acta Palaeontologica Polonica, and not yet got over it :-) From jdunck at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 20:35:15 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Thu Oct 13 20:35:18 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Authority + Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20051013220507.4FD5F4417F@localhost.localdomain> References: <8A4A1AC405A318409439CE7542F85E654F5825@BRONTES.net.ttu.edu> <20051013220507.4FD5F4417F@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510131735uf90d742t895a3aa28605f434@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/05, mike@indexdata.com wrote: > the book > itself is a desirable object: no-one wants to download _Harry Potter > and the Hypertrophied Caudal Pleurocoels_ and print it out, they'd > rather have the actual book. Heard of the bookmobile? http://www.archive.org/texts/bookmobile.php From mconroy at ohionet.org Fri Oct 14 09:28:01 2005 From: mconroy at ohionet.org (Mary Conroy) Date: Fri Oct 14 09:26:10 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] OHIONET Position Announcement- Technology Specialist - Web Development Message-ID: <359A5EE26F56A3408C8AEC5A0DCE545101480F7A@ohn1.internal.org> -------------- Technology Specialist - Web Development and Design OHIONET (Columbus, Ohio) OHIONET, a not-for-profit library membership organization, seeks a technology specialist to develop and maintain its website, intranet and other web-based services using current standards and technologies. Principal responsibilites include: developing and maintaining all aspects of OHIONET's website and web-based services; designing and creating graphics for OHIONET website and other publications; conducting training and consultation for OHIONET and its members in areas related to web development and design; providing quality service and support to OHIONET staff and its members. Qualification/Requirements: Masters degree in Library Science or equivalent education/work experience required; experience in web site development and design and graphics creation and manipulation required (Dreamweaver and Adobe PhotoShop preferred); experience using web markup languages, server-side scripting technologies and web stylesheet languages required (PHP preferred); proficiency in using and maintaining web server and relational database management system required (Microsoft IIS and MySQL preferred); knowledge of web design and accessibility standards and usability principles required. Compensation: Salary dependent on qualifications (minimum $35,000.00). OHIONET also provides excellent benefits including generous healthcare plan, 20 vacation days, 11 holidays, 12 days sick leave, TIAA-CREF retirement plan. Application: Qualified candidates are encouraged to submit resume, cover letter and contact information for three professional references to: Matt Polcyn Director Technology Services OHIONET 1500 W Lane Ave Columbus, OH 43221 mattp@ohionet.org Applications received by Friday, October 28, 2005 will be given first consideration. From cshumar at munpl.org Fri Oct 14 09:34:15 2005 From: cshumar at munpl.org (Charles Shumar) Date: Fri Oct 14 09:34:22 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations Message-ID: Or - and even more lo-tech solution would be to output the slides as .jpg s like you said - and then burn them to a CD rom - and get a cheap-o dvd player with a photo/slideshow setting and let it run off of that . . . . >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Leo >>>Robert Klein >>>Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:51 AM >>>To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>Subject: Re: [Web4lib] LCD TV presentations >>>Just in case you haven't yet found that FTE to flip the PowerPoint >>>Presention every 5 minutes, one durn low-tech solution would be to >>>simply save out the slides as jpg's or gifs, embed them in >>>an html page >>>and put an auto-redirect in the header like this: >>> >>> >>>The above tag would change to "nextPagePlease.html" after 60 seconds. >>> >>>LEO >>> >>>-- ------------- >>>Leo Robert Klein >>>www.leoklein.com >>> From marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com Fri Oct 14 17:37:44 2005 From: marionsumerianlibrarian at yahoo.com (Marion Sumerianlibrarian) Date: Fri Oct 14 17:37:47 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] archived, accessible, and awaiting your comments Message-ID: <20051014213744.16448.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Talk" You're a brave man they tell me. I'm not. Courage has never been my quality. Only I thought it disproportionate so to degrade myself as others did. No foundations trembled. My voice no more than laughed at pompous falsity; I did no more than write, never denounced, I left out nothing I had thought about, defended who deserved it, put a brand on the untalented, the ersatz writers (doing what anyhow had to be done). And now they press to tell me that I'm brave. How sharply our children will be ashamed taking at last their vengeance for these horrors remembering how in so strange a time common integrity could look like courage. -- Yevgeny Yevtushenko Translated by Robin Milner-Galland and Peter Levi. this poem is archived, accessible, and awaiting your comments at http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/1777.html __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From umassdlcc at umassd.edu Sun Oct 16 14:06:57 2005 From: umassdlcc at umassd.edu (Charlie McNeil) Date: Sun Oct 16 16:13:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? Message-ID: <20051016180658.6F89C3284C0@mail.umassd.edu> All - We are about to undertake a library web redesign. Over time we have seen people discuss uses of MyLibrary-like applications to provide better user-centered library services. Some focus on the MY part and allow users to build there own resource pages; some focus on being able to push content in context such as reserve reading lists and subject guides to courses in an LMS such as WebCT. User centered and reusability/adaptability seem to be the key features. What we are wondering is who is actually using these applications and to what purposes? Is it just a few with larger tech staffs or are there many that just do it with little fanfare. We have a small systems staff, but we too want to create an environment that is user-centered and enables the user to get their work done in the best way possible. We have such a mix of systems that there is an obvious need to somehow pull it all together better. For example, like many others, we have a library website, an OPAC (Endeavor), an eReserve system (Docutek), SerialsSolutions for journal management, consortia Virtual catalogs, RefWorks and Ezproxy authentication. We are also about to implement metasearch and OpenURL resolver systems (Endeavor). How do we make it all work together as whole and how do we prepare for interfacing our systems with others such as WebCT or a university portal. >From the outside, it appears that a MyLibrary-like application provides a toolbox that enables both library users and library staff a means to make better sense and better use of all that our library can provide. Do others feel that way? Sorry for the wordiness, high anxiety lessens my efficiency. - charlie charlie mcneil systems & digital services librarian umass dartmouth library (508) 999-8680 cmcneil@umassd.edu From dmcmorris at sals.edu Mon Oct 17 04:51:03 2005 From: dmcmorris at sals.edu (McMorris,Don) Date: Mon Oct 17 04:51:05 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Television displays [WAS: (no subject)] References: Message-ID: Recently, I was flipping through channels on the cable television, and noticed something unusual on an educational access channel. It was the screen of a Windows 2000 computer, and it was rebooting. Being a computer nerd, I sat there and watch their computer reboot. I found out that they use a software called Infochannel from SCALA. Although I have no experience with the actual software, once it was running, there was no indication what software was being used. It was just a plain ol' infomercial. I imagine you just load a certain type of video file into the software, and it will play them according to a schedule you set. I have no idea what a software like this runs. But, I'm hoping that the company (SCALA) would be lenient in pricing for you, being it is only for one television and its for a public library. Sorry I have no more specifics about this software. Hope this helps. --Don ------------------------ "Proudly serving the 964 residents of the Village of Salem, NY" Donald J McMorris Jr. Assistant Librarian Bancroft Public Library 181 South Main St PO Box 515 Salem, NY 12865 Phone/Fax: (518) 854-7463 www.slibrary.org XIZ / SALS-SLM www.slibrary.org/staff/don.mcmorris/blog/ ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Robin Boulton Sent: Tue 10/11/2005 11:19 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] (no subject) (Apologies for cross-posting) - Hi All, We just purchased a 27" LCD TV screen which we intend to use in our Young Adult area to announce programs, show book jackets, maybe stream some video from time to time - in other words we have some ambitious goals for using it to help draw in young patrons. I've been able to successfully connect to it remotely and cause a PowerPoint presentation to run, which is fine for about 10 minutes until you get sick of looking at the same 32 slides over and over. With this insight came the recognition that unless we dedicate a full-time staff member to change the programming every few minutes, we need some way to be able to switch automatically from one piece of content to another, probably at pre-determined intervals. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has solved a similar problem Specifically I would like to know what tools, hardware or software, might be available for such a purpose, and which are the best (or worst!). TIA for any suggestions or links. Robin Boulton Robin Boulton rboulton@linc.lib.il.us IT Manager (630) 584 0076 x 258 St. Charles Public Library District Cell: (630) 918 8738 St. Charles, IL 60174 http://www.stcharleslibrary.org/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From dmcmorris at sals.edu Mon Oct 17 05:28:33 2005 From: dmcmorris at sals.edu (McMorris,Don) Date: Mon Oct 17 05:29:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question References: Message-ID: I have never done this, but in theory it should work. I would think that you could create 1 dynamic page and a DB table. The 1 page would then be copied to the old file locations. Of course, this would mean 1000 extra files hanging around, but I would hope it would lessen the load on the Apache server (you wouldn't have the 1000 extra entries in the apache conf, effectively a flatfile database of apache's settings). The page would simply look at its own location (IE: the URL), and use this to query the DB table. The query will return theURL, atwhichtime the dynamic page will create the 301 Moved header and pass it on to the browser. If the language you use to create the page is unable to directly make the headers, it could simply use the META Refresh command (). Of course, the page could use some text saying "The page you are trying to access has been moved to here". This way, if redirects are off in the browser, they have the link. The only other option I can think of is perhaps something in .htaccess files... Perhaps you can do something there. --Don ------------------------ "Proudly serving the 964 residents of the Village of Salem, NY" Donald J McMorris Jr. Assistant Librarian Bancroft Public Library 181 South Main St PO Box 515 Salem, NY 12865 Phone/Fax: (518) 854-7463 www.slibrary.org XIZ / SALS-SLM www.slibrary.org/staff/don.mcmorris/blog/ ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of Bill Erickson Sent: Wed 10/12/2005 4:42 PM To: Vishwam Annam Cc: WEB4LIB Subject: Re: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question If you can define the pages you want to redirect in the form of regular expressions, the Apache RedirectMatch directive might be the thing you need. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#redirectmatch On 10/12/05, Vishwam Annam wrote: > > Dear Web4 Lib members, > > We use 301 redirects to redirect an old webpage to the new one. We had > static html pages for our databases, and recently made all of them > database driven. Due to this, I ended up having around 1,000 or so.. > changed URLs, which needed redirects. If I add all these 1,000 to the > httd.config file, then the file size gets huge and it can significatly > impacts the server load. > > I was wondering, has any one across the similar problem, if so how you > hndled this? I am sure, we could create "page moved" pages for these > links, but that can be tediuous work. > > Thanks for any assitance, > > Vishwam > > Vishwam Annam > Web Developer > 120 Paul Laurence Dunbar Library > 3640 Colonel Glenn Hwy. > Dayton, Oh 45435 > Office: 937-775-3262 > FAX 937-775-2356 > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Bill Erickson PINES Systems Developer Georgia Public Library Service billserickson@gmail.com http://open-ils.org _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Oct 17 08:54:41 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Mon Oct 17 08:54:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] 301 Redirects question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43539F11.5040200@ohiolink.edu> McMorris,Don wrote: > > If the language you use to create the page is unable to directly make > the headers, it could simply use the META Refresh command ( EQUIV="Refresh" content="0;URL=$NewURL">). Hosing your users' back buttons and failing to communicate with bots, link checkers, and bookmark updaters is not the way to go. If the technique you're using can't send HTTP headers, then use any of the umpteen other techniques that can. Aside to Vishwam: Can you create a script that doesn't change the request URIs? Instead of /directory/subdirectory/file.html, use /script/path_info/parameter.html: the user never needs to know what a path like /foo/bar/baz.html really maps to on your system. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From Walt.Crawford at rlg.org Mon Oct 17 10:29:53 2005 From: Walt.Crawford at rlg.org (Walt.Crawford@rlg.org) Date: Mon Oct 17 10:30:08 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Fw: Cites & Insights 5:12 available Message-ID: Cites & Insights 5:12 (November 2005) is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ5i12.pdf The 22-page issue is PDF as usual; each essay is also available in HTML from the home page, http://cites.boisestate.edu/ This issue includes: * Bibs & Blather - five brief essays * Net Media Perspective: Analogies, Gatekeepers and Blogging * The Library Stuff - five cited articles and reports * Library Access to Scholarship * Interesting & Peculiar Products - eleven of them * The Good Stuff - four cited articles. For more detailed contents (and two bits of blather that didn't make the cut), see Walt at Random, http://walt.lishost.org From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Oct 17 10:47:49 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Mon Oct 17 10:47:52 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Milllennials Message-ID: There's an interesting blurb in The Chronicle of Higher Education's information technology "conference notebook". It mentions a paper presented by Sonia Livingstone at the recent Association of Internet Researchers conference. The blurb leads off by saying "Colleges should not assume that the latest generation of students is made up of techno-wizards, a British scholar told a gathering of Internet researchers here." Online access requires a subscription: http://chronicle.com/weekly/v52/i09/09a04201.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Oct 17 11:09:42 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:09:47 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Purdue creates endowed chair in information literacy Message-ID: A former Ford Motor Company executive has contributed $2.5 million to Purdue University to establish an endowed chair in information literacy. The chair will be named for the donor, W. Wayne Booker. Kind of interesting that a library donor would be named "Booker". :-) For more info (Chronicle of Higher Education subscription required): http://chronicle.com/weekly/v52/i09/09a03902.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From jaf30 at cornell.edu Mon Oct 17 11:41:29 2005 From: jaf30 at cornell.edu (John Fereira) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:41:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? In-Reply-To: <20051016180658.6F89C3284C0@mail.umassd.edu> References: <20051016180658.6F89C3284C0@mail.umassd.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051017112430.0277c960@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> At 02:06 PM 10/16/2005, Charlie McNeil wrote: >All - > > > >We are about to undertake a library web redesign. Over time we have seen >people discuss uses of MyLibrary-like applications to provide better >user-centered library services. Some focus on the MY part and allow users to >build there own resource pages; some focus on being able to push content in >context such as reserve reading lists and subject guides to courses in an >LMS such as WebCT. User centered and reusability/adaptability seem to be the >key features. Greetings, About five years ago I was one of two developer that created a MyLibrary system here at Cornell. In our case, we separated the MyLibrary system into a set of services, initially just a virtual bookmark manager with linking into the networked resources (i.e. online databases, journals) and a Current Awareness service which provided patrons a list of titles based on subject criteria via email. We subsequently added a Table of Contents service (which aggregates feeds from multiple vendors and provides the TOC in multiple formats (i.e. text, html, endnote, refworks). Just prior to the release of that system the other programmer left the library so I've had responsibility for all of the services ever since. All that said, if I were to create a new MyLibrary system I would first look at the work that Eric Lease Morgan did with his open source version (http://dewey.library.nd.edu/mylibrary/). >What we are wondering is who is actually using these applications and to >what purposes? Is it just a few with larger tech staffs or are there many >that just do it with little fanfare. We have a small systems staff, but we >too want to create an environment that is user-centered and enables the user >to get their work done in the best way possible. We've done some user statistics collection and found that the services are mostly used by faculty, staff, and graduate students. >We have such a mix of systems that there is an obvious need to somehow pull >it all together better. For example, like many others, we have a library >website, an OPAC (Endeavor), an eReserve system (Docutek), SerialsSolutions >for journal management, consortia Virtual catalogs, RefWorks and Ezproxy >authentication. We are also about to implement metasearch and OpenURL >resolver systems (Endeavor). How do we make it all work together as whole >and how do we prepare for interfacing our systems with others such as WebCT >or a university portal. While there are frameworks that will help you're likely going to have to do a lot of "customization" work to tie all your different applications together. One approach might be to use something like uPortal (http://www.uportal.org) which will provide a framework for aggregating your content as a collection of portlets, each of which will provide a different service. The portal can take care of authentication/authorization (single sign-on) and provide a common user interface to each of the services. You might try putting both MyLibrary and uPortal in a google search to see some approaches that have been discussed, including a presentation that Eric and I collaborated on in 2003 at a LITA conference. for the wordiness, high anxiety lessens my efficiency. From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Oct 17 11:42:37 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:42:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Interesting Google Print article in Slate Message-ID: By Tim Wu, an associate professor at the University of Virginia Law School who teaches intellectual property: Leggo my ego: GooglePrint and the other culture war. Slate magazine, October 17, 2005. http://slate.msn.com/id/2128094/ "At stake are two different visions of what might best promote authorship in this country. One side trumpets the culture of authorial exposure, the other urges the culture of authorial control. The relevant questions, respectively, are: Do we think the law should help authors maximize their control over their work? Or are authors best served by exposure-making it easier to find their work?" Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From morville at semanticstudios.com Mon Oct 17 11:57:54 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:58:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Interesting Google Print article in Slate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Interesting article! Tim O'Reilly, the publisher, recently wrote a NY Times Op Ed piece on this subject... http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2005/09/ny_times_op_ed_on_authors_guil.htm l ...that begins with the following: "AUTHORS struggle, mostly in vain, against their fated obscurity. According to Nielsen Bookscan, which tracks sales from major booksellers, only 2 percent of the 1.2 million unique titles sold in 2004 had sales of more than 5,000 copies. Against this backdrop, the recent Authors Guild suit against the Google Library Project is poignantly wrongheaded." I agree with Tim. I also think Larry Lessig's perspective is worth reviewing: http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/003140.shtml Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sloan, Bernie Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:43 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Interesting Google Print article in Slate By Tim Wu, an associate professor at the University of Virginia Law School who teaches intellectual property: Leggo my ego: GooglePrint and the other culture war. Slate magazine, October 17, 2005. http://slate.msn.com/id/2128094/ "At stake are two different visions of what might best promote authorship in this country. One side trumpets the culture of authorial exposure, the other urges the culture of authorial control. The relevant questions, respectively, are: Do we think the law should help authors maximize their control over their work? Or are authors best served by exposure-making it easier to find their work?" Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From lbell927 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 17 20:23:56 2005 From: lbell927 at yahoo.com (Lori Bell) Date: Mon Oct 17 20:23:59 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web conferencing online orientation sessions Message-ID: <20051018002356.72821.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Greetings! Interested in inexpensive but excellent web conferencing options to offer programs, training and more for your staff and customers? OPAL Coordinator Tom Peters has scheduled two OPAL orientation sessions this week you are invited to attend. They last one hour and will give you the basics on how to use the TC Conferencing software to have an online meeting or program. If these times do not work for you, contact Tom at tapinformation@yahoo.com or me and we will set up something else. To participate, all you need is an Internet connection, sound card and speakers. Go to http://67.19.231.218/v4/login.asp?r=67955673&p=0 type your name and click enter to go into the online room. If you would like a trial room, contact Tom or me and we can set one up for you. You can use these rooms for meetings, online training sessions, discussion groups, to create online tutorials, and more. You can record sessions and make them available on the web or as a podcast. If you have any questions, please contact us. Hope to see you at one of these orientations. Tuesday, October 18, 2005 beginning at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 1:00 Central, noon Mountain, 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and 6:00 p.m. GMT: Introduction to OPAL and tcConference version 4 for Moderators If you are (or soon will become) a moderator of OPAL events and want to learn more about how to use version 4 of tcConference software for OPAL events, this session is for you. Numerous tips and techniques for customizing and optimizing the OPAL online experience will be shared. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Thursday, October 20, 2005 beginning at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 1:00 Central, noon Mountain, 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and 6:00 p.m. GMT: Introduction to OPAL and tcConference version 4 for Moderators If you are (or soon will become) a moderator of OPAL events and want to learn more about how to use version 4 of tcConference software for OPAL events, this session is for you. Numerous tips and techniques for customizing and optimizing the OPAL online experience will be shared. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From umassdlcc at umassd.edu Mon Oct 17 23:27:27 2005 From: umassdlcc at umassd.edu (Charlie McNeil) Date: Mon Oct 17 23:27:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051017112430.0277c960@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20051018032728.49A21328614@mail.umassd.edu> John - Thanks much for the informative reply. We've setup a test MyLibrary configuration and Eric has been very kind in answering some of our questions. I thought I had found most every article/presentation on MyLibrary, but I had somehow missed your presentation and the accompanying PDF. Just from the outside, it "looks" like many libraries are using some sort of database-based website. It's just hard to tell how many are MyLibrary-like in their approach. Others are CMS-based, but that too is hard to tell (we've looked at quite a few - Mambo/joomla and Drupal the latest). I would guess a few are a mix of CMS and MyLibrary - wish I knew which ;-) uPortal seems like another step up in capability and technical expertise needed to implement. Dunno. Will explore further. Many thanks for the reply! It really is much appreciated. - Charlie -----Original Message----- From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30@cornell.edu] Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:41 AM To: UMassDLCC@umassd.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? At 02:06 PM 10/16/2005, Charlie McNeil wrote: >All - > > > >We are about to undertake a library web redesign. Over time we have seen >people discuss uses of MyLibrary-like applications to provide better >user-centered library services. Some focus on the MY part and allow users to >build there own resource pages; some focus on being able to push content in >context such as reserve reading lists and subject guides to courses in an >LMS such as WebCT. User centered and reusability/adaptability seem to be the >key features. Greetings, About five years ago I was one of two developer that created a MyLibrary system here at Cornell. In our case, we separated the MyLibrary system into a set of services, initially just a virtual bookmark manager with linking into the networked resources (i.e. online databases, journals) and a Current Awareness service which provided patrons a list of titles based on subject criteria via email. We subsequently added a Table of Contents service (which aggregates feeds from multiple vendors and provides the TOC in multiple formats (i.e. text, html, endnote, refworks). Just prior to the release of that system the other programmer left the library so I've had responsibility for all of the services ever since. All that said, if I were to create a new MyLibrary system I would first look at the work that Eric Lease Morgan did with his open source version (http://dewey.library.nd.edu/mylibrary/). >What we are wondering is who is actually using these applications and to >what purposes? Is it just a few with larger tech staffs or are there many >that just do it with little fanfare. We have a small systems staff, but we >too want to create an environment that is user-centered and enables the user >to get their work done in the best way possible. We've done some user statistics collection and found that the services are mostly used by faculty, staff, and graduate students. >We have such a mix of systems that there is an obvious need to somehow pull >it all together better. For example, like many others, we have a library >website, an OPAC (Endeavor), an eReserve system (Docutek), SerialsSolutions >for journal management, consortia Virtual catalogs, RefWorks and Ezproxy >authentication. We are also about to implement metasearch and OpenURL >resolver systems (Endeavor). How do we make it all work together as whole >and how do we prepare for interfacing our systems with others such as WebCT >or a university portal. While there are frameworks that will help you're likely going to have to do a lot of "customization" work to tie all your different applications together. One approach might be to use something like uPortal (http://www.uportal.org) which will provide a framework for aggregating your content as a collection of portlets, each of which will provide a different service. The portal can take care of authentication/authorization (single sign-on) and provide a common user interface to each of the services. You might try putting both MyLibrary and uPortal in a google search to see some approaches that have been discussed, including a presentation that Eric and I collaborated on in 2003 at a LITA conference. for the wordiness, high anxiety lessens my efficiency. From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Oct 18 11:39:38 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Tue Oct 18 11:39:43 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] USA Today article on Google Print Message-ID: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-10-17-google-pr int_x.