From S.J.Newman at brighton.ac.uk Thu Feb 3 05:37:27 2005 From: S.J.Newman at brighton.ac.uk (S.J.Newman@brighton.ac.uk) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: FW: Press Release: MORI survey uncovers major new trends in web u se in the UK Message-ID: I hope this will be of interest to members of the list. Steve Newman Networked Information Services Manager University of Brighton, UK _____ From: A JISC announce list. [mailto:JISC-ANNOUNCE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Tessa EDMONDS Sent: 03 February 2005 10:21 To: JISC-ANNOUNCE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Press Release: MORI survey uncovers major new trends in web use in the UK Press Release MORI survey uncovers major new trends in web use in the UK Thursday 3 February 2005 - A new MORI survey published today is the first to take a wide-ranging look at the issues of reliability of information found on the Internet, and the extent to which users feel they can trust the information they find there. The reputation of an organisation and the trustworthiness of the content of websites are important factors in people's attitudes, the survey found. Information provided via the websites of more established organisations such as museums, libraries and archives are most likely to gain a great deal or fair amount of trust from people. This is particularly the case in comparison to more commercial websites such as utility companies, travel agencies and Internet-only retail companies. Among the other findings uncovered by the survey, commissioned by the Common Information Environment (CIE) group, were the following: * Most of the population is aware of the Internet to some degree, with just under half of all respondents (49%) saying they know at least a fair amount about it * 92% of Internet users say that reliability of content is an important factor, including 63% saying it is very important * Home is the place from which people most commonly access the Internet, with 80% of current users saying that they go online most often from there * 53% of all respondents go online at least once a week, including 30% who do so every day * 3% of users access the Internet via mobile phones or GPRS as their preferred means of access. * Over half of all current users (54%) of the Web use it as their preferred information source. In addition, some 59% of all those surveyed are confident about Internet use, and three quarters of respondents say that they find it easy to get access to the Internet. In addition, * With the potential of the Internet as a learning tool, the survey also reveals the public's attitudes to lifelong learning. Encouragingly, the overwhelming majority of people surveyed agree that it is important for adults to continue to learn as they get older (94%). Importantly most see a role for the Internet in learning new things (83% class the Internet as an important learning tool). 59% of those who have ever used the Internet search for specific information in connection with a hobby or interest, while 40% have done so in connection with their own education, and 25% in connection with their own children's learning. The survey also points to a growing "digital divide", a gulf between different groups of users based on gender, employment, class and educational attainment. Men, people aged 16-54, who work, come from social classes ABC1, and have a formal educational qualification are more likely to be Internet users, the survey finds, than women, people aged 55+, those not in work, from social classes C2DE, and people who do not have a formal educational qualification. At the same time, findings from the survey suggest that use of the Internet may be prone to lapsing as people move from education and training (where learning providers supply the means of access for those without ready access elsewhere) into work. Once again, the implications for the wider agendas of lifelong learning, e-Government and active citizenship would appear to require concerted political action. Dr Paul Miller, Director of the CIE, welcomed the findings, saying: "The Common Information Environment is all about public sector organisations working together in order to make the online experience more educational, entertaining and enriching than it is currently. Individually, CIE members each serve large parts of the population. Together, their audience is every man, woman and child in the UK. The commissioning of this research is an excellent example of that cooperation, and its results clearly demonstrate the high regard in which organisations of the type represented by CIE members are held by the public, and the importance that they place in being able to access authoritative, high quality content via the Internet." Chris Batt, Chief Executive of MLA and the Chair of the CIE, said: "This new study is a goldmine of information on users' (and non-users') perceptions of the Internet and the resources and services it offers. Anyone interested in how this new medium is changing our daily lives will want to see these data, and the report provides the Common Information Environment partners with vital new insights that will direct and focus our future work programmes." The results are highly encouraging for the Common Information Environment group, a coalition of public sector information organisations, whose task it is to help create a cross-sectoral partnership to realise the full potential of the Internet for all UK citizens. These organisations include those funding this research; the British Library, DfES (Department for Education & Skills), JISC (Joint Information Systems Committee), MLA (Museums, Libraries & Archives Council), and SLIC (Scottish Library & Information Council). Content of the type provided by these organisations is of precisely the kind that respondents to the survey recognise as trustworthy, reliable and of high quality. The challenge now, the survey suggests, is for Government to actively tackle people's misconceptions and a real skills gap in certain parts of the population, whilst capitalising upon a clear preference for trusted knowledge resources. - end - Notes to Editors: For the results of the MORI survey please go to www.common-info.org.uk/audienceresearch.shtml . A Summary of Findings is available at www.common-info.org.uk/mori-findings.shtml , and some Implications are highlighted for us by MORI at www.common-info.org.uk/mori-implications.shtml . The full report is available to download from www.common-info.org.uk/docs/mori-report.pdf . For press enquiries please contact: Philip Pothen at JISC on 020 7848 2935, email p.pothen@jisc.ac.uk Fiona Cameron at MLA on 020 7273 1459, email fiona.cameron@mla.gov.uk ; The Common Information Environment (CIE) is a collaborative activity involving a growing number of public sector bodies across the United Kingdom. Members currently include Becta, the British Library, the Cabinet Office's e-Government Unit, Culture Online, the Department for Education & Skills (DfES), English Heritage, the e-Science Core Programme, the Joint Information Systems Committee (JISC), the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA), The National Archives, the National Health Service's National Electronic Library for Health (NeLH), the Scottish Library & Information Council (SLIC) and UKOLN. Contact: Dr Paul Miller - Director, Common Information Environment on (07779) 669542 or p.miller@jisc.ac.uk A key focus for CIE activities is the shared recognition that the information held in trust by various organisations should be visible, useful, meaningful and reusable for the widest range of potential beneficiaries. The CIE web site is at www.common-info.org.uk/. The MORI Social Research Institute carried out 2,004 interviews with members of the UK general public aged 16+, face-to-face, in-home between 13 October and 18 November 2004. This included 1,393 respondents who have ever used the web (1,265 current and 128 lapsed users) and 585 who have never used it. At the analysis stage, data were weighted by age and social class to the overall population of the UK using 2001 Census data. Dr Philip Pothen Press and PR Manager, Joint Information Systems Committee (JISC), King's College London, 138-142 The Strand (3rd floor), London WC2R 1HH (t) 020 7848 2935 (m) 07887 564 006 p.pothen@jisc.ac.uk ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From info at textrelease.com Thu Feb 3 06:18:16 2005 From: info at textrelease.com (TextRelease) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: GL7 - Call for Papers Message-ID: SEVENTH INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON GREY LITERATURE "Open Access to Grey Resources" INIST-CNRS 5-6 December 2005 Nancy, France CALL FOR PAPERS http://www.textrelease.com/pages/3 TO: Authors, Publishers, Librarians, Web Editors, Researchers, Policy Makers, Information Managers, Brokers and Vendors, Information Specialists, Intermediaries, Information Technicians, Information Professionals, Journalists, and Academia GUIDELINES FOR THE SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS: Participants who wish to present a paper at GL7 are invited to submit an English abstract between 300-400 words. The abstract should deal with the problem/goal, the research method/procedure, costs related to the project, and the anticipated results/conclusions of the research. The abstract should include the title of the paper, the author(s) name(s) and organization(s), as well as address/phone/fax/email information. This data will be used to compile the GL7 Conference Program. DUE DATE AND FORMAT FOR SUBMISSION: The abstract must be emailed on or before May 17, 2005 in MS Word. The author will receive written verification upon receipt of the abstract. The GL7 Program Committee will use these abstracts in order to finalize the Conference Program. ABSTRACT OF THE PAPER: Abstracts are the only tangible source, which will allow the Program Committee to guarantee content and balance in the sessions and panels. Every effort should be made to reflect the content of your work in the abstract submitted. Abstracts not in compliance with the Guidelines (see above) may be returned to the author for revision. CORRESPONDENCE ADDRESS: TextRelease GL7 Program and Conference Bureau Beysterveld 251 1083 KE Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel/Fax +31(0)20-672.1217 info@textrelease.com http://www.textrelease.com http://www.greynet.org From daniel.chudnov at yale.edu Thu Feb 3 11:14:00 2005 From: daniel.chudnov at yale.edu (Daniel Chudnov) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: list reminder: oss4lib-discuss Message-ID: <42024DC8.4020509@yale.edu> Hi all, just a quick (and approved) reminder that if you're interested in or have questions about anything intersecting the topics of libraries and free/open source software, you might consider joining oss4lib-discuss [1] and discussing/asking there. Regards, -Dan [1] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oss4lib-discuss -- Daniel Chudnov Yale Center for Medical Informatics (203) 737-5789 From gerrymck at iastate.edu Thu Feb 3 11:24:29 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: NPR:'PodCasting' to Music, Talk Fans Online Message-ID: Colleagues/ Another NPR feature about Podcasting ! MUst Be A Treand! - Two Days-in-A-Row - WOW! | 'PodCasting' to Music, Talk Fans Online Listen to this story... by Robert Smith Day to Day, February 1, 2005 ? NPR's Robert Smith reports on the rise of "podcasts" -- amateur music and talk shows created by the users of Apple's popular iPod personal music devices and other digital music players. Whole "shows" of music and talk can be downloaded from the Internet to individual players automatically, and some of the show hosts have become celebrities among the burgeoning podcast audience. [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4473787 ] A (second) Opportunity for Libraries/Librarians ? /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Featured Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From jsnow at bowdoin.edu Thu Feb 3 11:27:45 2005 From: jsnow at bowdoin.edu (Jennifer Snow) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: Blackboard and reserves integration . . . Message-ID: <42025101.1010204@bowdoin.edu> Hi All, We are currently seeking information and best practices on integrating Blackboard course reserves with III. Are any of your institutions using Blackboard and if so, how are you handling the reserves and e-reserves component? Please feel free to respond to me directly at jsnow@bowdoin.edu. I would be happy to provide a summary to the entire group. Many thanks, Jennifer Snow Bowdoin College From gerrymck at iastate.edu Thu Feb 3 13:46:55 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: Disruptive Scholarship Blog Launched Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to inform you of the creation of a New Blog devoted to the theme of my Wiki-based alternative authoring/review/publishing model I call 'Disruptive Scholarship' The Disruptive Scholarship blog is located at [ http://disruptivescholarship.blogspot.com ] The Disruptive Scholarship model is sketched in the first posting to the blog. I Welcome Any and All Comments on MyPosting(s) and Look Forward to Exploring the Future of Scholarly Communication, Review, and Publishing. [Of course, the Disruptive Scholarship Blog will in time be replaced by the Disruptive Scholarship Wiki :-)] Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Disruptive Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From Rebecca.Albrecht at purchase.edu Thu Feb 3 16:34:45 2005 From: Rebecca.Albrecht at purchase.edu (Albrecht, Rebecca) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <2E6E2E8D0A170A4CB44B5C89DD7B4050114985@SVEXCHBE02.purchase.edu> Cross posted to Web4Lib, LIBREF-L, ili-l, acrlny-l, REFORMA, ERIL-L. LISJobs, WALDO-L > Purchase College has 2 professional openings. One of these positions was posted previously, however, it has been re-described and re-posted. Please share these with any potentially interested individuals. > > > SYSTEMS/ELECTRONIC RESOURCES LIBRARIAN, Purchase College, State University of New York (SUNY). > Seeking self-motivated and innovative librarian to develop and administer a remotely hosted Ex Libris/Aleph library management system including SFX. The ideal candidate will have a strong information technology background and aptitude. Manages a substantial collection of electronic resources - ensures remote access through EZ Proxy, maintains usage statistics, resolves access problems, monitors new products and functionality. Opportunity to participate in collection development, instruction, and reference depending on background. > > REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS: ALA-accredited MLS; excellent communication > skills; ability to master a variety of computer applications; ability to work effectively in a collegial environment; strong organizational skills. > PREFERRED: Subject Master> '> s degree; knowledge of Windows compatible > hardware, software, operating systems, and HTML; experience with web page creation; familiarity with file management in a UNIX environment; systems experience with library management systems, preferably Ex Libris> '> Aleph. > > Salary: $43,000 - $48,000, commensurate with qualifications and experience. > Faculty rank: Senior Assistant Librarian; 12 month, tenure track. Excellent benefits. > > Send letter of application, resume, and names of at least three references > to: Affirmative Action Officer, Purchase College/SUNY, 735 Anderson Hill Rd., Purchase, NY 10577. Review of applications begins immediately and continues until position is filled. > An Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. Women and minorities encouraged to apply. > > > > REFERENCE LIBRARIAN, Purchase College, State University of New York (SUNY). > Seeking an energetic librarian to provide general reference service with a specialization in the natural or social sciences. Serves as liaison to the School of Natural and Social Sciences with collection development responsibility. Participates in an active information literacy program, teaching both introductory and specialized sessions. Develops and maintains web pages. Serves at the reference desk - occasional evening and weekend hours. > > REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS: ALA-accredited MLS; strong academic background in at least one of the sciences (biology, math/computer science, psychology, chemistry, environmental studies) or social sciences; excellent written and oral communication skills. > PREFERRED: Subject Master's degree; reference or instruction experience in an academic library; HTML skills and web development experience. > > Salary $40,000 - $43,000, commensurate with qualifications and experience. > Faculty rank: Senior Assistant Librarian; 12 month, tenure track. Excellent benefits. Send letter of application, resume, and names of at least three references to: Affirmative Action Officer, Purchase College/SUNY, 735 Anderson Hill Rd., Purchase, NY 10577. Review of applications begins immediately and continues until filled. > An Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. Women and minorities encouraged to apply. > > > > > Patrick F. Callahan > Director of the Library > Purchase College, SUNY > 735 Anderson Hill Road > Purchase, NY 10577-1400 > (914) 251-6436 > Fax (914) 251-6437 > Patrick.callahan@purchase.edu > > ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From jwang_94121 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 3 17:15:36 2005 From: jwang_94121 at yahoo.com (Jacob Wang) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: Spartan Daily - article from Jacob Wang Message-ID: <20050203221536.4BDEC360FE@faddis.newdigitalgroup.com> Jacob Wang thought you would be interested in this article at Spartan Daily (http://www.thespartandaily.com). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic books give students cheaper alternatives Others save big by shopping online http://www.thespartandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/02/4201b3a99f0ac From gerrymck at iastate.edu Thu Feb 3 11:24:29 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: [DIGLIB] NPR:'PodCasting' to Music, Talk Fans Online Message-ID: Colleagues/ Another NPR feature about Podcasting ! MUst Be A Treand! - Two Days-in-A-Row - WOW! | 'PodCasting' to Music, Talk Fans Online Listen to this story... by Robert Smith Day to Day, February 1, 2005 ? NPR's Robert Smith reports on the rise of "podcasts" -- amateur music and talk shows created by the users of Apple's popular iPod personal music devices and other digital music players. Whole "shows" of music and talk can be downloaded from the Internet to individual players automatically, and some of the show hosts have become celebrities among the burgeoning podcast audience. [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4473787 ] A (second) Opportunity for Libraries/Librarians ? /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Featured Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To post messages to DIGLIB, send messages to: diglib@infoserv.inist.fr Manage your account, change subscription options, or visit the archive at: http://infoserv.inist.fr/wwsympa.fcgi/info/diglib DIGLIB requires that subscribers login with a password to change their list profiles. First time users can request a password from the page above. Any questions can be directed to one of the list moderators. To unsubscribe: mailto:[conf->email]@[conf->host]?subject=sig%20[list->name]%20[user->email] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From jlenze at tln.lib.mi.us Thu Feb 3 19:12:35 2005 From: jlenze at tln.lib.mi.us (James B. Lenze) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox upgrades and Flash Message-ID: <1043.198.111.165.82.1107475955.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Have you thought of using DeepFreeze? If you suspect that a patron has been installing unwanted programs/upgrades you can just reboot and all the changes are forgotten. (Unless I am mistaken.) -- James B. Lenze, TechnoBoss Garden City Library PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: jlenze@garden-city.lib.mi.us On Tue, February 1, 2005 14:55, Pearson Dana said: > Our library adopted Firebird (Firefox) a year or so > ago for our public access machines. One problem we > have not solved yet is the loss of the Flash plugin > when upgrading to newer versions. Our patrons often > initiate the upgrade when they find themselves at the > mozilla site or when they see a "click here to > download the plugin" on a web page. We generally move > someone to another machine until we can reinstall > Flash. Although we use Fortres 101 to lock the > machines down, i.e., to prevent application installs, > upgrades to Firefox are apparently possible; Flash > installation requires disabling Fortres and an > administrative login. > > Can anyone suggest a solution to this minor problem? > > Thanks, dana > > Dana Pearson, MLIS > Tech Systems, Inc. > dpearson@techsystemsinc.net > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? > http://my.yahoo.com > > From gerrymck at iastate.edu Thu Feb 3 13:46:55 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: [DIGLIB] Disruptive Scholarship Blog Launched Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to inform you of the creation of a New Blog devoted to the theme of my Wiki-based alternative authoring/review/publishing model I call 'Disruptive Scholarship' The Disruptive Scholarship blog is located at [ http://disruptivescholarship.blogspot.com ] The Disruptive Scholarship model is sketched in the first posting to the blog. I Welcome Any and All Comments on MyPosting(s) and Look Forward to Exploring the Future of Scholarly Communication, Review, and Publishing. [Of course, the Disruptive Scholarship Blog will in time be replaced by the Disruptive Scholarship Wiki :-)] Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Disruptive Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To post messages to DIGLIB, send messages to: diglib@infoserv.inist.fr Manage your account, change subscription options, or visit the archive at: http://infoserv.inist.fr/wwsympa.fcgi/info/diglib DIGLIB requires that subscribers login with a password to change their list profiles. First time users can request a password from the page above. Any questions can be directed to one of the list moderators. To unsubscribe: mailto:[conf->email]@[conf->host]?subject=sig%20[list->name]%20[user->email] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From callimachus2002 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 3 19:51:59 2005 From: callimachus2002 at yahoo.com (Pearson Dana) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox upgrades and Flash In-Reply-To: <1043.198.111.165.82.1107475955.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Message-ID: <20050204005159.54740.qmail@web13603.mail.yahoo.com> We're stuck with Fortres 101 for now, so DeepFreeze or similar approaches are not an option. I was hoping someone knew why Flash does not survice upgrades, if that is what is happening. It's not a major problem but we'd like to look like we know what we're doing and not have to move people until Flash can be reinstalled. Our tech guy thinks we lose it during mozilla upgrades that Fortres appears to allow. We don't loose other plugins. Thanks, dana Dana Pearson, MLIS Tech Systems, Inc. dana.pearson@techsystemsinc.net --- "James B. Lenze" wrote: > > Have you thought of using DeepFreeze? If you > suspect that a patron has > been installing unwanted programs/upgrades you can > just reboot and all the > changes are forgotten. (Unless I am mistaken.) > > -- > James B. Lenze, TechnoBoss > Garden City Library > > PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: > jlenze@garden-city.lib.mi.us > > On Tue, February 1, 2005 14:55, Pearson Dana said: > > Our library adopted Firebird (Firefox) a year or > so > > ago for our public access machines. One problem > we > > have not solved yet is the loss of the Flash > plugin > > when upgrading to newer versions. Our patrons > often > > initiate the upgrade when they find themselves at > the > > mozilla site or when they see a "click here to > > download the plugin" on a web page. We generally > move > > someone to another machine until we can reinstall > > Flash. Although we use Fortres 101 to lock the > > machines down, i.e., to prevent application > installs, > > upgrades to Firefox are apparently possible; Flash > > installation requires disabling Fortres and an > > administrative login. > > > > Can anyone suggest a solution to this minor > problem? > > > > Thanks, dana > > > > Dana Pearson, MLIS > > Tech Systems, Inc. > > dpearson@techsystemsinc.net > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? > > http://my.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Jim.Crowley at spl.org Thu Feb 3 20:14:53 2005 From: Jim.Crowley at spl.org (Jim Crowley) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:56 2005 Subject: public library usage statistics Message-ID: I apologize if this topic has been covered previously. The public library where I work is becoming increasingly interested in measuring and evaluating the public's use of its branch library web pages. Are there any forums or resources available for sharing and comparing usage statistics for public library web sites? Thanks. --Jim Crowley jim.crowley@spl.org From digicult-forum at digicult.info Tue Feb 8 03:51:46 2005 From: digicult-forum at digicult.info (digicult-forum) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: DigiCULT Thematic Issue 7: The Future Digital Heritage Space - An Expedition Report Message-ID: <42087DA2.50700@digicult.info> DigiCULT Thematic Issue 7 - Now Available The Future Digital Heritage Space. An Expedition Report. This report summarises the results of an expedition into the possible future of digital heritage in the next 10-15 years. It is based on contributions from researchers, heritage experts and professionals to a DigiCULT online forum as well as the project's ongoing research. The report is intended as a navigation tool for boards and directors of heritage organisations and research centres, IT project managers, and curators of digital collections, virtual exhibitions and environments. It cautions that the next waves of innovative ICT systems and applications may significantly shape and re-shape the digital landscape in which heritage organisations reside. For many organisations this could result in becoming 'blind spots' in an emerging ambient intelligence environment. As the places and roles of digital heritage in this environment need to be discussed and prepared, the report also gives recommendations which may be useful for ensuring the creation of a thriving and inclusive future digital heritage space. Download Thematic Issue 7: (10 MB) http://www.digicult.info/downloads/dc_thematic_issue7.pdf DigiCULT Publications offer a valuable resource of mission-critical information in the selection and use of digital technologies for Europe's heritage organisations: - Thematic Issues: results of expert forums http://www.digicult.info/pages/Themiss.php - DigiCULT Technology Watch Reports: in-depth technology evaluation http://www.digicult.info/pages/techwatch.php - DigiCULT.Info Newsletter: articles about services, studies, technologies, and activities http://www.digicult.info/pages/newsletter.php Subscribe to the Newsletter DigiCULT.Info http://www.digicult.info/pages/subscribe.php (c) DigiCULT Forum 2002-2004 From gerrymck at iastate.edu Tue Feb 8 13:18:22 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: Skype/Intenet Phone Services for Digital/Virtual/Chat Reference Service? Message-ID: Colleagues/ Yesterday, NPR has a great overview piece about Skype and other Internet calling services" "Morning Edition, February 7, 2005 ? A growing number of people are making cheap long-distance calls using the Internet and special telephone adapters. Others are talking for free, relying solely on their computers and services like Skype [ http://www.skype.com ] Skype has become hugely popular with colleges kids and their parents, who like to stay in touch without running up a bill. Renee Montagne used Skype to talk with New York Times Technology writer David Pogue about the options of making contact without involving phone companies." [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4488307 ] I am curious to know if any library is using Skype for local, regional, and/or consortial Digital/Virtual/Chat service(s). TIA! /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Long-Distant Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From lbell927 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 8 13:48:09 2005 From: lbell927 at yahoo.com (Lori Bell) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Skype/Intenet Phone Services for Digital/Virtual/Chat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050208184809.14129.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> We are using a software called Talking Communities ivocalize to provide InfoEyes virtual reference service. The software is very inexpensive and allows us to use voice over IP, co-browsing and text chat. We also hold many meetings and programs using the software! If anyone would like to try it or see a demo, you can see a list of programs http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm. If you would like a demo, let me know. Thanks, Lori Bell Gerry Mckiernan wrote: Colleagues/ Yesterday, NPR has a great overview piece about Skype and other Internet calling services" "Morning Edition, February 7, 2005 · A growing number of people are making cheap long-distance calls using the Internet and special telephone adapters. Others are talking for free, relying solely on their computers and services like Skype [ http://www.skype.com ] Skype has become hugely popular with colleges kids and their parents, who like to stay in touch without running up a bill. Renee Montagne used Skype to talk with New York Times Technology writer David Pogue about the options of making contact without involving phone companies." [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4488307 ] I am curious to know if any library is using Skype for local, regional, and/or consortial Digital/Virtual/Chat service(s). TIA! /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Long-Distant Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 14:09:03 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: Bloglines - Ask Jeeves has acquired Bloglines Message-ID: It will be interesting to see what this does to free blogging. Bill Drew ________________________________ Bloglines | News The Latest News And Updates From Bloglines Ask Jeeves has acquired Bloglines Dear Bloglines Member: Ask Jeeves has acquired Bloglines, and we're excited about becoming the newest member of their portfolio of web services. We view this as a huge step forward for Bloglines, and a chance to achieve our mission of making RSS news reading and blogging a part of everyone's internet experience. You can learn more about the transaction by reading our press release or reviewing our Frequently Asked Questions. We want to assure you that the Bloglines service will continue to grow and thrive. Like other companies in the Ask Jeeves portfolio, we will operate as a standalone, separate service -- the Bloglines name will remain, as will our URL, www.bloglines.com. We will support our current features and services, so please continue to log in to Bloglines to search, subscribe, publish and share RSS news feeds and blogs. All users will continue to be governed by the Terms of Service you agreed to when you registered for Bloglines. We have a great roadmap on how to integrate some of the many innovative technologies of Ask Jeeves, including its Teoma algorithmic search technology. As always, we will share news of our progress on our blog, Bloglines News . And we encourage you to participate in the conversation. Our users have been amazing help in guiding the evolution of Bloglines, and we hope you will continue to give us input so we can remain the gold standard in blogging, search, and news aggregation. We understand you may have questions about the acquisition and we'll try to answer them all as best we can. Please continue to contact our customer service with your questions and comments. Thanks for your loyalty, patience, encouragement and feedback throughout this exciting process. All the best, Mark Fletcher and the Bloglines Team From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Feb 8 14:27:04 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Bloglines - Ask Jeeves has acquired Bloglines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050208192705.9242E28482@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > It will be interesting to see what this does to free blogging. > > Bill Drew My hunch is not that much in either direction; there are so many places to do free blogging already, such as Blogger. As an easy, free web-based aggregator, I've liked Bloglines, but it has some limitations. I don't know what will happen now that it's Gone Jeevey, but if I had my druthers I'd rather have a web- or browser-based aggregator that could come bundled with a brief tutorial, a default webpage, and a built-in list of feeds we recommend. Gee, I was thinking about that in terms of feeds for lii.org plus a handful of selected feeds, but an interesting project would be to take all 16k sites in LII and extract such feeds as the related URLs made discoverable. "RSS you can trust." Hmmm. Anyway, my custom-aggregator idea sounds as if it might be something Firefox would enable, if someone coded it. Does it? Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From gerrymck at iastate.edu Tue Feb 8 15:34:38 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (gerrymck@iastate.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Skype/Intenet Phone Services for Digital/Virtual/Chat Message-ID: Colleagues/ Yesterday, NPR has a great overview piece about Skype and other Internet calling services" "Morning Edition, February 7, 2005 ? A growing number of people are making cheap long-distance calls using the Internet and special telephone adapters. Others are talking for free, relying solely on their computers and services like Skype [ http://www.skype.com ] Skype has become hugely popular with colleges kids and their parents, who like to stay in touch without running up a bill. Renee Montagne used Skype to talk with New York Times Technology writer David Pogue about the options of making contact without involving phone companies." [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4488307 ] I am curious to know if any library is using Skype for local, regional, and/or consortial Digital/Virtual/Chat service(s). TIA! /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Long-Distant Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:EF975338EE608BB7AA8C39636041F205 -------------- next part -------------- ************************************************************ Non-text elements of this multipart message have been deleted to make the message conform with the policies of this list ************************************************************ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 16:39:40 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: Library blog question Message-ID: I am planning on bringing our library blog into production late in the spring or early summer. It is at http://l2.morrisville.edu/blog. It currently contains only test entries and a few with actual useful information in them. I am looking for some way to make them available via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an RSS feed. It is running on an old IBM 300GL running Apache2 under Ubuntu flavor of Linux using blosxom to run the blog. It is entirely open source free software. I do not have comments enabled and probably will not. Any suggestions for the e-mail portion? It must be open source and free. I would appreciate any other constructive comments as well. I have posted this message to web4lib-l and to Linux in Libraries lists. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog:http://www.bloglines.com/blog/BillDrew "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From gerrymck at iastate.edu Tue Feb 8 16:56:54 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: New Posting to Disruptive Scholarship Blog Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to announce the SecondPosting to my _Disruptive Scholarship_ blog [ http://disruptivescholarship.blogspot.com ] Invisible Hand(s) There are forces, factors, and influences _other than_ pending classical peer review that assure the quality of scholarship _before_ formal publication. * "Invisible Hand(s): Quality Assurance in the Age of Author Self-Archiving," Jekyll.comm: International Journal on Science Communication no. 6 (September 2003). Available at [ http://jekyll.comm.sissa.it/commenti/foc06_01_eng.pdf ] (accessed 8 February 2005) * PowerPoint version self-archived at [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gerrymck/Hands.ppt ] (accessed 8 February 2005). The content of these two format is identical. I believe however that Many Will Find The PPT More Entertaining [:-) As Always, I Welcome Any and All Comments, Cosmic Insights, Observations, Critiques, Criticisms, Etc. BTW: ThanksToAll who commented on PostingOne!!! Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Second Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From msauers at bcr.org Tue Feb 8 17:01:28 2005 From: msauers at bcr.org (Michael Sauers) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701c50e29$c0ecce80$50912dc7@sauers> > I am looking for some way to make them available > via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to > let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive > it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note > saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an > RSS feed. Bill; It may have been on this list, it may have been on another, but you're the second person I've encountered in the past week on this issue. What's with the wanting e-mail notification of updates. Notification are what the RSS feeds are for! And, if you notify them of the update via e-mail they then have to go to the site to read the post. RSS notifies them, and gives them the content, reducing what the user needs to do by 50% and significantly increasing the chance that they'll actually read your content since they won't have to go get it for themselves. Fine, your users may not be "RSS capable" at this point but this gives you the perfect opportunity to teach them. Help them become more technologically save and at the same time show them that it's not difficult. (This can only make your life easier in the long run when your users are more educated.) Why fall back on e-mail when you've got the perfect solution (RSS feeds) already in place and working? -------------------------------------------------- Michael Sauers, Librarian, Trainer & Author Bibliographical Center for Research (BCR) Aurora, CO :: 303-751-6277 x110 :: msauers@bcr.org Yahoo & Skype: msauers AIM: msauers1 -------------------------------------------------- From brounk at mail.nih.gov Tue Feb 8 17:03:06 2005 From: brounk at mail.nih.gov (Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI)) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question Message-ID: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0F6B5@nihexchange11.nih.gov> You could use something like rss2email to generate the emails, and a mailing list server like your ls.suny.edu to manage the addresses. In case you have too much time on your hands :-) , I wrote about a custom solution to this problem, and briefly discussed open source solutions, in LJ netConnect last year . Kevin Broun Senior Web Developer Communication Services Branch National Cancer Institute kbroun@nih.gov 301/402-2271 -----Original Message----- From: Drew, Bill [mailto:drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question I am planning on bringing our library blog into production late in the spring or early summer. It is at http://l2.morrisville.edu/blog. It currently contains only test entries and a few with actual useful information in them. I am looking for some way to make them available via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an RSS feed. It is running on an old IBM 300GL running Apache2 under Ubuntu flavor of Linux using blosxom to run the blog. It is entirely open source free software. I do not have comments enabled and probably will not. Any suggestions for the e-mail portion? It must be open source and free. I would appreciate any other constructive comments as well. I have posted this message to web4lib-l and to Linux in Libraries lists. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog:http://www.bloglines.com/blog/BillDrew "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From gerrymck at iastate.edu Tue Feb 8 16:56:54 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [Asis-l] New Posting to Disruptive Scholarship Blog Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to announce the SecondPosting to my _Disruptive Scholarship_ blog [ http://disruptivescholarship.blogspot.com ] Invisible Hand(s) There are forces, factors, and influences _other than_ pending classical peer review that assure the quality of scholarship _before_ formal publication. * "Invisible Hand(s): Quality Assurance in the Age of Author Self-Archiving," Jekyll.comm: International Journal on Science Communication no. 6 (September 2003). Available at [ http://jekyll.comm.sissa.it/commenti/foc06_01_eng.pdf ] (accessed 8 February 2005) * PowerPoint version self-archived at [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gerrymck/Hands.ppt ] (accessed 8 February 2005). The content of these two format is identical. I believe however that Many Will Find The PPT More Entertaining [:-) As Always, I Welcome Any and All Comments, Cosmic Insights, Observations, Critiques, Criticisms, Etc. BTW: ThanksToAll who commented on PostingOne!!! Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Second Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu ____ ________________________________________ Asis-l mailing list Asis-l@asis.org http://mail.asis.org/mailman/listinfo/asis-l From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 17:10:03 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: I don't want to start a flame war here but I am looking to get information to them in the way they prefer or are familiar with, not what I might prefer. RSS being considered better than e-mail is a preference not a fact. Please don't hijack this post for such a dead end discussion. Bill Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sauers > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:06 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question > > > I am looking for some way to make them available > > via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find > some way to > > let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have > them receive > > it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle > for a note > > saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each > category has an > > RSS feed. > > Bill; > > It may have been on this list, it may have been on another, > but you're the > second person I've encountered in the past week on this > issue. What's with > the wanting e-mail notification of updates. Notification are > what the RSS From brounk at mail.nih.gov Tue Feb 8 17:26:40 2005 From: brounk at mail.nih.gov (Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI)) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0F6B6@nihexchange11.nih.gov> Yup, I have to agree with Bill. Just looked at my server logs for 2005 so far. I can attribute a few dozen hits on my library/intranet RSS feeds to IP addresses other than my own. Over the same time period, we have sent a couple thousand emails notifying several hundred different clients about content they've subscribed to. Sure, we can do more to educate our users about the feeds -- but for the most part, they aren't interested or ready for it yet. I also discussed this issue in that article I was flacking in my last post... - Kevin Kevin Broun Senior Web Developer National Cancer Institute kbroun@nih.gov -----Original Message----- From: Drew, Bill [mailto:drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question I don't want to start a flame war here but I am looking to get information to them in the way they prefer or are familiar with, not what I might prefer. RSS being considered better than e-mail is a preference not a fact. Please don't hijack this post for such a dead end discussion. Bill Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sauers > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:06 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question > > > I am looking for some way to make them available > > via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find > some way to > > let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have > them receive > > it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle > for a note > > saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each > category has an > > RSS feed. > > Bill; > > It may have been on this list, it may have been on another, > but you're the > second person I've encountered in the past week on this > issue. What's with > the wanting e-mail notification of updates. Notification are > what the RSS From wilsona at oclc.org Tue Feb 8 17:36:44 2005 From: wilsona at oclc.org (Wilson,Alane) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question Message-ID: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFDFB@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Hi Bill: why the long lead time on your blog? One of the beauties of blogging is you can "open" your blog for business in no time flat. Here at OCLC, we got the It's All Good blog up in an afternoon...mind you, that was very plain vanilla (it still is) because none of the 3 authors had experience or time getting the RSS feed set up. That came later. Blogging is about writing and communicating, not about systems and testing, IMO. If you expect your blog to be large, I guess an RSS feed for each category is sensible. But, part of the fun of blogs is the serendipity of reading stuff you had no idea about and having a feed for preselected categories kinda defeats the serendipity factor. Just as it does in library OPACS. :) I personally recommend having comments enabled as a blog (I repeat myself) is about communication which is two-way. To my mind, blogs are a form of conversation among people who have some interests in common. I learn things from comments. And finally, for me, having notification of new entries coming via email would be most annoying....that's why I have a gazillion RSS feeds set up in my reader. But that's me. However, most people will express a preference for something they are already familiar with rather than an unknown. If we all catered to this exclusively, we'd still all have card catalogs. Sometimes it's good to just move along ahead of the crowd and have them catch up. Alane Wilson, MLIS Senior Library Market Consultant Marketing and Library Services OCLC 800-848-5878 x4386 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question I am planning on bringing our library blog into production late in the spring or early summer. It is at http://l2.morrisville.edu/blog. It currently contains only test entries and a few with actual useful information in them. I am looking for some way to make them available via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an RSS feed. It is running on an old IBM 300GL running Apache2 under Ubuntu flavor of Linux using blosxom to run the blog. It is entirely open source free software. I do not have comments enabled and probably will not. Any suggestions for the e-mail portion? It must be open source and free. I would appreciate any other constructive comments as well. I have posted this message to web4lib-l and to Linux in Libraries lists. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog:http://www.bloglines.com/blog/BillDrew "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 17:40:27 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: Frankly, I consider myself a power user and I still prefer to get stuff sent to my e-mail. If there was a decent aggregator for a decent price for Outlook, I would use it. I am now using BlogLines as my aggregator and like it but would prefer not having to open another program. Call me lazy or part of the unwashed masses but I like e-mail. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Broun, > Kevin (NIH/NCI) > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:30 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question > > Yup, I have to agree with Bill. Just looked at my server > logs for 2005 so > far. I can attribute a few dozen hits on my library/intranet > RSS feeds to From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 17:45:08 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: The lead time is to allow me to redesign our webpages to contain the RSS feeds. The major idea behind the blog is to add dynamic content to our website. I am using javascript, RSS2HTML, and RSS feeds to do that. I also want content there when it comes up. This blog is focused on SDI (selective dissemination of information). It is also my first opens source project. I am using the KISS approach. More will follow later! Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Wilson,Alane > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:40 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question > > Hi Bill: why the long lead time on your blog? One of the beauties of > blogging is you can "open" your blog for business in no time > flat. Here > at OCLC, we got the It's All Good blog up in an afternoon...mind you, > that was very plain vanilla (it still is) because none of the > 3 authors > had experience or time getting the RSS feed set up. That came later. > Blogging is about writing and communicating, not about systems and > testing, IMO. > From aneatr01 at ase.tufts.edu Tue Feb 8 17:48:00 2005 From: aneatr01 at ase.tufts.edu (Neatrour, Anna) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: <9544C4F568FAB045BA02DD1742602DEB6D82FC@TFTMEXCH1.tufts.ad.tufts.edu> I have to say, I think having category feeds enabled on a library blog is potentially useful in many ways. A user may only be interested in events coming from the YA department. Categories also provide a quick way of seeing which subject areas of the blog are most active. Here we use a blog for internal communication, and we have an "e-mail this post" plugin (in wordpress) which allows us to e-mail selected content. I don't see how providing more options for users (even if one of them is e-mail) is taking away from the new service the blog will provide. -Anna -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Wilson,Alane Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Hi Bill: why the long lead time on your blog? One of the beauties of blogging is you can "open" your blog for business in no time flat. Here at OCLC, we got the It's All Good blog up in an afternoon...mind you, that was very plain vanilla (it still is) because none of the 3 authors had experience or time getting the RSS feed set up. That came later. Blogging is about writing and communicating, not about systems and testing, IMO. If you expect your blog to be large, I guess an RSS feed for each category is sensible. But, part of the fun of blogs is the serendipity of reading stuff you had no idea about and having a feed for preselected categories kinda defeats the serendipity factor. Just as it does in library OPACS. :) I personally recommend having comments enabled as a blog (I repeat myself) is about communication which is two-way. To my mind, blogs are a form of conversation among people who have some interests in common. I learn things from comments. And finally, for me, having notification of new entries coming via email would be most annoying....that's why I have a gazillion RSS feeds set up in my reader. But that's me. However, most people will express a preference for something they are already familiar with rather than an unknown. If we all catered to this exclusively, we'd still all have card catalogs. Sometimes it's good to just move along ahead of the crowd and have them catch up. Alane Wilson, MLIS Senior Library Market Consultant Marketing and Library Services OCLC 800-848-5878 x4386 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Library blog question I am planning on bringing our library blog into production late in the spring or early summer. It is at http://l2.morrisville.edu/blog. It currently contains only test entries and a few with actual useful information in them. I am looking for some way to make them available via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an RSS feed. It is running on an old IBM 300GL running Apache2 under Ubuntu flavor of Linux using blosxom to run the blog. It is entirely open source free software. I do not have comments enabled and probably will not. Any suggestions for the e-mail portion? It must be open source and free. I would appreciate any other constructive comments as well. I have posted this message to web4lib-l and to Linux in Libraries lists. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog:http://www.bloglines.com/blog/BillDrew "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 17:51:41 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: I am doing both if this goes as planned. My job is not to always drag people into using they don't want to use. It is to get information to them in the form they can use when they need it or before they need it. I may live on the cutting edge at times but I can not expect our users to do that. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > And finally, for me, having notification of new entries > coming via email > would be most annoying....that's why I have a gazillion RSS > feeds set up > in my reader. But that's me. However, most people will express a > preference for something they are already familiar with rather than an > unknown. If we all catered to this exclusively, we'd still > all have card > catalogs. Sometimes it's good to just move along ahead of the > crowd and > have them catch up. From holly.k.hill at us.army.mil Tue Feb 8 17:51:31 2005 From: holly.k.hill at us.army.mil (Hill, Holly K) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Message-ID: <6106687AD8436648B246FD0C09615EB0017CDC0B@knoxdoimc3.nase.ds.army.mil> Another consideration for use of RSS is whether 'corporate' IT folks will allow one to install an RSS reader on computer. We can't here -- no 'unauthorized' software is allowed, and the PTB don't see a need for RSS. Email is ok, though. I have an RSS reader at home, and I still prefer email Holly Hill Barr Memorial Library Fort Knox, KY www.knoxmwr.com ICE (Interactive Customer Evaluation) -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question Frankly, I consider myself a power user and I still prefer to get stuff sent to my e-mail. If there was a decent aggregator for a decent price for Outlook, I would use it. I am now using BlogLines as my aggregator and like it but would prefer not having to open another program. Call me lazy or part of the unwashed masses but I like e-mail. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Broun, > Kevin (NIH/NCI) > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:30 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question > > Yup, I have to agree with Bill. Just looked at my server > logs for 2005 so > far. I can attribute a few dozen hits on my library/intranet > RSS feeds to ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 8 17:53:44 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: Library blog question - corrected URL! Message-ID: There was a typo in the URL for the blog. Here is the corrected message. I am planning on bringing our library blog into production late in the spring or early summer. It is at http://lib2.morrisville.edu/blog. It currently contains only test entries and a few with actual useful information in them. I am looking for some way to make them available via e-mail as new entries are added. I would like to find some way to let patrons "subscribe" to a particular category and have them receive it via e-mail, preferably the actual entry but would settle for a note saying it had been updated or a new entry added. Each category has an RSS feed. It is running on an old IBM 300GL running Apache2 under Ubuntu flavor of Linux using blosxom to run the blog. It is entirely open source free software. I do not have comments enabled and probably will not. Any suggestions for the e-mail portion? It must be open source and free. I would appreciate any other constructive comments as well. I have posted this message to web4lib-l and to Linux in Libraries lists. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog:http://www.bloglines.com/blog/BillDrew "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Feb 8 18:19:37 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question In-Reply-To: <9544C4F568FAB045BA02DD1742602DEB6D82FC@TFTMEXCH1.tufts.ad.tufts.edu> Message-ID: <20050208231939.3C4BC28712@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > If you expect your blog to be large, I guess an RSS feed for each > category is sensible. But, part of the fun of blogs is the serendipity > of reading stuff you had no idea about and having a feed for preselected > categories kinda defeats the serendipity factor. Just as it does in > library OPACS. :) It all depends on how you define blogging--is it commentary-style blogging or are you using blogs/RSS to deliver specific types of content? If the latter, your users may not want serendipity. They may want just the bananas and the pickles. That's how I get many news-related feeds: I subscribe to the major categories I follow. We dearly want to be able to add RSS feeds for each of the 15 major categories and "roll-your-own-feed" capabilities for lii.org, so that new and newly-announced entries (what we call "retreads") can be retrieved by category. That would support users who want us to just "bring it on!" and those who say "just the bananas and the pickles, please." Even in OPACs, there is much, much I don't want. Ever. As information turns from a trickle to a river to an ocean, helping fine-tune what users get may become a big part of our role. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Feb 8 18:32:29 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question In-Reply-To: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFDFB@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <20050208233229.BAEFD25535@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > And finally, for me, having notification of new entries coming via email > would be most annoying....that's why I have a gazillion RSS feeds set up > in my reader. But that's me. However, most people will express a > preference for something they are already familiar with rather than an > unknown. If we all catered to this exclusively, we'd still all have card > catalogs. Sometimes it's good to just move along ahead of the crowd and > have them catch up. On this point, I agree. Here's a new service. They can read it online or they can use an aggregator to subscribe to it. You aren't taking away an existing service by adding this blog, and they can get to it even if they don't want to use an aggregator. Yes, they are customers, and customers need to be treated right... but email management requires overhead, and overhead takes away from other services you could be providing, and overall I think the cultural expectation of blogs is that they are read online and not through email, so you won't lose any cred. You can lead them to a new service. Make it easy for them; make it fun. Make the new tools seem like the best thing since sliced bread. I remember introducing receipt printers to a small rural library when we went online, and through a combination of prevarication and marketing we convinced users that a) we couldn't check out books any other way and b) this was really a major step up for our users. We also gave out magnets to hold the receipt printers and pointed out they now had a list of what they had checked out. