From bbusch at dticam.dtic.mil Mon May 6 09:21:07 2002 From: bbusch at dticam.dtic.mil (bbusch@dticam.dtic.mil) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:58 2005 Subject: All local county law resources under fire by state legislature Message-ID: <41DD505B71FCD411A55C08002BE29E880FF986@mtrs16.dtic.mil> San Diego County Public Law Library fate is in the hands of the state legislature, to learn more about the issues and answers please listen to Library Director, Charley Dyer, who will be on Tom Fudge's show, "These Days," which airs at 9:00 am on Tuesday, May 7, on 89.5 FM, KBPS. Mr. Dyer will debate the proposed State AB 2648, which recommends stopping local County government funding of facilities and maintenance for the County Law Library program. Mr. Dyer will debate with Jim Gross, who is the lobbyist for this bill. From smarvin at wcupa.edu Mon May 6 10:25:38 2002 From: smarvin at wcupa.edu (Marvin, Stephen G.) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:58 2005 Subject: Virtual Reference Services - Under the Hood Message-ID: Libraries providing virtual reference services in cooperation with other libraries will be presenting the tools they use and discussing the software. In Pennsylvania, LSSI, Docutek and Convey Systems are in use by groups of libraries. Please attend The Virtual Reference Services - Under the Hood program on May 24 at the Nittany Lion Inn in State College, PA. +*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+**+*+*+*+*+*+*+* This workshop has been funded with Federal Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) funds administered by the Office of Commonwealth Libraries. There are many software choices to select for providing Virtual Reference services. This program will explore some of the current successful concepts and programs in development in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Speakers will discuss their implementation, features, advantages, and benefits to the customer. Questions and answer periods will help you learn what you need to start your own virtual services or cooperate among others. A block of rooms has been set aside for this program. Use the code PA0523 for a special rate for this conference. Reservations should be made before May 9th. Please call 800-233-7505. An evening reception at the Nittany Lion Inn is planned for May 23rd. Speakers: Larry Schankman - Mansfield University - a look at Convey Systems. Larry was one of the earliest developers of the Virtual Information Desk for the State System of Higher Education (http://vid.sshe.edu). Currently, Larry is coordinating Convey System among five universities of the state system. He has presented at many national and state conferences. Most recently presenting to the SEPLA and VRD 2001 Conference in Orlando, FL. Berkley Laite - Shippensburg University - a look at Docutek's Virtual Reference Librarian. Berkley is coordinating the activities among many types of libraries in his region from support by an LSTA grant (http://www.vrd.org/conferences/VRD2001/proceedings/laite.shtml). Berkley has presented most recently at the VRD 2001 conference and has written articles on models of library services in CR&L News. Lesley Moyo - Penn State University - University Park - a look at LSSI's Virtual Reference Desk. Lesley is on the steering committee to promote efforts to provide a live reference service among the four statewide resource libraries: Free Library of Philadelphia, Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh, Penn State and the State Library (http://www.de2.psu.edu/faculty/saw4/vrs/about.html). Among her many hats, Lesley is the Gateway Librarian at Penn State and most recently presented Navigation Elements on Library Web Sites - What Works Best? Computers in Libraries 2002, March 14, in Washington, D.C. Lesley is also on the Continuing Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL) Executive committee of IFLA. Stephen Marvin - West Chester University - a look at support tools. Traditional services such as Pathfinders take on new meaning when providing Virtual Reference services. Don't overlook the obvious ways your customers have learned to help themselves and use these resources to enhance your goals toward Virtual Reference. Stephen has made presentations at ACRL, Internet Librarian, InfoToday as well as regional groups. Please return with your check (made payable to Pennsylvania Library Association) no later than May 17, 2002. Send to: Stephen Marvin, FH Green Library West Chester University West Chester, PA 19383 Telephone 610-436-1068, Fax 610-436-2251, Email: smarvin@wcupa.edu Accommodations will be made for persons with special needs. PaLA Member $40 Non-Member $47 Student $35 NAME __________________________________________________________________________ WORK or SCHOOL AFFILIATION________________________________________________________________ PHONE ________________ FAX ____________________E-MAIL______________________ Is this your first time attending a PaLA program meeting? YES ___ NO ___ Are you a new member of PaLA? YES___ NO ___ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Directions to the Nittany Lion Inn http://www.pshs.psu.edu/nittanylioninn/nldirections.asp?page_id=4 From carolp at unr.edu Mon May 6 12:05:25 2002 From: carolp at unr.edu (Carol Parkhurst) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:58 2005 Subject: Applications Development Librarian -- University of Nevada, Reno Message-ID: <331D66B3B29C774E9DB641856AF06B0556ACF9@lucy.irt.unr.edu> > The University of Nevada, Reno, is recruiting an Applications Development Librarian to take the lead in recommending, configuring, designing, and developing applications that will support the library> '> s initiatives to provide user-friendly, integrated access to an extensive and rich collection of licensed electronic resources; unique resources in digital format; materials lacking item-level metadata or finding aids; and tools and resources tailored to meet the teaching, learning, and research needs of specialized university constituencies. For information about the position and how to apply, see http://jobs.unr.edu/ctc. AAEO > > Posted by Carol Parkhurst, Director, Library Information Systems, University of Nevada, Reno > > From bruce at accd.edu Wed May 8 10:46:31 2002 From: bruce at accd.edu (Robert Bruce) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: Mouse problems References: <001901c1e560$906e8db0$e84ae980@smeagol> Message-ID: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 8 11:05:16 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew I. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Message-ID: Bruce, I've switched to optical mice on our public Internet computers. They don't need a mouse pad, are easier to clean and parts don't go missing. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI On Wed, 8 May 2002, Robert Bruce wrote: > Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about > it? > > We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. > > > Thank You for your thoughts. > > Robert Bruce > Director of Information/Communication Technology > Learning Resource Center > St Philip's College > > San Antonio, Texas > > bruce@accd.edu > > From jswift at fplct.org Wed May 8 11:10:06 2002 From: jswift at fplct.org (Jim Swift) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Message-ID: Buy new optical mice. They have no balls to be stolen. Or use jewelry screws to hold them in. This makes it difficult to clean them though. Jim Swift IT Librarian Fairfield Public Library 1080 Old Post Road Fairfield, CT 06430-5996 (203)256-3160 Voice (203)256-3162 Fax jswift@fplct.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robert Bruce Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From HPRINGLE at waukesha.lib.wi.us Wed May 8 11:09:34 2002 From: HPRINGLE at waukesha.lib.wi.us (Howard Pringle) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems Message-ID: We ran into the same situation here. Tried superglueing the retaining rings for awhile but that didn't work too well as we were then unable to remove the accumalted lint, fuss and crud that accumulated inside the mouse. Solution - we changed all publicly accessible mice over to optical. End of problem (and we don't have to swap out mousepads every week or so after they start looking like freshly plowed fields). The opticals (we use Logitech) don't cost that much more and have paid for themselves in reducing the amount of time staff had to pay fiddling with, cleaning and replacing the old mice. Good Luck, J. Howard Pringle hpringle@waukesha.lib.wi.us Library Systems Manager phone: (262) 524-3688 Waukesha Public Library 321 Wisconsin Avenue The opinions expressed are Waukesha, WI 53186 mine, Mine, ALL MINE!! >>> Robert Bruce 05/08/2002 9:52:30 AM >>> Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From ras at anzio.com Wed May 8 11:14:26 2002 From: ras at anzio.com (Bob Rasmussen) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 May 2002, Robert Bruce wrote: > Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about > it? > > We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Were their squeaks really high after that? Regards, ....Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: ras@anzio.com company e-mail: rsi@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com From mrempel at peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca Wed May 8 11:45:37 2002 From: mrempel at peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca (Michelle Rempel) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Mouse problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <02May8.092229mdt.119041@trojan.peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca> Optical mice are definitely the way to go! We switched on our public stations as well and they are highly recommended. Michelle At 09:06 AM 5/8/02, you wrote: >Bruce, > >I've switched to optical mice on our public Internet computers. They don't >need a mouse pad, are easier to clean and parts don't go missing. > >Andrew Mutch >Library Systems Technician >Waterford Township Public Library >Waterford, MI > > > > >On Wed, 8 May 2002, Robert Bruce wrote: > > > Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you > done about > > it? > > > > We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. > > > > > > Thank You for your thoughts. > > > > Robert Bruce > > Director of Information/Communication Technology > > Learning Resource Center > > St Philip's College > > > > San Antonio, Texas > > > > bruce@accd.edu > > > > From thassing at creighton.edu Wed May 8 11:50:38 2002 From: thassing at creighton.edu (Hassing, Tom) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Message-ID: <000601c1f6a8$19a9c6a0$07b18693@ad.creighton.edu> Replacing with optical mice might make sense if the mouse you're replacing is already wasted. But what about perfectly good mice with their balls intact? I've seen one computer lab sparingly use a little dab of superglue to seal in a ball. When it comes time for a quarterly cleaning, the speck of glue is popped apart with a twisting or twicking of a screw driver. And then the thing gets sealed shut again. I would practice to determine the proper amount of glue using mice with missing parts. Using too much would not be a good thing. > >Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? > And what have you done about it? > From tidaniels at springmail.com Wed May 8 11:58:17 2002 From: tidaniels at springmail.com (tidaniels@springmail.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems Message-ID: I am at a public library near a high school and we were having this problem alot. We didn't have the funds to buy optical mice, so I used tape to seal the rings. It doesn't completely solve the problem but it has helped a lot. Tim Daniels South Buncombe Branch Library Asheville, NC On Wed, 8 May 2002 07:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Robert Bruce wrote: Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From BentGa at wwc.edu Wed May 8 12:15:20 2002 From: BentGa at wwc.edu (Gary Benton) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: Film to video conversion Message-ID: We have several 16mm films in our archives we'd like to preserve/archive in digital format. I've studied into the process and have started calling labs. I'd like to convert the films to a format that has the highest resolution possible and will last several years until we transfer to another format. Of the two transfer labs I've talked to, both say digital betacam is the highest quality and least compression. I was hoping to find an uncompressed format, but I'm not sure if there is one right now. DVcam uses compresses twice as much as digital betacam, so the quality is lower. I believe DVD uses even more compression (anyone know for sure?). I'd like the digital video we get from these 16mm films to be HDTV quality, so they'll look good on HDTVs in a few years when more people have them. Are these goals realistic? Are we trying to do the impossible? We'd like to make these films available to alumni and others on VHS tape and DVD. Any suggestions on how to do this? If someone knows of a better forum in which to discuss this, please let me know, and I'll ask there. Thanks in advance, Gary Gary Benton Library Systems Technician Walla Walla College From joe.zeeman at TLCdelivers.com Wed May 8 12:06:35 2002 From: joe.zeeman at TLCdelivers.com (Johan Zeeman) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Mouse problems References: <02May8.092229mdt.119041@trojan.peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00b001c1f6aa$53bc5810$9539910c@unicity.tlcdelivers.com> But be aware that optical mice don't work all that well on very plain surfaces, such as solid color laminate desktops. They tend to think they're not moving if the surface they're being moved over is very plain. So mouse pads may continue to be needed. Joe Zeeman TLC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Rempel" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 11:51 AM Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Mouse problems > Optical mice are definitely the way to go! We switched on our public > stations as well and they are highly recommended. > > Michelle > > At 09:06 AM 5/8/02, you wrote: > >Bruce, > > > >I've switched to optical mice on our public Internet computers. They don't > >need a mouse pad, are easier to clean and parts don't go missing. > > > >Andrew Mutch > >Library Systems Technician > >Waterford Township Public Library > >Waterford, MI > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, 8 May 2002, Robert Bruce wrote: > > > > > Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you > > done about > > > it? > > > > > > We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. > > > > > > > > > Thank You for your thoughts. > > > > > > Robert Bruce > > > Director of Information/Communication Technology > > > Learning Resource Center > > > St Philip's College > > > > > > San Antonio, Texas > > > > > > bruce@accd.edu > > > > > > > From brannocl at hbpl.org Wed May 8 16:15:51 2002 From: brannocl at hbpl.org (Lane Brannock) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <3CD93A46.7E935935@accd.edu> Message-ID: <001c01c1f6cd$26a942c0$b7fea8c0@HBLibrary.org> We bit the bullet and replaced the "standard" mice with optical mice. No moving parts to get "misplaced", and no mouse pads to replace every 3 months either. We used nylon cable ties to discourage the mice from wandering away. -- Lane Brannock, MCP Huntington Beach Public Library (714) 536-5215 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruce Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 07:48 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From gerrymck at iastate.edu Wed May 8 16:33:11 2002 From: gerrymck at iastate.edu (Gerry Mckiernan) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: Library Knowledge Bases Message-ID: Library Knowledge Bases I am greatly interested in learning about other Library Knowledge Bases for inclusion in my working registry KBL(sm): A Registry of Library Knowledge Bases [ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~CYBERSTACKS/KBL.htm ] [I'm particularly fond of the image used for this registry and its associated link :->] Excellent examples of Library Knowledge Bases include VID Knowledge Base 2000-2001 [http://libweb.mnsfld.edu/vid/vid-kb.asp ] and EARS (Electronic Access to Reference Services) [http://library.unn.ac.uk/ears/ ] Perhaps the most sophisticated Knowledge Base is the one planned as part of the OPAL Project, "an eighteen month research project which is exploring the development of a fully automated online 24/7 reference service for students." [BTW: OPAL = Online Personal Academic Librarian] [ http://oulib1.open.ac.uk/wh/research/opal/] "The project team is currently developing and testing a prototype automated reference system designed to answer common questions from [Open University] distance learners." [ http://oulib1.open.ac.uk/wh/research/opal/intro.html ] As Always, Any and All contributions, questions, comments, critiques, or Cosmic Insights, are Most Welcome. Regards /Gerry McKiernan Theoretical Librarian Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu From ASkau at ci.glendale.ca.us Wed May 8 17:12:51 2002 From: ASkau at ci.glendale.ca.us (Skau, Adele) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems Message-ID: <632E757A8E2ED511A5620090279C298BC19504@POWEREDGE> Or, of course you can always do what some libraries did way back in the early '90's when we all went online with InfoPeople--pull out the superglue!!! If you glue the mouse ball and mouse ball cover they definitely won't be going anywhere. Of course the patrons won't get very far in their "surfing" (geez, I hate that phrase) either. ;-) I'm sorry, it's been a long day and I couldn't resist. We've actually been lucky (knock wood) cuz we've only had a couple of mouse balls and one complete mouse disappear. Again, forgive me, I just needed a bit of humor in my day and I don't mean to dismiss your problems. Adele Adele M. Skau Technical Staff Assistant Glendale Public Library Glendale, CA 91205 (818) 548-2183 askau@ci.glendale.ca.us -----Original Message----- From: Lane Brannock [mailto:brannocl@hbpl.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 1:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems We bit the bullet and replaced the "standard" mice with optical mice. No moving parts to get "misplaced", and no mouse pads to replace every 3 months either. We used nylon cable ties to discourage the mice from wandering away. -- Lane Brannock, MCP Huntington Beach Public Library (714) 536-5215 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruce Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 07:48 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you done about it? We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. Thank You for your thoughts. Robert Bruce Director of Information/Communication Technology Learning Resource Center St Philip's College San Antonio, Texas bruce@accd.edu From plum at ulink.net Wed May 8 23:50:27 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems References: <632E757A8E2ED511A5620090279C298BC19504@POWEREDGE> Message-ID: <003e01c1f70c$a8e2f940$560cced1@shapeshi> The optical mouse on our new IMac at the Reference desk is clamped (by the tail/cable) to a lock, along with the other cords to prevent theft. BTW, I loved the query as to whether the mouse had a higher squeek after losing its ball. Ironically, our new photocopier developed a squeek today. --Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skau, Adele" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems > Or, of course you can always do what some libraries did way back in the > early '90's when we all went online with InfoPeople--pull out the > superglue!!! If you glue the mouse ball and mouse ball cover they definitely > won't be going anywhere. Of course the patrons won't get very far in their > "surfing" (geez, I hate that phrase) either. ;-) > > I'm sorry, it's been a long day and I couldn't resist. We've actually been > lucky (knock wood) cuz we've only had a couple of mouse balls and one > complete mouse disappear. > > Again, forgive me, I just needed a bit of humor in my day and I don't mean > to dismiss your problems. > > Adele > > Adele M. Skau > Technical Staff Assistant > Glendale Public Library > Glendale, CA 91205 > (818) 548-2183 > askau@ci.glendale.ca.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lane Brannock [mailto:brannocl@hbpl.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 1:18 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems > > > We bit the bullet and replaced the "standard" mice with optical mice. No > moving parts to get "misplaced", and no mouse pads to replace every 3 > months either. We used nylon cable ties to discourage the mice from > wandering away. > > -- > Lane Brannock, MCP > Huntington Beach Public Library > (714) 536-5215 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] > On Behalf Of Robert Bruce > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 07:48 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Mouse problems > > > Has anyone had a problem with missing mouse parts? And what have you > done about > it? > > We just found 6 missing balls and rings this morning. > > > Thank You for your thoughts. > > Robert Bruce > Director of Information/Communication Technology > Learning Resource Center > St Philip's College > > San Antonio, Texas > > bruce@accd.edu > > > > From lbspodic at ust.hk Wed May 8 23:04:18 2002 From: lbspodic at ust.hk (Edward Spodick, HKUST Library, 2358-6743) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Mouse problems In-Reply-To: <003e01c1f70c$a8e2f940$560cced1@shapeshi> References: <003e01c1f70c$a8e2f940$560cced1@shapeshi> Message-ID: At 6:53 PM -0700 5/8/02 [their time], Nancy Sosna Bohm wrote: >The optical mouse on our new IMac at the Reference desk is clamped (by the >tail/cable) to a lock, along with the other cords to prevent theft. We do the same, along with the super glue trick. Conversion to optical is occurring gradually. Years ago, we even puchased a stock of spare balls. >BTW, I loved the query as to whether the mouse had a higher squeek after >losing its ball. Ironically, our new photocopier developed a squeek today. You might want to look at an old joke IBM memo from 1991: http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1991/1991AAL.html :) -Spode - - - - - Edward F Spodick, Information Technology Manager Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Library lbspodic@ust.hk tel:852-2358-6743 fax:852-2358-1043 From andrewc at mail.vicnet.net.au Mon May 13 04:18:06 2002 From: andrewc at mail.vicnet.net.au (Andrew Cunningham) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] language conversion software References: Message-ID: <3CDF76BE.2F717B0D@mail.vicnet.net.au> Hi, Jenny Paradiso wrote: > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone is using language conversion software on their = > Public Access Computers? > "language conversion" is an inappropriate discription, it is essentially a third party input software that also allows transcoding. > We are considering purchasing 'NJStar Communicator 2.23', which allows the = > user to view, input and convert Chinese, Japanese and Korean characters on = > normal english or western windows. > > Would love to hear from anyone who has been using this software, or = > another package with similar functionality. > What precisely functionality do you want? The fact that you're looking at commercial products rather than free alternatives suggests that you have explicit functional requirements. the cheapest solution is the "free" microsoft one. On Win95/98/ME download teh CJK langauge packs for Internet Explorer (if you're using Netscape 4/6 you'll only be interested in the fonts. Then install the CJK Global IMEs. ON win2000/XP just install the various langauges as you would any other language from the installation cd-rom. Depending on how your IT staff has customised the installation of Windows, this may or may not have already been done. Limitations with this approach: Global IMEs will only work with selected software. Although this isn't a problem with Win2000/XP CJK support (where you just need a unicode aware program). The main limittation is actually with the chinese input. A limited number of input methods are offerred. And from memory if you need pinyin input for traditional chinese you may be out of luck. Among the commercial products Unionway, Twinbridge, NJStar, and RichWin are the ones that first come to mind. There are lots of others. Have a look at Majorie Chan's China Links [http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/deall/chan.9/c-links.htm]. The major difference between each of them is price, choice of input methods and operating systems supported. Best to choose a product that supports the input methods you need. The last version of a survey of home internet/computer usage I saw published by the HK SAR gaovernment indicated less than 30% of users in HK could use chinese input software. I'm assuming that you're patrons would be relatively similar to ours in Vic. in which case you're more established chinese communities are chinese speakers from Vietnam, and Chinese from Hong Kong, Your fastest growing group would probably be from PRC, with a smattering from other locations in south-east asia and the pacific. Knowledge of chinese input methods will not be common. Ability to use a chinese input method is dependant on familiarity with chinese computing and education. Pin Yin input, for instance, is better suited to younger people from PRC who would have learnt varying degrees of pinyin in their early schooling. You may wnat to go for a more expensive option of using graphics tablet input for chinese. Some of the chinese softwrae can integrate with graphic tablets to allow input of hanzi. Specifically, wrt NJStar Communicator, it one of the least expensive IMEs, and very versitile. NJStar is useful for clobbering files with brute force, and I've found it useful when needing to display traditional characters as simplified or simplified as traditional, or when a web server or web page incorrectly identifies the character set (only really required on Netscape4 since more recent browsers allow oyu to override the server or page settings). If third party input software is being used for web based email and creating word processing documents that will be snet to other people, then there a few pitfalls to be aware of. Email to be readable by the recipient needs to have the correct mime type identified. With the newest versions of Office etc, its a good idea to use the softwares language tagging capabilities. Hope this is of some help. Andrew Andrew Cunningham Multilingual Technical Officer Accessibility and Evaluation Unit, Victoria State Library of Victoria Australia andrewc@vicnet.net.au http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://home.vicnet.net.au/~andrewc/ > Thanks in advance, > > Jenny Paradiso > > Jenny Paradiso > Librarian, Information Technology > > West Torrens Libraries > Brooker Terrace > HILTON SA 5033 > Ph: (08) 8416 6255 > Fax: (08) 8234 5170 > email: jparadis@wtcc.sa.gov.au > > West Torrens Libraries... learn, grow and enjoy! > > ********************************************************************* > Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, > this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there > to a plain text message. > ********************************************************************* From hsucal at umich.edu Mon May 13 09:12:39 2002 From: hsucal at umich.edu (Calvin Hsu) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: language conversion software In-Reply-To: <3CDF76BE.2F717B0D@mail.vicnet.net.au> Message-ID: Great information. As to: "if you need pinyin input for traditional chinese you may be out of luck" This is no longer a problem with Global IME bundled with Win2K/XP: just change the IME settings for Traditional Chinese (Control Panel >Regional Options >Input Locales >Traditional Chinese IME >IME settings >middle tab) to "luoma pinyin (R)." --Calvin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Calvin Hsu Coordinator of Public and Information Services Asia Library, University of Michigan 734-764-0408; hsucal@umich.