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From brad.eden at unlv.edu Tue Oct 18 15:45:25 2005 From: brad.eden at unlv.edu (brad.eden@unlv.edu) Date: Tue Oct 18 15:45:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Academic libraries/archives with large digitization facilities Message-ID: I am interested in finding out about academic libraries or archives with large digitization facilities that focus on digitization of internal resources (i.e., Special Collections, other collections). I would appreciate information related to staffing, volume of production, # of current digitization projects, etc. If you can send me to a website for this information, that would be even better. Please respond to me privately at the email below. Thanks. Brad Eden, Ph.D. Head, Web and Digitization Services University of Nevada, Las Vegas Libraries brad.eden@unlv.edu From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Oct 18 16:03:49 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Tue Oct 18 16:02:51 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C515117DF@SYSTEM14> I have been asked to use ISAPI_Rewrite in place of EZproxy for authentication. The server it will run on uses Microsoft IIS. Has anyone done this? I have looked at the Helicon website but can not find any information in understandable everyday English. Are there any things I should be concerned about? Will ISAPI_Rewrite work with SFX? Please send me responses off list and I will compile them. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From jdunck at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 16:11:35 2005 From: jdunck at gmail.com (Jeremy Dunck) Date: Tue Oct 18 16:11:39 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C515117DF@SYSTEM14> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C515117DF@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <2545a92c0510181311r56e485ddxb7c3129d53ec259d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/18/05, Drew, Bill wrote: > I have been asked to use ISAPI_Rewrite in place of EZproxy for > authentication. The server it will run on uses Microsoft IIS. Has > anyone done this? I have looked at the Helicon website but can not find > any information in understandable everyday English. Are there any > things I should be concerned about? Will ISAPI_Rewrite work with SFX? > Please send me responses off list and I will compile them. My understanding was that ISAPI_rewrite was basically Apache's mod_rewrite for IIS. Which is to say, I don't think it does proxying at all. Miscommunication somewhere up the chain? From WSullivan at cslib.org Tue Oct 18 16:34:14 2005 From: WSullivan at cslib.org (William Sullivan) Date: Tue Oct 18 16:34:44 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Position Opening - Library Specialist - Connecticut Digital Library Message-ID: Job Announcement Library Specialist - Connecticut Digital Library The Connecticut State Library, is recruiting for a full time Library Specialist/Electronic Resources Coordinator for the Connecticut Digital Library in Middletown, Connecticut. The Electronic Resources Coordinator will report to the Administrator of the Connecticut Digital Library and will manage and develop the electronic resources component of the Connecticut Digital Library (www.iCONN.org). iCONN provides all Connecticut students, faculty and residents with online access to essential library and information resources. It is administered by the Connecticut State Library in cooperation with the Department of Higher Education. Duties: Providing leadership and management of database content for iCONN by working with the Connecticut Digital Library Advisory Board Database Selection Committee and the library community to identify and recommend products for inclusion in iCONN; assisting in the procurement of licensed databases which will include the development of requests for proposals, and evaluation and acceptance; ensuring all authorized institutions and remote users have access to iCONN; collecting and reporting statistics; working as the liaison between database vendors and libraries; recommending training for library staff; providing training to libraries on system functions through on-site visits, users group meetings and e-mail tutorials; promoting awareness of iCONN in the library community; presenting and demonstrating iCONN at library meetings and conferences. Minimum Qualifications Required: Masters Degree in Library Science and three (3) years post-graduate professional employment in a library systems environment; considerable project management skills; ability to analyze and solve complex problems; considerable interpersonal skills; oral and written communication skills; ability to proficiently use desktop applications such as MS Word, Excel, Access, Publisher, Web browser and email. Special Requirement: Travel in/out of state required. For more information or a complete job description, please call Teri Antonini at 860-566-5814. Eligible candidates can send a State Application (http://www.das.state.ct.us/exam/AppForm.pdf ) and resume by Friday, October 28, 2005 to Teri Antonini, Human Resources Department, Connecticut State Library, 231 Capitol Avenue, Hartford, CT 06106. The annual starting salary is $61,646. Connecticut State Library is an Affirmative Action/Equal Employment Opportunity Employer. ____________________________________ William Sullivan, Administrator Connecticut Digital Library www.iconn.org Connecticut State Library www.cslib.org 786 South Main Street, Middletown, CT 06457 wsullivan@cslib.org tel: 860-344-2038 or 888-256-1222 (toll-free) From peter.j.gilbert at lawrence.edu Tue Oct 18 17:31:23 2005 From: peter.j.gilbert at lawrence.edu (Peter Gilbert) Date: Tue Oct 18 17:30:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Position available: Reference/Web Services Librarian at Lawrence University Message-ID: <435569AB.3040807@lawrence.edu> REFERENCE AND WEB SERVICES LIBRARIAN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR (TWO-YEAR APPOINTMENT) -- SEARCH EXTENDED Lawrence University, a highly selective liberal arts college and nationally recognized conservatory of music located in Appleton Wisconsin, seeks applications for a reference and web services librarian to fill a two-year appointment. This is a twelve-month faculty position with rank. RESPONSIBILITIES: Works closely and collaboratively with library faculty and staff to provide and maintain quality services and collections. Coordinates library web site maintenance and development. Creates new and updates existing web pages and provides leadership in developing database-driven web applications. Provides vision for future web projects, explores how new technologies can be implemented on the web site, and provides support for library web development. Provides general reference service in rotation with four other librarians, in a schedule that includes some evening/weekend hours. Develops and delivers library instruction as a part of the library's information literacy initiatives. Creates and maintains research guides in both print and Web formats. QUALIFICATIONS: Master's degree in librarianship from an ALA-accredited program. Expertise in web development, web site management, and web standards. Experience and/or course work in reference service and library instruction. Strong commitment to responsive and innovative service; the ability to balance varied responsibilities; excellent communication skills; the ability to work collaboratively and effectively with colleagues and undergraduate students. SALARY: mid-$30s, commensurate with degrees and qualifications. ABOUT LAWRENCE UNIVERSITY: Lawrence enrolls 1,300 undergraduates from 47 states and 42 countries. Lawrence is located in Appleton, Wisconsin, a city at the center of the Fox River Valley in the northeast part of the state. The Seeley G. Mudd Library contains over 380,000 book volumes. More information about Lawrence is available at http://www.lawrence.edu; more information about the Seeley G. Mudd Library is available at http://www.lawrence.edu/library/. Applicants should submit a cover letter, curriculum vitae, URLs of websites and services created and/or managed, and contact information for three references to: Reference/Web Services Librarian Search Committee, Seeley G. Mudd Library, Lawrence University, 113 S. Lawe Street, Appleton, WI 54912 or e-mail to: peter.j.gilbert@lawrence.edu Review of applications will begin November 1, 2005 and will continue until the position is filled. Lawrence University promotes equal opportunity for all. From NSWEETSE at usc.edu.au Tue Oct 18 19:30:06 2005 From: NSWEETSE at usc.edu.au (Nanette Sweetser) Date: Tue Oct 18 19:31:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Re: RE: MyLibrary-LIKE: tried iPortal? (Web4lib Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16) Message-ID: RE: >We are about to undertake a library web redesign. Over time we have seen >people discuss uses of MyLibrary-like applications to provide better >user-centered library services. (Charlie McNeil) Hi Charlie Have you thought of iPortal? see website http://www.igroupsonline.com/iPortal/ add to it access to wikis/blogs set up by users and/or staff for various purposes/functions cheers Nan ------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>> Nan Sweetser e-Mail: Acquisitions & Cataloguing Librarian Tel: 07-5430-2812 University of the Sunshine Coast Fax: 07-5430-2810 Library Resources and Technologies Maroochydore D.C. Qld 4558 Australia Web: ------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>>------>>>> >>> web4lib-request@webjunction.org 10/19/05 2:00 am >>> Send Web4lib mailing list submissions to web4lib@webjunction.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.webjunction.org/mailman/listinfo/web4lib or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to web4lib-request@webjunction.org You can reach the person managing the list at web4lib-owner@webjunction.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Web4lib digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Web conferencing online orientation sessions (Lori Bell) 2. RE: MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? (Charlie McNeil) 3. USA Today article on Google Print (Sloan, Bernie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori Bell Subject: [Web4lib] Web conferencing online orientation sessions To: web4lib@webjunction.org Message-ID: <20051018002356.72821.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Greetings! Interested in inexpensive but excellent web conferencing options to offer programs, training and more for your staff and customers? OPAL Coordinator Tom Peters has scheduled two OPAL orientation sessions this week you are invited to attend. They last one hour and will give you the basics on how to use the TC Conferencing software to have an online meeting or program. If these times do not work for you, contact Tom at tapinformation@yahoo.com or me and we will set up something else. To participate, all you need is an Internet connection, sound card and speakers. Go to http://67.19.231.218/v4/login.asp?r=67955673&p=0 type your name and click enter to go into the online room. If you would like a trial room, contact Tom or me and we can set one up for you. You can use these rooms for meetings, online training sessions, discussion groups, to create online tutorials, and more. You can record sessions and make them available on the web or as a podcast. If you have any questions, please contact us. Hope to see you at one of these orientations. Tuesday, October 18, 2005 beginning at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 1:00 Central, noon Mountain, 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and 6:00 p.m. GMT: Introduction to OPAL and tcConference version 4 for Moderators If you are (or soon will become) a moderator of OPAL events and want to learn more about how to use version 4 of tcConference software for OPAL events, this session is for you. Numerous tips and techniques for customizing and optimizing the OPAL online experience will be shared. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. Thursday, October 20, 2005 beginning at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, 1:00 Central, noon Mountain, 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and 6:00 p.m. GMT: Introduction to OPAL and tcConference version 4 for Moderators If you are (or soon will become) a moderator of OPAL events and want to learn more about how to use version 4 of tcConference software for OPAL events, this session is for you. Numerous tips and techniques for customizing and optimizing the OPAL online experience will be shared. This OPAL event will be held in the Auditorium. __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:27:27 -0400 From: "Charlie McNeil" Subject: RE: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? To: "'John Fereira'" , Message-ID: <20051018032728.49A21328614@mail.umassd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" John - Thanks much for the informative reply. We've setup a test MyLibrary configuration and Eric has been very kind in answering some of our questions. I thought I had found most every article/presentation on MyLibrary, but I had somehow missed your presentation and the accompanying PDF. Just from the outside, it "looks" like many libraries are using some sort of database-based website. It's just hard to tell how many are MyLibrary-like in their approach. Others are CMS-based, but that too is hard to tell (we've looked at quite a few - Mambo/joomla and Drupal the latest). I would guess a few are a mix of CMS and MyLibrary - wish I knew which ;-) uPortal seems like another step up in capability and technical expertise needed to implement. Dunno. Will explore further. Many thanks for the reply! It really is much appreciated. - Charlie -----Original Message----- From: John Fereira [mailto:jaf30@cornell.edu] Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:41 AM To: UMassDLCC@umassd.edu; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] MyLibrary-LIKE: Who, What, Where? At 02:06 PM 10/16/2005, Charlie McNeil wrote: >All - > > > >We are about to undertake a library web redesign. Over time we have seen >people discuss uses of MyLibrary-like applications to provide better >user-centered library services. Some focus on the MY part and allow users to >build there own resource pages; some focus on being able to push content in >context such as reserve reading lists and subject guides to courses in an >LMS such as WebCT. User centered and reusability/adaptability seem to be the >key features. Greetings, About five years ago I was one of two developer that created a MyLibrary system here at Cornell. In our case, we separated the MyLibrary system into a set of services, initially just a virtual bookmark manager with linking into the networked resources (i.e. online databases, journals) and a Current Awareness service which provided patrons a list of titles based on subject criteria via email. We subsequently added a Table of Contents service (which aggregates feeds from multiple vendors and provides the TOC in multiple formats (i.e. text, html, endnote, refworks). Just prior to the release of that system the other programmer left the library so I've had responsibility for all of the services ever since. All that said, if I were to create a new MyLibrary system I would first look at the work that Eric Lease Morgan did with his open source version (http://dewey.library.nd.edu/mylibrary/). >What we are wondering is who is actually using these applications and to >what purposes? Is it just a few with larger tech staffs or are there many >that just do it with little fanfare. We have a small systems staff, but we >too want to create an environment that is user-centered and enables the user >to get their work done in the best way possible. We've done some user statistics collection and found that the services are mostly used by faculty, staff, and graduate students. >We have such a mix of systems that there is an obvious need to somehow pull >it all together better. For example, like many others, we have a library >website, an OPAC (Endeavor), an eReserve system (Docutek), SerialsSolutions >for journal management, consortia Virtual catalogs, RefWorks and Ezproxy >authentication. We are also about to implement metasearch and OpenURL >resolver systems (Endeavor). How do we make it all work together as whole >and how do we prepare for interfacing our systems with others such as WebCT >or a university portal. While there are frameworks that will help you're likely going to have to do a lot of "customization" work to tie all your different applications together. One approach might be to use something like uPortal (http://www.uportal.org) which will provide a framework for aggregating your content as a collection of portlets, each of which will provide a different service. The portal can take care of authentication/authorization (single sign-on) and provide a common user interface to each of the services. You might try putting both MyLibrary and uPortal in a google search to see some approaches that have been discussed, including a presentation that Eric and I collaborated on in 2003 at a LITA conference. for the wordiness, high anxiety lessens my efficiency. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:39:38 -0500 From: "Sloan, Bernie" Subject: [Web4lib] USA Today article on Google Print To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-10-17-google-pr int_x.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ End of Web4lib Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16 ************************************** From arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu Wed Oct 19 09:27:57 2005 From: arjun.sabharwal at baker.edu (Arjun Sabharwal) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:29:18 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Job opening - Flint, MI Message-ID: <5bf22a2a.4db487a2.838e000@mserve1.baker.edu> Hello List: This position announcement is for your information. Please direct your inquiries to the email address given below. Sincerely, -- Arjun Sabharwal ******************************************************* ADMINISTRATIVE OPENING Baker College Online & Center For Graduate Studies Internal & External Posting POSITION: Remote Services Librarian REPORTS TO: Director of Library Services MINIMUM EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS ? Master's in Library Information Science or equivalent degree from an ALA-accredited institution. ? Experience in managing and processing access issues associated with electronic resources. ? Excellent computer and technology skills, including knowledge of web technologies and standards. ? Strong customer service commitment ? Ability to work well as part of a team, as well as to work independently, managing a complex workload in an on time, effective manner with minimum supervision. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ? Provide reference and research assistance to remote users. ? Educate library users regarding issues associated with the use of electronic resources. ? Create instructional materials for using library resources. ? Help maintain Online Library web pages with current information. ? Work closely with Technical Staff to develop and implement a problem tracking system for access problems related to e- resources. ? Perform other duties as assigned. WORK SCHEDULE 40 hours a week; Hours may vary. ? Some evening and weekend hours will be required STARTING DATE November 15, 2005 COMPENSATION Salary based on education, experience, and existing wage rates for similar positions at Baker College. Full benefit package APPLICATION PROCEDURE: Submit cover letter and resume by October 31, 2005 to: Human Resource Department Baker College Center for Graduate Studies 1116 W Bristol Road Flint, MI 48507 Fax: (810) 766-4399 E-mail: hrgradcenter@baker.edu AA/EOE ************************************************************ From bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu Wed Oct 19 10:03:30 2005 From: bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu (bpulliam@postoffice.providence.edu) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:03:37 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] NEASIST "Evening Discussion and Networking with Steven Cohen" - 11/18/05 Message-ID: <200510191403.j9JE3UK17591@postoffice.providence.edu> ADVANCE APOLOGIES FOR CROSS-POSTINGS... Just announced!! Continue the Hacks discussion in a lively, evening discussion with super blogger & librarian Steven Cohen... http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20051118.html "Social Software, Libraries, and the Communities that (could) Sustain Them" Friday, 18 November 2005, 6-8pm (registration/networking reception 5:30p-6:15p) 10-105 (Vannevar Bush Room) MIT, Cambridge, MA While Wiki- or Blog-ified pages, recommender/commenting systems, Web 2.0, RSS, portals, structured blogging all indicate customized services—these technologies and concepts are not normally associated with the library systems, until now. "Reader's Advisory: A Community Effort," Steven Cohen's recent column in Public Libraries magazine (Jan/Feb 2005), forms the basis for an evening of vision, demonstration and discussion with the author about leveraging the collective knowledge of our constituencies to bring online communities and libraries together. Discussion will include the expectations and infrastructures (online and off) necessary for online communities to thrive and the importance of needs assessments in this growing arena. Most importantly, Steven will highlight examples of online social software initiatives currently in place, in and outside of the library community, and share ideas for future implementations. Join Steven and your colleagues for a vision of the next generation of libraries (accompanied by treats and beverages of course!) $25 ASIST Members - $35 Non-Members - $15 Student/Retiree/Between Jobs (refreshments included) LIMITED SPACE REGISTER EARLY Register via Program Web site: http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20051118.html There is still time to register for the Hacks program: http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/20051118.html BONUS: Every attendee of the Hacks program will receive a recently published Hacks title courtesy of O'Reilly Publishing!! Want to attend both programs? Save $$$ by registering for both programs now! http://www.neasist.org/pc/programs/discount.html Beatrice Pulliam Chair-Elect, ASIST NE Chapter http://neasist.org --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca Wed Oct 19 10:36:26 2005 From: cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Gray) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:37:37 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? In-Reply-To: <2545a92c0510181311r56e485ddxb7c3129d53ec259d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C515117DF@SYSTEM14> <2545a92c0510181311r56e485ddxb7c3129d53ec259d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Jeremy Dunck wrote: > > My understanding was that ISAPI_rewrite was basically Apache's > mod_rewrite for IIS. > > Which is to say, I don't think it does proxying at all. As the ISAPI_rewrite FAQ, , says, the module's mission is "to rewrite _requested_ URLs". In other words, it is an analog to Apache mod_rewrite , not to the Perl Apache-RewritingProxy module . So a browser sends a request to your server and ISAPI_rewrite figures out where the desired page is really, goes and gets it, and passes it back to the browser. All this happens in the HTTP request and response headers not in the actual HTML page that the browser gets. The question is, how did the browser know, although it wanted a page from EBSCO, for instance, to ask your server instead of going to the other site directly. In the case of EZProxy, it knows because EZProxy rewrites the proxied page and changes all URLs for EBSCO into URLs for your server. In the case of ISAPI_rewrite, the browser would have to be told in its proxy config settings to send all requests for EBSCO to your server instead. In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write a pac file, , and teach your users to configure their browsers, for example, . Having moved from doing this with Apache to using EZProxy, our experience here is that EZProxy cut way down on the amount of hand holding we've had to do with users. UsefulUtilities points to the helpful page on Remote User Authentication in Libraries . Chris Gray Library Systems University of Waterloo From morville at semanticstudios.com Wed Oct 19 10:40:09 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:40:51 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Tagsonomy Interview Message-ID: If you didn't get enough authority last week, here's a follow-up interview: http://tagsonomy.com/index.php/peter-morville-the-tagsonomy-interview/ I have a feeling the response from the social software crowd may be quite different than the web4lib folks... Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org From leo at leoklein.com Wed Oct 19 12:36:04 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed Oct 19 12:36:25 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C515117DF@SYSTEM14> <2545a92c0510181311r56e485ddxb7c3129d53ec259d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <435675F4.9030702@leoklein.com> Chris Gray wrote: > > In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write a > pac file, , and > teach your users to configure their browsers, for example, > . And therein lies the tale. "teach your users to configure their browsers" This is precisely what you'd want to avoid -- unless your goal is lifetime job security for your tech support team. I'd try scaring the IT Dept. to death with stories of round-the-clock customer support and hand-holding before embarking on this path. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From John.Moss at hro.com Wed Oct 19 12:40:40 2005 From: John.Moss at hro.com (John Moss) Date: Wed Oct 19 12:41:08 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] AIA Contract Document Software Message-ID: <380FB8B1B3D7AF4793A61C08368003F25D3C80@denco-exch2.hroad.hro.com> Our IT dept is having problems installing this software. We're running XP on a Novell network. The software is not getting registered due to their licensing/validation process. We've been working with AIA tech support, but I wanted to see if anyone else had this problem. Thanks, John Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of further assistance. Thank You, John Moss Holme Roberts & Owen LLP Library Technical Services HRO Intranet Specialist 1700 Lincoln St., Suite 4100 Denver, Colorado 80203-4541 303.866.0432 (Direct) 303.866.0200 (Fax) john.moss@hro.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE - This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read or play this transmission and that any disclosure, copying, printing, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you. FEDERAL TAX ADVICE DISCLAIMER We are required by U. S. Treasury Regulations to inform you that, to the extent this message includes any federal tax advice, this message is not intended or written by the sender to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding federal tax penalties. From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Oct 19 13:19:46 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed Oct 19 13:17:16 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <43568032.2060203@ohiolink.edu> I didn't see this posted yet. Jakob Nielsen has written up his 2005 version of the "Top Ten Web Design Mistakes" at . This version is largely derived from comments his readers provided. Longtime Web4Libbers will recall that earlier versions of this list have done a lot to arm usability-minded librarians against Kewl Deeziners their institutions may have accidentally put in charge of the web site. The current list: Legibility - including bad fonts (too much Verdana everywhere, IMO), and small/frozen font sizes Non-standard links - make it obvious what's a link, don't use Javascript for links, etc. Flash - "...at the main Flash developer conference, almost everybody agreed that past excesses should be abandoned and that Flash's future was in providing useful user interfaces" Content that's not written for the web Bad search - "search is a fundamental component...and is getting more important every year" Browser incompatibility - due to increasing non-ubiquity of IE Cumbersome forms - too many, too long, unneeded questions, etc. Lack of contact info Frozen layouts/fixed page widths - too narrow for hi-res displays and/or too wide for printing Inadequate photo enlargement - "click to enlarge" leads to images that aren't enlarged enough, especially for hi-res displays There's a note that, just based on reader response, the last item would have been an anti-popup item, but that's been covered many times already. Just IMO, a lot of the page design errors here become obvious when you get a hi-res monitor (i.e. what a current basic system comes with) and a browser that can enforce a minimum font size friendly to middle-aged eyes. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From gfacincani at sec.state.ri.us Wed Oct 19 13:34:47 2005 From: gfacincani at sec.state.ri.us (Greg Facincani) Date: Wed Oct 19 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] New Google Group Message-ID: <435683B7.60003@sec.state.ri.us> A new Google group of interest: http://www.google.com/services/librarian_center.html -- Greg Facincani, Technical Librarian Rhode Island State Library From ekraft at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 19 13:54:26 2005 From: ekraft at uiuc.edu (Erik Kraft) Date: Wed Oct 19 13:54:28 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43568032.2060203@ohiolink.edu> References: <43568032.2060203@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> Most of the items on Nielsen's list are no-brainers, but I don't think frozen layouts and fixed page widths are a usability "mistake" at all. In fact, I think the reason you cite for using liquid layouts--that many entry-level machines now come standard with hi-res monitors--is an argument for, not against, fixed width layouts. There is now a huge disparity between the lowest possible resolution we have to design for (800 x 600) and the highest (2000 or more pixels wide). In most cases, I think liquid layouts that look great at 800x600 look awful on a super hi-res monitor, and vice-versa. Of course the usability argument is that the user should be in control of the size of their browser window's content area, but I'm slightly dubious that the average user on a high-res monitors surfs the web with a less-than-maximized browser window. Readability is a huge part of usability, and this involves being able to reliably control white space and line lengths on pages. I don't think Nielsen gets this, at all. (Not that I wish to start a long debate about aspects of design that Nielsen doesn't get--that could preoccupy the list for a very long time indeed!) I know there are pros and cons both ways, and that a good case can be made for liquid layouts, and that different kinds of pages call for different layouts, but to call a fixed width design an outright "mistake" gets my back up a bit. Cheers, Erik. Erik. Thomas Dowling wrote: > I didn't see this posted yet. Jakob Nielsen has written up his 2005 > version of the "Top Ten Web Design Mistakes" at > . This version is > largely derived from comments his readers provided. > > Longtime Web4Libbers will recall that earlier versions of this list > have done a lot to arm usability-minded librarians against Kewl > Deeziners their institutions may have accidentally put in charge of > the web site. > > The current list: > > Legibility - including bad fonts (too much Verdana everywhere, IMO), > and small/frozen font sizes > Non-standard links - make it obvious what's a link, don't use > Javascript for links, etc. > Flash - "...at the main Flash developer conference, almost everybody > agreed that past excesses should be abandoned and that Flash's > future was in providing useful user interfaces" > Content that's not written for the web > Bad search - "search is a fundamental component...and is getting > more important every year" > Browser incompatibility - due to increasing non-ubiquity of IE > Cumbersome forms - too many, too long, unneeded questions, etc. > Lack of contact info > Frozen layouts/fixed page widths - too narrow for hi-res displays > and/or too wide for printing > Inadequate photo enlargement - "click to enlarge" leads to images > that aren't enlarged enough, especially for hi-res displays > > There's a note that, just based on reader response, the last item > would have been an anti-popup item, but that's been covered many times > already. > > Just IMO, a lot of the page design errors here become obvious when you > get a hi-res monitor (i.e. what a current basic system comes with) and > a browser that can enforce a minimum font size friendly to middle-aged > eyes. > -- Erik Kraft Visiting Assistant Reference Librarian for Digital Resources University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ekraft@uiuc.edu / 217.244.3770 From brounk at mail.nih.gov Wed Oct 19 14:20:15 2005 From: brounk at mail.nih.gov (Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI)) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:20:21 2005 Subject: semi-liquid layout (was Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 ver sion) Message-ID: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0FA29@nihexchange11.nih.gov> I agree with Erik that usability is definitely an issue with liquid layouts on large screens, but if there's a choice, I'd prefer a liquid to non-liquid layout, and let the user size the browser window as he/she finds appropriate. In trying to pursue a middle ground, I've been working with semi-liquid layouts, where the content reflows with the window width to a certain extent, but avoids falling apart in the case of a huge window width. One way to do this is to put the page content inside a "main" div and control width in the stylesheet like this: div#main {min-width: 650px; max-width: 900px; width: expression(document.body.clientWidth > 900 ? "900px" : "auto");} Standards-compliant browsers will respect the 650-900px range. Since IE, at least through version 6, ignores max-width, the "expression" code is a kludge for IE to keep the content from spreading too wide (I didn't bother with the minimum width for IE in this case). Obviously, "huge" is in the eye of the beholder and you can set whatever ranges you think are appropriate for your site. With some more work, it also could be done dynamically to let the user set the range as well, possibly in response to, or in conjunction with, user-set font sizes or other settings that may be helpful in improving accessibility while maintaining your site design. - Kevin Kevin Broun Senior Web Developer / NCI LION Team Lead Office of Communications National Cancer Institute kbroun@nih.gov -----Original Message----- From: Erik Kraft [mailto:ekraft@uiuc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:54 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Most of the items on Nielsen's list are no-brainers, but I don't think frozen layouts and fixed page widths are a usability "mistake" at all. In fact, I think the reason you cite for using liquid layouts--that many entry-level machines now come standard with hi-res monitors--is an argument for, not against, fixed width layouts. There is now a huge disparity between the lowest possible resolution we have to design for (800 x 600) and the highest (2000 or more pixels wide). In most cases, I think liquid layouts that look great at 800x600 look awful on a super hi-res monitor, and vice-versa. Of course the usability argument is that the user should be in control of the size of their browser window's content area, but I'm slightly dubious that the average user on a high-res monitors surfs the web with a less-than-maximized browser window. Readability is a huge part of usability, and this involves being able to reliably control white space and line lengths on pages. I don't think Nielsen gets this, at all. (Not that I wish to start a long debate about aspects of design that Nielsen doesn't get--that could preoccupy the list for a very long time indeed!) I know there are pros and cons both ways, and that a good case can be made for liquid layouts, and that different kinds of pages call for different layouts, but to call a fixed width design an outright "mistake" gets my back up a bit. Cheers, Erik. From bardsley at u.washington.edu Wed Oct 19 14:27:45 2005 From: bardsley at u.washington.edu (Mark Bardsley) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:27:51 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <200510191827.j9JIRjeq001222@smtp.washington.edu> I agree with you Erik. I recently redesigned a website and it looked bad on a high res screen with a width of 1600 pixels because a paragraph looked like one long stretched sentence. My solution was to put a maximum width on the divs containing the content and navigation bar. Of course I used CSS to do this and of course I had to implement a workaround for IE. Sometimes less website real-estate is more. I think aesthetics play an important role in this topic. - Mark -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Erik Kraft Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:54 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Most of the items on Nielsen's list are no-brainers, but I don't think frozen layouts and fixed page widths are a usability "mistake" at all. In fact, I think the reason you cite for using liquid layouts--that many entry-level machines now come standard with hi-res monitors--is an argument for, not against, fixed width layouts. There is now a huge disparity between the lowest possible resolution we have to design for (800 x 600) and the highest (2000 or more pixels wide). In most cases, I think liquid layouts that look great at 800x600 look awful on a super hi-res monitor, and vice-versa. Of course the usability argument is that the user should be in control of the size of their browser window's content area, but I'm slightly dubious that the average user on a high-res monitors surfs the web with a less-than-maximized browser window. Readability is a huge part of usability, and this involves being able to reliably control white space and line lengths on pages. I don't think Nielsen gets this, at all. (Not that I wish to start a long debate about aspects of design that Nielsen doesn't get--that could preoccupy the list for a very long time indeed!) I know there are pros and cons both ways, and that a good case can be made for liquid layouts, and that different kinds of pages call for different layouts, but to call a fixed width design an outright "mistake" gets my back up a bit. Cheers, Erik. Erik. Thomas Dowling wrote: > I didn't see this posted yet. Jakob Nielsen has written up his 2005 > version of the "Top Ten Web Design Mistakes" at > . This version is > largely derived from comments his readers provided. > > Longtime Web4Libbers will recall that earlier versions of this list > have done a lot to arm usability-minded librarians against Kewl > Deeziners their institutions may have accidentally put in charge of > the web site. > > The current list: > > Legibility - including bad fonts (too much Verdana everywhere, IMO), > and small/frozen font sizes > Non-standard links - make it obvious what's a link, don't use > Javascript for links, etc. > Flash - "...at the main Flash developer conference, almost everybody > agreed that past excesses should be abandoned and that Flash's > future was in providing useful user interfaces" > Content that's not written for the web Bad search - "search is a > fundamental component...and is getting > more important every year" > Browser incompatibility - due to increasing non-ubiquity of IE > Cumbersome forms - too many, too long, unneeded questions, etc. > Lack of contact info > Frozen layouts/fixed page widths - too narrow for hi-res displays > and/or too wide for printing > Inadequate photo enlargement - "click to enlarge" leads to images > that aren't enlarged enough, especially for hi-res displays > > There's a note that, just based on reader response, the last item > would have been an anti-popup item, but that's been covered many times > already. > > Just IMO, a lot of the page design errors here become obvious when you > get a hi-res monitor (i.e. what a current basic system comes with) and > a browser that can enforce a minimum font size friendly to middle-aged > eyes. > -- Erik Kraft Visiting Assistant Reference Librarian for Digital Resources University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ekraft@uiuc.edu / 217.244.3770 _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From beth.reiten at okstate.edu Wed Oct 19 14:41:06 2005 From: beth.reiten at okstate.edu (Reiten, Beth) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:41:09 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Message-ID: <80D14E569B0CA2478CFFFCD2B0C5C64D89635E@EXE1.ad.okstate.edu> And if you want horror stories to share, just ask. I suspect I'm not the only person who would be glad to share actual phone conversations. ----------------------------------------------------------------- *Please note my new email address* ----------------------------------------------------------------- Beth Reiten, Asst. Professor & Librarian Digital Library Services Edmon Low Library Oklahoma State University Phone: 405-744-9109 Email: beth.reiten@okstate.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Leo Robert Klein Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:36 AM To: Web4Lib Subject: Re: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Chris Gray wrote: > > In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write > a pac file, > , and teach > your users to configure their browsers, for example, . And therein lies the tale. "teach your users to configure their browsers" This is precisely what you'd want to avoid -- unless your goal is lifetime job security for your tech support team. I'd try scaring the IT Dept. to death with stories of round-the-clock customer support and hand-holding before embarking on this path. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From bernies at uillinois.edu Wed Oct 19 15:14:02 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:14:05 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Another Google Print Library lawsuit Message-ID: "The Association of American Publishers (AAP) today announced the filing of a lawsuit against Google over its plans to digitally copy and distribute copyrighted works without permission of the copyright owners. The lawsuit was filed only after lengthy discussions broke down between AAP and Google's top management regarding the copyright infringement implications of the Google Print Library Project." AAP press release: http://tinyurl.com/byq7k Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Oct 19 15:25:46 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:23:15 2005 Subject: semi-liquid layout (was Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 ver sion) In-Reply-To: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0FA29@nihexchange11.nih.gov> References: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0FA29@nihexchange11.nih.gov> Message-ID: <43569DBA.70106@ohiolink.edu> Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI) wrote: > >div#main {min-width: 650px; max-width: 900px; width: >expression(document.body.clientWidth > 900 ? "900px" : "auto");} > > > You may want to experiment with something like: min-width: 30em; max-width: 50em; I have some pages in place with directives like: width: 44em; max-width: 95%; At least IMO, the appropriate measurements for the width of a text block are relative to the font size, not physical or pixel dimensions. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From ylef at coloradomtn.edu Wed Oct 19 15:44:32 2005 From: ylef at coloradomtn.edu (Yuliya Lef) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:44:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> Dear colleagues, We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you so much in advance, Yuliya ----------------------------- Yuliya Lef Virtual Library Coordinator Colorado Mountain College 333 Fiedler Ave. P.O. Box 1414 Dillon, CO 80435 970-468-5989 (phone) 970-468-5018 (fax) ylef@coloradomtn.edu http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Wed Oct 19 15:55:29 2005 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:55:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> References: <43568032.2060203@ohiolink.edu> <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <4356A4B1.9080703@billings.lib.mt.us> Erik Kraft wrote: > Most of the items on Nielsen's list are no-brainers, but I don't think > frozen layouts and fixed page widths are a usability "mistake" at all. > In fact, I think the reason you cite for using liquid layouts--that many > entry-level machines now come standard with hi-res monitors--is an > argument for, not against, fixed width layouts. There is now a huge > disparity between the lowest possible resolution we have to design for > (800 x 600) and the highest (2000 or more pixels wide). In most cases, I > think liquid layouts that look great at 800x600 look awful on a super > hi-res monitor, and vice-versa. > > Of course the usability argument is that the user should be in control > of the size of their browser window's content area, but I'm slightly > dubious that the average user on a high-res monitors surfs the web with > a less-than-maximized browser window. Readability is a huge part of > usability, and this involves being able to reliably control white space > and line lengths on pages. I don't think Nielsen gets this, at all. (Not > that I wish to start a long debate about aspects of design that Nielsen > doesn't get--that could preoccupy the list for a very long time indeed!) > > I know there are pros and cons both ways, and that a good case can be > made for liquid layouts, and that different kinds of pages call for > different layouts, but to call a fixed width design an outright > "mistake" gets my back up a bit. > > Cheers, > > Erik. Erik, The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially if it's IE). I use Firefox because it will enlarge anything in print, even frames. Pages that have print in 8 or 9 point type (or smaller - gaakh) are otherwise impossible for me to read anymore, no matter which pair of glasses I'm wearing, unless I can make it bigger. The page I write is all relative fonts (I hope - any otherwise I'll change when I find them!) for that reason - so any browser can make the print bigger, if the user knows how to do that (and it's an easy phone walk-thru mostly, if they don't - done that). Many other people with less than 20/20 vision have similar problems - you don't have to be legally blind to have trouble seeing tiny print, and I think that's what Nielsen is getting at (wild guess on my part). I don't really care that the beautiful layout goes down the tubes when I enlarge the print - if the authors want me to stay on their page, I better be able to read same or I'm outta there! If they wrote it and froze it in 8-point type, then I'm not going to use their webpage - squinting makes my head hurt. A lot of people older than I feel even more vehemently on the issue, because their sight is worse. So I guess I agree with Neilsen here - let the user control print size. Regards, Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From ras at anzio.com Wed Oct 19 16:17:55 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Wed Oct 19 16:17:58 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4356A4B1.9080703@billings.lib.mt.us> References: <43568032.2060203@ohiolink.edu> <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> <4356A4B1.9080703@billings.lib.mt.us> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com From jlward1 at u.washington.edu Wed Oct 19 16:56:32 2005 From: jlward1 at u.washington.edu (Jennifer Ward) Date: Wed Oct 19 16:56:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center Message-ID: The move of the web4lib list to the webjunction hosting service prompted an examination of our reference center and whether there are better approaches for providing that content. Given the audience (us!) and technology that's now available, moving to a wiki seems to be a natural choice and a way for everyone to contribute. Meredith Farkas has established the Library Success wiki and agrees that it would be an excellent new home for the web4Lib reference center. Before switching over, I wanted to get feedback from the community. If there are other solutions to consider, or if you have additional comments to make, please let me know. Thanks, Jennifer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jennifer Ward Head, Web Services Information Technology Services University of Washington Libraries phone: 206.685.3121 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Oct 19 17:21:25 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:20:06 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511A33@SYSTEM14> Couldn't do any better than that site! A wiki is a great solution. Bill Drew drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Ward > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:57 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center > > The move of the web4lib list to the webjunction hosting > service prompted > an examination of our reference center and whether there are better > approaches for providing that content. Given the audience (us!) and > technology that's now available, moving to a wiki seems to be > a natural > choice and a way for everyone to contribute. From hewlett at usfca.edu Wed Oct 19 18:14:12 2005 From: hewlett at usfca.edu (Norma Hewlett) Date: Wed Oct 19 18:14:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> I totally agree with Lynne. My vision is 20/30 with glasses, good enough so I can drive a car, and very far from being legally blind. I keep my monitor set to 800x600 and my browser text size set to largest font. (See, I know how to adjust the settings.) I hate web pages with fixed fonts, especially those with less than 12 point type. Most of the time I just skip those pages. (Did you put all that effort into designing your page so people will skip it without reading it?) I don't care how nice the page layout looks if I can't read the text. If I really need to read the content, I copy it, paste it into Word, and enlarge the font there. (So much for the page layout!) The Windows magnifying glass may be a good tool for enlarging pixils but it's a terrible way to read a page. I defy anybody to use it on a regular basis. Anyway, why should I need a magnifying glass to read your web site? I thought the idea was to put out the information in a form that will attract readers, not make things difficult for them. Jean Hewlett All opinions are my own, and do not represent my employers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Rasmussen Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:17 pm Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > > > Erik, > > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes > are concerned, > > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser > (especially> if it's IE)... > > First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much > controlas possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know > how to size their > window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an > opportunity to > help them take control of their computer system for other sites as > well. > Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things > users can > do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: > > 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display > Properties, then > Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. > Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display > operations. > > 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All > Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a > magnifier at > the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area > surroundingyour mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is > useful for seeing > exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. > > Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging > eyes. Some > display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various > reasons. > > Regards, > ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. > > personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com > company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com > voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) > fax: (US) 503-624-0760 > web: http://www.anzio.com > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From ekraft at uiuc.edu Wed Oct 19 18:22:18 2005 From: ekraft at uiuc.edu (Erik Kraft) Date: Wed Oct 19 18:22:25 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> Message-ID: <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> Just to clarify: I'm all for relative font sizes that can be resized in all browsers. I know the fixed/frozen terminology gets confusing, but I was only addressing the issue of overall page width in my original post. On Nielsen's list, the overall page width issue is separate from the font size issue. Cheers, Erik. Norma Hewlett wrote: >I totally agree with Lynne. My vision is 20/30 with glasses, good >enough so I can drive a car, and very far from being legally blind. I >keep my monitor set to 800x600 and my browser text size set to largest >font. (See, I know how to adjust the settings.) > >I hate web pages with fixed fonts, especially those with less than 12 >point type. Most of the time I just skip those pages. (Did you put all >that effort into designing your page so people will skip it without >reading it?) I don't care how nice the page layout looks if I can't >read the text. If I really need to read the content, I copy it, paste >it into Word, and enlarge the font there. (So much for the page layout!) > >The Windows magnifying glass may be a good tool for enlarging pixils >but it's a terrible way to read a page. I defy anybody to use it on a >regular basis. Anyway, why should I need a magnifying glass to read >your web site? I thought the idea was to put out the information in a >form that will attract readers, not make things difficult for them. > >Jean Hewlett > >All opinions are my own, and do not represent my employers. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bob Rasmussen >Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:17 pm >Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > > >>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: >> >> >> >>>Erik, >>>The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes >>> >>> >>are concerned, >> >> >>>are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser >>> >>> >>(especially> if it's IE)... >> >>First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much >>controlas possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know >>how to size their >>window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an >>opportunity to >>help them take control of their computer system for other sites as >>well. >>Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things >>users can >>do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: >> >>1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display >>Properties, then >>Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. >>Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display >>operations. >> >>2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All >>Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a >>magnifier at >>the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area >>surroundingyour mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is >>useful for seeing >>exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. >> >>Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging >>eyes. Some >>display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various >>reasons. >> >>Regards, >>....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. >> >>personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com >>company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com >> voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) >> fax: (US) 503-624-0760 >> web: http://www.anzio.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From R.Brownlee at library.usyd.edu.au Wed Oct 19 19:21:07 2005 From: R.Brownlee at library.usyd.edu.au (Rowan Brownlee) Date: Wed Oct 19 19:21:12 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] conference video presentations Message-ID: <1129764067.4356d4e32f7c1@www-mail.usyd.edu.au> Hello all, Wouldn't it be great if more conference & seminar organisers provided access to video presentations? Imagine being able to hear & see the presenter rather than just downloading a paper or a powerpoint presentation. Here is an example of this sort of initiative in action. The subject matter may or may not be of interest but it is a great example of what is possible (& hopefully what will catch on). http://rdd.sub.uni-goettingen.de/conferences/ipres/programme We might see something like subscription based registers of conferences/seminars - all making their presentations available for download - select your preferences & the service would identify & notify you of related streams. bye rowan -- Rowan Brownlee Faculty Liaison Librarian - Biological Sciences & Electron Microscope Unit Badham Library Camperdown Campus University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia Phone +61 2 9036 9511 Fax +61 2 9351 3852 Email r.brownlee@library.usyd.edu.