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From jm235 at mizzou.edu Tue Feb 8 20:10:58 2005 From: jm235 at mizzou.edu (jm235) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: Easy bloglines for librarians Message-ID: <9394981706E7D846B0BC3DADD53E18F1018329A1@UM-EMAIL06.um.umsystem.edu> Karen G. Schneider wrote: >if I had my druthers I'd rather have a web- >or browser-based aggregator that could come >bundled with a brief tutorial, a default webpage, >and a built-in list of feeds we recommend. Bloglines for Librarians in Three (and a half) Easy Steps: http://joy.mollprojects.com/blog/projects/quickrss.html This isn't as cool as Karen's custom-aggregator idea, but I'm hoping it will be a quick way to get librarians who are curious about RSS aggregators started. I came up with this because members of my study group want an introduction to RSS aggregators this week. Since we're supposed to be, ya know, studying, I wanted to make it go as quickly as possible. It seemed to me that they didn't really need to be presented with three or four options in aggregators and lists of hundreds of LIS related feeds. They just need to get something going fast to see if they like it, and let it grow from there. The centerpiece of this 3 step system is a dummy account I created on Bloglines (at which point I discovered that Bloglines gets pretty confused if you create two accounts from one computer, but fortunately didn't break entirely). I populated this account with a small selection of feeds that show the variety of LIS content available. I'm planning to announce this on newlib-l after I've tried it on my study group, but I wanted to run it past this group for suggestions first. Thanks! --Joy Joy Weese Moll, student School of Information Science and Learning Technologies University of Missouri My website has moved! Read the blog, Wanderings of a Student Librarian, at this address: http://joy.mollprojects.com/blog/ From dmattison at shaw.ca Tue Feb 8 21:45:13 2005 From: dmattison at shaw.ca (D.H. Mattison) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Library blog question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Has anyone used IzyNews (http://www.izynews.com/en/default.aspx?)? I have it set up in Outlook 2000 and it runs through the IMAP protocol. Works ok, but I still prefer a standalone RSS aggregator or something like Bloglines. David Mattison Victoria, BC, Canada dmattison@shaw.ca Tiki Wiki Hut: http://www.davidmattison.ca/tiki Ten Thousand Year Blog: http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Feb 11 10:15:54 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] WAG the Dog PHP Localizer v. 0.3 released Message-ID: Ross I have it working for SFX but not for books. Please go to http://lib2.morrisville.edu/phpwag/localizer.html and try out my version. I get the error message on the page of: Fatal error: Call to undefined function: yaz_connect() in /var/www/phpwag/lib/books.inc.php on line 142 Does that mean I don't have yaz on my server? What should I do to get just the ISBN search to work for my catalog if I don't have yaz? Where can I find yaz? Bill Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 1:19 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] WAG the Dog PHP Localizer v. 0.3 released > > [Pardon the cross-postings] > Hi everyone, > > I have released version 0.3 of the WAG the Dog Web Localizer. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Feb 11 11:19:47 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] WAG the Dog PHP Localizer v. 0.3 released Message-ID: What directory would I install yaz-1.0.2 on a ubuntu linux (debian variant) machine so I can get the Z39.50 part of this working? The instructions that come with yaz do not say where to install it. I have the SFX side going with no problems. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From eleonard at library.ucsd.edu Fri Feb 11 14:20:17 2005 From: eleonard at library.ucsd.edu (Elisabeth Leonard) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: ELECTRONIC INFORMATION SERVICES COORDINATOR, UC San Diego Message-ID: ELECTRONIC INFORMATION SERVICES COORDINATOR, UC San Diego, Social Sciences = & Humanities Library. Preferred appt level: Assistant Librarian II =96 = Associate Librarian IV, approx. salary range of $40,560-$52,620. The = Libraries of the University of California, San Diego (UCSD) seek applicatio= ns from innovative professionals to provide leadership for the effective = use of electronic information services and resources, web services, and = public services computing in the Social Sciences & Humanities Library = (SSHL). Requires MLS degree or equivalent; experience with relevant = information technology, including demonstrated experience and skill with = desktop software; knowledge of current and emerging technologies impacting = libraries; project management and planning skills; demonstrated experience = and skill with web design and development, and content management systems; = knowledge of electronic resources, including issues relating to their = sources, acquisitions, organization, use, and evaluation; experience in a = technologically complex setting; knowledge of scholarly communication = patterns in academic libraries; understanding of digital issues facing = academic libraries; demonstrated knowledge of a wide range of print and = electronic reference and bibliographic tools in the humanities and social = sciences; strong commitment to excellence in service and ability to work = both independently and collaboratively in a complex, changing environment; = commitment to user-centered web and public service design. UCSD is an = equal opportunity/affirmative action employer committed to excellence = through diversity. Application consideration will continue until the = position is filled. For more details, see http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/fac/EISC.= htm. Send application letter including a statement of qualifications, a = full resume of education and relevant experience, and the names of at = least three persons who are knowledgeable about your qualifications, Ref = Code 3, for this position to libraryjobs@ucsd.edu or to Amanda Lawhorn, = Recruitment Specialist, UCSD Library Human Resources-0175H, 9500 Gilman = Drive, La Jolla, CA 92093-0175. Elisabeth Leonard Department Head, Reference, Instruction & Outreach Social Sciences & Humanities Library University of California, San Diego 9500 Gilman Drive, 0175R La Jolla, CA 92093-0175 Phone (858) 534-5398 Fax (858) 534-7548 eleonard@ucsd.edu ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From steveua at yahoo.com Fri Feb 11 15:09:13 2005 From: steveua at yahoo.com (Steven Turner) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: WAG the Dog PHP Localizer v. 0.3 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050211200914.95620.qmail@web53802.mail.yahoo.com> Bill - I believe that is a PHP YAZ function, and that the YAZ library needs to compiled into PHP in order for you to use the specified functions.... Steve Turner "Drew, Bill" wrote: What directory would I install yaz-1.0.2 on a ubuntu linux (debian variant) machine so I can get the Z39.50 part of this working? The instructions that come with yaz do not say where to install it. I have the SFX side going with no problems. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu ****************************************************** Steven Turner, M.L.I.S. Assistant Professor Web Manager / Electronic Resources Librarian The University of Southern Mississippi email: Steven.Turner@usm.edu / Phone: (601)266-4066 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From mfrisque at northwestern.edu Fri Feb 11 19:04:17 2005 From: mfrisque at northwestern.edu (Michelle Frisque) Date: Wed May 18 14:17:59 2005 Subject: Usability Consultant Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20050211180245.0237a288@lulu.it.northwestern.edu> ALA would like to hire a Usability Consultant to do a review of the ALA web site. Have any of you hired someone to do Usability Testing of a web site? Is there any advice you would give to an organization that is going to hire a Usability Consultant? ALA is looking for opinions on people or organizations that you would recommend or not recommend for this type of project. They are also wondering how much they should budget for this project. We would appreciate any and all help you could offer. Please reply to me off list. Thanks, Michelle Frisque Chair, ALA Web Advisory Committee From jbiquez at icsmx.com Sat Feb 12 09:47:53 2005 From: jbiquez at icsmx.com (Jorge Biquez) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:00 2005 Subject: * Protection for smaill kids when they surf? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050212084703.01d96d70@mail.icsmx.com> Hello all. I'm helping some schools, very low budget, to setup machines so kids can surf. Wea want to protect them against adult sites, violence sites and so on. Can you give me your suggestions, maybe off line so we do not waste space on the list, bases in experience if possible on what are you using at home or in similar situations? Thanks in advance all your help and comments. Take care, JB From gerrymck at iastate.edu Sat Feb 12 10:31:39 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:00 2005 Subject: Patent Lens(tm): Patent Database Associated with the 'Open Source' Biology Project Message-ID: Colleagues/ FYI: Patent Lens TM : Free/FullText Life Sciences Patent Database [ http://www.bios.net/daisy/bios/50 ] /Gerry TM Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu *************************************************************************** The patent informatics and analysis component of the BIOS initiative aims to assist both professionals and non-professionals to understand and navigate the intellectual property landscape within the life sciences. These tools are an important and necessary component of the BIOS initiative, as they can assist the user to determine the IP boundaries of what is free and what is not free. Perhaps more appropriately this can be framed as: what are the constraints on deliverable innovations, and what are the useable building blocks for future innovations? The resource was initially developed by CAMBIA, as the CAMBIA IP Resource (formerly www.cambiaIP.org). The Intellectual Property (IP) resource currently consists of a fully text-searchable patents database which has recently been greatly expanded to contain 1,500,000 life science patents from the US, Australian and European-based databases, and will soon include others. We also present some key technology patent landscape analyses (white papers), guides to IP policies & practices and intellectual property tutorials. The CAMBIA-BIOS patent search resource now includes INPADOC patent family information provided by the national patent offices of over 70 countries, as well as status information provided by many of these countries. Once you have searched the patent and patent application database and identified patents of interest, a link on the search results page *************************************************************************** BIOS - Biological Innovation for Open Society - is a new initiative of CAMBIA to extend the metaphor and concepts of Open Source to biotechnology and other forms of innovation in biology. [ http://www.bios.net/daisy/bios/15 ] *************************************************************************** Hear Also NPR interview on Science Friday with Richard Jefferson, chairman and chief executive officer, chief scientist CAMBI [ http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4495604 ] ************************************************************************** Read also NYTimes article [ http://www.bios.net/daisy/bios/470 ] ************************************************************************* And the Original Nature artilce [ http://www.bios.net/daisy/bios/462 ] From jbiquez at icsmx.com Sat Feb 12 20:25:07 2005 From: jbiquez at icsmx.com (Jorge Biquez) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] * Protection for smaill kids when they surf? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20050212115218.00b98dc0@mail.shelltown.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050212084703.01d96d70@mail.icsmx.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050212192323.0622cbd8@intratec.com.mx> Hello. Thanks for the answer. We are looking for options for schools, this will be for the computer room of poor schools, some does not even have a library . We will take a look to the license of use of the tool you mention. Thanks. JB At 11:56 a.m. 12/02/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Have you tried the Public AQccess Computing Security Tool? > >'It was developed by the Gates Foundation to use with the computers that >they supplied to many public libraries. > >http://webjunction.org/do/DisplayContent?id=979 > >Isabel > >At 06:57 AM 2/12/2005 -0800, you wrote: >>Hello all. >> >>I'm helping some schools, very low budget, to setup machines so kids can >>surf. Wea want to protect them against adult sites, violence sites and so on. >> >>Can you give me your suggestions, maybe off line so we do not waste space >>on the list, bases in experience if possible on what are you using at home >>or in similar situations? >> >> >> >>Thanks in advance all your help and comments. >> >>Take care, >> >>JB > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Tue Feb 15 08:10:01 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: Web4Lib Frequently Asked Questions List Feb 15 Message-ID: <200502151310.j1FDA1211660@olcfax2.ohiolink.edu> WEB4LIB FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS February 15, 2005 [Note: I am not the Web4Lib listowner. Please do not send subscription problems to me. - Thomas] This is the current set of Frequently Asked Questions (or, perhaps, Frequently Needed Answers) for the Web4Lib mailing list. Questions in this message: How do I unsubscribe from Web4Lib? What help is available if the list software won't do what I want? 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This list will be distributed to Web4Lib on the 1st and 15th of each month with the subject "Web4Lib Frequently Asked Questions List". If your mail client can filter incoming messages based on their subject lines, and if you would rather not see this message again, simply set it to delete or otherwise refile messages with that subject heading. If you think there are questions which should be addressed on this list (especially if you can provide the answer!) please contact Thomas Dowling, tdowling@ohiolink.edu. From beanc at pbclibrary.org Tue Feb 15 08:28:44 2005 From: beanc at pbclibrary.org (Carol Bean) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? [heur] Message-ID: Geez, I'm wondering how everyone is getting 50 invitations! I DO use the ones I have for patrons (students taking a special email class). But we only get 4 to 6 invitations per email account! Google must've caught on to what I've been doing. : ) Carol Bean -----Original Message----- From: K.G. Schneider [mailto:kgs@bluehighways.com] Sent: Mon 2/14/2005 5:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Cc: Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? [heur] > Maybe if Stephen King or JK Rowling made their next book available only to > libraries... that would drum up business (LOL!) Maybe if instead of offering gmail accounts to one another we offered them to our patrons... "read about it on the library blog" "The library has a blog? Where?" Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca Tue Feb 15 09:31:49 2005 From: Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca (Darryl Friesen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Google In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200502151431.j1FEVn15021035@moondog.usask.ca> > Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library > OPACs and sites? I'd expect very few, if any. And I don't see that changing. > Recently, we've seen that many advancements in library site > functionality come from those outside the profession, like Jon > Udell's Library Lookup, and even Koha. The desire to improve > functionality for end users is there. Hundreds of developers have > created functionality for Amazon.com, imagine if we could make it > easier for them to do the same for us! If it were easy for the Library, the developer or the end user to improve functionality, then the vendor couldn't charge us an obscene amount of money for every minimally useful module they develop. Unlike Amazon, ILS vendors don't seem to want to empower their customers. It's amazing the hoops we've had to jump through to make our system functional in the way we want and need it to be. - Darryl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darryl Friesen, B.Sc., Programmer/Analyst Darryl.Friesen@usask.ca Education & Research Technology Services, http://gollum.usask.ca/ Information Technology Services Division, University of Saskatchewan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes" From collierb at marist.com Tue Feb 15 09:44:45 2005 From: collierb at marist.com (Mr. Brian Collier) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) Message-ID: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF3D@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Everyone, As a librarian, I can't simply let the statement that libraries "don't give people what they want, at all" go unchallenged. There is an on-topic argument at the end if you'd rather scroll straight down to that and read about how libraries should use Web services to fulfill their missions. I'm responding to two people in particular, so I want to be clear that there are two messages quoted here. On Mon, February 14, 2005 7:24 pm, Amos Lakos said: > Mr. Collier - I wonder? > how do you know that libraries are delivering what the customers want? > do you have some data or assessment to rely on? Well, call me old fashioned, but I ask my patrons. (I don't have customers.) How often does Google ask you how they're doing? They don't. They're not focused on service, they're focused on revenue. > and what is wrong with being popular or trendy - what is wrong with > Starbucks? Nothing wrong with popular, but "trendy" is something that bends to the whims of people's fancy. "Oh, look, keyword searches that return over 40,000 hits. Let's all do that!" Is wrong because more is not always better. I don't want my patrons saying, "Damn, I've scrolled through 33 pages of sites and still not found what I need." Trendy is not why libraries are here. We are not fashion, we are access to information. (And don't get me started on what's wrong with Starbucks.) > Why should library services not strive for online success such as > Google's? Who says we can't compete with this or that, just because we are not > private? That's like asking why Walmart doesn't strive to serve coffee like Starbucks. Walmart is a department store and Starbucks is already doing it. We are not Google and Google is already doing the online thing better than we can because that's Google's mission and it's all Google does. If we try to be Google, then we water down our purpose as libraries. There's nothing negative in suggesting that we do what we're here to do and do it better than anyone else. On Monday, February 14, 2005 9:10 PM, Ross Singer wrote >I have to agree with Amos, here (for the umpteenth time). >As even academic libraries struggle with irrelevance to their >core constituency... If you feel that libraries are irrelevant, then why bother? Why have a library at all? This is my point, we are not irrelevant to our core constituency. Google, Amazon, Yahoo!, etc, do not provide access to everything, nor do they provide the services that we do. We are necessary. >Even more important than "trendy" (because it would be like >"trendy with longevity")would be "ubiquity". If only we could >achieve the market share of a Starbucks (anyone?) or a Google, >there wouldn't be the need to slash monograph budgets to pay for >increasing serials bills. That's a totally different topic. >If libraries want to survive, it is going to have to be by at >least paying attention to free-market success stories. We must >have public interfaces that are as easy to use as Amazon or Google. >We must make it easier to get the material that the user wants over >Amazon's marketplace. As long as my local public library takes 5 >weeks /to deliver a book from another branch/, I will opt for buying >the damn thing used off of Amazon for $3.50. >I would love to say that this is just isolated to one inefficient library >system, but I see it again and again. I have no argument against improving efficiency and service to our patrons, but while you may have access to a PC and a cable modem, over half of the U.S. population does not. They can't go to Amazon and order that book. What do they do? They come to the library. If they have the $3.50 to spend, they can use the public P.C. to order it, and Hey! we've just provided a service they needed. If they don't have the $3.50, they will wait for the book and we will get it for them for free. >Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes >and Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? >Certainly there are a kickbacks, but not in every case. I disagree. People put those links up because they get money for doing it. If you want empirical evidence, look at those "what I'm reading" links from Xanga to Amazon? Yep, kickbacks. >"There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and >Noble, the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff >that libraries GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, >and computer access." This very quote negates itself because these >/very successful enterprises/ can /charge/ what for what we /give away/. No, it doesn't. It shows that people want books, periodicals, movies, etc, and we give it to them. The fact that someone else sells the same thing we provide for free does not negate the fact that people want what we offer. >We don't give many people what they want, at all, and we better >figure out something soon, because someday somebody who charges >for what we do (Questia, Elsevier, Google?) might take away those >remaining "customers", as well. >-Ross. And Amos tells me to be positive? I seriously hope you're just playing Devil's advocate (I get that impression from your response to Fiona's post) but if you really think that we don't give people what they want at all, I don't see how you can stand being a librarian. If you're in a strange town and go to the Starbucks for your over-roasted cup of coffee, that's cool, but I'm going to ask a local where the better coffee is. The better example would be, if you slice your finger off while fixing the lawn mower, are you going to surf over to Web M.D. while you bleed to death at the keyboard, or are you going to a surgeon? We are the surgeons of the information world. We provide access, we provide guidance, and we provide expertise. If we're doing our jobs, we give people more than what they want, we give them what they need. There is nothing wrong with stepping into the 21st century and utilizing the technology to make what we offer more easily accessible, but following the latest trend and slapping an RSS feed on the library page only further confuses the patron who does happen to try looking for information there. We have problems, I agree with you there, but being trendy is not one of them. I completely agree that ubiquity is where we're falling short. We simply aren't seen. If we promoted ourselves a fifth as much as Amazon or Google, then we'd have people queuing up around the block. How about it, Techies, let's come up with a way to ubiquitize awareness of libraries without spending billions on advertising. I also agree that inefficiency is a huge issue with libraries. So, how about this idea: instead of competing against Google, how about if we work with them? Let them digitize our holdings and then make those holdings keyword searchable with full text available online so people don't have to wait five weeks for a book...oh, wait, someone's doing that already! This is what we should strive for: utilizing technology to get relevant, reliable information into the minds of the people who want it as efficiently as possible. Brian Collier From jahb at lehigh.edu Tue Feb 15 10:22:36 2005 From: jahb at lehigh.edu (Jennifer Heise) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? In-Reply-To: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF22@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> References: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF22@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Message-ID: <421213BC.8020908@lehigh.edu> Mr. Brian Collier wrote: > This is veering off topic, but I have to disagree with Roy's evaluation > of A and B. > > There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and Noble, > the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff that libraries > GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, and computer > access. As far as ease of access, all people have to do is walk, run, > bike, or drive to their community library. Assuming they are available when their community library is open. One of the things I see killing public libraries is the fact that evening and weekend hours go first, but with the kind of schedules people keep, getting to the library before 7,8,or 9 pm on a weekday is increasingly difficult. B&N and Borders get a lot of customer loyalty because they are open late. The question is, can distributed web services be used to handle some of the day to day stuff that libraries now claim HAS to be done during the day, so evening and weekend hours are the ones that get cut? Can we use web services to support libraries that open at 1 pm and stay open until 10? Or could we set up reverse bookdrops, where patrons browse and order the books they want, then pick them up during late night/weekend hours? -- / Jennifer Heise, Helpdesk/Librarian, Email: jahb@lehigh.edu \ \ Lehigh Library & Technology Services, Phone: (610) 758-3072 / Fairchild-Martindale Library, 8A Packer Ave, Bethlehem PA 18015 "Comment is free, but facts are on expenses." -- Tom Stoppard From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Feb 15 11:00:42 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) In-Reply-To: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF3D@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Message-ID: <20050215160048.CD25457030B@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Interesting discussion. Several thoughts, and I apologize for the length: Kickbacks for links to Amazon: I don't know how much these "kickbacks" are, but I am probably in league with many other bloggers who keyed in the Web developer ID of the people who wrote the Amazon API so that in the rare event that anyone bought a book through their blog the nickel would go to them. This is not a lucrative enterprise, and making money from this model is not why any sane person provides links that way. We do it because it's available, it's free, and it works. If librarians think this is a money-maker, then as I suggested before, it would behoove libraries to create their own developer user IDs and suggest bloggers use these IDs in their Amazon links. Many churches do that, I've noticed. Yes, let's look at demographics, but as someone with public library management experience, I know we should project into the future, because wise managers know they are as good as next year's tax bond. Tomorrow's tax base (and increasingly this generation's tax base) lives in a Googlized, SMS, blogging, interactive, fingertip world. These people are not in your libraries right now. They are off being teenagers (who in large numbers do not use library services), and then they are off being college students (who as Geoffrey Nunberg reminded us this weekend sit in their dorm rooms Googling half-baked information even though librarians hundreds of feet away may be sitting at a desk wondering where the people are), and then they are off being twenty-somethings (who are also not in your libraries). If you do not begin adapting your services to these people, when they are taxpayers do not expect their support. For some time those of us on the technical side of things (and I consider myself systems middleware, not a coder but a manager) have been told all too often that technology is a caboose, often an unwanted caboose, on the "real" work of librarianship. We have been told that even as we have watched how people interact with the information world change more dramatically than any time since the advent of the printing press. We have been told that even as content moves to digital formats we are slow to deliver (so that by the time a format becomes popularized its users are elsewhere). We have been told that even when traditional library services have become near-relics because however good we are (and that goodness has always been up for examination), increasingly people do not think about library reference services when they have a question, let alone drive across town or even walk to the next building or pick up the phone or send an IM to ask a question. We have been told that even when we saw a trend truly developing, a trend, not a fad, and we who follow trends recommend we ride it like a wave instead of being next year's adopters. We can own a technology and build our user base through it, the way the rest of the world operates, or we can ignore it until the commercial forces have coopted more users and by the time we do adopt it people are asking where we have been with it. "My users won't understand it"--in the early 20th century, in the Social Work movement, librarians went out of their way to help immigrants learn the ways of the New World. That is what we do. That is who we are. Books are just one quiver in our bow. Besides, in many cases, by the time librarians get around to adopting some newfangled trend, their users already well understand it. Just because I do not game does not make it unimportant, and the same is true with RSS feeds. The growth in this one small technology is boggling. I tell you that the users for the digital library I manage understand it just fine, and are running toward it in droves, even though they are not a technical audience, just an information-friendly audience. We can always point to the exceptions and the stellar examples, the heartwarming personal anecdotes, the current data, but given the radical changes to the information landscape, if we decide that what we are "good at" is doing business the way we've always done it, we are going to be in the same pickle as the railroads (q.v. Andrew Abbott's discussion in "The System of Professions" of how railroads saw themselves in the rail business, not the transportation business). In watching some of the recent tax bond battles, I wonder if we aren't already there. It will take more to regain ground than simply being the technology centers of last resort. I know that is an important role, though in too many libraries I would hate to be that person waiting on line for an hour for my slurp at the digital trough. We have to regain our ground, to feel our way forward, even when we trip in the dark, even when we follow the wrong hallway. I have even heard librarians say libraries should be slow to adopt major new information technologies, which is not only poor strategy but inexcusable from a social justice point of view, as well as slightly self-indulgent (look how wise I am--I'm taking ten years to offer Internet access!). Charles McClure said in the 1990s that in addition to being a place of last resort, the library can be a place of first resort, a place people want to go. When it does that, the library, oddly enough, becomes more just in its service to the poor, because it is offering them services they would otherwise have no access to. That is real justice; that is an ethical approach to information services. Then, when a library spends money on information technology, it often pours most of its resources into what we quaintly call "library automation," which is basically providing a not-handily-searchable index to the print book catalog, and leaves but a few trimmings for anything that either makes "library automation" tastier and more nutritious or that goes beyond offering up a few machines for the public or that, God forbid, trains its librarians to be the savvy leaders of a new technology. I am not writing off books. Like many librarians, traditional or otherwise, I am a biblioholic. I use and love libraries on their own quirky terms--even the local library that scatters its biographies throughout the collection rather than pulling them together in a section because, I was told, they--note, they, not their users--prefer a "subject-based" approach (which means I get my biographies from Amazon or the local bookstore, where I can browse the genre)--even the library a little farther north where I once tried to work for an hour or two but could not because they block instant messaging, which we use at our job, even the urban library that has a web page that looks like a ransom note written out in inscrutable librarian jargon. But can anyone look at the information landscape today and seriously say that in fifty years libraries can and must look as they do now? If we decide that we are in the same business we have been since the early 20th century, then we are defining ourselves by the formats we deliver and the buildings we inhabit, and we will be the cobblers of the 21st century. I believe in a vision of librarianship broader and more permanent than that, a vision of librarianship that flexes forward to provide services and champion values for many generations to come. We must reach our users where they are, as Anne Lipow so often said, and to do that we must become librarians unbound. Off soapbox, for a day at least... and I'll end up blogging a version of this, I guess. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Feb 15 11:06:17 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: Google in discussions with Wikipedia? Message-ID: Interesting item by Gary Price at the SearchEngineWatch blog: http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050210-220108 Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Tue Feb 15 11:11:22 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: In-Reply-To: <200502151431.j1FEVn15021035@moondog.usask.ca> References: <200502151431.j1FEVn15021035@moondog.usask.ca> Message-ID: <42121F2A.6010906@library.gatech.edu> Darryl Friesen wrote: >>Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library >>OPACs and sites? >> >> > >I'd expect very few, if any. And I don't see that changing. > > Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib could all extended to provide much richer services, for someone with the vision (and, of course, Ex Libris products). -Ross. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From sdball at email.unc.edu Tue Feb 15 11:20:00 2005 From: sdball at email.unc.edu (Stephen Ball) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail In-Reply-To: <61391.68.219.220.51.1108433150.squirrel@68.219.220.51> References: <61391.68.219.220.51.1108433150.squirrel@68.219.220.51> Message-ID: <42122130.8080509@email.unc.edu> "Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? Certainly there are a kickbacks, but not in every case." Because the book stores provide a single, unique access point. If I could go to one site and link an ISBN to my local library, then I certainly would. The big problem with public libraries is that there are so many of them...and they all operate almost completely independently from each other. Sure it's not as bad as it once was, when every library had its own card catalog and data entry was repeated by every institution. But while that particular problem has been solved, libraries are still too seperate in most respects. It's the unification of the book store chains (indeed, store chains in general) that give them their marketing power. Starbucks has proven that even "trendy" can be condensed into a set of rules for nationwide distribution. Libraries need to learn how to replicate some of the keys that led to this success. Libraries amazingly linked card catalogs together into a (more) unified bibiographic database, they now need to unify everything else. Library loans should be trival and commonplace, services should be consistent and reliable, patron contact points should be the same for every library. McDonald's proved that you can get by with mediocre food and service as long as it is the same mediocre food and service everywhere. When people are able to think about their library and know that it will provide a certain set of definite services and resources with a consistent way to access those services, then they will be more comfortable using them. As it stands now, libraries are simply intimidating to the public at large or at least certainly not as welcoming as their local bookstore. - Stephen Ball Ross Singer wrote: > I have to agree with Amos, here (for the umpteenth time). As even > academic libraries struggle with irrelevance to their core > constituency, I would say it's important, dare I say even > critical, to figure out how to be "trendy". > > Even more important than "trendy" (because it would be like > "trendy with longevity") would be "ubiquity". If only we could > achieve the market share of a Starbucks (anyone?) or a Google, > there wouldn't be the need to slash monograph budgets to pay for > increasing serials bills. > > If libraries want to survive, it is going to have to be by at > least paying attention to free-market success stories. We must > have public interfaces that are as easy to use as Amazon or > Google. We must make it easier to get the material that the user > wants over Amazon's marketplace. As long as my local public > library takes 5 weeks /to deliver a book from another branch/, I > will opt for buying the damn thing used off of Amazon for $3.50. I > would love to say that this is just isolated to one inefficient > library system, but I see it again and again. > > Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and > Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? Certainly > there are a kickbacks, but not in every case. > > "There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and > Noble, > the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff that > libraries > GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, and computer > access." > > This very quote negates itself because these /very successful > enterprises/ can /charge/ what for what we /give away/. > > We don't give many people what they want, at all, and we better > figure out something soon, because someday somebody who charges > for what we do (Questia, Elsevier, Google?) might take away those > remaining "customers", as well. > > -Ross. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This email was composed using the GTEL Webmail client. > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > priviledged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this > information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient > is prohibited. > > Georgia Tech Library and Information Center > http://www.library.gatech.edu > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- Stephen Ball Reserves Processor R.B. House Undergraduate Library UNC-Chapel Hill From bollingers at cadl.org Tue Feb 15 11:30:21 2005 From: bollingers at cadl.org (Bollinger,Stephen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) Message-ID: While I agree with many of Brian's points, I disagree with this one strongly. We do not ask our patrons very much. We don't ask them very well. Most "patron" input comes from the often un-used Comment Card, chats at the desk, or Friends groups. This is not the same as asking the people whom we could, but currently don't, serve. Why don't they come in; can we offer them something; can we go to them? Unless your library is different from every one I've ever dealt with, we are not asking the hard questions and we are not asking the people who are hard to get to. That's the trick. And other than complaining about it, I don't have any brilliant answers. ;^) Yours, -Steve -----Original Message----- Well, call me old fashioned, but I ask my patrons. (I don't have customers.) How often does Google ask you how they're doing? They don't. They're not focused on service, they're focused on revenue. From murphyjm at kenyon.edu Tue Feb 15 11:41:00 2005 From: murphyjm at kenyon.edu (Joseph Murphy) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? In-Reply-To: <005401c5130b$15a6d430$e9b52443@nance> References: <005401c5130b$15a6d430$e9b52443@nance> Message-ID: >> ...When >> Google takes gmail out of beta and starts charging for it they'll make >> billions.... > > Does this mean that those who grab the free-gmail will enjoy no bills > when > They start charging? > Or...? I think worrying about Google charging end users for GMail is barking up the wrong tree. With two gigabytes of storage space and a rapidly expanding user base, what they've got is a data mining goldmine. (A gold data mine?) They're going to know more about their users than anybody else, including things like the relationship of mail keywords to advertisement click-through. Imagine the possibility for real-time ad sales based on trends in aggregate email keywords. "Hi, this is Google. We have 2 million new emails today using the name "Tom Brady." Shouldn't you be trying to sell these people a jersey?" Imagine what happens when they start basing ads off of your whole email history instead of just per message. Google could be looking at the recovery of viable advertising-based services on the web. (I also think that they'll discover a market for people who'll pay for 4 or more gigabytes... but that, like Yahoo and Hotmail, most people won't.) Meanwhile, libraries sit on huge amounts of data and rarely make any attempt to use it in the aggregate, out of concern for individualism (and privacy). Why don't we use search logs or circulation records to do some Reader's Advisory on the fly? Why are our catalogs so hard to personalize? And why are these supposedly "individual" decisions so often made by a small group of librarians for the whole user community? (I was stunned to find a little public library in West Virginia which allows individual users to turn "borrowing history" on or off as they like... I'd never heard of a library which trusted the end user to make that decision before.) I'm not saying we should necessarily "become Google." But I am saying that we don't always leverage all of our assets, and that should be a conscious choice, not an implicit one. Joe Murphy Librarian and Technology Consultant Library and Information Services Kenyon College murphyjm@kenyon.edu 740/427-5120 From coombsk at cortland.edu Tue Feb 15 11:39:38 2005 From: coombsk at cortland.edu (Karen Coombs) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Message-ID: <245F6CC3243C1A4882416354FD151EC80D68B8@sawteeth.cortland.edu> As someone with ExLibris products I would like to add that in order to provide to provide much richer services with these products you need vision and coding skills or at least access to people with coding skills. I've spent the better part of the last year working on projects with using ExLibris' APIs and getting these things to work takes a certain level of technical expertise. Not all library's have staff that possess these abilities which puts them at a certain disadvantages when trying to create more ubiquitous and integrated services. Karen A. Coombs Electronic Services Librarian SUNY Cortland coombsk@cortland.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Darryl Friesen wrote: >>Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library >>OPACs and sites? >> >> > >I'd expect very few, if any. And I don't see that changing. > > Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib could all extended to provide much richer services, for someone with the vision (and, of course, Ex Libris products). -Ross. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Tue Feb 15 11:46:58 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: The only wide spread access to libraries using an ISBN would have to be through FirstSearch. Many public libraries are not members of OCLC because it is so expensive for them. Do not knock the local library for not having the money to do what you suggest. Open World Cat will improve such things but only if and when it becomes affordable for all public and school libraries to have their records as part of the database. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Ball > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:23 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail > > "Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and > Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? > Certainly there > are a kickbacks, but not in every case." > > Because the book stores provide a single, unique access point. If I > could go to one site and link an ISBN to my local library, then I > certainly would. The big problem with public libraries is > that there are > so many of them...and they all operate almost completely > independently > from each other. Sure it's not as bad as it once was, when > every library From CAGimon at mplib.org Tue Feb 15 11:55:06 2005 From: CAGimon at mplib.org (Gimon, Charles A) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: Actually, you can link to Innovative catalog systems with an ISBN pretty easily, just as easily as you can to Amazon: http://mplwebcat.mplib.org/search/i?SEARCH=156584792X This is an example of the sort of Amazon-ish, Barnes-and-Nobleish service that many of us already have, we just need to get out the word more... --Charles Gimon Web Coordinator Minneapolis Public Library -----Original Message----- From: Drew, Bill [mailto:drewwe@MORRISVILLE.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:47 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail The only wide spread access to libraries using an ISBN would have to be through FirstSearch. Many public libraries are not members of OCLC because it is so expensive for them. Do not knock the local library for not having the money to do what you suggest. Open World Cat will improve such things but only if and when it becomes affordable for all public and school libraries to have their records as part of the database. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Ball > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:23 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail > > "Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and > Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? > Certainly there > are a kickbacks, but not in every case." > > Because the book stores provide a single, unique access point. If I > could go to one site and link an ISBN to my local library, then I > certainly would. The big problem with public libraries is > that there are > so many of them...and they all operate almost completely > independently > from each other. Sure it's not as bad as it once was, when > every library From MargaretHenderson at comcast.net Tue Feb 15 11:58:45 2005 From: MargaretHenderson at comcast.net (Margaret Henderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:01 2005 Subject: Job posting - Long Island NY In-Reply-To: <245F6CC3243C1A4882416354FD151EC80D68B8@sawteeth.cortland.edu> Message-ID: This is sort of a re-posting, but the position has changed. Library System and Digital Project Developer Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory offers an exciting opportunity to work in a state-of-the-art scientific library and archives to work and provide leadership in the creation and implementation of digital projects and programs on the history of the institution and molecular biology, assist with the development and maintenance of the library and the website. www.cshl.edu/CSHLlib Qualifications: A BS in computer science with 3 to 5 years of experience in computer hardware and software maintenance. Proficiency with Windows, Mac and Unix, knowledge of Dreamweaver, Flash, STML, HTML, SQL, Java script, Photoshop and database programs. Ability to establish goals and priorities; strong problem solving skills; team player with excellent communication skills. MLS or prior experience working in an academic medical or research library is a plus. Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory is a world-renowned research and educational institution located on the North Shore of Long Island in New York. Salary Commensurate with experience and excellent benefits package offered Please apply to jobline@cshl.edu Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Department of Human Resources 1 Bungtown Road Cold Spring Harbor, NY 11724 Margaret Henderson Librarian Midlothian, VA From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Tue Feb 15 11:58:31 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: In-Reply-To: <245F6CC3243C1A4882416354FD151EC80D68B8@sawteeth.cortland.edu> References: <245F6CC3243C1A4882416354FD151EC80D68B8@sawteeth.cortland.edu> Message-ID: <42122A37.20502@library.gatech.edu> I'm not trying to be belligerent here, but if this is the case, you might have the wrong priorities in regards to staffing. And that might be the core of "our problem". -Ross. Karen Coombs wrote: >As someone with ExLibris products I would like to add that in order to >provide to provide much richer services with these products you need >vision and coding skills or at least access to people with coding >skills. I've spent the better part of the last year working on projects >with using ExLibris' APIs and getting these things to work takes a >certain level of technical expertise. Not all library's have staff that >possess these abilities which puts them at a certain disadvantages when >trying to create more ubiquitous and integrated services. > >Karen A. Coombs >Electronic Services Librarian >SUNY Cortland >coombsk@cortland.edu > >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib@webjunction.org >[mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:16 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: > > >Darryl Friesen wrote: > > > >>>Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library >>>OPACs and sites? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I'd expect very few, if any. And I don't see that changing. >> >> >> >> >Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I >can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib could all >extended to provide much richer services, for someone with the vision >(and, of course, Ex Libris products). > >-Ross. > > > >********************************************************************* >Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this >multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a >plain text message. >********************************************************************* > > > > > > ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From brounk at mail.nih.gov Tue Feb 15 12:02:26 2005 From: brounk at mail.nih.gov (Broun, Kevin (NIH/NCI)) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) Message-ID: <4CCA53563257AC478E6F764AC6CD0816C0F6D2@nihexchange11.nih.gov> I find many of Brian's points compelling, but this one: >How often does Google ask you how they're doing? They don't. seems way off the mark. Do we think they just stumbled into their success simply through dumb luck or divine geeky inspiration? I seriously doubt it. Google has a substantial user experience operation focused on those questions of how users are doing with their products, or will do with new products being developed. Just the kind of stuff many new graduates of library schools (or their replacements like SIMS at Berkeley) seem to be specializing in... - Kevin Kevin Broun Senior Web Developer National Cancer Institute kbroun@nih.gov From larry.campbell at ubc.ca Tue Feb 15 12:14:24 2005 From: larry.campbell at ubc.ca (Larry Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42122DF0.4040508@ubc.ca> I'm wondering if anyone knows of libraries that link directly to Amazon (and/or B&N, Powell's, isbn.nu, other catalogs, etc.) from their own catalog, using an ISBN (sort of the reverse of Udell's LibraryLookUp bookmarklet)? A reason for doing so would be to take advantage of the increasingly rich supply of additional item information that such sites present -- e.g., reviews, "search inside" features, direct links to other works that cite this book, etc. (not to mention the possibility of additional revenue through referrals). Larry Campbell Librarian, Information Technology Services UBC Library Email: larry.campbell@ubc.ca Telephone: (604) 822-2076 Fiona Bradley wrote: >>>>"K.G. Schneider" 15/02/2005 4:03:38 pm >>> >> >>To start with, Amazon, among other things, has made it ridiculously > > easy for > >>sites to link to them. It took me only part of an evening and two > > free > >>Movable Type plugins (plus signing up for the free Amazon developer's > > id) to > >>add a feature to Free Range Librarian that enables me to search > > Amazon, tag > >>whether a book links to Amazon, whether it is read, unread, or in > > process, > >>etc., display a cute icon, etc. etc. > > > Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library > OPACs and sites? > > Recently, we've seen that many advancements in library site > functionality come from those outside the profession, like Jon Udell's > Library Lookup, and even Koha. The desire to improve functionality for > end users is there. Hundreds of developers have created functionality > for Amazon.com, imagine if we could make it easier for them to do the > same for us! > > cheers, > Fiona > > Librarian > SBS Radio Resource Centre > Locked Bag 028 > Crows Nest NSW 2065 > Australia > > Ph: (02) 9430 2862 > Email: fiona.bradley@sbs.com.au > > From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Tue Feb 15 12:17:18 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42122E9E.8030509@library.gatech.edu> Gimon, Charles A wrote: >Actually, you can link to Innovative catalog systems with an ISBN pretty >easily, just as easily as you can to Amazon: > In fact, there shouldn't be an ILS out there that can't link by ISBN. Or ISSN. But this is only a small part of the solution. This cries out even more for the need for web localization. See: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/dchud/resolvable/ for ways that libraries are trying to make the web work for them. However, the way I see this really working is to push for a web technology that is more attractive to lay services. If, say, localization allowed a user to find a Torrent of "Team America" from IMDB (from the Torrent sites they subscribe to), then there is no reason that it couldn't also be used to display that "To Kill a Mockingbird" (or, even "Team America" - who knows what a library's collection development dept. might purchase) is available in your local library. I guess my point is that we don't need wait around for our vendors and other technology producers to create something we can use (and react slowly to its introduction), we can actually go out and produce something that's useful to us and the rest of the web, on our own. There's no reason we can't invent "the next RSS". But then there's my previous post about "priorities". -Ross. From Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca Tue Feb 15 12:19:15 2005 From: Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca (Darryl Friesen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: In-Reply-To: <42121F2A.6010906@library.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <200502151719.j1FHJF15028642@moondog.usask.ca> > Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I > can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib > could all extended to provide much richer services, for someone > with the vision (and, of course, Ex Libris products). I guess I was thinking in terms of "catalogue" systems only when I made my original comment; I hadn't considered tools like SFX and Metalib. Our staff seems to like our ILS system well enough, but as a programmer trying to get data in and out, to manipulate the I _can_ get out, and trying to integrate it with other systems, I have a totally opposite opinion. We are an SFX site, and I must say I'm very impressed with it (and the staff at Ex Libris that I've dealt with). We've made use of the SFX APIs, and its eliminated virtually all the work I used to do with respect to ejournals. We don't have Metalib (yet) but from what I've seen of it and it's competitors, I am again impressed. - Darryl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darryl Friesen, B.Sc., Programmer/Analyst Darryl.Friesen@usask.ca Education & Research Technology Services, http://gollum.usask.ca/ Information Technology Services Division, University of Saskatchewan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes" From et at noblenet.org Tue Feb 15 12:41:55 2005 From: et at noblenet.org (Elizabeth Thomsen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42123463.5000202@noblenet.org> Gimon, Charles A wrote: > Actually, you can link to Innovative catalog systems with an ISBN pretty > easily, just as easily as you can to Amazon: > > http://mplwebcat.mplib.org/search/i?SEARCH=156584792X > > This is an example of the sort of Amazon-ish, Barnes-and-Nobleish service > that many of us already have, we just need to get out the word more... True, and we certainly should promote this to local groups, for schools to use for summer reading lists, etc. Many of us have also done a lot of work with bookmarklets, Firefox search plugins, etc. For example, the following page, which is obviously a little light on content at the moment(!), has a link that will install a Firefox search plug-in that's a keyword search of our library catalog: http://www.noblenet.org/firefox/ff_search_plugin.shtml If people use this, it at least puts us up on the dropdown search box in the browser, up there with Amazon, Googles, etc. But for the links from blogs and other webpages, it's only really local groups that are likely to link to our library catalogs. On my own personal projects, I link to Amazon, not for the kick-backs, but to provide users with more information, including the basic bibliographic information they can use to find and/or request the book from their local library. Plus, of course, all that added content, including reviews, related books and my new absolute favorite feature, the citations (this book cites 38 other books, this book is cited in 22 books, with links to see those citations in context-- amazing!) It's really hard to link to library resources! I have the same problem with articles. A couple of times I have posted citations to a relevant article to a literary, non-library e-mail list. I find myself writing lengthy explanations about which databases I know have this article, suggesting that people contact their local library to see if they have access to any of these database...it's complicated! -- Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange Danvers MA 01923 et@noblenet.org From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Feb 15 12:39:15 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? Message-ID: This discussion reminds me of something Stephen Abram said in an article in the February 1 issue of Library Journal. He concludes the article by saying "Sixty-five million years ago the Age of Reptiles came to a cataclysmic extinction known as The Great Dying. There is still controversy over what happened, but all theories agree that the dinosaurs died out because the environment changed and they couldn't adapt. Librarians are well positioned to thrive. But the future is not what it used to be. Our enterprise is no longer an extension of the past." The full article is available at: Abram, Stephen. The Google Opportunity. Library Journal, 130(2), 34-35. February 1, 2005. http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA498846 Bernie Sloan -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Brian Collier Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:42 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? This is veering off topic, but I have to disagree with Roy's evaluation of A and B. There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and Noble, the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff that libraries GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, and computer access. As far as ease of access, all people have to do is walk, run, bike, or drive to their community library. I suppose we could make it easier for some people to get that information if we streamed it digitally, but given the relatively low percentage of the population that has a computer and broadband connection, we'd be missing too many consumers. The crux of the question was how can we make library services "trendy", and that's the problem. I for one don't want my library to be trendy. (Starbucks anyone?) Maybe library services don't get the online popularity that Google enjoys, and while this list is all about Web library services, that's not our home turf. We (largely publicly funded entities) can't compete with Google (a private corporation) that way, nor should we. We are not an online mogul, we serve the public face-to-face in a distributed network. Take a gate count. How many people came into your library this week? Multiply that by the number of public libraries in your state, or better yet by the number of libraries in the U.S. or across the globe. To bring things somewhat back within the scope of this list; we can and should use online tools to provide another layer of service to the community, which is why we're getting these messages in our inboxes, but if we lose sight of the fact that we are not an online service, then we may as well shut the doors and let Google take over. Brian Collier -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? On Feb 14, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Margaret Henderson wrote: > How can we make library > services as trendy as Gogle mail? A) Provide something people really want, and B) make it easy to get. In general, we do so-so on A and suck at B. Next question? Roy From w-melody at northwestern.edu Tue Feb 15 12:51:47 2005 From: w-melody at northwestern.edu (William Melody) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) In-Reply-To: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF3D@EXCHG-BE.MaristScho ol.Local> References: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF3D@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20050215105234.038dade0@merle.it.northwestern.edu> >Well, call me old fashioned, but I ask my patrons. (I don't have >customers.) How often does Google ask you how they're doing? They don't. >They're not focused on service, they're focused on revenue. This is factually wrong. Google has many advanced systems in place to learn what customers want. Some comments on this from Marissa Mayer were plastered all over the web a month ago: http://alan.blog-city.com/read/1003011.htm They are far, far beyond libraries in usability because they are far, far beyond libraries in developing tools to understand what their users need in an online service. >Nothing wrong with popular, but "trendy" is something that bends to the >whims of people's fancy. "Oh, look, keyword searches that return over >40,000 hits. Let's all do that!" Is wrong because more is not always >better. I don't want my patrons saying, "Damn, I've scrolled through 33 >pages of sites and still not found what I need." Trendy is not why >libraries are here. We are not fashion, we are access to information. Well, with Google I can type in New York Times and get it as the first result, but not with most library catalogs. >We are not Google and Google is already doing the online thing >better than we can because that's Google's mission and it's all Google >does. If we try to be Google, then we water down our purpose as >libraries. I'll have to strongly disagree, and I think Ross Singer and the others involved with the WAG the Dog project are 100% on the right track. Integrating library services with other online services is vitally important. At 11:02 AM 2/15/2005, Karen A. Coombs wrote: >Not all library's have staff that >possess these abilities which puts them at a certain disadvantages when >trying to create more ubiquitous and integrated services. That may be so, but I've also seen and heard about a lot of wasted talent in the staff when they aren't in organizations with a culture of participation. That's actually probably the chief thing libraries need to focus on: developing a culture of participation, focused both on staff and patron participation, and technological innovation. It's actually pretty mind-blowing that the community as a whole hasn't adopted it as a priority. The future (heck, current) academic library is largely a web application from the POV of users. Without internal innovation, libraries will fail in their primary duties. Sunday's NYTimes article on info literacy prompted me to write a long post on this subject: http://bibliotheke.org/archives/2005/02/15/nytimes-on-lack-of-info-literacy-in-info-age/ William Melody Interlibrary Loan Northwestern University Library 1970 Campus Dr. Evanston, IL 60208-2323 T. 847.491.3382 w-melody@northwestern.edu www.bibliotheke.org ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From HUTCHINSONA at si.edu Tue Feb 15 13:01:02 2005 From: HUTCHINSONA at si.edu (Alvin Hutchinson) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: Lurkers, Listserv and RSS Message-ID: I have begun to wonder whether the listserv as a medium will change to be formatted as RSS/XML. One of the best things about RSS news feeds is that one no longer has to receive e-mail alerts from news services to keep abreast of a particular topic, etc. One of the primary complaints of my co-librarians is that they get too much e-mail. Part of it is the listservs that we ambitiously subscribe to but even when received in digest format, we often don't have time to read. I imagine that the listserv would begin to resemble a blog where the contributions are not e-mailed to a server but entered into a web form by users using some form of authentication. They would then be formatted into XML and readable by an RSS reader for lurkers like me. If this format was adopted it would permit subscribers to opt out of the e-mail messages and just check via their RSS feed reader. I know that some e-mail distribution lists (one-way listservs) have begun posting content as XML for RSS users. But could it be done for a multiple-user/contributor list? I know that recently many of you said that you prefer e-mail notification, etc. but I wonder if anyone else has thought that something like this is workable. Anyway . . . just a thought. I'll go back in the corner now. Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:36:45 -0600 From: "Sloan, Bernie" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Subject: Lurkers & Web4Lib Message-ID: . . . . This is just an FYI. Like Bill said, there's nothing wrong with being a lurker. And if the posting rate was higher, Web4Lib would probably collapse under the volume of message traffic. If even only one out of every ten subscribers posted on the average of one note a day, we'd all be getting over 300 e-mails a day from Web4Lib! Alvin Hutchinson Smithsonian Institution Libraries National Zoological Park Washington, DC 20008 hutchinsona@si.edu 202.673.4771 From w-melody at northwestern.edu Tue Feb 15 13:04:56 2005 From: w-melody at northwestern.edu (William Melody) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20050215120246.03ae4e80@merle.it.northwestern.edu> The first part of my last post is in response to Brian Collier's following statement >Well, call me old fashioned, but I ask my patrons. (I don't have >customers.) How often does Google ask you how they're doing? They don't. >They're not focused on service, they're focused on revenue. - William William Melody Interlibrary Loan Northwestern University Library 1970 Campus Dr. Evanston, IL 60208-2323 T. 847.491.3382 w-melody@northwestern.edu www.bibliotheke.org ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From kgs at bluehighways.com Tue Feb 15 13:07:30 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: FW: [DDN] Calling All Podcasters in Washington DC! Message-ID: <20050215180731.823D3570326@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Hey, any DC librarians podcasting (on-demand Web radio)? Be a star! Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com -----Original Message----- From: digitaldivide-bounces@milhouse.edc.org [mailto:digitaldivide-bounces@milhouse.edc.org] On Behalf Of Eric Gundersen Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:28 AM To: DIGITALDIVIDE@milhouse.edc.org Subject: [DDN] Calling All Podcasters in Washington DC! I am looking for any local podcasters in the Washington DC area. IJ Hudson of NBC4 (Channel 4 news on WRC-TV, Washington, DC affiliate of NBC News) would like to feature some local podcasters. Please email me or post a comment here (http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/?q=node/181) if you are in the greater Washington DC area with a plug for your programs and your URL so I can pass on your information to IJ. This is a really great chance for news about podcasting to filter down on the local level. Thank you! Cheers, Eric -- Eric Gundersen Development Seed Director of Program Development http://www.developmentseed.org http://www.developmentseed.org/blog ericgundersen(skype) Tel. & SMS +202.297.0671 Fax. 1.806.214.6218 _______________________________________________ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-request@mailman.edc.org with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. From bardsley at u.washington.edu Tue Feb 15 13:24:47 2005 From: bardsley at u.washington.edu (bardsley@u.washington.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) In-Reply-To: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF3D@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Feb 2005, Mr. Brian Collier wrote: >> Why should library services not strive for online success such as >> Google's? Who says we can't compete with this or that, just because we > are not >> private? > > That's like asking why Walmart doesn't strive to serve coffee like > Starbucks. Walmart is a department store and Starbucks is already doing > it. We are not Google and Google is already doing the online thing > better than we can because that's Google's mission and it's all Google > does. If we try to be Google, then we water down our purpose as > libraries. There's nothing negative in suggesting that we do what we're > here to do and do it better than anyone else. I don't feel this is a very close analogy. It can be said that Google provides access to information just as libraries do. Google does other things and so do libraries, but in at least the information provision arena they compete. - Mark Bardsley From csdurfee at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 13:36:30 2005 From: csdurfee at gmail.com (C.S. Durfee) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? Message-ID: <8c7b3a0605021510363f885296@mail.gmail.com> All due respect, but I don't remember the last time that Barnes and Noble, the NY Times, etc. asked the taxpayers to fund a $200 million bond measure. Saying that libraries do what they do for free is pretty spurious, especially when it's used as a cop-out to not deliver new and better services to our customers and to adapt to the changing information landscape. I think the library's home turf should be to give people information they want or need in the easiest possible manner. That includes having public internet machines in the libraries, that includes ILL, the reference desk, the bookmobile, community programs, online databases, and the OPAC. Patrons ask: Why is the OPAC harder to use and slower than google? Why can't I search inside of books from the catalog? Amazon and even Project Gutenberg can do that. Why doesn't your catalog know where I'm located either from my IP address or my user preferences and give me results for libraries near me, complete with a map of how to get to the library? For that matter, why do I have to drive down to the library to pick something up? Why can't I just pay for shipping and have the book mailed? Why can't I get notified when a book I have out is about to become overdue, or a book on some subject I'm interested comes in? I'm a programmer. What on earth is a "MARC Record", and why can't I get your data in XML format via a web service? If I go to Amazon and I want to look for mystery movies on DVD, I can go: DVD > Browse Genre > Mystery and Suspense. I'm greeted with a list of sub-genres (film noir, thrillers, etc.), most popular and newest items, the ability to get emails when new mysteries come in, a link for an RSS feed of new items, and so on. Compare that to what I have to go through to get the same info from my OPAC. I do a subject browse on "mysteries", and I get a list of "mysteries and miracle-plays", "mysteries of the rosary", etc. Hunh? So I have to call a librarian (unfortunately my library doesn't do anything convenient like IM), they tell me, oh, you want to search on "detective and mystery films", not "mysteries", idiot, don't you have a copy of the AACR at hand? Okay, so I do a search on that. Then, I have to do a limit on DVD's and a sort to see the most recent items first, which takes a minute or two, because the OPAC is slow. Still no way of being notified when new stuff comes in, no way of knowing what the hottest titles are, no kind of heirarchical structure so I can easily get to just the film noir or suspense titles or back to all DVD's from there, no way of knowing what other readers thought of the item. What I'm trying to get at is that you may think these are silly questions, or outside of the scope of the library's mission, but a lot of library patrons -- the people who pay our salaries -- don't. Our home turf isn't to give people free email addresses or places to share photos or shop for toasters, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty that we can't learn from Yahoo!/Amazon/Google/del.icio.us/et. al. >>> "Mr. Brian Collier" 02/14/05 03:38PM >>> This is veering off topic, but I have to disagree with Roy's evaluation of A and B. There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and Noble, the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff that libraries GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, and computer access. As far as ease of access, all people have to do is walk, run, bike, or drive to their community library. From CAGimon at mplib.org Tue Feb 15 14:23:39 2005 From: CAGimon at mplib.org (Gimon, Charles A) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: > it's only really local groups that are likely to link to our library catalogs. Those are exactly the people we'd love to get more involved! --Charles Gimon Web Coordinator Minneapolis Public Library From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue Feb 15 14:47:01 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: Critiquing Google (from a library perspective) Message-ID: Samuel Trosow of the University of Western Ontario made the following comment on the liblicense list, regarding the library community's reaction to various Google initiatives: "For the most part, Google is seen as some sort of savior, and most of the reaction from the library community has been uncritical." I'm interested in hearing critical comments about Google and its initiatives, from the perspective of how these initiatives have the potential to impact libraries and library services. Feel free to contribute your own comments, or to point me to the comments of others. I'll begin by alerting you to Roy Tennant's column in the new (February 15) issue of Library Journal: Tennant, Roy. Google Out of Print. Library Journal, 130(3). February 15, 2005. http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA502014 Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From rcarlson at ala.org Tue Feb 15 15:04:13 2005 From: rcarlson at ala.org (Rob Carlson) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: LITA Preconferences at ALA Annual Conference in Chicago Message-ID: (apoligies for duplication) Please help us spread the word by forwarding this message to appropriate lists. Thanks! LITA will host three preconferences to the ALA Annual Conference in Chicago this summer. All three will be held on Friday, June 24, 2005. They are: Implementing and Integrating ShibbolethFriday, June 24, 8:00 am - 05:00 pm Shibboleth, a project of Internet2/MACE, is developing architectures, policy structures, practical technologies, and an open source implementation to support inter-institutional sharing of web resources subject to access controls, and to allow inter-operation within the higher education community. This preconference will provide guidance for implementation and integration of Shibboleth into information resource management infrastructures. E-resource providers Dynix, Ex Libris, JSTOR/ArtStor, OCLC, and ProQuest will also explain how their services integrate with Shibboleth. Speakers: Keith Hazelton, Internet2/U of Wisconsin-Madison; Peter Murray, OhioLink; Mike Neuman, Georgetown University; Chris Zagar, Useful Utilities/EZProxy; Deborah Ludwig, University of Kansas Introduction to Web ServicesFriday, June 24, 1:00 pm - 5:00 pm Introduction to Web Services: Making Applications Play Well Together? Do you think web services means providing access through the Internet? It could, but web services is also a set of technical standards that provides a framework for interoperability. Software application developers, including those in the library space, use web services to define how applications can communicate with each other. In many meetings vendors are talking about implementing a new function or application using web services. Find out what this means and how it might impact the choices available to your library in the future. This program will introduce participants to the standards behind web services, how they have been used by libraries and their vendors, and look at how a specific library has used web services to integrate disparate systems.Speakers: Sara Randall, Endeavor Information Systems; Diane Vizine-Geotz, OCLC; Eric Lease Morgan, University of Notre Dame; Andrew Pace, North Carolina State University; Carl Grant, VTLS; Jermey Frumkin, Oregon State University Developing a Culture of Assessment in Library Information Technology ServicesFriday, June 24, 8:00 am - 12:30 pm Just as libraries must demonstrate the impact of their services and outcomes on their parent institution or community, information technology services within the library must be able to do the same. A critical component in making this happen is to adopt a model of continuous services assessment that uses user-centered decision making in order to gather relevant requirements data and information. In 2002 the Information Technology Division of the Northwestern University Library began adopting a continuous assessment model for decision-making and service provisioning. Learn what the forces were that caused us to adopt a culture of assessment, what a culture of assessment is, how our goals and work changed, and how this has led to the adoption of a new method of thinking and supporting services within the Library, and what you can do to get started with this methodology.Speaker: H. Frank Cervone, Northwestern University Registration fees for Web Services and Culture of Assessment (half-day) are: LITA/ALA Members, $150.00; ALA Members, $210.00; Non-members, $260.00; Student/Retired Members, $150.00 Registration fees for Shibboleth (full-day) are: LITA/ALA Members, $195.00; ALA Members, $255.00; Non-members, $305.00; Student/Retired Members, $195.00 Online registration is available at http://www.ala.org/ala/eventsandconferencesb/annual/2005a/registration.htm You do not need to register for Annual Conference to register for these workshops. Rob Carlson LITA Deputy Executive Director ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From sgarwood at infolink.org Tue Feb 15 15:05:21 2005 From: sgarwood at infolink.org (Steve Garwood) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: Search Engine Code - Come and Get it Message-ID: <007d01c51399$b1fc6780$8e00a8c0@steve> For a project that INFOLINK, the Library Cooperative that I work with, is doing to help promote the creation and use of "Librarian Pages" to make our fellow librarians better, stronger and faster searchers and to give them quicker access to online resources they use frequently...we've (my intern and myself) created a page with code that people can simply copy/paste to add various Search Engine search boxes to their websites. As I thought this might be something that you all might be interested in I just wanted to share the URL: http://www.infolink.org/engine/ A couple examples of the "Librarian Pages" that we've "completed" so far: (Note: These will eventually move to the school servers) http://www.infolink.org/newarkschools/ http://www.infolink.org/southplainfieldhs/ and, the one we use at INFOLINK: http://www.infolink.org/steve.htm Lastly, a general Template that we're working with: http://www.infolink.org/quicktemplate Enjoy, Steve ************************************************************************ * Steve Garwood Program and Services Coordinator, INFOLINK Tel: 732-752-7720 Fax: 732-752-7785 Toll free: 866-505-LINK Fax: 800-793-8007 Email to: sgarwood@infolink.org Web: http://www.infolink.org Personal Web: http://www.stevegarwood.com CD&L: #2301 "I don't care what they say about me as long as they spell my name right" P.T. Barnum (attributed) ************************************************************************ * ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From andres at exlibris-usa.com Tue Feb 15 15:48:31 2005 From: andres at exlibris-usa.com (Andres Monroy-Hernandez) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Message-ID: <2E22100107E0304CA05E870FB3A26CF769506D@usmail01> Hi, I'm a Developer for SFX, and I just wanted to mention in relation to this topic that we have added SOAP support to the new SFX Ver. 3. Originally this was implemented just to allow different SFX servers to communicate with each other in a consortium environment, but it can be used by anyone to communicate with SFX in a standard way. I guess some people might be interested in using it in their own applications. Regards, -- Andres Monroy-Hernandez -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Darryl Friesen Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: > Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I > can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib > could all extended to provide much richer services, for someone > with the vision (and, of course, Ex Libris products). I guess I was thinking in terms of "catalogue" systems only when I made my original comment; I hadn't considered tools like SFX and Metalib. Our staff seems to like our ILS system well enough, but as a programmer trying to get data in and out, to manipulate the I _can_ get out, and trying to integrate it with other systems, I have a totally opposite opinion. We are an SFX site, and I must say I'm very impressed with it (and the staff at Ex Libris that I've dealt with). We've made use of the SFX APIs, and its eliminated virtually all the work I used to do with respect to ejournals. We don't have Metalib (yet) but from what I've seen of it and it's competitors, I am again impressed. - Darryl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Darryl Friesen, B.Sc., Programmer/Analyst Darryl.Friesen@usask.ca Education & Research Technology Services, http://gollum.usask.ca/ Information Technology Services Division, University of Saskatchewan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes" -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ex Libris (USA), and is believed to be virus free. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ex Libris (USA), and is believed to be virus free. From gerrymck at iastate.edu Tue Feb 15 15:52:23 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: Future Tense(r): Libraries Get Hip to RSS Message-ID: Colleagues/ A *Great* Overiew of RSS/Web Feeds and Implications/Implementations for/by Libraries [ http://www.publicradio.org/columns/futuretense/2005/01/21.shtml ] Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Hip Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu "Web Feeds: It's a Good Thing" BTW: Don't Forget To Also Visit: RSS(sm): Rich Site Services [http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/RSS.htm ] RSS(sm) General Bibliography [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/GenBib.htm ] eFeeds(sm) [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/eFeeds.htm ] B-Feeds [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/B-Feeds.htm ] OR Read Rich Site Services: Web Feeds for Extended Information and Library Services [ http://www.llrx.com/features/richsite.htm ] ********************************************************************************* January 21, 2005 Libraries get hip to RSS RSS, short for Really Simple Syndication, is an increasingly popular way to view Web sites -- without having to go to the actual sites. Using software called an RSS "reader" or "aggregator," users subscribe to "feeds" of content. For example, by subscribing to the Future Tense RSS feed, you automatically receive the content of the Future Tense Web site whenever it's updated, inside your RSS reader. Many major news sites have added RSS. Now, libraries are discovering that RSS might be a good way of providing new services and reaching out to patrons. Next month, the Seattle Public Library will offer feeds that will help patrons stay on top of their accounts, and track favorite authors or subjects from the library catalog. And library technology vendor Sirsi has announced new RSS features. [ http://www.publicradio.org/columns/futuretense/2005/01/21.shtml ] From collierb at marist.com Tue Feb 15 15:49:10 2005 From: collierb at marist.com (Mr. Brian Collier) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) Message-ID: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF55@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Well, I'm going to respond one last time and then stop beating this particular horse. If anyone else wants to contribute, that's fine. I am glad we've stirred up this conversation though. It says a lot about the different perspectives that librarians have as to our mission, and I hate to admit it, but it seems that even librarians have succumbed to the "libraries are dead" claims. I can't imagine why anyone would want to work in a library with such a negative view on librarianship. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we sit on our past and shake our canes at the whippersnappers, we do have to adapt, but we are not irrelevant, and we are not dead. C.S. Durfee wrote: >What I'm trying to get at is that you may think these are silly questions, or outside of >the scope of the library's mission, but a lot >of library patrons -- the people who pay our salaries -- don't. Our >home turf isn't to give people free email addresses or places to share photos or shop >for toasters, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty that we can't learn from >Yahoo!/Amazon/Google/del.icio.us/et. al. Those are all great questions, and you re-stated my point. We are here as a public service, not as a corporate entity. We can't search inside our books because we don't have the money to make it happen. We can't do what Google does because we are not Google. No point trying to be. We can learn from Google, we can work with Google, but we will not be Google. By the way, I have to take issue with your description of Amazon's catalog interface, it's great if you're just looking for the latest Grisham novel, or you're content to get the store's list of popular recommendations in mystery DVDs. However, when it comes to those esoteric searches that our patrons have the most trouble with, Amazon hits the same limitations we do when it comes to subject headings and keyword searches: people use different words to mean the same things. The trouble is, Amazon has no straightforward way for the average user to finesse their catalog. (You can fiddle with hacks and such if you know about them, but most home users aren't going to stray beyond the search box on the front page.) On Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:54 PM, William Melody wrote: >This is factually wrong. Google has many advanced systems in place to learn what >customers want. Some comments on this from Marissa Mayer were plastered all over the >web a month ago: http://alan.blog-city.com/read/1003011.htm >They are far, far beyond libraries in usability because they are far, far beyond >libraries in developing tools to understand what their users need in an online service. I still stand behind my statement. (And this is answers Kevin's similar comment.) Google may have many advanced systems for data analysis in place, but when was the last time someone from Google actually asked you how they are doing? I do this on a regular basis. Comment cards? No thanks. I ask my patrons. If a librarian can't do that, then he or she needs to find another job. My point is, Google is a business and its primary concern is revenue. Libraries are not a business and our primary concern should be service. Besides, Google has the resources and the freedom to pursue that sort of data mining, libraries typically can't afford it and, if we are guarding the privacy or our patrons as we should, we have to give a lot of consideration before we open up that box. Before anyone comes tearing back with a response about how we're not using technology to it's fullest potential to track and mine our data etc. etc. I agree. We could learn from Google's use of data tracking, but we need to be careful about it. (I'm not proposing waiting 10 years, but using some judgment is prudent.) >Well, with Google I can type in New York Times and get it as the first result, but not >with most library catalogs. I don't see how that's relevant. I can walk into most libraries and pick up a copy of the NYT from a week ago and read the article for free. I can also go into a ProQuest database and search articles going back to the first issue of the NYT. If I hit that link from Google, I can get today's articles for free and that's it. We each have our strengths. Apples and oranges. >>We are not Google and Google is already doing the online thing better >>than we can because that's Google's mission and it's all Google does. >>If we try to be Google, then we water down our purpose as libraries. >I'll have to strongly disagree, and I think Ross Singer and the others involved with the >WAG the Dog project are 100% on the right track. Integrating library services with >other online services is vitally important. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I've have no problem with integrating online services, if you read the rest of my post, you'll notice that I am all for integration. I applaud Ross on his WAG the Dog project. It's innovative and integrates current technology in a way that helps libraries do what they are meant to do, but it is not competing with Google in any way, shape or form. >>At 11:02 AM 2/15/2005, Karen A. Coombs wrote: >>Not all library's have staff that >>possess these abilities which puts them at a certain disadvantages when >>trying to create more ubiquitous and integrated services. >That may be so, but I've also seen and heard about a lot of wasted talent in the staff >when they aren't in organizations with a culture of participation. >That's actually probably the chief thing libraries need to focus on: >developing a culture of participation, focused both on staff and patron participation, >and technological innovation. It's actually pretty mind-blowing that the community as a >whole hasn't adopted it as a priority. The future (heck, current) academic library is >largely a web application from the POV of users. Without internal innovation, libraries >will fail in their primary duties. I just can't agree with the statement that we're a Web app, even metaphorically, but I do agree that internal and external participation, and technological innovation are necessary for the survival of libraries. Do we have to adapt? YES! Do we have to latch onto every new trend just because it's popular among the 13-24 year-old crowd? Not necessarily. Just because something is hot, new, and technological does not mean it's going to last, even if it is a "better" technology (anyone remember Betamax? Laserdisc?), and just because it's popular doesn't mean it's going to help us. Should we be aware of new technology and examine we can put it to use? YES! Should we compete with Google or Amazon or other commercial ventures? No. Should we look at what makes them successful and emulate their strategies, even partner with them to provide access to information? If it furthers our mission as librarians, yes. Brian Collier From eric at openly.com Tue Feb 15 18:39:00 2005 From: eric at openly.com (Eric Hellman) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services In-Reply-To: <2E22100107E0304CA05E870FB3A26CF769506D@usmail01> References: <2E22100107E0304CA05E870FB3A26CF769506D@usmail01> Message-ID: 1Cate has always had a REST interface. JAKE had an OpenURL based web services interface 5 years ago. Perhaps I should explain. The basic difference between SOAP and REST is pretty simple: SOAP client ----XML-----> service ------XML------> client REST client ----URL-----> service -----XML------> client Library software has always suffered, I think, from being ahead of its time. In the case of web services, Z39.50 was one of the first widely deployed standards-based web services. So now we have libraries standardized around a type of web-service that was invented before the existence of technologies that that enable the current generation of web-services implementations, and Z web services are irrelevant outside the library world. it's important to remember that both SOAP and REST are layers on XML, whereas Z39.50 is a complete application (when you include profiles). Just because two pieces of software support SOAP or REST doesn't mean they can be used together. Someone still has to develop the application. So if you're in a position to write an RFP, try to specify that your vender provide well documented APIs that you can provide to other developers without NDA. Any developer will tell you that the documentation of a web-services API is more important than a particular web-service flavor. Eric >Hi, > >I'm a Developer for SFX, and I just wanted to mention in relation to >this topic that we have added SOAP support to the new SFX Ver. 3. >Originally this was implemented just to allow different SFX servers to >communicate with each other in a consortium environment, but it can be >used by anyone to communicate with SFX in a standard way. I guess some >people might be interested in using it in their own applications. > >Regards, > >-- >Andres Monroy-Hernandez -- Eric Hellman, President Openly Informatics, Inc. eric@openly.com 2 Broad St., 2nd Floor tel 1-973-509-7800 fax 1-734-468-6216 Bloomfield, NJ 07003 http://www.openly.com/1cate/ 1 Click Access To Everything From cchick.1210043 at bloglines.com Tue Feb 15 19:14:29 2005 From: cchick.1210043 at bloglines.com (cchick.1210043@bloglines.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Lurkers, Listserv and RSS Message-ID: <1108512869.964517767.20418.sendItem@bloglines.com> Since Bloglines offers an email subscription feature, I'm able to do this now, and I love it. I create disposable email addresses for each listserv, set it up in Bloglines, and read my listserv email along with my RSS feeds. I'm able to follow many more listservs now than I could before. Here's a more complete discussion of the advantages of receiving listservs this way. http://www.lawlibtech.com/archives/000131.html The only real downside is that it can be hard for me to spot personal responses to my email postings. I think all listservs should be available as RSS feeds, so everyone can enjoy the benefits! Cindy Chick --- HUTCHINSONA@si.edu wrote: I have begun to wonder whether the listserv as a medium will change to be > formatted as RSS/XML. One of the best things about RSS news feeds is that > one no longer has to receive e-mail alerts from news services to keep > abreast of a particular topic, etc. One of the primary complaints of my > co-librarians is that they get too much e-mail. Part of it is the listservs > that we ambitiously subscribe to but even when received in digest format, we > often don't have time to read. > > I imagine that the listserv would begin to resemble a blog where the > contributions are not e-mailed to a server but entered into a web form by > users using some form of authentication. They would then be formatted into > XML and readable by an RSS reader for lurkers like me. If this format was > adopted it would permit subscribers to opt out of the e-mail messages and > just check via their RSS feed reader. I know that some e-mail distribution > lists (one-way listservs) have begun posting content as XML for RSS users. > But could it be done for a multiple-user/contributor list? > > I know that recently many of you said that you prefer e-mail notification, > etc. but I wonder if anyone else has thought that something like this is > workable. > Anyway . . . just a thought. I'll go back in the corner now. > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:36:45 -0600 > From: "Sloan, Bernie" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Subject: Lurkers & Web4Lib > Message-ID: > > > . . . This is just an FYI. Like Bill said, there's nothing wrong with > being a > lurker. And if the posting rate was higher, Web4Lib would probably > collapse under the volume of message traffic. If even only one out of > every ten subscribers posted on the average of one note a day, we'd all > be getting over 300 e-mails a day from Web4Lib! > > > Alvin Hutchinson > Smithsonian Institution Libraries > National Zoological Park > Washington, DC 20008 > hutchinsona@si.edu > 202.673.4771 > > From w-melody at northwestern.edu Tue Feb 15 19:25:06 2005 From: w-melody at northwestern.edu (William Melody) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: library marketing (long, but with an on-topic point) In-Reply-To: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF55@EXCHG-BE.MaristScho ol.Local> References: <426593C622610E4EAA87D7DCAAAAF1A631FF55@EXCHG-BE.MaristSchool.Local> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20050215152404.03cf2238@merle.it.northwestern.edu> Hopefully this won't chop off the top of my post again. At 03:03 PM 2/15/2005, Brian Collier wrote: > I can walk into most libraries and pick >up a copy of the NYT from a week ago and read the article for free. I >can also go into a ProQuest database and search articles going back to >the first issue of the NYT. > If I hit that link from Google, I can get >today's articles for free and that's it. That's an issue that online news services have to figure out. What happens if they follow the public's advice and shift to an open archive model? It's a future being publicly debated so we should probably be prepared for it. Of course, if libraries can get web localization working nicely, we can look forward to the day when I can go straight from google to the library holding in one click. My point is that we can't just expect the current apples and oranges to stay apples and oranges. It's a model that's broken on both sides, since online tools like LexisNexis are by no means easy to use in comparison to web search. As such, our job is to make our tools better, integrate the online experience as much as possible and find our worth in quality of service and ease of use. Depending solely on our exclusive access to a body of information, in this case news archives, would just be making the same mistake all over again. Our resources are necessary and are far, far, far more extensive than what's available online, but it's useless if patrons find other services they feel fit their needs and believe the myth that libraries are no longer very necessary, a belief that will only increase as more info gets connected. >I just can't agree with the statement that we're a Web app, even >metaphorically, but I do agree that internal and external participation, >and technological innovation are necessary for the survival of >libraries. Our statistics and interactions with patrons show that they are moving en masse to online services and the feedback we get, at least in my department, indicates they expect our services to behave like other applications they use. But libraries still have a significant physical role which, like this topic, is currently being debated to death. WRT academic libraries, I like how Carlton College's Sam Demas put it (as noted by Kathlin Smith in CLIR Issues): "[Demas] uses the ancient Library of Alexandria as a frame of reference for the modern library. Decrying the specialized focus of many academic libraries, he turns to the ideal of the Mouseion?a 'temple of the muses'?that was, 'in name and in fact, a research center, a museum, and a venue for celebrating the arts, inquiry, and scholarship.' Libraries such as this provide not only information resources but special collections, art exhibits, and performances; they also support scholarship and encourage engagement with it." Add to that the library as a computing hub and you have yourself a better library than existed before. So the library as a web app is just one part of the mix, but perhaps the most important part. It's a major function that libraries have to consciously acknowledge. This means adopting tools and methods that work, like making user-generated data an integral part of the services we provide. That is actually the reason why we need to view it as a web app. Wired's Chris Anderson is absolutely correct by pointing out in his Long Tail discussions that a web applications' success depends on how it benefits from user participation. Asking what features patrons want isn't enough. What makes Google and Amazon so great isn't primarily the loads of cash, it's the ways in which they make data generated by the users central to the services they provide. The web is interaction. People use and like Google's ranking because it is an artifact of mass behavior. There's nothing preventing the library community from developing their own applications other than the inability to recognize this as a priority. >Should we look at what makes them successful >and emulate their strategies, even partner with them to provide access >to information? If it furthers our mission as librarians, yes. Sounds great to me! In fact, I suspect there isn't really much disagreement between our statements here. William Melody Interlibrary Loan Northwestern University Library 1970 Campus Dr. Evanston, IL 60208-2323 T. 847.491.3382 w-melody@northwestern.edu www.bibliotheke.org From wilsona at oclc.org Tue Feb 15 21:06:44 2005 From: wilsona at oclc.org (Wilson,Alane) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFE51@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Wading into the deep end of the pool here...I am bemused by the notion that being aware of, and perhaps catering to, peoples' interests is defined as "trendy" (and I assume trendiness has some pejorative aspect to it in this case?). Pet rocks were trendy: not very useful socially. Lance Armstrong yellow bracelets are trendy: pretty useful socially. Google is trendy: highly useful socially. Why do I think Google is useful? Because millions of people use Google every single day to accomplish things they couldn't or didn't do before--and they are happy with their results. (And this is likely another whole thread, but I am not sure how publically funded institutions can afford to ignore "what the people want"). So, how about we give this contest up? In the webby world, the non-library search engines have whupped us. How about we do what many have suggested in the past 2 days and focus on developing web services that can be overlaid on other services to make searching/finding easier and more integrated with other web experiences? There's lots of clever people out there...why wait for the ILS vendors? I, personally, will be happy to pass the torch of my profession on to the next generation. Our inability to really grasp user preferences (among many other challenges) is an age thing. I gave a presentation at the University of Victoria several months ago and at least 5 of the attendees were under-30 librarians. They came to me, as a group, after the presentation and thanked me, saying: wow, we had no idea all that stuff (gaming, web habits, instant messaging etc etc) was a problem for you! My advice? Involve your younger staff in any planning activities--*especially* the web interfaces and services. Another anecdote...at another presentation, a librarian took umbrage at the idea that people were happy using Google and its bretheren, and said, don't people understand? Learning to use the library is like going to the dentist...it's something you just have to do. Yep, there's the kind of vital, community service we want to be...like a visit to the dentist. Finally, if you haven't, go look at Google's 10 point philosophy. Would that the library community could so succintly articulate its philosophy (have we done so since Ranganathan?). By the by, here's OCLC's mission statement and below is Google's. OCLC exists to further access to the world's information and reduce library costs by offering services for libraries and their users. Google's mission is to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful. Alane Wilson, MLIS Senior Library Market Consultant Marketing and Library Services OCLC 800-848-5878 x4386 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Ross Singer Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Gimon, Charles A wrote: >Actually, you can link to Innovative catalog systems with an ISBN >pretty easily, just as easily as you can to Amazon: > In fact, there shouldn't be an ILS out there that can't link by ISBN. Or ISSN. But this is only a small part of the solution. This cries out even more for the need for web localization. See: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/dchud/resolvable/ for ways that libraries are trying to make the web work for them. However, the way I see this really working is to push for a web technology that is more attractive to lay services. If, say, localization allowed a user to find a Torrent of "Team America" from IMDB (from the Torrent sites they subscribe to), then there is no reason that it couldn't also be used to display that "To Kill a Mockingbird" (or, even "Team America" - who knows what a library's collection development dept. might purchase) is available in your local library. I guess my point is that we don't need wait around for our vendors and other technology producers to create something we can use (and react slowly to its introduction), we can actually go out and produce something that's useful to us and the rest of the web, on our own. There's no reason we can't invent "the next RSS". But then there's my previous post about "priorities". -Ross. From Stephen.DeGabrielle at nt.gov.au Tue Feb 15 21:52:13 2005 From: Stephen.DeGabrielle at nt.gov.au (Stephen.DeGabrielle@nt.gov.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Message-ID: >> Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs Why don't we have a common API for all ILS? - and demand these of our ILS vendors. (Libraries have always led the way in standards.) I assume this list is as good a place as any to start the process. What do list members think would be appropriate services for such and API? I've never written a standard before - does anyone have any idea how to go about it? (Those ATOM people seemed to have had some success) here goes - starting with simple ones; 1) Control Number Lookup (ISBN/ISSN etc.) to support services like 'Library Lookup' by John Udell 2) New Books see http://www.cdu.edu.au/library/rss.html / http://www.librarystuff.net/2005/01/more-library-rss-feeds.html 3) Items Out > An example of what the itemsout feed address should look like is http://phoenix.ntu.edu.au/rss/itemsout.jsp?barcode=123456&pin=mypassword 4) Search(es) ( a few common ones) 5) Request Item ... [I'm sure others on this list can think of more] * All of course with HTML or XML(RSS if appropriate) output options to allow human and machine operation. (X)HTML - I'd like the 'Items-Out' feed from Charles Darwin University to generate HTML so I could just have it as a bookmark in my browser (Which would be quicker when checking from my mobile phone - and easier for my mum who doesn't use a RSS reader and is not interested) XML(or RSS) - I'd like to be able to use services like LibraryElf [http://www.libraryelf.com/] at my library. s. ---------- Stephen De Gabrielle 8922 0887 I'm sick of the Internet - I want a yabby net. Ross Singer Sent by: web4lib@webjunction.org 16/02/2005 01:45 AM Please respond to ross.singer To: Multiple recipients of list cc: Subject: [WEB4LIB] re: web services (was: Re: library marketing was RE: Darryl Friesen wrote: >>Speaking of Amazon APIs, what Web Services are out there for library >>OPACs and sites? >> >> > >I'd expect very few, if any. And I don't see that changing. > > Actually, this isn't true. Both ExLibris and Sirsi have APIs (that I can think of off the top of my head). SFX, Aleph and Metalib could all extended to provide much richer services, for someone with the vision (and, of course, Ex Libris products). -Ross. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From Stephen.DeGabrielle at nt.gov.au Tue Feb 15 22:32:09 2005 From: Stephen.DeGabrielle at nt.gov.au (Stephen.DeGabrielle@nt.gov.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: international my-library bookmarklet service WAS library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: An 'international my-library bookmarklet service' How hard could this be? The browser already identifies the country of origin Get the user to enter a zip/postal region code/locality National libraries could have a 'resolver' that took the location and forwards it on to the appropriate library. This could be done internationally - all from the one bookmarklet/embeddable bit of html ala Amazon. I'm sorry - this doesn't seem that hard. It would be cheap to build and inexpensive to run. Why weren't we doing this 5 years ago? s. ---------- Stephen De Gabrielle 8922 0887 I'm sick of the Internet - I want a yabby net. ---- >> >Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and >> >Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? >> >> Most websites tend to have a larger audience than those situated >> geographically close to the local library, so it makes sense to link to >> sites that are perceived to be global like Amazon. Though certainly it >> would be nice if people started linking to National Library holdings, >> that would be a start. And libraries could have a great opportunity to >> To start with, Amazon, among other things, has made it ridiculously easy for >> sites to link to them. It took me only part of an evening and two free [...] >> allow the reader to put in a zip code or something that simple. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From suekamm at mindspring.com Tue Feb 15 23:50:45 2005 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail In-Reply-To: <42122130.8080509@email.unc.edu> References: <42122130.8080509@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: <4212D125.5040908@mindspring.com> Stephen Ball wrote: > "Why is it that sites with ISBNs have links to Amazon or Barnes and > Noble and Powell's, but never to your public library? Certainly > there are a kickbacks, but not in every case." > > Because the book stores provide a single, unique access point. If I > could go to one site and link an ISBN to my local library, then I > certainly would. The big problem with public libraries is that there > are so many of them...and they all operate almost completely > independently from each other. Sure it's not as bad as it once was, > when every library had its own card catalog and data entry was > repeated by every institution. But while that particular problem has > been solved, libraries are still too seperate in most respects. It's > the unification of the book store chains (indeed, store chains in > general) that give them their marketing power. Starbucks has proven > that even "trendy" can be condensed into a set of rules for > nationwide distribution. And, of course, links to book vendors (whether they be Amazon, BN, Borders, or another) enable the seeker to BUY the book. I think it's possible to search for library materials using ISBN, but that search wouldn't necessarily provide the seeker with the answer to the question. For one thing, libraries may have different editions of the same book, which would have separate ISBNs. In a library, searching by author, title, subject, or keyword would generate more results than searching by ISBN. We use ISBNs to search our cataloging databases, but a cataloger must still check the record(s) against the work in hand. -- Your friendly CyberGoddess and ALA Councilor-at-Large, Sue Kamm Los Angeles/Inglewood, CA Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers, 2000 email: suekamm@mindspring.com Visit my homepage: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." --John Emeich Edward Dalberg-Acton, Lord Acton Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Wed Feb 16 00:49:16 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: JOB: Director of Library Technical Services (non-traditional - online bibliographic information database) Message-ID: <62810d148a793e96fb488b95ef196a5f@ucop.edu> Forwarded on behalf of jvkloeppel@cberger.com, please do not reply to me. Roy Begin forwarded message: > From: "Julianna Kloeppel" > Date: February 15, 2005 10:08:48 AM PST > > Director of Library Technical Services > > C. Berger Group, Inc. is representing a global book and support > service supplier in the Northeastern US who seeks a Director of > Library Technical Services. > > Position Description and Responsibilities: Designs, implements, and > manages internal technical services systems to provide acquisitions, > cataloging, and book processing services to customers. Monitors cost, > income, and profitability of the department. Establishes bibliographic > control and data management in support of internal technical service > systems. Works directly with customers and suppliers to design, > select, and implement appropriate support for their technical service > needs. Monitors and adjusts current technical service offerings to > meet clients needs. Initiates and/or participates in the design of new > technical services products and services. Develops and maintains > technical service documentation. Trains customer service, > bibliographers, and sales personnel. Manages Book Processing, Account > Processing, and Cataloging departments. Is primary contact with OCLC. > Actively participates in national library associations and other > groups influencing technical services development. > > Qualifications: MLS or equivalent experience with technical services > in an academic library environment; > > At least 5 years of increasingly responsible experience supervising > professional staff; Experience in pricing and cost structure analysis; > Solid understanding of library technical services; Superior technical > understanding and analysis skills; Excellent writing and verbal > skills; Ability to work independently with considerable detail; > Project management experience; Experience in a production-oriented, > for-profit environment; Ability to travel occasionally. > > Compensation: The salary begins at lower $70's, plus excellent > benefits package. > > Qualified candidates should submit resume via e-mail or fax to Carol > A. Berger, Manager, Marketing Communications, C. Berger Group, Inc., > 327 E. Gundersen Dr., Carol Stream, IL 60188, cberger@cberger.com , > Fax: 630.653.1691 www.cberger.com > > ? From sukj at hawaii.edu Wed Feb 16 01:10:43 2005 From: sukj at hawaii.edu (Suk Hee Jang) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:02 2005 Subject: web4lib mail digest Message-ID: Pls send mail as digest form!!! Sukhee Jang From et at noblenet.org Wed Feb 16 08:38:40 2005 From: et at noblenet.org (Elizabeth Thomsen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail (fwd) Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:53:02 -0800 (PST) Sue Kamm wrote: > I think it's possible to search for library materials using ISBN, but > that search wouldn't necessarily provide the seeker with the answer to > the question. For one thing, libraries may have different editions of > the same book, which would have separate ISBNs. In a library, searching > by author, title, subject, or keyword would generate more results than > searching by ISBN. That's why I'm so interested in OCLC's xISBN project: http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/xisbn/technical.htm which can accept an ISBN as input, and return a list of related ISBNs as output. It's a start... This is another area where the onine booksellers have it all over library catalogs. With Amazon, however you get to an individual edition of a book, by ISBN or whatever, you always see link to other editions right there as links, clearly labelled "Hardcover," "Paperback," "Audio CD," etc. -- Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange Danvers MA 01923 et@noblenet.org From athena at mail.ucf.edu Wed Feb 16 09:05:20 2005 From: athena at mail.ucf.edu (Athena Hoeppner) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail Message-ID: I've long wondered why library systems don't add a little behind the scenes intelligence to searching. When a user enters an ISBN search the system should be able to: 1. Find the exact match for the ISBN if one exist. 2. Check some authority on ISBNs to find out the title for the item 3. Search by the title and display the results, if any, with some explanation about the searches done. 4. If no results are found, suggest other options - search for similar items, search nearby libraries, request via ILL, Amazon (or other purchase options), chat online with a librarian. As they are, our systems (both OPACs and database interfaces) are a sink-or-swim environment for the users. Athena Athena Hoeppner Electronic Resources Librarian athena@mail.ucf.edu (407)823-5049 >>> Sue Kamm 15/Feb/05 11:56 >>> I think it's possible to search for library materials using ISBN, but that search wouldn't necessarily provide the seeker with the answer to the question. For one thing, libraries may have different editions of the same book, which would have separate ISBNs. In a library, searching by author, title, subject, or keyword would generate more results than searching by ISBN. From monica.hammes at ais.up.ac.za Wed Feb 16 09:10:49 2005 From: monica.hammes at ais.up.ac.za (Monica Hammes) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1108563049.421354699f2f4@mx1.up.ac.za> I want to link one of the headings of the Abram article, "Making the library discoverable", to the ubiquity issue that has been mentioned throughout the discussion. One of the things that have struck me about Amazon ever since they started is the way they manage to position themsevles on the web in such a way that I quite often walk through their virtual doors when I definitely did not have that intention in the first place: a kind of "have you considered Amazon as the solution to your current information need?" Is it technically feasible to create such an invitation to appear whenever someone uses a search engine from the university domain? At least this could act as a catchment area for customers who have already made up their minds that Google is their first choice. Monica Hammes Quoting "Sloan, Bernie" : > This discussion reminds me of something Stephen Abram said in an > article > in the February 1 issue of Library Journal. He concludes the article > by > saying "Sixty-five million years ago the Age of Reptiles came to a > cataclysmic extinction known as The Great Dying. There is still > controversy over what happened, but all theories agree that the > dinosaurs died out because the environment changed and they couldn't > adapt. Librarians are well positioned to thrive. But the future is not > what it used to be. Our enterprise is no longer an extension of the > past." > > The full article is available at: > > Abram, Stephen. The Google Opportunity. Library Journal, 130(2), > 34-35. > February 1, 2005. > http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA498846 > > Bernie Sloan > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Brian Collier > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:42 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail > invitations? Any takers? > > This is veering off topic, but I have to disagree with Roy's > evaluation > of A and B. > > There's no question that we provide what people want. Barnes and > Noble, > the NY Times, Netflix, and ISPs charge for the same stuff that > libraries > GIVE AWAY in the form of books, movies, periodicals, and computer > access. As far as ease of access, all people have to do is walk, run, > bike, or drive to their community library. I suppose we could make it > easier for some people to get that information if we streamed it > digitally, but given the relatively low percentage of the population > that has a computer and broadband connection, we'd be missing too many > consumers. > > The crux of the question was how can we make library services > "trendy", > and that's the problem. I for one don't want my library to be trendy. > (Starbucks anyone?) > > Maybe library services don't get the online popularity that Google > enjoys, and while this list is all about Web library services, that's > not our home turf. We (largely publicly funded entities) can't compete > with Google (a private corporation) that way, nor should we. We are > not > an online mogul, we serve the public face-to-face in a distributed > network. Take a gate count. How many people came into your library > this > week? Multiply that by the number of public libraries in your state, > or > better yet by the number of libraries in the U.S. or across the globe. > > To bring things somewhat back within the scope of this list; we can > and > should use online tools to provide another layer of service to the > community, which is why we're getting these messages in our inboxes, > but > if we lose sight of the fact that we are not an online service, then > we > may as well shut the doors and let Google take over. > > Brian Collier > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:31 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail > invitations? Any takers? > > On Feb 14, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Margaret Henderson wrote: > > > How can we make library > > services as trendy as Gogle mail? > > A) Provide something people really want, and B) make it easy to get. > > In general, we do so-so on A and suck at B. Next question? > Roy > > > > > > > Monica Hammes E-Scholarship Coordinator Academic Information Service University of Pretoria Pretoria South Africa Tel +27-12-4202845 ******************************************************************************* This message and attachments are subject to a disclaimer. Please refer to www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ for full details. Hierdie boodskap en aanhangsels is aan \'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig. Volledige besonderhede is by www.it.up.ac.za/documentation/governance/disclaimer/ beskikbaar. Pretoria South Africa Tel +27-12-4202845 From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Wed Feb 16 10:05:21 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: The CNet Anchordesk is claiming that the Firefox revolution is over aborning, due to the announcement that Internet Explorer 7 will be released independent of Windows as early as this summer (in beta). See for the opinion piece and for the story. Roy From rcarlson at ala.org Wed Feb 16 10:24:35 2005 From: rcarlson at ala.org (Rob Carlson) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: LITA Preconferences at ALA Annual Conference in Chicago Message-ID: (Apoligies on top of apologies. Corrected text below.) Please help us spread the word by forwarding this message to appropriate lists. Thanks! LITA will host three preconferences to the ALA Annual Conference in Chicago this summer. All three will be held on Friday, June 24, 2005. They are: Implementing and Integrating Shibboleth Friday, June 24, 8:00 am - 05:00 pm Shibboleth, a project of Internet2/MACE, is developing architectures, policy structures, practical technologies, and an open source implementation to support inter-institutional sharing of web resources subject to access controls, and to allow inter-operation within the higher education community. This preconference will provide guidance for implementation and integration of Shibboleth into information resource management infrastructures. E-resource providers Dynix, Ex Libris, JSTOR/ArtStor, OCLC, and ProQuest will also explain how their services integrate with Shibboleth. Speakers: Keith Hazelton, Internet2/U of Wisconsin-Madison; Peter Murray, OhioLink; Mike Neuman, Georgetown University; Chris Zagar, Useful Utilities/EZProxy; Deborah Ludwig, University of Kansas Introduction to Web Services Friday, June 24, 1:00 pm - 5:00 pm Introduction to Web Services: Making Applications Play Well Together? Do you think web services means providing access through the Internet? It could, but web services is also a set of technical standards that provides a framework for interoperability. Software application developers, including those in the library space, use web services to define how applications can communicate with each other. In many meetings vendors are talking about implementing a new function or application using web services. Find out what this means and how it might impact the choices available to your library in the future. This program will introduce participants to the standards behind web services, how they have been used by libraries and their vendors, and look at how a specific library has used web services to integrate disparate systems. Speakers: Sara Randall, Endeavor Information Systems; Diane Vizine-Geotz, OCLC; Eric Lease Morgan, University of Notre Dame; Andrew Pace, North Carolina State University; Carl Grant, VTLS; Jermey Frumkin, Oregon State University Developing a Culture of Assessment in Library Information Technology Services Friday, June 24, 8:00 am - 12:30 pm Just as libraries must demonstrate the impact of their services and outcomes on their parent institution or community, information technology services within the library must be able to do the same. A critical component in making this happen is to adopt a model of continuous services assessment that uses user-centered decision making in order to gather relevant requirements data and information. In 2002 the Information Technology Division of the Northwestern University Library began adopting a continuous assessment model for decision-making and service provisioning. Learn what the forces were that caused us to adopt a culture of assessment, what a culture of assessment is, how our goals and work changed, and how this has led to the adoption of a new method of thinking and supporting services within the Library, and what you can do to get started with this methodology. Speaker: H. Frank Cervone, Northwestern University Registration fees for Web Services and Culture of Assessment (half-day) are: LITA/ALA Members, $150.00; ALA Members, $210.00; Non-members, $260.00; Student/Retired Members, $150.00 Registration fees for Shibboleth (full-day) are: LITA/ALA Members, $195.00; ALA Members, $255.00; Non-members, $305.00; Student/Retired Members, $195.00 Online registration is available at http://www.ala.org/ala/eventsandconferencesb/annual/2005a/registration.htm You do not need to register for Annual Conference to register for these workshops. Rob Carlson LITA Deputy Executive Director From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed Feb 16 10:21:05 2005 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: Web browsers in the news In-Reply-To: <1108563049.421354699f2f4@mx1.up.ac.za> References: <1108563049.421354699f2f4@mx1.up.ac.za> Message-ID: <49280.198.111.163.210.1108567265.