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Cunningham Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 4:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: language conversion software Hi, Jenny Paradiso wrote: > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone is using language conversion software on their = > Public Access Computers? > "language conversion" is an inappropriate discription, it is essentially a third party input software that also allows transcoding. > We are considering purchasing 'NJStar Communicator 2.23', which allows the = > user to view, input and convert Chinese, Japanese and Korean characters on = > normal english or western windows. > > Would love to hear from anyone who has been using this software, or = > another package with similar functionality. > What precisely functionality do you want? The fact that you're looking at commercial products rather than free alternatives suggests that you have explicit functional requirements. the cheapest solution is the "free" microsoft one. On Win95/98/ME download teh CJK langauge packs for Internet Explorer (if you're using Netscape 4/6 you'll only be interested in the fonts. Then install the CJK Global IMEs. ON win2000/XP just install the various langauges as you would any other language from the installation cd-rom. Depending on how your IT staff has customised the installation of Windows, this may or may not have already been done. Limitations with this approach: Global IMEs will only work with selected software. Although this isn't a problem with Win2000/XP CJK support (where you just need a unicode aware program). The main limittation is actually with the chinese input. A limited number of input methods are offerred. And from memory if you need pinyin input for traditional chinese you may be out of luck. Among the commercial products Unionway, Twinbridge, NJStar, and RichWin are the ones that first come to mind. There are lots of others. Have a look at Majorie Chan's China Links [http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/deall/chan.9/c-links.htm]. The major difference between each of them is price, choice of input methods and operating systems supported. Best to choose a product that supports the input methods you need. The last version of a survey of home internet/computer usage I saw published by the HK SAR gaovernment indicated less than 30% of users in HK could use chinese input software. I'm assuming that you're patrons would be relatively similar to ours in Vic. in which case you're more established chinese communities are chinese speakers from Vietnam, and Chinese from Hong Kong, Your fastest growing group would probably be from PRC, with a smattering from other locations in south-east asia and the pacific. Knowledge of chinese input methods will not be common. Ability to use a chinese input method is dependant on familiarity with chinese computing and education. Pin Yin input, for instance, is better suited to younger people from PRC who would have learnt varying degrees of pinyin in their early schooling. You may wnat to go for a more expensive option of using graphics tablet input for chinese. Some of the chinese softwrae can integrate with graphic tablets to allow input of hanzi. Specifically, wrt NJStar Communicator, it one of the least expensive IMEs, and very versitile. NJStar is useful for clobbering files with brute force, and I've found it useful when needing to display traditional characters as simplified or simplified as traditional, or when a web server or web page incorrectly identifies the character set (only really required on Netscape4 since more recent browsers allow oyu to override the server or page settings). If third party input software is being used for web based email and creating word processing documents that will be snet to other people, then there a few pitfalls to be aware of. Email to be readable by the recipient needs to have the correct mime type identified. With the newest versions of Office etc, its a good idea to use the softwares language tagging capabilities. Hope this is of some help. Andrew Andrew Cunningham Multilingual Technical Officer Accessibility and Evaluation Unit, Victoria State Library of Victoria Australia andrewc@vicnet.net.au http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://home.vicnet.net.au/~andrewc/ > Thanks in advance, > > Jenny Paradiso > > Jenny Paradiso > Librarian, Information Technology > > West Torrens Libraries > Brooker Terrace > HILTON SA 5033 > Ph: (08) 8416 6255 > Fax: (08) 8234 5170 > email: jparadis@wtcc.sa.gov.au > > West Torrens Libraries... learn, grow and enjoy! > > ********************************************************************* > Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, > this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there > to a plain text message. > ********************************************************************* From mconroy at ohionet.org Mon May 13 10:38:16 2002 From: mconroy at ohionet.org (Mary Conroy) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [OHIONET] May 30 Copyright in Libraries Conference Message-ID: <45E65FF9FB4BD3118912005004A2B8F0BEC044@ohionetmail.ohionet.org> A Conference sponsored by The OHIONET Reference and Resource Sharing Council Date: May 30, 2002 9:30am - 3:30pm Location: Ohio Wesleyan University Campus Center, Delaware Ohio Featuring: * Kenneth Crews (Director of the Copyright Management Center, Professor of Law, Indiana University) * Nicole McKenna (Copyright Clearance Center) * Discussion of Practical Applications and Scenarios by a Panel of Librarians: * Linda Cornette (OELMA President) * Priscilla Ratliff (Ashland Company) * Marsha Zavar (Ohio Wesleyan University) * Question & Answer Sessions Cost: $75 members; $100 for nonmembers. (after May 8) (Nonmembers and INFOhio members should prepay) Registration and details are available at: http://www.ohionet.org/training/WorkshopDescription.asp?ID=916 or http://www.ohionet.org (see training) Registration deadline: May 22 or earlier if filled. For more information, contact: Mary Conroy mconroy@Ohionet.org or Gene Gummo geneg@ohionet.org For information about confirmations and credit card payments, contact Latasha latasham@ohionet.org 800/686-8975 ext 26 Mary Mlynar Conroy Library Services Coordinator OHIONET, 1500 West Lane Ave, Columbus OH 43221 Fax 614/486-1527 voice 800/686-8975 or 614/486-2966 ext 16 mailto:mconroy@ohionet.org ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From andrewc at mail.vicnet.net.au Mon May 13 19:26:16 2002 From: andrewc at mail.vicnet.net.au (Andrew Cunningham) Date: Wed May 18 14:23:59 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: language conversion software References: Message-ID: <3CE04B98.1261E676@mail.vicnet.net.au> Calvin Hsu wrote: > > Great information. As to: > "if you need pinyin input for traditional chinese you may be out of luck" > This is no longer a problem with Global IME bundled with Win2K/XP: just > change the IME settings for Traditional Chinese (Control Panel >Regional > Options >Input Locales >Traditional Chinese IME >IME settings >middle tab) > to "luoma pinyin (R)." > Thanks Calvin, i was thinking more of Global IME, rather than the Chinese IMEs in Win win2000/XP which are significantly different. The other interesting think with pinyin input is that each piece of software ... it behaves differnetly true pintin would be too slow .. so most versions are an "enhanced" or "super" pinyin ... allowing you to abbreviate pinyin. Some of the software tries to predict what you'll type by what you've typed in teh past. Although probbaly wouldn't get as much mileage on public access computers as you would on a private computer. Andrew Andrew Andrew Cunningham Multilingual Technical Officer Accessibility and Evaluation Unit, Victoria State Library of Victoria Australia andrewc@vicnet.net.au http://www.openroad.net.au/ http://home.vicnet.net.au/~andrewc/ From hck at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu May 16 03:14:35 2002 From: hck at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Heinrich C. Kuhn) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Our usability test results distilled In-Reply-To: <6CA106E86E1BD3119C6D00C00D00977D0E34BBCA@sage.wwcc.cc.wy.us> Message-ID: Dear Robert Kalabus, thanks for your mail to WEB4LIB! It was refreshing to read the results of "your" usability study: IMHO: lots of common sense there - though I have to admit that we sin against quite a number of the recommendations from your study, but in many of these cases I at least know, that it's a sin ... . However: some of the results leave me with some questions. Perhaps there's a simple answer to part of them? > 1. Replace library jargon with simpler words or at least clarify terms > using descriptive text or pop-up boxes. These are some > examples of words > that users do not understand: interlibrary loan, > periodical, new > acquisitions, database, webliography, search engine. What would be an equivalent for "database" that is less arcane than "database"? > 3. Use bright colors rather than muted colors and only > use 12-point > font size or larger. If I take this together with point 7 (lots of links on the main page): It will mean that users will have to scroll. And if I interpret the access logs of our WWW server correctly, there is quite a number of users who tend not to scroll down, and who will thus not see part of the information on the page. Is there a way out of this dilemma? [...] > 7. Do not worry about including too many links on the main page if that > improves efficiency (reduces clicking). "Save the time of the [user]." - > Ranganathan [...] > 9. "I could figure out how to use it if I had to." - Test participant > If someone is not interested in what the library offers, it does not make > any difference how well-designed the library web site is. (Memo to the > bibliographic instruction department: "If you want to build a ship, don't > drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and > work, but rather teach them to long for the endless > immensity of the sea." - > Antoine de Saint Exupery) How do I teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea? Thanks again for your posting, thanks in advance for any reply to this mail, best wishes and best regards Heinrich C. Kuhn +--------------------------------------------------------- | Dr. Heinrich C. Kuhn | Seminar fuer Geistesgeschichte der Renaissance | Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen | D-80539 Muenchen / Ludwigstr. 31/IV | T.: +49-89-2180 2018, F.: +49-89-2180 2907 | inst. URL: http://www.phil-hum-ren.uni-muenchen.de/ +--------------------------------------------------------- From Karen.V.Odato at Dartmouth.EDU Thu May 16 09:01:41 2002 From: Karen.V.Odato at Dartmouth.EDU (Karen V. Odato) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: October Conference: Call for Presenters Message-ID: <67506955@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> FIRST CALL FOR PRESENTERS!! (And save the date!) Cross posted. Please excuse the duplication. Please consider presenting at Dartmouth Biomedical Libraries' sixth annual October Conference for New England Librarians! The topic this year is "The Web: Super Searching, Super Teaching." Scheduled for Thursday, October 31, 2002, this day-long event will be held at Dartmouth College in lovely Hanover, New Hampshire (an easy two-hour drive from Boston, Springfield, and many other New England locations). Mary Ellen Bates will be the featured speaker. Mary Ellen is the principal of Bates Information Services, Inc. (www.BatesInfo.com), and the author of five books about online research, including "Super Searchers Cover the World", "Mining for Gold on the Internet", and "Researching Online for Dummies." A lively speaker and writer, she has been online since the 1970s. Mary Ellen will focus on advanced Web searching in the morning's session. She'll speak for an hour after lunch about teaching Web searching. We are seeking additional speakers to discuss how they teach Web searching to their users. Have you developed any successful techniques for conveying Web searching techniques to groups in limited time frames? Hands-on, demonstration sessions, online tutorials? Would you like to give an informal, brief presentation (30 minutes including question/discussion time)? If so, please contact me (by telephone or email) by June 14 - the sooner the better. (You don't have to have your presentation finished by then; you just need to be able to describe your presentation to us.) We have had between 70 and 120 participants at each of our five previous conferences (please see ); we expect similar attendance this year. We hope to hear from you soon. Karen Odato karen.odato@dartmouth.edu 603-650-8562 From cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca Thu May 16 11:43:13 2002 From: cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Gray) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Our usability test results distilled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Heinrich C. Kuhn wrote: > > 9. "I could figure out how to use it if I had to." - Test participant > > If someone is not interested in what the library offers, it does not make > > any difference how well-designed the library web site is. (Memo to the > > bibliographic instruction department: "If you want to build a ship, don't > > drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and > > work, but rather teach them to long for the endless > > immensity of the sea." - > > Antoine de Saint Exupery) > > How do I teach them to long for the endless immensity of > the sea? This is an excellent question. As a suggestion for where to start, I would highly recommend the section "Example 4: University Research Lab" from Chapter 1 of Philip Greenspun's book . Then read the whole chapter. In a nutshell, avoid the "design recapitulates bureaucracy" trap. Give your users good content covering their initial interests right up front and show them how to enrich that through what the library offers. Your community of users doesn't live in the library, they live in a university or a college, in a city or a town. Think of yourself not as building a library site but as building a site in that larger community. Collaborate with that community. For example, a university librarian could get a professor or a graduate student working in a specific field to write a general article on a local research or teaching specialty with links directly to important library holdings that they rely on. Make it possible for visitors to add comments so that people can mention other resources they use or like. The more primary content on your site the more others will find it through search engines and link to it. If it blurs the distinction between the library's web site and the web site's of academic departments, all the better. Staff and patron contributed reviews of favorite novels would work wonders for a public library site. Think of it as content rich metadata. A good site to look at is Amazon.com. Notice their "So You'd Like to...", "The Page You Made", and "Friends & Favorites" features. Chris Gray Library Systems University of Waterloo From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Thu May 16 11:59:55 2002 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Publishing opportunity Message-ID: Posted on behalf of Mariana Regalado , please do not reply to me. Roy Begin forwarded message: > From: Mariana Regalado > Date: Wed May 08, 2002 01:44:22 PM America/Halifax > Subject: Publishing opportunity > > Please excuse cross-postings. > > You are invited to submit proposed articles for a special issue of > Academic Exchange Quarterly entitled "The Many Faces of Information > Competence." The issue is co-edited by Michael Adams of the City > University of New York Graduate Center and Mariana Regalado of Brooklyn > College. > > Academic librarians are increasingly instructing targeted groups > within the academic environment. Such groups include freshman learning > communities, international students, graduate students, and faculty. > Each > of these groups is far from homogenous because of the diversity of their > expectations of libraries and their information-seeking experiences. > Even > into the twenty-first century, many faculty members, for example, are > reluctant to use electronic resources. > > How can we develop instruction programs that will address the shared > needs of such groups and the diverse needs of individuals? What > assessment > tools are available to measure the success of such programs? How can we > identify constituencies being underserved? > > Manuscripts are sought that describe successful (and even > unsuccessful) approaches to information literacy for targeted groups > and/or diverse populations in higher education. Manuscripts are also > sought that report on quantitative or qualitative evaluations of the > impact of information literacy programs, courses, and components of > courses. A wide variety of approaches to this topic are sought. > > Academic Exchange Quarterly is a scholarly journal fostering > education, career growth, and personal development for college and > university faculty. Its current issue deals with "The Scholarship of > Teaching and Learning," and recent issues have focused on such topics as > assessment of academics, services, and administration and student > perceptions, beliefs, and attitudes. Over 23,000 institutions and > individuals subscribe to the print edition of Academic Exchange > Quarterly, > and it is available electronically from Expanded Academic ASAP and > InfoTrac OneFile. Scholars from 263 colleges and universities in 44 > states and 22 foreign countries have published in the journal. > > Additional information is available at > http://rapidintellect.com/AEQweb/fall03.htm. > > Submit proposals to Michael Adams at madams@gc.cuny.edu. The > manuscript deadline will be May 2003. > > Please share this message with any librarians or faculty members who > may be interested. > > > From Sarah_Graham at emerson.edu Thu May 16 15:01:57 2002 From: Sarah_Graham at emerson.edu (Sarah Graham) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Journal Lists Message-ID: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164C5@mail.emerson.edu> How many of you are using solutions such as TDnet, Serials Solutions, JWC, etc. to manage your electronic serials subscriptions, and what are you calling this list/database on your public web site? Ours is called "Journal Locator" but this is confusing to users, and I'm wanting to get an idea of other names, e.g. "List of Electronic Journals," "Journals List." If you could email me privately, I will post a summary if people are interested. Sarah ______________________________ Sarah Graham Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian Emerson College Library email: sarah_graham@emerson.edu phone: (617) 824-8332 fax: (617) 824-7811 ______________________________ From carver.50 at osu.edu Thu May 16 15:28:32 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Great Thread on Library Usability on Sigia-l Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516152445.01723ba0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Hi All, The Sigia-l list is having a great thread on usability and cross database searching. The archives are here (by thread): http://mail.asis.org/pipermail/sigia-l/2002-May/thread.html The thread title is "multiple search index usability/conceptual model " Check it out if usability and site wide searches interest you. Lots O' librarians on the Information Architecture lists. ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries carver.50@osu.edu 247-7424 From htabatabai at ucok.edu Thu May 16 15:50:06 2002 From: htabatabai at ucok.edu (Habib Tabatabai) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Journal Lists In-Reply-To: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164C5@mail.emerson.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c1fd12$e0990d50$31709acc@htabatabai> We recently signed the contract and still are in the process of putting everything together. We have no name yet. 8-) Habib Tabatabai Coordinator of Automated Services Chambers Library University of Central Oklahoma 100 N. University Dr. Edmond, OK 73034 htabatabai@ucok.edu Phone: 405-974-2865 Fax: 405-974-3806 -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Graham Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Journal Lists How many of you are using solutions such as TDnet, Serials Solutions, JWC, etc. to manage your electronic serials subscriptions, and what are you calling this list/database on your public web site? Ours is called "Journal Locator" but this is confusing to users, and I'm wanting to get an idea of other names, e.g. "List of Electronic Journals," "Journals List." If you could email me privately, I will post a summary if people are interested. Sarah ______________________________ Sarah Graham Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian Emerson College Library email: sarah_graham@emerson.edu phone: (617) 824-8332 fax: (617) 824-7811 ______________________________ From aj0386 at wayne.edu Thu May 16 18:48:06 2002 From: aj0386 at wayne.edu (Michael Piper) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Automated testing applications such as Silk from Segue? Message-ID: Dear colleagues, DALNET, the Detroit Area Library Network, provides a centrally hosted integrated library system for 22 members in southeast Michigan. We're investigating the feasibility of automating our testing regime for new versions of the ILS software, to speed our ability to implement upgrades, and to provide better member service. We are looking at automated testing applications such as Segue?s Silk offering (http://www.segue.com/). Are any of you familiar with this product, or can you recommend comparable packages that have worked well for you? Please accept my thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer, along with apologies for duplicates of this cross-posted message. Michael Piper, Director Detroit Area Library Network Science and Engineering Library - Sixth Floor Wayne State University Detroit MI 48202 mcpiper@wayne.edu 313/577-4984 Fax: 313/577-1231 From mwhang at hawaii.edu Thu May 16 19:38:10 2002 From: mwhang at hawaii.edu (Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Our usability test results distilled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: HEINRICH C. KUHN WROTE: ------------------- 1. Replace library jargon with simpler words or at least clarify terms using descriptive text or pop-up boxes. These are some examples of words that users do not understand: interlibrary loan, periodical, new acquisitions, database, webliography, search engine. What would be an equivalent for "database" that is less arcane than "database"? KEYPOINTS ------------- I agree. Insider terminology makes it difficult for novice users to match their goals and tasks with the research tools that libraries provide on their site. Terms that Heinrich highlighted: > interlibrary loan > periodical > new acquisitions > webliography are strictly controlled vocabulary that university students will probably need to learn as they progress towards graduate studies. These are staple terms in academia just like TCP/IP and SSH are staple terms for a Network Administrator, but to new students, for example, these terms are completely unfamiliar and need to be put into context in order for users to complete their tasks. SOLUTION 01 ------------------------- There are a number of ways of solving a semantic problem like this. One way is to cluster related links together so that users gain meaning through associative links. For example: RESEARCH TOOLS Online Library Catalog Databases and Article Indexes Research Guides by Subject Tutorials to Help You Search for Articles However this solution requires a whole re-engineering of the site's architecture, navigation, and content requirements. This works best for someone redesigning an existing site or someone building a new site from scratch. SOLUTION 02 --------------- Another approach is to use contextual help, or tool tips, afforded by HTML and CSS itself. You can embed words or string of words using the tag and its associated *title="tool tip content here."