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ina.smith at up.ac.za Thu Oct 20 03:51:30 2005 From: ina.smith at up.ac.za (Ina Smith) Date: Thu Oct 20 03:52:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> Message-ID: Hallo Yuliya We are currently also going through a very comprehensive evaluation process of federated search engines and link resolvers at our university. Everything we did so far is available on our blog at http://fedsearch.blogspot.com We first conducted a literature survey, from which we compiled a comparative overview - also available on our blog. >From that we compiled an evaluation instrument (also on blog) with evaluation criteria. Currently we are in the process of interacting with the vendors. Each of the vendors gets an opportunity to demo their product via Interwise/WebFeat to 20+ evaluators (representative from 3 large universities in SA). We then have a Q&A session, followed by a hands-on session. Hope this is of some help, and good luck! Kind regards, Ina Smith Academic Information Service (Library) University of Pretoria Tel.: +27 12 420 3082 E-mail: ina.smith@up.ac.za This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Yuliya Lef Sent: 19 October 2005 21:45 To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Dear colleagues, We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you so much in advance, Yuliya ----------------------------- Yuliya Lef Virtual Library Coordinator Colorado Mountain College 333 Fiedler Ave. P.O. Box 1414 Dillon, CO 80435 970-468-5989 (phone) 970-468-5018 (fax) ylef@coloradomtn.edu http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From ina.smith at up.ac.za Thu Oct 20 05:27:07 2005 From: ina.smith at up.ac.za (ina.smith@up.ac.za) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:27:12 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Message-ID: Hallo Yuliya We are currently also going through a very comprehensive evaluation process of federated search engines and link resolvers at our university. Everything we did so far is available on our blog at http://fedsearch.blogspot.com We first conducted a literature survey, from which we compiled a comparative overview - also available on our blog. >From that we compiled an evaluation instrument (also on blog) with evaluation criteria. Currently we are in the process of interacting with the vendors. Each of the vendors gets an opportunity to demo their product via Interwise/WebFeat to 20+ evaluators (representative from 3 large universities in SA). We then have a Q&A session, followed by a hands-on session. Hope this is of some help, and good luck! Kind regards, Ina Smith Academic Information Service (Library) University of Pretoria Tel.: +27 12 420 3082 E-mail: ina.smith@up.ac.za This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Yuliya Lef Sent: 19 October 2005 21:45 To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Dear colleagues, We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you so much in advance, Yuliya ----------------------------- Yuliya Lef Virtual Library Coordinator Colorado Mountain College 333 Fiedler Ave. P.O. Box 1414 Dillon, CO 80435 970-468-5989 (phone) 970-468-5018 (fax) ylef@coloradomtn.edu http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:5E93009931A732603999BA5CB0905915 From ekraft at uiuc.edu Thu Oct 20 05:36:49 2005 From: ekraft at uiuc.edu (ekraft@uiuc.edu) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:36:54 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: Just to clarify: I'm all for relative font sizes that can be resized in all browsers. I know the fixed/frozen terminology gets confusing, but I was only addressing the issue of overall page width in my original post. On Nielsen's list, the overall page width issue is separate from the font size issue. Cheers, Erik. Norma Hewlett wrote: >I totally agree with Lynne. My vision is 20/30 with glasses, good >enough so I can drive a car, and very far from being legally blind. I >keep my monitor set to 800x600 and my browser text size set to largest >font. (See, I know how to adjust the settings.) > >I hate web pages with fixed fonts, especially those with less than 12 >point type. Most of the time I just skip those pages. (Did you put all >that effort into designing your page so people will skip it without >reading it?) I don't care how nice the page layout looks if I can't >read the text. If I really need to read the content, I copy it, paste >it into Word, and enlarge the font there. (So much for the page layout!) > >The Windows magnifying glass may be a good tool for enlarging pixils >but it's a terrible way to read a page. I defy anybody to use it on a >regular basis. Anyway, why should I need a magnifying glass to read >your web site? I thought the idea was to put out the information in a >form that will attract readers, not make things difficult for them. > >Jean Hewlett > >All opinions are my own, and do not represent my employers. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bob Rasmussen >Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:17 pm >Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > > >>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: >> >> >> >>>Erik, >>>The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes >>> >>> >>are concerned, >> >> >>>are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser >>> >>> >>(especially> if it's IE)... >> >>First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much >>controlas possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know >>how to size their >>window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an >>opportunity to >>help them take control of their computer system for other sites as >>well. >>Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things >>users can >>do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: >> >>1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display >>Properties, then >>Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. >>Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display >>operations. >> >>2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All >>Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a >>magnifier at >>the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area >>surroundingyour mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is >>useful for seeing >>exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. >> >>Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging >>eyes. Some >>display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various >>reasons. >> >>Regards, >>....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. >> >>personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com >>company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com >> voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) >> fax: (US) 503-624-0760 >> web: http://www.anzio.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Oct 20 05:39:39 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:39:44 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center Message-ID: Couldn't do any better than that site! A wiki is a great solution. Bill Drew drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Ward > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:57 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center > > The move of the web4lib list to the webjunction hosting > service prompted > an examination of our reference center and whether there are better > approaches for providing that content. Given the audience (us!) and > technology that's now available, moving to a wiki seems to be > a natural > choice and a way for everyone to contribute. _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:A670C09938B7DB30570942AE1DB5767D From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Oct 20 05:41:18 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (tdowling@ohiolink.edu) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:41:24 2005 Subject: semi-liquid layout (was Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005version) Message-ID: Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI) wrote: > >div#main {min-width: 650px; max-width: 900px; width: >expression(document.body.clientWidth > 900 ? "900px" : "auto");} > > > You may want to experiment with something like: min-width: 30em; max-width: 50em; I have some pages in place with directives like: width: 44em; max-width: 95%; At least IMO, the appropriate measurements for the width of a text block are relative to the font size, not physical or pixel dimensions. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:1EF5855C2D1B83FA47656F19F3DC9F09 From leo at leoklein.com Thu Oct 20 05:42:19 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (leo@leoklein.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:42:29 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Message-ID: Chris Gray wrote: > > In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write a > pac file, , and > teach your users to configure their browsers, for example, > . And therein lies the tale. "teach your users to configure their browsers" This is precisely what you'd want to avoid -- unless your goal is lifetime job security for your tech support team. I'd try scaring the IT Dept. to death with stories of round-the-clock customer support and hand-holding before embarking on this path. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:119392BA1A40AFAA0E51057AAA0549E6 From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 05:40:07 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:47:28 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C From ina.smith at up.ac.za Thu Oct 20 05:58:57 2005 From: ina.smith at up.ac.za (ina.smith@up.ac.za) Date: Thu Oct 20 05:59:07 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Message-ID: Hallo Yuliya We are currently also going through a very comprehensive evaluation process of federated search engines and link resolvers at our university. Everything we did so far is available on our blog at http://fedsearch.blogspot.com We first conducted a literature survey, from which we compiled a comparative overview - also available on our blog. >From that we compiled an evaluation instrument (also on blog) with evaluation criteria. Currently we are in the process of interacting with the vendors. Each of the vendors gets an opportunity to demo their product via Interwise/WebFeat to 20+ evaluators (representative from 3 large universities in SA). We then have a Q&A session, followed by a hands-on session. Hope this is of some help, and good luck! Kind regards, Ina Smith Academic Information Service (Library) University of Pretoria Tel.: +27 12 420 3082 E-mail: ina.smith@up.ac.za This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Yuliya Lef Sent: 19 October 2005 21:45 To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Dear colleagues, We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you so much in advance, Yuliya ----------------------------- Yuliya Lef Virtual Library Coordinator Colorado Mountain College 333 Fiedler Ave. P.O. Box 1414 Dillon, CO 80435 970-468-5989 (phone) 970-468-5018 (fax) ylef@coloradomtn.edu http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:5E93009931A732603999BA5CB0905915 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:44CC8EB676FBE6B04362F70015CC69D0 From leo at leoklein.com Thu Oct 20 06:00:49 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (leo@leoklein.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 06:00:55 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Message-ID: Chris Gray wrote: > > In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write a > pac file, , and > teach your users to configure their browsers, for example, > . And therein lies the tale. "teach your users to configure their browsers" This is precisely what you'd want to avoid -- unless your goal is lifetime job security for your tech support team. I'd try scaring the IT Dept. to death with stories of round-the-clock customer support and hand-holding before embarking on this path. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:119392BA1A40AFAA0E51057AAA0549E6 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:8FB9BD03B9A6D84FDC71988520757A5E From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 08:02:34 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 08:10:16 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:E822613BF12582E0B07A9435AEE90833 From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 08:19:37 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 08:19:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:E822613BF12582E0B07A9435AEE90833 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:1A2543FC380D4F3192B3E524D941E10F From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 09:30:14 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 09:30:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:E822613BF12582E0B07A9435AEE90833 From ina.smith at up.ac.za Thu Oct 20 09:57:51 2005 From: ina.smith at up.ac.za (ina.smith@up.ac.za) Date: Thu Oct 20 09:58:00 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Message-ID: Hallo Yuliya We are currently also going through a very comprehensive evaluation process of federated search engines and link resolvers at our university. Everything we did so far is available on our blog at http://fedsearch.blogspot.com We first conducted a literature survey, from which we compiled a comparative overview - also available on our blog. >From that we compiled an evaluation instrument (also on blog) with evaluation criteria. Currently we are in the process of interacting with the vendors. Each of the vendors gets an opportunity to demo their product via Interwise/WebFeat to 20+ evaluators (representative from 3 large universities in SA). We then have a Q&A session, followed by a hands-on session. Hope this is of some help, and good luck! Kind regards, Ina Smith Academic Information Service (Library) University of Pretoria Tel.: +27 12 420 3082 E-mail: ina.smith@up.ac.za This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. / Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Yuliya Lef Sent: 19 October 2005 21:45 To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Dear colleagues, We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you so much in advance, Yuliya ----------------------------- Yuliya Lef Virtual Library Coordinator Colorado Mountain College 333 Fiedler Ave. P.O. Box 1414 Dillon, CO 80435 970-468-5989 (phone) 970-468-5018 (fax) ylef@coloradomtn.edu http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:5E93009931A732603999BA5CB0905915 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:44CC8EB676FBE6B04362F70015CC69D0 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:AFA49F11413BF3EEACD8A08C795D9C33 From leo at leoklein.com Thu Oct 20 10:03:47 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (leo@leoklein.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:03:57 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ISAPI_Rewrite vs. EZproxy? Message-ID: Chris Gray wrote: > > In other words, on top of ISAPI_rewrite, you're going to need to write a > pac file, , and > teach your users to configure their browsers, for example, > . And therein lies the tale. "teach your users to configure their browsers" This is precisely what you'd want to avoid -- unless your goal is lifetime job security for your tech support team. I'd try scaring the IT Dept. to death with stories of round-the-clock customer support and hand-holding before embarking on this path. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:119392BA1A40AFAA0E51057AAA0549E6 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:8FB9BD03B9A6D84FDC71988520757A5E -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:F313BEE41AD767CAD39D45980FE61EA1 From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 10:10:52 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:10:59 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:E822613BF12582E0B07A9435AEE90833 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:1A2543FC380D4F3192B3E524D941E10F -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:83C715E620D6ECA765ECCF18090A8FEA From ras at anzio.com Thu Oct 20 10:10:57 2005 From: ras at anzio.com (ras@anzio.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:11:07 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > Erik, > The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes are concerned, > are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser (especially > if it's IE)... First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much control as possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system for other sites as well. Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: 1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display operations. 2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area surrounding your mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various reasons. Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:0FD8CE36C7D97D30BAEB4ADDAC70273C -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:E822613BF12582E0B07A9435AEE90833 -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:1A2543FC380D4F3192B3E524D941E10F From jaf30 at cornell.edu Thu Oct 20 10:15:46 2005 From: jaf30 at cornell.edu (John Fereira) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:15:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: References: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> I've been getting quite a few duplicate email messages from this list lately. Anyone else seeing it? From jilloneill at nfais.org Thu Oct 20 10:32:08 2005 From: jilloneill at nfais.org (Jill Oneill) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:32:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web 2.0 for the Information Community Message-ID: <000501c5d583$11a81f70$8002a8c0@nfais1> I'm hoping that subscribers to this list will find this upcoming November meeting in Philadelphia to be of interest. Web 2.0 is a buzz word for the tech community, but this NFAIS-sponsored, one-day event focuses on the concepts of Web 2.0 as specifically applicable to the information community (libraries, content providers, vendors, etc.). For a complete roster of speakers and topics, click through on http://www.nfais.org/events/event_details.cfm?id=33 All are welcome to register. Jill O'Neill Director, Planning & Communication NFAIS Voice: (215)893-1561 jilloneill@nfais.org From weblibrarian at sent.com Thu Oct 20 10:35:13 2005 From: weblibrarian at sent.com (Heather Ebey) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:35:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1129818913.23410.245620420@webmail.messagingengine.com> Yes, I have suddenly started getting duplicates too. --Heather On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:15:46 -0400, "John Fereira" said: > > I've been getting quite a few duplicate email messages from this list > lately. Anyone else seeing it? Heather, weblibrarian@sent.com http://librarianway.com/ From dih1 at cornell.edu Thu Oct 20 10:40:39 2005 From: dih1 at cornell.edu (Diane I. Hillmann) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:40:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: Yes, I'm seeing those too, and almost more annoying, everything from web4lib (except your message, John) seems to be coming with an attached text file named "gwavadat.txt" (or some variant). Houston, I think we have a problem ... Diane >I've been getting quite a few duplicate email messages from this >list lately. Anyone else seeing it? > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Diane I. Hillmann Research Librarian Cornell University Library Email: dih1@cornell.edu Voice: (607) 387-9207 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From elizabeth at avenue.org Thu Oct 20 10:47:09 2005 From: elizabeth at avenue.org (Elizabeth Harman) Date: Thu Oct 20 10:47:05 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20051020101455.02a4fe20@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <4357ADED.4000006@avenue.org> John Fereira wrote: > > I've been getting quite a few duplicate email messages from this list > lately. Anyone else seeing it? Aye, and all with attachments. Liz -- Liz Harman Internet Specialist Monticello Avenue From morville at semanticstudios.com Thu Oct 20 13:11:58 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:11:02 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Boston Lemur Party Message-ID: Endeca has generously agreed to sponsor an Ambient Findability Book Party... http://endeca.com/morville.html ...at Dillon's in Boston. And you're invited. Cheers! Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org From lists at lisnews.com Thu Oct 20 13:11:36 2005 From: lists at lisnews.com (Blake Carver) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:12:02 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34962.148.144.175.2.1129828296.squirrel@www.lishost.com> I think a wiki is a good idea for a reference ceter. In this case, wouldit make more sense to go with the LISWiki, it seems having less specialization sometimes is a good thing. http://liswiki.com -Blake Carver LISNews.com (LISHost.org, LISFeeds.com, but NOT affiliated with LISWikicom in anyway, I don't even host it.) > The move of the web4lib list to the webjunction hosting service prompted > an examination of our reference center and whether there are better > approaches for providing that content. Given the audience (us!) and > technology that's now available, moving to a wiki seems to be a natural > choice and a way for everyone to contribute. > > Meredith Farkas has established the Library Success wiki > and agrees that it would be an excellent new > home for the web4Lib reference center. Before switching over, I wanted to > get feedback from the community. If there are other solutions to consider, > or if you have additional comments to make, please let me know. > From FelkerK at wlu.edu Thu Oct 20 13:35:05 2005 From: FelkerK at wlu.edu (Kyle Felker) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:13:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ASP.net RSS parsing script Message-ID: Hi all; I'm looking to introduce support for parsing RSS feeds and using the content as part of our website, and since we are primarily a microsoft shop, I'm looking for RSS parsing scripts written in asp or asp.net. Something with functionality similar to PHPMagpie, if you're familiar with that. Anyone out there know of such a thing? Thanks for any help; -Kyle ********************************************** Kyle Felker Technology Coordinator Washington and Lee University Library Phone: 540-458-8653 Email: felkerk@wlu.edu Chat: geeklibrary (aol) techbookgeek (yahoo) ********************************************* From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Oct 20 15:34:36 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Oct 20 15:34:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20051020193435.134AA5703A7@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > a less-than-maximized browser window. Readability is a huge part of > usability, and this involves being able to reliably control white space > and line lengths on pages. I don't think Nielsen gets this, at all. (Not > that I wish to start a long debate about aspects of design that Nielsen > doesn't get--that could preoccupy the list for a very long time indeed!) The "pros and cons of Nielsen" wouldn't be such a bad thread; I'm not suggesting we go that route, but raising the issue that Nielsen ain't Gospel isn't a bad idea. Someone charging big bucks for usability advice who puts out a webpage like this: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/wysiwyg.html Where to begin? Not enough white space, text not constrained left to right on a big screen, text not differentiated enough... it's a big ol' text blorp. But then again, objections to Nielsen are just a Google away... Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Oct 20 15:46:23 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Thu Oct 20 15:45:05 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and usability god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand with much more practical experience and common sense. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From adarby at ithaca.edu Thu Oct 20 16:12:24 2005 From: adarby at ithaca.edu (Andrew Darby) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:12:30 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <4357FA28.3080005@ithaca.edu> Everybody, pile on! While you may not agree with everything he says, and may be put off by his (occasionally) schoolmarmish tone, I think it is a bit unfair to pick on poor Jakob Nielsen. He has, after all, been publishing in this field for decades, and rather than presenting a purely subjective opinion usually backs up his assertions with research. To accuse him of a lack of "practical experience" seems a bit rich. To accuse him of a deficiency of "common sense" seems the sort of ad hominem attack more suited to the political sphere . . . where is this pool of common sense, and how do i drink me some? And let's not forget--he gave us permission to do usability studies with only four or five subjects. That's surely a gift to those of us in the .edu domain. Andrew Darby Web Services Librarian Ithaca College Library http://www.ithaca.edu/library/ Drew, Bill wrote: > Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and usability > god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand with much more > practical experience and common sense. > > Bill Drew > drewwe@morrisville.edu > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From popp at indiana.edu Thu Oct 20 16:13:03 2005 From: popp at indiana.edu (Popp, Mary F.) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:13:15 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: While I agree that Nielsen is not perfect, I do not believe we should totally discount everything he says. Library directors as well as designers often have wonderful ideas for library web sites that include things like graphical menus where the fonts cannot be enlarged, fonts on the home page that are 8.5 points, and pages that cannot be printed off because they are too wide for a standard portrait printer. Neilsen's list of design mistakes is a good tool to consider the heuristics of a site design and to provide some talking points for discussions on design within a library. I say we use the tools he gives us, along with those of others who are well-versed in web design, and then apply our own judgment. What other practical and accessible tools of this sort from sources in LibraryLand can members of Web4Lib suggest for use in discussions with library colleagues and administrators? Mary ---------------------------------------------- Mary Pagliero Popp Public Services Librarian, Library Information Technology Indiana University Libraries, Wells Library E456 1320 E. 10th Street Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-8170 FAX: 812-856-7949 popp@indiana.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:46 PM To: kgs@bluehighways.com; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and usability god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand with much more practical experience and common sense. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jenne.heise at gmail.com Thu Oct 20 16:21:05 2005 From: jenne.heise at gmail.com (Jennifer Heise) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:21:08 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> However, the question of font size and page width are somewhat connected, as those who need large font sizes and images generally do browse with lower resolution views, even if they have to get someone to adjust their screen settings to do it. Someone else, in this thread, said that 'aesthetics play a part.' To be honest, after years of working with users on sites whose layout was designed by people who were concerned about the look, I don't buy that aesthetics qua aesthetics should play a part. What the real users who are using the pages to do something want and need should play a part, yes-- but that's their aesthetics, if anyone's, not ours Some users may like artificially added white space/margins on the sides of their pages and find it makes the page easier to use. Others may not. Your Users May Vary. I'm in the process of redesigning a site that uses fixed content widths and external margins, and I'm finding that the people who have used this site would like the margins to go away. I've been through 7 major website redesigns and worked with the end users afterwards, and I now have the theory that whenever a designer comes up a design principle or element that he/she thinks is extremely well-crafted and elegant, they should immediately strike it out, because it will almost always cause immense annoyance to the users when implemented. On 10/19/05, Erik Kraft wrote: > > Just to clarify: I'm all for relative font sizes that can be resized in > all browsers. I know the fixed/frozen terminology gets confusing, but I > was only addressing the issue of overall page width in my original post. > On Nielsen's list, the overall page width issue is separate from the > font size issue. > > Cheers, > > Erik. > > Norma Hewlett wrote: > > >I totally agree with Lynne. My vision is 20/30 with glasses, good > >enough so I can drive a car, and very far from being legally blind. I > >keep my monitor set to 800x600 and my browser text size set to largest > >font. (See, I know how to adjust the settings.) > > > >I hate web pages with fixed fonts, especially those with less than 12 > >point type. Most of the time I just skip those pages. (Did you put all > >that effort into designing your page so people will skip it without > >reading it?) I don't care how nice the page layout looks if I can't > >read the text. If I really need to read the content, I copy it, paste > >it into Word, and enlarge the font there. (So much for the page layout!) > > > >The Windows magnifying glass may be a good tool for enlarging pixils > >but it's a terrible way to read a page. I defy anybody to use it on a > >regular basis. Anyway, why should I need a magnifying glass to read > >your web site? I thought the idea was to put out the information in a > >form that will attract readers, not make things difficult for them. > > > >Jean Hewlett > > > >All opinions are my own, and do not represent my employers. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bob Rasmussen > >Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:17 pm > >Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > > > > > >>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Erik, > >>>The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes > >>> > >>> > >>are concerned, > >> > >> > >>>are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser > >>> > >>> > >>(especially> if it's IE)... > >> > >>First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much > >>controlas possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know > >>how to size their > >>window, or set their preferred font size, then that's an > >>opportunity to > >>help them take control of their computer system for other sites as > >>well. > >>Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things > >>users can > >>do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: > >> > >>1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display > >>Properties, then > >>Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI setting. > >>Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows display > >>operations. > >> > >>2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All > >>Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a > >>magnifier at > >>the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area > >>surroundingyour mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is > >>useful for seeing > >>exact pixel content when you're doing various design tasks. > >> > >>Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging > >>eyes. Some > >>display devices are coming out with higher dot density for various > >>reasons. > >> > >>Regards, > >>....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. > >> > >>personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com > >>company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com > >> voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) > >> fax: (US) 503-624-0760 > >> web: http://www.anzio.com > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Web4lib mailing list > >>Web4lib@webjunction.org > >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >Web4lib mailing list > >Web4lib@webjunction.org > >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From bardsley at u.washington.edu Thu Oct 20 16:51:03 2005 From: bardsley at u.washington.edu (Mark Bardsley) Date: Thu Oct 20 16:51:12 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200510202051.j9KKp31E015301@smtp.washington.edu> Jennifer, I am the one who said that aesthetics play a part. So of course I have to jump in and defend myself - it's the way of listservs... Fist, I think there is potential for blame to be placed on web technologies (those new fangled things are out of control). Of course you don't have many of the options we are talking about (font size increase, etc.) with books without reprinting them in a larger font. Second, regarding books, when they are published someone works on the aesthetics of the book and they do play a part in the user's experience. Websites are the same way. If I want to get a point across, the context of the point carries value. If someone can't get beyond the context to see the point that's my problem but one I am willing to live with. I for one am glad the WWW is not one mass of text. - Mark -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Heise Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:21 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version However, the question of font size and page width are somewhat connected, as those who need large font sizes and images generally do browse with lower resolution views, even if they have to get someone to adjust their screen settings to do it. Someone else, in this thread, said that 'aesthetics play a part.' To be honest, after years of working with users on sites whose layout was designed by people who were concerned about the look, I don't buy that aesthetics qua aesthetics should play a part. What the real users who are using the pages to do something want and need should play a part, yes-- but that's their aesthetics, if anyone's, not ours Some users may like artificially added white space/margins on the sides of their pages and find it makes the page easier to use. Others may not. Your Users May Vary. I'm in the process of redesigning a site that uses fixed content widths and external margins, and I'm finding that the people who have used this site would like the margins to go away. I've been through 7 major website redesigns and worked with the end users afterwards, and I now have the theory that whenever a designer comes up a design principle or element that he/she thinks is extremely well-crafted and elegant, they should immediately strike it out, because it will almost always cause immense annoyance to the users when implemented. On 10/19/05, Erik Kraft wrote: > > Just to clarify: I'm all for relative font sizes that can be resized > in all browsers. I know the fixed/frozen terminology gets confusing, > but I was only addressing the issue of overall page width in my original post. > On Nielsen's list, the overall page width issue is separate from the > font size issue. > > Cheers, > > Erik. > > Norma Hewlett wrote: > > >I totally agree with Lynne. My vision is 20/30 with glasses, good > >enough so I can drive a car, and very far from being legally blind. I > >keep my monitor set to 800x600 and my browser text size set to > >largest font. (See, I know how to adjust the settings.) > > > >I hate web pages with fixed fonts, especially those with less than 12 > >point type. Most of the time I just skip those pages. (Did you put > >all that effort into designing your page so people will skip it > >without reading it?) I don't care how nice the page layout looks if I > >can't read the text. If I really need to read the content, I copy it, > >paste it into Word, and enlarge the font there. (So much for the page > >layout!) > > > >The Windows magnifying glass may be a good tool for enlarging pixils > >but it's a terrible way to read a page. I defy anybody to use it on a > >regular basis. Anyway, why should I need a magnifying glass to read > >your web site? I thought the idea was to put out the information in a > >form that will attract readers, not make things difficult for them. > > > >Jean Hewlett > > > >All opinions are my own, and do not represent my employers. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bob Rasmussen > >Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:17 pm > >Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > > > > > >>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Lynne Puckett wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Erik, > >>>The biggest problem with fixed fonts, as far as my aging eyes > >>> > >>> > >>are concerned, > >> > >> > >>>are the ones with tiny type that will NOT enlarge in the browser > >>> > >>> > >>(especially> if it's IE)... > >> > >>First, I want to say that philosphically I support putting as much > >>controlas possible in the hands of the user. If they don't know how > >>to size their window, or set their preferred font size, then that's > >>an opportunity to help them take control of their computer system > >>for other sites as well. > >>Now, from the user's perspective. There are a couple of things users > >>can do to their Windows systems in general to increase visibility: > >> > >>1. Change the "DPI" of the monitor. If you go to Display Properties, > >>then Settings, then General (at least on XP), you'll find the DPI > >>setting. > >>Increasing the DPI setting yields larger text for most Windows > >>display operations. > >> > >>2. There is a handy magnifier in Start Menu:All > >>Programs:Accessories:Accessibility:Magnifier. This opens a magnifier > >>at the top of the screen, that shows a blowup of the screen area > >>surroundingyour mouse pointer. Besides reading small text, it is > >>useful for seeing exact pixel content when you're doing various > >>design tasks. > >> > >>Note that these things are issues for reasons other than aging eyes. > >>Some display devices are coming out with higher dot density for > >>various reasons. > >> > >>Regards, > >>....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. > >> > >>personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com > >>company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com > >> voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) > >> fax: (US) 503-624-0760 > >> web: http://www.anzio.com > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Web4lib mailing list > >>Web4lib@webjunction.org > >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >Web4lib mailing list > >Web4lib@webjunction.org > >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Oct 20 16:37:27 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:11:02 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4357FA28.3080005@ithaca.edu> Message-ID: <20051020203726.DD79C5703A9@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > Everybody, pile on! > > While you may not agree with everything he says, and may be put off by > his (occasionally) schoolmarmish tone, I think it is a bit unfair to > pick on poor Jakob Nielsen. Without lambasting Nielsen, I think it's ok to point out where he falls short. I'm not bothered by his schoolmarmish tone; and I like that yes, he makes it ok, even important, to do usability no matter what. I am also not surprised or concerned that someone who makes a living doing usability promotes himself as an expert. We are sometimes pathologically shy in our profession about asserting expertise. "Oh, pay me for doing my work? No please really, I'm just GRATEFUL for the experience!" Etc. But to know where he is weak is valuable, too. His advice for bloggers is surprisingly apropos, though I get whiplash reading it on a maximized browser screen: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/weblogs.html It's the best and worst of Nielsen. He does get promoted as the sine qua non of usability, and "do as I say, not as I do" is particularly bad advice in the usability field, so asking if--and where--he falls short is reasonable. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From daskey at ksu.edu Thu Oct 20 17:52:37 2005 From: daskey at ksu.edu (Dale Askey) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:53:04 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> References: <01LUDQWUOKLC001WGF@coloradomtn.edu> Message-ID: <435811A5.3090400@ksu.edu> At the risk of airing my dirty laundry in a very public space, I'd offer the following answer to Yuliya. First, a brief preface: I've been involved with two federated search product selection processes at two different ARL libraries. I've also spent most of the last two years working with either Ex Libris' MetaLib or Endeavor's ENCompass, so feel I have more than enough stored experience and frustrations with them and with federated searching to offer a useful opinion. Now the opinion: Federated searching is and, for the foreseeable future will remain, a deeply flawed enterprise. This is largely due to the differences between targets, but also due to the hash that some of the softwares out there make of what can/should be a relatively simple thing. Despite the flaws, however, it's worth pursuing federated searching, if only because a) it's going to get better with time, and b) even in its current state, you can do some cool things with it. If you compare MetaLib and ENCompass, the outcome is laughable. MetaLib's central knowledge base makes it the obvious winner, and that's just the first reason that this is the case. Unless you're fond of writing your own connections for a wide variety of z39.50, XML gateways, HTTP screen scrapes, etc., don't pay a lot of money for any federated search product unless it sits on top of a large and well-maintained knowledge base. I'd declare MetaLib the general winner in that category, although I'm sure someone (a vendor, perhaps?) out there is itching to take me on for saying that. Having just praised ML, however, I'll point out that it's interface is a royal pain in the keester. Having just returned from Access2005 in Edmonton, it's safe to say that x-server from Ex Libris, their attempt to offer an interface API to MetaLib, is not there quite yet. Even when it does get there, however, who will have the time and skills to build an interface essentially from scratch. We don't. Perhaps a better route, and one that makes sense for institutions that aren't dripping cash, is to look around at some of the more interesting things happening in the open-source world. Check out DBWiz from Simon Fraser University, for example (http://dbwiz.lib.sfu.ca/dbwiz/). It's in production at both SFU and at UWinnipeg. If you've got cash and want the most well-grounded tool, use MetaLib. If, however, you've got even a tiny amount of interest in trying to do something on your own using open-source software, then I'd suggest DBWiz or other such initiatives. Dale Yuliya Lef wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > We are considering purchasing a federated search software. As a result, I am > wondering if someone has done a comparison analysis between various products > or if there is one available online. If you would be willing to share your > findings or provide recommendations, I would very much appreciate it. > > Thank you so much in advance, > > Yuliya > > ----------------------------- > Yuliya Lef > Virtual Library Coordinator > Colorado Mountain College > 333 Fiedler Ave. > P.O. Box 1414 > Dillon, CO 80435 > 970-468-5989 (phone) > 970-468-5018 (fax) > ylef@coloradomtn.edu > http://www.coloradomtn.edu/library/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Dale Askey Web Development Librarian KSU Libraries 118 Hale Library Manhattan, KS 66506 (785) 532-7672 From lars at aronsson.se Thu Oct 20 18:14:08 2005 From: lars at aronsson.se (Lars Aronsson) Date: Thu Oct 20 18:14:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: Drew, Bill wrote: > Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and > usability god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand > with much more practical experience and common sense. Who is this AUTHOR, where did he come from, and why? Of course, as a librarian, you already looked him up in your catalog and right-clicked on his name to get the biography from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Nielsen_%28usability_consultant%29 In the mid 1990s Jakob Nielsen's books were the first to address usability on the web. There were already books on designing good user interfaces for text and window systems (Unix/X, Mac or Microsoft), but none for the web. You don't hear his name half as often now as in 1999. Web usability is perhaps not so much of an issue anymore, since the most fundamental mistakes are less and less common. -- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se From dwalker at csusm.edu Thu Oct 20 18:16:17 2005 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Thu Oct 20 18:16:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] ASP.net RSS parsing script Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B07E0B28A@priority> Hi Kyle, If you're just looking to convert RSS into HTML for your website, I would just use XSLT. In that way, you don't really need a .Net class for parsing the RSS into arrays, like MagpieRSS, you just need to design an XSLT style sheet and let the built-in XML server controls handle the actual parsing. --Dave -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Felker Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:35 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] ASP.net RSS parsing script Hi all; I'm looking to introduce support for parsing RSS feeds and using the content as part of our website, and since we are primarily a microsoft shop, I'm looking for RSS parsing scripts written in asp or asp.net. Something with functionality similar to PHPMagpie, if you're familiar with that. Anyone out there know of such a thing? Thanks for any help; -Kyle ********************************************** Kyle Felker Technology Coordinator Washington and Lee University Library Phone: 540-458-8653 Email: felkerk@wlu.edu Chat: geeklibrary (aol) techbookgeek (yahoo) ********************************************* _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From krichel at openlib.org Thu Oct 20 18:36:19 2005 From: krichel at openlib.org (Thomas Krichel) Date: Thu Oct 20 18:31:20 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <20051020223619.GH29949@openlib.org> Lars Aronsson writes > You don't hear his name half as often now as in 1999. Web usability > is perhaps not so much of an issue anymore, since the most > fundamental mistakes are less and less common. The fact that the Nielsen points out old errors in his 2005 list suggests to me that old sins die hard. As a laugh, look at the "faculty aerobics" at what is supposed to be be one of the best US library schools: http://istweb.syr.edu/facstaff/ Can there be something more silly? I think it is hard to beat, but I am happy to read other suggestions for worst web design sins in library land. Cheers, Thomas Krichel mailto:krichel@openlib.org http://openlib.org/home/krichel RePEc:per:1965-06-05:thomas_krichel From dwalker at csusm.edu Thu Oct 20 18:45:49 2005 From: dwalker at csusm.edu (David Walker) Date: Thu Oct 20 18:45:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B07E0B28B@priority> >> Even when [the Metalib X-Server] does get there, >> however, who will have the time and skills to build >> an interface essentially from scratch. We don't. Well, I guess we do, since we are building an interface from scratch here at Cal State San Marcos using the Metalib X-Server -- as are three or four other libraries. But we are an early adopter of the X-Server. As soon as we finish our work here at San Marcos, we'll make our code open source (and I hope the other X-Server libraries will as well), so that new libraries who are interested in using the Metalib X-Server can start building their interfaces from . . . well, some point after scratch. It's actually not that difficult to make an interface against an XML-based API. A little code to pass information back and forth and XSLT to make it pretty. So I guess there's actually a middle point between commercial and open source metasearch system -- and that is to have a group of libraries sharing open source code for the interface to a system, while the vendor maintains the underlying application and knowledgebase. I think that can actually work out really well. If I am going to spend my time working on a metasearch system and sharing code, I would much rather spend it on the interface (which is the most important part of the system) than building Z39.50 and other types of connections. --Dave ================= David Walker Web Development Librarian Library Cal State San Marcos 760-750-4379 ================= From lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us Thu Oct 20 19:53:29 2005 From: lpuckett at billings.lib.mt.us (Lynne Puckett) Date: Thu Oct 20 19:53:28 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43582DF9.9040100@billings.lib.mt.us> Popp, Mary F. wrote: > [snip] > What other practical and accessible tools of this sort from sources in > LibraryLand can members of Web4Lib suggest for use in discussions with > library colleagues and administrators? > > Mary > ---------------------------------------------- Howdy, folks! One of my favorite usability sites (not library related, but good anyway) is: http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/ These guys have a sense of humor, and hold their own site up for laughs as well, on purpose. Here's a short quote on their web-design philosophy: Nobody cares about you or your site. Really. What visitors care about is getting their problems solved. Most people visit a web site to solve one or more of the following three problems. 1. They want/need information 2. They want/need to make a purchase / donation. 3. They want/need to be entertained. Too many organizations believe that a web site is about opening a new marketing channel or getting donations or to promote a brand. No. It's about solving your customers' problems. Have I said that phrase enough? They emphasize that any design elements that interfere with your primary goal is a hindrance, not a help. Defining the goal is the big problem. I don't know that I practice what they preach, but I'd like to think I'm trying. It's very basic and practical, and I like that. Lynne -- L. E. Puckett Reference & Electronic Systems Librarian Parmly Billings Library 510 North Broadway, Billings, MT 59101 http://www.billings.lib.mt.us Ph: 406-657-8258 From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Oct 20 16:29:56 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:21:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051020202956.757D9570364@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > I've been through 7 major website redesigns and worked with the end users > afterwards, and I now have the theory that whenever a designer comes up a > design principle or element that he/she thinks is extremely well-crafted > and > elegant, they should immediately strike it out, because it will almost > always cause immense annoyance to the users when implemented. Funny play on Johnson's words--"where ever you meet with a passage which you think is particularly fine, strike it out"--though I might change it with "or test it out." Your users will tell you if they don't like it, and I find it much more convincing to persuade a designer with proof. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From ekraft at uiuc.edu Thu Oct 20 22:20:07 2005 From: ekraft at uiuc.edu (Erik Kraft) Date: Thu Oct 20 22:20:15 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> Jennifer Heise wrote: >Someone else, in this thread, said that 'aesthetics play a part.' >To be honest, after years of working with users on sites whose layout was >designed by people who were concerned about the look, I don't buy that >aesthetics qua aesthetics should play a part. What the real users who are >using the pages to do something want and need should play a part, yes-- but >that's their aesthetics, if anyone's, not ours > > I don't think I, or anyone else in this thread, was arguing for "aesthetics qua aesthetics." To pit usability and aesthetics against each other is an utterly false dichotomy. There is no reason why a design cannot be both highly usable and highly attractive. >I've been through 7 major website redesigns and worked with the end users >afterwards, and I now have the theory that whenever a designer comes up a >design principle or element that he/she thinks is extremely well-crafted and >elegant, they should immediately strike it out, because it will almost >always cause immense annoyance to the users when implemented. > > In my original post, I was arguing that it's important, for the sake of readability, to be able to control line widths and white space on a page. I don't accept that the hard thinking I do on these points and other aspects of design is causing anyone "immense annoyance." I'm not talking about adding obnoxious Flash elements to a page for the sake of blinging it up; I'm talking about following principles of good design that have been around for ages. Of course I'm not going to argue that seeking user input is a bad thing, but I don't think that every design decision should come down to obsessive opinion polling and focus grouping. Erik. From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Thu Oct 20 23:07:48 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Thu Oct 20 23:07:39 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B07E0B28B@priority> References: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B07E0B28B@priority> Message-ID: <3B0F9F2F-3382-48DD-A1FC-373B160713F4@ucop.edu> And I'd also like to point out that the amazing work that David is doing is the end result of...wait for it...part of one person. Sure, he's an uncommon person, but it's not like you have to have a roomful of programmers. Roy On Oct 20, 2005, at 3:45 PM, David Walker wrote: >>> Even when [the Metalib X-Server] does get there, >>> however, who will have the time and skills to build >>> an interface essentially from scratch. We don't. >>> > > Well, I guess we do, since we are building an interface from scratch > here at Cal State San Marcos using the Metalib X-Server -- as are > three > or four other libraries. > > But we are an early adopter of the X-Server. As soon as we finish our > work here at San Marcos, we'll make our code open source (and I > hope the > other X-Server libraries will as well), so that new libraries who are > interested in using the Metalib X-Server can start building their > interfaces from . . . well, some point after scratch. > > It's actually not that difficult to make an interface against an > XML-based API. A little code to pass information back and forth and > XSLT to make it pretty. > > So I guess there's actually a middle point between commercial and open > source metasearch system -- and that is to have a group of libraries > sharing open source code for the interface to a system, while the > vendor > maintains the underlying application and knowledgebase. > > I think that can actually work out really well. If I am going to > spend > my time working on a metasearch system and sharing code, I would much > rather spend it on the interface (which is the most important part of > the system) than building Z39.50 and other types of connections. > > > --Dave > > ================= > David Walker > Web Development Librarian > Library > Cal State San Marcos > 760-750-4379 > ================= > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Fri Oct 21 07:08:42 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Fri Oct 21 07:09:28 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <200510191827.j9JIRjeq001222@smtp.washington.edu> (bardsley@u.washington.edu) References: <200510191827.j9JIRjeq001222@smtp.washington.edu> Message-ID: <20051021110842.E760243F48@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:27:45 -0700 > From: "Mark Bardsley" > > I recently redesigned a website and it looked bad on a high res > screen with a width of 1600 pixels because a paragraph looked like > one long stretched sentence. My solution was to put a maximum width > on the divs containing the content and navigation bar. This is good -- what you're implementing here is not a _fixed_ width (which is an evil thing) but a _maximum_ width (which is helpful to stop lines of text getting too long for comfortable reading). I hate hate HATE fixed-width layouts. It is absolutely not a writer's job to dictate to me how big my window has to be. As a matter of course, I spend most of my days with a text-editor and a web-browser side-by-side on my screen. On a 1280-pixel-wide screen, that is still just about possible for many sites; on my 1024-pixel laptop, it's not. And I hate that. > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:51:03 -0700 > From: "Mark Bardsley" > > I think there is potential for blame to be placed on web > technologies (those new fangled things are out of control). Of > course you don't have many of the options we are talking about (font > size increase, etc.) with books without reprinting them in a larger > font. Books _have_ to have their design fixed by their creators, because they are concrete physical objects. One of the many wonderful things that computers bring to the party is separation of content and presentation, so that the reader can choose how the content should look (window size, font size, etc.) It is a horrible mistake to impose the limitations of an old medium on a new one. [Apologies if I am coming over as rather dogmatic here. That's because, er, I _am_ rather dogmatic!] _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "Artists would like to ignore the business side: to some extent you can, and to another extent you can't" -- Alvin Sylvain. From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Oct 21 08:31:45 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Fri Oct 21 08:31:50 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> Erik Kraft wrote: > In my original post, I was arguing that it's important, for the sake of > readability, to be able to control line widths and white space on a > page. Erik is right about readability. The problem is that the vast majority of web pages that attempt to enforce width restrictions are created by people who don't think in terms of readability and typographical concepts like "line length", and couldn't tell you a reasonable way to measure that length. As a result, that vast majority really does cause immense annoyance for anyone whose display environment is not a close match to the designer's, and the line length (measured in characters per line) ends up being anywhere from half as wide to twice as wide as the designer thought he specified. Readability goes out the door. Referring back to Nielsen's column, the specific problems his users identified with fixed page widths were: * On big monitors, websites are difficult to use if they don't resize with the window. Conversely, if users have a small window and a page doesn't use a liquid layout, it triggers insufferable horizontal scrolling. * The rightmost part of a page is cut off when printing a frozen page. This is especially true for Europeans, who use narrower paper (A4) than Americans. I don't think you can deny those are problems with typical fixed-width pages. Solve those problems, and you're free to manage line length issues as you see fit. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From ekraft at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 21 09:22:19 2005 From: ekraft at uiuc.edu (Erik Kraft) Date: Fri Oct 21 09:22:29 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <4358EB8B.3080602@uiuc.edu> Thomas Dowling wrote: >Erik Kraft wrote: > > > >>In my original post, I was arguing that it's important, for the sake of >>readability, to be able to control line widths and white space on a >>page. >> >> > > >Erik is right about readability. The problem is that the vast majority >of web pages that attempt to enforce width restrictions are created by >people who don't think in terms of readability and typographical >concepts like "line length", and couldn't tell you a reasonable way to >measure that length. As a result, that vast majority really does cause >immense annoyance for anyone whose display environment is not a close >match to the designer's, and the line length (measured in characters per >line) ends up being anywhere from half as wide to twice as wide as the >designer thought he specified. Readability goes out the door. > > Fair enough--I agree that a well-meaning but not-typographically-informed designer is liable to cause more annoyance than good. I'm probably a slightly weird librarian in that my idea of fun weekend reading lately has been books like Bringhurst's Elements of Typographic Style and Spiekermann's Stop Stealing Sheep..., but this is a relatively recent enthusiasm for me, and I wouldn't want anyone with a keen typographic eye to look at pages I worked on a year ago. >Referring back to Nielsen's column, the specific problems his users >identified with fixed page widths were: > > * On big monitors, websites are difficult to use if they don't > resize with the window. Conversely, if users have a small > window and a page doesn't use a liquid layout, it triggers > insufferable horizontal scrolling. > > * The rightmost part of a page is cut off when printing a frozen > page. This is especially true for Europeans, who use narrower > paper (A4) than Americans. > > >I don't think you can deny those are problems with typical fixed-width >pages. Solve those problems, and you're free to manage line length >issues as you see fit. > > Well, the second issue is easily solvable with an alternate style sheet for print media. As for the first, I suppose this is the whole crux of the argument (excepting the horizontal-scrollbars-at-low-resolution, which I agree are diabolical), so we might need to agree to disagree here. I will say, though, that the thing that initially got my hackles up about this piece was Nielsen's assertion that "on big monitors, websites are difficult to use if they don't resize with the window." Difficult how, exactly? I'm currently working on a 19" LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024 resolution. If I visit the Yale Library website (which happens to be my favorite library site design, and one that employs a fixed width layout) in a maximized browser window, it doesn't suddenly become "difficult to use" because it's not filling up my screen. Where it *might* become difficult to use is if the content flowed laterally to fill the width of my browser window and the spatial relationships between objects on the page, which the designers clearly put a lot of thought into, were lost. I'm sure everyone's good and sick of me clogging their inboxes by now, so I'll bugger off now. :) Have a good weekend, all. Cheers, Erik. From CAGimon at mplib.org Fri Oct 21 10:14:26 2005 From: CAGimon at mplib.org (Gimon, Charles A) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:14:44 2005 Subject: FW: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <7004EEA23644D84183003AE7B2A53EC30106EEF0@alpha.mpls.lib.mn.us> "the spatial relationships between objects on the page, which the designers clearly put a lot of thought into, were lost."... Worth noting in passing that if you are communicating important info via spatial relationships, that could become an accessibility issue. Doesn't *have* to, but it could. --Charles Gimon Web Coordinator Minneapolis Public Library From campbell at virginia.edu Fri Oct 21 10:52:46 2005 From: campbell at virginia.edu (Jim Campbell) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:53:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B07E0B28B@priority> Message-ID: <20051021145315.0E7221BF92@fork3.mail.virginia.edu> Actually a lot of vendors are already using this approach, letting MuseGlobal or WebFeat maintain the connections and then building an interface on top. Sirsi, Endeavor, Innovative, Ovid, etc have all done that with Muse; Dynix, etc. with WebFeat. - Jim Campbell Campbell@Virginia.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of David Walker > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:46 PM > To: Dale Askey; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Federated search products > > >> Even when [the Metalib X-Server] does get there, however, who will > >> have the time and skills to build an interface essentially from > >> scratch. We don't. > > Well, I guess we do, since we are building an interface from > scratch here at Cal State San Marcos using the Metalib > X-Server -- as are three or four other libraries. > > But we are an early adopter of the X-Server. As soon as we > finish our work here at San Marcos, we'll make our code open > source (and I hope the other X-Server libraries will as > well), so that new libraries who are interested in using the > Metalib X-Server can start building their interfaces from . . > . well, some point after scratch. > > It's actually not that difficult to make an interface against > an XML-based API. A little code to pass information back and > forth and XSLT to make it pretty. > > So I guess there's actually a middle point between commercial > and open source metasearch system -- and that is to have a > group of libraries sharing open source code for the interface > to a system, while the vendor maintains the underlying > application and knowledgebase. > > I think that can actually work out really well. If I am > going to spend my time working on a metasearch system and > sharing code, I would much rather spend it on the interface > (which is the most important part of the system) than > building Z39.50 and other types of connections. > > > --Dave > > ================= > David Walker > Web Development Librarian > Library > Cal State San Marcos > 760-750-4379 > ================= > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From catherinel at galesburglibrary.org Fri Oct 21 11:10:56 2005 From: catherinel at galesburglibrary.org (Catherine Lemmer) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:07:43 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? Message-ID: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> I heard Stephen Abram, past president of the Candian Library Association, and current VP of Innovations at SirsiDynix speak at the Illinois Library Association Conference last week. Despite feeling like I was walking into a wind tunnel (ie, way behind the times), I felt truly inspired to be in our profession. Anyway, he mentioned folksonomies and tagging. Can someone offer a brief explanation of these? His powerpoint presentation is available on the Alliance Library System (Peoria, IL) site. www.alliancelibrarysystem.com Catherine A. Lemmer Head of Reference Galesburg Public Library 40 E. Simmons Street Galesburg, IL 61401 Phone 309.343.6118 Fax 309.343.4877 catherinel@galesburglibrary.org From jweible at uiuc.edu Fri Oct 21 11:15:38 2005 From: jweible at uiuc.edu (John Weible) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:15:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Federated search products In-Reply-To: <20051021145315.0E7221BF92@fork3.mail.virginia.edu> References: <20051021145315.0E7221BF92@fork3.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <4359061A.80704@uiuc.edu> Not quite. Our consortium purchased WebFeat via Dynix and we are now implementing it. Dynix has not done any work on top of WebFeat nor does WebFeat provide any APIs or other mechanisms for us to build around its search engine in the fashion described with MetaLib X-Server. John Weible Head of Library Systems University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign email: jweible@uiuc.edu phone: 217-244-4688 Jim Campbell wrote: >Actually a lot of vendors are already using this approach, letting >MuseGlobal or WebFeat maintain the connections and then building an >interface on top. Sirsi, Endeavor, Innovative, Ovid, etc have all done that >with Muse; Dynix, etc. with WebFeat. > >- Jim Campbell >Campbell@Virginia.edu > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of David Walker >>Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:46 PM >>To: Dale Askey; web4lib@webjunction.org >>Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Federated search products >> >> >> >>>>Even when [the Metalib X-Server] does get there, however, who will >>>>have the time and skills to build an interface essentially from >>>>scratch. We don't. >>>> >>>> >>Well, I guess we do, since we are building an interface from >>scratch here at Cal State San Marcos using the Metalib >>X-Server -- as are three or four other libraries. >> >>But we are an early adopter of the X-Server. As soon as we >>finish our work here at San Marcos, we'll make our code open >>source (and I hope the other X-Server libraries will as >>well), so that new libraries who are interested in using the >>Metalib X-Server can start building their interfaces from . . >>. well, some point after scratch. >> >>It's actually not that difficult to make an interface against >>an XML-based API. A little code to pass information back and >>forth and XSLT to make it pretty. >> >>So I guess there's actually a middle point between commercial >>and open source metasearch system -- and that is to have a >>group of libraries sharing open source code for the interface >>to a system, while the vendor maintains the underlying >>application and knowledgebase. >> >>I think that can actually work out really well. If I am >>going to spend my time working on a metasearch system and >>sharing code, I would much rather spend it on the interface >>(which is the most important part of the system) than >>building Z39.50 and other types of connections. >> >> >>--Dave >> >>================= >>David Walker >>Web Development Librarian >>Library >>Cal State San Marcos >>760-750-4379 >>================= >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Fri Oct 21 11:31:15 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:31:45 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511C18@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: On Oct 20, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Drew, Bill wrote: > Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and > usability > god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand with much more > practical experience and common sense. This statement is testimony to why all library web sites suck. But, hey, you're the expert, right? -Ross. From mattgrayson at utmem.edu Fri Oct 21 11:35:18 2005 From: mattgrayson at utmem.edu (Matt Grayson) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:35:26 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? In-Reply-To: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> References: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> Message-ID: <97F92ED4-7341-4BD0-9508-95F3EDEC45DB@utmem.edu> In a nutshell, folksonomies are informal, ad hoc taxonomies created by users instead of "subject experts." I could open a can of worms on this list regarding folksonomies, but I'll leave that pleasure to someone else. For examples of folksonomy/tagging in practice see http://del.icio.us or http://flickr.com matt On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:10 AM, Catherine Lemmer wrote: > I heard Stephen Abram, past president of the Candian Library > Association, and > current VP of Innovations at SirsiDynix speak at the Illinois > Library Association > Conference last week. Despite feeling like I was walking into a > wind tunnel (ie, way > behind the times), I felt truly inspired to be in our profession. > Anyway, he mentioned > folksonomies and tagging. Can someone offer a brief explanation of > these? His > powerpoint presentation is available on the Alliance Library System > (Peoria, IL) site. > www.alliancelibrarysystem.com > > > Catherine A. Lemmer > Head of Reference > Galesburg Public Library > 40 E. Simmons Street > Galesburg, IL 61401 > Phone 309.343.6118 > Fax 309.343.4877 > catherinel@galesburglibrary.org > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Matt Grayson ------------------------------------------------------ Web Services Librarian UTHSC Health Sciences Library ------------------------------------------------------ From laura.dixon at bassett.org Fri Oct 21 11:44:43 2005 From: laura.dixon at bassett.org (dixon, laura) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:45:34 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Favorite Library Websites? Message-ID: Erik Kraft wrote: >If I visit the Yale Library website > (which happens to be my favorite library >site design, and one that employs a fixed width layout) in a maximized >browser window, it doesn't suddenly become "difficult to use" because >it's not filling up my screen. I've been following the usability thread with great interest and wonder if anyone else has a "favorite" library site design they'd like to hold up as an exemplar? Thanks! Laura Dixon Systems Librarian Mackenzie Medical Library Laura.Dixon@bassett.org NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This electronic message, including attachments, is for the sole use of the named recipient and may contain confidential or privileged information protected by New York State, and Federal regulations. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this communication in error please contact the sender or email.security@bassett.org and destroy all copies of the original message. Thank you. From morville at semanticstudios.com Fri Oct 21 11:46:26 2005 From: morville at semanticstudios.com (Peter Morville) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:46:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? In-Reply-To: <97F92ED4-7341-4BD0-9508-95F3EDEC45DB@utmem.edu> Message-ID: Here's a brief introduction that notes the origin of the term: http://atomiq.org/archives/2004/08/folksonomy_social_classification.html And for more than an introduction, here are popular articles tagged with "folksonomy": http://del.icio.us/popular/folksonomy Cheers! Peter Morville President, Semantic Studios http://semanticstudios.com http://findability.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Matt Grayson Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:35 AM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: Re: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? In a nutshell, folksonomies are informal, ad hoc taxonomies created by users instead of "subject experts." I could open a can of worms on this list regarding folksonomies, but I'll leave that pleasure to someone else. For examples of folksonomy/tagging in practice see http://del.icio.us or http://flickr.com matt On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:10 AM, Catherine Lemmer wrote: > I heard Stephen Abram, past president of the Candian Library > Association, and > current VP of Innovations at SirsiDynix speak at the Illinois > Library Association > Conference last week. Despite feeling like I was walking into a > wind tunnel (ie, way > behind the times), I felt truly inspired to be in our profession. > Anyway, he mentioned > folksonomies and tagging. Can someone offer a brief explanation of > these? His > powerpoint presentation is available on the Alliance Library System > (Peoria, IL) site. > www.alliancelibrarysystem.com > > > Catherine A. Lemmer > Head of Reference > Galesburg Public Library > 40 E. Simmons Street > Galesburg, IL 61401 > Phone 309.343.6118 > Fax 309.343.4877 > catherinel@galesburglibrary.org > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > -- Matt Grayson ------------------------------------------------------ Web Services Librarian UTHSC Health Sciences Library ------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From leo at leoklein.com Fri Oct 21 12:10:23 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Fri Oct 21 12:10:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> Thomas Dowling wrote: > Erik is right about readability. The problem is that the vast majority > of web pages that attempt to enforce width restrictions are created by > people who don't think in terms of readability and typographical > concepts like "line length", and couldn't tell you a reasonable way to > measure that length. As a result, that vast majority really does cause > immense annoyance for anyone whose display environment is not a close > match to the designer's, and the line length (measured in characters per > line) ends up being anywhere from half as wide to twice as wide as the > designer thought he specified. Readability goes out the door. Life must be hell for those for whom fixed width is an "immense annoynance" since it seems there are a helluva lot of sites that make use of it: AOL, C-Net, Salon, NYTimes.com, Libary of Congress... In any case, I think the whole argument is a bit overwrought. If people don't like going to these sites, they won't -- and that's the ultimate test. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From gwiseman at ci.waco.tx.us Fri Oct 21 10:49:04 2005 From: gwiseman at ci.waco.tx.us (Gillian Wiseman) Date: Fri Oct 21 12:17:46 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <30E92055125F674FA2690338CFE2772103E67FAE@wacont.cow.local> I've been following this discussion with interest, but I have a slightly different need when discussing "bad web pages". I try to teach my patron-students in library computer classes how to recognize "bad pages" that are either - a) unreliable information sources or b)untrustworthy shopping sites. Of course, we discuss all the standards of 1)who wrote the page, 2)the reason/motive for them to have written the page, 3) the source(s) of the information given, 4) contact info (especially when money is involved) etc... but I'd love to find some really clear examples of "bad" pages from this point of view. I can find tacky sites, misinforming or untruthful sites, and sites that lack contact info, but I am having a hard time finding a single site that has multiple failings that would be handy to use in class! Can anyone suggest one that would also NOT be TOO likely to offend patrons in a public library? Thanks! Gillian Wiseman Electronic Resources Librarian Waco-McLennan County Library gwiseman@ci.waco.tx.us From jtrant at archimuse.com Fri Oct 21 12:16:22 2005 From: jtrant at archimuse.com (J. Trant) Date: Fri Oct 21 12:18:23 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? In-Reply-To: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> References: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> Message-ID: Catherine, For a good introduction, try Social Bookmarking Tools (I): A General Review Tony Hammond, Timo Hannay, Ben Lund, and Joanna Scott http://www.dlib.org/dlib/april05/hammond/04hammond.html and their case study of Social Bookmarking Tools (II): A Case Study - Connotea Ben Lund, Tony Hammond, Martin Flack and Timo Hannay http://www.dlib.org/dlib/april05/lund/04lund.html Our recent article explores possibilities in the Museum world: Social Terminology Enhancement through Vernacular Engagement: Exploring Collaborative Annotation to Encourage Interaction with Museum Collections http://www.dlib.org/dlib/september05/bearman/09bearman.html David Bearman and Jennifer Trant Enjoy! jennifer At 10:10 AM -0500 10/21/05, Catherine Lemmer wrote: >I heard Stephen Abram, past president of the Candian Library Association, and >current VP of Innovations at SirsiDynix speak at the Illinois >Library Association >Conference last week. Despite feeling like I was walking into a >wind tunnel (ie, way >behind the times), I felt truly inspired to be in our profession. >Anyway, he mentioned >folksonomies and tagging. Can someone offer a brief explanation of >these? His >powerpoint presentation is available on the Alliance Library System >(Peoria, IL) site. >www.alliancelibrarysystem.com > > >Catherine A. Lemmer >Head of Reference >Galesburg Public Library >40 E. Simmons Street >Galesburg, IL 61401 >Phone 309.343.6118 >Fax 309.343.4877 >catherinel@galesburglibrary.org > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ -- __________ J. Trant jtrant@archimuse.com Partner & Principal Consultant phone: +1 416 691 2516 Archives & Museum Informatics fax: +1 416 352 6025 158 Lee Ave, Toronto Ontario M4E 2P3 Canada http://www.archimuse.com __________ From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Fri Oct 21 12:30:09 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Fri Oct 21 12:30:58 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> (message from Leo Robert Klein on Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:10:23 -0500) References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> Message-ID: <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:10:23 -0500 > From: Leo Robert Klein > > Life must be hell for those for whom fixed width is an "immense > annoynance" since it seems there are a helluva lot of sites that > make use of it: AOL, C-Net, Salon, NYTimes.com, Libary of > Congress... Yes. > In any case, I think the whole argument is a bit overwrought. If > people don't like going to these sites, they won't -- and that's the > ultimate test. And guess what? I don't. I _never_ go to AOL, C-Net, Salon of NYT, and only rarely to the LC site as my job dictates. I'm sure I'm not alone. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "Major changes in release 1.8: `date' doesn't dump core on some systems now" -- FSF release note (what about the other systems?) From mdehmlow at nd.edu Fri Oct 21 12:58:26 2005 From: mdehmlow at nd.edu (Mark Dehmlow) Date: Fri Oct 21 12:58:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Call for Speakers Message-ID: <43591E32.3010301@nd.edu> We are looking for speakers for the RUSA MARS Hot Topics Discussion Group to be held January 21st 10:30 - 12:00, at the ALA Midwinter conference in San Antonio. The session, tentatively titled,/ Integrating Electronic Reference Resources into the Library/, will likely be a mix of 2-3 presentations followed by group discussion. We seek presenters who can speak about some of the following topics: transitioning from print only reference collections to hybrid collections, the development of web applications that facilitate access to electronic reference resources, integration of reference resources into course management systems, OPACs, metasearch tools, and/or chat email software, etc. Case studies are sought from all types of libraries. Interested speakers should contact either Matthew Bejune mbejune@purdue.edu or Mark Dehmlow mdehmlow@nd.edu, Chair and Co Chair of the Hot Topics in Electronic Reference Discussion Group by November 1st. Best Wishes, -- Mark Dehmlow Electronic Services Librarian Electronic Resources and Serials Access Department 211 Hesburgh Library | mdehmlow@nd.edu University of Notre Dame | voice: (574) 631-3092 Notre Dame, IN 46556 | fax: (574) 631-8887 From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Fri Oct 21 13:00:16 2005 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Fri Oct 21 13:01:51 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <30E92055125F674FA2690338CFE2772103E67FAE@wacont.cow.local> References: <30E92055125F674FA2690338CFE2772103E67FAE@wacont.cow.local> Message-ID: <2294.24.210.101.119.1129914016.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Gillian, One of my favorite examples of an unreliable site is the "Lake Michigan Whale Watching". Unlike the examples you listed below, this site goes out of its way to appear to be legit. In fact, it was convincing enough that it made its way into an educational publication in an article "'Thar She Blows!' In Michigan?" that discussed the whale watching in Lake Michigan, all based on this web site. As you expect, this caused much embarassment for the publication and a lot of laughs around Michigan. It would provide a good contrast with bad examples to show that even sites that appear to be on the up-and-up can still be completely unreliable. Here's the site and a short discussion on the article that followed: http://www.geocities.com/lakemichiganwhales/ http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/web/WHALES/retraction.htm Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI > I've been following this discussion with interest, but I have a slightly > different need when discussing "bad web pages". I try to teach my > patron-students in library computer classes how to recognize "bad pages" > that are either - a) unreliable information sources or b)untrustworthy > shopping sites. > > Of course, we discuss all the standards of 1)who wrote the page, 2)the > reason/motive for them to have written the page, 3) the source(s) of the > information given, 4) contact info (especially when money is involved) > etc... but I'd love to find some really clear examples of "bad" pages from > this point of view. I can find tacky sites, misinforming or untruthful > sites, and sites that lack contact info, but I am having a hard time > finding > a single site that has multiple failings that would be handy to use in > class! > > Can anyone suggest one that would also NOT be TOO likely to offend patrons > in a public library? > > Thanks! > > Gillian Wiseman > Electronic Resources Librarian > Waco-McLennan County Library > gwiseman@ci.waco.tx.us > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From leo at leoklein.com Fri Oct 21 13:05:48 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Fri Oct 21 13:05:55 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> Mike Taylor wrote: > > And guess what? I don't. I _never_ go to AOL, C-Net, Salon of NYT, > and only rarely to the LC site as my job dictates. > > I'm sure I'm not alone. I forgot to add Yahoo, Sun Microsystems and IBM. The whole point is these are high-traffic'ed sites. If they are in the majority, then what they do by default is a "convention". You might want to argue against them but I'm not quite sure how successful you'll be. But going one way or the other is a design decision. It's based on where you think the vast majority of your users are. If you think the vast majority of your users have monitors set at 1600x1200 and love resizing their windows to get the text right, then you'll design your site with them in mind. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Oct 21 13:56:10 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Fri Oct 21 13:56:13 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> Message-ID: <43592BBA.7070102@ohiolink.edu> Leo Robert Klein wrote: > ...If you think the > vast majority of your users have monitors set at 1600x1200 and love > resizing their windows to get the text right, then you'll design your > site with them in mind. Thanks for digging that strawman up. The problem is not that sites are designing to one size and it's the wrong one. The problem is that they developed bad design habits during a period of substantial homogeneity in user displays, and that homogeneity is breaking apart. A couple of years ago, you could hard code your site for 800-px wide screens and slightly narrower windows (how many designers just started every page with ?). It looked just right for your 800/full screen users, you could be satisfied that it was good enough for your 1024 users, and the remaining few percent could just deal with how it looked. Just like with IE-only pages. The current situation is not that the overall size of displays has grown, but that the difference has grown between the largest and smallest sizes your users are likely to have. "Big" is no longer 30% larger than "small" - it's now 100% larger or more. No single size is going to fit as many people today as 800 did a few years ago. So you can either hard code to a size that annoys a growing number of your users, or stop coding to any particular size. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From leo at leoklein.com Fri Oct 21 15:15:57 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Fri Oct 21 15:16:01 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43592BBA.7070102@ohiolink.edu> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> <43592BBA.7070102@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <43593E6D.8060604@leoklein.com> Thomas Dowling wrote: > Leo Robert Klein wrote: > >>...If you think the >>vast majority of your users have monitors set at 1600x1200 and love >>resizing their windows to get the text right, then you'll design your >>site with them in mind. > > > Thanks for digging that strawman up. The problem is not that sites are > designing to one size and it's the wrong one. The problem is that they > developed bad design habits during a period of substantial homogeneity > in user displays, and that homogeneity is breaking apart. > > A couple of years ago, you could hard code your site for 800-px wide > screens and slightly narrower windows (how many designers just started > every page with