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Microsoft finally responds to its eroding browser market-share with an announcement that IE 7 will be released in a stand-alone version. Currently, it's only being promised to XP SP2 users. Reversal: Next IE update divorced from Windows http://news.com.com/Reversal+Next+IE+update+divorced+from+Windows/2100-1032_3-5577263.html Meanwhile, Yahoo has released a beta version of its popular Toolbar for Firefox: http://toolbar.yahoo.com/firefox Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Wed Feb 16 10:26:48 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42136638.605@library.gatech.edu> Wow, that editorial has a "And I, for one, welcome our new Redmond-based overlords" tone about it. There are a lot of assumptions here (i.e. the rush to market won't bring a buggy product; IE7 will be compatible with all of these IE-only sites; IE7 will deliver anywhere near on time), but I'm not sure MS can put this genie back in the bottle. I'll admit, I have no idea what will happen to Firefox (although Google's seeming financial backing of it makes me think it'll do fine), but I think there is enough skepticism and doubt surrounding all things MS at this point (by those that make decisions) that I'm not sure MS will ever gain back their past market share. There's a fundamental difference right now versus when IE took over the market. Netscape had just sat around with version 4 for too long, however the Firefoxes, the Mozillas, the Safaris /aren't sitting still/. If that makes for a better IE, then everybody wins. -Ross. Roy Tennant wrote: >The CNet Anchordesk is claiming that the Firefox revolution is over >aborning, due to the announcement that Internet Explorer 7 will be >released independent of Windows as early as this summer (in beta). See > for the opinion piece >and for the story. >Roy > > > > > From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed Feb 16 10:36:55 2005 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Web browsers in the news In-Reply-To: <49280.198.111.163.210.1108567265.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> References: <49280.198.111.163.210.1108567265.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Message-ID: <52374.198.111.163.210.1108568215.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Oops! I apologize for duplicating Roy's post here. I was getting my library lists crossed up this morning. But hopefully, some found the Yahoo! Toolbar announcement useful. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI > Microsoft finally responds to its eroding browser market-share with an > announcement that IE 7 will be released in a stand-alone version. > Currently, it's only being promised to XP SP2 users. > > Reversal: Next IE update divorced from Windows > http://news.com.com/Reversal+Next+IE+update+divorced+from+Windows/2100-1032_3-5577263.html > > Meanwhile, Yahoo has released a beta version of its popular Toolbar for > Firefox: > http://toolbar.yahoo.com/firefox > > Andrew Mutch > Library Systems Technician > Waterford Township Public Library > Waterford, MI > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 16 10:41:16 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4213699C.5030106@ohiolink.edu> Roy Tennant wrote: > The CNet Anchordesk is claiming that the Firefox revolution is over > aborning, due to the announcement that Internet Explorer 7 will be > released independent of Windows as early as this summer (in beta). See > for the opinion piece > and for the story. > Roy > > IE 7 will end the perception that IE is a gaping security hole, and will kill off any hetergeneous browser environment. After all, XP SP2 ended the perception that Windows is a gaping security hole and killed off any heterogeneous server and workstation environment, right? Fact is, IE rapidly became a much better browser during the period Microsoft was actively dealing with a threat from Netscape. Unless we can foresee a future in which Firefox pushes IE totally off the map, it's good (for the majority of users) for Microsoft to respond to Firefox as a threat. A very large number of Windows users will end up using a better browser. And those who care will still have access to an even better browser. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Feb 16 10:44:48 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > The CNet Anchordesk is claiming that the Firefox revolution is over > aborning, due to the announcement that Internet Explorer 7 will be > released independent of Windows as early as this summer (in beta). See > for the opinion piece > and for the story. > Roy First, the opinion piece surprised me, and seemed really opinion--not at all evidence-driven. Also opinion: I use Firefox alongside IE and I have had too many times when IE went into a catatonic state, and none with Firefox. I don't think Firefox loads slowly, in my experience. More broadly: are these experiences reported by users? Note: I have never been a browser cultic in any direction. I just have to use two browsers for my job, and increasingly I prefer to use Firefox for tasks because, well, it works. I have also heard people praise Firefox for its toolbars and particularly for its integrated RSS reader. As for tabbing, I never used it until she mentioned it. Nice feature! ;) (Still not sure I'll use it, though.) IE7 could be the best thing since sliced bread. It could also be WordPerfect 6, the version that pretty much killed off that product as far as I was concerned (and how I loved WP before that--this is going back, but I remember the day it left Wordstar and Enable in the dust). How this columnist could tout a product she hasn't seen is beyond me. The cynic in me wonders what's in her stock portfolio. Finally, the real story here was the separation of browser from OS, not IE versus Firefox. I haven't had experiences where Firefox has trouble rendering bad code, but I'd like to hear this group respond to that comment because I wonder if that isn't driven by MS itself. Though I agree with the premise that a browser should make every attempt to render a page. A browser is not a validator, it's a tool for browsing the Web (Opera, you hear me?). I'm more concerned that Firefox development might founder for other reasons. If it doesn't keep growing, it will die. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Wed Feb 16 10:47:22 2005 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBF1C@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> The funny thing is, even if IE 7 is shipped as a stand alone, we still stuck with the integrated one. I don't know if I actually want two IE browsers on my Win box. ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > > IE 7 will end the perception that IE is a gaping security hole, and will > kill off any hetergeneous browser environment. After all, XP SP2 ended > the perception that Windows is a gaping security hole and killed off any > heterogeneous server and workstation environment, right? > > Fact is, IE rapidly became a much better browser during the period > Microsoft was actively dealing with a threat from Netscape. Unless we > can foresee a future in which Firefox pushes IE totally off the map, > it's good (for the majority of users) for Microsoft to respond to > Firefox as a threat. A very large number of Windows users will end up > using a better browser. And those who care will still have access to an > even better browser. > > > -- > Thomas Dowling > tdowling@ohiolink.edu > > > > From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed Feb 16 10:52:56 2005 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> References: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <55037.198.111.163.210.1108569176.squirrel@mail.tln.lib.mi.us> Karen said: "Finally, the real story here was the separation of browser from OS, not IE versus Firefox." I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think for a minute that IE will be unhooked from the OS. As those of us who deal with securing Windows know, IE is hooked into the OS in all kinds of ways. Separating IE from the OS would require an update that not only updates the browser itself but the underlying architecture of the OS. I don't see that happening absent a full-blown Service Pack or a new OS. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI From LScritch at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us Wed Feb 16 11:17:18 2005 From: LScritch at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us (Scritchfield, Larry) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: <52D1E8A877040744B1AA562F4AD9192B085B9452@mail.co.washoe.nv.us> Andrew said: > >>Karen said: >> >>"Finally, the real story here was the separation of browser from OS, not >>IE versus Firefox." > >I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think for a minute that IE will be >unhooked from the OS. If it does come to pass, Firefox will have accomplished what the Justice Department could not. Larry Scritchfield lscritch@mail.co.washoe.nv.us Internet Services Librarian (775) 327-8349 Washoe County Library System www.washoe.lib.nv.us From bishopk at rpi.edu Wed Feb 16 11:29:00 2005 From: bishopk at rpi.edu (Kevin W Bishop) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <9942C9BCA59F8A4595718D57983A74ED0BE820@vcc-ex1.win.rpi.edu> -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Firefox revolution over? First, the opinion piece surprised me, and seemed really opinion--not at all evidence-driven. [snip] I haven't had experiences where Firefox has trouble rendering bad code, but I'd like to hear this group respond to that comment because I wonder if that isn't driven by MS itself. Though I agree with the premise that a browser should make every attempt to render a page. A browser is not a validator, it's a tool for browsing the Web (Opera, you hear me?). --------------------------- More opinion, less analysis, fewer facts. ("What's in your wallet?") If Firefox freezes when opening a PDF it is not necessarily an issue with the browser but, more likely, the plug-in. In my experience, Acrobat has plenty of its own problems. Admittedly, I am an opinionated builder of websites, but if a browser doesn't render or "work" for a site because the site is built with non-standard code, how is that the browser's fault? Firefox generally renders poorly built sites well enough for me to accomplish my objectives. Plus, it IS possible to check for updates within Firefox. In my version, clicking on a puzzle-piece icon next to the browser icon (in the upper right-hand) will check for and install updates for the browser itself as well as any extensions I have installed (Web Developer, MapIt!, Tabbrowser Preferences, ColorZilla, Copy Plain Text, Define Word, Copy URL+, FirefoxView, Sage, ... ). While that feature may not be available in the op-author's install of Firefox it should highlight the fact that Firefox is eminently extensible and customizable to suit different browsing needs and habits. IE was never so much fun. Hrm. -kb ___________________________ Kevin W. Bishop > bishopk@rpi.edu Communication & Collaboration Technologies Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute > http://www.rpi.edu/ RPInfo: http://www.rpi.edu/rpinfo/ From walterg at yorku.ca Wed Feb 16 11:37:39 2005 From: walterg at yorku.ca (Walter Giesbrecht) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> References: <20050216154449.ACD8857034F@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <421376D3.2040303@yorku.ca> K.G. Schneider wrote: > > I haven't had experiences where Firefox has trouble rendering > bad code, but I'd like to hear this group respond to that > comment because I wonder if that isn't driven by MS itself. The experiences I've had have been with bad (or simply weird) Javascript that caused the page to continuously reload, making the page useless. > Though I agree with the premise that a browser should make > every attempt to render a page. A browser is not a validator, > it's a tool for browsing the Web (Opera, you hear me?). "Making every attempt" is fine, but *mandating* a browser to *properly* divine the intentions of the author and render the page the way the author meant it to be (as opposed to the way it was written) makes a mockery of the whole notion of Web standards. I have no problem with a browser telling me, in effect "I'm sorry, but I simply cannot tell what the author had in mind when he/she/it wrote this page. You'll have to contact them to find out what you were supposed to see." -- Walter Giesbrecht walterg@yorku.ca Data Librarian 203E Scott Library York University, Toronto, CANADA 416.736-2100 ext.77551 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From abullen at ameritech.net Wed Feb 16 12:14:40 2005 From: abullen at ameritech.net (Andrew Bullen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Win2K server problems Message-ID: <20050216171440.16515.qmail@web80311.mail.yahoo.com> Dear all, 1. If you have recently installed MS Security update KB840987, and you are having trouble using RDC/Terminal services client, UNINSTALL it and reboot. Problem solved. 2. I am having trouble with an IIS (I think) problem. Some PDF files do not display in IE (http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/pdf/BB/1900/file8.pdf, as an example); they do, however, show up in Netscape 7.2. Short of re-saving each of the many thousands of PDF files on this server, does anybody have any ideas? Andy Bullen Illinois State Library From mtruitt at uh.edu Wed Feb 16 12:33:39 2005 From: mtruitt at uh.edu (Marc Truitt) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421383F3.8010206@uh.edu> for a somewhat less sanguine IT-centric view of MS' IE7.0 announcement, you may want to browse over to yesterday's eWeek article, 'IE 7.0 Leaves Windows 2000 Users Out in the Cold'... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1765331,00.asp?kc=ewnws021605dtx1k0000599 for the present, it appears as though MS intends to support XP/SP2 only. cheers, - mt -- ************************************************************************* Marc Truitt Assistant Dean for Systems Voice : 713-743-8979 University of Houston Libraries e-mail : mtruitt@uh.edu 114 University Libraries fax : 713-743-9811 Houston, TX 77204-2000 [note new number!] -> cell : 713-201-0351 "Well I left my happy home to see what I could find out I left my folk and friends with the aim to clear my mind out Well I hit the rowdy road and many kinds I met there Many stories told me of the way to get there ..." -- Cat Stevens ************************************************************************* Roy Tennant wrote: > The CNet Anchordesk is claiming that the Firefox revolution is over > aborning, due to the announcement that Internet Explorer 7 will be > released independent of Windows as early as this summer (in beta). See > for the opinion piece > and for the story. > Roy > > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 16 12:35:13 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42138451.1040307@ohiolink.edu> "Firefox is...a chore sometimes, what with most sites using that pesky nonstandard IE code. Not everything renders properly, and some sites just plain don't work." [What's the definition of rendering "properly", btw? Mystically knowing exactly how it looked on the designer's desktop? Even an all-IE environment won't get you there.] I must be going to the wrong sites. What is this pesky nonstandard "IE" code that's causing Firefox to fail everywhere? I see a lot of bad markup but little in page designs that are specific to IE. I honestly cannot name a site I've visited that fails just because I'm using Firefox. I do see some scripts that essentially say: if (your browser is IE) then you get a script that would actually work in any modern browser otherwise you receive a "Get a better browser" message and are told to take a hike Other than giving users a way to lie and say they're really using IE after all (which both Opera and Firefox have), what's a non-IE browser supposed to do? I increasingly think that the "[Non-IE browser of choice] won't render everything right" is a tool used jointly by lazy web designers who don't want to defend their IE-only designs and lazy systems people who don't want to defend their IE-only platform support. You can't control too many designers, except by using their competitor's sites, but you can take your systems folks aside and tell them this attitude won't cut it. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 16 13:01:53 2005 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: I wasn't going to comment in this discussion, but my experience has been almost the same as Thomas D's. I use Firefox at work for all but one site--namely Onyx, which is carefully designed so that it won't work with anything but IE. If I had broadband at home, I'd use Firefox for all but one site--namely the iNotes client, which won't work with anything but IE. (Because I'm on dialup and usually only on the internet from home about 10-15 minutes, unless I'm doing FTP work, it's not worth it to fire up two browsers.) Other than those two sites, I have yet to encounter "problems" with Firefox--which, on my computers, loads faster than IE and does a slightly better job of printing printer-hostile web pages. And I don't even use tabs (much). Opera, on the other hand...well, never mind. (The last version I tried couldn't handle Unicode properly, among other things.) I'm not anxious to rush back into Mother Microsoft's embrace--and it's worth noting that I *like* MS Word better than any competitor I've used. I also like competition. -walt crawford, RLG but only my own experience/opinion- From BreakallS at chesterfield.gov Wed Feb 16 13:04:19 2005 From: BreakallS at chesterfield.gov (Breakall, Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: <5D000B78613C1C48989C7A5923B71ABA02E49603@franklin.chesterfield.gov> Thomas, Mostly I think problems in viewing some websites using Firefox have to do with Firefox's lack of support for ActiveX. ~Scott~ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? ... I must be going to the wrong sites. What is this pesky nonstandard "IE" code that's causing Firefox to fail everywhere? I see a lot of bad markup but little in page designs that are specific to IE. I honestly cannot name a site I've visited that fails just because I'm using Firefox. From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Feb 16 13:18:04 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: Try using Microsoft Outlook Webmail in any browser but IE. That is one example. In fact, it is the only time I use IE any more except to check on webpage changes. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From gerrymck at iastate.edu Wed Feb 16 13:24:21 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Update of _Online Research Tools_ White Paper (Marcus Zillman) Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to announce the availability of a updated version of Online Research Tools by my WebColleague Marcus P. Zillman [ http://zillman.blogspot.com/2004/09/online-research-tools.html ] This WhitePaper is a comprehensive listing of online research tools that offer various downloadable as well as web applications to allow you to do your research and searching on the Internet far more effective and productive. It is a freely available 18 page .pdf document (458KB) that can be downloaded from the above URL along with other white papers and resources on information retrieval, information extraction and deep web research by Marcus P. Zillman, M.S., A.M.H.A. It was updated *02-11-05*. This WhitePaper is one of several resources selected and compiled by Marcus Zillman that I profiled in my recent eProfile "Z as Zillman" [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gerrymck/Zillman.pdf ] /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Updated Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From arhyno at uwindsor.ca Wed Feb 16 13:36:21 2005 From: arhyno at uwindsor.ca (arhyno@uwindsor.ca) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: library marketing was RE: Google Mail invitations? Any takers? In-Reply-To: <1108563049.421354699f2f4@mx1.up.ac.za> Message-ID: >One of the things that have struck me about Amazon ever since they started is >the way they manage to position themsevles on the web in such a way that I >quite often walk through their virtual doors when I definitely did not have >that intention in the first place: a kind of "have you considered Amazon as the >solution to your current information need?" > >Is it technically feasible to create such an invitation to appear whenever >someone uses a search engine from the university domain? At least this could >act as a catchment area for customers who have already made up their minds that >Google is their first choice It is probably technically feasible if you approach this the same way that Amazon does, and pay for the placement in the results. Google Desktop puts local searches on the top of general searches, so if you wanted to hand out your catalogue with a mechanism for updates, you might get library content in general internet searching space by staking out a section of the desktop. Google has promised an API for the desktop tool so more options might appear on this front, but even with a large foot in the searching sphere, I worry more about what happens if Amazon's ubiquity goes beyond search engines. Amazon has done some work with Microsoft for integrating citations and cover art into Office. I don't know the status of this project, but what happens if that annoying paperclip wizard in Word might starts saying things like "You seem to be working on an essay on trains, Amazon offers the following books..". Ironically, ubiquitous searching and desktop integration seemed to be a flop in 1997 or so when there was a utility promoted by Alta Vista called SearchPal. Alta Vista was the biggest thing in internet search at the time, and SearchPal was an interesting twist on toolbars/bookmarklets since it was a standalone application that worked with the clipboard and any application on the desktop. On the face of it, SearchPal was like a more powerful browser toolbar, but it seemed to get lost in the shuffle. Still, the idea of the library having a presence at the "searchable" moment, both in the browser and elsewhere, is well worth pursuing. art From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 16 13:46:03 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: <5D000B78613C1C48989C7A5923B71ABA02E49603@franklin.chesterfield.gov> References: <5D000B78613C1C48989C7A5923B71ABA02E49603@franklin.chesterfield.gov> Message-ID: <421394EB.6020706@ohiolink.edu> Breakall, Scott wrote: > Thomas, > > Mostly I think problems in viewing some websites using Firefox have to > do with Firefox's lack of support for ActiveX. > > ~Scott~ > None of which I seem to need or use (except Windows Update for security patches. There's a joke in there somewhere). Following Microsoft's recommendations at I run IE with active scripting and ActiveX disabled for all sites I haven't explicitly decided to trust. So it's another case where even IE may not be compatible with a web designer's all-IE idea for a site design. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From bcarson at middlebury.edu Wed Feb 16 13:56:44 2005 From: bcarson at middlebury.edu (Carson, Bryan P.) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: <69FFDC55F2614E418DC056ABC0F9A0D601C57042@bearcat.middlebury.edu> To add to Bill Drew's comment: Try using the Micro$oft CMS editing function on anything but IE, though newer versions are *supposed* to work. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bryan Carson Electronic Services Librarian Library and Information Services Middlebury College -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Wed, February 16, 2005 1:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Try using Microsoft Outlook Webmail in any browser but IE. That is one example. In fact, it is the only time I use IE any more except to check on webpage changes. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From uldmjl at buffalo.edu Wed Feb 16 14:36:49 2005 From: uldmjl at buffalo.edu (Mark J. Ludwig) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? References: <5D000B78613C1C48989C7A5923B71ABA02E49603@franklin.chesterfield.gov> Message-ID: <004501c5145e$dbba7b00$5172cd80@HAL> Firefox looks cooler than IE and I think most people will go for it simply on aesthetics. Firefox fails to render XML with a stylesheet like IE does, and we have several applications written in Javascript/vbscript/asp (not by our choice) that Firefox displays with unclickable buttons. In side by side comparisons, Firefox randomly fails to display things that are rendered OK by IE. Often the Firefox user would not miss them. For example, one website offered a plugin service for date and time, but you only see the date in Firefox without the time. I have heard Mac and Firefox users reply: "what button?" "Write once, run anywhere", once the mantra of the web, is now a cynical joke. I've been adding code to redirect Mozilla browsers away from incompatabilities, so users will not be confused by what they are missing, but will know they must use IE to play. OK, you can flame me now. Mark J. Ludwig Library Systems Manager University Libraries University at Buffalo State University of New York 432 Capen Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 (716) 645-5952 From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Feb 16 14:48:14 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: "Firefox looks cooler than IE and I think most people will go for it simply on aesthetics." That remains to be seen. I simply hope that both browsers remain because we need the competition. I think Opera is out of the picture. I asked for their academic license for our public computers and have not yet heard back from them. I am beginning to think Opera is now dead in the water. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From kunkle at sonoma.lib.ca.us Wed Feb 16 14:48:37 2005 From: kunkle at sonoma.lib.ca.us (Stephanie Kunkle) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: VACANCY - LIBRARIAN IV -PUBLIC LIBRARY Message-ID: MESSAGE: LIBRARIAN IV IN BIBLIOGRAPHIC SERVICES Sonoma County Library, Santa Rosa, CA SALARY RANGE: $71,385 - $86,777 CLOSING DATE: 5:00 P.M., March 2, 2005 DEFINITION Under general direction, supervises and coordinates all library bibliographic services and does related work as required. This is an administrative line position, responsible for Bibliographic Services personnel and operations and serves as a member of the Library's senior management team, formulating, monitoring and evaluating the implementation and effectiveness of policies, practices and procedures related to Technical Services operations, ensuring policies and procedures represent public service needs. APPLICATIONS: Application form, job announcement, and supplemental questionnaire may be obtained: ONLINE via job pages at www.sonoma.lib.ca.us/libinfo/jobs/index.html E-MAIL by contacting kunkle@sonoma.lib.ca.us From murata at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 16 14:53:32 2005 From: murata at u.washington.edu (Corey Murata) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? References: <42138451.1040307@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <019201c51461$316541f0$d2f35f80@lib.washington.edu> > I must be going to the wrong sites. What is this pesky nonstandard "IE" > code that's causing Firefox to fail everywhere? I see a lot of bad > markup but little in page designs that are specific to IE. I honestly > cannot name a site I've visited that fails just because I'm using Firefox. If your library has access to Factiva, just try using that in Firefox (or anything not IE) and see how far you get. Most of non-IE failures I've seen is not so much bad markup or 'creative' CSS, it's bad client-side scripting. Cm ----------------------------------------------------------------- Corey Murata Business Computer-based Services Librarian Foster Business Library University of Washington Box 353224 Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-4360 murata@u.washington.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 16 15:12:52 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox revolution over? In-Reply-To: <019201c51461$316541f0$d2f35f80@lib.washington.edu> References: <019201c51461$316541f0$d2f35f80@lib.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4213A944.9060802@ohiolink.edu> Corey Murata wrote: > If your library has access to Factiva, just try using that in Firefox (or > anything not IE) and see how far you get. Most of non-IE failures I've seen > is not so much bad markup or 'creative' CSS, it's bad client-side scripting. > I know I shouldn't change the dead horse I'm beating in the middle of the stream...or words to that effect. But I'm always amazed that vendors will smilingly take our money and at the same time smilingly tell us that indefensible design choices on their part will prevent X percent of our users from getting their content (it's text retrieval folks--no reason it shouldn't work in any browser under the sun). And I'm amazed that we let them get away with it. What percentage of UW users are using something other than IE? (You do know, right?) What do you tell them? TPD From LScritch at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us Wed Feb 16 16:17:03 2005 From: LScritch at MAIL.co.washoe.nv.us (Scritchfield, Larry) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Broken websites (was Firefox revolution over?) Message-ID: <52D1E8A877040744B1AA562F4AD9192B085B9456@mail.co.washoe.nv.us> Bill Drew wrote: >Try using Microsoft Outlook Webmail in any browser but IE. That is one >example. In fact, it is the only time I use IE any more except to check >on webpage changes. I can't even get MS Outlook Webmail to work with IE with XP SP2! (reply/ forward functions) This despite recommendations at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;883575 "Description of the known issues with using Outlook Web Access on a Windows XP SP2-based computer" ...where MS describes how their servers are incompatible with their clients. (It does work, however, with Konquerer on Debian Linux.) Larry Scritchfield lscritch@mail.co.washoe.nv.us Internet Services Librarian (775) 327-8349 Washoe County Library System www.washoe.lib.nv.us From plim at ccsf.edu Wed Feb 16 17:06:34 2005 From: plim at ccsf.edu (plim@ccsf.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows Message-ID: <4213c3ea.2e52.16838@ccsf.edu> Hi all, We have seen a lot of "floppy disk not recognized by Windows" problem lately. Students saved something on the disks using the same computer, but can't open it later and are asked to reformat the disks by the computer. Our IT people pointed us to Microsoft's Help Center's explanation/solution at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;1400 60 which blames it on the media descriptor byte. However, we checked some of the problem disks and found that the media descriptor byte on those disks have the correct byte specified by Microsoft. So we wonder if anyone on this listserv has come across this problem and has figured out the solution. If you have, please share with us. Thank you very much in advance. Kim Lim Skyline College Library From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 16 17:14:33 2005 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows Message-ID: Based on my experience over the past year with diskettes (brand-name or otherwise), I'd say the solution consists of CD-Rs/RWs or USB flash drives. I was getting about a 50% success rate with name-brand diskettes. There's more than one reason that many contemporary PCs lack diskette drives: in addition to saving a buck or two (and those drives were so bad that they couldn't have cost much more than that), they don't lead you to believe you have a workable storage mechanism. Unfortunate (only for migrating data forward), but there it is... Maybe someone else will have more optimistic solutions. -walt crawford- Hi all, We have seen a lot of "floppy disk not recognized by Windows" problem lately. Students saved something on the disks using the same computer, but can't open it later and are asked to reformat the disks by the computer. Our IT people pointed us to Microsoft's Help Center's explanation/solution at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;1400 60 which blames it on the media descriptor byte. However, we checked some of the problem disks and found that the media descriptor byte on those disks have the correct byte specified by Microsoft. So we wonder if anyone on this listserv has come across this problem and has figured out the solution. If you have, please share with us. Thank you very much in advance. Kim Lim Skyline College Library From BBoyle at EBPL.org Wed Feb 16 17:33:52 2005 From: BBoyle at EBPL.org (Brendan Boyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows Message-ID: <9DB86044EA02D74EB20254893F88E8AD042B4A@ebpl5.ebpl.net> Floppies are just not reliable. In addition to the frustrating "do you want to reformat it now?" prompt there are patrons using old floppies (retrieving info from the WEB) who are quite surprised when the disk no longer works. Magnets can erase data, plastic covers can wear out, metal sliding parts can get bent and stuck inside a drive, etc. I now tell people to back up their files by emailing them to themselves at a free email account. Hey, they're giving us so much disk space now, why not? My library is working to allow CD burning and flash drives and when floppies are gone for good, we won't miss them. Brendan Boyle Information Technology Librarian East Brunswick Public Library East Brunswick, New Jersey -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of plim@ccsf.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows Hi all, We have seen a lot of "floppy disk not recognized by Windows" problem lately. Students saved something on the disks using the same computer, but can't open it later and are asked to reformat the disks by the computer. Our IT people pointed us to Microsoft's Help Center's explanation/solution at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;1400 60 which blames it on the media descriptor byte. However, we checked some of the problem disks and found that the media descriptor byte on those disks have the correct byte specified by Microsoft. So we wonder if anyone on this listserv has come across this problem and has figured out the solution. If you have, please share with us. Thank you very much in advance. Kim Lim Skyline College Library From kwangsoohan at mail.und.nodak.edu Wed Feb 16 17:45:17 2005 From: kwangsoohan at mail.und.nodak.edu (Kwangsoo Han) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows References: <4213c3ea.2e52.16838@ccsf.edu> Message-ID: <04ad01c51479$2fdc9230$8bc18186@khan> That's exactly the same problem we have had in our library. We spent quite a lot of time figuring out the problem, but failed. We had a couple of possible/suspicious causes: [1] floppy drives themselves on our new computers do not function properly. [2]floppy disks are simply vulnerable to physical damages. But, nothing led to a real solution to prevent the symptom. So, what we did is to simply try to recover files on a failed diskette using a recovery software such as 'PC Inspector File Recovery,' and to encourage people use a flash drive which is much more stable and has more storage capacity. Wish there is a better solution. Kwangsoo Han Web Services Librarian Chester Fritz Librarian University of North Dakota ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:08 PM Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows > Hi all, > We have seen a lot of "floppy disk not recognized by > Windows" problem lately. Students saved something on the > disks using the same computer, but can't open it later and > are asked to reformat the disks by the computer. Our IT > people pointed us to Microsoft's Help Center's > explanation/solution at > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;1400 > 60 which blames it on the media descriptor byte. However, we > checked some of the problem disks and found that the media > descriptor byte on those disks have the correct byte > specified by Microsoft. So we wonder if anyone on this > listserv has come across this problem and has figured out > the solution. If you have, please share with us. > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Kim Lim > Skyline College Library > From shood at colacoll.edu Wed Feb 16 17:58:32 2005 From: shood at colacoll.edu (Sarah Hood) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources Message-ID: Dear Fellow Web4libbers: I am a reference librarian/webmaster at a small academic library and I am looking for a source(s) which will give me the 'latest and greatest', as it were, in Internet websites under various subject listings, such as History, English & Lit., Women's Studies, etc. - topics that are oriented for the college student conducting research. Some of my websites are dated and so I"m having to do some virtual weeding. But I would like to replace some of what I weed with other good sites. Most of what I'm finding is rather serendipitous: hearing about a new website on the news, from a colleague. I'm fairly new to the profession and am not sure where to turn for a reliable, up-to-date source of the latest and greatest reference websites. Any suggestions. Thanks, Sarah Hood Sarah Hood User Services Librarian/Webmaster J. Drake Edens Library Columbia College (803) 786-3703 (803) 786-3570 From rsullivan at sals.edu Wed Feb 16 18:09:56 2005 From: rsullivan at sals.edu (Robert Sullivan) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows References: <4213c3ea.2e52.16838@ccsf.edu> Message-ID: <005201c5147c$a4b9afe0$4701040a@sals.edu> > So we wonder if anyone on this > listserv has come across this problem and has figured out > the solution. If you have, please share with us. Not a solution exactly, but our workaround is an old Pentium-100 I set up last year with MS-DOS. We can copy the files off, reformat the disk and put them back on. This only works for disks which are physically OK, of course... if they have demagnetized them in some way there's not much hope. I have an old copy of Norton Utilities on the computer in case any file recovery is needed, but usually copying them off works. If you want to try this, you may have to test on more than one old PC at first. My first attempt was on a 486 which turned up its nose at a floppy which worked fine on the "newer" model. (No, we don't make a practice of running DOS here... although our first wave of NT PCs is approaching its eighth birthday.) Bob Sullivan Schenectady County Public Library (NY) Schenectady Digital History Archive From murphyjm at kenyon.edu Wed Feb 16 18:24:49 2005 From: murphyjm at kenyon.edu (Joseph Murphy) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows In-Reply-To: <005201c5147c$a4b9afe0$4701040a@sals.edu> References: <005201c5147c$a4b9afe0$4701040a@sals.edu> Message-ID: On Feb 16, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Robert Sullivan wrote: >> So we wonder if anyone on this >> listserv has come across this problem and has figured out >> the solution. If you have, please share with us. > > Not a solution exactly, but our workaround is an old Pentium-100 I set > up last year with MS-DOS. We can copy the files off, reformat the disk > and put them back on. This only works for disks which are physically > OK, of course... if they have demagnetized them in some way there's not > much hope. > > I have an old copy of Norton Utilities on the computer in case any file > recovery is needed, but usually copying them off works. I'm smiling from ear to ear to find out I'm not the only person doing this, except that I'm using Windows 3.1.1 and I am using Norton Disk Doctor. We also put the files on a new floppy, or better still a network drive space, and tell the user to consider that old floppy dead and throw it out. We have recently started using Bad Copy Pro on Windows 2000, with pretty good results. Still find a few which only come around on the old pizza box, though. Mostly, though, our solution is to use this as a selling point for (a) our backed-up network storage options and (b) a personal committment to LOCKSS. (Library Acronyms: they're not just for Breakfasts [Related Term -- Brunches] anymore.) Joe Murphy Librarian and Technology Consultant Library and Information Services Kenyon College murphyjm@kenyon.edu 740/427-5120 From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Wed Feb 16 19:07:48 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Podcasting via cell phone Message-ID: On moving my personal blog to BlogSpot, I discovered a free service they offer called audioBlogger. I just subscribed to it and put a test post of it on my blog via a call over my cell phone. It creates an MP3 file which is then inserted into a post on the blog. It is a long distance call but with most good cell phone plans would not cost extra. The audio quality is not too bad. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog: http://babyboomerlibrarian.blogspot.com/ "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From suekamm at mindspring.com Wed Feb 16 19:08:13 2005 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources Message-ID: <13594202.1108598893478.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Librarians' Index to the Internet! (http://lii.org) Not only are sites listed by subject, but they're annotated - and by librarians. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Hood Sent: Feb 16, 2005 5:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources Dear Fellow Web4libbers: I am a reference librarian/webmaster at a small academic library and I am looking for a source(s) which will give me the 'latest and greatest', as it were, in Internet websites under various subject listings, such as History, English & Lit., Women's Studies, etc. - topics that are oriented for the college student conducting research. Some of my websites are dated and so I"m having to do some virtual weeding. But I would like to replace some of what I weed with other good sites. Most of what I'm finding is rather serendipitous: hearing about a new website on the news, from a colleague. I'm fairly new to the profession and am not sure where to turn for a reliable, up-to-date source of the latest and greatest reference websites. Any suggestions. Thanks, Sarah Hood Sarah Hood User Services Librarian/Webmaster J. Drake Edens Library Columbia College (803) 786-3703 (803) 786-3570 Your friendly CyberGoddess and Councilor-at-large, Sue Kamm Inglewood/Los Angeles, CA Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 Visit my home page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm email: suekamm [at] mindspring.com "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." John Emerich Edward Dahlberg-Acton, Lord Acton (1834-1902) Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton From mwallace at library.unt.edu Wed Feb 16 18:38:38 2005 From: mwallace at library.unt.edu (Martin Wallace) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: Fwd: need help getting off Web4Lib list - please! Message-ID: Can someone please help me unsubscribe. Reading this list has become a full time job and my boss doesn't like that idea too much ;) I followed all the rules in the FAQ, never got a reply form listproc after sending the unsubscribe message (which I tried twice) and have received nearly 50 more emails in the mean time. I then emailed roy tennant, as per the instructions in the FAQ, and the email bounced back to me. His email box must be full of Web4LIB email. Thus, I resort to sending my request directly to the list, even though I know I'm not supposed to. Whoever is in charge might think about updating the FAQ if the unsubscribe rules have changed. Thanks! Martin ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu Wed Feb 16 19:21:03 2005 From: bpulliam at postoffice.providence.edu (Beatrice Pulliam) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4213E36F.3090004@providence.edu> Sarah, I'm unloading alot of what I remember from my Collection Development class last year. :-) These are all academic library leaning... If you want an all-in-one-place look, I'd probably start with the Best of Website supplement published by Choice every year. Here's the actual title: Choice. Special supplement : current [web] reviews for academic libraries Also, College & Research Libraries News has an Internet Resources Column that looks at new resources by topic. Here's an index here, but it might be better to just do the literature search in a database: http://www.ala.org/ala/acrl/acrlpubs/crlnews/internetresources.htm ACRL also has a Core List for its Women's Studies Section WSS. I think the ACRL list is all books, but you may find more if you go to the WS site of the library that's hosting it: http://www.library.wisc.edu/libraries/WomensStudies/ It looks like they check the links regularly. I was going to recommend Internet Scout, but I haven't used it in a while and the page isn't coming up. You may also have some luck with: Infomine http://infomine.ucr.edu/ Bubl http://bubl.ac.uk/link/ Lastly, I'd also look at some of the larger libraries in the US: Columbia, I'd look at some of the collection development literature. There's bound to be some special issue type stuff out there on e-resources. Good luck. Beatrice Pulliam -- Beatrice R. Pulliam Reference Librarian and Assistant Professor Phillips Memorial Library Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918 401.865.2891 http://www.providence.edu/Academics/Phillips+Memorial+Library/ From athena at mail.ucf.edu Wed Feb 16 19:32:35 2005 From: athena at mail.ucf.edu (Athena Hoeppner) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: RSS - A solution to too much email??? Message-ID: I often complain that I get too much email - but switching to RSS wont help me absorb the deluge of information. Maybe I'm missing something, but RSS seems awfully similar to Usenet, except more popular and on the web. :-\ Athena Athena Hoeppner Electronic Resources Librarian athena@mail.ucf.edu (407)823-5049 >>> "Alvin Hutchinson" 15/Feb/05 1:02 >>> I have begun to wonder whether the listserv as a medium will change to be formatted as RSS/XML. One of the best things about RSS news feeds is that one no longer has to receive e-mail alerts from news services to keep abreast of a particular topic, etc. One of the primary complaints of my co-librarians is that they get too much e-mail. Part of it is the listservs that we ambitiously subscribe to but even when received in digest format, we often don't have time to read. From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Feb 16 21:19:10 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Podcasting via cell phone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050217021902.474E025599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> I heard a presentation of podcasting at a recent conference where the presenter, Brendan Greeley of Public Radio Exchange, talked about cell phone podcasting as a way for people in politically repressive countries (eek! I almost wrote "companies" ;> ) to present their views. It was a fascinating talk about using Web technologies for citizen empowerment. However, though you have successfully broadcasted, you haven't really podcast until you've made the sound file available via your RSS feed. :-) Bill, have you tried picking up your feed with an podcast aggregator such as ipodder? Does blogspot offer tips for enabling their RSS2 feeds for podcasting? Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] > On Behalf Of Drew, Bill > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:11 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Podcasting via cell phone > > On moving my personal blog to BlogSpot, I discovered a free service they > offer called audioBlogger. I just subscribed to it and put a test post > of it on my blog via a call over my cell phone. It creates an MP3 file > which is then inserted into a post on the blog. It is a long distance > call but with most good cell phone plans would not cost extra. The > audio quality is not too bad. > > Wilfred (Bill) Drew > Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference > Morrisville State College Library > E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu > AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 > BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ > Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ > Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ > SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ > My Blog: http://babyboomerlibrarian.blogspot.com/ > "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert > From DavidKing at kclibrary.org Wed Feb 16 22:29:22 2005 From: DavidKing at kclibrary.org (David King) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: > Maybe I'm missing something, but RSS seems awfully similar to Usenet, > except more popular and on the web. :-\ Apples and oranges, really. Usenet: messages had to propagate around all the many servers that were accepting Usenet feeds, some servers didn't get all the feeds, etc - it was sometimes difficult to keep up a conversation on a hot topic, because you'd answer, then someone else would say "why haven't you answered?" ... their part of the world hadn't gotten the comments yet - it got very confusing. Usenet is really more closely related to modern-day web-based chatrooms. RSS: This is a new way to read an old thing - you're writing on a website (same old thing), but "offering" your thoughts out to whoever wants to subscribe to your RSS feed (or find them through a search engine), which is the new thing. Keeping up a conversation is actually slightly more difficult with RSS - you either have to make comments in the comments area of the original blog post (not as many people do this, and you don't always get a good conversation going using this method), or you have to make comments using your OWN blog (so obviously, you have to have one to comment on). David King http://daweed.blogspot.com ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From popp at indiana.edu Wed Feb 16 23:11:07 2005 From: popp at indiana.edu (Popp, Mary F.) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources Message-ID: Hi! In addition to all of the good sites already mentioned, you will want to take a look at the MARS Best Free Websites at: http://www.ala.org/MARSmainTemplate.cfm?Section=MARS The lists are under the Publications Section of the site. Compiled by a committee of librarians from MARS (the Machine Assisted Reference Section) of RUSA (in ALA), this annual list identifies the best ready reference free web sites. The 2004 list has just been published and earlier lists are also found at the web site. There is a combined index of titles from 1999-2004. The sites are chosen based on clear criteria (http://www.ala.org/ala/rusa/rusaourassoc/rusasections/mars/marspubs/mar sbestrefcriteria.htm All titles are cataloged by the Library of Congress. If you are interested in the work of MARS and would like to be a part of the work of the MARS Best Committee, please contact me. Mary ------------------------------- Mary Pagliero Popp, Library Information Technology (Vice-Chair/Chair-Elect of MARS) Library E456, Indiana University, Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-8170 FAX: 812-856-4979 popp@indiana.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Hood Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 6:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Looking for Internet Website Reference Sources Dear Fellow Web4libbers: I am a reference librarian/webmaster at a small academic library and I am looking for a source(s) which will give me the 'latest and greatest', as it were, in Internet websites under various subject listings, such as History, English & Lit., Women's Studies, etc. - topics that are oriented for the college student conducting research. Some of my websites are dated and so I"m having to do some virtual weeding. But I would like to replace some of what I weed with other good sites. Most of what I'm finding is rather serendipitous: hearing about a new website on the news, from a colleague. I'm fairly new to the profession and am not sure where to turn for a reliable, up-to-date source of the latest and greatest reference websites. Any suggestions. Thanks, Sarah Hood Sarah Hood User Services Librarian/Webmaster J. Drake Edens Library Columbia College (803) 786-3703 (803) 786-3570 From dmattison at shaw.ca Thu Feb 17 00:22:24 2005 From: dmattison at shaw.ca (D.H. Mattison) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:05 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: RSS - A solution to too much email??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's a lot of confusion over what RSS is and does. Unlike Usenet, which is still popular, on the Web and interactive, and unlike e-mail, RSS by itself is non-interactive and a one-way street. You can't, however, as with e-mail, Usenet or other Web discussion boards, reply to a RSS feed item. RSS is essentially a distribution or publishing medium. There may be some benefit from turning e-mail into RSS because you're encoding in XML and you can do some nifty things with XML, so in theory and probably even now in practice, folks are using RSS in practical ways to manage the information flood. RSS was also repurposed by the blogging community into an indirect two-way communications medium, and that's I think where a lot of the confusion about it being an interactive format comes from. Bloggers, for example, subscribe to a few or a lot of RSS feeds and they in turn may blog or post information copied or gleaned from these RSS feeds. But that's all they can do with the RSS feed. The actual interaction that occurs in a blog happens through the commenting system, which is similar to a Web discussion board. And because of the way in which commmenting was implemented in some blog applications like Movable Type and WordPress, comment spam evolved. Although RSS is free from spam, there are RSS feeds that include paid advertising, so it's not quite the ideal ad-free medium it's sometimes made out to be. You're right that switching to RSS won't help you get a handle on the information flood. It's all a matter of personal choice. Just as everything isn't and will never be available on e-mail, so too will a lot of information never be encoded in an RSS feed. Sort of like listening to radio all the time and never experiencing TV, or watching TV all the time and abandoning radio. You'll have to pick and choose carefully and decides what works most effectively for you. David Mattison Victoria, BC, Canada dmattison@shaw.ca Tiki Wiki Hut: http://www.davidmattison.ca/tiki Ten Thousand Year Blog: http://www.davidmattison.ca/wordpress -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Athena Hoeppner Sent: February 16, 2005 4:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: RSS - A solution to too much email??? I often complain that I get too much email - but switching to RSS wont help me absorb the deluge of information. Maybe I'm missing something, but RSS seems awfully similar to Usenet, except more popular and on the web. :-\ Athena Athena Hoeppner Electronic Resources Librarian athena@mail.ucf.edu (407)823-5049 From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 23 09:47:31 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox problem In-Reply-To: <33511.68.20.219.148.1109128531.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> References: <33511.68.20.219.148.1109128531.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> Message-ID: <421C9783.70608@ohiolink.edu> Leo Robert Klein wrote: > On Tue, February 22, 2005 7:22 pm, Poulter, Dale said: > >>We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a >>problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages >>with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with >>FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? >> >> >> >> >> > > Probably a stupid question but are you closing your anchor tags? > I.E.: > Click Here! > You have won... > I agree that an unclosed anchor tag is the most likely suspect. Let me recommend id attributes as a syntax that makes more sense structurally and is less likely to get mangled: See note 3...