* attribute to provide end-users with some definitions for tricky terms. For instance, EXAMPLE ---------- Onscreen view: Selecting a database to find articles on Sociology HTML view: Selecting a database to find an article on Sociology Tooltip view: Think of a database as a type of book index where you access its contents not by flipping through its pages like a book, but rather through a computer by typing in search terms as you do for an online search engine such as Google or the online library catalog. Of course the tooltip illustrated here is a bit long because I used a familiar term (book) to help associate meaning to an unfamiliar library tool (database). To see a clear example, scan for the acronym *MPL* and place your mouse over the three-letter acronym in the first paragraph of text of this site I created for the Manoa Public Library: http://www.state.hi.us/hsl/mpl/index2.htm Michael From mwhang at hawaii.edu Thu May 16 19:45:47 2002 From: mwhang at hawaii.edu (Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Great Thread on Library Usability on Sigia-l In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516152445.01723ba0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: BLAKE CARVER WROTE: ----------------- Large libraries have an endless array of products available on a cavernous wed site that usually does a poor job of pointing the beginning user to where they need to be. Most of the time they fail to even give the user a starting point. e.g., try to answer this question using most library web sites: What is the best Database to use for finding articles in Sociology? I doubt it can be done, but this is how people approach me at the reference desk every day, and I imagine it's how they approach the site every day as well. KEYPOINTS ------------- Blake, I've also compiled a list of library usability projects over the years and focused much of my graduate research in library interface design and development, and I agree that there are some common problems related to user task analysis and user task workflows attached to many library sites. To help users answer the question, "What's the best database to use for finding articles in Sociology?" I think librarians need to redefine their approach and take a more systematic one to designing their sites. For example, if I were designing the *Databases and Article Index* portion of the site, I would call upon my user profiles--undergrads, grads, and faculty--to help me map out the task required for each group. Mapping out the tasks for each unique group or profile allows me to design in scenarios and storyboard the interactions required to complete the task. Some techniques that I've used and found helpful for doing some of this road mapping are Use Cases/UML or flowcharts for example. For the undergrad group, I would create a Subject Guides category for those browsing and are unsure of which database to use. Here, you would pay close attention to database descriptions and help users evaluate the contents of the database. Hence the keywords: browsing and evaluating. In addition, I would also make available links to tutorials and workshops on searching for articles in the library. For the grad and faculty group, I would create a search box for known-item searching, as well as an A-Z listing of databases just in case the search index doesn't recover from misspellings and returns with zero results. In the case of searching for known-items, this is where controlled vocabulary and thesauri becomes important because the software can query against tables of synonyms and variant spellings. Michael From mwhang at hawaii.edu Thu May 16 19:55:01 2002 From: mwhang at hawaii.edu (Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Our usability test results distilled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: CHRIS GRAY WROTE: -------------- In a nutshell, avoid the "design recapitulates bureaucracy" trap. Give your users good content covering their initial interests right up front and show them how to enrich that through what the library offers. Your community of users doesn't live in the library, they live in a university or a college, in a city or a town. Think of yourself not as building a library site but as building a site in that larger community. Collaborate with that community. Again, I think what Chris suggests goes along with what I mentioned previously about user tasks and goal requirements. If the site is dynamic, in this case ASP or PHP, developers can help the user find what it she/he is looking for by providing *information scents* to desired items, or breadcrumbs if you will. Think of this mailing list as an example where topics are presented by posters and posters also provide individual opinions, evidence-based research and URLs, tips-and-tricks, etc. to list members who in turn use this information to do their jobs better. I think by building community as Chris points out, library web developers can help their content managers bubble content up to the surface, revealing other information resources and services that may go overlooked because of a site's deep hierarchy. That's my opinion. EXAMPLES -------- http://www.boxesandarrows.com/ http://www.adobe.com/ http://www.macromedia.com/ http://www.devshed.com/ DevShed is a good example because it's a site that gives you instructions on how to do stuff, very much like a library site except with banner ads, and also has an online forum to keep in touch with the topics that are of interest to you. -- ----- One example comes to mind when I think of this scenario is when I go to Tower Records to browse for music. That place is a deliberate mess, cluttered with posters and advertisement that obscures the store's signage, forcing me to look around the store more than I need to. I also quite can't figure how the CDs are alphabetically arranged on the shelves. Is it by artists' first name or by last name? Either way, I spend more time in the store than necessary. The point is Tower Records deliberately confuses its customers because more time spent in the store may equate to more money spent. But for a library website, we don't want to confuse users. It's quite the opposite. Michael From isidro at cindoc.csic.es Fri May 17 01:10:43 2002 From: isidro at cindoc.csic.es (isidro@cindoc.csic.es) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Search engines Message-ID: <200205170510.g4H5Ah8H006880@chico.rediris.es> Dear all: I am preparing some slides for a workshop and I intend to present the relationships among major actors in web search recovery. I prepared the following Table but I am not sure about it. Comments and suggestions wecomed. Site Search engine Directory Other GOOGLE GOOGLE ODP YAHOO GOOGLE YAHOO ALEXA GOOGLE nd ALEXA NETSCAPE GOOGLE ODP ALTAVISTA ALTAVISTA LOOKSMART HOTBOT INKTOMI ODP iWON INKTOMI nd OUVERTURE MSN SEARCH INKTOMI LOOKSMART LOOKSMART INKTOMI LOOKSMART LYCOS FAST ODP ALLTHEWEB FAST nd SCIRUS TEOMA TEOMA nd WISENUT WISENUT (LOOKSMART) ODP ODP ODP OVERTURE OVERTURE OVERTURE ASK JEEVES (TEOMA) ODP -- ____________________________________ Isidro F. Aguillo University of New South Gales (UNSW) Quadrangle Bldg. Lvl. 2. Off. 2099 Sydney, NSW 2052. Australia Tf. (02) 385 4413 Fx. (02) 662 4061 isidro@cindoc.csic.es ____________________________________ From isidro at cindoc.csic.es Fri May 17 01:56:04 2002 From: isidro at cindoc.csic.es (isidro@cindoc.csic.es) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:00 2005 Subject: Better view of the Table Message-ID: <200205170556.g4H5u38H010446@chico.rediris.es> Sorry. The table looks terrible. I send it again. Site---Search eng.--Directory--Other GOOGLE----GOOGLE----ODP YAHOO-----GOOGLE----YAHOO ALEXA-----GOOGLE----nd---------ALEXA NETSCAPE--GOOGLE----ODP ALTAVISTA-ALTAVISTA-LOOKSMART HOTBOT----INKTOMI---ODP iWON------INKTOMI---nd--------OUVERT. MSN-------INKTOMI---LOOKSMART LOOKSMART-INKTOMI---LOOKSMART LYCOS-----FAST------ODP ALLTHEWEB-FAST------nd--------SCIRUS TEOMA-----TEOMA-----nd ASKJEEVES-(TEOMA)---ODP WISENUT---WISENUT--(LOOKSMART) ODP-------ODP------ODP OVERT.----OVERT.---OVERT. Best regards, -- ____________________________________ Isidro F. Aguillo University of New South Gales (UNSW) -- ____________________________________ Isidro F. Aguillo University of New South Gales (UNSW) Quadrangle Bldg. Lvl. 2. Off. 2099 Sydney, NSW 2052. Australia Tf. (02) 385 4413 Fx. (02) 662 4061 isidro@cindoc.csic.es ____________________________________ From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Fri May 17 10:37:39 2002 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") In-Reply-To: <200205170556.WAA12130@webjunction.org> Message-ID: >> some examples of words that users do not understand: >> interlibrary loan, periodical, new acquisitions, database, >> webliography, search engine. > >What would be an equivalent for "database" that is less >arcane than "database"? One problem here is that "database" has a fairly well defined meaning in computing, either generically to refer to any large organized collection of (usually online) data or specifically to conjure visions of relational databases accessed using SQL. Neither of these meanings corresponds to the typical use on a library home page. If I didn't know better, I'd be confused that my library's collection of "databases" didn't include the one I think of as most important -- our Banner student information system. "Databases" is also often used for the set of implementations of databases, i.e. {DB2, MySQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, Sybase, MS SQL Server, ...}, but once again I don't find "mysql" in my library's list. Heck, on our site I don't even find our catalog listed as a database. Librarians tend to use "database" in a very idiosyncratic way to refer to what I think of as a specific kind of database, a "commercially licensed online database of indexes and abstracts" or "bibliographic database", or sometimes a "database of full text articles". We went round and round on what word to use on our library web site. I prefer "indexes" (even if it is less than appropriate for collections of articles that include full text), in part because we made the strategic decision to include printed works with online databases in our list and in part because it has historical connotations. We're currently using the label "Databases & Indexes" and including "find articles" nearby to remind people that this is what we really mean. If you need a noun to replace "databases", it seems to me that a first step in this process is to have a clear idea about what kinds of databases you are including in your library's list of databases, then to use that idea to find a qualifier for the word; use "xxx databases" on your web site rather than just "databases". At most sites it's not "all library information" since the list of databases doesn't include catalog or online dictionary (both of which are certainly searchable databases). Even better if the audience is undergrads, how about being active, and rewriting the web site to talk about the action or goals. Instead of "catalog" have "find books" and instead of "databases" have "find articles". If you insist on using just "database" at least follow the Kalbus/Whang advice and include a "cheat sheet for library jargon" prominently on your site. JQ Johnson Office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator e-mail: jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon 1-541-346-1746 (v); -3485 (fax) Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri May 17 09:49:25 2002 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B03515674@mail1.morrisville.edu> I would suggest you take a look at our website as Morrisville College Library. We eliminated much of the jargon this spring semester. the URL is: http://library.morrisville.edu . Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 10:22:29 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: Our library decided to find out what terms our primary clients use. We asked a small sample of users to select the resources they use (represented on index cards), organize them into any groups they wanted, then label each group. We found out that they tended to use the term "Search" to describe online citation and article indices. However, another common term used was "Databases". But because of the predominance of this term to be used for genetic and protein resources, we used "Search" on our Web site. Something we did not expect was the use of "Reference", which was used to describe standard textbooks, which, we deduced, our clients used to reference (verb). Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> JQ Johnson 5/17/02 8:47:22 AM >>> >> some examples of words that users do not understand: >> interlibrary loan, periodical, new acquisitions, database, >> webliography, search engine. > >What would be an equivalent for "database" that is less >arcane than "database"? One problem here is that "database" has a fairly well defined meaning in computing, either generically to refer to any large organized collection of (usually online) data or specifically to conjure visions of relational databases accessed using SQL. Neither of these meanings corresponds to the typical use on a library home page. If I didn't know better, I'd be confused that my library's collection of "databases" didn't include the one I think of as most important -- our Banner student information system. "Databases" is also often used for the set of implementations of databases, i.e. {DB2, MySQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL, Sybase, MS SQL Server, ...}, but once again I don't find "mysql" in my library's list. Heck, on our site I don't even find our catalog listed as a database. Librarians tend to use "database" in a very idiosyncratic way to refer to what I think of as a specific kind of database, a "commercially licensed online database of indexes and abstracts" or "bibliographic database", or sometimes a "database of full text articles". We went round and round on what word to use on our library web site. I prefer "indexes" (even if it is less than appropriate for collections of articles that include full text), in part because we made the strategic decision to include printed works with online databases in our list and in part because it has historical connotations. We're currently using the label "Databases & Indexes" and including "find articles" nearby to remind people that this is what we really mean. If you need a noun to replace "databases", it seems to me that a first step in this process is to have a clear idea about what kinds of databases you are including in your library's list of databases, then to use that idea to find a qualifier for the word; use "xxx databases" on your web site rather than just "databases". At most sites it's not "all library information" since the list of databases doesn't include catalog or online dictionary (both of which are certainly searchable databases). Even better if the audience is undergrads, how about being active, and rewriting the web site to talk about the action or goals. Instead of "catalog" have "find books" and instead of "databases" have "find articles". If you insist on using just "database" at least follow the Kalbus/Whang advice and include a "cheat sheet for library jargon" prominently on your site. JQ Johnson Office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator e-mail: jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon 1-541-346-1746 (v); -3485 (fax) Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 10:29:58 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: In the research I mentioned in an earlier post, we measured the type of terms our sample used in their groups. About 25% used the action phrases you incorporated into your site. We were very intrigued by this and considered seriously of using this method on our home page. Space considerations precluded us from implementing this. Regarding space issues, an early usability test focusing on design elements brought out these findings of our own clients (biomedical students & faculty): 1) Many don't even think about scrolling on a "gateway"-type page; they will scroll when a list is expected (i.e. search results, etc.). 2) Most don't like options hidden via drop-down lists, mouseovers, images, etc. 3) About half like the resources listed alphabetically and half like them ordered by groups. 4) Most understood that space was a limiting factor and accepted any type of grouping, as long as there were examples that adequately reflect the meaning of the group so that they knew what to expect when they clicked on "More" to get the full list of resources in that group. We have gotten much praise and only a few negative comments (mostly about the font size) on our updated page: http://www3.utsouthwestern.edu/library/ . We will be investigating more objective measures, such as search logs and usage of resources, to determine the more true impact of the changes. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> "Drew, Bill" 5/17/02 9:04:18 AM >>> I would suggest you take a look at our website as Morrisville College Library. We eliminated much of the jargon this spring semester. the URL is: http://library.morrisville.edu . Bill Drew drewwe@morrisville.edu ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri May 17 10:40:39 2002 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B03515677@mail1.morrisville.edu> I will be taking a look at UT Southwestern Medical Library's page when I get time. I am wondering also about changing terms used in our web catalog. I will be looking at this any way since we are moving to Ex Libris ALEPH500 at the end of the month. Bill Drew From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 11:06:08 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: A pet project of mine is to build a search interface that routes keywords entered by clients through the UMLS and presents users with the best terms to use based on what they want (i.e. use the MeSH term if searching Medline; etc.). I was hoping to get started on this in the next year or so, as we will be implementing Encompass to provide a single portal to our resources. Since Encompass only searches the resources by keyword, it would be advantageous to our users to select the best term for the set of resources being searched. Our current thesaurus for our resources is rather haphazard. Based on our search logs, it does not adequately represent what our clients use. But we've had to balance precision and specificity with time to make the resources available. We will be examining the terms in the near future as we implement Encompass. Given that we tend to use terms that are broader than the topic of most of our selected sites, I would like to also create a system that will map the user's query to the most appropriate term that we use (i.e. user enters "diabetes mellitus", sites with the subject "Endocrinologic disorders" are pulled). While not very precise, I think it would be better for the user than zero hits. Some ideas for the future :) Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> "Drew, Bill" 5/17/02 9:54:47 AM >>> I will be taking a look at UT Southwestern Medical Library's page when I get time. I am wondering also about changing terms used in our web catalog. I will be looking at this any way since we are moving to Ex Libris ALEPH500 at the end of the month. Bill Drew ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From calumet at mindspring.com Fri May 17 11:14:28 2002 From: calumet at mindspring.com (Tara Calishain) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020517111220.009f3a50@pop.mindspring.com> At 08:07 AM 05/17/2002 -0700, Karen Harker wrote: >Some ideas for the future :) One thing that the paid version of Atomz does (Atomz is a site search engine, http://www.atomz.com ) is allow you to create custom results based on a certain search. You can specify, for example, if someone searches for help or FAQ or assistance or @&@*! I'm going to smack you you stupid computer, you can have the first result be a pointer to your tutorials and assistance page. Tara From EAndes at rbc.edu Fri May 17 11:44:12 2002 From: EAndes at rbc.edu (Ellen Andes) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: library jargon - usability testing Message-ID: <71DB0224C03BDD49A4345F825D5A1ECB10C107@ENTERPRISE> In preparation for a redo of our Web site, I did some preference testing and some card sorting with students (we are a two year junior college). The terms databases and tutorial were terms that were not well understood. Students preferred the "find a book" etc. approach. In terms of card sorting, I discovered that category titles such as "Library Information," "Research Tools" and so on meant something different to each student. The items that they sorted into category groupings varied so much that I am definitely going to move away from that sort of layout. Students preferred lots of links on the home page and liked groupings by type of material (ex. Find Journal Articles) rather than by categories like "Research Tools." I appreciated seeing the site by Bill Drew, since this seems to reflect many of my own findings. Ellen C. Andes Reference/Circulation/Library Web Site Richard Bland College 11301 Johnson Rd. Petersburg, Va. 23804 804-862-6227 fax: 804-862-6125 eandes@rbc.edu From avi-list at searchtools.com Fri May 17 13:00:30 2002 From: avi-list at searchtools.com (Avi Rappoport) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020517111220.009f3a50@pop.mindspring.