?). It looked just right for your > 800/full screen users, you could be satisfied that it was good enough > for your 1024 users, and the remaining few percent could just deal with > how it looked. Just like with IE-only pages. > > The current situation is not that the overall size of displays has > grown, but that the difference has grown between the largest and > smallest sizes your users are likely to have. "Big" is no longer 30% > larger than "small" - it's now 100% larger or more. No single size is > going to fit as many people today as 800 did a few years ago. So you > can either hard code to a size that annoys a growing number of your > users, or stop coding to any particular size. > If some pretty major sites are designing -- evidently -- to a standard screen, I'd hardly call it "digging up a strawman". It's important after all to bring our deliberations back down to earth every once and a while. Furthermore, I'm delighted to find out that we actually had an earlier simpler era where we could assume a "homogeniety" of displays. As I recall, the argument against fixed-width displays back then was that they weren't compatible with WebTV and WAP and WML (talk about strawmen). In any case, it's really hard for me to imagine -- in fact, it's beyond belief -- that sites as varied as Yahoo, Salon and Sun Microsystems are in the business of developing sites that annoy a "growing number" of their users. Gone are the days when you could launch a site based on the ideology of one or two developers. So maybe they're on to something. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From eric at openly.com Fri Oct 21 16:14:36 2005 From: eric at openly.com (Eric Hellman) Date: Fri Oct 21 16:14:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <43593E6D.8060604@leoklein.com> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> <43592BBA.7070102@ohiolink.edu> <43593E6D.8060604@leoklein.com> Message-ID: I think that before you start citing salon, yahoo and sun as exemplary sites (good or bad), you should first of all characterize them accurately. Salon is NOT a fixed width site- it widens if you make your window wider. true, the 4 columns require a rather large minimum width, but... www.Yahoo.com scales its width based on your font size- pretty cool- it appears to be a fixed number of characters wide. It's much more advanced than your typical site that codes for a fixed screen width. my.yahoo.com is a fully flowing, non-fixed width site. www.sun.com is a good example of a fixed width site, but go look at java.sun.com or sunsolve.sun.com, which are customer focused. It seems the sales and marketing people at sun believe in fixed width and the support and software people at sun believe in flowing layouts. Pick the organization to emulate that you think is most similar to your organization. At 2:15 PM -0500 10/21/05, Leo Robert Klein wrote: >Thomas Dowling wrote: >>Leo Robert Klein wrote: >> >>>...If you think the >>>vast majority of your users have monitors set at 1600x1200 and love >>>resizing their windows to get the text right, then you'll design your >>>site with them in mind. >> >> >>Thanks for digging that strawman up. The problem is not that sites are >>designing to one size and it's the wrong one. The problem is that they >>developed bad design habits during a period of substantial homogeneity >>in user displays, and that homogeneity is breaking apart. >> >>A couple of years ago, you could hard code your site for 800-px wide >>screens and slightly narrower windows (how many designers just started >>every page with
?). It looked just right for your >>800/full screen users, you could be satisfied that it was good enough >>for your 1024 users, and the remaining few percent could just deal with >>how it looked. Just like with IE-only pages. >> >>The current situation is not that the overall size of displays has >>grown, but that the difference has grown between the largest and >>smallest sizes your users are likely to have. "Big" is no longer 30% >>larger than "small" - it's now 100% larger or more. No single size is >>going to fit as many people today as 800 did a few years ago. So you >>can either hard code to a size that annoys a growing number of your >>users, or stop coding to any particular size. >> > >If some pretty major sites are designing -- evidently -- to a >standard screen, I'd hardly call it "digging up a strawman". It's >important after all to bring our deliberations back down to earth >every once and a while. > >Furthermore, I'm delighted to find out that we actually had an >earlier simpler era where we could assume a "homogeniety" of >displays. As I recall, the argument against fixed-width displays >back then was that they weren't compatible with WebTV and WAP and >WML (talk about strawmen). > >In any case, it's really hard for me to imagine -- in fact, it's >beyond belief -- that sites as varied as Yahoo, Salon and Sun >Microsystems are in the business of developing sites that annoy a >"growing number" of their users. Gone are the days when you could >launch a site based on the ideology of one or two developers. So >maybe they're on to something. > >LEO -- Eric Hellman, President Openly Informatics, Inc. eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., 2nd Floor tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything From leo at leoklein.com Fri Oct 21 16:33:24 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Fri Oct 21 16:33:27 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> <43591FEC.9050202@leoklein.com> <43592BBA.7070102@ohiolink.edu> <43593E6D.8060604@leoklein.com> Message-ID: <43595094.90906@leoklein.com> "Fixed" for me is a set length whether in pixels or em's or whatever. There is some fluidity in the layouts but even with Salon they stop after a certain point. They don't go on forever. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com Eric Hellman wrote: > I think that before you start citing salon, yahoo and sun as exemplary > sites (good or bad), you should first of all characterize them accurately. > > Salon is NOT a fixed width site- it widens if you make your window > wider. true, the 4 columns require a rather large minimum width, but... > > www.Yahoo.com scales its width based on your font size- pretty cool- it > appears to be a fixed number of characters wide. It's much more advanced > than your typical site that codes for a fixed screen width. my.yahoo.com > is a fully flowing, non-fixed width site. > > www.sun.com is a good example of a fixed width site, but go look at > java.sun.com or sunsolve.sun.com, which are customer focused. It seems > the sales and marketing people at sun believe in fixed width and the > support and software people at sun believe in flowing layouts. Pick the > organization to emulate that you think is most similar to your > organization. > > From CHHammer at olivet.edu Fri Oct 21 17:03:56 2005 From: CHHammer at olivet.edu (Craighton Hippenhammer) Date: Fri Oct 21 17:04:14 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Instruction Web page links Message-ID: I'm wondering if members of this list have strong opinions about how library instruction pages handle links to database resources -- whether they duplicate these individual URL links in page after instruction page (or throughout your site for that matter), or whether the links point to one page, perhaps with local-page anchors, that lists them all. I'm also wondering if many of you keep your commercial products' URLs in databases and link to them by variable. Craighton Hippenhammer Library Information Technology Olivet Nazarene University Bourbonnais, IL 60914 chhammer@olivet.edu From wtd at pobox.com Sat Oct 22 00:10:51 2005 From: wtd at pobox.com (William Denton) Date: Sat Oct 22 00:10:55 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] folksonomics and tagging? In-Reply-To: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> References: <4358BEB0.14407.4E837C@localhost> Message-ID: On 21 October 2005, Catherine Lemmer wrote: > Anyway, he mentioned folksonomies and tagging. Can someone offer a > brief explanation of these? Further to what the others said, let me point out Clay Shirky's great talk about this called "Ontology is Overrated:" http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail470.html He turned that talk and another into a paper: http://www.shirky.com/writings/ontology_overrated.html If you can spare the time to listen to the talk (it's an MP3), I recommend it. It's entertaining and thought-provoking. Bill -- William Denton : Toronto, Canada : www.miskatonic.org : www.frbr.org From umassdlcc at umassd.edu Sat Oct 22 23:54:38 2005 From: umassdlcc at umassd.edu (Charlie McNeil) Date: Sun Oct 23 01:05:53 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <20051023035507.AE38B328490@mail.umassd.edu> Ouch! From the latest Educause Review. E-Content Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Paul B. Gandel Educause Review, Nov/Dec Vol. 40 No. 6 http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/erm05610.pdf - Charlie cmcneil@umassd.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Sun Oct 23 13:53:14 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Sun Oct 23 13:53:20 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: <20051023035507.AE38B328490@mail.umassd.edu> Message-ID: <20051023175316.576CB570393@frontend2.messagingengine.com> http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/erm05610.pdf I had a number of "clicks" during this essay. The part that went bing-bing-bing: "It is no longer unusual to hear about people who prefer to buy a book online and have it delivered right to their door, instead of walking across campus to check out the same book from the campus library. Although these 'Amazoners' may still be the exception rather than the rule, in today's world of expedited electronic tracking and worldwide delivery, it seems only natural that we should begin to expect direct delivery of print material from anywhere, to anywhere. Yet libraries have been slow to react to these changes. Cumbersome interlibrary loan procedures are still the norm." At Library A, I can pay $7.50 per every interlibrary loan and for this privilege hope I might see the item in two weeks. As a consumer, rather than do this, I exercise two other options: I use Library B in the next town, as it offers remote access to a two-state consortium with rapid delivery to a nearby library, or I use Amazon, where I can buy quality used copies of what I need usually for under $5 (and presumably sell them again if I don't scribble in them). If I lived in an area without a Library B option, Amazon would be my logical choice. That's just one small example of how this essay hurts... so good. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From jlward1 at u.washington.edu Sun Oct 23 20:58:28 2005 From: jlward1 at u.washington.edu (Jennifer Ward) Date: Sun Oct 23 20:58:31 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Web4Lib Reference Center In-Reply-To: <34962.148.144.175.2.1129828296.squirrel@www.lishost.com> References: <34962.148.144.175.2.1129828296.squirrel@www.lishost.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Blake Carver wrote: :I think a wiki is a good idea for a reference ceter. : :In this case, wouldit make more sense to go with the LISWiki, it seems :having less specialization sometimes is a good thing. I don't know that the libsuccess wiki is all that specialized. It does seem to have a bit more critical mass than liswiki, which isn't a bad thing. --Jennifer From wim.vogel at kb.nl Mon Oct 24 02:48:32 2005 From: wim.vogel at kb.nl (WimV) Date: Mon Oct 24 02:48:50 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <435C83C0.5070301@kb.nl> Mike Taylor wrote: Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:10:23 -0500 >> From: Leo Robert Klein >> >> Life must be hell for those for whom fixed width is an "immense >> annoynance" since it seems there are a helluva lot of sites that >> make use of it: AOL, C-Net, Salon, NYTimes.com, Libary of >> Congress... >Yes Use Firefox. With Ctrl+ and Ctrl- you can zoom in and out of most fixed fontsizes. WimV From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Mon Oct 24 07:26:19 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Mon Oct 24 07:27:11 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version In-Reply-To: <435C83C0.5070301@kb.nl> (message from WimV on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:48:32 +0200) References: <906a6f90a04a.90a04a906a6f@usfca.edu> <4356C71A.7050503@uiuc.edu> <28eeb86b0510201321j1bd82d06vf8a019137a6ea923@mail.gmail.com> <43585057.5030204@uiuc.edu> <4358DFB1.8020104@ohiolink.edu> <435912EF.3050200@leoklein.com> <20051021163009.7B948441C0@localhost.localdomain> <435C83C0.5070301@kb.nl> Message-ID: <20051024112619.A49C343F04@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:48:32 +0200 > From: WimV > >>> Life must be hell for those for whom fixed width is an "immense >>> annoynance" since it seems there are a helluva lot of sites that >>> make use of it: AOL, C-Net, Salon, NYTimes.com, Libary of >>> Congress... >> >> Yes > > Use Firefox. > With Ctrl+ and Ctrl- you can zoom in and out of most fixed fontsizes. I do use FireFox. The problem is not fixed font-size (though heaven knows that's evil enough) but fixed page-width. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "Machines take me by surprise with great frequency" -- Alan Turing. From PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU Mon Oct 24 08:20:33 2005 From: PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU (Pons, Lisa (ponslm)) Date: Mon Oct 24 08:20:37 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA194255B7A63@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might illustrate this point... As part of a non-work related research project with a deadline, I found a link to an article I needed- from 1910. It wasnt available from my library, but through the consortium we belong to. Wonderful, I thought. I got the citation, filled out the appropriate web forms, and waited. Turns out I didnt have to wait long- the next day, I received an email cancelling my request. Apparently, one of our libraries had microfilm that contained the article, so I was left with the choice of going to that library and looking through microfilm for what I wanted, or...nothing. I was annoyed, and frankly didnt have at least 2 hours,I figured, to try and find the article in some archived microfilm. So, less you doubt the articles contention that people will pay for something they might be able to get for free with a little work, I would have paid for the article, but I wasnt given the choice. I wondered if this could be a revenue stream for the libraries, offering this service. Is that possible, or is labor the issue? Lisa Pons University Libraries Webmaster ________________________________ From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of K.G. Schneider Sent: Sun 10/23/2005 1:53 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/erm05610.pdf I had a number of "clicks" during this essay. The part that went bing-bing-bing: "It is no longer unusual to hear about people who prefer to buy a book online and have it delivered right to their door, instead of walking across campus to check out the same book from the campus library. Although these 'Amazoners' may still be the exception rather than the rule, in today's world of expedited electronic tracking and worldwide delivery, it seems only natural that we should begin to expect direct delivery of print material from anywhere, to anywhere. Yet libraries have been slow to react to these changes. Cumbersome interlibrary loan procedures are still the norm." At Library A, I can pay $7.50 per every interlibrary loan and for this privilege hope I might see the item in two weeks. As a consumer, rather than do this, I exercise two other options: I use Library B in the next town, as it offers remote access to a two-state consortium with rapid delivery to a nearby library, or I use Amazon, where I can buy quality used copies of what I need usually for under $5 (and presumably sell them again if I don't scribble in them). If I lived in an area without a Library B option, Amazon would be my logical choice. That's just one small example of how this essay hurts... so good. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Oct 24 09:05:52 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:04:24 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511EE9@SYSTEM14> So I am not to question authority? Your website may suck but mine doesn't. My site passes all of the accessibility guidelines. Bill Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Singer [mailto:ross.singer@library.gatech.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:31 AM > To: Drew, Bill > Cc: kgs@bluehighways.com; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version > > On Oct 20, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Drew, Bill wrote: > > > Actually I always wondered who named him the accessibility and > > usability > > god. There are many better sources in LibraryLand with much more > > practical experience and common sense. > > This statement is testimony to why all library web sites suck. > > But, hey, you're the expert, right? > > -Ross. > > From bhojaraju.g at icicionesource.com Mon Oct 24 09:13:51 2005 From: bhojaraju.g at icicionesource.com (Bhojaraju G.) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:27:06 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Ontologies for ETDs Message-ID: <05E6A777E2660F4983AAA15BE8F5323208017E@ioneblrex.cadomain.local> Dear All, I am doing a study on "Ontologies for ETDs" (Electronic Theses & Dissertations). So i wish to know about the following information urgently. * Major ETDs in the world (approx numbers with few examples) * How Ontologies have been applied for those ETD database ? * Use of ontologies in database like ...Proquest & OCLC * Commercial databases (approx numbers with few examples) Thanking you in anticipation. Thanks & Regards Bhojaraju G, Librarian - Knowledge Management, (Sharepoint Administrator) Bangalore-560004, INDIA. ************************************************************ Pl do visit & put your comments on Guest Book "KM Cyberary" @ http://www.bhojarajug.freeservers.com/cyberary.html KM-Forum Founder: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KM-Forum/ ___________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, please delete it immediately and notify the sender. The recipient acknowledges that ICICI OneSource or its subsidiaries and associated companies, as the case may be, are unable to exercise control or ensure or guarantee the integrity of/over the contents of the information contained in e-mail transmissions and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with due authority of ICICI OneSource or its subsidiaries and associated companies, as applicable. ICICI OneSource and its subsidiaries do not accept liability for damage caused by this email and may monitor email traffic. Before opening any attachments please check them for viruses and defects. ___________________________________________________________________ From bhojaraju.g at gmail.com Mon Oct 24 09:37:33 2005 From: bhojaraju.g at gmail.com (Bhojaraju G) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:37:37 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Ontologies for ETDs In-Reply-To: <17e809440510232354r47ce31b6q20cf67cbeb571b36@mail.gmail.com> References: <17e809440510232109u4cfd27d2l33b826adcadaf5e@mail.gmail.com> <17e809440510232354r47ce31b6q20cf67cbeb571b36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17e809440510240637g1932993dk18cfcb9dc5c7290c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am doing a study on "Ontologies for ETDs" (Electronic Theses & Dissertations). So i wish to know about the following information urgently. - Major ETDs in the world (approx numbers with few examples) - How Ontologies have been applied for those ETD database ? - Use of ontologies in database like ...Proquest & OCLC - Commercial databases (approx numbers with few examples) Thanking you in anticipation. Thanks & Regards Bhojaraju G, Librarian ? Knowledge Management, (Sharepoint Administrator) Bangalore-560004, INDIA. ************************************************************ Pl do visit & put your comments on Guest Book "KM Cyberary" @ http://www.bhojarajug.freeservers.com/cyberary.html KM-Forum Founder: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KM-Forum/ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Oct 24 09:41:43 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:40:15 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F29@SYSTEM14> Nothing new in the article. Also, never heard of the author before. Bill drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Charlie McNeil > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 11:55 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong > Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? > > Ouch! From the latest Educause Review. > > > > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Oct 24 09:56:08 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:54:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> If your request had come to our library, we would have filled it by doing the photocopying of the microfilm . We do this all of the time as part of our obligation of being a member of OCLC and a library. It is too bad that there are many libraries and librarians out there that do not understand the idea of service. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Pons, > Lisa (ponslm) > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:21 AM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong > Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? > > I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might > illustrate this point... > From vctinney at dcn.org Mon Oct 24 09:59:59 2005 From: vctinney at dcn.org (V. Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr.) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:00:42 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Ontologies for ETDs In-Reply-To: <05E6A777E2660F4983AAA15BE8F5323208017E@ioneblrex.cadomain.local> References: <05E6A777E2660F4983AAA15BE8F5323208017E@ioneblrex.cadomain.local> Message-ID: <435CE8DF.3000506@dcn.org> Bhojaraju G. wrote: >Dear All, > >I am doing a study on "Ontologies for ETDs" (Electronic >Theses & Dissertations). So I wish to know about the >following information urgently. > >* Major ETDs in the world (approx numbers with few > > TRY: Web Pages for Scholarly Societies http://www.academic-genealogy.com/archives.htm#Scholarly From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Oct 24 10:15:47 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:14:21 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F64@SYSTEM14> I did not mean to send this message to the entire list. I apologize for that. I did not see the CC: in the message. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Oct 24 10:37:51 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:37:41 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: Bill, The nuance here is that her request was cancelled by her own library, because it was available locally. Somehow I doubt you photocopy articles out of microfilm for your own patrons, despite the fact that you do it for the patrons of other libraries via interlibrary loan. Roy On Oct 24, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Drew, Bill wrote: > If your request had come to our library, we would have filled it by > doing the photocopying of the microfilm . We do this all of the > time as > part of our obligation of being a member of OCLC and a library. It is > too bad that there are many libraries and librarians out there that do > not understand the idea of service. > > Bill Drew > drewwe@morrisville.edu > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Pons, >> Lisa (ponslm) >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:21 AM >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org >> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong >> Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? >> >> I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might >> illustrate this point... >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon Oct 24 10:43:22 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:41:54 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F97@SYSTEM14> I missed that nuance. It is an important point to consider though. Thanks. From mike at miketaylor.org.uk Mon Oct 24 10:48:21 2005 From: mike at miketaylor.org.uk (Mike Taylor) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:49:17 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: (message from Roy Tennant on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:37:51 -0700) References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <20051024144821.6F2D643F04@localhost.localdomain> > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:37:51 -0700 > From: Roy Tennant > > The nuance here is that her request was cancelled by her own > library, because it was available locally. Somehow I doubt you > photocopy articles out of microfilm for your own patrons, despite > the fact that you do it for the patrons of other libraries via > interlibrary loan. ... which leads to the stupid situation that a patron is likely to get better service from a less well-stocked library. Or by going via an intermediate library to request the material from the local library. _/|_ ___________________________________________________________________ /o ) \/ Mike Taylor http://www.miketaylor.org.uk )_v__/\ "What would the Coliseum have looked like if Liverpool city council been in charge?" -- Paul Clough. From PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU Mon Oct 24 10:59:44 2005 From: PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU (Pons, Lisa (ponslm)) Date: Mon Oct 24 10:59:48 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA19425017A5477@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> Roy is correct. However, just to throw it out, and see what people would think:would it be a service I would pay for? Probably! Lisa Pons-Haitz Webmaster University Libraries University of Cincinnati lisa.pons@uc.edu (513)556-1431 > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Roy Tennant > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:38 AM > To: Web4Lib > Subject: Re: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong > Platform,Waiting > for the Wrong Train? > > > Bill, > The nuance here is that her request was cancelled by her own > library, > because it was available locally. Somehow I doubt you photocopy > articles out of microfilm for your own patrons, despite the > fact that > you do it for the patrons of other libraries via interlibrary loan. > Roy > > On Oct 24, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Drew, Bill wrote: > > > If your request had come to our library, we would have filled it by > > doing the photocopying of the microfilm . We do this all of the > > time as > > part of our obligation of being a member of OCLC and a > library. It is > > too bad that there are many libraries and librarians out > there that do > > not understand the idea of service. > > > > Bill Drew > > drewwe@morrisville.edu > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > >> [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Pons, > >> Lisa (ponslm) > >> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:21 AM > >> To: web4lib@webjunction.org > >> Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong > >> Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? > >> > >> I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might > >> illustrate this point... > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Web4lib mailing list > > Web4lib@webjunction.org > > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From jaf30 at cornell.edu Mon Oct 24 11:00:45 2005 From: jaf30 at cornell.edu (John