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Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From sdball at email.unc.edu Wed Feb 23 10:13:43 2005 From: sdball at email.unc.edu (Stephen Ball) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421C9DA7.9000601@email.unc.edu> Do you use drive letters in these internal links? For example: link? That will work in IE but not in Firefox or other standards compliant browsers. -------------- Stephen Ball Reserves Processor R.B. House Undergraduate Library UNC-Chapel Hill Poulter, Dale wrote: >All, > >We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a >problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages >with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with >FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? > > > > > > >--------------------------------------- >Dale Poulter >Systems Librarian >Library Information Technology Services >Vanderbilt University >Suite 700 >110 21st Avenue South >Nashville, TN 37240 >(615)343-5388 >(615)343-8834 (fax) >(615)207-9705 (cell) >dale.poulter@vanderbilt.edu > > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 23 10:45:22 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: Google AutoLink funnels users to Amazon Message-ID: <421CA512.1060408@ohiolink.edu> With the Web4Lib subscriber list hosed over the last couple days, I'm sure a lot of people already saw this and just couldn't share with the list. The beta version of Google Toolbar 3 ( - still IE-only) includes a feature called AutoLink. AutoLink scans pages for addresses and offers a link in the toolbar to Google Maps. It also looks for Vehicle ID numbers and shipping numbers from the USPS, UPS, et al. It also looks for ISBNs and provides what appears to be a hardwired link to Amazon.com, labelled "Show Book Info". So in your catalog, OpenURL resolver, A&I databases, online syllabi, etc.(also, of course, book pages at barnesandnoble.com and other book retailers) -- wherever there's an ISBN, the toolbar will prominently offer to escort users away from your pages and over to Amazon. Cheers. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From leo at leoklein.com Wed Feb 23 10:46:13 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (leo@leoklein.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox problem Message-ID: On Tue, February 22, 2005 7:22 pm, Poulter, Dale said: > > We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a > problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages > with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with > FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? > > > > > Probably a stupid question but are you closing your anchor tags? I.E.: Click Here! You have won... LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:8C925649999CE22D9F1DCC920DD5CC29 -------------- next part -------------- ************************************************************ Non-text elements of this multipart message have been deleted to make the message conform with the policies of this list ************************************************************ From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 23 10:46:12 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (tdowling@ohiolink.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox problem Message-ID: Leo Robert Klein wrote: > On Tue, February 22, 2005 7:22 pm, Poulter, Dale said: > >>We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a >>problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages >>with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with >>FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? >> >> >> >> >> > > Probably a stupid question but are you closing your anchor tags? > I.E.: > Click Here! > You have won... > I agree that an unclosed anchor tag is the most likely suspect. Let me recommend id attributes as a syntax that makes more sense structurally and is less likely to get mangled: See note 3...

Yadda yadda

Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu -------------- next part -------------- AdmID:AA8AFF470F40C105993A1A74A79235D3 -------------- next part -------------- ************************************************************ Non-text elements of this multipart message have been deleted to make the message conform with the policies of this list ************************************************************ From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Wed Feb 23 10:49:54 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google AutoLink funnels users to Amazon In-Reply-To: <421CA512.1060408@ohiolink.edu> References: <421CA512.1060408@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <421CA622.90100@library.gatech.edu> Hey, I'm currently adding functionality in WAG the Dog to do /just the opposite/. I guess I need to make it into a toolbar, now. Thomas Dowling wrote: >With the Web4Lib subscriber list hosed over the last couple days, I'm >sure a lot of people already saw this and just couldn't share with the list. > >The beta version of Google Toolbar 3 >( - still IE-only) includes a >feature called AutoLink. AutoLink scans pages for addresses and offers >a link in the toolbar to Google Maps. It also looks for Vehicle ID >numbers and shipping numbers from the USPS, UPS, et al. It also looks >for ISBNs and provides what appears to be a hardwired link to >Amazon.com, labelled "Show Book Info". > >So in your catalog, OpenURL resolver, A&I databases, online syllabi, >etc.(also, of course, book pages at barnesandnoble.com and other book >retailers) -- wherever there's an ISBN, the toolbar will prominently >offer to escort users away from your pages and over to Amazon. > >Cheers. > > > > From larry.campbell at ubc.ca Wed Feb 23 11:10:37 2005 From: larry.campbell at ubc.ca (Larry Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google AutoLink funnels users to Amazon In-Reply-To: <421CA622.90100@library.gatech.edu> References: <421CA622.90100@library.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <421CAAFD.1000403@ubc.ca> Doesn't Udell's LibraryLookUp bookmarklet do just the opposite already? Larry Campbell Librarian, Information Technology Services UBC Library Email: larry.campbell@ubc.ca Telephone: 604.822.2076 http://www.library.ubc.ca Ross Singer wrote: > Hey, I'm currently adding functionality in WAG the Dog to do /just the > opposite/. > > I guess I need to make it into a toolbar, now. > > Thomas Dowling wrote: > > >>With the Web4Lib subscriber list hosed over the last couple days, I'm >>sure a lot of people already saw this and just couldn't share with the list. >> >>The beta version of Google Toolbar 3 >>( - still IE-only) includes a >>feature called AutoLink. AutoLink scans pages for addresses and offers >>a link in the toolbar to Google Maps. It also looks for Vehicle ID >>numbers and shipping numbers from the USPS, UPS, et al. It also looks >>for ISBNs and provides what appears to be a hardwired link to >>Amazon.com, labelled "Show Book Info". >> >>So in your catalog, OpenURL resolver, A&I databases, online syllabi, >>etc.(also, of course, book pages at barnesandnoble.com and other book >>retailers) -- wherever there's an ISBN, the toolbar will prominently >>offer to escort users away from your pages and over to Amazon. >> >>Cheers. >> >> >> >> > > > From murata at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 23 11:13:46 2005 From: murata at u.washington.edu (Corey Murata) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox problem References: <421C9783.70608@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <003b01c519c2$a6e989c0$d2f35f80@lib.washington.edu> I discovered recently that Firefox is case sensitive with internal links. So: and will break. IE, on the other hand, assumes "link"="Link" and (for good or bad) will take you to the spot. Cm ----------------------------------------------------------------- Corey Murata Business Computer-based Services Librarian Foster Business Library University of Washington Box 353224 Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-4360 murata@u.washington.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dowling" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:56 AM Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Firefox problem > Leo Robert Klein wrote: > > On Tue, February 22, 2005 7:22 pm, Poulter, Dale said: > > > >>We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a > >>problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages > >>with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with > >>FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > Probably a stupid question but are you closing your anchor tags? > > I.E.: > > Click Here! > > You have won... > > > > I agree that an unclosed anchor tag is the most likely suspect. Let me > recommend id attributes as a syntax that makes more sense structurally > and is less likely to get mangled: > > See note 3... > >

Yadda yadda

> > > Thomas Dowling > tdowling@ohiolink.edu > > From dale.poulter at vanderbilt.edu Wed Feb 23 11:34:56 2005 From: dale.poulter at vanderbilt.edu (Poulter, Dale) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox problem --Solution In-Reply-To: <421BE488.1020208@vcu.edu> References: <421BE488.1020208@vcu.edu> Message-ID: <3DDAE60CD5318861A2E4F4D6@litspoulter> Thanks to everyone who replied. Special thanks to Thomas Krichel who reminded me that "name" is deprecated and Rachel Vacek for finding a typo in the page (the id was lowercase and the href was upper case). --------------------------------------- Dale Poulter Systems Librarian Library Information Technology Services Vanderbilt University Suite 700 110 21st Avenue South Nashville, TN 37240 (615)343-5388 (615)343-8834 (fax) (615)207-9705 (cell) dale.poulter@vanderbilt.edu From umassdlcc at umassd.edu Wed Feb 23 12:00:29 2005 From: umassdlcc at umassd.edu (Char!ie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox Message-ID: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> Today one our reference librarians told me they have been having problems with EBSCO databases and Firefox. For example, when they click on an article title in a results list from an Advanced Search in either CINAHL or Inspect a pop-up box appears stating "the document contains no data". So no detailed citation/abstract is displayed. Also, if you try to add citations to a "folder" within these EBSCO databases and choose "folder has items" the same pop-up appears. All of the above seems to work fine in IE. One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO with the last response being: "..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across the board from Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet Explorer to see if it resolved the problem. ." We have recently switched half of our workstations to Firefox to test it out. Other than this problem we have received no other reported problems. However, some librarians are suggesting we switch the browser back to IE from Firefox. I said this might be a temporary solution, but that it would not help our users that use other browsers from home or other places on campus. Have others experience this problem with Firefox? I looked through the list and only saw problems reported related to ActiveX. Thoughts? charlie mcneil systems & digital services librarian umass dartmouth library (508) 999-8680 cmcneil@umassd.edu From adarby at ithaca.edu Wed Feb 23 12:28:06 2005 From: adarby at ithaca.edu (Andrew Darby) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> References: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> Message-ID: <421CBD26.2040407@ithaca.edu> I don't think this constitutes a solution, but there is a firefox extension (ieview) that allows you to right click on any page and "View this page in IE"--basically, launching IE and taking you to the same page you're on. Quite handy for a number of situations . . . . ieview (i think this is a persistent link): https://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&id=35&vid=1179 Andrew Darby Web Services Librarian Ithaca College Library http://www.ithaca.edu/library/ Char!ie wrote: > Today one our reference librarians told me they have been having problems > with EBSCO databases and Firefox. For example, when they click on an article > title in a results list from an Advanced Search in either CINAHL or Inspect > a pop-up box appears stating "the document contains no data". So no detailed > citation/abstract is displayed. Also, if you try to add citations to a > "folder" within these EBSCO databases and choose "folder has items" the same > pop-up appears. > > All of the above seems to work fine in IE. > > One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO with the last > response being: > > "..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across the board from > Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, > Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet Explorer to > see if it resolved the problem. ." > > We have recently switched half of our workstations to Firefox to test it > out. Other than this problem we have received no other reported problems. > However, some librarians are suggesting we switch the browser back to IE > from Firefox. I said this might be a temporary solution, but that it would > not help our users that use other browsers from home or other places on > campus. > > Have others experience this problem with Firefox? I looked through the list > and only saw problems reported related to ActiveX. Thoughts? > > charlie mcneil > systems & digital services librarian > umass dartmouth library > (508) 999-8680 > cmcneil@umassd.edu > > From leo at leoklein.com Wed Feb 23 12:45:53 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google AutoLink funnels users to Amazon In-Reply-To: <421CA512.1060408@ohiolink.edu> References: <421CA512.1060408@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <49279.131.193.221.97.1109180753.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com> On Wed, February 23, 2005 9:47 am, Thomas Dowling said: > > The beta version of Google Toolbar 3 > ( - still IE-only) includes a > feature called AutoLink. AutoLink scans pages for addresses and offers > a link in the toolbar to Google Maps. It also looks for Vehicle ID > numbers and shipping numbers from the USPS, UPS, et al. It also looks > for ISBNs and provides what appears to be a hardwired link to > Amazon.com, labelled "Show Book Info". > > So in your catalog, OpenURL resolver, A&I databases, online syllabi, > etc.(also, of course, book pages at barnesandnoble.com and other book > retailers) -- wherever there's an ISBN, the toolbar will prominently > offer to escort users away from your pages and over to Amazon. > Yeah, when I read about this on Slashdot, I thought, oh no, here we go again. Part of Google's motto is "Do No Harm" yet I really wonder what the implications are when other companies start doing this as well -- I mean, configuring a toolbar isn't all that hard if you've got a mind to do it. Also, what about the recent agreement between Google and a number of our academic/research libraries? Will things be added there as well? As providers of content these are important questions for us -- no matter who the company is or how voluntary (yeah, right) the participation is. LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From george at library.caltech.edu Wed Feb 23 12:57:05 2005 From: george at library.caltech.edu (george@library.caltech.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: Firefox revolution over? Message-ID: <2DB0071B2579A2448430A96C451BBB2727E2D2@CLSX.cls.caltech.edu> Arriving late to the party, but I had a relevant experience yesterday which I suspect will not be unique. After years of fighting to maintain multiple (read 2) browser options on the public workstations, and almost a year trying to restore the dual browser option, I was treated to upbeat comments from IT staff about Firefox, especially noting the built-in RSS support. If library/institutional/corporate IT momentum shifts to Firefox in the near term because of the well documented advantages of Firefox/vulnerabilities of IE, it won't matter what IE7 brings to the table in 2006(?). Reading the stories linked in last week's posts, an initial beta is proposed for late summer with an already stated plan for at least a second beta before any finished version is released of IE7. With the usual schedule slip, it is hardly a jest to wonder if IE7 is shorthand for IE(200)7. George S. Porter Sherman Fairchild Library of Engineering & Applied Science California Institute of Technology Mail Code 1-43, Pasadena, CA 91125-4300 Telephone (626) 395-3409 Fax (626) 431-2681 http://library.caltech.edu contributor http://stlq.info | http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/fosblog.html From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Feb 23 13:05:41 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox In-Reply-To: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> References: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> Message-ID: <421CC5F5.7000709@ohiolink.edu> Char!ie wrote: > One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO with the last > response being: > > "..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across the board from > Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, > Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet Explorer to > see if it resolved the problem. ." "There's a common problem, but we won't tell you what it is." A snarky tech support way of not saying how easily fixable such a problem would be and how deeply entrenched they are with Microsoft-only solutions, all while condescendingly inferring that you aren't bright enough to understand the problem if they did explain it. Ask them to document the issue in detail and give an estimate of when they'll fix it (or, what percentage of their users need to be on Firefox before they'll take it seriously). -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From CreechA at cwu.EDU Wed Feb 23 14:13:41 2005 From: CreechA at cwu.EDU (Anna Creech) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox Message-ID: I prefer the User Agent Switcher extension, as it gives me the option of Netscape and Opera as well as IE. http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/useragentswitcher/ Anna ----------------------------------- Anna L. Creech, MLS Serials & Electronic Resources Librarian Central Washington University Serials Department - Library 400 E. University Way Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548 (509) 963-1718 >>> Andrew Darby 2/23/2005 9:31:23 AM >>> I don't think this constitutes a solution, but there is a firefox extension (ieview) that allows you to right click on any page and "View this page in IE"--basically, launching IE and taking you to the same page you're on. Quite handy for a number of situations . . . . ieview (i think this is a persistent link): https://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&id=35&vid=1179 Andrew Darby Web Services Librarian Ithaca College Library http://www.ithaca.edu/library/ Char!ie wrote: > Today one our reference librarians told me they have been having problems > with EBSCO databases and Firefox. For example, when they click on an article > title in a results list from an Advanced Search in either CINAHL or Inspect > a pop-up box appears stating "the document contains no data". So no detailed > citation/abstract is displayed. Also, if you try to add citations to a > "folder" within these EBSCO databases and choose "folder has items" the same > pop-up appears. > > All of the above seems to work fine in IE. > > One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO with the last > response being: > > "..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across the board from > Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, > Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet Explorer to > see if it resolved the problem. ." > > We have recently switched half of our workstations to Firefox to test it > out. Other than this problem we have received no other reported problems. > However, some librarians are suggesting we switch the browser back to IE > from Firefox. I said this might be a temporary solution, but that it would > not help our users that use other browsers from home or other places on > campus. > > Have others experience this problem with Firefox? I looked through the list > and only saw problems reported related to ActiveX. Thoughts? > > charlie mcneil > systems & digital services librarian > umass dartmouth library > (508) 999-8680 > cmcneil@umassd.edu > > From Jon-Ritterbush at utc.edu Wed Feb 23 16:11:36 2005 From: Jon-Ritterbush at utc.edu (Jon Ritterbush) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] WEB4LIB digest 3652 Message-ID: <665F21087112FC448EEA03CCC01880E0520EDC@exch1.labdir.utc.edu> I have NOT been able to duplicate this problem with viewing Advanced Search results or adding to/reviewing folder contents in EBSCO CINAHL using Firefox 1.0 with Windows XPSP2 (fully patched). ___________________________________________________ Jon Ritterbush UC Foundation Assistant Professor and Systems Administrator Lupton Library, University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Voice: 423-425-4469 Fax: 423-425-4775 E-mail: Jon-Ritterbush@utc.edu Website: http://www.lib.utc.edu >> >>------------------------------ >> >>Topic No. 17 >> >>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:00:29 -0500 >>From: "Char!ie" >>To: >>Subject: Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox >>Message-ID: <20050223170031.BJGT17120.lakermmtao11.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> >> >>Today one our reference librarians told me they have been >>having problems >>with EBSCO databases and Firefox. For example, when they >>click on an article >>title in a results list from an Advanced Search in either >>CINAHL or Inspect >>a pop-up box appears stating "the document contains no data". >>So no detailed >>citation/abstract is displayed. Also, if you try to add citations to a >>"folder" within these EBSCO databases and choose "folder has >>items" the same >>pop-up appears. >> >>All of the above seems to work fine in IE. >> >>One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO >>with the last >>response being: >> >>"..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across >>the board from >>Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, >>Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet >>Explorer to >>see if it resolved the problem. ." >> >>We have recently switched half of our workstations to Firefox >>to test it >>out. Other than this problem we have received no other >>reported problems. >>However, some librarians are suggesting we switch the browser >>back to IE >>from Firefox. I said this might be a temporary solution, but >>that it would >>not help our users that use other browsers from home or other >>places on >>campus. >> >>Have others experience this problem with Firefox? I looked >>through the list >>and only saw problems reported related to ActiveX. Thoughts? >> >>charlie mcneil >>systems & digital services librarian >>umass dartmouth library >>(508) 999-8680 >>cmcneil@umassd.edu >> From bernies at uillinois.edu Wed Feb 23 17:39:00 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: E-mail discussion lists and blogs? Message-ID: There's been some discussion back and forth on this list about using blogs to distribute information rather than posting notes to e-mail discussion lists. Technical/access issues aside, I have a very basic curiosity-type question for those of you out there who maintain your own blogs. Do you have a way to measure how many people are exposed to the info in your blogs? I guess what I am getting at is whether there is any hard information that could be used to measure the "audience" that you are reaching. You can get a general idea with e-mail discussion lists, e.g., a posting to Web4Lib theoretically reaches an "audience" of about 3200 people (i.e., the number of Web4Lib subscribers). How do you tell how big your blog "audience" is? I realize this is probably a na?ve, apples-to-ranges comparison. But I'm curious anyway. :-) Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From vvsnail at zip.com.au Wed Feb 23 17:56:39 2005 From: vvsnail at zip.com.au (Sean Volke) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] E-mail discussion lists and blogs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Sloan, Bernie wrote: > I guess what I am getting at is whether there is any hard information that could be used to measure the "audience" that you are reaching. You can get a general idea with e-mail discussion lists, e.g., a posting to Web4Lib theoretically reaches an "audience" of about 3200 people (i.e., the number of Web4Lib subscribers). How do you tell how big your blog "audience" is? I was chatting about this last night with a couple of local bloggers and my method is a bit rough but gives me a conservative estimate (for my personal blog): 1. grep the ISP's daily web log for my account name and send to a file. 2. sort by IP and remove duplicates 3. count remaining IP This gives me a total of how many sites have accessed my site, eg if 9 folk on bloglines are checking it, it will count as 1. I can also tell how many of those are using the rss feed. As I say, it's a bit rough, but it gives me a rough estimate of what's happening with the site, and is more useful for chatting changes over time rather than a daily "hit count". One of these days I'd like to set up something a bit more authoritative and can capture a bit more information (like referrer logs) but this'll do for now. -- snail @ smacktard net http://snail.ws/ A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel - Frost. From SuHui at library.ucsd.edu Wed Feb 23 19:03:03 2005 From: SuHui at library.ucsd.edu (SuHui Ho) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: 2005 Margaret McKinley Memorial Student Scholarship Essay Competition Message-ID: LACASIS Los Angeles Chapter of ASIST announces the 2005 Margaret McKinley Memorial Student Scholarship Essay Competition The Los Angeles Chapter of the American Society for Information Science and Technology (LACASIS) is sponsoring the Fourteenth Annual Student Scholarship Essay Competition. This Competition, first established in 1992, and renamed in memory of the late Margaret McKinley in 1993, is intended to encourage students in Librarianship and Information Science Programs to consider the benefits of participation in the activities of professional societies. AWARD: The winner will receive reimbursement funding up to US $1,000 for registration, airfare, and hotel expenses to attend the ASIST 2005 Annual Meeting, "Sparking Synergies: Bringing Research and Practice Together @ ASIST '05" and a one-year membership in ASIST. Two runners-up will receive one-year memberships in ASIST. ELIGIBILITY: All students enrolled in Library and Information Science Programs (LIS), including those graduating in spring 2005 at universities within the areas represented by the Los Angles Chapter of ASIST (Hawaii, California, Australia, and New Zealand) are eligible to enter. Students enrolled in graduate programs (at universities within the areas represented by the Los Angles Chapter of ASIST) not identified as LIS programs may be eligible. Interested students in non-LIS programs must include in the essay submission (in addition to other essay requirements below), a statement explaining how the program mission relates to ASIST and how ASIST membership and conference attendance would be beneficial. Membership in ASIST is not required to enter the Competition. TO ENTER: Compose an essay that addresses the following: * What specific benefits do I expect to derive from attending the ASIST 2005 Annual meeting? * How will I integrate these benefits into the start of my new career? * How might LACASIS or ASIST benefit from you receiving this scholarship? For details about the theme of the ASIST 2005 Annual meeting, visit the ASIST website http://www.asis.org/ Essays should not exceed 500 words or two typed, double spaced pages. Do not identify yourself or your school on the essay. Submit the essay with a separate cover sheet listing your name, address, email, telephone number, and school by the deadline of May 31, 2005. Essays may be submitted by postal mail, email, or fax to: Aura Lippincott UCLA Anderson School Rosenfeld Library 110 Westwood Plaza, Suite E202 Box 951460 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1460 Email: alippinc@library.ucla.edu Fax: 1-310-825-6632 A panel of LACASIS members will judge the essays. Winners will be notified by July 31, 2005. From jrsp at comhem.se Wed Feb 23 21:33:57 2005 From: jrsp at comhem.se (J) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:10 2005 Subject: CREATIVE COMMONS ??? Message-ID: <009301c51a19$4ad1dfa0$5c97fa53@jimjimsdatotr> Do someone know how i publish my own music online under this "free" licensing i hear so much of. jimjim ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From lists at lisnews.com Thu Feb 24 07:35:00 2005 From: lists at lisnews.com (lists@lisnews.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] E-mail discussion lists and blogs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26193.148.144.175.2.1109248500.squirrel@148.144.175.2> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: web4lib@webjunction.org >>On Behalf Of Sloan, Bernie >>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 5:45 PM >>Subject: [WEB4LIB] E-mail discussion lists and blogs? >> >> >>There's been some discussion back and forth on this list >>about using blogs to distribute information rather than >>posting notes to e-mail discussion lists. >> >>Technical/access issues aside, I have a very basic >>curiosity-type question for those of you out there who >>maintain your own blogs. Do you have a way to measure how >>many people are exposed to the info in your blogs? I think Thomas Dowling's article on web stats from a few years back is still relevant to answer this question. In short, we only have a rough guess as to how many people are exposed to our blogs. Reeaallll ruff. For example, according to Urchin (that's my stats package), in the past week, LISNews has a total of about 81,500 sessions, about 10,000 a day. Urchin says "A 'Session' is defined as a series of clicks on your site by an individual visitor during a specific period of time." So does this mean that LISNews gets about 10,000 readers a day? Well, probably not. That same week we served 315,000 pages and that meant about 707,000 hits. This all went out to about 13,200 unique IP addresses. Does this mean that LISNews had about 13,200 readers in the last week? Again, probably not. Looking at the top 10 domains recorded Yahoo, inktomisearch, and Google were the only 3 that are obviously robots, but there's a majority that are unknown. So a good portion of visitors aren't people at all, but some kind of bot, search engine, feedreader, spammer or assorted other non-humans. If I had to guess, I'd guess that about ~30% of traffic (hits, pages, sessions, whatever) is not a person reading something. ~30% of everything we send out goes to a machine that is using or reusing it for something else. But even that's just a guess, it could be more, though I doubt it's less. So do the Apache logs measure all our readers? How many people are reading our RSS feeds? No idea, like most blogs now our RSS feeds are some of the most popular pages, and there's no way to tell how they're being used or reused, or where they're being read by how many people. To make things worse we have a couple dozen different feeds. And this doesn't take into account the mailing list, which is several thousand email addresses as well, and that email contains all the links posted with each story, so can I count those people are unique readers as well? I don't know. SO, to answer your questions, "how many people are exposed to the info in your blogs?" I have no idea. More than I can fit in my house, but not enough to fill a stadium. -Blake Carver LISNews.com http://lisnews.com From digicult-forum at digicult.info Thu Feb 24 08:15:34 2005 From: digicult-forum at digicult.info (digicult-forum) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: DigiCULT: Technology Watch Report 3 - Now Available Message-ID: <421DD376.9030601@digicult.info> DigiCULT: Technology Watch Report 3 - Now Available "Core Technologies for the Cultural and Scientific Heritage Sector", January 2005 As in previous TWRs, this volume examines six core technologies. Those covered here underlie a wide range of future applications, and include: Open Source Software, Natural Language Processing, Information Retrieval technologies, Location Based Systems (especially GIS and GPS), Visualisation of Data, and Telepresence, Haptics and Robotics. This report builds on our earlier two reports: TWR1 (2003) examined Customer Relationship Management Systems, Digital Asset Management Systems, Virtual Reality, Human Computer Interface technologies, Smart Tags and Labels, and Games. TWR2 (2004) examined Application Service Models, the XML family of technologies, Cultural Agents and Avatars, Mobile Access technologies, Rights Management and Payment technologies, and Collaborative Mechanisms and Technologies. Download Technology Watch Report 3: Hi-Res (30 MB) http://www.digicult.info/downloads/TWR3-highres.pdf Lo-Res (6 MB) http://www.digicult.info/downloads/TWR3-lowres.pdf DigiCULT Publications offer a valuable resource of mission-critical information in the selection and use of digital technologies for Europe's heritage organisations: - Thematic Issues: results of expert forums http://www.digicult.info/pages/themiss.php - DigiCULT Technology Watch Reports: in-depth technology evaluation http://www.digicult.info/pages/techwatch.php - DigiCULT.Info Newsletter: articles about services, studies, technologies, and activities http://www.digicult.info/pages/newsletter.php Subscribe to the Newsletter DigiCULT.Info http://www.digicult.info/pages/subscribe.php (c) DigiCULT Forum 2002-2004 From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Thu Feb 24 09:33:22 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] CREATIVE COMMONS ??? In-Reply-To: <009301c51a19$4ad1dfa0$5c97fa53@jimjimsdatotr> References: <009301c51a19$4ad1dfa0$5c97fa53@jimjimsdatotr> Message-ID: <421DE5B2.3060904@kcoyle.net> Just go to http://creativecommons.org. It's a quick bit of click and paste. kc J wrote: >Do someone know how i publish my own music online under this "free" = >licensing i hear so much of. >jimjim > > >********************************************************************* >Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, >this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there >to a plain text message. >********************************************************************* > > > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Feb 24 09:36:10 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: Citation creation code? Message-ID: I have been investigating different citation creation tools available on the internet. I have found most to be wanting. A significant number create wrong citations, especially in APA formats. I am looking for "open source" code or code available under the GNU license that would create citations in the proper format via a web form. I am not after creating or using citation management software. Any ideas? I looked at the website for opens source for librarians and did not find anything there of use. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference Morrisville State College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ My Blog: http://babyboomerlibrarian.blogspot.com/ "To teach is to learn twice." - Joseph Joubert From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Feb 24 09:53:51 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421DEA7F.5060103@ohiolink.edu> Drew, Bill wrote: > I have been investigating different citation creation tools available on > the internet. I have found most to be wanting. A significant number > create wrong citations, especially in APA formats. I am looking for > "open source" code or code available under the GNU license that would > create citations in the proper format via a web form. I am not after > creating or using citation management software. Any ideas? I looked > at the website for opens source for librarians and did not find anything > there of use. > It's hard to say, without know what tools you've tried and in what ways they get the APA format wrong. It might be more productive to document the errors and contact the developers of those tools to see if they're easy fixes. My experience with an internal citation formatter is that several of the more common citation formats require subjective information that can't be automated or that aren't part of the citation itself (Is it a scholarly journal or a popular magazine? Did you access it electronically, and if so what on what date and from what URL? etc.) -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Feb 24 10:17:56 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: > It's hard to say, without know what tools you've tried and in > what ways > they get the APA format wrong. It might be more productive > to document > the errors and contact the developers of those tools to see if they're > easy fixes. One in particular goes by the name of Citation Machine. The author of it states that it does make mistakes in citations. I guess the coding would be much more complex than I realize. > > My experience with an internal citation formatter is that > several of the > more common citation formats require subjective information that can't > be automated or that aren't part of the citation itself (Is it a > scholarly journal or a popular magazine? Did you access it > electronically, and if so what on what date and from what URL? etc.) I was thinking of more of a web form where the user enters all of the necessary information and in return gets the appropriate citation. The problems I see is not the fact that the fact that the students don't have the necessary information for a complete citation. It is simply plugging in the information in the right slots. Bill Drew From sgarwood at infolink.org Thu Feb 24 10:31:34 2005 From: sgarwood at infolink.org (Steve Garwood) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c51a85$f03f73f0$8e00a8c0@steve> Ok...responding as someone who does LOTS of workshops on Plagiarism (especially to the high school set). You might want to try NoodleTools and EasyBib...neither are perfect, but they're pretty good and I hear lots of good things from the high schools about both...particularly Noodletools). You can do a free trial of both products last time I checked and even if you have to subscribe both were under $10 per year for an individual. Citation Machine is ok, but it's not very "robust" try to do anything too complicated and it's not going to be able to handle it. -- Commencing Rant Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is citations. I've often found that from experience and stories related from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary information to cite properly...they love to photocopy articles and pages from books...they almost always forget to copy/write down the publication information (they do notice at 2am the night before that they do not have this information). Once they discover they do not have the info they seem to make one of the following decisions: 1. Fake the citation; 2. Attribute the information to another source they do have documentation for; 3. Look up another source and attribute to that; 4. Omit any type of citation whatsoever. -- End Rant :-) Steve ************************************************************************ * Steve Garwood Program and Services Coordinator, INFOLINK Tel: 732-752-7720 Fax: 732-752-7785 Toll free: 866-505-LINK Fax: 800-793-8007 Email to: sgarwood@infolink.org Web: http://www.infolink.org Personal Web: http://www.stevegarwood.com CD&L: #2301 "I don't care what they say about me as long as they spell my name right" P.T. Barnum (attributed) ************************************************************************ * -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Drew, Bill Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > It's hard to say, without know what tools you've tried and in > what ways > they get the APA format wrong. It might be more productive > to document > the errors and contact the developers of those tools to see if they're > easy fixes. One in particular goes by the name of Citation Machine. The author of it states that it does make mistakes in citations. I guess the coding would be much more complex than I realize. > > My experience with an internal citation formatter is that > several of the > more common citation formats require subjective information that can't > be automated or that aren't part of the citation itself (Is it a > scholarly journal or a popular magazine? Did you access it > electronically, and if so what on what date and from what URL? etc.) I was thinking of more of a web form where the user enters all of the necessary information and in return gets the appropriate citation. The problems I see is not the fact that the fact that the students don't have the necessary information for a complete citation. It is simply plugging in the information in the right slots. Bill Drew From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Thu Feb 24 10:50:03 2005 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: Cites & Insights 5:4 available Message-ID: Cites & Insights 5:4, March 2004, is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ5i4.pdf The 22-page issue is PDF, as usual--and now requires at least Acrobat Reader 5, since it includes the text-to-speech support and bookmarks added in Acrobat 6 and 7. Download 7: it's faster than 6. Taking Seth Finkelstein's suggestion (for tabloid-style marketing) to heart, here's what's included: * Did NIH back down to Big STM--or was this a reasonable compromise? Library Access to Scholarship * Who gets first-name treatment in C&I? Bibs & Blather * You call this a community? Perspective: The Dangling Conversation * Does anyone care about multichannel sound or ethics? Following Up * Chills, thrills, public-domain flicks Offtopic Perspective: Family Classics 50 Movie Pack, Part 1 * Is a short story a book--and would you read Moby Dick on a cell phone? Ebooks, Etext and PoD Geez, I really suck at coming up with tabloid headlines. This is probably the first and last attempt at this! This issue also has a few more test HTML files--the selective form that may or may not continue. Go to the home page for those selections (which I'll probably leave available permanently): http://cites.boisestate.edu/ From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Feb 24 11:04:30 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: FW: [DDN] seeking civically active bloggers in DC/VA/MD/WV area Message-ID: <20050224160434.B9314570360@frontend2.messagingengine.com> >From the Digital Divide Network; if you think of the answer to this as "my library is in DC metro area and we have a blog for our users," then give Nightline a call. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com -----Original Message----- From: digitaldivide-bounces@milhouse.edc.org [mailto:digitaldivide-bounces@milhouse.edc.org] On Behalf Of Andy Carvin Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:38 AM To: digitaldivide@milhouse.edc.org; wwwedu@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DDN] seeking civically active bloggers in DC/VA/MD/WV area Hi everyone, John Donvan of ABC's Nightline program has asked me if there are any DDN members who are blogging in the greater Washington DC area (including WV, VA and MD) and are using blogging as a tool for civic engagement or positive social change. If this applies to you, or if you know anyone who isn't a DDN member but is doing civic blogging, please email me off-list as soon as possible (ie, this morning DC time if possible) so I can forward your contact information to the appropriate producer at Nightline. thanks, andy ------------------------------------------------- Andy Carvin Program Director EDC Center for Media & Community acarvin @ edc . org http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/ ------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to digitaldivide-request@mailman.edc.org with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. From aneatr01 at ase.tufts.edu Thu Feb 24 11:22:55 2005 From: aneatr01 at ase.tufts.edu (Neatrour, Anna) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] E-mail discussion lists and blogs? Message-ID: <9544C4F568FAB045BA02DD1742602DEB031DFDAC@TFTMEXCH1.tufts.ad.tufts.edu> This wouldn't give a precise measure of audience, but you could get a sense of how many people are reading your blog's feed and compare it with other blogs of the same type. If you have an account at bloglines, you can see how many people are subscribed to any blog using that service. If you were to use a service like feedburner for your blog's feed (http://feedburner.com/fb/a/home), I think you would also be able to get some statistics. This would still only give you numbers on a segment of your audience but might be useful. -Anna Anna Neatrour Coordinator of First-Year Library Instruction Tisch Library Tufts University (617) 627-6207 anna.neatrour@tufts.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Sloan, Bernie Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 5:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] E-mail discussion lists and blogs? There's been some discussion back and forth on this list about using blogs to distribute information rather than posting notes to e-mail discussion lists. Technical/access issues aside, I have a very basic curiosity-type question for those of you out there who maintain your own blogs. Do you have a way to measure how many people are exposed to the info in your blogs? I guess what I am getting at is whether there is any hard information that could be used to measure the "audience" that you are reaching. You can get a general idea with e-mail discussion lists, e.g., a posting to Web4Lib theoretically reaches an "audience" of about 3200 people (i.e., the number of Web4Lib subscribers). How do you tell how big your blog "audience" is? I realize this is probably a na?ve, apples-to-ranges comparison. But I'm curious anyway. :-) Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Feb 24 11:22:50 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: <002e01c51a85$f03f73f0$8e00a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <20050224162254.3D81B570159@frontend2.messagingengine.com> > -- Commencing Rant > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > citations. I've often found that from experience and stories related > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary > information to cite properly...they love to photocopy articles and pages > from books...they almost always forget to copy/write down the > publication information (they do notice at 2am the night before that > they do not have this information). Once they discover they do not have > the info they seem to make one of the following decisions: 1. Fake the > citation; 2. Attribute the information to another source they do have > documentation for; 3. Look up another source and attribute to that; 4. > Omit any type of citation whatsoever. > -- End Rant You mean... this is wrong? (JUST KIDDING ;> ) When I was a grad assistant in a graduate library, 11th-hour citation verifications were a matter of course (almost wrote "curse," which would be apropos). As I work on a long piece with historical background, I feel myself slipping in citationland myself. The Internet has made it easier to find citations, and also to find plagiarists. One thing that intrigues me about Google Print is the ability to track a citation from an older work. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From et at noblenet.org Thu Feb 24 11:45:52 2005 From: et at noblenet.org (Elizabeth Thomsen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: <200502241645.j1OGjqx03519@mail.noblenet.org> In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > citations. I've often found that from experience and stories related > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary > information to cite properly... I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students make up for the deficiencies in their research and notetaking. But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles Ogletree and other well-known authors have had to admit to failings in their published work. I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a biography of Bruno Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority of information found online, but I think we all need to be just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a rigorous fact and citation checking. -- Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange Danvers MA 01923 et@noblenet.org From erwin.patricia at mayo.edu Thu Feb 24 11:46:53 2005 From: erwin.patricia at mayo.edu (Erwin, Patricia J.) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: <23980B9125738448B7A9DA683D764E4004309EF5@excsrv70.mayo.edu> Amen. There are a number of studies in the medical literature than have found an error rate of 15-25% in the bibliographies of peer-reviewed articles in prestigious journals. I have noticed many publishers are requiring the first and last page of each cited reference to be attached to the manuscript. Many years ago, I spent 3 blasphemous months verifying references for a book, many of which were incorrect, incomplete or just plain wrong. Most of the references came from other published work. And as Elizabeth mentions, this doesn't touch on casual plagiarism by scholars who are aware of what they are doing. Patricia J. Erwin aka "Pat" Mayo Clinic College of Medicine Libraries 200 First Street SW Rochester MN 55905 507.284.4952 erwin.patricia@mayo.edu -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Thomsen Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:38 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > citations. I've often found that from experience and stories related > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary > information to cite properly... I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students make up for the deficiencies in their research and notetaking. But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles Ogletree and other well-known authors have had to admit to failings in their published work. I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a biography of Bruno Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority of information found online, but I think we all need to be just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a rigorous fact and citation checking. -- Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange Danvers MA 01923 et@noblenet.org From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Feb 24 11:47:23 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: E-mail discussion lists and blogs? In-Reply-To: <9544C4F568FAB045BA02DD1742602DEB031DFDAC@TFTMEXCH1.tufts.ad.tufts.edu> Message-ID: <20050224164727.977A875E@frontend2.messagingengine.com> Three measurements I use are hits to the actual feed file, overall increase in traffic, and how many Bloglines subscribers. None of these are real measurements of who's reading the feed. However, taken together as a picture, this is useful information. (For my personal feed, I add RSS 1 and RSS 2 subscribers. LII only has one main feed.) If anyone is using an aggregator other than Bloglines that tells you subscriber levels for a particular feed, I'd like to know about it. Again, Bloglines is nowhere near precise in terms of actual numbers (it's only one aggregator's subscribers, who knows if they are reading the feed, etc. etc.), but it's still a fascinating and I think helpful barometer. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From Michael.Yunkin at ccmail.nevada.edu Thu Feb 24 11:48:39 2005 From: Michael.Yunkin at ccmail.nevada.edu (Michael.Yunkin@ccmail.nevada.