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20020517111220.009f3a50@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: I totally agree with Tara, and am happy that the human recommendation function is being implemented in many of the quality search engines, including Inktomi, Google Search Appliance, FusionBot, MondoSearch, PicoSearch, ResultPage and SharePoint. Avi At 8:39 AM -0700 5/17/02, Tara Calishain wrote: >At 08:07 AM 05/17/2002 -0700, Karen Harker wrote: >>Some ideas for the future :) > >One thing that the paid version of Atomz does (Atomz is a site search engine, >http://www.atomz.com ) is allow you to create custom results based >on a certain >search. You can specify, for example, if someone searches for help or FAQ >or assistance or >@&@*! I'm going to smack you you stupid computer, you can have the first >result be a pointer to your tutorials and assistance page. > >Tara -- Complete Guide to Search Engines for Web Sites and Intranets From omalleye at emmanuel.edu Fri May 17 13:59:29 2002 From: omalleye at emmanuel.edu (Elena O'Malley) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: Our usability test results distilled Message-ID: It's been said before, in many different ways, but part of usability is saying what something does for the user, rather than what it is. We need to do both. A thesaurus (or www.oingo.com) is a good check for how people may interpret library terminology. Try..."reference" or "research" or "resource" or even "services" ... people don't always necessarily understand what that means in a _library_ context. For ways library resources have been described on websites, take a look at this web4lib message: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web4Lib/archive/0008/0026.html As Michael pointed out, it's helpful to provide context and relate known words to unknown words. There's lots of types of "databases" and "catalogs" (course catalogs, J.Crew, book). If you use the label "databases" (for whatever reasons), perhaps put a bit of text under it or near it on the order of "search for journal, news, and magazine articles" -- or whatever it is that the databases do. Accessibility issues aside, you can put that info in a title tag, alt tag (if it's an image), rollover, javascript mouseover, or a text tag right next to the "databases" link or elsewhere on the page. Users don't seem to mind redundant links and information. If you only have one resource and you put eighty links to it on the homepage, people might well find that irritating. However, think of it as adding multiple subject headings or increasing the number of access points in a MARC record. You want users to be able to find the book, but you're not sure how they're going to look for it. We also use synonyms and analogies to explain concepts when we interact with users in person. Try to increase their odds of finding and choosing appropriate tools by describing those tools in multiple ways. Just as we tell our users that one book may not solve all their research needs, the one "perfect" set of labels might not exist. Elena O'Malley, Technology Librarian Emmanuel College, Cardinal Cushing Library 400 The Fenway, Boston, MA 02115 omalleye@emmanuel.edu From fgomez at criba.edu.ar Fri May 17 14:21:12 2002 From: fgomez at criba.edu.ar (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_G=F3mez?=) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: linking remote results w/local holdings... and some PHP Message-ID: <005601c1fdcf$a036fb60$88bad2aa@uns.edu.ar> Hello. I am just experimenting with the following project: develop an interface which allows patrons or staff to perform a search in a (web based) abstracting database, and, before displaying the results, highlight in some way those results which correspond to journals available in our library. It involves a bit of HTML parsing, and a good dosis of luck, as it is not guaranteed that matches will be always correctly found. But in any case, it seems to be a worthwhile addition to a library OPAC (even if you have to alert about its fallibility) because in many situations it could save patrons a double search. Now, the tools. I am inclined to do this with PHP; it has several functions to fetch a remote page and treat it essentially as an array or a string. My problem right now is that things like fopen("remote file") are working only with some sites, and not with many others (including the one I intend to work with!). So a bit of PHP expertise regarding these issues would be appreciatted. I am developing under Windows ME + Apache 2.0.36. Also, I would like to know if anyone has worked in a similar project, and what experiences you would like to share. Maybe there are also some copyright issues around here? Thanks in advance. Best regards, Fernando J. G?mez Biblioteca Dr. Antonio Monteiro Instituto de Matem?tica de Bah?a Blanca Universidad Nacional del Sur / CONICET Bah?a Blanca Argentina From walderan at oplin.lib.oh.us Fri May 17 14:48:45 2002 From: walderan at oplin.lib.oh.us (Toni Walder) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: "My Whatever" Message-ID: <3CE5508D.8A8CA958@oplin.lib.oh.us> I know some of you offer a "My Library" portal to your site. Is this a custom application, or is there commercial software I could use. Thanks, Toni -- Toni Walder walderan@oplin.lib.oh.us Wright Memorial Public Library 937-294-8572 (phone) 1776 Far Hills 937-294-8578 (fax) Dayton OH 45419 "Groan and forget it." Jessamyn West From RKALABUS at wwcc.cc.wy.us Fri May 17 15:08:32 2002 From: RKALABUS at wwcc.cc.wy.us (Robert Kalabus) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: <6CA106E86E1BD3119C6D00C00D00977D0E34BBE5@sage.wwcc.cc.wy.us> This is a comment on what Karen Harker wrote: "Regarding space issues, an early usability test focusing on design = elements brought out these findings of our own clients (biomedical = students & faculty): 1) Many don't even think about scrolling on a "gateway"-type page; they = will scroll when a list is expected (i.e. search results, etc.)." Our usability test compared our library site with two others that had gateway-type main pages. The test participants (six community college students) preferred our page and scrolling over the other two pages and multiple clicking. (Of course, we offer fewer research tools than many libraries.) Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING EVERYTIME. Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to everything at once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and fast for experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the inexperienced ones. Robert Kalabus Hay Library Western Wyoming Community College From carver.50 at osu.edu Fri May 17 16:10:30 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usability) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517155010.016a4e38@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> To move this thread a bit, has anyone thought about the concept of information literacy and applied that to library web site design? I am asking about the web site as an information literacy tool, not teaching information literacy on the web, but the site teaching purposely through how it was designed. Most patrons are unwilling or unable to sit through any type of instruction, unless they are forced to, and making a site usable helps to make it easier for that majority, but maybe building a site that teaches might be something to consider. So can we design a site that leads the users, and provides definitions or help as it goes? Can the instruction and the site content be transparently combined? I think so. I've seen people allude to it already already in this thread. You can use mouse overs, tool tips, short descriptions, and more, to provide definitions, examples and descriptions of jargon, and at the same time still use that jargon. Somehow we need to make the site smarter to anticipate the questions people will have as they move through it. It's something I'm just beginning to think about here, and I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks. ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From shirley at ibt.unam.mx Fri May 17 14:43:17 2002 From: shirley at ibt.unam.mx (Shirley Ainsworth) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] linking remote results w/local holdings... and some PHP In-Reply-To: <005601c1fdcf$a036fb60$88bad2aa@uns.edu.ar> Message-ID: Fernando We have developed just such an interface here at the National University in Mexico, with a simple search form to do cross database seaching (Silver Platter databases, Current Contents, Pubmed, Ovid etc) and then link the results to the full text journals we have access to here, more than 6,000. In most cases we can go straight to the article from the search results. The system is called Hermes, the programs are written in perl, the journal databases is in MySQL and it all runs on linux. If you like to know more, you can get in touch directly with Ana Maria Escalante aescalan@ifisiol.unam.mx. For obvious reasons the system is limited to our University community, but the url is http://leviatan.ifisiol.unam.mx/ref/hermes.html Good luck Shirley Shirley Ainsworth Bibliotecaria/Librarian Instituto de Biotecnologia-UNAM email shirley@ibt.unam.mx fax (52) 777 3172388 tel (52) 55 5622-7603 http://www.ibt.unam.mx/biblioteca ariel ip 132.248.32.82 On Fri, 17 May 2002, Fernando G?mez wrote: > Hello. > > I am just experimenting with the following project: develop an interface > which allows patrons or staff to perform a search in a (web based) > abstracting database, and, before displaying the results, highlight in some > way those results which correspond to journals available in our library. It > involves a bit of HTML parsing, and a good dosis of luck, as it is not > guaranteed that matches will be always correctly found. But in any case, it > seems to be a worthwhile addition to a library OPAC (even if you have to > alert about its fallibility) because in many situations it could save > patrons a double search. > > Now, the tools. I am inclined to do this with PHP; it has several functions > to fetch a remote page and treat it essentially as an array or a string. My > problem right now is that things like fopen("remote file") are working only > with some sites, and not with many others (including the one I intend to > work with!). So a bit of PHP expertise regarding these issues would be > appreciatted. I am developing under Windows ME + Apache 2.0.36. > > Also, I would like to know if anyone has worked in a similar project, and > what experiences you would like to share. Maybe there are also some > copyright issues around here? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Fernando J. G?mez > > Biblioteca Dr. Antonio Monteiro > Instituto de Matem?tica de Bah?a Blanca > Universidad Nacional del Sur / CONICET > Bah?a Blanca > Argentina > > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri May 17 16:11:36 2002 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usabil ity) Message-ID: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B0351568D@mail1.morrisville.edu> I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a different issue entirely. Bill Drew From mark.ellis at yourlibrary.ca Fri May 17 16:19:39 2002 From: mark.ellis at yourlibrary.ca (Mark Ellis) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] "My Whatever" Message-ID: <179ED821C9E81A45A575004FF401C0088F1EA8@ara.rpl.richmond.bc.ca> Toni, There's open source available for this at: http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/eresources/mylibrary/ Mark Ellis Manager, Reference and Information Services Richmond Public Library Richmond, B.C. (604) 231-6410 www.yourlibrary.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: Toni Walder [mailto:walderan@oplin.lib.oh.us] > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:49 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] "My Whatever" > > > I know some of you offer a "My Library" portal to your site. Is this a > custom application, or is there commercial software I could use. > > Thanks, > > Toni > > -- > Toni Walder > walderan@oplin.lib.oh.us > Wright Memorial Public Library 937-294-8572 (phone) > 1776 Far Hills 937-294-8578 > (fax) > Dayton OH 45419 > > > "Groan and forget it." Jessamyn West > > > From carver.50 at osu.edu Fri May 17 16:31:47 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usablity) In-Reply-To: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B0351568D@mail1.morrisville.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517162353.016b74b8@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Well, I guess I'm NOT really advocating for the use (or especially the over use) of jargon, but it could easily be argued we are doing our users a favor (or favour depending on where you are) by teaching them commonly used terms. True the users could care less about such things, but we are in the business of imparting knowledge, and if we can make someone wiser through our site and they didn't even notice (That is there was little or no effort on their part to learn something that could potentially be useful to them in the future), then we've done a good job. The other side is the site should be 100% jargon free, and stick with the lowest common denominator. I'm not sure either approach is completely correct, perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle. At 04:11 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. > >Bill Drew ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri May 17 16:45:02 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usabil In-Reply-To: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B0351568D@mail1.morrisville .edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517163625.02427fd8@ohiolink.edu> At 04:25 PM 5/17/2002, Drew, Bill wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. To the best of my knowledge, no field has developed jargon just for the sake of obfuscation. Jargon is a technical vocabulary that communicates specific meanings within a specific field. For any example of library jargon you can point to, some librarian will explain why that term is precise and correct, and why more general terminology fails to communicate some aspect of the original term. Perhaps the question to ask is, at what points in the delivery of library services is it necessary for the user to understand our specific terminology? And, if they haven't ever been exposed to that terminology before, how much effort will it be to explain it to them at that point? Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 16:49:21 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: This is another example of designing your site for your own users. As I mentioned below, most of our users did not even think about scrolling. If it wasn't on the top page-view, it wasn't there. Sure, it would be better for them if they did scroll, but changing user behavior can be quite difficult. So we designed our page for our users. If they're happy, we're happy ;) Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Robert Kalabus 05/17/02 14:20 PM >>> This is a comment on what Karen Harker wrote: "Regarding space issues, an early usability test focusing on design = elements brought out these findings of our own clients (biomedical = students & faculty): 1) Many don't even think about scrolling on a "gateway"-type page; they = will scroll when a list is expected (i.e. search results, etc.)." Our usability test compared our library site with two others that had gateway-type main pages. The test participants (six community college students) preferred our page and scrolling over the other two pages and multiple clicking. (Of course, we offer fewer research tools than many libraries.) Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING EVERYTIME. Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to everything at once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and fast for experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the inexperienced ones. Robert Kalabus Hay Library Western Wyoming Community College From plum at ulink.net Fri May 17 16:54:40 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Karen, Your page looks very functional and clear. Did you encounter resistance from within to going without graphics? --Nancy ...our updated page: http://www3.utsouthwestern.edu/library/= > . We will be investigating more objective measures, such as search logs = > and usage of resources, to determine the more true impact of the changes. > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-1698 > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ > >>>> "Drew, Bill" 5/17/02 9:04:18 AM >>> > I would suggest you take a look at our website as Morrisville College > Library. We eliminated much of the jargon this spring semester. the URL > is: http://library.morrisville.edu . > > Bill Drew > drewwe@morrisville.edu > > > > ********************************************************************* > Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, > this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there > to a plain text message. > ********************************************************************* > From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Fri May 17 16:50:11 2002 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Message-ID: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B03515690@mail1.morrisville.edu> As always, very well put. I agree 100% and also appreciate the way you frame the questions. I do think sneaking jargon in where it can be easily defined without getting in the way of the patron/user/student/faculty member is fine. Bill Drew > > > Perhaps the question to ask is, at what points in the > delivery of library > services is it necessary for the user to understand our specific > terminology? And, if they haven't ever been exposed to that > terminology > before, how much effort will it be to explain it to them at > that point? > > > > Thomas Dowling > OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network > tdowling@ohiolink.edu > > From leo at leoklein.com Fri May 17 16:59:40 2002 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usabil In-Reply-To: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B0351568D@mail1.morrisville .edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020517162821.022bb530@mail145.pair.com> At 01:23 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, Bill Drew wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. I agree with the devil here. Many librarians who I've talked to would like to make the site "an instructional opportunity". They're not at all comfortable putting things in terms the students use themselves or would understand. In fact, the very idea that we should actually cater to what the students _want_ is a foreign notion --- since everyone knows students don't have a clue. As far as I know, the students _want_ to hang out on the beach -- an option of course which the library currently doesn't supply. What the students want from us -- and generally what they've been sent by their instructors to get -- is three articles and a book or two in order to complete an assignment. There's no "dumbing down" to my mind in fulfilling this need in terms the students can understand. But still the counter-argument rages. After a while, my mind tends to wander and I start seeing visions of Steve Krug's book dancing around the light fixtures. LEO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator home :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://leoklein.com office :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://newman.baruch.cuny.edu radio station ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://patachon.com/radio ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 17:00:15 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usablity) Message-ID: Where else are they using these terms? Will they use them in their chosen field? Will they ever use these terms outside of a library? If not, why teach them? If they use different terms in their fields, why must they translate into library terms? We are not training users to become librarians...we are teaching them how to find the information they need. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Blake Carver 05/17/02 15:37 PM >>> Well, I guess I'm NOT really advocating for the use (or especially the over use) of jargon, but it could easily be argued we are doing our users a favor (or favour depending on where you are) by teaching them commonly used terms. True the users could care less about such things, but we are in the business of imparting knowledge, and if we can make someone wiser through our site and they didn't even notice (That is there was little or no effort on their part to learn something that could potentially be useful to them in the future), then we've done a good job. The other side is the site should be 100% jargon free, and stick with the lowest common denominator. I'm not sure either approach is completely correct, perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle. At 04:11 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. > >Bill Drew ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Fri May 17 17:03:37 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: No, in fact quite the opposite because our site was burdened with a huge graphic that took up bandwidth and precious real estate for several years. Furthermore, our design-oriented staff were involved in the usability study from the beginning, so they knew first-hand how the users responded. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Nancy Sosna Bohm 05/17/02 15:55 PM >>> Karen, Your page looks very functional and clear. Did you encounter resistance from within to going without graphics? --Nancy ...our updated page: http://www3.utsouthwestern.edu/library/= > . We will be investigating more objective measures, such as search logs = > and usage of resources, to determine the more true impact of the changes. > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-1698 > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ > >>>> "Drew, Bill" 5/17/02 9:04:18 AM >>> > I would suggest you take a look at our website as Morrisville College > Library. We eliminated much of the jargon this spring semester. the URL > is: http://library.morrisville.edu . > > Bill Drew > drewwe@morrisville.edu > > > > ********************************************************************* > Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, > this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there > to a plain text message. > ********************************************************************* > From levinej at SLS.LIB.IL.US Fri May 17 17:29:47 2002 From: levinej at SLS.LIB.IL.US (Jenny Levine) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usability) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517155010.016a4e38@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <02d801c1fdea$1e01e5e0$6302a8c0@sls.lib.il.us> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake Carver" > So can we design a site that leads the users, and provides definitions or > help as it goes? Can the instruction and the site content be transparently > combined? I think so. At some point on this list (probably a couple of years ago), someone posted a link to a library's web site that employed drop down menus as the main navigation element on the home page. It started with one drop down, and when you made your selection, a second drop down appeared. Make a second selection and a third drop down appeared to help narrow down your choices even further. I think a similar structure might have some value in this context because it could include both jargon and more user-friendly terms (as long as the lists don't get too big). Each successive drop down could gently direct the user to the appropriate term while still displaying and appearing to use the user-friendly synonym. I don't like this as the only form of navigation, but it could be useful for helping identify databases and research tools while throwing in some information literacy on the side. Of course, now I can't find the URL for that site. I think it was an academic library's site - does this ring a bell with anyone else? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny Levine 125 Tower Drive Internet Development Specialist Burr Ridge, IL 60527 Suburban Library System +1 (630) 734 5141 http://www.sls.lib.il.us/ levinej@sls.lib.il.us ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dan at riverofdata.com Fri May 17 17:41:42 2002 From: dan at riverofdata.com (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Journal Lists In-Reply-To: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164C5@mail.emerson.edu> References: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164C5@mail.emerson.edu> Message-ID: <13110636384.20020517154142@riverofdata.com> Boise State uses TDNet. We call it TDNet, since that is what it is. We considered a variety of other goofy names and quickly decided not to call it anything else. Our catalog is called "Catalyst" (was so named back in 1990 when it started) and that is a never ending source of confusion. On our homepage at http://library.boisestate.edu you'll see that the links to the two entities are "Books and Media Catalog (Catalyst)" and "Journals Catalog". The respective URLs are http://catalyst.boisestate.edu and http://tdnet.boisestate.edu Our TDNet includes ALL journals in all formats, both individually subscribed to and in licensed aggregator databases. The individual titles are in the main catalog, but not the aggregator titles. Thus, TDNet is a complete catalog of all journals. Good luck with your decision. Whatever you do, I can assure you that there will be a number who won't like it and will, of course, have a handful of "better options". cheers dan Thursday, May 16, 2002, 1:28:55 PM, you wrote: SG> How many of you are using solutions such as TDnet, Serials Solutions, JWC, SG> etc. to manage your electronic serials subscriptions, and what are you SG> calling this list/database on your public web site? SG> Ours is called "Journal Locator" but this is confusing to users, and I'm SG> wanting to get an idea of other names, e.g. "List of Electronic Journals," SG> "Journals List." SG> If you could email me privately, I will post a summary if people are SG> interested. SG> Sarah SG> ______________________________ SG> Sarah Graham SG> Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian SG> Emerson College Library SG> email: sarah_graham@emerson.edu SG> phone: (617) 824-8332 SG> fax: (617) 824-7811 SG> ______________________________ -- Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Fri May 17 17:54:29 2002 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >To the best of my knowledge, no field has developed jargon just for the >sake of obfuscation. Thomas Dowling makes a good point about the positive benefits of a precise technical vocabulary, but it's one that is debated in some parts of academia. Some modern philosophers and historians of science would argue that jargon's more important role is to maintain an existing power structure. You can't be one of the good old boys if you don't talk like one. Even if you don't buy into that radical a view of science, at least you need to accept the idea that our understanding of the domain changes with time, and hence that jargon needs to evolve. One driver for that evolution is the need to appeal to new (lay) audiences. JQ Johnson Office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator mailto:jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon phone: 1-541-346-1746; -3485 fax Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj/ From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Fri May 17 18:13:19 2002 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usability) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517155010.016a4e38@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <4B0D269A-69E3-11D6-A6E9-000A27E16A20@ucop.edu> It's funny this should come up just now, since I just spoke on this topic this week at the Workshop on Instruction in Library Use at Fredericton, New Brunswick. That is, that we should get better about integrating information literacy "instruction" (for lack of a better term) throughout all of our contacts with students, in ways that use finesse -- what I called "stealth information literacy". This would certainly include changes to a library's web site. My slides are at http://www.escholarship.cdlib.org/rtennant/presentations/2002wilu/unb2.htm . You will have to get past the initial metaphor linked to whitewater rafting to get to the meat, but hey, you had to be there! Roy On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:17 PM, Blake Carver wrote: > To move this thread a bit, has anyone thought about the concept of > information literacy and applied that to library web site design? > I am asking about the web site as an information literacy tool, not > teaching information literacy on the web, but the site teaching > purposely > through how it was designed. > > Most patrons are unwilling or unable to sit through any type of > instruction, unless they are forced to, and making a site usable helps > to > make it easier for that majority, but maybe building a site that teaches > might be something to consider. > > So can we design a site that leads the users, and provides definitions > or > help as it goes? Can the instruction and the site content be > transparently > combined? I think so. > > I've seen people allude to it already already in this thread. You can > use > mouse overs, tool tips, short descriptions, and more, to provide > definitions, examples and descriptions of jargon, and at the same time > still use that jargon. Somehow we need to make the site smarter to > anticipate the questions people will have as they move through it. > > It's something I'm just beginning to think about here, and I'd love to > hear > what anyone else thinks. > > > > ------------------------------------------ > Blake Carver > Web Librarian > The Ohio State University Libraries > See Also: > www.LISNews.com > > > From TSmith2 at lcc.edu Fri May 17 18:25:32 2002 From: TSmith2 at lcc.edu (TSmith2@lcc.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: Promoting a 'New' Library Website? Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Does anyone have any suggestions for promoting/marketing a 'new' (revised after extensive usability testing) library website? There are two purposes we have in mind for promotion - advanced warning of the upcoming change & encouraging familiarization with the change. I will compile any ideas sent to me & redistibute them to the list in the autumn of 2002. Cheers - Trixi .............................................. Trixi B Smith, Web Librarian Room 201Q, LCC Library Technology & Learning Center (TLC) Lansing Community College Lansing, MI 48901-7210 Mail Code: 1510 Office Phone: 517.483.1650 Email Address: tsmith2@lcc.edu From dan at riverofdata.com Fri May 17 18:38:10 2002 From: dan at riverofdata.com (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Promoting a 'New' Library Website? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3714024255.20020517163810@riverofdata.com> If the website is new, why should it need familiarization for the users? Wasn't the idea to make it so usable that "any idiot" can deal with it? Certainly announce it when it is up in the new version. You may pick up a few users out of curiosity, and a few who gave up on it in the old format. But I'm not a believer in announcing what is going to happen in the future. There are too many risks. There is always the possibility of "vaporware" or a "delay in release" of the new version. Better to announce a new product when it is there. Note that in the above I'm talking about a library service, not releasing a new product for CocaCola. dan Friday, May 17, 2002, 4:26:26 PM, you wrote: Tle> Hi Everyone, Tle> Does anyone have any suggestions for promoting/marketing a 'new' (revised Tle> after extensive usability testing) library website? Tle> There are two purposes we have in mind for promotion - advanced warning of Tle> the upcoming change & encouraging familiarization with the change. Tle> I will compile any ideas sent to me & redistibute them to the list in the Tle> autumn of 2002. Tle> Cheers - Trixi Tle> ............................................. Tle> Trixi B Smith, Web Librarian Tle> Room 201Q, LCC Library Tle> Technology & Learning Center (TLC) Tle> Lansing Community College Tle> Lansing, MI 48901-7210 Tle> Mail Code: 1510 Tle> Office Phone: 517.483.1650 Tle> Email Address: tsmith2@lcc.edu -- Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! From thomas at anaheim.lib.ca.us Fri May 17 19:02:04 2002 From: thomas at anaheim.lib.ca.us (Tom Edelblute) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020517162821.022bb530@mail145.pair.com> Message-ID: <3CE58BEC.DEA937C6@anaheim.lib.ca.us> This is an odd place for me to jump into this thread, but here I go. Most of this thread has taken on the academic library discussion. I am with a public library with my own perspective. Only two-thirds of the American population graduate from high school. Half of those graduating high-schoolers will go on to college. Only of that population will graduate. Therefore, from my perspective, when a person comes through the door looking for something the last thing we want to do is burden them with technical jargon. Instead, we work toward the lowest common denominator. The less jargon the better. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tom Edelblute Public Access Systems Coordinator Anaheim Public Library phone: (714) 765-1759 500 West Broadway fax: (714) 765-1730 Anaheim CA 92805 e-mail: thomas@anaheim.lib.ca.us Leo Robert Klein wrote: > > At 01:23 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, Bill Drew wrote: > >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon > >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less > >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a > >different issue entirely. > > I agree with the devil here. Many librarians who I've talked to would like > to make the site "an instructional opportunity". They're not at all > comfortable putting things in terms the students use themselves or would > understand. In fact, the very idea that we should actually cater to what > the students _want_ is a foreign notion --- since everyone knows students > don't have a clue. As far as I know, the students _want_ to hang out on > the beach -- an option of course which the library currently doesn't > supply. What the students want from us -- and generally what they've been > sent by their instructors to get -- is three articles and a book or two in > order to complete an assignment. There's no "dumbing down" to my mind in > fulfilling this need in terms the students can understand. > > But still the counter-argument rages. After a while, my mind tends to > wander and I start seeing visions of Steve Krug's book dancing around the > light fixtures. > > LEO > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator > home :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://leoklein.com > office :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://newman.baruch.cuny.edu > radio station ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://patachon.com/radio > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From plum at ulink.net Fri May 17 21:14:59 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was References: <3CE58BEC.DEA937C6@anaheim.lib.ca.us> Message-ID: <001301c1fe09$6f1cbe40$d70cced1@shapeshi> > Most of this thread has taken on the academic library discussion. I am > with a public library ... > ... last thing we want to do is burden them with > technical jargon. Instead, we work toward the lowest common > denominator. The less jargon the better. I've worked on both High School Library and 4-year College Library sites, and would still agree that "the lowest common denominator" is better. There are ESL students, the pre-computer era population, and others to consider. With that in mind, as well as considering the above discussed concept of Information Literacy delivered via the Library Web site, perhaps terms like "newspaper and magazine articles" can be followed by ubiquitous jargon terms like "databases" in parentheses, thereby defining the jargon term. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Edelblute" To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:05 PM Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was > This is an odd place for me to jump into this thread, but here I go. > > Most of this thread has taken on the academic library discussion. I am > with a public library with my own perspective. Only two-thirds of the > American population graduate from high school. Half of those graduating > high-schoolers will go on to college. Only of that population will > graduate. > > Therefore, from my perspective, when a person comes through the door > looking for something the last thing we want to do is burden them with > technical jargon. Instead, we work toward the lowest common > denominator. The less jargon the better. > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Tom Edelblute > Public Access Systems Coordinator > Anaheim Public Library phone: (714) 765-1759 > 500 West Broadway fax: (714) 765-1730 > Anaheim CA 92805 e-mail: thomas@anaheim.lib.ca.us > > Leo Robert Klein wrote: > > > > At 01:23 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, Bill Drew wrote: > > >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon > > >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less > > >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a > > >different issue entirely. > > > > I agree with the devil here. Many librarians who I've talked to would like > > to make the site "an instructional opportunity". They're not at all > > comfortable putting things in terms the students use themselves or would > > understand. In fact, the very idea that we should actually cater to what > > the students _want_ is a foreign notion --- since everyone knows students > > don't have a clue. As far as I know, the students _want_ to hang out on > > the beach -- an option of course which the library currently doesn't > > supply. What the students want from us -- and generally what they've been > > sent by their instructors to get -- is three articles and a book or two in > > order to complete an assignment. There's no "dumbing down" to my mind in > > fulfilling this need in terms the students can understand. > > > > But still the counter-argument rages. After a while, my mind tends to > > wander and I start seeing visions of Steve Krug's book dancing around the > > light fixtures. > > > > LEO > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator > > home :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://leoklein.com > > office :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://newman.baruch.cuny.edu > > radio station ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://patachon.com/radio > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From gprice at gwu.edu Fri May 17 19:17:22 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:01 2005 Subject: Hooray, Another Web Engine Begins Providing Access To PDF Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020517190457.039f4ec0@imap.gwu.edu> Hello from D.C. AllTheWeb has begun to provide access to .pdf material. Since 2/2001 Google has been the only engine providing access to this material. Right now .pdf results are included in all results sets where appropriate. No specific syntax that limits to document format is currently available. However, using the advanced interface and limiting to "must include" term, .pdf, in the url is a way to do some limiting. For example: Try a search for the terms librarian AND database that was constructed using the advanced search (http://www.alltheweb.com/advanced) page and filtering the term .pdf so it's a "must include" in the url. You can also limit by using the syntax, url.all:pdf , in the any search box. For example: A search for the phrase "public television" ( http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=utf-8&l=any&q=url.all%3Apdf+%E2%80%9Cpublic+television%E2%80%9D+) limited to documents with .pdf in the url. In most cases, documents are labeled as .pdf next to the title line on the results page. More details about this and other ATW changes in the next week or so. cheers, gary Looking for More News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.freepint.com Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gary@freepint.com From rich at richardwiggins.com Sat May 25 10:59:31 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:03 2005 Subject: The word "LISTSERV" trademarked Message-ID: <20020525075933.22517.h015.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Wow, Secretariat is dead, how long before we slay this horse? :-) Yes, LISTSERV is a trademark. It's registered, it's long standing, and it's vigorously defended by L-Soft and by creator Eric Thomas. Eric is obsessed with functionality and efficient use of networks; he's also a bit cantankerous and a fascinating character. Most importantly, he is one of the unsung pioneer geniuses of Internet history. LISTSERV fostered online communities of interest using IBM mainframes and BITNET long before the Internet revolution. Unlike some other Internet Johnnie-come-latelies, Eric richly deserves his millions. So I agree with Dan. I don't see any reason to consciously abuse Eric's trademark, any more than you would use SIRSI as a generic term for OPAC software. And by the way, it's spelled with all upper case (though that practice is particularly unenforceable). /rich On Fri, 24 May 2002, Dan Lester wrote > > Friday, May 24, 2002, 3:48:59 PM, you wrote: > > BD> Anyone may do the paperwork to register a trademark. Unless they take the steps to > BD> defend that trademark it may be lost to them. I guess it depends on how one would define > BD> vigorously and how one would define may. Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From rjtiess at warwick.net Sat May 25 14:35:44 2002 From: rjtiess at warwick.net (Robert Tiess) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <3CEFD980.61B194@warwick.net> [Sending again this message originally sent on Friday, May 24, as it did not come through the list. R.T.] Dan Lester wrote: > Because most sensible persons.... > 1) Never think of libraries. > 2) Haven't been in a library in years > 3) Think that libraries and librarians are old and stuffy and wouldn't > know good and useful stuff. > 4) Want to get it from the net and want it RIGHT NOW. > 5) Too many others to mention I hope not most, but your points illustrate exactly what the library community has to do a better job of: getting the good word out. The disconnect between people and libraries, as presented above, seems fixable through improved communications between a library and its community. As far as the "right now" notion: good in-depth research anywhere (on or off the web) takes time. Ready reference type questions can be quickly answered, but my concerns tend to focus on deep/scholarly research, where one or two random web sites just doesn't cut it. Dan Lester wrote: > As far as feeling lucky, in most libraries you take that gamble on who > you run into at the desk. Some are good, some are bad, some in the > middle, and of course that is compounding by varying abilities in > varying subject areas. This is true to some extent, but I'm of the opinion the best bet is still with professional librarians. Dan Lester wrote: > Most people NEVER HAD any faith in libraries. They were either a > place where you had to go in school, and you probably hated, or > they're a nice place to go get a mystery novel to read in bed. Again, I hope not most. Most public libraries have budgets which must be voted upon, and, while there are always difficulties in passing budgets (particularly when a small library proposes a sizable tax increase to support the creation of a larger facility), most budgets do get passed. Presumably the people voting yes have some faith in their library. Of course, one can try to say the number of voters relative to a library's service population is an indicator that the majority of available votes don't bother to vote because they don't care, but that's not necessarily true. I hope not, and I hope most staff members in libraries have not lost faith in their communities. The Internet has been somewhat disenchanting for librarians and researchers, for all its resources: too much, too little, authority issues, takes to long to find things, browser problems, and so on. Libraries need to continue striking a balance between web and in-house content while demonstrating to patrons why libraries are the best starting place, even if the patron is inevitably referred to an online resource or a third party expert or "Ask a" service. Dan Lester wrote: > Whoa....I'm not thinking of people who are into some "work at home and > get rich quick" scheme. I'm thinking of accomplished researchers in > almost any field, but who don't happen to be librarians. I can think > of all sorts of friends and neighbors, on and off campus, who have > great research skills, at least in their subject areas. Okay then, no argument there. "Accomplished researchers" is more like it. Many "Ask a" services rely on such accomplished people who are not librarians yet are confirmable experts in their field. Dan Lester wrote: > And that's a problem. I work just four hours a week at reference. > I've not done ref regularly (i.e. 20 hours a week or so) for many > years. But I also see colleagues take patrons off on some long and > tough print search for something I can pop up on the net for them > before they even get off to that section of the reference stacks. The > old "if the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, it is the right > tool for everything" cuts both ways. Right, and I'm sure you've encountered questions that have no answers on the web. You can only find so much on the web. Quick is good only if it leads to good information. Patience is a factor. For the best possible information in any form people can learn to wait a few minutes. Web resources are also limited also by copyrights and licensing: how many print reference volumes, for example, do wonders for us, yet how few of them are on the web via electronic resources we can license or access freely. No researcher should be limited to one tool; use them all. The library is the toolshed. Dan Lester wrote: > Once again, the researcher for hire may be ten times better than any > librarian, at least in his/her field, and that is presumably the field > that they'd be picking googlequestions in. And those freelancers > certainly have access to libraries. We see bunches of them in our > library, that's for sure. "May be" is the problem. Again, if one is "feeling lucky," go for it, pay up, and hope the information gained is indeed good. It's always a gamble, but I still say the best bet is the library. Dan Lester wrote: > I've never argued against starting with a librarian. I've been trying > to indicate that we professional librarians aren't the be-all and > end-all of research, and we certainly don't have, or don't even have > access to, all the answers. I've also been trying to indicate that the > majority of questions are simple and hardly require all the wonderful > things or resources you describe. It depends. Questions received at institutions I work for rarely fit the "simple" category. And then there are academic libraries. There's always a fair share of ready reference type questions, but it's been my experience that most people wind up at the library because of class assignments or questions they could not answer on their own -- questions that rarely could be described as simple. Another trend I noticed over the past few years is that many people wind up at the library because they got frustrated searching for hours online. This is not to say they are "bad searchers," but it does show that, no matter what, there will always be a portion of the community that needs libraries no matter what. Expanding on that portion remains a challenge for libraries, which is why libraries need to do more on and off the web to renew the faith of their respective communities. I think that can be done, and quickly, because the only the libraries really need to do is advertise their services more prominently and then be sure to back up their claims with quality service (which I don't anticipate being much of a problem for most libraries). Public relations, consistently good service: give patrons a reason to visit and then return to the library (and the library's website, if it has one). Robert Tiess From kgs at bluehighways.com Sat May 25 16:28:47 2002 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <3CEFD980.61B194@warwick.net> Message-ID: <017401c2042a$c631b880$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> :Again, I hope not most. Most public libraries have budgets which must be :voted upon, and, while there are always difficulties in passing budgets :(particularly when a small library proposes a sizable tax increase to :support the creation of a larger facility), most budgets do get passed. :Presumably the people voting yes have some faith in their library. Absolutely. But the availability and quality of Internet services and the support for public library services do not necessarily have a causal relationship. We shouldn't assume they're voting for (or care about) reference services, online or otherwise. There's nothing tragic about that, either. ---------------------------------------------- Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw lii.org: Information You Can Trust! ---------------------------------------------- From coffmanfyi at earthlink.net Sun May 26 01:41:10 2002 From: coffmanfyi at earthlink.net (Stephen Coffman) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:03 2005 Subject: ALA --- Marketing Virtual Reference Services Program -- Sat 3:00-5:30 (fwd) (fwd) Message-ID: "If you build it, they will come" may have worked for Kevin Costner and the Field of Dreams, but we've got pretty good evidence now that it dosen't apply to virtual reference services. The most successful virtual reference services out there right now, usually got that way by paying careful attention to marketing and promotion, while those that have followed the Costner approach, have generally been underwhelmed with the results. So, if you are thinking of starting a virtual reference service and you would prefer not to be 'underwhelmed' by your results, or if you're currently operating a service and you're looking for ways to improve your traffic, we'd like to invite you to come and join us and your colleagues at "Marketing Virtual Reference Services -- or PR for VR" at the American Library Association's Annual Conference Saturday, June 15th 3:00-5:30, Georgia World Congress Center, Room A302. Sponsored by LSSI on behalf of libraries and virtual reference librarians everywhere who are working hard to make a go of it on the Web. Of course, there is no one ‘right way’ to market virtual reference or any other service, so we have designed the program to introduce you to a wide variety of tools and tactics you can use to introduce your service to your campus or your community, and to make sure they remember it whenever they need information. Here are just a few of the presenters and the topics they will be covering: · Karen Hyman, Director of the South Jersey Regional Library Cooperative on marketing techniques used to launch and publicize the QandANJ statewide virtual reference service, one of the busiest virtual reference services in the world (http://www.qandanj.org/) · Boyd Karren of Soter Associates (advertising and marketing firm used by Horizon / Dynix and other library vendors) on lessons from the private sector, how libraries can take advantage of marketing and media strategies used in the business world without breaking the budget (http://www.soter.net) · Lisa Horowitz and friends from MIT on effective marketing in academic environments --- current practice and future plans (http://libraries.mit.edu/) · Gaylord Information Systems on how you can take advantage of the new tight integration between LSSI Virtual Reference services and the Polaris system to put a librarian in front of your patrons whenever they’re searching the catalog (http://www.gis.gaylord.com/) · Tracy Strobel of the highly successful KnowItNow project on the various strategies they are using to market their service in Cleveland, Ohio (http://www.knowitnow24x7.net/) · Linda Wallace and Peggy Barber of Library Communications Strategies (and formerly of ALA Public Relations) on marketing lessons from the QandA Café project in Northern California (http://www.librarycomm.com) · Tutor.com on how to take advantage of the new integration between LSSI Virtual Reference and the Tutor.com services to help reach school-age children (www.tutor.com) · And much more. As you can see, we have a very full program planned, and we hope you will come away with lots of information that will be useful to you and some great ideas for promoting your new service. Everyone is welcome, regardless of which virtual reference software you are using or thinking of using. And we look forward to seeing you all there. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/C1XolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: livereference-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From rjtiess at warwick.net Sun May 26 11:36:56 2002 From: rjtiess at warwick.net (Robert Tiess) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions References: <017401c2042a$c631b880$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> Message-ID: <3CF10118.759788F3@warwick.net> "Karen G. Schneider" wrote: > Absolutely. But the availability and quality of Internet services and > the support for public library services do not necessarily have a causal > relationship. We shouldn't assume they're voting for (or care about) > reference services, online or otherwise. There's nothing tragic about > that, either. You're right, Karen. We cannot assume anything. For relatively small libraries it might be easier to tell who supports what, since many voters in those libraries tend to be frequent patrons, but, without actively soliciting feedback, larger libraries may find it very difficult to determine what currently attracts patrons and what new resources/services are desired. Here's where I think many libraries can improve the dialogue with their service populations and further tailor online/in-house collections and services to what communities want and need. Whatever patrons support, even if it's just the idea of having a library, their support is critical. Sustaining and expanding support wherever possible -- really, just through consistently good service -- is also essential. Excellent reference services and resources, on and beyond the web, can only help to strengthen a library's cause and win more supporters down the road. Robert Tiess From rich at richardwiggins.com Mon May 27 01:44:59 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:04 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <20020526224504.24648.h023.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> I'm afraid my use of the term "compiled results" may have misled you. The whole premise of Google Answers is: I offer to pay a sum of money for someone to go out and research my question anew. By "compiled results" I meant a set of answers (citations and annotations) compiled by the researcher in response to the question just posed. I do not mean calling up a previously compiled set of answers. Google Answers is not AskJeeves; it is not a set of pathfinders or FAQs; it is not a knowledge base. (However, I believe they are indefinitely archiving and making accessible to others previous questions and answers.) Thus if I asked a question concerning the hearbreak of psoriasis or efficacy of laser eye surgery, I'd expect the researcher to compile a new list of source links at that time. Yes, if the researcher limits him/herself to freely-available Web resources, that's not as good as searching commercial databases. But that's a different issue. I urge everyone who has commented upon this new elephant based on their own conceptions of its trunk and its tail to, at the very least, browse some of the asked-and-answered questions online. /rich On Thu, 23 May 2002, Robert Tiess wrote > > Richard Wiggins wrote: > > I believe it's possible that the paid Google model > > can lead to compiled results superior to what the > > free Web-based desk will deliver -- and in much less time. > > Precompiled results, as in questions already answered, can be good or bad: information > changes, especially in fields such as heath, law, and the sciences, such as your astronomy example. Even history "changes" when new historical documents and information becomes available -- stuff that doesn't make it to the web right away, or ever: stuff only professional librarians are likely to know of or have access to (versus the non-librarian online researcher). > > While Google's approach could lead to more quickly compiled results, libraries offering virtual reference services could and should build their own internal knowledge databases so that librarians have one more local source to consult before going out on the web: they can check there to see if another librarian at that institution has answered a similar question. I have done this at my library, and it has proved very helpful. > > Throughout this debate some people may have forgotten that, while online research services can often connect people with good information, it's really the local librarian who is in the best position to offer answers where local community related queries are concerned: the online researcher geographically situated elsewhere may not be aware of resources available where the patron lives; this is especially the case where the location of a patron is kept anonymous. > > Also worth noting: the online researcher paid to answer questions likely does not have access to the licensed databases and print resources most librarians would have at their disposal. This is more than a noteworthy disadvantage and could very easily make the difference between a minimally acceptable answer and a comprehensive, definitive answer; why pay for the former when you could get the latter for free? > > Researchers really would be best served by going first to their local libraries. This is what my own research network, ResPool, had urged all members to do before submitting questions. Go straight to the best community based information source, and then consult third party services if acceptable answers are not provided. It would be nice if more online reference services realized and emphasized that. People really need to rediscover what libraries offer for free. > > Robert Tiess > rjtiess@warwick.net Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From mrempel at peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca Mon May 27 10:44:20 2002 From: mrempel at peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca (Michelle Rempel) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:06 2005 Subject: Bandwidth/Internet Radio Message-ID: <02May27.081757mdt.119041@trojan.peacelibrarysystem.ab.ca> I'll try this again as it seems the message I sent about this on Friday ended up in a black hole somewhere. Do you allow staff to use Internet radio? If you have, how have you justified this either way? Have you done studies or come across studies that show what kind of consumption of bandwidth occurs with Internet radio? We have an approx 1.5 mbps ADSL connection and are looking at whether or not to limit or outlaw Internet radio. Any experiences would be appreciated. Thanks! Michelle Rempel From rjtiess at warwick.net Mon May 27 13:35:52 2002 From: rjtiess at warwick.net (Robert Tiess) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:06 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions References: <20020526224504.24648.h023.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <3CF26E78.73D49C3@warwick.net> Richard Wiggins wrote: > I'm afraid my use of the term "compiled results" may have misled you. The > whole premise of Google Answers is: I offer to pay a sum of money for > someone to go out and research my question anew. By "compiled results" I > meant a set of answers (citations and annotations) compiled by the > researcher in response to the question just posed. Your clarification of is helpful, but, realistically, a researcher, paid or otherwise, might not always go out and research completely "anew," nor might that be necessary; it depends on the nature of the question and answers which might already be "out there" in some form or primary source. Richard Wiggins wrote: > Google Answers is not AskJeeves; it is not a set of pathfinders > or FAQs; it is not a knowledge base. I'm quite familiar with AskJeeves and wouldn't necessarily call it a true knowledgebase. It admirably matches keywords embedded in questions with mostly relevant websites, but, without actually knowing its internal parsing algorithms, it's difficult to tell if it's more KB than search engine. For me it's more of a hybrid KB/search engine, since draws on multiple methods (as described at http://static.wc.ask.com/docs/about/policy.html). As it exists right now, Google Answers can be considered a public knowledgebase under construction. It's not searchable, but people can browse specific answers to specific questions, which I'd consider the makings of a KB: https://answers.google.com/answers/faq.html#publiclyviewable There's nothing I've seen in their FAQ regarding questions "asked and answered," but, if their service takes off, the issue of duplicate questions becomes inevitable. Does the archive then become searchable? I think it should. If ten people ask what is the capital of a certain state, why should nine of those ten pay for an answer when it already has been answered? (Why any of them should have paid to begin with is a separate issue.) The compilation of answers could lead to a searchable knowledgebase. Whether that KB also becomes public or yet another pay-per-view resource is yet another issue. Richard Wiggins wrote: > Thus if I asked a question concerning the hearbreak of psoriasis or efficacy > of laser eye surgery, I'd expect the researcher to compile a new list of > source links at that time. While you'd expect that (and while that might even be expected of the researcher), the reality of the matter is that, if your question has been satisfactorily answered in an existing resource, the researcher might just give you one hyperlink (which could be a meta level resource), as in "coping resources" for your "heartbreak of psoriasis" example: http://www.psoriasis.org/f350.htm Scope is something your query determines and you help refine by telling the proxy researcher if you need more or less information. Specificity of the question predetermines its answer(s). In-person reference transactions help to immediately resolve misunderstanding and expectations between patron and librarian, while an online reference service in a message board format is not necessarily as immediate. If speed is considered the edge for paid reference services on the web, clearly that isn't always true. Understanding, anywhere, takes time. In the end, no matter how long it takes to research any topic, there's only so much "new" research that can be conducted, even when you're willing to pay for it. Richard Wiggins wrote: > Yes, if the researcher limits him/herself to > freely-available Web resources, that's not as good as searching commercial > databases. But that's a different issue. It's also a big issue: free web resources only cover so much, and in such cases you might not get what you are willing to pay for. It only takes one good question to reveal how lacking the web is. One question involving specific literary criticism, for example, reveals how little the web provides. I privately and professionally catalog a number of things, including online literary resources, so I'm fairly aware of what's out there and what's not. Without access to such things as Contemporary Literary Criticism in print or Gale's literary databases, the paid researcher confined to free resources is genuinely limited. If she or he belongs to a library housing such materials or licensing such databases, information can be unearthed -- if there is incentive for persistence. Incentive equals money for paid researchers, while at most a good librarian needs is the sense of having helped someone. A search such as this requires persistence, patience, awareness of and access to "deep" resources: you often do not find what you need in a single volume of CLC, Twayne, or Bloom -- perhaps for high school students, but rarely for college students. Good literary research is rarely so simple. I say this not only as an information specialist but as a degreed English Literature major. Richard Wiggins wrote: > I urge everyone who has commented upon this new elephant based on their own > conceptions of its trunk and its tail to, at the very least, browse some of > the asked-and-answered questions online. I've seen the Q&A, and it's not bad. I'm not sure I'd have advised people to pay for most of the answers before freely consulting their public libraries. Some of the questions and answers are funny (e.g. see "What is up?" https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=17336). Hey, you can even pay to ask questions already answered at Google's site: For $4.00: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=17423 Free answers at: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=apply https://answers.google.com/answers/researcherguidelines.html Sure, there's a market for this, but it's not really a "new elephant." The essence of what Google is doing is not new; its model might be unique, but the idea of paying someone to find something for you isn't. The success of the service, yet to be determined, might owe more to brand name recognition than to the quality of service. It's too early to tell. The thing is that public libraries are always going to have the ultimate advantage over paid services because public libraries are free and superior in too many ways. And what happens when people realize they don't have to pay for something someone's doing better and for free? Remember what happened to Netscape Navigator when Internet Explorer became free? Now that Netscape is free again (through the continued hard work of people at Mozilla.org), history has come full circle and much-needed healthier competition may return. Everyone ought to have realized the library's powers by now. Subscription based general reference services cannot compete, in the long term, with free public library resources and services. We cannot "beat them," nor do we have to "join them" because they will never provide services wholly comparable to ours. They may appear to come close, but they cannot replicate the complete library experience, the community -- above all, the librarian. The virtual world just isn't that good. The trick is getting people to realize that and see the benefits in visiting the library (or at least the library's website). So where's the competition? Librarians long dispelled any suggestion they are in competition with the Internet, instead demonstrating the Internet extends a librarian's capabilities and a library's potential service area. Aside from funding and inner library system "competition" (e.g. circ stats/"busiest library"), I'd say the only real long term competitors libraries have at this point are themselves: libraries decide their destinies. Failing to raise public awareness of freely available resources and services (online or in-house) indirectly refers patrons to external reference services: this is how we beat ourselves. While it might seem too commonsensical or silly to implement, a campaign highlighting the many free resources a library offers could easily save patrons a lot of grief and money while attuning communities to what the library actually does and provides. Far too many people do not know. Don't ask Jeeves, ask them. Robert Tiess From bennetttm at appstate.edu Tue May 28 10:04:21 2002 From: bennetttm at appstate.edu (Thomas Bennett) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: postgresql upgrade problem Message-ID: Okay, so I didn't read the documentation first. Before I subscribe to another list(PostgreSQL) I thought I would seek assistance here first. I have upgraded PostgreSQL from 6.5 to 7.2 but did not run pg_dumpall before the upgrade. Now, trying to start the database I get the message that I need to upgrade the data format. Well, to upgrade the data format you need to run pg_dumpall from the old db and then run pg_restore to restore the db in the new db engine. pg_dump/pg_dumpall will not run if the database engine is not running and the db engine will not run since the db format has not been dumped from the old version and restored to the new version. Does anyone know a work around for this? Can I move the "base" directory to the new location and the system db's. Thomas ps. The reason for all this dump and restore is that after version 6.5 PostgreSQL changed most of the directory paths for its data and program files. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Use The Help Desk at http://linux.library.appstate.edu/help ----------------------------------------------------------------- Rock and Rule Zope Rocks -- http://www.zope.org Python Rules -- http://www.python.org ----------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University Computer Consultant III University Library Voice: 828 262 6587 FAX: 828 262 2797 Windows 95 is a 32-bit extension to a 16-bit patch for an 8-bit operating system that was originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor. - Chris Dunphy Boot Magazine From PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net Tue May 28 10:06:10 2002 From: PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net (GRAY, PAUL) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: do what's right -- was - [WEB4LIB] RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? Message-ID: >The easiest and best thing to do is to do that which is right. I >assume you respect private property of other sorts, and wouldn't drive >my car away without permission, even if I left the keys in the >ignition and the car unlocked. Why not do the same with the LSoft >folks and their intellectual property? >dan >-- >Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 >3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA >www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! You mean to tell me that my having the ability to find and download something from the Internet doesn't give me the inalienable human right to copy ANYTHING I want and use it ANYWAY I like? Next thing you will tell me I actually need to buy a cd if I want to listen to music and I cant copy a news article from CNN and turn it in as a research paper. What IS this world coming to. PHG Hurst, TX From ldjaffe at cats.ucsc.edu Tue May 28 12:57:44 2002 From: ldjaffe at cats.ucsc.edu (Lee Jaffe) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? In-Reply-To: <17102334779.20020524231843@riverofdata.com> References: <17102334779.20020524231843@riverofdata.com> Message-ID: Regardless of copyright -- and I'm not saying we should disregard copyright seriously -- I would hope that anyone writing or teaching about these technologies would want to be accurate. Listserv refers to a specific product, whereas "mailing list server" or list server (for short) refers to a group of products which includes Listserv, mailman, etc. Ironically, I had an editor try to change every instance of list server to Listserv in a book I was writing, even thought I explained in an introductory paragraph the distinction between the two terms. -- Lee -- ================================================================== Lee David Jaffe Library Computing & Network Services 168B McHenry Library ldjaffe@cats.ucsc.edu University of California 831.459.3297 fax: 831.459.8206 Santa Cruz, California 95064 http://people.ucsc.edu/~ldjaffe From bernies at uillinois.edu Tue May 28 13:43:49 2002 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: Reference futures? Message-ID: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CFA81@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> I'm wrapping up preparations for a talk I'll be giving at an ALA preconference on virtual reference services, and I wanted to get some reactions to a few questions: 1. Figuring that the future of virtual reference services may in some way be linked to in-library, face-to-face reference services, what do you see as the future of "traditional" reference services? Some data show that the number of reference questions asked has been declining for a number of years. Other data show little change in the number of questions asked, or even a slight increase. Do you think face-to-face reference services will become more important in the future? Less important? Why? 2. What do you see as the future of virtual reference services? Both in the technical sense and the programmatic sense. What new technologies or functions will we see, or would you like to see? Will virtual reference catch on so that it serves a critical mass of your library's users? Or will virtual reference remain a supplement to face-to-face reference, serving a "niche" market? Thanks! Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 338 Henry Administration Building 506 S. Wright Street Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From mitchmd at lithgow.lib.me.us Tue May 28 14:07:25 2002 From: mitchmd at lithgow.lib.me.us (Mike Mitchell) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: Filtering and shared OPACs Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020528140725.00967cd8@mail.msln.net> This CIPA thing has got me wondering- if a library uses an Internet filter that is tied to banned key words, as many are, and shares a Web-based off-site server for its ILS- then how does one find a book like Sex and destiny : the politics of human fertility? Wouldn't the display of that info be blocked unless one could specify the server IP as unblocked? Even if one could exclude the home server from the filter, what happens when patrons search other OPACs looking for Sex and destiny : the politics of human fertility? How do libraries deal with this OPAC issue? Or are they just darned glad their kids aren't exposed to such filth over the Internet even if it is hidden right there on the shelf? Forgive me if this starts The Debate all over again. I'm really wondering about this question though. Michael Mitchell Systems Librarian Lithgow Public Library Augusta, ME mitchmd@lithgow.lib.me.us From ljwalton at nwu.edu Tue May 28 15:06:11 2002 From: ljwalton at nwu.edu (Linda Walton) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: Job posting-Knowledge Management Librarian-Chicago Message-ID: <4.1.20020528140440.00b3c780@pop3.norton.antivirus> GALTER HEALTH SCIENCES LIBRARY The Feinberg School of Medicine Northwestern University, Chicago KNOWLEDGE MANAGEMENT LIBRARIAN The Galter Health Sciences Library seeks a dynamic team player for its Knowledge Management Librarian. The individual should be creative and enthusiastic about providing new and innovative technology solutions for enhancing services to users. Position Desciption The Galter Library Information Systems Department (IS) is responsible for providing automated systems in support of the Library’s operational and service goals. Information Systems staff engage in complex design, development, and integration projects including World Wide Web, MEDLINE (OVID), and Voyager systems. The IS Department is responsible for all public and staff computing. The Knowledge Management Librarian will: · Maintain the electronic library. · Develop systems for collecting and organizing information. · Act as technology liaison to other staff and departments within the library. · Engage in coordinating and supporting the library’s information system and the links to existing and future systems. · Investigate and evaluate new enterprises and electronic projects. · Scan technology and library environments for systems and information services. · Provide continuing input for the potential improvement of information systems. POSITION REPORTS TO: Head, Information Systems Duties and Responsibilities · Build the various databases comprising the electronic library. · Develops the electronic library’s web sites, databases, forms, reserves, and other through HTML, Cold Fusion and other tools as needed. · Identify and implement new electronic projects. · Work with other library departments to optimize electronic resources and skills. · Provide faculty consultation regarding information systems. · Serve on Communications Committee, Professional Council, and other committees as appropriate. · Participate in reference and education services as appropriate. REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS Background Qualifications · Master’s degree in library/information science from an ALA accredited program · Experience in maintaining information resources · Experience with multi-user relational and textual databases is essential · Proficient with Access, Cold Fusion, HTML programming and Web graphics, · Experience with Cascading Stylesheets, JavaScript, Perl CGI programming preferred · Member of the MLA Academy of Health Information Professionals preferred · Minimum 2 years experience in an academic library preferred Performance Qualifications · Excellent communication and interpersonal skills · Ability to work well in a team and service-oriented environment · Evidence of initiative and flexibility · Demonstrated organizational and problem-solving skills · Commitment to personal continuing education and involvement in the profession MINIMUM SALARY: $47,000 APPLICATION DEADLINE: July 1, 2002 PROPOSED START DATE: September 1, 2002 APPLICATIONS TO: Linda Walton, Associate Director Galter Health Sciences Library Northwestern University 303 East Chicago Avenue Chicago, IL 60611 E-mail: ljwalton@nwu.edu FAX: 312-503-1204 LIBRARY ENVIRONMENT The Galter Health Sciences Library supports the educational, research and patient care activities of The Feinberg School of Medicine for Northwestern University. The library houses a collection of print, non-print and electronic materials for use by faculty, staff, students, and alumni of the university and its affiliated institutions and includes more than 290,000 volumes, 1,900 serial subscriptions, and over 3,300 non-print titles and computer programs. The staff actively assists in meeting the many and varied information needs of its users through a range of services. Cornerstones of the electronic library include Voyager, the integrated library system; the Galter Library Online Services system, and the OVID Technology databases (MEDLINE, Evidence Based Medicine Reviews, Journals @ Ovid, CINAHL, EMBASE: Pharmacology and Drugs, PsycInfo, and BIOSIS). The electronic library demonstrates to users the growing integration of resources accessible from a multitude of locations. Resources are highly selective to match Northwestern University interests and priorities. The components of the new information system support the vision and mission of the institutions served by the Galter Library. The Galter Library is a charter member of the HealthWeb project, an organized and critically evaluated, and regularly updated Web site of health-related information resources. The Galter Library staff participates in HealthWeb committees and is responsible for HealthWeb subject pages in Diabetes, Endocrinology, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Nutrition, Physical Therapy, and Physiology. The Galter Library is a recent recipient of an NLM Systems Grant to design and implement the HealthSmart Library. NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER. 5/02 Linda Walton, MLS Associate Director Galter Health Sciences Library Northwestern University 303 East Chicago Avenue Chicago, IL 60611-3008 312-503-8133 312-503-1204 FAX ljwalton@nwu.edu http://www.galter.nwu.edu ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From plum at ulink.net Tue May 28 16:02:16 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? In-Reply-To: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CFA45@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Just a final bit of irony on this topic: At http://www.textdoctor.com/resources.htm#copyright , Textdoctor.com has an annotated list of links including this one: "Online Copyright Tutorial http://www.iupui.edu/it/copyinfo/online_tutorial.html A site intended to help educators move away from the fearful image of copyright as an annoying or threatening beast and to work with copyright while maintaining focus on academic pursuits. Includes a listserv." From omalleye at emmanuel.edu Tue May 28 16:47:26 2002 From: omalleye at emmanuel.edu (Elena O'Malley) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: learning to deal with a server Message-ID: Gillian: I'm sure you've been deluged with recommendations about the new server and html. You probably know this already, but please allow me to reinforce a few points. 1) Security patches are very important. If you don't feel confident about maintaining the server in that manner, I encourage you to ask for help from web4lib, the city's IT folks, or whoever else is handy. 2) Dreamweaver's site features are helpful. Even though sites begin as a few pages, it can make your work a good bit easier right from the start. The latest version of Dreamweaver contains the text of some O'Reilly books, so check before you buy the books separately. 3) I consider the following book to be a great investment at $35: Conway, Stuart, et al. HTML 4.01: Programmer's Reference. Wrox Press, 2001. ISBN: 1861005334 (I have no affliation with Wrox Press or any of the authors.) It might look a bit intimidating, but it is quite friendly and covers the basics. As an added bonus, it contains charts of what does and doesn't work in: HTML versions 2 through 4 Cascading Style Sheets 1 & 2 Internet Explorer and Netscape versions 2 through 6 Opera 5 It also discusses accessibility issues for people with disabilities and XHTML. Good luck and best wishes on this endeavor. Elena O'Malley, Technology Librarian Emmanuel College, Cardinal Cushing Library 400 The Fenway, Boston, MA 02115 omalleye@emmanuel.edu From emnudell at unm.edu Tue May 28 16:57:51 2002 From: emnudell at unm.edu (Eric Nudell) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: The word "listserv" copyrighted? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c2068a$555e6ba0$f9d01881@unm.edu> Another bit of irony. I just performed a google search for "listserv" and received 2,270,000 hits. -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Nancy Sosna Bohm Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? Just a final bit of irony on this topic: At http://www.textdoctor.com/resources.htm#copyright , Textdoctor.com has an annotated list of links including this one: "Online Copyright Tutorial http://www.iupui.edu/it/copyinfo/online_tutorial.html A site intended to help educators move away from the fearful image of copyright as an annoying or threatening beast and to work with copyright while maintaining focus on academic pursuits. Includes a listserv." From raywood at magma.ca Tue May 28 17:55:14 2002 From: raywood at magma.ca (Raymond Wood) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE:do what's right -- was - RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? Message-ID: <20020528215514.GB491@magma.ca> > >The easiest and best thing to do is to do that which is > >right. I assume you respect private property of other sorts, > >and wouldn't drive my car away without permission, even if I > >left the keys in the ignition and the car unlocked. Why not > >do the same with the LSoft folks and their intellectual > >property? dan > >-- > >Dan Lester On Tue, May 28, 2002 at 07:12:30AM -0700, GRAY, PAUL imagined: > You mean to tell me that my having the ability to find and > download something from the Internet doesn't give me the > inalienable human right to copy ANYTHING I want and use it > ANYWAY I like? > > Next thing you will tell me I actually need to buy a cd if I > want to listen to music and I cant copy a news article from > CNN and turn it in as a research paper. > > What IS this world coming to. > > PHG A mistake I see sometimes is when people assume that the mock sentiments you express above are based on a 'Free Software' point of view. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact Free Software, based as it is on the GNU Public License (GPL) license, uses the mechanisms of copyright to ensure that software remains free -- hence the term 'copyleft' for GPL'd software. It is software *patents*, and not copyright issues, that represent a major threat to the future of Free Software (and Software Freedom :) My $0.02, Raymond -- "You deserve to be able to cooperate openly and freely with other people who use software. You deserve free software." -Richard M. Stallman, Free Software Foundation, http://www.fsf.org From gprice at gwu.edu Tue May 28 18:15:06 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: Report: "The Status of Technology and Digitization in the Nation's Museums and Libraries" Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020528181412.02abb9b0@imap.gwu.edu> Hello from D.C. A report with results of an IMLS (Institute of Museum and Library Services) survey was placed online in the past few days. Report Title: The Status of Technology and Digitization in the Nation's Museums and Libraries From the announcement: "A federal report quantifies, for the first time, how computers, software, and information sharing technologies are changing the work of museums and libraries. The federal Institute of Museum and Library Services surveyed more than 700 professionals in libraries and museums of all types and sizes about their technology use and digitization activities." From the findings section of the press announcement: Eighty-seven percent of museums and at least 99 percent of surveyed libraries use at least some technology, most commonly: desktop computers, Internet access, e-mail, standard office software, Web sites, computerized collection catalogs, and network servers. Other findings: *Digitization activities are an emerging focus in museums in libraries, with substantial working being done by State Library Administrative Agencies. *Larger institutions with larger budgets and larger service populations, whether museums or libraries, reported greater usage and more kinds of technology than smaller institutions. The disparity was especially pronounced for museums. Sixty seven percent of the museum respondents reported having budgets less than $250,000; thirteen percent of these indicated no technology use, not even desktop computers. *Libraries' technology use is pervasive, and libraries indicated having sources of funds that have enabled them to invest in technologies. Sources for public libraries include E-Rate telecommunications discounts, grants under the IMLS Library Services and Technology Act, and grants from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. All surveyed libraries may receive funding through IMLS' programs supported through the Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA). *Museums have fewer sources of funds for investment in technology, relying on operating funds, gifts from donors, and in-kind contributions. Twenty percent report having no funding for technology. The report is available at the following urls: Summary, http://www.imls.gov/whatsnew/current/052802.htm Full-Text (html), http://www.imls.gov/Reports/TechReports/intro02.htm Full-Text (pdf), http://www.imls.gov/Reports/TechReports/2002Report.pdf cheers, gary Looking for More News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.freepint.com Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gary@freepint.com From PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net Tue May 28 18:16:51 2002 From: PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net (GRAY, PAUL) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE:do what's right -- was - RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? Message-ID: >> What IS this world coming to. >> >> PHG >A mistake I see sometimes is when people assume that the mock >sentiments you express above are based on a 'Free Software' >point of view. Nothing could be further from the truth. > >In fact Free Software, based as it is on the GNU Public License >(GPL) license, uses the mechanisms of copyright to ensure that >software remains free -- hence the term 'copyleft' for GPL'd >software. > >It is software *patents*, and not copyright issues, that >represent a major threat to the future of Free Software (and >Software Freedom :) > >My $0.02, >Raymond >-- >"You deserve to be able to cooperate openly and freely with other >people who use software. You deserve free software." > -Richard M. Stallman, Free Software Foundation, http://www.fsf.org hey -- If someone wants to create something - whether it is software or music or whatever - and place it in the public domain for the good of humanity or just because they want to or for whatever reason -- that is GREAT!! They should be commended - May their tribe increase many fold --- BUT -- I RESENT GREATLY and am very troubled by the attitude that just because I CAN access something that I have a RIGHT to -- and that no one has the right to restrict or even profit from my access and use of anything. It has been accepted for HUNDREDS of years that people who invest time and talent into creating something have the right to profit from it and to have a say so into how it is used. And that right is theirs UNLESS they CHOOSE to relenquish it. The fact that the computer makes it easy to circumvent this does not make it right. Sorry -- but this is a hot button issue for me -- We have raised at least a couple of generations now of folks with no concern beyond themselves and a DEMAND for their own rights -- often where no such right exists -- and a total disregard for the rights of anyone else. Yes - my comments were made with what I hoped was clear - and relatively good natured sarcasm. But I deal with enough people to know that MANY actually HOLD those attitudes - and that troubles me about the state of our society -- I'm sorry - but WANTING something - and DESERVING it -- and having a RIGHT to it -- are three VERY different things --- if they weren't -- I would be driving a tricked out maroon Prowler - instead of a base model Tracker :-) Opinions are my own -- NOT to be construed as those of my employer -- PHG Hurst, TX From hewlett at usfca.edu Tue May 28 19:30:16 2002 From: hewlett at usfca.edu (Jean Hewlett) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions References: <37347568156.20020524131628@riverofdata.com> Message-ID: <3CF41308.30EF74D6@usfca.edu> I was talking with two of my daughter's friends this weekend (early 30s, not at all intellectual), and they asked what I do at the library. They were amazed to find that I answer questions. "You mean I can come in and ask for information about basket weaving and you'll find it for me? No wonder you don't publicize that service--you'd be overwhelmed with questions if people knew it was available." Jean Hewlett North Bay Cooperative Library System / University of San Francisco hewlett@usfca.edu Dan Lester wrote: > Friday, May 24, 2002, 11:20:05 AM, you wrote: > >> I don't think this is accurate. We've already established that some > >> of them are done by moonlighting librarians. In addition, they could > >> be done by someone else with a library connection, such as a > >> researcher or other patron who has access in the library, or remotely. > > RT> The key word, of course, is "some." Some probably are librarians, but > RT> so what: why hope your question gets answered by a "moonlighting > RT> librarian" or "someone with a library connection" when you > RT> can go to your local library first, physically, by telephone (or > RT> virtually through a VRD if they have one) and interact with a real > RT> professional librarian directly? I suppose it's all well and > RT> good if "you're feeling lucky" (to paraphrase Google's famous words), > RT> but why wouldn't a sensible person begin with the best possible > RT> starting point, which is the library? > > Because most sensible persons.... > 1) Never think of libraries. > 2) Haven't been in a library in years > 3) Think that libraries and librarians are old and stuffy and wouldn't > know good and useful stuff. > 4) Want to get it from the net and want it RIGHT NOW. > 5) Too many others to mention > > As far as feeling lucky, in most libraries you take that gamble on who > you run into at the desk. Some are good, some are bad, some in the > middle, and of course that is compounding by varying abilities in > varying subject areas. > > RT> I sometimes get the impression some people may have lost some faith > RT> in libraries since the Internet became widely accessible. I know I haven't. > > Most people NEVER HAD any faith in libraries. They were either a > place where you had to go in school, and you probably hated, or > they're a nice place to go get a mystery novel to read in bed. > > RT> If anything, librarians are more capable than ever. > > Of course they are. But our light is under the bushel. Not that I > have any magic answers for moving the bushel, or building up the fire > enough to burn away the bushel. > > RT> Why not tap that freely available power instead of paying for > RT> potentially inferior information? As far as "someone with a > RT> library connection," that someone is not the equivalent (or even > RT> likely a reasonable approximation) of a librarian; to suggest > RT> anything to the contrary is to imply librarians have nothing more > RT> to offer than the untrained searcher at home who sincerely > RT> believes anything everything can be found on the web in a definitive, > RT> unbiased, and comprehensive format. > > Whoa....I'm not thinking of people who are into some "work at home and > get rich quick" scheme. I'm thinking of accomplished researchers in > almost any field, but who don't happen to be librarians. I can think > of all sorts of friends and neighbors, on and off campus, who have > great research skills, at least in their subject areas. I'm liaison > to chemistry, and I can guarantee you that there's no librarian here > who can come close to the weakest of the chemists in searching > chemical literature. And if any of those folks want to make a few > bucks hanging around the net.... Hey, I wouldn't even know if their > use of ChemAbs online was for their research or to answer their Google > question.... I'd just get the bill. > > RT> Professional librarians know this not to be the case and, rightfully > RT> so, often invoke Internet searching as a last resort. > > And that's a problem. I work just four hours a week at reference. > I've not done ref regularly (i.e. 20 hours a week or so) for many > years. But I also see colleagues take patrons off on some long and > tough print search for something I can pop up on the net for them > before they even get off to that section of the reference stacks. The > old "if the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, it is the right > tool for everything" cuts both ways. > > RT> We must remember what valuable resources are exclusively maintained at > RT> our libraries, many of which do not circulate and are kept on ready > RT> reference shelves that the public does not have immediate access to, > RT> along with other information, such as rare local history > RT> documents. The hypothetical untrained searcher "with a library > RT> connection" can only go so far. Even "moonlighting librarians" can > RT> only go so far, unless they are earning extra income answering > RT> questions while on the job (i.e. "double dipping"), which would raise > RT> ethical questions and provide potential grounds for dismissal. > > No argument with any of the above. However, for twenty bucks you're > not going to get anyone to come into the library between 8 and 5 and > dig through special collections of rare local history.... > > RT> Granted, public access to databases is better than ever, but most > RT> users rarely tap the full potential of a database, relying > RT> overwhelmingly on keyword searches versus advanced search interfaces > RT> and syntaxes. It certainly does become an issue when a patron get > RT> into serious, in-depth research, as in peer-reviewed journal articles. > > Again, no argument. But for the vast majority of questions in > academic libraries the advanced search features are not necessary. I'm > not sure they'd be needed for the googlequestions I've seen either. > > RT> Fundamental issues also come into play, such as a librarian's awareness > RT> of existing, definitive resources (in and beyond journals), versus the > RT> untrained online researcher-for-hire who, yes, might have access to some > RT> databases and library services, but may not have either the experience, > RT> discipline, or complete access to in-house only databases a real > RT> librarian has in order to fully answer another person's question. > > Once again, the researcher for hire may be ten times better than any > librarian, at least in his/her field, and that is presumably the field > that they'd be picking googlequestions in. And those freelancers > certainly have access to libraries. We see bunches of them in our > library, that's for sure. > > RT> It should be so obvious the professional librarian has multiple > RT> advantages over lesser educated and equipped researchers-for-hire > RT> and really is the best first person to consult. > > I've never argued against starting with a librarian. I've been trying > to indicate that we professional librarians aren't the be-all and > end-all of research, and we certainly don't have, or don't even have > access to, all the answers. I've also been trying to indicate that the > majority of questions are simple and hardly require all the wonderful > things or resources you describe. > > cheers > > dan > > -- > Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 > 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA > www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! From raywood at magma.ca Wed May 29 00:01:10 2002 From: raywood at magma.ca (Raymond Wood) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:07 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE:do what's right -- was - RE: The word "listserv" copyrighted? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020529040110.GA1704@magma.ca> > >> What IS this world coming to. > >> > >> PHG Raymond meandered: > >A mistake I see sometimes is when people assume that the mock > >sentiments you express above are based on a 'Free Software' > >point of view. Nothing could be further from the truth. > > > >In fact Free Software, based as it is on the GNU Public > >License (GPL) license, uses the mechanisms of copyright to > >ensure that software remains free -- hence the term > >'copyleft' for GPL'd software. > > > >It is software *patents*, and not copyright issues, that > >represent a major threat to the future of Free Software (and > >Software Freedom :) > > > >My $0.02, > >Raymond On Tue, May 28, 2002 at 03:21:35PM -0700, GRAY, PAUL imagined: > hey -- > If someone wants to create something - whether it is software > or music or whatever - and place it in the public domain for > the good of humanity or just because they want to or for > whatever reason -- that is GREAT!! The ALL-CAPS presentation is generally regarded as 'shouting' in net-speak -- please don't shout :) > They should be commended - > May their tribe increase many fold --- I agree. Point of clarification: 'free software' is not "in the public domain". Rather the original author(s) of the software retain their copyright, but license the software in such a way that (at least under the GPL license) the software is guaranteed to stay 'free' (as in beer, and as in speech, as the saying goes). > BUT -- I RESENT GREATLY and am very troubled by the attitude > that just because I CAN access something that I have a RIGHT > to -- and that no one has the right to restrict or even profit > from my access and use of anything. I would be surprised if most people on this list did not agree with you. At the same time I also wonder how many of those same people paid for the copy of the windows operating system on their computer (assuming they have not seen the light and switched to GNU/Linux ;) ? The statistics might be surprising, but I suppose we'll never really know for sure... > It has been accepted for HUNDREDS of years that people who > invest time and talent into creating something have the right > to profit from it and to have a say so into how it is used. > And that right is theirs UNLESS they CHOOSE to relenquish it. > The fact that the computer makes it easy to circumvent this > does not make it right. Yes, agreed. This is what copyright is all about AFAIK. > Sorry -- but this is a hot button issue for me -- We have > raised at least a couple of generations now of folks with no > concern beyond themselves and a DEMAND for their own rights -- > often where no such right exists -- and a total disregard for > the rights of anyone else. I can see it is a hot button issue -- I can also see that this is a matter of personal opinion, and that these kinds of statements are rather large generalizations ;> > Yes - my comments were made with what I hoped was clear - and > relatively good natured sarcasm. But I deal with enough > people to know that MANY actually HOLD those attitudes - and > that troubles me about the state of our society -- I suppose I would be troubled by this too if it were to become a widespread phenomenon. I'm not sure if this is indeed the case -- I'm not really sure how such a thing could be measured. > I'm sorry - but WANTING something - and DESERVING it -- and > having a RIGHT to it -- are three VERY different things --- if > they weren't -- I would be driving a tricked out maroon > Prowler - instead of a base model Tracker :-) > > Opinions are my own -- NOT to be construed as those of my > employer -- > > PHG > Hurst, TX And by now I gather we are very off-topic, so I'll stop here ;> Cheers, Raymond -- "You deserve to be able to cooperate openly and freely with other people who use software. You deserve free software." -Richard M. Stallman, Free Software Foundation, http://www.fsf.org From Traugott.Koch at ub2.lu.se Wed May 29 05:29:46 2002 From: Traugott.Koch at ub2.lu.se (Traugott.Koch@ub2.lu.se) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: Mark your calendar: ECDL 2003, August 17-22, Trondheim, Norway Message-ID: <200205290929.LAA11035@irlib.lub.lu.se> Mark your calendar now for ... ... next year's ECDL, the 7th European Conference on Research and Advanced Technology for Digital Libraries: **August 17-22, 2003 ECDL 2003 Trondheim, Norway** Tutorials will take place August 17 and workshops August 21 (-22). ECDL 2003 is the 7th conference in the series of European Digital Library conferences. ECDL has become the major European forum focusing on digital libraries and associated technical, practical, and social issues. ECDL 2003 has been moved from the traditional date in September (cf. ECDL 2002 in Rome, http://www.ecdl2002.org) to August. This is the reason for this early announcement. The first Call for Contributions and the conference website will be available from the middle of July 2002. For questions, comments and contributions please contact: the General Chair: Prof. Ingeborg T. Soelvberg, Dept. of Computer and Information Science, Norwegian University of Science and Technology Ingeborg.Solvberg@idi.ntnu.no or the Program Chair: Traugott Koch, NetLab, Lund University Libraries, Sweden Traugott.Koch@ub2.lu.se Best regards, Traugott Koch -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | TRAUGOTT KOCH, Senior librarian, Digital Library Scientist | NETLAB, Lund Univ. Libraries Development Dept. and Center | of Knowledge Technology at DTV/DTU in Lyngby, Denmark. | NetLab: P.O. Box 3. S-221 00 Lund, Sweden | Tel: int+46 46 2229233 Fax: int+46 46 2223682 | E-mail: traugott.koch@ub2.lu.se | Personal homepage: http://www.lub.lu.se/koch.html +-------------------------------------------------------------+ From dbosman at mail.lib.msu.edu Wed May 29 09:31:04 2002 From: dbosman at mail.lib.msu.edu (Bosman, Don) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <9ADF6F1B8F159448A143DC39FBA9F1EC109718@MAINLIB8.lib.msu.edu> I've been in various businesses all my life and came to realize that the ideal business model would be to give merchandise away, but charge a couple of dollars for each question. This of course presumes honest customers. -----Original Message----- >From: Jean Hewlett [mailto:hewlett@usfca.