Fereira) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:00:49 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051024105404.029baf98@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> At 10:37 AM 10/24/2005, Roy Tennant wrote: >Bill, >The nuance here is that her request was cancelled by her own library, >because it was available locally. Somehow I doubt you photocopy >articles out of microfilm for your own patrons, despite the fact that >you do it for the patrons of other libraries via interlibrary loan. We have that nuance somewhat here at Cornell as well. We've got a system called MyDocumentDelivery which essentially is a system that will scan journal articles, book chapters, and other materials in the print collection and make them available to a patron on the web as a PDF file. I don't know a lot of the details about the system but presumably that would include print material that was obtained via Inter-library loan. The types of material available includes paper format journal articles, book chapters, conference proceedings, parts of musical works, manuscripts, newspaper articles, and pamphlets. Material that is not available through the system includes Microform items, rare/fragile items, items already available electronically, items restricted by copyright policy, and entire books. MyDocumentDelivery is a fee based service. >Roy > >On Oct 24, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Drew, Bill wrote: > >>If your request had come to our library, we would have filled it by >>doing the photocopying of the microfilm . We do this all of the >>time as >>part of our obligation of being a member of OCLC and a library. It is >>too bad that there are many libraries and librarians out there that do >>not understand the idea of service. >> >>Bill Drew >>drewwe@morrisville.edu >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Pons, >>>Lisa (ponslm) >>>Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:21 AM >>>To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong >>>Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? >>> >>>I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might >>>illustrate this point... >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Web4lib mailing list >Web4lib@webjunction.org >http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From es254 at cornell.edu Mon Oct 24 11:02:19 2005 From: es254 at cornell.edu (Zoe Stewart-Marshall) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:02:47 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF3E71AAC9FBB4C85A95204FD1D9C51511F3C@SYSTEM14> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051024105433.03e652a0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> I recently heard a presentation from Scott Anderson at Millersville University (PA). They are providing a service where they provide (and strongly encourage) delivery of electronic copies of locally held microforms to their patrons. They've been studying the cost issues and decided that it was cheaper to (not to mention better service) provide this service than to staff a service point and constantly be servicing microform reading/printing machines. zoe At 10:37 AM 10/24/05, you wrote: >Bill, >The nuance here is that her request was cancelled by her own library, >because it was available locally. Somehow I doubt you photocopy >articles out of microfilm for your own patrons, despite the fact that >you do it for the patrons of other libraries via interlibrary loan. >Roy > >On Oct 24, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Drew, Bill wrote: > >>If your request had come to our library, we would have filled it by >>doing the photocopying of the microfilm . We do this all of the >>time as >>part of our obligation of being a member of OCLC and a library. It is >>too bad that there are many libraries and librarians out there that do >>not understand the idea of service. >> >>Bill Drew >>drewwe@morrisville.edu >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org >>>[mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Pons, >>>Lisa (ponslm) >>>Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:21 AM >>>To: web4lib@webjunction.org >>>Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong >>>Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? >>> >>>I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might >>>illustrate this point... >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Web4lib mailing list >>Web4lib@webjunction.org >>http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > >*************************************************************** >Zoe Stewart-Marshall >Database Enrichment Librarian >Cornell University Libraries >107E Olin Library Ithaca, NY 14853 >Phone (607) 255-5757 Fax (607) 255-6110 From PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU Mon Oct 24 11:10:30 2005 From: PONSLM at UCMAIL.UC.EDU (Pons, Lisa (ponslm)) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:10:34 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? Message-ID: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA19425017A547A@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> "... which leads to the stupid situation that a patron is likely to get > better service from a less well-stocked library. Or by going via an > intermediate library to request the material from the local library." Exactly! From my point of view, I would have been better off if they didnt have it! After all, all I "really" care about is how easy it is to get the information and materials i need. I dont care where it came from. Why not send an email saying "this item available at Library X, or for 5.95 we will scan and email it to you". To me, that would be service! ">I recently heard a presentation from Scott Anderson at Millersville >University (PA). They are providing a service where they provide (and >strongly encourage) delivery of electronic copies of locally held >microforms to their patrons. They've been studying the cost issues and >decided that it was cheaper to (not to mention better service) provide this >service than to staff a service point and constantly be servicing microform reading/printing machines." That makes good business sense to me and would be a way to distinguish yourself in terms of service to the busy community. Also, this would make the fact that my library has such vast holdings much more relevant and important to me. Lisa Pons-Haitz Webmaster University Libraries University of Cincinnati lisa.pons@uc.edu (513)556-1431 From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Oct 24 11:14:04 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:13:53 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA194255B7A63@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> References: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA194255B7A63@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: Another point about Lisa's story is that we should all use our own libraries as our users would (not as librarians who are often afforded special dispensation). Often when I do this I am not pleased about one thing or another, and it's those things upon which we need to focus our attention. Roy On Oct 24, 2005, at 5:20 AM, Pons, Lisa (ponslm) wrote: > I will de-lurk to throw in a recent experience that might > illustrate this point... > > As part of a non-work related research project with a deadline, I > found a link to an article I needed- from 1910. It wasnt available > from my library, but through the consortium we belong to. > Wonderful, I thought. > > I got the citation, filled out the appropriate web forms, and > waited. Turns out I didnt have to wait long- the next day, I > received an email cancelling my request. > > Apparently, one of our libraries had microfilm that contained the > article, so I was left with the choice of going to that library and > looking through microfilm for what I wanted, or...nothing. I was > annoyed, and frankly didnt have at least 2 hours,I figured, to try > and find the article in some archived microfilm. > > So, less you doubt the articles contention that people will pay for > something they might be able to get for free with a little work, I > would have paid for the article, but I wasnt given the choice. > > I wondered if this could be a revenue stream for the libraries, > offering this service. Is that possible, or is labor the issue? > > Lisa Pons > University Libraries Webmaster > > ________________________________ > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org on behalf of K.G. Schneider > Sent: Sun 10/23/2005 1:53 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong > Platform,Waiting for the Wrong Train? > > > > http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/erm05610.pdf > > I had a number of "clicks" during this essay. The part that went > bing-bing-bing: > > "It is no longer unusual to hear about people who prefer to buy a > book online and have it delivered right to their door, instead of > walking > across campus to check out the same book from the campus library. > Although > these 'Amazoners' may still be the exception rather than the rule, in > today's world of expedited electronic tracking and worldwide > delivery, it > seems only natural that we should begin to expect direct delivery > of print > material from anywhere, to anywhere. Yet libraries have been slow > to react > to these changes. Cumbersome interlibrary loan procedures are still > the > norm." > > At Library A, I can pay $7.50 per every interlibrary loan and for this > privilege hope I might see the item in two weeks. As a consumer, > rather than > do this, I exercise two other options: I use Library B in the next > town, as > it offers remote access to a two-state consortium with rapid > delivery to a > nearby library, or I use Amazon, where I can buy quality used > copies of what > I need usually for under $5 (and presumably sell them again if I don't > scribble in them). If I lived in an area without a Library B > option, Amazon > would be my logical choice. > > That's just one small example of how this essay hurts... so good. > > Karen G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > > From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Mon Oct 24 11:23:19 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:17:55 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA19425017A547A@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> References: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA19425017A547A@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: <435CFC67.30109@library.gatech.edu> Pons, Lisa (ponslm) wrote: > Exactly! From my point of view, I would have been better off if they > didnt have it! After all, all I "really" care about is how easy it is > to get the information and materials i need. I dont care where it came > from. Why not send an email saying "this item available at Library X, > or for 5.95 we will scan and email it to you". To me, that would be > service! But you would miss the "learning moment" of "how to use microforms". Somewhere, a librarian sheds a tear. -Ross. From library.lisle at gmail.com Mon Oct 24 11:46:09 2005 From: library.lisle at gmail.com (Elizabeth mckenty) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:46:13 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: References: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA194255B7A63@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> Message-ID: At my former place of work (a very large public library), that the same email ILL request would have resulted in a similar cancellation. However, if the email had come in via our "Ask A Librarian" service, Lisa would have received a response from the Microfilm Center that she could have the article on microfilm scanned and sent to her as an attachment for $0.50 per page, with a $1.00 minimum, and be invoiced. It would not be instantaneous service, but in a matter of days. She would have gotten that same information if she telephoned or had written a letter (!), but if she walked in, she would have to do the copying (no scanning) herself. Go figure. I do know some of the reasons this craziness developed, but it is still unacceptable. >From past experience in different libraries, I am guessing that this kind of structure of different services depending on entrance point is rife. It makes no sense, provides poor customer service, and should be counter to policy. Libraries must start looking hard at document delivery, and make it logical and sensible, or our patrons will flock to other resources, and who can blame them? Lisle McKenty -- Lisle (rhymes with weasel) "...me figuraba el Para?so bajo la especie de una biblioteca" --Jorge Borges From kgs at bluehighways.com Mon Oct 24 12:44:08 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Mon Oct 24 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051024164412.798195703A7@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > Another point about Lisa's story is that we should all use our own > libraries as our users would (not as librarians who are often > afforded special dispensation). Often when I do this I am not pleased > about one thing or another, and it's those things upon which we need > to focus our attention. > Roy Most of us can't really use our OWN libraries as our users would, though we can make an effort. (I'm also not opposed to membership having some privileges.) But we can and should use OTHER libraries fully in this role, without having to don costumes a la restaurant reviewer Ruth Reichl to get the full customer service treatment (or not, as the case may be). Another point has to do with costs and how they are allocated. Nothing is free. So the library denying Lisa a service (let us email you that article) is making a cost decision. But the library is also taking Lisa, the taxpayer/tuition-payer, out of that decision loop. (Not only that, it's a typically loopy and inconsistent loop, like the justifications I've heard for putting walk-in customers ahead of everyone else.) Amazon, on the other hand, hands a lot of cost decisions to the user. It's never free (face it, they're rank capitalists), but the options range from new hardcover to a used copy, from no extra charge for delivery if you wait for it to luxury overnight service if you pay extra for it (with plenty of gradients in between). The same thing that makes me hesitate about national health foments my criticism of many library services. I remember from years ago Charles McClure talking about how we focus on serving the underserved--a worthy goal--but do not also focus on serving the well-off. He talked about the potential for libraries to be information sources of FIRST resort (as well as LAST resort). This is not only ensuring service to all, but is a strategic self-preservation effort. Unfortunately, far too many libraries operate from a monopolistic paradigm where the assumption going in is they have no competition, when, in fact, our competition breathes down our neck as we speak. There are larger reasons to have libraries, reasons worth fighting for, but we aren't going to defend these reasons by failing to revisit business as usual. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From phenriksen at neflin.org Mon Oct 24 13:12:03 2005 From: phenriksen at neflin.org (Phalbe Henriksen) Date: Mon Oct 24 13:13:40 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Nielsen's Top 10 - 2005 version - spec. fonts In-Reply-To: <200510191827.j9JIRjeq001222@smtp.washington.edu> References: <43568852.3090005@uiuc.edu> <200510191827.j9JIRjeq001222@smtp.washington.edu> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20051024130920.02ac5d20@mail.neflin.org> As long as people were naming their favorite fonts in the now-dead thread, I'd like to mention mine -- CastleT. We use it for signs, but I doubt if it could be used on a web page, because it's not a common font. We did a little experimenting and found that CastleT could be read from further away than any other heavy font we have. I wish it were more popular. It should be easy to read on the web. Phalbe Henriksen Director Bradford County Public Library Starke, FL From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Oct 24 17:05:49 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Mon Oct 24 17:05:53 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Virtual reference session counts Message-ID: I'm wondering if people are seeing an increase or decrease in virtual reference traffic compared to, say, a couple of years ago? Thanks! Bernie Sloan Senior Information Systems Consultant Consortium of Academic & Research Libraries in Illinois 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820-5752 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From aalakos at library.ucla.edu Mon Oct 24 17:52:24 2005 From: aalakos at library.ucla.edu (Amos Lakos) Date: Mon Oct 24 17:52:28 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] Libraries: Standing at the Wrong Platform, Waiting for the Wrong Train? In-Reply-To: <435CFC67.30109@library.gatech.edu> References: <0308C7DB96F7F242BB95CFF4FEA19425017A547A@ucmail8.ad.uc.edu> <435CFC67.30109@library.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <454062186.1130165544@LIBRARY-08.DDNSUserTracking> Ross - I like your irony. Beyond the issues dealing with ILL, this article raises a number of important concerns - chief among them - library survivability. For many reasons, the profession does not seem to be ready to grapple with this issue. Beyond the obvious known companies (Amazon & Google) we need to learn from others - such as Fedex, UPS, and today I was really impressed by Zappos.com - who sell shoes on the web. ( I know the difference.....) I am in the process of exchanging a pair of shoes I just bought. It took them less than 24 hours from the time I initiated the return/exchange to send me the following e-mail message - beside the content - see the job description - "Hi Amos, Thank you for choosing Zappos.com for your shopping needs! Good news, your exchange order 46311902 has been placed and on its' way to you. You should receive your new order in 4-5 business days. If you haven't received your new order in 4-5 business days, please feel free to contact us. We are constantly striving to improve our service. If there is anything more we can do for you or if we could improve your experience, please do not hesitate to let us know. We are always here for you - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. We like to think of ourselves as a service company that just happens to sell shoes. 1-800-ZAPPOS-1 (1-800-927-7671) OR 702-943-7677. Thank you and have a great day, Michelle Customer Loyalty Representative Zappos.com" Amos --On Monday, October 24, 2005 11:23 AM -0400 Ross Singer wrote: > Pons, Lisa (ponslm) wrote: > >> Exactly! From my point of view, I would have been better off if they >> didnt have it! After all, all I "really" care about is how easy it is >> to get the information and materials i need. I dont care where it came >> from. Why not send an email saying "this item available at Library X, >> or for 5.95 we will scan and email it to you". To me, that would be >> service! > > But you would miss the "learning moment" of "how to use microforms". > > Somewhere, a librarian sheds a tear. > > -Ross. > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ Amos Lakos Librarian, Rosenfeld Management Library UCLA - Anderson School of Management 110 Westwood Plaza, Box 951460 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1460 Phone: (310) 794-4381 Fax: (310) 825-4835 E-mail: aalakos@library.ucla.edu Web: http://personal.anderson.ucla.edu/amos.lakos/index.html From TPlumb at uwyo.edu Mon Oct 24 18:31:21 2005 From: TPlumb at uwyo.edu (Tawnya Plumb) Date: Mon Oct 24 18:31:25 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Message-ID: Hello all, My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. Thanks, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper College of Law College of Law, University of Wyoming From bardsley at u.washington.edu Mon Oct 24 18:39:53 2005 From: bardsley at u.washington.edu (Mark Bardsley) Date: Mon Oct 24 18:39:56 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510242239.j9OMdrES013933@smtp.washington.edu> Tawnya, Kartoo is quite graphical (do a search to get the graphics): http://www.kartoo.com/ I wouldn't call Clusty graphical but some might (do a search to get the clusters): http://clusty.com/ - Mark -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tawnya Plumb Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Hello all, My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. Thanks, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper College of Law College of Law, University of Wyoming _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From jon at ylpl.lib.ca.us Mon Oct 24 18:38:46 2005 From: jon at ylpl.lib.ca.us (Jon Legree) Date: Mon Oct 24 18:44:29 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's a pretty neat one called Kartoo that uses Flash. http://www.kartoo.com/en_index.htm Jon Legree Library Technology Specialist Yorba Linda Public Library Yorba Linda, CA 92886 714.777.2873.119 mailto:jon@ylpl.lib.ca.us http://www.ylpl.lib.ca.us -----Original Message----- From: Tawnya Plumb [mailto:TPlumb@uwyo.edu] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Hello all, My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. Thanks, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper College of Law College of Law, University of Wyoming _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From billypearl at excite.com Mon Oct 24 19:12:01 2005 From: billypearl at excite.com (William Enright) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:12:03 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Message-ID: <20051024231201.20FB7197342@xprdmailfe3.nwk.excite.com> Kart00 needs to work on spelling, the third most important aspect of any Web site. William Enright _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From electrum05 at gmail.com Mon Oct 24 19:23:30 2005 From: electrum05 at gmail.com (D. Turcotte) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:23:33 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In addition to Kartoo, you might want to try: Grokker: www.grokker.com Mooter: www.mooter.com Dawna Turcotte Librarian Northern Lights College Fort St John, BC On 10/24/05, Tawnya Plumb wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide > results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by > relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on > the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib > archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got > my lead in the first place. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper College of Law > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Oct 25 09:26:48 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Tue Oct 25 09:27:00 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] The Google Print Controversy: A Bibliography Message-ID: Hadn't seen this on Web4Lib yet... -----Original Message----- From: owner-lita-l@ala.org [mailto:owner-lita-l@ala.org] On Behalf Of Charles W. Bailey, Jr. Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:02 AM To: Library and Information Technology Association List Subject: [LITA-L:2470] The Google Print Controversy: A Bibliography http://www.escholarlypub.com/digitalkoans/2005/10/25/the-google-print-co ntroversy-a-bibliography/ This bibliography presents selected electronic works about Google Print that are freely available on the Internet. It has a special focus on the legal issues associated with this project. Page numbers for print/electronic publications are not included unless they are mentioned in the electronic version. -- Best Regards, Charles Charles W. Bailey, Jr., Assistant Dean for Digital Library Planning and Development, University of Houston Libraries Home: http://www.escholarlypub.com/ DigitalKoans: http://www.escholarlypub.com/digitalkoans/ Open Access Bibliography: http://www.escholarlypub.com/oab/oab.htm Open Access Webliography: http://www.escholarlypub.com/cwb/oaw.htm Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography: http://info.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepb.html Scholarly Electronic Publishing Weblog: http://info.lib.uh.edu/sepb/sepw.htm --- LITA-L mailing list: To Unsubscribe --- To unsubscribe send an email to listproc@ala.org with the following in the body of the message unsubscribe lita-l From jwylder at decatur.lib.il.us Tue Oct 25 09:41:38 2005 From: jwylder at decatur.lib.il.us (jwylder) Date: Tue Oct 25 09:41:36 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002601c5d969$d2c9c840$4100005a@dpl.decatur.lib.il.us> I like http://www.webbrain.com/html/default_win.html John Wylder Head of Extension Division Decatur Public Library 130 N. Franklin St. Decatur, IL 62521 (217) 421-9751 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jon Legree Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:39 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: RE: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results There's a pretty neat one called Kartoo that uses Flash. http://www.kartoo.com/en_index.htm Jon Legree Library Technology Specialist Yorba Linda Public Library Yorba Linda, CA 92886 714.777.2873.119 mailto:jon@ylpl.lib.ca.us http://www.ylpl.lib.ca.us -----Original Message----- From: Tawnya Plumb [mailto:TPlumb@uwyo.edu] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Hello all, My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. Thanks, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper College of Law College of Law, University of Wyoming _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Tue Oct 25 09:53:44 2005 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (Robin Boulton) Date: Tue Oct 25 09:53:11 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results In-Reply-To: <200510242239.j9OMdrES013933@smtp.washington.edu> Message-ID: There's also a product called Grokker ( http://www.grokker.com/ )which might be worth your while to look at. > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Mark Bardsley > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:40 PM > To: 'Tawnya Plumb'; web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results > > > Tawnya, > > Kartoo is quite graphical (do a search to get the graphics): > http://www.kartoo.com/ I wouldn't call Clusty graphical but some might (do a search to get the clusters): http://clusty.com/ - Mark -----Original Message----- From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tawnya Plumb Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM To: web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Hello all, My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. Thanks, Tawnya Plumb Electronic Services Librarian George W. Hopper College of Law College of Law, University of Wyoming _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ _______________________________________________ Web4lib mailing list Web4lib@webjunction.org http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ From matthew.dovey at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 25 09:58:41 2005 From: matthew.dovey at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Matthew J. Dovey) Date: Tue Oct 25 09:58:46 2005 Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results Message-ID: <41AB0A86E101A34FA839E3C199628AC91C599E@samantha.ceridwen.com> Quite a few listed here: http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/info_maps.html Matthew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Robin Boulton > Sent: 25 October 2005 14:54 > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results > > There's also a product called Grokker ( > http://www.grokker.com/ )which might be worth your while to look at. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Mark Bardsley > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:40 PM > > To: 'Tawnya Plumb'; web4lib@webjunction.org > > Subject: RE: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results > > > > > > Tawnya, > > > > Kartoo is quite graphical (do a search to get the graphics): > > > http://www.kartoo.com/ > > I wouldn't call Clusty graphical but some might (do a search > to get the > clusters): > > http://clusty.com/ > > - Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib-bounces@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Tawnya Plumb > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM > To: web4lib@webjunction.org > Subject: [Web4lib] visual display of internet results > > Hello all, > > > > My memory tells me that I've linked to internet browsers that > provide results in a visual graphic format by category rather > than in by relevance in a list. I've spent an hour trying to > find an example on the web and have struck out. I've also > looked through the web4lib archive. Any suggestions? I > suspect it was from this list that I got my lead in the first place. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tawnya Plumb > > Electronic Services Librarian > > George W. Hopper College of Law > > College of Law, University of Wyoming > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > _______________________________________________ > Web4lib mailing list > Web4lib@webjunction.org > http://lists.webjunction.org/web4lib/ > > __________________________