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: >>>But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy and >>>ill-prepared undergraduates... I also blame the lazy professors. My Music History prof assigned everyone in the class vastly different topics for research papers, and as part of the assignment, we had to hand in our papers, photocopies or printouts of all of the articles we used in our bibliographies, and all of the books we used (yes, the actual books). I remember having to make 2 trips to turn in the assignment--one for all the papers and one for the 12 or so library books I had cited. He checked citations in about a week, and graded the papers in about a month--not bad for 25+ students. -Michael |---------+-----------------------------> | | Elizabeth Thomsen | | | | | | Sent by: | | | web4lib@sunsite3.b| | | erkeley.edu | | | | | | | | | 02/24/2005 08:37 | | | AM | | | Please respond to | | | et | | | | |---------+-----------------------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Multiple recipients of list | | cc: | | Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > citations. I've often found that from experience and stories related > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary > information to cite properly... I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students make up for the deficiencies in their research and notetaking. But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles Ogletree and other well-known authors have had to admit to failings in their published work. I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a biography of Bruno Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority of information found online, but I think we all need to be just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a rigorous fact and citation checking. -- Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange Danvers MA 01923 et@noblenet.org From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Feb 24 11:50:35 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: I guess the answer to my original question is "no." it looks like there is no open source for what I am asking. I wonder why. Another mutating conversation that is much more interesting than the original message. Bill Drew From T.Hammond at nature.com Thu Feb 24 11:59:23 2005 From: T.Hammond at nature.com (Hammond, Tony) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: <125F7834E11A5741A7D79412EE3504F90F26D082@UK1APPS2.nature.com> Hi All: This may not be immediately relevant to this thread but Connotea (http://www.connnotea.org/), the free online reference management service for scientists created by Nature Publishing Group, returns citation metadata from authoritative sources wherever it can when references or links are bookmarked. Currently Nature.com, PubMed, Amazon.com, and D-Lib Magazine are supported although we are extending support to other services. The citation metadata is returned both in string format (could be changed if required) and in structured format - RSS - although we are also looking to support RIS and other reference manager formats. As an example, if the following link were saved in Connotea http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui ds=12632249&dopt=Abstract the following info is displayed: # Preferential effects of the cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist, SR 141716, on food intake and body weight gain of obese (fa/fa) compared to lean Zucker rats. (info|copy) S P Vickers et al. Psychopharmacology (Berl) 167 (1), 103-11 (01 Apr 2003) PMID: 12632249 | doi:10.1007/s00213-002-1384-8 Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:54 As another example, if this link is saved http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v410/n6830/a bs/410822a0_fs.html&dynoptions=doi1109257896 Then the following info is displayed: # Leptin-regulated endocannabinoids are involved in maintaining food intake (info|copy) Vincenzo Di Marzo et al. Nature 410 (6830), 822 - 825 (12 Apr 2001) Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:56 Both of these display formats can be retieved in structured format - RSS for now, RIS later. We would appreciate any feedback in how we could usefully develop this service. Cheers, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Thomsen > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:37 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > > citations. I've often found that from experience and > stories related > > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the necessary > > information to cite properly... > > I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the > overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students > make up for the > deficiencies in their research and notetaking. > > But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy > and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should > remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent > years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles > Ogletree and other well-known authors have had > to admit to failings in their published work. > > I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a > biography of Bruno > Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point > of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt > deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! > > Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority > of information found online, but I think we all need to be > just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not > assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a > rigorous fact and citation checking. > > -- > Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager > NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange > Danvers MA 01923 > et@noblenet.org > > ******************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its agents. Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this e-mail or its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication. Macmillan Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered number 785998 Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS ******************************************************************************** From kwangsoohan at mail.und.nodak.edu Thu Feb 24 12:05:18 2005 From: kwangsoohan at mail.und.nodak.edu (Kwangsoo Han) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: link resolver server - purchase or in-house? Message-ID: <01b901c51a93$04bbfa30$30c18186@khan> This topic might have been discussed before, but I really would like to hear your experiences. These days a few companies offer a link resolver system based on 'openURL.' Has anyone set up and managed your own production-level 'link resolver server' in your library rather than purchasing? I remember I have read a magazine article saying that it is easy to do that because of the flexibility and easiness of 'openURL', but I wonder HOW EASY it would be. I encountered an open-source openURL resolver called 'OLinks' (http://olinks.sourceforge.net/). Has anybody have experience with that? Thanks a lot, Kwangsoo ************************************************ Kwangsoo Han Web Services Librarian Chester Fritz Library, http://www.library.und.edu University of North Dakota ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From MWatso at lsuhsc.edu Thu Feb 24 12:29:18 2005 From: MWatso at lsuhsc.edu (Watson, Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: proxy logons and "remember my password" in IE Message-ID: Greetings, I've run into a problem, and am hoping that someone has already come up with a solution they'd be willing to share. Our campus IT people are soon going to require all Internet access, even from on-campus, to go validate through a proxy server. My concern is that the authentication logon requester in Internet Explorer 6 includes a "remember my password" checkbox. In our computer labs, I would like to be able to remove "remember my password", in order to prevent someone from absent-mindedly checking it, and perhaps permitting the next person who stepped up to the user to logon with their saved credentials by simply clicking "OK". I've hunted around for a way to do this, and so far have come up empty. The various options under "Internet Options->Content->AutoComplete" appear to apply only to the forms that are embedded in web pages, not the popup authentication requester for proxy_auth. IE 5 had a registry setting for "NoSubscriptionPasswords" that might have worked, but I can't find any documentation that it is supported in IE 6. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that the "remember my password" prompt is coming from IE, not from squid. Is anyone aware of a method to remove "Remember my password" from IE 6 proxy_auth login prompts? Thanks, Mike Watson LSU Health Sciences Center - Shreveport mwatso@lsuhsc.edu ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Feb 24 12:57:55 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] link resolver server - purchase or in-house? In-Reply-To: <01b901c51a93$04bbfa30$30c18186@khan> References: <01b901c51a93$04bbfa30$30c18186@khan> Message-ID: <421E15A3.9020202@ohiolink.edu> Kwangsoo Han wrote: > This topic might have been discussed before, but I really would like to hear your experiences. > > These days a few companies offer a link resolver system based on 'openURL.' > Has anyone set up and managed your own production-level 'link resolver server' in your library rather than purchasing? > I remember I have read a magazine article saying that it is easy to do that because of the flexibility and easiness of 'openURL', but I wonder HOW EASY it would be. > > I encountered an open-source openURL resolver called 'OLinks' (http://olinks.sourceforge.net/). Has anybody have experience with that? > I do - I wrote it. And the moral of the story is that if *I* can write a piece of software, it isn't exactly rocket science. (Getting it cleanly separated from our own inner workings for distribution on sourceforge is substantially trickier, and still not completely done.) My experience is that purchasing a commercial resolver gets you two main things: a relatively simple database application, and a pre-populated database of your e-journal subscriptions for the application to work with*. OhioLINK was in the unusual position of having very tight administrative control over our e-journals, so for us populating that database was easy and it didn't make sense to pay a big ticket price for the application. In your case you'll need to weigh the job of organizing your data against the cost of a commercial resolver. (*I'm probably oversimplifying. I know at least one vendor of resolver tools reads the list, so you may get some clarification and expansion on this.) -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From Tim_Bucknall at uncg.edu Thu Feb 24 13:05:53 2005 From: Tim_Bucknall at uncg.edu (Tim Bucknall BUCKNALL) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] link resolver server - purchase or in-house? In-Reply-To: <01b901c51a93$04bbfa30$30c18186@khan> Message-ID: I believe that the University of North Carolina at Greensboro (UNCG) probably has one of the more fully featured locally developed link resolvers - Journal Finder. We set it up several years ago when SFX was in beta and initial quotes sounded as if SFX would cost us 10s of thousands of dollars. Over the years, competition has driven the prices of link resolvers down somewhat, so it makes less sense to develop your own. Frankly, the only way UNCG has been able to justify maintaining Journal Finder instead of going with a large commercial product is that we've spread the cost of its development and support across 25 universities and colleges that now use it. It just wouldn't make economic sense to bear that cost on our own. My perspective as someone who has built their own resolver and run it for years is that it is almost certainly not cost effective to run one by yourself for yourself, but if you can gather enough partners to achieve economies of scale and share the costs, then it might be worth it in some instances. Tim Bucknall Assistant Director - Jackson Library Head, Information Technologies and Electronic Resources 336-256-1216 bucknall@uncg.edu Kwangsoo Han Sent by: web4lib@webjunction.org 02/24/2005 12:15 PM Please respond to kwangsoohan@mail.und.nodak.edu To Multiple recipients of list cc Subject [WEB4LIB] link resolver server - purchase or in-house? This topic might have been discussed before, but I really would like to hear your experiences. These days a few companies offer a link resolver system based on 'openURL.' Has anyone set up and managed your own production-level 'link resolver server' in your library rather than purchasing? I remember I have read a magazine article saying that it is easy to do that because of the flexibility and easiness of 'openURL', but I wonder HOW EASY it would be. I encountered an open-source openURL resolver called 'OLinks' ( http://olinks.sourceforge.net/). Has anybody have experience with that? Thanks a lot, Kwangsoo ************************************************ Kwangsoo Han Web Services Librarian Chester Fritz Library, http://www.library.und.edu University of North Dakota ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Thu Feb 24 13:36:32 2005 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFB7@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> Sounds interesting. I haven't tried it yet, but, just out of curiousity, could this tool be expanded to create citation based on OpenURL? Or is it already possible? ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Hammond, Tony > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:02 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > Hi All: > > This may not be immediately relevant to this thread but Connotea > (http://www.connnotea.org/), the free online reference management service > for scientists created by Nature Publishing Group, returns citation metadata > from authoritative sources wherever it can when references or links are > bookmarked. Currently Nature.com, PubMed, Amazon.com, and D-Lib Magazine are > supported although we are extending support to other services. The citation > metadata is returned both in string format (could be changed if required) > and in structured format - RSS - although we are also looking to support RIS > and other reference manager formats. > > As an example, if the following link were saved in Connotea > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db= > PubMed&list_ui > ds=12632249&dopt=Abstract > > the following info is displayed: > > # Preferential effects of the cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist, SR > 141716, on food intake and body weight gain of obese (fa/fa) compared to > lean Zucker rats. (info|copy) > S P Vickers et al. > Psychopharmacology (Berl) 167 (1), 103-11 (01 Apr 2003) > PMID: 12632249 | doi:10.1007/s00213-002-1384-8 > Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:54 > > As another example, if this link is saved > > http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journa > l/v410/n6830/abs/410822a0_fs.html&dynoptions=doi1109257896 > > Then the following info is displayed: > > # Leptin-regulated endocannabinoids are involved in > maintaining food intake > (info|copy) > Vincenzo Di Marzo et al. > Nature 410 (6830), 822 - 825 (12 Apr 2001) > Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:56 > > Both of these display formats can be retieved in structured > format - RSS for now, RIS later. > > We would appreciate any feedback in how we could usefully develop this > service. > > Cheers, > > Tony > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of > Elizabeth Thomsen > > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:37 > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > > > > In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > > > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > > > citations. I've often found that from experience and > > stories related > > > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the > necessary > > > information to cite properly... > > > > I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the > > overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students > > make up for the > > deficiencies in their research and notetaking. > > > > But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy > > and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should > > remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent > > years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles > > Ogletree and other well-known authors have had > > to admit to failings in their published work. > > > > I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a > > biography of Bruno > > Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point > > of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt > > deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! > > > > Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority > > of information found online, but I think we all need to be > > just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not > > assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a > > rigorous fact and citation checking. > > > > -- > > Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager > > NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange > > Danvers MA 01923 > > et@noblenet.org > > > > > > ************************************************************** > ****************** > DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be > used by anyone who is > not the original intended recipient. If you have received > this e-mail in error > please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or > any other storage > mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of > its agents accept > liability for any statements made which are clearly the > sender's own and not > expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or > one of its agents. > Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any > of its agents > accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained > in this e-mail or > its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and > attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf > of Macmillan > Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail > communication. Macmillan > Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with > registered number 785998 > Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS > ************************************************************** > ****************** > > > From ross.singer at library.gatech.edu Thu Feb 24 14:12:59 2005 From: ross.singer at library.gatech.edu (Ross Singer) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFB7@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> References: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFB7@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> Message-ID: <1570.168.24.83.79.1109272379.squirrel@168.24.83.79> Todd Holbrook's Citation Manager (http://stalefish.lib.sfu.ca/CitationManager/) will accept OpenURLs. Its display isn't as sophisticated as Connotea (or CiteUlike: http://www.citeulike.org), but, it being OSS, could conceivably be modified to look like anything you want. I have it running in development here, and while I may not ultimately go live with it, it has given me pretty good insight as to what a web citation manager can and should do, as well as the inherent limitations of web citation management plus its advantages. -Ross. On Thu, February 24, 2005 1:38 pm, Junus, Ranti said: > Sounds interesting. I haven't tried it yet, but, just out of > curiousity, could this tool be expanded to create citation based > on OpenURL? Or is it already possible? > > > ranti. > > -- > Ranti Junus - Systems > 100 Main Library W441 > Michigan State University > East Lansing, MI 48824, USA > +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 > +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: web4lib@webjunction.org >> [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Hammond, Tony >> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? >> >> >> Hi All: >> >> This may not be immediately relevant to this thread but Connotea >> (http://www.connnotea.org/), the free online reference >> management service >> for scientists created by Nature Publishing Group, returns >> citation metadata >> from authoritative sources wherever it can when references or >> links are >> bookmarked. Currently Nature.com, PubMed, Amazon.com, and D-Lib >> Magazine are >> supported although we are extending support to other services. >> The citation >> metadata is returned both in string format (could be changed if >> required) >> and in structured format - RSS - although we are also looking to >> support RIS >> and other reference manager formats. >> >> As an example, if the following link were saved in Connotea >> >> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db= >> PubMed&list_ui >> ds=12632249&dopt=Abstract >> >> the following info is displayed: >> >> # Preferential effects of the cannabinoid CB1 receptor >> antagonist, SR >> 141716, on food intake and body weight gain of obese (fa/fa) >> compared to >> lean Zucker rats. (info|copy) >> S P Vickers et al. >> Psychopharmacology (Berl) 167 (1), 103-11 (01 Apr 2003) >> PMID: 12632249 | doi:10.1007/s00213-002-1384-8 >> Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:54 >> >> As another example, if this link is saved >> >> http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journa >> l/v410/n6830/abs/410822a0_fs.html&dynoptions=doi1109257896 >> >> Then the following info is displayed: >> >> # Leptin-regulated endocannabinoids are involved in >> maintaining food intake >> (info|copy) >> Vincenzo Di Marzo et al. >> Nature 410 (6830), 822 - 825 (12 Apr 2001) >> Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:56 >> >> Both of these display formats can be retieved in structured >> format - RSS for now, RIS later. >> >> We would appreciate any feedback in how we could usefully >> develop this >> service. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tony >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: web4lib@webjunction.org >> > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of >> Elizabeth Thomsen >> > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:37 >> > To: Multiple recipients of list >> > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? >> > >> > >> > In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: >> > > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that >> is >> > > citations. I've often found that from experience and >> > stories related >> > > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the >> necessary >> > > information to cite properly... >> > >> > I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the >> > overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students >> > make up for the >> > deficiencies in their research and notetaking. >> > >> > But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy >> > and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should >> > remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent >> > years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles >> > Ogletree and other well-known authors have had >> > to admit to failings in their published work. >> > >> > I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a >> > biography of Bruno >> > Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point >> > of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt >> > deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! >> > >> > Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority >> > of information found online, but I think we all need to be >> > just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not >> > assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a >> > rigorous fact and citation checking. >> > >> > -- >> > Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager >> > NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange >> > Danvers MA 01923 >> > et@noblenet.org >> > >> > >> >> ************************************************************** >> ****************** >> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be >> used by anyone who is >> not the original intended recipient. If you have received >> this e-mail in error >> please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or >> any other storage >> mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of >> its agents accept >> liability for any statements made which are clearly the >> sender's own and not >> expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or >> one of its agents. >> Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any >> of its agents >> accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained >> in this e-mail or >> its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail >> and >> attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf >> of Macmillan >> Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail >> communication. Macmillan >> Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with >> registered number 785998 >> Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS >> ************************************************************** >> ****************** >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This email was composed using the GTEL Webmail client. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or priviledged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Georgia Tech Library and Information Center http://www.library.gatech.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From athena at mail.ucf.edu Thu Feb 24 15:29:01 2005 From: athena at mail.ucf.edu (Athena Hoeppner) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] link resolver server - purchase or in-house? Message-ID: Hi, I see that you already had replies about O-Links and Journal Finder. You might also want to contact Kevin Stranack, kstranac@sfu.ca. about GODOT/CUFTS. I believe that GetCopy/Balsa was written in-house at EDINA. I have Tim R Stickland T.R.Stickland@ed.ac.uk as the contact for GetCopy. TCLinker was also developed in-house. I don't have contact info for it. Athena Athena Hoeppner Electronic Resources Librarian athena@mail.ucf.edu (407)823-5049 >>> Kwangsoo Han 24/Feb/05 12:15 >>> This topic might have been discussed before, but I really would like to hear your experiences. These days a few companies offer a link resolver system based on 'openURL.' Has anyone set up and managed your own production-level 'link resolver server' in your library rather than purchasing? I remember I have read a magazine article saying that it is easy to do that because of the flexibility and easiness of 'openURL', but I wonder HOW EASY it would be. I encountered an open-source openURL resolver called 'OLinks' (http://olinks.sourceforge.net/). Has anybody have experience with that? Thanks a lot, Kwangsoo ************************************************ Kwangsoo Han Web Services Librarian Chester Fritz Library, http://www.library.und.edu University of North Dakota ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Thu Feb 24 15:47:13 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421E3D51.2070308@kcoyle.net> The "why" isn't all that hard to answer, I don't think. It's complicated, and actually difficult to do because of the great range of citation "standards" and the even greater range of formatting of bibliographic data that needs to be used for citations. One of the things we desperately need is a standard citation "markup" that can be used to generate the textual citations. As it is, every indexing database, every document type, uses different fields, and some of them use no markup of individual elements. So a citation like this:

Alonso, Ana M. "The Effects of Truth: Re-Presentations of the Past and the Imagining of Community." Journal of Historical Sociology 1, no. 1 (1988): 33–57.

in some other system might be presented as: AU Alonso, Ana M TI The Effects of Truth: etc JO J of Hist Soc VO 1 NO 1 DT 1988 PP 33-57 And in yet another would be:

Alonso, Ana M. "The Effects of Truth: Re-Presentations of the Past and the Imagining of Community." Journal of Historical Sociology 1, no. 1 (1988): 33/57.

Making sense out of all of these in order to get them into a database is quite a chore. Then you have to store the data in such a way that you can derive any number of display formats. If nothing else we need a standard markup for data elements along with an identifier saying what format they think they are representing (APA, MLA, etc.). The big job that folks like Endnote do is that they have separate parsing routines for hundreds of different input formats. kc Drew, Bill wrote: >I guess the answer to my original question is "no." it looks like there >is no open source for what I am asking. I wonder why. Another mutating >conversation that is much more interesting than the original message. > >Bill Drew > > > > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Thu Feb 24 17:07:46 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: FREE EDUCAUSE E-Book on Net Gen Students Message-ID: This looks like a must read for all of us!! I just read the introduction and it is excellent. Bill Drew -----Original Message----- From: SUNY Librarians Association [mailto:SUNYLA-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU] On Behalf Of Hatch, Carey Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:40 PM To: SUNYLA-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: FW: [CNI-ANNOUNCE] EDUCAUSE E-Book on Net Gen Students FYI - This is a forwarded message from the CNI-Announce listserv. Carey Hatch SUNY OLIS -----Original Message----- From: CNI-ANNOUNCE -- News from the Coalition [mailto:CNI-ANNOUNCE@cni.org] On Behalf Of Joan K. Lippincott Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:35 PM To: CNI-ANNOUNCE -- News from the Coalition Subject: [CNI-ANNOUNCE] EDUCAUSE E-Book on Net Gen Students EDUCAUSE has announced the availability of a new e-book, in which I have a chapter on Net Generation Students and Libraries. The book is available at: http://www.educause.edu/educatingthenetgen/ Joan Lippincott ------- Educating the Net Generation, a new EDUCAUSE e-book, will help you understand the unique characteristics of Net Gen students and their implications for your institution in such areas as instruction, service, learning space, faculty development, and curriculum. The e-book-edited by Diana G. Oblinger, vice president of EDUCAUSE and director of the National Learning Infrastructure Initiative (NLII), and James L. Oblinger, chancellor of North Carolina State University-is available online in PDF and HTML formats. It is downloadable in its entirety or chapter by chapter-as are a variety of related multimedia resources-at no charge. ------- Joan K. Lippincott, Ph.D. Associate Executive Director Coalition for Networked Information 21 Dupont Circle, Suite 800 Washington, DC 20036 202-296-5098 202-872-0884 (Fax) joan@cni.org www.cni.org From kgs at bluehighways.com Thu Feb 24 18:38:37 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Message-ID: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> (Note: based on the December traffic, I think most of the discussion actually happened on Web4Lib, not blogs.) http://tinyurl.com/5ujgt In which we learn, in a response to blog entries critiquing Gorman's December 2004 L.A. Times article about Google Print, that the library blogging community is uneducated, fanatical, and obtuse. "[The] Blog People (or their subclass who are interested in computers and the glorification of information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics who do not share that belief. ..." "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. ..." Nice. Really nice. Good use of the ALA presidential bully pulpit. No citations, of course. K.G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From paula at edmiston.org Thu Feb 24 18:57:34 2005 From: paula at edmiston.org (paula edmiston) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421E69EE.4030408@edmiston.org> Drew, Bill wrote: > I guess the answer to my original question is "no." it looks like there > is no open source for what I am asking. I wonder why. Another mutating > conversation that is much more interesting than the original message. Do you want them to fill out the form and then it, the program, will present the correct formatting onscreen so they can then copy/paste it? The form could be on a web page? I guess the form would have multiple parts, right? One section for books, one section for journals, etc. That would be a big form. Maybe first have a page with a list of resource types, click a link for a page with a fill out form for book, another link to open a page for journals, etc. I'm interested. I'm a little bit discouraged by the large number of resource formats, print and digital. If someone would like to work with me, we could go over to Sourceforge and make it. I could write the php code to generate the formatted result if someone would like to work with me and help make the fill-out form pages for the data entry part. best, paula paula@edmiston.org http://paula.edmiston.org/ -------------------------------------------------> Cavemen froze to death on a bed of coal. - Arthur Clarke <------------------------------------------------- From ashkev at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 20:23:02 2005 From: ashkev at gmail.com (kevin smith) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> References: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Just thought I would share this blog entry with the list: http://ashkev.weblogs.us/archives/025631.html Response to ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Michael Gorman, I was very upset to see your recent comments on "Blog People." While I agree with much of what you have to say about Google Print and funding library services, I was very disappointed to see you berate an entire class of librarians who, you say, you know very little about. Those of us who blog have varied interests, backgrounds, educational backgrounds and viewpoints on nearly every issue. Criticizing the "Blog People" is akin to criticizing "Television People." Shall we put Robert McNeil and Jerry Springer in the same category? After all they both work in the same medium. Are the Wall Street Journal and the National Enquirer equivalent because they both publish newspapers? It is as if I said "based on the few graphic novels I have read, the authors are incapable of writing anything of substance," while ignoring the works of Art Spiegelman and Chris Ware. Your comments are format-bias, clear and simple, and are inappropriate from an elected officer of the nation's largest professional library association. There are some fine library blogs out there. I would recommend that you take a look at a few of them before attacking a large and growing section of the library and information science population. You wrote "?I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts." This is inaccurate and unkind. Most of the bloggers that I know are dedicated professional who read as mach about their profession as they can. Many have also written books, journal articles, and have presented at major conferences. In my experience, it is rare to find a recent Library School Graduate who is not keeping a blog. I hope that you will reevaluate your snap judgment of bloggers and offer an apology to the many hard working dedicated librarians who maintain blogs, and who supported your candidacy as ALA president. (Theses opinions are my own. I am not speaking on behalf of the Cass District Library.) Kevin Smith Assistant Director Cass District Library 1-269-445-3400 X 31 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:41:20 -0800 (PST), K.G. Schneider wrote: > (Note: based on the December traffic, I think most of the discussion > actually happened on Web4Lib, not blogs.) > > http://tinyurl.com/5ujgt > > In which we learn, in a response to blog entries critiquing Gorman's > December 2004 L.A. Times article about Google Print, that the library > blogging community is uneducated, fanatical, and obtuse. "[The] Blog People > (or their subclass who are interested in computers and the glorification of > information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of > digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics who do > not share that belief. ..." > > "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that > many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex > texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an > accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. ..." > > Nice. Really nice. Good use of the ALA presidential bully pulpit. No > citations, of course. > > > K.G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > From rsinger at linc.lib.il.us Thu Feb 24 20:36:19 2005 From: rsinger at linc.lib.il.us (Rachel Singer Gordon) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the Message-ID: <380-22005252513619490@linc.lib.il.us> It's consistent with other things Gorman has said -- I ran across this statement in his recent "Our Own Selves," which I made note of because it was just so extreme: ?Unfortunately, if there are writers of genius, or talent, or even basic competence out there blogging, I have yet to find them. In the early heady days of the Internet, we were promised that, in the future, everyone could be published. Alas, that promise is being fulfilled, which should remind us all to be wary of what we wish for? (Our Own Selves: More Meditations for Librarians. Chicago: ALA, 2005: 208). - Rachel >(Note: based on the December traffic, I think most of the discussion >actually happened on Web4Lib, not blogs.) > >http://tinyurl.com/5ujgt > >In which we learn, in a response to blog entries critiquing Gorman's >December 2004 L.A. Times article about Google Print, that the library >blogging community is uneducated, fanatical, and obtuse. "[The] Blog >People >(or their subclass who are interested in computers and the >glorification of >information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of >digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics >who do >not share that belief. ..." > >"Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt >that >many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of >complex >texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met >by an >accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. ..." > >Nice. Really nice. Good use of the ALA presidential bully pulpit. No >citations, of course. > > >K.G. Schneider >kgs@bluehighways.com --- Rachel Singer Gordon / rsinger@linc.lib.il.us http://www.franklinparklibrary.org http://www.lisjobs.com --- From greg.schwartz at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 21:31:11 2005 From: greg.schwartz at gmail.com (Greg Schwartz) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> References: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Has anyone had any luck finding the source of the "Michael Gorman is an idiot" quote? Greg Schwartz http://openstacks.net/os On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:46:38 -0800 (PST), > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 12 > > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:38:37 -0800 > From: "K.G. Schneider" > To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" > Subject: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" > Message-ID: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > > (Note: based on the December traffic, I think most of the discussion > actually happened on Web4Lib, not blogs.) > > http://tinyurl.com/5ujgt > > In which we learn, in a response to blog entries critiquing Gorman's > December 2004 L.A. Times article about Google Print, that the library > blogging community is uneducated, fanatical, and obtuse. "[The] Blog People > (or their subclass who are interested in computers and the glorification of > information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of > digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics who do > not share that belief. ..." > > "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that > many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex > texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an > accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. ..." > > Nice. Really nice. Good use of the ALA presidential bully pulpit. No > citations, of course. > > K.G. Schneider > kgs@bluehighways.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of WEB4LIB Digest 3654 > ************************** > From umassdlcc at umassd.edu Fri Feb 25 00:00:14 2005 From: umassdlcc at umassd.edu (Char!ie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: Cookies the issue it seems: Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox Message-ID: <20050225050015.DJMB5415.lakermmtao08.cox.net@LIBCMcNeil> Thanks to all who replied. It seems thus far that the problem appears to be with cookies. If you clear the cookies in FireFox or Netscape (same problems with both), the problem goes away in EBSCO (see problem below). However, it can come right back again next time you try a similar type of search. If fact, one way to recreate the problem is to try the search described below and then quit Firefox. Restart Firefox, redo the search and this message appears in a popup box: "the document contains no data" fairly consistently. But if you clear the cookies and redo the search again, it works fine. Now, how to get this word out to our Firefox and Netscape users each time they search EBSCO.... Thanks again - char!ie -----Original Message----- From: Char!ie [mailto:umassdlcc@umassd.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:00 PM To: 'web4lib@webjunction.org' Subject: Reported EBSCO database problems with Firefox Today one our reference librarians told me they have been having problems with EBSCO databases and Firefox. For example, when they click on an article title in a results list from an Advanced Search in either CINAHL or Inspect a pop-up box appears stating "the document contains no data". So no detailed citation/abstract is displayed. Also, if you try to add citations to a "folder" within these EBSCO databases and choose "folder has items" the same pop-up appears. All of the above seems to work fine in IE. One of our librarians tried to troubleshoot this with EBSCO with the last response being: "..It seems there is a common problem with everyone across the board from Yahoo to EBSCO with Mozilla, Firefox or Netscape and Tech Support suggested using Internet Explorer to see if it resolved the problem. ." We have recently switched half of our workstations to Firefox to test it out. Other than this problem we have received no other reported problems. However, some librarians are suggesting we switch the browser back to IE from Firefox. I said this might be a temporary solution, but that it would not help our users that use other browsers from home or other places on campus. Have others experience this problem with Firefox? I looked through the list and only saw problems reported related to ActiveX. Thoughts? charlie mcneil systems & digital services librarian umass dartmouth library (508) 999-8680 cmcneil@umassd.edu From bardsley at u.washington.edu Fri Feb 25 01:44:43 2005 From: bardsley at u.washington.edu (bardsley@u.washington.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? In-Reply-To: <421E69EE.4030408@edmiston.org> Message-ID: Below is a URL to a citation engine: http://www.oslis.k12.or.us/citeintro/nof_citesession.php? I was recently made responsible for the website and am going to redesign the entire site and make adjustments to the citation engine in due time. There are others out there but this, at least, gives you an idea of what one looks like. Mark Bardsley On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, paula edmiston wrote: > Drew, Bill wrote: > >> I guess the answer to my original question is "no." it looks like there >> is no open source for what I am asking. I wonder why. Another mutating >> conversation that is much more interesting than the original message. > > > Do you want them to fill out the form and then it, the program, will > present the correct formatting onscreen so they can then copy/paste it? > The form could be on a web page? I guess the form would have multiple > parts, right? One section for books, one section for journals, etc. That > would be a big form. Maybe first have a page with a list of resource > types, click a link for a page with a fill out form for book, another > link to open a page for journals, etc. > > I'm interested. I'm a little bit discouraged by the large number of > resource formats, print and digital. If someone would like to work with > me, we could go over to Sourceforge and make it. I could write the php > code to generate the formatted result if someone would like to work with > me and help make the fill-out form pages for the data entry part. > > > best, > paula > > > paula@edmiston.org > http://paula.edmiston.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------> > Cavemen froze to death on a bed of coal. > - Arthur Clarke > <------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From John.Creech at cwu.EDU Fri Feb 25 02:37:07 2005 From: John.Creech at cwu.EDU (John Creech) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> References: <20050224233841.8B1E425599@frontend3.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20050224230830.D2403@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> > "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that > many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex > texts." Via TiVo I just caught last night's Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart on Comedy Central. Peter Jennings was his guest. Peter Jennings reads blogs. So does Jon Stewart. So do I. Gee, Gorman must be smarter than all three of us. What a burden it must be when your beatific words fail so thoroughly to convince the fanatics lurking behind those ones and zeros. I live with continual and myriad voices in my head--as John Fogerty says, "Deja vu all over again." Right now I'm hearing lyrics from a Lyle Lovett song called "The Road to Ensenada": "You can offer to the righteous the good that you have won But down here among the unclean your good work just comes undone." We have failed you, Mr. Gorman. We are unclean. We are not worthy. Does anyone know if one may cancel their ALA membership and get a pro-rated refund? I just p!ssed away a hundred and eighty dollars. john creech From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Fri Feb 25 08:39:56 2005 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFCC@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> *chuckle* Oh well, somebody please point him into a right direction... I guess, if he think all bloger out there are so, um, worthless, then he better set up one himself to educate the rest of us. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Rachel > Singer Gordon > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:34 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the > > > It's consistent with other things Gorman has said -- I ran across > this statement in his recent "Our Own Selves," which I made note of > because it was just so extreme: > > "Unfortunately, if there are writers of genius, or talent, or even > basic competence out there blogging, I have yet to find them. In the > early heady days of the Internet, we were promised that, in the > future, everyone could be published. Alas, that promise is being > fulfilled, which should remind us all to be wary of what we wish for" > (Our Own Selves: More Meditations for Librarians. Chicago: ALA, 2005: > 208). > > - Rachel > From bollingers at cadl.org Fri Feb 25 08:40:16 2005 From: bollingers at cadl.org (Bollinger,Stephen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Message-ID: Just a little humor to temper the (deservedly) righteous indignation over this, I found the following snippet in the Slashdot comments regarding our dear president-elect: "I think what he _actually_ meant to say was something along the lines of: 'A blog is a species of interactive electronic diary by means of which the unpublishable -- except for ALA literary award winners such as Orson Scott Card [ornery.org] or Neil Gaiman [neilgaiman.com] or Sherwood Smith [livejournal.com] or David Brin [blogspot.com] or Jane Yolen [janeyolen.com] or Dianne Duane [blogspot.com] or, oh, bugger, you know, all those other ALA award-winning authors who also blog, not that I want to imply that ALA award-winning librarians who blog, like Kathleen de la Pe?a McCook [blogspot.com], are bad either, and oh, yeah, I definitely don't want to seem to be criticizing PLABlog [plablog.org], the brand new blog of the Public Library Association [pla.org], especially not when we put out a nifty little press release [ala.org] crowing about it, just last month, because that would look pretty stupid, now, wouldn't it -- er, um, what was I saying, again?'" -Ray Raedlin in http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140584&cid=11775329 Yours, -Steve Stephen Bollinger Internet Specialist CAPITAL AREA DISTRICT LIBRARY 401 South Capitol Avenue Lansing, MI 48901-7919 http://www.cadl.org/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" (Note: based on the December traffic, I think most of the discussion actually happened on Web4Lib, not blogs.) http://tinyurl.com/5ujgt In which we learn, in a response to blog entries critiquing Gorman's December 2004 L.A. Times article about Google Print, that the library blogging community is uneducated, fanatical, and obtuse. "[The] Blog People (or their subclass who are interested in computers and the glorification of information) have a fanatical belief in the transforming power of digitization and a consequent horror of, and contempt for, heretics who do not share that belief. ..." "Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. ..." Nice. Really nice. Good use of the ALA presidential bully pulpit. No citations, of course. K.G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From T.Hammond at nature.com Fri Feb 25 09:21:44 2005 From: T.Hammond at nature.com (Hammond, Tony) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? Message-ID: <125F7834E11A5741A7D79412EE3504F90F26D093@UK1APPS2.nature.com> Hi Ranti: Yes, OpenURL is one of the features we are looking into supporting with Connotea. Cheers, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Junus, Ranti > Sent: 24 February 2005 18:38 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > Sounds interesting. I haven't tried it yet, but, just out of > curiousity, could this tool be expanded to create citation > based on OpenURL? Or is it already possible? > > > ranti. > > -- > Ranti Junus - Systems > 100 Main Library W441 > Michigan State University > East Lansing, MI 48824, USA > +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 > +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Hammond, Tony > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:02 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > > > > Hi All: > > > > This may not be immediately relevant to this thread but Connotea > > (http://www.connnotea.org/), the free online reference management > > service for scientists created by Nature Publishing Group, returns > > citation metadata from authoritative sources wherever it can when > > references or links are bookmarked. Currently Nature.com, PubMed, > > Amazon.com, and D-Lib Magazine are supported although we > are extending > > support to other services. The citation metadata is > returned both in > > string format (could be changed if required) and in > structured format > > - RSS - although we are also looking to support RIS and other > > reference manager formats. > > > > As an example, if the following link were saved in Connotea > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db= > > PubMed&list_ui > > ds=12632249&dopt=Abstract > > > > the following info is displayed: > > > > # Preferential effects of the cannabinoid CB1 receptor > antagonist, SR > > 141716, on food intake and body weight gain of obese > (fa/fa) compared > > to lean Zucker rats. (info|copy) S P Vickers et al. > > Psychopharmacology (Berl) 167 (1), 103-11 (01 Apr 2003) > > PMID: 12632249 | doi:10.1007/s00213-002-1384-8 > > Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:54 > > > > As another example, if this link is saved > > > > http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journa > > l/v410/n6830/abs/410822a0_fs.html&dynoptions=doi1109257896 > > > > Then the following info is displayed: > > > > # Leptin-regulated endocannabinoids are involved in > > maintaining food intake > > (info|copy) > > Vincenzo Di Marzo et al. > > Nature 410 (6830), 822 - 825 (12 Apr 2001) > > Posted by ubali1 to CB1_invivo_POC on Thu Feb 24 2005 at 14:56 > > > > Both of these display formats can be retieved in structured > > format - RSS for now, RIS later. > > > > We would appreciate any feedback in how we could usefully > develop this > > service. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tony > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > > > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of > > Elizabeth Thomsen > > > Sent: 24 February 2005 16:37 > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Citation creation code? > > > > > > > > > In response to Steve's citation rant, which began this way: > > > > Regarding citations themselves...ahh, the fun territory that is > > > > citations. I've often found that from experience and > > > stories related > > > > from teachers/library staff that students do not have the > > necessary > > > > information to cite properly... > > > > > > I agree with what Steve says, and especially his list of the > > > overly casual if not blatantly dishonest ways that students > > > make up for the > > > deficiencies in their research and notetaking. > > > > > > But though it's easy for us to shake our heads at these lazy > > > and ill-prepared undergraduates (these kids today!) we should > > > remember that this is a problem at all levels. In recent > > > years, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Stephen Ambrose, Charles > > > Ogletree and other well-known authors have had > > > to admit to failings in their published work. > > > > > > I just read Richard Pollak's "The Making of Dr. B.," a > > > biography of Bruno > > > Bettelheim, which is interesting to read just from the point > > > of view of scholarly lapses, failure to cite, and overt > > > deceptions, and how easy it can be to get away with this! > > > > > > Librarians and others worry over the accuracy and authority > > > of information found online, but I think we all need to be > > > just as careful about print resources of all kinds, and not > > > assume that editors and publishers are subjecting texts to a > > > rigorous fact and citation checking. > > > > > > -- > > > Elizabeth Thomsen, Member Services Manager > > > NOBLE: North of Boston Library Exchange > > > Danvers MA 01923 > > > et@noblenet.org > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > ****************** > > DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be > > used by anyone who is > > not the original intended recipient. 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Macmillan Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered number 785998 Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS ******************************************************************************** From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Fri Feb 25 09:23:05 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the In-Reply-To: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFCC@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> References: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFCC@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> Message-ID: <421F34C9.7020808@kcoyle.net> What bothers me most about Gorman's article is the tone of disdain. Librarians are supposed to promote reading and learning and to help people get excited about doing research and enjoying texts that take time and effort. To have the president of the association react to the unlearned (in his view) with snide remarks is not good for the profession. You don't encourage anyone to read by calling them names and treating them as inferior. In a sense, I agree with Gorman's view of blogs -- I don't see them as being the same as news articles from newspapers or magazines, and definitely not the same as a scholarly treatise. I'd like to be able to filter them out of any searches I do on the net when I'm looking for something more substantial. I don't have time to read them, and definitely don't have time to write one. He could have said all that without insulting anyone. -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From wilsona at oclc.org Fri Feb 25 09:39:23 2005 From: wilsona at oclc.org (Wilson,Alane) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the Message-ID: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFED8@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Michael Gorman has said that his article was satire, and I am wondering how that makes the offensive tone of the article any better? Satire is (according to The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language): Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity. So we bloggers are, in his published (and one assumes, edited) opinion, stupid, wicked or foolish. Take your pick. Alane Wilson, MLIS Senior Library Market Consultant Marketing and Library Services OCLC 800-848-5878 x4386 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Karen Coyle Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the What bothers me most about Gorman's article is the tone of disdain. Librarians are supposed to promote reading and learning and to help people get excited about doing research and enjoying texts that take time and effort. To have the president of the association react to the unlearned (in his view) with snide remarks is not good for the profession. You don't encourage anyone to read by calling them names and treating them as inferior. In a sense, I agree with Gorman's view of blogs -- I don't see them as being the same as news articles from newspapers or magazines, and definitely not the same as a scholarly treatise. I'd like to be able to filter them out of any searches I do on the net when I'm looking for something more substantial. I don't have time to read them, and definitely don't have time to write one. He could have said all that without insulting anyone. -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Feb 25 09:51:09 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the Message-ID: I pick wicked. That sounds like more fun. Bill Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Wilson,Alane > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:41 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the > > So we bloggers are, in his published (and one assumes, > edited) opinion, > stupid, wicked or foolish. Take your pick. > > Alane Wilson, MLIS > Senior Library Market Consultant From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Feb 25 09:52:05 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: FW: [ALACOUN:14105] "Blogs" Message-ID: <20050225145212.A860E28689@frontend3.messagingengine.com> This was Michael Gorman?s response, btw. Karen G. Schneider ________________________________________ From: owner-alacoun@ala.org [mailto:owner-alacoun@ala.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gorman Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 5:46 PM To: ALA Council List Subject: [ALACOUN:14105] "Blogs" Dear Colleagues I am sorry that Councillors Hartman?and Schneider feel like that.? The piece (LJ, February 15th 2005) was intended to be satirical, though I am certainly no fan of "blogs," having an old fashioned belief that, if?one wishes to air?one's views and be taken seriously, one should go through the publishing/editing process.? I am surprised that people who attack an article as mine (LAtimes, Dec. 17th 2004) has been attacked should be as thin-skinned as some appear to be. Rest assure that my views on "blogs" have nothing to do with my activities as ALA president-elect or president.? I merely air my views and believe that everyone (including me) has a right to speak in any way they wish and that others have a right to respond. Best wishes, Michael _________________________________________________ Michael Gorman President-elect, American Library Association Madden Library, CSU, Fresno (559) 278-2403 "The best reading, for the largest number, at the least cost" www.michaelgorman.org ? From lists at lisnews.com Fri Feb 25 09:47:59 2005 From: lists at lisnews.com (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:14 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14337.148.144.175.2.1109342879.squirrel@148.144.175.2> A few thoughts from a blog person. Blogs are indeed often unpalatable, and always untrammeled by editors. While he meant this to be insulting (or was it satirical?), us bloggers should be able to admit these are legitimate complaints. Though at the same time these are some of our greatest strengths. There is nothing wrong with people not seeing value in what we do, not everyone will. Most blogs are not great works of literary history, most bloggers are not great writers, but that's not the point. Many of us are simply using our blogs as journals. We share small parts of our lives with our limited number of readers, and that's all we set out to do. Others use our blogs to bring people together and create communities. Much of what we are doing will be lost at some point in the future, but blogs will provide a wonderful window into this time period for historians in the future. Maybe in 50 or 100 years some of the best blogs will be considered classics of this time and medium. Though he provides no reason why it's absurd to give us press credentials, is it so hard for us to believe that someone would think this way? Especially someone who says he believes a computer that is able to search well over 8 billion documents in less than a second is "notoriously inefficient." His response to Google is nothing more than typical librarian thinking that leaves us shackled to vendors that provide us with what WE want, and leave out users hanging in the cold. This line of thinking continues to make us less relevant and expose the ugly curmudgeonly underbelly of our profession that holds back projects that could really help. That's not to say we should be rushing into every crazy new idea out there. But not being able to see the value in what Google does now, and what it'll be capable of in a few years is not just short sighted, it's dangerous for our profession. The funniest part of the entire article was just how much this article was nothing more than a post I'd read on any day @LISNews or any other blog. A post that would probably get moderated as flamebait. Something tells me this did little to stem the tide of email and comments that say "Michael Gorman is an idiot" Worse yet, this will work to alienate more of us from the ALA at a time when they probably don't need to push more people away. This coming from the president is simply terrible PR at the very least, and I'd guess will lead to people calling for him to resign. ----- Blake Carver LISNews.com Librarian & Information Science News http://lisnews.com From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Feb 25 09:55:24 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Lessons Learned? Message-ID: <20050225145530.9E71428712@frontend3.messagingengine.com> One take-away for me from Gormangate is that it really does make a difference who we elect to positions of leadership in our professional associations. We who support Web 4 Lib and Blogs 4 Lib and Good Technology 4 Lib et al need to start asking harder questions of our erstwhile leadership, and we need to participate in the elections. Turnout just inched past 20% last year, apparently due to a bump from e-voting. 4 out of 5 members simply don't participate. Given that some of us have somewhat of a technology agenda for ALA--wireless at conferences, a better CMS for the website, more technology support overall--we need to think of questions to pose to our current ALA presidential candidates. Btw, Gorman's comments have also been picked up by Instapundit. Librarians--we're famous! Oops, for what, though... Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Feb 25 09:58:09 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <20050224230830.D2403@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> References: <20050224230830.D2403@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> Message-ID: <421F3D01.6050403@ohiolink.edu> John Creech wrote: >>"Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that >>many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex >>texts." > > > Via TiVo I just caught last night's Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart on Comedy > Central. Peter Jennings was his guest. Peter Jennings reads blogs. So > does Jon Stewart. So do I. Gee, Gorman must be smarter than all three of > us. > Gorman obviously has a lot to say. If only there were some tool available to him that would facilitate his putting it online, perhaps with a way for those interested in it to receive a notification when something new was available, and to respond with lively, rough-and-tumble comments... BTW, the Library Journal piece mentions, "...my sin lay in suggesting that Google is OK at giving access to random bits of information but would be terrible at giving access to the recorded knowledge that is the substance of scholarly books." (From the original L.A. Times piece, it's clear the problem is really presenting snippets of books out of context, or somehow getting the books in the wrong order: "The books in great libraries are much more than the sum of their parts. They are designed to be read sequentially and cumulatively, so that the reader gains knowledge in the reading.") Funny, I don't recall any vitriol being thrown about when Roy Tennant wrote: "Google hype to the contrary...Large research libraries that never weed their collections as a matter of policy end up with lots of outdated, useless material. Join this with blind, wholesale digitization, and it's clear we will soon find ourselves in a world where incorrect, dated information trumps current, accurate information through circumstance." Maybe it's all in how you say it. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Feb 25 10:04:59 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the In-Reply-To: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFED8@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> References: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFED8@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <421F3E9B.6000102@ohiolink.edu> Wilson,Alane wrote: > So we bloggers are, in his published (and one assumes, edited) opinion, > stupid, wicked or foolish. Take your pick. At ALA Midwinter in Boston, I think I overheard a cab driver refer to us as "wicked foolish". So we have two-thirds of the options covered already. -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri Feb 25 10:05:18 2005 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the In-Reply-To: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFED8@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> References: <34E701794639DC439FE07F87408381A43BFED8@OAEXCH2SERVER.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <421F3EAE.7040605@ohiolink.edu> Wilson,Alane wrote: > Michael Gorman has said that his article was satire, and I am wondering > how that makes the offensive tone of the article any better? If you write a satire and your readers don't get it, it isn't the readers' fault. And since when does LJ publish satire? Do we get a page of Party Jokes next? -- Thomas Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Fri Feb 25 10:22:04 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <421F3D01.6050403@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <20050225152210.A03F92876F@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > BTW, the Library Journal piece mentions, "...my sin lay in suggesting > that Google is OK at giving access to random bits of information but > would be terrible at giving access to the recorded knowledge that is the > substance of scholarly books." (From the original L.A. Times piece, > it's clear the problem is really presenting snippets of books out of > context, or somehow getting the books in the wrong order: "The books in > great libraries are much more than the sum of their parts. They are > designed to be read sequentially and cumulatively, so that the reader > gains knowledge in the reading.") > > Funny, I don't recall any vitriol being thrown about when Roy Tennant > wrote: "Google hype to the contrary...Large research libraries that > never weed their collections as a matter of policy end up with lots of > outdated, useless material. Join this with blind, wholesale > digitization, and it's clear we will soon find ourselves in a world > where incorrect, dated information trumps current, accurate information > through circumstance." > > Maybe it's all in how you say it. If I don't get off the computer I'm going to end up going to my board meeting in my bathrobe. But I don't see these quotes as analogous (though I do agree--this is something suggested in a writing class I'm taking right now--that it's a good idea not to insult your readers. Writers, take note!). As I read it, Gorman is saying you have to read books in order or they don't make sense, and that the content of these books isn't useful when it's a pot o' data. Tennant is saying that when the trash barge gets larger and filled with, well, more trash, it gets harder to pick through, particularly (he didn't say this, I did) when you lack the tools to pre or postcoordinate the mess. (It's not a trash barge if the good stuff is at the top. It's, well, it's my living room!) It may be a difference of degree, but at 250 degrees the cake will fall. Karen G. "Can I Mix One More Metaphor, Please?" Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From greg.schwartz at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 10:29:16 2005 From: greg.schwartz at gmail.com (Greg Schwartz) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] WEB4LIB digest 3655 In-Reply-To: <14337.148.144.175.2.1109342879.squirrel@148.144.175.2> References: <14337.148.144.175.2.1109342879.squirrel@148.144.175.2> Message-ID: What I love about Gorman's response is his delusion that "Rest assure (sic) my views on 'blogs' have nothing to do with my activities as ALA president-elect or president." Come again? Since when does one's stance on a technology embraced by a perhaps small, yet definitely outspoken segment of your constituency bear no connection with your role as unifier? Since when does insulting said people, some of whom likely voted for Mr. Gorman, constitute good PR for ALA amongst librarians? And when does insulting the blogosphere as a whole represent good PR for ALA in general? And how does this have nothing to do with one's activities as president?!?!?!? Greg Schwartz Open Stacks - http://openstacks.net/os > Topic No. 14 > > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 06:52:05 -0800 > From: "K.G. Schneider" > To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" , > Subject: FW: [ALACOUN:14105] "Blogs" > Message-ID: <20050225145212.A860E28689@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > > This was Michael Gorman's response, btw. > > Karen G. Schneider > > ________________________________________ > From: owner-alacoun@ala.org [mailto:owner-alacoun@ala.org] On Behalf Of > Michael Gorman > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 5:46 PM > To: ALA Council List > Subject: [ALACOUN:14105] "Blogs" > > Dear Colleagues > I am sorry that Councillors Hartman and Schneider feel like that. The piece > (LJ, February 15th 2005) was intended to be satirical, though I am certainly > no fan of "blogs," having an old fashioned belief that, if one wishes to > air one's views and be taken seriously, one should go through the > publishing/editing process. I am surprised that people who attack an > article as mine (LAtimes, Dec. 17th 2004) has been attacked should be as > thin-skinned as some appear to be. > Rest assure that my views on "blogs" have nothing to do with my activities > as ALA president-elect or president. I merely air my views and believe that > everyone (including me) has a right to speak in any way they wish and that > others have a right to respond. > Best wishes, Michael > > _________________________________________________ > Michael Gorman > President-elect, American Library Association > Madden Library, CSU, Fresno > (559) 278-2403 > "The best reading, for the largest number, at the least cost" > www.michaelgorman.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 15 > > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:47:59 -0500 (EST) > From: "Blake Carver" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Subject: RE: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the > Message-ID: <14337.148.144.175.2.1109342879.squirrel@148.144.175.2> > > A few thoughts from a blog person. > > Blogs are indeed often unpalatable, and always untrammeled by editors. > While he meant this to be insulting (or was it satirical?), us bloggers > should be able to admit these are legitimate complaints. Though at the > same time these are some of our greatest strengths. There is nothing wrong > with people not seeing value in what we do, not everyone will. > > Most blogs are not great works of literary history, most bloggers are not > great writers, but that's not the point. Many of us are simply using our > blogs as journals. We share small parts of our lives with our limited > number of readers, and that's all we set out to do. Others use our blogs > to bring people together and create communities. Much of what we are doing > will be lost at some point in the future, but blogs will provide a > wonderful window into this time period for historians in the future. Maybe > in 50 or 100 years some of the best blogs will be considered classics of > this time and medium. > > Though he provides no reason why it's absurd to give us press credentials, > is it so hard for us to believe that someone would think this way? > Especially someone who says he believes a computer that is able to search > well over 8 billion documents in less than a second is "notoriously > inefficient." His response to Google is nothing more than typical > librarian thinking that leaves us shackled to vendors that provide us with > what WE want, and leave out users hanging in the cold. This line of > thinking continues to make us less relevant and expose the ugly > curmudgeonly underbelly of our profession that holds back projects that > could really help. That's not to say we should be rushing into every crazy > new idea out there. But not being able to see the value in what Google > does now, and what it'll be capable of in a few years is not just short > sighted, it's dangerous for our profession. > > The funniest part of the entire article was just how much this article was > nothing more than a post I'd read on any day @LISNews or any other blog. A > post that would probably get moderated as flamebait. > Something tells me this did little to stem the tide of email and comments > that say "Michael Gorman is an idiot" Worse yet, this will work to > alienate more of us from the ALA at a time when they probably don't need > to push more people away. This coming from the president is simply > terrible PR at the very least, and I'd guess will lead to people calling > for him to resign. > > ----- > Blake Carver > LISNews.com > Librarian & Information Science News > http://lisnews.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of WEB4LIB Digest 3655 > ************************** > From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Fri Feb 25 10:40:02 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <20050225152210.A03F92876F@frontend3.messagingengine.com> References: <20050225152210.A03F92876F@frontend3.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <29ed98b7bdd7953377ef16fd69aaa5e8@ucop.edu> On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:24 AM, K.G. Schneider wrote: > this is something suggested in a writing class I'm taking right > now--that it's a good idea not to insult your readers. Writers, take > note!). I agree with Karen that it's not a good idea to insult your readers, but I'm perfectly happy (as are others, certainly) to insult things they hold dear. And I think that is where Gorman went wrong. If he thinks blogs are bad, then fine, fire away. But to make it /personal/ is another matter, as Karen Coyle pointed out. As for the reaction, I think the level of indignation has gotten a bit out of hand. Call for his resignation? I hardly think that is warranted. It may be unfortunate that at the time when we need forward-thinking leaders we end up with one who looks back with more fondness than we would like, but that's life. Kind of like another president that we're stuck with at the moment. Next time vote, and get your colleagues to vote. Meanwhile, feel free to oppose his viewpoints, but by gosh don't make the same mistake of making it personal. Roy From bmenk at ll.mit.edu Fri Feb 25 10:40:02 2005 From: bmenk at ll.mit.edu (Bobb Menk) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Job Posting, MIT Lincoln Laboratory Message-ID: <421F46D2.90802@ll.mit.edu> Posting this for my boss: POSITION OPENING: Metadata Architect / Information Retrieval As a member of the MIT Lincoln Laboratory Library & Information Management group, you will work with a team of information professionals providing services to the Laboratory's 2500+ employees, focusing on its 800+ scientists and engineers. Primary responsibilities will include: > Develop, implement and maintain controlled vocabularies and taxonomies to support effective storage and retrieval of information, and define specifications and plans for taxonomy implementation on the Laboratory's Intranet and content management system > Provide subject-focused technical guides on the Library Intranet and in-depth and on-demand research to individual employees QUALIFICATIONS: Education: ALA-accredited Masters in Library Science with undergraduate degree in the physical sciences or engineering preferred Experience: 1-2 years experience in a science or engineering library or knowledge management group Knowledge of metadata, database, and content characterization systems and applications in the development of taxonomies required Due to the unique nature of Laboratory work, U.S. Citizenship is required. For more information, and to apply, go to http://lljobs.ll.mit.edu/pljb/MIT_Lincoln_Laboratory/External_Careers/applicant/index.jsp (search for the keyword "Library"). For more information about the Laboratory, go to http://www.ll.mit.edu -- --- Marian Bremer, Manager Library & Information Management MIT Lincoln Laboratory http://www.ll.mit.edu mbremer@ll.mit.edu 781-981-7171 From Susan.Edmonds at state.ma.us Fri Feb 25 10:52:15 2005 From: Susan.Edmonds at state.ma.us (Edmonds, Susan (LIB)) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Message-ID: <6C76677A2186D74DB7BCB78DC33CD8C60100E150@ES-MSG-009.es.govt.state.ma.us> Thank you!!!! I don't have to spend any of my time writing a response . Please let's get back on topic. Susan L. Edmonds Library Systems Manager State Library of Massachusetts Room 442 State House 24 Beacon St. Boston,MA 02133 ph:617.727.7456 fax 617.727.5819 email: Susan.Edmonds@state.ma.us -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:24 AM, K.G. Schneider wrote: > this is something suggested in a writing class I'm taking right > now--that it's a good idea not to insult your readers. Writers, take > note!). I agree with Karen that it's not a good idea to insult your readers, but I'm perfectly happy (as are others, certainly) to insult things they hold dear. And I think that is where Gorman went wrong. If he thinks blogs are bad, then fine, fire away. But to make it /personal/ is another matter, as Karen Coyle pointed out. As for the reaction, I think the level of indignation has gotten a bit out of hand. Call for his resignation? I hardly think that is warranted. It may be unfortunate that at the time when we need forward-thinking leaders we end up with one who looks back with more fondness than we would like, but that's life. Kind of like another president that we're stuck with at the moment. Next time vote, and get your colleagues to vote. Meanwhile, feel free to oppose his viewpoints, but by gosh don't make the same mistake of making it personal. Roy From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri Feb 25 10:53:26 2005 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Message-ID: Well said, Roy and Karen. It is also very hard to not make it personal when you feel attacked simply because you enjoy using new technologies and finding ways to sue those technologies to improve library services and access to information. As a recent immigrant into the blogosphere, I hope I have something worthwhile to say. I do not have the time to write long essays and books as some ALA leaders do. I find the format of the blog actually helps me to put my thoughts and ideas into a coherent form. The level of indignation may have gotten out of hand. I am guilty of adding to it. I think the best way to handle the situation now is not to ask Michael Gorman to resign. It is best to continue to make our case to council and the executive board for increased use of modern communications tools within ALA. We also need to provide examples to Mr. Gorman of effective use of blogs and other technologies within LibraryLand. The two candidates for president appear to be more tech savvy. Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Roy Tennant > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:42 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the > "Blog People" > > On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:24 AM, K.G. Schneider wrote: > > > this is something suggested in a writing class I'm taking right > > now--that it's a good idea not to insult your readers. > Writers, take > > note!). > > I agree with Karen that it's not a good idea to insult your readers, > but I'm perfectly happy (as are others, certainly) to insult things > they hold dear. And I think that is where Gorman went wrong. If he > thinks blogs are bad, then fine, fire away. But to make it > /personal/ > is another matter, as Karen Coyle pointed out. As for the reaction, I > think the level of indignation has gotten a bit out of hand. Call for > his resignation? I hardly think that is warranted. It may be > unfortunate that at the time when we need forward-thinking leaders we > end up with one who looks back with more fondness than we would like, > but that's life. Kind of like another president that we're stuck with > at the moment. Next time vote, and get your colleagues to vote. > Meanwhile, feel free to oppose his viewpoints, but by gosh don't make > the same mistake of making it personal. > Roy > > > From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Fri Feb 25 11:06:11 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Security release of Firefox Message-ID: <8e8ed798c422f577800a45755e68e5c8@ucop.edu> A 1.0.1 release of Firefox is now available at , which reportedly fixes some security issues. Roy From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri Feb 25 12:20:53 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Looking for ILCSO "alumni" Message-ID: The Illinois Library Computer Systems Organization (ILCSO) will be marking 25 years of service this summer. As a part of the celebration, ILCSO will be hosting an exhibit and a reception at the ALA annual conference in Chicago. We are trying to compile a mailing list of people with a past connection to ILCSO or ILLINET Online. This connection includes those who may have been employed by an ILCSO library in the past, or those who may have worked on ILCSO committees in the past (see the following for a list of ILCSO member libraries: http://office.ilcso.illinois.edu/About/ilcsolibs.html. If you have such a past connection with ILCSO or ILLINET Online, or if you know someone with a past connection, please contact me, even if you are not planning to attend the ALA annual conference this summer. Thanks in advance! Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From elizalex at umd.edu Fri Feb 25 12:37:38 2005 From: elizalex at umd.edu (Betsy Alexander) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Virtual reference online @ University of Maryland Message-ID: <009201c51b60$b32abca0$1f6c0880@56DZD51> The University of Maryland College of Information Studies will offer two on-line courses on virtual reference in Spring 2005. "Virtual Reference Software Selection" will be offered from April 4-15. This course is geared toward any library manager who is in the process of selecting new virtual reference software or evaluating options for an upgrade. The interactive, web-based course features readings, message board discussions with peers, and information on decision-making resources from the instructor (Jody C. Fagan, MLS). You will learn how to: analyze user needs; evaluate software features and costs; identify "must-have" features; and, involve your staff in decision-making. You should plan to devote approximately five (5) hours to the course over the two-week period. Upon successful completion, .5 CEU will be awarded. The registration deadline for "VR Software Selection" is March 18. "Virtual Reference Legal Issues" will be offered from May 9-20. This interactive, web-based course is geared toward all librarians and will feature readings, message board discussions with peers, feedback from the instructor (Mary Minow, MLS, JD), and a framework for analyzing VR issues. You will learn how to: analyze copyright issues in the context of the VR service; find up-to-date resources on legal issues; determine which areas of law impact VR and when to contact a lawyer. You should plan to devote approximately five (5) hours to the course over the two-week period. Upon successful completion, .5 CEU will be awarded. The registration deadline for "VR Legal Issues" is April 25. To register on-line for "VR Software Selection", click on Register VRSS To register on-line for "VR Legal Issues", click on Register VRLI For other ways to register and additional information on professional development courses, visit http://www.clis.umd.edu/ce. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri Feb 25 12:41:11 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Google scanning project: Interesting Chicago Tribune article Message-ID: Interesting article on Google's scanning project by Steve Johnson, Chicago Tribune Tribune television critic. (It may require free registration). Contained some info I hadn't seen before. http://tinyurl.com/6ngxm Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From cirwin at criminal-sound.com Fri Feb 25 13:11:37 2005 From: cirwin at criminal-sound.com (Charlie Irwin) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20050225120538.02eb9d10@mail.criminal-sound.com> John Creech wrote: 'as John Fogerty says, "Deja vu all over again." ' In the interests of proper citation, that quote is originally attributed to Yogi Berra. (Who, when he wasn't delightfully mangling the English language, played a pretty mean game of baseball.) Charlie Irwin "For it is the greatest truth of our age: Information is not knowledge." Caleb Carr, Killing Time From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Fri Feb 25 13:38:45 2005 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google scanning project: Interesting Chicago Tribune article Message-ID: <4AA263AB78B5394A8277D4C2A0EE490E01BBBFD1@MAINLIB12.lib.msu.edu> Thanks for sharing this. After reading the article, I am not sure if the current search result model that Google employs (list all) would still be useful when they're done with this digitization project. The librarian part in me sez: I prefer to see the result grouped into several categories (just like Teoma, Vivisimo, Grokker, or the ol' Northen Light.) Another part of me (would probably just like typical search users) would like to see everything and then refine my search later. Dunno... I'd be interested to know the "what's next" portion of this project. ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library W441 Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824, USA +1.517.432.6123 ext. 231 +1.517.432.8374 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Sloan, Bernie > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:43 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google scanning project: Interesting > Chicago Tribune > article > > > Interesting article on Google's scanning project by Steve Johnson, > Chicago Tribune Tribune television critic. (It may require free > registration). > > Contained some info I hadn't seen before. > > http://tinyurl.com/6ngxm > > Bernie Sloan > Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO > University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting > 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 > Champaign, IL 61820 > > Phone: (217) 333-4895 > Fax: (217) 265-0454 > E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu > > > > > > From John.Creech at cwu.EDU Fri Feb 25 13:49:13 2005 From: John.Creech at cwu.EDU (John Creech) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FW: LJ: ALA Prez-Elect Gorman on the "Blog People" In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20050225120538.02eb9d10@mail.criminal-sound.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20050225120538.02eb9d10@mail.criminal-sound.com> Message-ID: <20050225104622.R22569@mumbly.lib.cwu.edu> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Charlie Irwin wrote: > John Creech wrote: > > 'as John Fogerty says, "Deja vu all over again." ' > > In the interests of proper citation, that quote is originally attributed to > Yogi Berra. (Who, when he wasn't delightfully mangling the English > language, played a pretty mean game of baseball.) Duly noted. I should have said, "as John Fogerty 'sings'" -- hence, the title cut from his new album. For the lyrics to the song see http://www.johnfogerty.com/main.php john creech From sethf at sethf.com Fri Feb 25 14:05:07 2005 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Michael Gorman "Revenge of the Blog People!" quote sources Message-ID: <20050225190507.GA7905@sethf.com> [FYI, for the discussion, and an entry in my, err, blog ...] Michael Gorman "Revenge of the Blog People!" quote sources http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/000774.html Michael Gorman 's article /"Revenge of the Blog People!" / has, err, caused a stir , due to statements such as: "It is obvious that the Blog People read what they want to read rather than what is in front of them and judge me to be wrong on the basis of what they think rather than what I actually wrote. Given the quality of the writing in the blogs I have seen, I doubt that many of the Blog People are in the habit of sustained reading of complex texts. It is entirely possible that their intellectual needs are met by an accumulation of random facts and paragraphs. In that case, their rejection of my view is quite understandable." [Note Michael Gorman is the President-elect of the American Library Association ] In particular: "If a fraction of the latter were devoted to buying books and providing librarians for the library-starved children of California, the effort would be of far more use to humanity and society. Perhaps that latter thought will reinforce the opinion of the Blog Person who included "Michael Gorman is an idiot" in his reasoned critique, because no opinion that comes from someone who is "antidigital" (in the words of another Blog Person) could possibly be correct. For the record, though I may have associated with Antidigitalists, I am not and have never been a member of the Antidigitalist party and would be willing to testify to that under oath. I doubt even that would save me from being burned at the virtual stake, or, at best, being placed in a virtual pillory to be pelted with blogs. Ugh!" I did some research tracking down these two items. The "idiot" quote is almost certainly: "Where do they find these people?" http://www.livejournal.com/users/crasch/327213.html "Michael Gorman, president of the American Library Association, is an idiot too." You wouldn't find it simply searching Google for the phrase "Michael Gorman is an idiot", since the above quote is slightly longer. I also thought to check Feedster , since it's a bit better at indexing blogs. "Antidigital" is probably http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2004/12/21/more-on-google-digitization/ "All I have to add is a couple cents' worth about Michael Gorman. He has always been anti-digital (just read what I've written about him for details)" Again, slight variation means a phrase search wouldn't find it. All of this yet another iteration of the confusion of the word "blog" meaning all of diary/chat/punditry. But that's another blogging topic . -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri Feb 25 14:11:57 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Lessons Learned? Message-ID: Karen Schneider said: "Btw, Gorman's comments have also been picked up by Instapundit." Some of his comments made the "quote of the day" in the SiliconValley.com e-newsletter, along with the caption: "American Library Association president Michael Gorman's bid to become the blogging community's next whipping boy." -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of K.G. Schneider Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Lessons Learned? One take-away for me from Gormangate is that it really does make a difference who we elect to positions of leadership in our professional associations. We who support Web 4 Lib and Blogs 4 Lib and Good Technology 4 Lib et al need to start asking harder questions of our erstwhile leadership, and we need to participate in the elections. Turnout just inched past 20% last year, apparently due to a bump from e-voting. 4 out of 5 members simply don't participate. Given that some of us have somewhat of a technology agenda for ALA--wireless at conferences, a better CMS for the website, more technology support overall--we need to think of questions to pose to our current ALA presidential candidates. Btw, Gorman's comments have also been picked up by Instapundit. Librarians--we're famous! Oops, for what, though... Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri Feb 25 16:49:05 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: What would you ask Google and the Google Print Libraries? Message-ID: Forwarded from the LITA-L list with the permission of Maurice York... Bernie Sloan ________________________________________ From: owner-lita-l@ala.org [mailto:owner-lita-l@ala.org] On Behalf Of Maurice York Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 3:17 PM To: Library and Information Technology Association List Subject: [LITA-L:1283] What would you ask Google and the Google Print Libraries? Hi all, I've changed the thread name of Bernie's posting because it reminded me of something I have been meaning to post to this group. I am putting together and moderating a program for Annual in Chicago on Google Print and Google Scholar. The panel will consist of Google's product manager for both Google Print and Google Scholar and project managers from each of the libraries involved in the Google Print project (Harvard, Stanford, Michigan, and NYPL are confirmed...still working on Oxford). The first part of the program will be a presentation from Google, followed by the panel discussion. I'm putting together a list of questions to ask the panel and wanted to collect ideas on what kind of questions are burning in people's minds. Any topic under the sun that touches on what Google and the libraries are doing is game. So, if you could ask one question of Google and all the libraries involved in the project, what would you ask? (Okay, if you have more than one I'll take everything you've got....) Thanks, Maurice PS--If you're interested in coming to the program, it will be on Monday (June 27th) afternoon from 1:30-3:30, so take that into account when making your travel plans. It should be a great program! *********************** Maurice York LITA Emerging Technologies Interest Group Team Leader, Circulation and Reserves Woodruff Library Emory University Atlanta, GA mcyork@emory.edu On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:43:59 -0600, Sloan, Bernie wrote: Interesting article on Google's scanning project by Steve Johnson, Chicago Tribune Tribune television critic. (May require free registration). Contained some info I hadn't seen before. http://tinyurl.com/6ngxm Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu --- LITA-L mailing list: To Unsubscribe --- To unsubscribe send an email to listproc@ala.org with the following in the body of the message unsubscribe lita-l --- LITA-L mailing list: To Unsubscribe --- To unsubscribe send an email to listproc@ala.org with the following in the body of the message unsubscribe lita-l From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Fri Feb 25 16:58:50 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: JOB: DIRECTOR, DIGITAL LABORATORY Message-ID: <13fbcf678e198427dd52fa727c4a8710@ucop.edu> Posted on behalf of Bob Sink , please do not respond to me. Roy Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bob Sink" > Date: February 25, 2005 1:53:52 PM PST > > ************************************* > Robert Sink > Chief Archivist & Project Director > Center for Jewish History > 15 West 16th Street > New York City, NY 10011 > 917-606-8215 > bsink@cjh.org > CENTER FOR JEWISH HISTORY (New York City, NY) DIRECTOR, DIGITAL LABORATORY The Center for Jewish History is accepting applications for the Director of its Gruss Lipper Digital Laboratory.? BACKGROUND:?The Center for Jewish History is a consortium of five archival, library, and museum collections.?Visit our website at: www.cjh.org.?We have received a gift from the Gruss Lipper Family Foundation that will allow us to establish an on-site digital lab.? DUTIES:?The Director will play a key role in establishing and managing the lab.?The immediate priorities will be selection of equipment, hiring of staff, developing policies and procedures, and identifying appropriate standards or best practices to be adopted by the lab.?On an ongoing basis the position will manage workflow, monitor projects in the lab, and establish priorities.?The position will supervise a Metadata/Quality Control Specialist, a Digital Photographer, and part-time scanning technicians.?The Director will work with the professional staff of the Center?s five Partner institutions to develop digital projects.?Works closely with the Preservation Administrator to coordinate activities between the two units.?Performs other duties as required.? QUALIFICATIONS: Masters degree in library science, history, or other relevant subject area.?Professional experience working in a library, archives or museum setting and at least two years experience working with digital images.?Demonstrated experience with scanning technology and equipment and the ability to keep current in this rapidly changing area of professional work.?Must be organized and able to work accurately.?Must have experience with word processing and database management software.?Must have good writing and verbal skills and be able to work collaboratively in a team setting.?Experience supervising.?Ability to build consensus among the diverse constituencies of the digital lab.? Knowledge of mark-up languages and tools and experience with metadata schemes (Dublin Core and MARC). Familiarity with copyright law is preferred.?Basic knowledge of collection management systems such as ALEPH and KE EMu and digital asset management systems such as DigiTool is desirable.? Applications (cover letter, resume and contact information for three references) should be sent to:??jobs@cjh.org Review of applications will begin immediately. Salary:?Commensurate with experience, plus benefits. Center for Jewish History 15 West 16th Street New York City, NY 10011 www.cjh.org ? From Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca Fri Feb 25 19:21:37 2005 From: Darryl.Friesen at usask.ca (Darryl Friesen) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:15 2005 Subject: Fw: Dave Binkley Message-ID: <004a01c51b99$228672f0$6501a8c0@usask.ca> I didn't see any mention of this yet on Web4Lib, so I'll pass on this message from Lynn Copeland at SFU. I know many in the Web4Lib community knew, or knew of, Dave. - Darryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Copeland" To: ; Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: [COPPUL-S] Dave Binkley > Those of you who knew Dave Binkley will be saddened to hear that > he passed away today. Dave was a member of SFU Library Systems > from 1992-98 where he contributed to the early development of Godot > as well as to the automation of our Interlibrary Loan management > systems and that of other COPPUL sites, and to many other library > systems initiatives. But mostly those of us who knew him will > remember what a great guy he was, and deeply regret his untimely death. > > http://www.trentu.ca/news/daily/050225dbinkley.html > ---- > Lynn Copeland email: > copeland@sfu.ca > University Librarian > WAC Bennett Library phone: 604-291-3265 > Simon Fraser University fax: 604-291-3023 > 8888 University Avenue > Burnaby, B.C., Canada, V5A 1S6. > From calumet at mindspring.com Mon Feb 28 08:37:32 2005 From: calumet at mindspring.com (Tara Calishain) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:16 2005 Subject: Latest Resource Listings from ResearchBuzz -- ( February 17 - February 23 ) Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050228083707.02ba4448@pop.mindspring.com> Following are links to resource writeups from the latest issue of ResearchBuzz ( February 17 - February 23 ). As always you may subscribe to the newsletter by visiting http://www.researchbuzz.com . Thanks, Tara tara@researchbuzz.com -- ** LOC Adds Some Prints and Photographs ** Google Adds Movie Special Syntax ** FindLaw Launches Real Estate Site ** Collection of Digital Camera Tips ** A Directory for Competitive Intelligence ** New at LLRX 022205 ** Hawaii Image Bank ** White House Recordings on the Web ** Northumberland Rock Art ** Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography Goes to Version 57 ** Forest Laboratories Announces Clinical Trial Registry Also On the Site ---------------- * Rhode Island Goes RSS * Oregon Releases New Blue Book * Penn State Searching Innovation * Web Search Garage Wins Pandia Award * New Google India Zeitgeist From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Mon Feb 28 09:47:59 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:16 2005 Subject: Revenge of the Codex People Message-ID: Apropos of a recent discussion here on Web4Lib, George Needham of the OCLC "It's All Good" blog has written a short but wonderful satire. See Perhaps bloggers are well read after all, methinks. Roy From knelson5 at uiuc.edu Mon Feb 28 16:53:37 2005 From: knelson5 at uiuc.edu (Karin Nelson) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:16 2005 Subject: virtual cd rom Message-ID: <4ad80918.d5e53e77.82a3200@expms4.cites.uiuc.edu> Does anyone have any pros or cons to any software that is used for virtual cd rom drives? I'm looking at Farstone's VirtualDrive, Alcohol 120% or 52%, and Virtual CD. Just curious to get any feedback to any of these products. Also, were you able to find any software reviews online besides at the actual website for the product? Please advise. Thanks in advance for any help you may give. Karin Nelson knelson5 From SuHui at library.ucsd.edu Mon Feb 28 16:56:30 2005 From: SuHui at library.ucsd.edu (SuHui Ho) Date: Wed May 18 14:18:16 2005 Subject: LACASIS Event - Vietnamese Americans: Cultural & Personal Information Archiving Message-ID: Electronic Posting Only - Please Excuse Cross-Posting ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Los Angeles Chapter of the American Society for Information Science & Technology (LACASIS) invites you to the following program: Vietnamese Americans: Cultural & Personal Information Archiving Monday, March 21, 2005 Please join us at an authentic Vietnamese restaurant in Orange County's "Little Saigon" for this dinner program. Dr. Jeff Brody, Communications Professor at Cal State University Fullerton will present "Vietnamese Americans: Self-Portrait of a People". Anne Frank, head of the Southeast Asian Archives at University of California, Irvine, will present the digitization project of that collection. DA LAT Bistro 16525 Brookhurst Street (Brookhurst & Heil) Fountain Valley, CA 92708 714.839.8338 6:00 p.m. Social networking / Appetizers / No-host bar 6:30 p.m. Dinner (some vegetarian dishes served) 7:30 p.m. Program featuring Dr. Jeff Brody and Anne Frank Cost: $25 for members $28 for non-members $20 for students Register by March 18, 2005 (limited to 60) Register online at http://www.lacasis.org or mail in registration form Driving directions from Los Angeles: >From the 405 South, exit Warner Ave. East Right onto Warner heading East Left onto Brookhurst-go 1/2 mile Left on Heil Da Lat Bistro will be on the left in a small shopping center immediately on your left Driving directions from Orange County: >From the 22 West, exit Brookhurst Make a quick right onto Trask-then another right onto Brookhurst Go exactly 3 miles-turn right onto Heil Da Lat Bistro will be on the left in a small shopping center immediately on your left ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REGISTRATION FORM Name & Affiliation LACASIS Member or Student? ___ LACASIS Member ___ Student Email Address for Confirmation First LACASIS Event? ___ Yes ___ No Prefer vegetarian entr?e only? ___ Yes ___ No Total Amount Enclosed Checks payable to LACASIS $25 members $28 non-members $20 students Please send form and check payable to LACASIS by Friday, March 18 to: Belinda Beardt AIM 900 Wilshire Blvd. Ste. 1424 Los Angeles, CA 90017 All payments must be received by the registration date indicated. Full refunds will be given for any cancellations prior to that date. LACASIS reserves the right to invoice registered individuals who do not cancel within the specified time period. If you have registration questions, please contact Belinda Beardt at lacasis@gmail.com or 213-289-9800 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From gerrymck at iastate.edu Sat Feb 19 16:44:31 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:24 2005 Subject: Theoretical Librarian Blog Launched Message-ID: Colleagues/ I am pleased to announce the official launch of my personal/professional blog _Theoretical Librarian _ (TLB). TLB is located [ http://theoretical-librarian.blogspot.com ] I will no longer post (nor cross-post) original postings to this or other lists. Those who may be interested in my future Observations/Cosmic Insights/Publications/Etc. are welcome to visit TLB at their convenience, or subscribe to the Atom feed for this blog [ http://theoretical-librarian.blogspot.com/atom.xml ] I have activated the public Comment function in TLB to foster a dialog about the issues raised/presented in my postings so feel free to Engage! As for a reader, I use feed Pluck (http://www.pluck.com/) [FREE] but there are DozensOfOthers [e.g., http://www.davidmattison.ca/tiki/tiki-slideshow2.php page_ref_id=26 ] Thanks to Dan C. for Suggesting this Transformation! BTW: The second posting in TLB is about today's NYTimes article on The Attack of the Pod(casting) People [:-) [ http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/19/technology/19podcasting.html ] Regards, /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Theoretical Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu P.S. Is anyone aware of listservs/e-lists that have a blog component or have migrated from a list to a blog format? Thanks! From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Tue Feb 22 14:03:09 2005 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:28 2005 Subject: Service Outage Message-ID: I'm very sorry, but I must report that the Web4Lib subscriber file was somehow destroyed and has now been restored to the February 17th version, with some people who joined after that date also recovered. We were down all weekend. If you left the discussion and now discover yourself back on, please accept my apology and either re-execute your unsubscribe command or email me and request that I remove you. I'm sorry for trouble and the service outage. Roy Tennant Web4Lib Owner From Jim.Crowley at spl.org Tue Feb 22 15:07:09 2005 From: Jim.Crowley at spl.org (Jim Crowley) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: Email marketing packages Message-ID: Hi all, Would anyone on this list have information on email marketing service providers, such as CheetahMail? I am working with my library's foundation to determine whether any of the existing providers might have packages that would be especially useful to us as a way of interacting with our patrons (in terms of keeping them up-to-date on events, changes, news, etc.). Comparative information (about CheetahMail, Bronto, etc.) would be especially useful, but any anecdotal information would be helpful too. Thanks. Jim Crowley Web Manager Seattle Public Library From leo at leoklein.com Tue Feb 22 15:46:12 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Hennepin County Library Online Resource Page In-Reply-To: <9DE2996D5E4D7145BF5B9A9D9F3E40C80115C887@exchange2.hclib.org> References: <9DE2996D5E4D7145BF5B9A9D9F3E40C80115C887@exchange2.hclib.org> Message-ID: <50499.131.193.221.97.1109105172.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> Hi Marilyn, First, really really nice site! Kudos to whoever designed it. On your question about the Resource Page, I think it's wonderfully laid out. You really do get what most people are looking for. Also, the way you can switch from "Top" resources to "All" resources is pretty neat. As a whole, I wonder if people looking for "articles" will be steered in the right direction. Besides that, the Section looks great -- as does the site. On the other hand, why believe me? Have you done some usability tests on it? I find it the best way to confirm (or demolish) my design assumptions. LEO On Tue, February 22, 2005 1:52 pm, turner, marilyn said: > At Hennepin County Library we recently redesigned the way we present our > selected Web sites and subscription databases to our users and invite > you to take a look. We brought these two resources together on a single > Subject Guide and incorporated blog-like librarian notes, links into the > Catalog, links into our e-Book collections and links to related library > classes and events. Also, custom booklists that link into the Catalog > and RSS feeds from outside sources are incorporated directly into the > page. =20 > > Nearly 40 librarians throughout our system regularly maintain these > pages via locally developed web administration tools. Pictures of our > librarians add a personal touch and reinforce the fact that "real" > people are providing this content for the user. Later this year we will > add the capability to subscribe to the librarian notes via RSS and > e-mail. Librarians change their notes monthly or more frequently. > > Take a look at the Subject Guides at > http://www.hclib.org/pub/search/reference.cfm > or go to http://www.hclib.org and click on Subject guides > -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From suekamm at mindspring.com Tue Feb 22 15:53:52 2005 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Message-ID: <9441738.1109105633007.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> I think it would be helpful to allow searches for videos and sound recordings. Someone with a long commute may want to listen to a book rather than read it. (It's difficult to read when you're barrelling down the freeway ) A student of Shakespeare may want to see a video of a play rather than read it, particularly if all your print copies of the play and W.S.'s complete works are checked out and the assignment is due the next day :-) Your friendly CyberGoddess and Councilor-at-large, Sue Kamm Inglewood/Los Angeles, CA Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 Visit my home page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm email: suekamm [at] mindspring.com "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." John Emerich Edward Dahlberg-Acton, Lord Acton (1834-1902) Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton From dale.poulter at vanderbilt.edu Tue Feb 22 20:19:51 2005 From: dale.poulter at vanderbilt.edu (Poulter, Dale) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: Firefox problem Message-ID: All, We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? --------------------------------------- Dale Poulter Systems Librarian Library Information Technology Services Vanderbilt University Suite 700 110 21st Avenue South Nashville, TN 37240 (615)343-5388 (615)343-8834 (fax) (615)207-9705 (cell) dale.poulter@vanderbilt.edu From jkduke at vcu.edu Tue Feb 22 21:03:52 2005 From: jkduke at vcu.edu (John Duke) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421BE488.1020208@vcu.edu> Dale, I've used internal page links with no problem in Firefox. Can you give a sample page that has the problem so I can take a look? John Poulter, Dale wrote: > All, > > We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a > problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages > with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with > FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > Dale Poulter > Systems Librarian > Library Information Technology Services > Vanderbilt University > Suite 700 > 110 21st Avenue South > Nashville, TN 37240 > (615)343-5388 > (615)343-8834 (fax) > (615)207-9705 (cell) > dale.poulter@vanderbilt.edu > > -- John Duke INTERNET: jkduke@vcu.edu VCU Libraries VOICE: 804/828-1100 Virginia Commonwealth University FAX: 804/828-0151 From leo at leoklein.com Tue Feb 22 22:15:31 2005 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:30:29 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Firefox problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33511.68.20.219.148.1109128531.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com> On Tue, February 22, 2005 7:22 pm, Poulter, Dale said: > > We have been using FireFox for a while but have encountered a > problem that I am unable find a solution to. We have a few pages > with internal links. These work great with IE but fail with > FireFox 1.0. Any suggestions? > > > > > Probably a stupid question but are you closing your anchor tags? I.E.: Click Here! You have won... LEO -- ------------- Leo Robert Klein www.leoklein.com From ev at buch.biblio.etc.tu-bs.de Wed Feb 2 04:39:48 2005 From: ev at buch.biblio.etc.tu-bs.de (Bernhard Eversberg) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google OPACs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1 Feb 05, at 14:33, Gerry Mckiernan wrote: > Are you aware of any OPAC vendor that provides a system that has been > interfaced with a > local Google installation and thus allow records to be displayed in a > Google order? > > In this case, the displayed items could/might be ranked according to > the associated number of > checkouts for each newly displayed item, or perhaps by number of full > record displays in the local > online catalog, or both? Or .... ? A truly Google-like ranking in an OPAC would of course require that we record all the references in all the books we catalog, and in a rigidly standardized way. This being practically impossible, number of checkouts might be an option if you manage to record the checkouts per title, not just per copy. Only, what about reserve books or important reference works that are not regularly checked out? Criteria for "quality" or "relevance" might also include the fact that the title record has an edition statement with a number higher than 1, or has a uniform title or is a translation. All of which is not really easy to ascertain by software. But Google ranking does lots more than just count links. Keywords are, for example, attributed more "weight" if occurring in a tag or in headlines or image tags or captions. And then there is the proximity of words and their location within the text (early or late). These concepts are just not applicable for catalog records, consisting mostly of noun phrases without any specific tagging. Maybe words in the title proper are "worth" more than in any additions, but you easily find examples to the contrary. Reverse chronologic, as many OPACs rank their results, is maybe still the best and most transparent presentation. We have to, I think, describe and point out the differences between catalogs and search engines. In a paper published in 2002, I attempted just that: "On the theory of library catalogs and search engines" http://www.allegro-c.de/formate/tlcse.htm Regards, B.E. Bernhard Eversberg Universitaetsbibliothek, Postf. 3329, D-38023 Braunschweig, Germany Tel. +49 531 391-5026 , -5011 , FAX -5836 e-mail B.Eversberg@tu-bs.de From jhwang at iis.sinica.edu.tw Wed Feb 2 04:41:47 2005 From: jhwang at iis.sinica.edu.tw (Chris Wang) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Call for Papers: International Conference on Digital Archive Technologies ICDAT 2005 Message-ID: <003d01c5090b$6d64a5d0$2900a8c0@1515IBMX24> Sorry if you received multiple copies of this message. 2005 International Conference on Digital Archive Technologies (ICDAT2005) 16-17 June 2005 National Chengchi University, Taipei, Taiwan Sponsored by Technology R/D Division, National Digital Archives Program Office National Chengchi University Institute of Information Sciences, Academia Sinica National Science Council URL: http://www.iis.sinica.edu.tw/ICDAT05 About the Conference Digital archives/libraries are widely recognized as a crucial component of a global information infrastructure for the new century. Research and development projects in many parts of the world are concerned about using advanced information technologies for managing and manipulating digital information, ranging from data storage, preservation, indexing, searching, presentation, and dissemination capabilities to organizing and sharing of information over networks. ICDAT 2005 is the third in a series of International Conferences on Digital Archive Technologies sponsored by the R. O. C. Taiwan's National Digital Archives Program. The purpose of this conference is to provide unique opportunities for participants to share their research results and best practice experiences in the utilization of advanced technologies for and the approaches to the development of digital archives/libraries/museums. Topics The intended community for ICDAT 2005 includes those interested in technologies and tools for advanced digital archive systems, new knowledge about archival storage and preservation, best practices of technology development in digital archives, and applications of digital archive technologies. Participants are welcome from a variety of disciplines including computer sciences, library information sciences, archival sciences, museum studies and other related areas. ICDAT 2005 invites research submissions on all topics related to digital archives/libraries/museums, but topics contributed to technology development are strongly encouraged. The technical issues to be addressed include, but are not limited to: 1. Digital archive technologies for enhancing security, content preservation, multimedia delivery and presentation, system collaboration and interoperability, information and multimedia retrieval, data exchange, ontology and semantic annotation, multi-cultural and multi-lingual information sharing, and intellectual property protection 2. Case studies exemplifying the technology development and application in libraries, museums, archival organizations, governments, education, and culture 3. Usability evaluation of digital archive systems and related applications Important Dates Submission Deadline: March 31, 2005 Notification Date: April 30, 2005 Final Version Due: May 15, 2005 Submission Instructions Papers should be submitted in English and up to approximately 5000 words. There are no formatting requirements for submissions, but do not use font sizes smaller than 10 points. The final version of the paper will have to fit within 15 single-column pages, including all figures and bibliography, so plan accordingly. All submission instructions can be found on the conference web site: http://www.iis.sinica.edu.tw/ICDAT05/c-submission.html. Conference Venue and Date The conference will be held at National Chengchi University, Taipei, Taiwan, on June 16 -17, 2005. Since its founding 78 years ago, National Chengchi University (NCCU) has earned a reputation as an institution of higher education celebrated for its studies in the humanities, social sciences, and management/administration sciences. Although it has changed its name and constitution twice in its history, the goals and ideals of the university have always remained steadfast: the search for truth, the commitment to academic research, the cultivation of future generations of leaders, and the ability to recognize and respond to changes shaping society and academia. Conference Chairmen Prof. Arbee L.P. Chen, National Chengchi University Dr. Der-Tsai Lee, Academia Sinica Program Chairs Prof. Jyi-Shane Liu, National Chengchi University Prof. Lee-Feng Chien, Academia Sinica Program Co-Chairs Prof. Chu-Song Chen, Academia Sinica Prof. Hahn-Ming Lee, National Taiwan University of Science and Technology From BreakallS at chesterfield.gov Wed Feb 2 08:19:14 2005 From: BreakallS at chesterfield.gov (Breakall, Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Locked PDF files -- conclusion Message-ID: <5D000B78613C1C48989C7A5923B71ABA02D08AEA@franklin.chesterfield.gov> It turns out Beatrice was probably right. I just got this back from the Registrar's Office: >The Spring 2005 PDF document print lock has been removed. > > > >Please remember that the Spring 2005 PDF document, spcoursecat.pdf, only >contains the informational term documentation regarding the Spring 2005. >It does not contain the actual courses being offered. That information is >available when you click on the hyperlink on-line on page 3 of the PDF >document. You can browse by subject a listing of course being offered >from that web page. > > > >[somebody] > >Registrar's Office The version now linked from the original page is not print locked. Shame -- a conspiracy would have been more fun... ;-) ~Scott~ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Beatrice Pulliam Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Locked PDF files It's probably a mistake. I've had success using my full version of Acrobat to change security settings, but it didn't work with this one ( not sure if it makes a difference, bu I only have 5.0 here). It might be easier to just call (gasp) someone at Central to see if they'll send you an "unprotected" pdf. -- Beatrice R. Pulliam Reference Librarian and Assistant Professor Phillips Memorial Library Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918 401.865.2891 http://www.providence.edu/Academics/Phillips+Memorial+Library/ From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Wed Feb 2 09:33:18 2005 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (Robin Boulton) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Spyware/malware review and information Message-ID: <7E6A8131A5C1F245BE3AA68781ACF927195BDD@dellstaff2.scplnet.lib.il.us> Brian Livingstone, a computer columnist I have read and respected for years, recently published a comprehensive review and analysis of the current state of the battle against spyware. He reviews a number of products and makes some recommendations. I recommend the article (second story on the newsletter page) at: (http://WindowsSecrets.com/050127/ ) Robin Boulton rboulton@linc.lib.il.us IT Manager (630) 584 0076 x 258 St. Charles Public Library District Cell:? (630) 918 8738 St. Charles, IL 60174 http://www.stcharleslibrary.org/ From Emily_Alling at SPFLDCOL.EDU Wed Feb 2 09:35:57 2005 From: Emily_Alling at SPFLDCOL.EDU (Emily_Alling@SPFLDCOL.EDU) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: The Ur-Podcast Message-ID: <OFF92AB7D1.AB525F15-ON85256F9C.004F559A@spfldcol.edu> How great to read about Fiona's radio show and the growth of podcasting on the first day of our own return to the airwaves here at Springfield College (MA)....My co-host and fellow reference librarian James Miller and I have a weekly show on the campus radio station, called Schoolhouse Rock, where we talk about library services and information resources, especially Web resources, and play music as well. Our blog, with playlists and links we discuss, is at http://librarydjs.blogspot.com The blog is a necessity because, well, reading URLs over the air is definitely not the best way to hook people up with websites. We discuss both licensed and free resources, weighted a little more toward free since the airwaves don't discriminate between "authorized users" and the general public. A couple of our more successful shows have dealt with topics such as plagiarism and Internet filtering. Our campus radio station doesn't webcast, unfortunately, but podcasting is an intriguing idea for the show. We'd have to deal with copyright issues due to the music we play. We do burn shows onto CD, and we've shared them with campus departments and even used them in student worker training. If you have access to a radio station, this can be a lot of fun. sorry, I know this isn't Radio4Lib. Fiona, I'd love to hear more about your show, off-list if that's more appropriate. thanks Emily ************************************************************************** Emily Alling ealling@spfldcol.edu Reference Librarian (413) 748-3848 Babson Library (413) 748-3631 (fax) Springfield College AIM: fondueparty Springfield, MA 01109 Fiona Bradley <fiona.bradley@sbs To: Multiple recipients of list <web4lib@webjunction.org> .com.au> cc: Sent by: Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: The Ur-Podcast web4lib@sunsite3.b erkeley.edu 02/01/2005 05:49 PM Please respond to fiona.bradley How do you define podcast? Do you only include links via enclosures and RSS? If so, then Greg is the first. Otherwise, I used to have a weekly library news show on public radio and made it available for download each week before RSS came along, in RealAudio because I didn't have the bandwidth for MP3 at the time. This was from 2001-2003. People used to laugh when I told them I had a show about libraries on radio ("what could there be to talk about?"), but when I told them that it was all about government policy, copyright, access to information etc, they all tuned in! And it was in prime time, no less. ;) cheers, Fiona >>> "K.G. Schneider" <kgs@bluehighways.com> 2/02/2005 5:18:10 am >>> I have been looking around and I believe Greg Schwartz of Open Stacks can claim the first librarian podcasts, q.v.: http://openstacks.net/os/archives/000732.html#000732 (It's possible I'm first runner-up in the Podcasting Librarian contest, since I did one early this morning on Free Range Librarian, but in terms of the historical benchmark, does anyone have earlier examples than Greg's?) Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From beden at ccmail.nevada.edu Wed Feb 2 10:14:05 2005 From: beden at ccmail.nevada.edu (beden@ccmail.nevada.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Help to identify innovative digital projects in the humanities Message-ID: <OF2A4500EF.A42729CE-ON88256F9C.0053A126@ccmail.nevada.edu> Hello, everyone. I am writing a Library Technology Report for the American Library Association on innovative digital projects in the humanities. I would be interested in any innovative digital projects that you feel incorporate interesting content with fascinating and state-of-the-art technology in the humanities. This includes websites, CDs, 2D and 3D presentations, etc. Please forward information to me personally (not to the listserv). Thanks for your attention. Dr. Brad Eden Head, Web and Digitization Services University of Nevada, Las Vegas Libraries beden@ccmail.nevada.edu From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 2 10:22:52 2005 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Cites & Insights 5:3 available Message-ID: <OF4E63D61C.A7C3CFE3-ON88256F9C.005469D4-88256F9C.00547EBE@rlg.org> Cites & Insights 5:3, February 2005, is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ3i5.pdf The 24-page issue (PDF as always) includes: * Ethical Perspectives: Republishing and Blogging (no, it's not about the Webcred conference) * The Library Stuff: two articles and a cluster of five blog entries worth reading and thinking about * Trends & Quick Takes: 11 items in all, including a different look at Pew's blogging numbers, patent holding companies, an OPAC wiki, and lots more. * Perspective: Wikipedia and Worth [Revisited]--how one little op-ed draws a book's worth of flames and comments! * The Good Stuff--seven articles worth reading * Session Reports from ALA Midwinter 2005: ACRL Current Topics Discussion Group and ALCTS Electronic Resources Interest Group Additional session reports from ALA Midwinter are still invited, as are other program and conference reports. See the reporting guidelines at http://cites.boisestate.edu/reporting.htm From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 2 10:25:36 2005 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Cites & Insights 5:3 available (corrected repost) Message-ID: <OF2BC5F3D9.F8D57B00-ON88256F9C.0054A774-88256F9C.0054BEB5@rlg.org> Apologies for re-posting, but it might be nice to get the address correct. (Not that there's anything wrong with v.3 issue 5, but the new one is v. 5 issue 3...) Cites & Insights 5:3, February 2005, is now available for downloading at http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ5i3.pdf The 24-page issue (PDF as always) includes: * Ethical Perspectives: Republishing and Blogging (no, it's not about the Webcred conference) * The Library Stuff: two articles and a cluster of five blog entries worth reading and thinking about * Trends & Quick Takes: 11 items in all, including a different look at Pew's blogging numbers, patent holding companies, an OPAC wiki, and lots more. * Perspective: Wikipedia and Worth [Revisited]--how one little op-ed draws a book's worth of flames and comments! * The Good Stuff--seven articles worth reading * Session Reports from ALA Midwinter 2005: ACRL Current Topics Discussion Group and ALCTS Electronic Resources Interest Group Additional session reports from ALA Midwinter are still invited, as are other program and conference reports. See the reporting guidelines at http://cites.boisestate.edu/reporting.htm From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Feb 2 10:49:00 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: The Ur-Podcast In-Reply-To: <OFF92AB7D1.AB525F15-ON85256F9C.004F559A@spfldcol.edu> Message-ID: <20050202154904.91B5228712@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > sorry, I know this isn't Radio4Lib. Fiona, I'd love to hear more about > your > show, off-list if that's more appropriate. No, but it's Web4Lib, and you brought up some fascinating issues related to the Web and librarianship. As a W4L reader, I hank you for sharing this with us. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From elizalex at umd.edu Wed Feb 2 12:47:52 2005 From: elizalex at umd.edu (Betsy Alexander) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: "Records, E-Records, E-Government" on-line @ University of Maryland Message-ID: <00f701c5094f$51b993b0$71b30281@56DZD51> The University of Maryland College of Information Studies is offering an on-line workshop entitled "Records, E-Records, and E-Government" from March 7 - 18, 2005. "Records, E-Records, and E-Government" covers the principles and practices of managing records in the government sector, especially in the context of the evolution to electronic data, information, and records, as well as the changing paradigms of communicating government information. The course will be taught by Lee S. Strickland, JD. Course topics will include: History, basic concepts and evolving trends in records management Records management and document management applications NARA leadership in electronic records management Establishing a program to manage electronic records Accessioning, describing and preserving electronic records Legal issues, reference and access regarding electronic records Electronic government as the evolving source for the creation, maintenance, use and dissemination of government information The future of electronic records and electronic government. A participant should plan to dedicate approximately 30 hours to the course over a two-week period. Three (3) continuing education units (CEUs) will be awarded by the University upon completion. For information about technical requirements, please contact rmazzone@umd.edu. The registration deadline for "Records, E-Records, and E-Government" is February 21. REGISTER TODAY! (please make sure that your home address is included in the "Comments" section of the registration form so that a CD-ROM can be mailed to you before the course begins) For information about other professional development courses offered on-line by the UMCP College of Information Studies, visit www.clis.umd.edu/ce. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From greg.schwartz at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 13:12:51 2005 From: greg.schwartz at gmail.com (Greg Schwartz) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: The Ur-Podcast In-Reply-To: <be247d8805020209276f10744d@mail.gmail.com> References: <be247d8805020209276f10744d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <be247d88050202101258c75f05@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Just thought I'd throw my unsolicited two cents into the podcasting discussion. >"I have been looking around and I believe Greg Schwartz of Open Stacks can claim the first librarian podcasts, q.v.: http://openstacks.net/os/archives/000732.html#000732 (It's possible I'm first runner-up in the Podcasting Librarian contest, since I did one early this morning on Free Range Librarian, but in terms of the historical benchmark, does anyone have earlier examples than Greg's?)" Karen, I'm taking your initial question to mean 'the first librarian podcast related to librarianship.' If that is an unintended leap, then I should point out that Open Stacks is not only not the first podcast made available by a librarian, it's not even the first podcast by me. That distinction belongs to my other show, Preserves, Jellies and Jams. This is a link to the first post, which very well may contain the first librarian podcast (at least the first by a librarian who has admitted it): http://openstacks.net/pjj/archives/000726.html However, I suspect that there are some other unidentified librarians syndicating non-LIS audio content. >"Also, it took a lot more preparation to do a half-hour program than to blog about something. It took me about 2 hours to gather the news, an hour to write the script, and then half an hour to do the show (plus transport to and from the studio)." My process works a bit differently that Fiona's, since I have neither a studio nor an inherent need to produce an audience. I compile brief notes over the course of the week, arrange them in a loose order and go. No script. Limited preparation. And it shows. But I have to admit that, given my current time constraints, that's about the best I can muster (without sponsorship!). I just sit at my computer and blab away and it seems to be working for people to my infinite surprise and pleasure. I find it more exciting and overall less taxing than regular blogging and find that some of my best thoughts crystallize while I'm recording them. >"Our campus radio station doesn't webcast, unfortunately, but podcasting is an intriguing idea for the show. We'd have to deal with copyright issues due to the music we play." Emily, I glad you turned up in this conversation (and at the same time disappointed because I had hoped to talk about your show in my next episode). I think it would be fantastic if your show became available via podcast, but the licensing/copyright issue is a big one. Brian over at http://coverville.com has been examining licensing issues in relation to his own cast. Although he has paid for ASCAP licensing and feels confident that he has done what is necessary, there are still unresolved issues about making complete songs available within mp3s. While I don't know how big your listener base is at present, I can assure you that, should you find a way to provide your show online, there is a built-in audience waiting for you in communties like this one and throughout the blogosphere. My thoroughly underproduced show has had over 800 downloads of its first episode in just over a week. Imagine what someone with skills, experience and production sensibility could accomplish. Your Ur-Podcaster until further notice, Greg Schwartz http://openstacks.net/os From ashkev at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 14:22:56 2005 From: ashkev at gmail.com (kevin smith) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Open Source Software for Author Chat Message-ID: <ac6abe9705020211222d0965@mail.gmail.com> Dear Web4libbers, Southwest Michigan is participating in a one book one community program. I have set up an on line discussion group using phpbb. This seems to be working fine, however, we are going to have the author participate in an author chat with students at one of the local high schools. The phpbb program has private messaging capabilities but it isn't really set up for a live chat session. Can anyone recommend a good chat program that is free, easy to install and will work for an author chat session? Our website is hosted remotely and I have php and mysql, however, I only have access to a single mysql database, and can't create a new one. Thanks, Kevin Smith Assistant Director Cass District Library From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Feb 2 15:17:14 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: The Ur-Podcast In-Reply-To: <be247d88050202101258c75f05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050202201717.1E30D247F3@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > Karen, I'm taking your initial question to mean 'the first librarian > podcast related to librarianship.' Yes, and might I add, as an unalloyed radio buff, that Open Stacks is a great "listen." > muster (without sponsorship!). I just sit at my computer and blab away Well, you admit to more preparation than just that. :-) Greg, off-list I have some questions for you, but I hope you not only podcast but talk (and write) more about how it's done. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us Wed Feb 2 16:32:24 2005 From: bteschek at hampton.lib.nh.us (Bill Teschek) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Directory browsing allowed Message-ID: <42010098.10757.15FE0A67@localhost> Does anyone know if it is possible to get a list of folders/directories on a website using IIS that have the "directory browsing allowed" box checked? Bill Teschek bteschek@hampton.lib.nh.us From tomkeays at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 16:33:57 2005 From: tomkeays at gmail.com (Tom Keays) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: Anyone recommending YouSendIt in their libraries? Message-ID: <60a2c0c005020213335ba9d53@mail.gmail.com> Working in an academic library setting, I often work with students who, rather than wanting to print an online journal article for a fee on the library's networked printer, opt to email it to themselves. This works fine when the publisher offers a built-in emailing functionality. But not all do. Because our library workstations do not have a mailserver available, the only way students can do this is by downloading the article to the workstation's scratch space, opening a web-based email client, attaching the file and emailing it to themselves. However, students who don't use a web-based email or who are already maxing out their disk quota are out of luck. [BTW, our workstations do support USB thumbdrives, and many students do use those.] YouSendIt seems to be a workable solution. <http://www.yousendit.com/> (Via TidBITS <http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=07970>) It's a free Web service that's about as simple as you could imagine. On the YouSendIt Web page, you fill in the recipient's email address, click the Browse button to locate the file you want to send, optionally enter your email address and a message, and click the Send It button. The recipient then receives an email message containing a link that downloads the file. If you don't want to reveal your recipient's address to YouSendIt, just send the link to yourself and forward it manually with whatever additional text you'd like to add. Files can be up to 1 GB in size, and YouSendIt scans all files for viruses (not being a virus-infected Windows user, I don't know what happens if they discover a virus in something you send). Files remain available for 7 days and allow only a limited number of downloads to prevent abuse. The recipient can also click a link to delete the file after downloading. If you want secure transfers, you can switch to a version of the page that uses secure HTTP for both you and your recipient; of course, that assumes you trust YouSendIt in general. You can even put a link like the one below on your Web site that others can use to send you files via YouSendIt. http://www.yousendit.com/ ? recipient= sample@ yousendit.com -- Tom Keays / tomkeays@gmail.com From DobbsA at apsu.edu Wed Feb 2 16:59:33 2005 From: DobbsA at apsu.edu (Dobbs, Aaron) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Directory browsing allowed Message-ID: <B970A5F37937204A90CE91BBE10915A1ADAA8F@APBREXC.apsu.edu> Microsoft answer: "It depends". Tongue in cheek aside, if you start from a directory that has directory browsing "allowed" you can arguably browse the tree (depending on IIS version) unless a sub- or super-directory specifically requires authentication. (NT permissions in addition to IIS anonymous user or other IIS level permissions) In practice, I have directory browsing "enabled" for some folders in the "middle" of a path ( i.e. mydomain.edu/stuff/browse-enabled/not-browse-enabled/end-files.ext ) for ease of development. Anonymous users are not able to go "down" the tree (toward the root of the site) but can go "up" (toward the end files) the tree from the browseable directory with one exception - if the sub-directory has a default.htm (or another default file type that is configured in IIS) then the visitor using a browser is brought to that default page instead of the folder listing. N.b. If you enable directory browse and also specify a default filename in IIS (and that filename exists in the directory) most browsers bring up the default file rather than the directory listing, for me. (tested on IE, FF0.9, FF0.8) -Aaron :-)' Aaron W. Dobbs, MSLS A+, MCDBA, MCSE+I, Network+ Network Services Librarian Austin Peay State University -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Bill Teschek Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 3:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Directory browsing allowed Does anyone know if it is possible to get a list of folders/directories on a website using IIS that have the "directory browsing allowed" box checked? Bill Teschek bteschek@hampton.lib.nh.us From kunkle at sonoma.lib.ca.us Wed Feb 2 18:19:22 2005 From: kunkle at sonoma.lib.ca.us (Stephanie Kunkle) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:04 2005 Subject: POST JOB ANNOUNCEMENT Message-ID: <s200ef9c.056@CENTRAL_SVR2> SONOMA COUNTY LIBRARYSanta Rosa, CA POSITION TITLELIBRARIAN IV IN BIBLIOGRAPHIC SERVICES SALARY RANGE:$71,385 - $86,777 CLOSING DATE:5:00 P.M., February 18, 2005 DEFINITIONUnder general direction supervises and coordinates all library bibliographic services and does related work as required. This is an administrative line position, responsible for Bibliographic Services personnel and operations and serves as a member of the Library's senior management team, formulating, monitoring and evaluating the implementation and effectiveness of policies, practices and procedures related to Technical Services operations, ensuring policies and procedures represent public service needs. TYPICAL TASKSManages the Integrated library system portion of cost accounting of the Library's materials budget, including processing orders, invoices, claims, and all reports. Controls bibliographic authority control for the Library, including monographs, serials, and non-print media. Supervises and coordinates all cataloging, acquisitions, and processing activities within the Technical Services Division; supervises or generates reports on activities, item ownership, as needed. Manages the Library delivery system. Acts in the capacity of Library Systems Administrator and Technical Services Manager in the absence of the latter. Interprets and integrates bibliographic services functions into system wide operations and initiatives. KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITIESKnowledge of: modern library purposes, services and techniques; modern cataloging techniques and technology, and budgeting, accounting, and reporting relative to a library materials budget. Ability to: plan, assign and direct the work of others; develop and evaluate competent supervisors; analyze problem situations and to take effective courses of action; and perform complex professional library work. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONSGraduation from a college or university approved by an accrediting association of more than statewide standing, plus a Master's degree from an ALA- accredited institution, plus five years of appropriate professional experience in a library or libraries of recognized standing the last three of which shall have been in increasingly responsible positions. HOW TO APPLY:Application Packet: Applications must include a letter of interest and intent, a completed Sonoma County Public Library application form, a detailed resume, and the answers to the supplemental questionnaire. A resume does not stand in lieu of the application form. APPLICATIONS:Application forms may be obtained:ONLINE via job pages at www.sonoma.lib.ca.us/libinfo/jobs/index.html E-MAIL by contacting kunkle@sonoma.lib.ca.usIN PERSON at the Administration Office of the Central Library, 3rd & E Streets, Santa Rosa, CA. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From gerrymck at iastate.edu Sat Feb 5 11:46:38 2005 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:08 2005 Subject: [ARL-EJOURNAL] Presentation Software/OtherMedia Wiki(s)? Message-ID: <list-4327090@arl.org> Colleagues/ It has occurred to me that collaborative composition/editing/publishing need not be limited to standard text (e.g., Wikipedia) (w/wo photos/images/graphics) and that perhaps a the wiki framework could/might/does offer the possibly of collaborative preparation (PPT) presentations. By any chance has any created a (PPT) PresentationWiki? [or considered OtherMediaWikis (e.g., images, videos, audio)?] Regards /Gerry Gerry McKiernan Presentable Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu "To Limit Possibilities Limits Possibilities" [:-) ############################################################# This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list <ARL-EJOURNAL@arl.org>. To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <ARL-EJOURNAL-off@arl.org> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <ARL-EJOURNAL-digest@arl.org> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <ARL-EJOURNAL-index@arl.org> Send administrative queries to <ARL-EJOURNAL-request@arl.org> Vist the web archive at <https://mx2.arl.org/Lists/ARL-EJOURNAL/> From kgs at bluehighways.com Sun Feb 6 10:47:17 2005 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (K.G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: public library usage statistics In-Reply-To: <9DE2996D5E4D7145BF5B9A9D9F3E40C802003822@exchange2.hclib.org> Message-ID: <20050206154715.1ACA225535@frontend3.messagingengine.com> > While Larry's points are valid, I don't know that all hope is lost. If > you and I both use web servers that log using the common format and we > use the same software program to evaluate our web logs we can compare > apples and apples. Even if we use different programs, we may be able to > configure them so we are comparing Cortands with Macintoshes. HCL uses > Webtrends, a popular web log analysis software, for example. Our weekly > reports are available on the Internet, contact me for details. Our newer stats for Librarians' Index are not publicly available, but I'd be happy to walk someone through them. What I am doing is ensuring we gather and report as many formats as possible... hits with bots, hits without bots, visits, etc... and documenting how we gathered the content. Karen G. Schneider kgs@bluehighways.com From bernies at uillinois.edu Sun Feb 6 15:37:53 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Free Virtual Reference Software Message-ID: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF744@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> You might want to take a look at the RAKIM software, although I haven't heard much about it recently. There are also a number of libraries that use freely available IM software to do virtual reference. I'm sure some of them will chime in in response to your question. Here's a description from the RAKIM FAQ: RAKIM is a PHP/SQL-based chat service, designed specifically with libraries in mind. Here is an overview of some of its features: * completely browser-based; * multiple simultaneous librarians; * each librarian can answer multiple, simultaneous patrons; * patron referral to another librarian; * invite another librarian (and stay in chat); * librarian-to-librarian chat; * personal bookmarks and prepared messages; * shared bookmarks and messages; * "push" URLs to patron; * transcripts; * others..... The FAQ is available through: http://tinyurl.com/3w8td Bernie Sloan -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Hongbin Liu Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Free Virtual Reference Software Greetings, Can anybody recommend some free virtual reference (or chat reference) software for an academic library? Thanks, Hongbin Liu University of New Orleans Library From phenriksen at neflin.org Sun Feb 6 17:58:52 2005 From: phenriksen at neflin.org (Phalbe Henriksen) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:08 2005 Subject: ?sound domes -- Brown Innovations -- Cone of Silence In-Reply-To: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF744@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> References: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF744@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200502061758.AA58520149@neflin.org> Folks, Brown Innovations has some competetion: http://www.soundtube.com The Florida Museum of Natural History has two of them, the FP (Focus Point) model. I couldn't tell the quality -- it was the sound of ocean waves, so who knows? Phalbe Henriksen Director Bradford County Public Library Starke, FL ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From CHHammer at olivet.edu Mon Feb 7 10:05:46 2005 From: CHHammer at olivet.edu (Craighton Hippenhammer) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Free Virtual Reference Software Message-ID: <s2072f73.069@azrael.olivet.edu> We use AIM, which we find better than several of the VR products out there. There's still the problem of not much activity from the students, but it's been picking up some now that we pushed the service in our freshman comp classes this Spring. Craighton Hippenhammer Library Information Technology Olivet Nazarene University Bourbonnais, IL 60914 chhammer@olivet.edu >>> "Sloan, Bernie" <bernies@uillinois.edu> 2/6/2005 2:47:26 PM >>> You might want to take a look at the RAKIM software, although I haven't heard much about it recently. There are also a number of libraries that use freely available IM software to do virtual reference. I'm sure some of them will chime in in response to your question. Here's a description from the RAKIM FAQ: RAKIM is a PHP/SQL-based chat service, designed specifically with libraries in mind. Here is an overview of some of its features: * completely browser-based; * multiple simultaneous librarians; * each librarian can answer multiple, simultaneous patrons; * patron referral to another librarian; * invite another librarian (and stay in chat); * librarian-to-librarian chat; * personal bookmarks and prepared messages; * shared bookmarks and messages; * "push" URLs to patron; * transcripts; * others..... The FAQ is available through: http://tinyurl.com/3w8td Bernie Sloan -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Hongbin Liu Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Free Virtual Reference Software Greetings, Can anybody recommend some free virtual reference (or chat reference) software for an academic library? Thanks, Hongbin Liu University of New Orleans Library From bernies at uillinois.edu Mon Feb 7 11:01:09 2005 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: Publishers concerned about Google's scanning project Message-ID: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF771@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> >From today's online version of the Chronicle of Higher Education: "Some publishing groups say that Google's ambitious project to scan millions of library volumes and make them searchable could run afoul of copyright laws, and that Google should get permission from publishers before proceeding... some publishing-industry officials say that even scanning a book and offering brief excerpts without the publishers' permission could violate copyright because scanning the book would represent a reproduction of the work, and the copying would have been done by a commercial entity rather than the library that purchased the book." The full article is in the "Today's News" section for February 7 (unfortunately it's only available online to subscribers): Young, Jeffrey R. Publishing Groups Say Google's Library-Scanning Effort May Violate Copyright Laws. (Today's News). Chronicle of Higher Education (online version). February 7, 2005. Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 Champaign, IL 61820 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From SHoughton at co.marin.ca.us Mon Feb 7 11:19:31 2005 From: SHoughton at co.marin.ca.us (Houghton, Sarah) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Free Virtual Reference Software Message-ID: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF380545A2CA@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> Hi all, We use Trillian (a free IM aggregator) to receive chat questions from AOL, MSN, and Yahoo chat clients. It works well, and so far we're very happy with it. While AOL still has the bulk of the IM market, it doesn't have all of it by any means. We felt it was important to allow users to come in using a variety of chat clients--whatever they already have installed. We wouldn't want them to have to install a particular chat client just to match up with what we, at the library, have chosen to use. Sarah Houghton e-Services Librarian Marin County Free Library San Rafael, California -----Original Message----- From: Sloan, Bernie [mailto:bernies@uillinois.edu] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 12:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Free Virtual Reference Software You might want to take a look at the RAKIM software, although I haven't heard much about it recently. There are also a number of libraries that use freely available IM software to do virtual reference. I'm sure some of them will chime in in response to your question. Here's a description from the RAKIM FAQ: RAKIM is a PHP/SQL-based chat service, designed specifically with libraries in mind. Here is an overview of some of its features: * completely browser-based; * multiple simultaneous librarians; * each librarian can answer multiple, simultaneous patrons; * patron referral to another librarian; * invite another librarian (and stay in chat); * librarian-to-librarian chat; * personal bookmarks and prepared messages; * shared bookmarks and messages; * "push" URLs to patron; * transcripts; * others..... The FAQ is available through: http://tinyurl.com/3w8td Bernie Sloan -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Hongbin Liu Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Free Virtual Reference Software Greetings, Can anybody recommend some free virtual reference (or chat reference) software for an academic library? Thanks, Hongbin Liu University of New Orleans Library Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm From ryaneby at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 12:20:22 2005 From: ryaneby at gmail.com (Ryan Eby) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Free Virtual Reference Software In-Reply-To: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF380545A2CA@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> References: <43CCBAE21D63614C806E5B60947CBF380545A2CA@EVS01.co.marin.ca.us> Message-ID: <c808aa39050207092071dc9c6c@mail.gmail.com> While not for a library, for other sideprojects I've set up Jabber servers. What's nice is that it can interface with the various IM systems while using an open protocol. The XML format of the data has come in handy a few times with projects and makes building systems around it much easier. Data logging and analysis is also fairly easy with the format. I believe there are even components to log the data into various databases now. If the library has some IT expertise it might be worthwhile to set-up. Another benefit is that you can set up small jabber clients on the public PC's and the data can stay within the local network. It does take a bit more time and effort to set-up though, instead of just downloading trillian or a similar client. Ryan Eby On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:22:16 -0800 (PST), Houghton, Sarah <SHoughton@co.marin.ca.us> wrote: > Hi all, > > We use Trillian (a free IM aggregator) to receive chat questions from AOL, MSN, and Yahoo chat clients. It works well, and so far we're very happy with it. While AOL still has the bulk of the IM market, it doesn't have all of it by any means. We felt it was important to allow users to come in using a variety of chat clients--whatever they already have installed. We wouldn't want them to have to install a particular chat client just to match up with what we, at the library, have chosen to use. > > Sarah Houghton > e-Services Librarian > Marin County Free Library > San Rafael, California > From bzhang at csus.edu Mon Feb 7 13:23:14 2005 From: bzhang at csus.edu (Bin Zhang) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: Chinese Digital Project Survey Message-ID: <1D03DE56D5CE824D8BE9ED929E74E174013BF762@library1b.lib.csus.edu> Note: Please disregard if this message is irrelevant to you. *********************************************************** Dear fellow librarians, library administrators and IT personnel, You are cordially invited to participate in a survey if your library has a Chinese digital collection project (regardless of current status or phases). This survey is a part of a research on the metadata of Chinese digital collection projects in non-Chinese speaking countries. The survey is to find out the current philosophies, strategies, approaches that each Chinese digital project takes to handle the metadata definition, collection, organization, and information retrieval. Please share your experience, reflections, and plans for the future. All the personal, organizational, library and project identification information you provide in the survey will be kept confidential unless you choose otherwise at the end of the survey forms. Survey analyses, however, will be shared by all participants, and possibly be used in future research, cooperation, and publishing. We believe this research will not only help Chinese digital projects to improve their information organization and retrieval techniques, but also be helpful to establishing a network among Chinese digital collection projects in non-Chinese speaking countries for the potential communication. Due to the technically intense nature of the survey, we set up 2 forms in the survey: Survey I is for project managers. The purpose is to collect general information about the project: http://digital.lib.csus.edu/survey/index.php?sid=3 Survey II is for technical personnel (including metadata catalogers, system administrators, etc.) The purpose is to collect technical information about the project: http://digital.lib.csus.edu/survey/index.php?sid=4 Please be noted: the survey ends on "03-31-2005". For any questions, please contact: Bin Zhang Digital Information Services Librarian Library Information Systems California State University, Sacramento +1(916)278-5664(voice); +1(916)278-3891(fax) bzhang@csus.edu Your participation is encouraged. We would deeply appreciate your input! From louisl at uhls.lib.ny.us Mon Feb 7 14:19:52 2005 From: louisl at uhls.lib.ny.us (Laurie Louis) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: USB Flash Drives and Fortres Message-ID: <006d01c50d4a$0020d5a0$7101a8c0@AlbanyPublicLibrary.org> Alnisa, Thanks for posting this - it works like a charm with Fortres in place. Laurie Louis Albany Public Library ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From kcoyle at kcoyle.net Mon Feb 7 14:36:46 2005 From: kcoyle at kcoyle.net (Karen Coyle) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Publishers concerned about Google's scanning project In-Reply-To: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF771@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> References: <B541AA7C7356014BA26BE8A5D72B89AF4FF771@pbmail.ui.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <4207C34E.8070007@kcoyle.net> But note that the AAP came out publicly and said that they weren't going to take legal action (see: http://blog.librarylaw.com/librarylaw/2004/12/publishers_on_b.html) That doesn't mean that individual publishers might not, but a group action would make more sense. kc Sloan, Bernie wrote: >>From today's online version of the Chronicle of Higher Education: > >"Some publishing groups say that Google's ambitious project to scan >millions of library volumes and make them searchable could run afoul of >copyright laws, and that Google should get permission from publishers >before proceeding... some publishing-industry officials say that even >scanning a book and offering brief excerpts without the publishers' >permission could violate copyright because scanning the book would >represent a reproduction of the work, and the copying would have been >done by a commercial entity rather than the library that purchased the >book." > >The full article is in the "Today's News" section for February 7 >(unfortunately it's only available online to subscribers): > >Young, Jeffrey R. Publishing Groups Say Google's Library-Scanning Effort >May Violate Copyright Laws. (Today's News). Chronicle of Higher >Education (online version). February 7, 2005. > >Bernie Sloan >Senior Library Information Systems Consultant, ILCSO >University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting >616 E. Green Street, Suite 213 >Champaign, IL 61820 > >Phone: (217) 333-4895 >Fax: (217) 265-0454 >E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu > > > > > > -- ----------------------------------- Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net ph.: 510-540-7596 fx.: 510-848-3913 mo.: 510-435-8234 ------------------------------------ From tgardner at mcl.org Mon Feb 7 15:03:31 2005 From: tgardner at mcl.org (Tom Gardner) Date: Wed May 18 14:51:13 2005 Subject: Stop Flash Drive Shortcut Message-ID: <CD2A71E74488DC42912497528EF7CE682B318D@m