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:38 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions >I was talking with two of my daughter's friends this weekend (early 30s, not at all >intellectual), and they asked what I do at the library. They were amazed to find >that I answer questions. "You mean I can come in and ask for information about >basket weaving and you'll find it for me? No wonder you don't publicize that >service--you'd be overwhelmed with questions if people knew it was available." >Jean Hewlett >North Bay Cooperative Library System / University of San Francisco >hewlett@usfca.edu From mallerym at mail.montclair.edu Wed May 29 09:55:45 2002 From: mallerym at mail.montclair.edu (Mary A Mallery) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: Grow with LITA Open House at ALA Annual Message-ID: <25a022a358.2a35825a02@montclair.edu> You are invited to the Grow with LITA Open House at ALA Annual on Sunday, June 16th, between 10:30AM and noon in the Georgia World Congress Center, Room A302. Here, you can connect with chairs and representatives from LITA (the Library & Information Technology Association of ALA) committees and interest groups, including the *Top Technology Trends Committee *Technology Electronic Reviews (TER) Board *Web Coordinating Committee *Distance Learning Interest Group *Open Source Systems Interest Group There is more information on LITA Committees at: http://www.lita.org/committe/compage.htm and LITA Interest Groups at: http://www.lita.org/igs/igpage.htm Please join us to learn about opportunities for involvement in LITA! Mary Mallery Coordinator, Grow with LITA ****************************************** * Mary Mallery, Ph.D. * Assoc. Dean for Technical Services * Harry A. Sprague Library * Montclair State University * Upper Montclair, NJ 07043 * Phone: 973-655-7150 * Fax: 973-655-7780 * E-mail: mallerym@mail.montclair.edu ****************************************** From PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net Wed May 29 10:39:53 2002 From: PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net (GRAY, PAUL) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: >I've been in various businesses all my life and came to realize that the ideal business model >would be to give merchandise away, but charge a couple of dollars for each question. This of >course presumes honest customers. Well - I'm afraid that is a dangerous persumption. But - I agree with your model. Giving away the razor and charging for the blades is a tried and true practice that has made many fortunes. But I fear we are wandering way off topic (and yes I have been guilty) Maybe someone needs to start a list -- marketing4lib :-) PHG Hurst, TX From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Wed May 29 11:33:53 2002 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (Robin Boulton) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: Was:Google Answers, now: Marketing4Lib In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020529102950.01e2a7e0@lincserver1.linc.lib.il.us> Many a true word spoken in jest... there has been discussion within this thread of using professional marketing services to promote the value of libraries,and I think there are many examples of why it might be a good idea. I for one would be very interested in subscribing to such a list as marketing4lib. Is someone willing and able to start one? At 07:54 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, GRAY, PAUL wrote: > >I've been in various businesses all my life and came to realize that the > ideal business model > >would be to give merchandise away, but charge a couple of dollars for > each question. This of > >course presumes honest customers. > >Well - I'm afraid that is a dangerous persumption. >But - I agree with your model. Giving away the razor and charging for the >blades is a tried and true practice that has made many fortunes. > >But I fear we are wandering way off topic (and yes I have been guilty) >Maybe someone needs to start a list -- :-) >PHG >Hurst, TX From bennetr at wou.edu Wed May 29 13:17:07 2002 From: bennetr at wou.edu (Bennett, Roy - WOU Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: Desktop startup Message-ID: <3CF49C92.30043.44661F@localhost> We are looking for a way to provide screen information to students after they login to our Windows XP computers in the reference area. In the past, we did this by having the browser startup and display a Web "homepage" with information about down databases, telling users not to save to the C drive, listing printer problems, extra hours, a consent to follow campus computer policies, and etc. The user then clicked a link to go to our real library homepage. What other approaches and software are available to inform users initially about safe computer practices, library information, etc.? And during a user session, do any of you "push" content about new problems or events (e.g., email just went down) to user desktops? We are looking both for a way to inform people initially and an alternative to running around telling people about problems. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Roy Bennett Computer Services & Systems Librarian Hamersly Library Western Oregon University 345 N. Monmouth Ave. Monmouth, OR 97361-1396 Email: bennetr@wou.edu Voice: (503) 838-8893 Fax: (503) 838-8399 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net Wed May 29 12:28:51 2002 From: PAUL.GRAY at tccd.net (GRAY, PAUL) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Desktop startup Message-ID: We use a product that has been mentioned by others recently - CybraryN Among its many features is the ability to have a 'welcome' screen that stays up constantly when someone is not logged in - as well as a 'policy' screen that comes up --when-- they log in - and acts like the web page you mentioned - requiring the user to accept before being alowed to move on. Either/both of these screens can be modified remotely - they are simple centrally located text files. PHG Hurst, TX -----Original Message----- From: Bennett, Roy - WOU Library [mailto:bennetr@wou.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Desktop startup We are looking for a way to provide screen information to students after they login to our Windows XP computers in the reference area. In the past, we did this by having the browser startup and display a Web "homepage" with information about down databases, telling users not to save to the C drive, listing printer problems, extra hours, a consent to follow campus computer policies, and etc. The user then clicked a link to go to our real library homepage. What other approaches and software are available to inform users initially about safe computer practices, library information, etc.? And during a user session, do any of you "push" content about new problems or events (e.g., email just went down) to user desktops? We are looking both for a way to inform people initially and an alternative to running around telling people about problems. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Roy Bennett Computer Services & Systems Librarian Hamersly Library Western Oregon University 345 N. Monmouth Ave. Monmouth, OR 97361-1396 Email: bennetr@wou.edu Voice: (503) 838-8893 Fax: (503) 838-8399 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From dcmor at mun.ca Wed May 29 14:03:53 2002 From: dcmor at mun.ca (Dianne Cmor) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: metadata and related links Message-ID: Greetings all, I'm looking for examples of library (or educational) websites that are utilizing metadata in order to dynamically generate "Related Pages" links. Any leads? thanks in advance, Dianne Cmor Email: dcmor@mun.ca Information Services Librarian Voice: (709) 737-7427 Queen Elizabeth II Library Fax: (709) 737-2153 Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's, Newfoundland A1B 3Y1 From carver.50 at osu.edu Wed May 29 14:04:35 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: Marketing4Lib In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020529102950.01e2a7e0@lincserver1.linc.lib.il.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020529140334.012bfb70@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> I am willing and able, are we sure there is nothing out there already? At 08:58 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, Robin Boulton wrote: >Many a true word spoken in jest... there has been discussion within this >thread of using professional marketing services to promote the value of >libraries,and I think there are many examples of why it might be a good >idea. I for one would be very interested in subscribing to such a list as >marketing4lib. Is someone willing and able to start one? > ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From stefaan.renard at vub.ac.be Wed May 29 14:16:08 2002 From: stefaan.renard at vub.ac.be (Stefaan Renard) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] metadata and related links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020529201149.00b13b00@pop.vub.ac.be> >I'm looking for examples of library (or educational) websites that are >utilizing metadata in order to dynamically generate "Related Pages" links. >Any leads? Take a look at the OpenURL initiative: Regards, Stefaan >thanks in advance, >Dianne Cmor Email: dcmor@mun.ca >Information Services Librarian Voice: (709) 737-7427 >Queen Elizabeth II Library Fax: (709) 737-2153 >Memorial University of Newfoundland >St. John's, Newfoundland A1B 3Y1 Stefaan Renard Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB) Universiteitsbibliotheek URL: Vlink demo: Pleinlaan 2, B-1050 Brussel (Belgium) Gebouw B, 2de verdieping, lokaal 2 B 114 tel (direct) : +32- (0)2-629.37.04 tel (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.09 fax (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.93 e-mail : ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From scottp at moondog.usask.ca Wed May 29 14:21:30 2002 From: scottp at moondog.usask.ca (Peter Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:08 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Marketing4Lib In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020529140334.012bfb70@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: Well, there is this: http://www.librarysupportstaff.com/marketinglibs.html On Wed, 29 May 2002, Blake Carver wrote: >I am willing and able, are we sure there is nothing out there already? > >At 08:58 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, Robin Boulton wrote: >>Many a true word spoken in jest... there has been discussion within this >>thread of using professional marketing services to promote the value of >>libraries,and I think there are many examples of why it might be a good >>idea. I for one would be very interested in subscribing to such a list as >>marketing4lib. Is someone willing and able to start one? From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Wed May 29 14:31:17 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: metadata and related links Message-ID: I thought OpenURL provided links to specific documents. How could it be implemented to provide links to "Related Pages"? Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Stefaan Renard 5/29/02 1:24:10 PM >>> >I'm looking for examples of library (or educational) websites that are >utilizing metadata in order to dynamically generate "Related Pages" links. >Any leads? Take a look at the OpenURL initiative: Regards, Stefaan >thanks in advance, >Dianne Cmor Email: dcmor@mun.ca >Information Services Librarian Voice: (709) 737-7427 >Queen Elizabeth II Library Fax: (709) 737-2153 >Memorial University of Newfoundland >St. John's, Newfoundland A1B 3Y1 Stefaan Renard Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB) Universiteitsbibliotheek URL: Vlink demo: Pleinlaan 2, B-1050 Brussel (Belgium) Gebouw B, 2de verdieping, lokaal 2 B 114 tel (direct) : +32- (0)2-629.37.04 tel (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.09 fax (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.93 e-mail : ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From fgomez at criba.edu.ar Wed May 29 14:38:05 2002 From: fgomez at criba.edu.ar (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_G=F3mez?=) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: Analyzing OPAC logs Message-ID: <016f01c2073f$f906c620$88bad2aa@uns.edu.ar> Hello! I am planning to start a detailed analysis of our logs, which have been accumulating for more than six months since we launched a new Web PAC. The purpose of this mail is to ask for some ideas about this task: guidelines, pointers to interesting or innovative works in this area, or whatever you would like to share. I thought it could be inspiring to know how others are processing their own data (and if that processing leads to some kind of improvement). Our system has been designed in-house (using Bireme's WWWISIS technology), so we have great freedom to decide what information to save in the logs. Up to now, we are logging: * date & time * IP number (REMOTE_ADDR) * query * database (i.e. books, videos, periodicals, etc.) * type of search (author, title, etc.) * no. of hits * no. of page solicited (we show 10 records per page) * source of the query (an expression typed in the search form, a link appearing in a previously displayed result, etc.) This seems enough to harvest a great deal of useful information regarding user behavior, failed searches, shortcomings in the system, ... A concrete point that puzzles me a bit (not exactly library-related): what concrete information can you extract form the list of IP numbers (the REMOTE_ADDR variable)? Does the count of different IP numbers mean anything? Is there any geographical information you can extract from them? Well, thanks in advance for all your help. :) Fernando G?mez Bah?a Blanca, Argentina From carver.50 at osu.edu Wed May 29 14:39:03 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Marketing4Lib In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020529140334.012bfb70@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020529143819.012b9398@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> I would think The Shy Librarian has it covered: http://www.shylibrarian.com/ Am I wrong? At 12:21 PM 5/29/2002 -0600, Peter Scott wrote: >Well, there is this: > >http://www.librarysupportstaff.com/marketinglibs.html > >On Wed, 29 May 2002, Blake Carver wrote: > > >I am willing and able, are we sure there is nothing out there already? > > > >At 08:58 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, Robin Boulton wrote: > >>Many a true word spoken in jest... there has been discussion within this > >>thread of using professional marketing services to promote the value of > >>libraries,and I think there are many examples of why it might be a good > >>idea. I for one would be very interested in subscribing to such a list as > >>marketing4lib. Is someone willing and able to start one? ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From stefaan.renard at vub.ac.be Wed May 29 14:44:49 2002 From: stefaan.renard at vub.ac.be (Stefaan Renard) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: metadata and related links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020529203836.00afe280@pop.vub.ac.be> >I thought OpenURL provided links to specific documents. How could it be = >implemented to provide links to "Related Pages"? It can do both. An OpenURL resolver can use the metadata of a bibliographical description to find related documents @ eg WWW indexes like Google and Altavista or licensed databases like Web of Science, Current Contents etc. It is not only a way to get the full text for a specific description, it can also generate queries in (freely) available databases to find related information. It guides the user to related information and is managed by the local library. Regards, Stefaan >Karen R. Harker, MLS >UT Southwestern Medical Library >5323 Harry Hines Blvd. >Dallas, TX 75390-9049 >214-648-1698 >http://www.swmed.edu/library/ > > >>> Stefaan Renard 5/29/02 1:24:10 PM >>> > >I'm looking for examples of library (or educational) websites that are > >utilizing metadata in order to dynamically generate "Related Pages" = >links. > >Any leads? > > >Take a look at the OpenURL initiative: /> > >Regards, >Stefaan > > > > >thanks in advance, > >Dianne Cmor Email: dcmor@mun.ca > >Information Services Librarian Voice: (709) 737-7427 > >Queen Elizabeth II Library Fax: (709) 737-2153 > >Memorial University of Newfoundland > >St. John's, Newfoundland A1B 3Y1 > >Stefaan Renard >Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB) >Universiteitsbibliotheek >URL: >Vlink demo: >Pleinlaan 2, B-1050 Brussel (Belgium) >Gebouw B, 2de verdieping, lokaal 2 B 114 >tel (direct) : +32- (0)2-629.37.04 >tel (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.09 >fax (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.93 >e-mail : > > >********************************************************************* >Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, >this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there >to a plain text message. >********************************************************************* > > > >********************************************************************* >Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, >this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there >to a plain text message. >********************************************************************* Stefaan Renard Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB) Universiteitsbibliotheek URL: Vlink demo: Pleinlaan 2, B-1050 Brussel (Belgium) Gebouw B, 2de verdieping, lokaal 2 B 114 tel (direct) : +32- (0)2-629.37.04 tel (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.09 fax (secretariaat) : +32- (0)2-629.26.93 e-mail : ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Wed May 29 14:52:09 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Analyzing OPAC logs Message-ID: The only thing we use IP addresses for is to determine if the user was on or off campus. We do this by maintaining a table of campus IP address ranges, parsing the user's IP address and then comparing it with the ranges in our table. I guess you could use the IP addresses to determine the general domain of the users, but it would be very time-consuming and I don't think worth the effort. I don't think there is any logical structure of the IP addresses that would reveal any other attributes of the user. It could also violate users' privacy, which is why we no longer store IP addresses in our logs of the "Search the Library" and other Web-based systems. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Fernando G?mez 5/29/02 1:40:51 PM >>> Hello! I am planning to start a detailed analysis of our logs, which have been accumulating for more than six months since we launched a new Web PAC. The purpose of this mail is to ask for some ideas about this task: guidelines, pointers to interesting or innovative works in this area, or whatever you would like to share. I thought it could be inspiring to know how others are processing their own data (and if that processing leads to some kind of improvement). Our system has been designed in-house (using Bireme's WWWISIS technology), so we have great freedom to decide what information to save in the logs. Up to now, we are logging: * date & time * IP number (REMOTE_ADDR) * query * database (i.e. books, videos, periodicals, etc.) * type of search (author, title, etc.) * no. of hits * no. of page solicited (we show 10 records per page) * source of the query (an expression typed in the search form, a link appearing in a previously displayed result, etc.) This seems enough to harvest a great deal of useful information regarding user behavior, failed searches, shortcomings in the system, ... A concrete point that puzzles me a bit (not exactly library-related): what concrete information can you extract form the list of IP numbers (the REMOTE_ADDR variable)? Does the count of different IP numbers mean anything? Is there any geographical information you can extract from them? Well, thanks in advance for all your help. :) Fernando G?mez Bah?a Blanca, Argentina ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From rsinger at linc.lib.il.us Wed May 29 15:37:09 2002 From: rsinger at linc.lib.il.us (rsinger@linc.lib.il.us) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Marketing4Lib Message-ID: <410-22002532919379360@linc.lib.il.us> What about ALA's prtalk? http://www.ala.org/pio/piofactsheet.html (scroll down...) >>I am willing and able, are we sure there is nothing out there >already? >> >>At 08:58 AM 5/29/2002 -0700, Robin Boulton wrote: >>>Many a true word spoken in jest... there has been discussion within >this >>>thread of using professional marketing services to promote the >value of >>>libraries,and I think there are many examples of why it might be a >good >>>idea. I for one would be very interested in subscribing to such a >list as >>>marketing4lib. Is someone willing and able to start one? --- Rachel Singer Gordon / rsinger@linc.lib.il.us http://www.franklinparklibrary.org http://www.lisjobs.com --- From Margaret.Gaffney at vuw.ac.nz Wed May 29 17:35:31 2002 From: Margaret.Gaffney at vuw.ac.nz (Margaret Gaffney) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Analyzing OPAC logs In-Reply-To: <016f01c2073f$f906c620$88bad2aa@uns.edu.ar> Message-ID: <000201c20758$c26153b0$2c2ec382@libr.vuw.ac.nz> > I am planning to start a detailed analysis of our logs, which > have been accumulating for more than six months since we > launched a new Web PAC. ... > A concrete point that puzzles me a bit (not exactly > library-related): what concrete information can you extract > form the list of IP numbers (the REMOTE_ADDR variable)? Does > the count of different IP numbers mean anything? Is there any > geographical information you can extract from them? If you have reverse DNS lookups enabled, you can extract a fair amount of information, including a general idea of where your users are coming from (country, organisation). Take a look at some log analyser sample reports to see the kinds of things you can find out. A basic example is here: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/webstats/stats.html#dom cheers -- Margaret Gaffney, Web Administrator Victoria University of Wellington Library New Zealand tel: +64 4 463 5481 From scp_sulli at sals.edu Wed May 29 18:27:46 2002 From: scp_sulli at sals.edu (Robert Sullivan) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: Analyzing OPAC logs Message-ID: <020529182746.58ab5@sals.edu> >If you have reverse DNS lookups enabled, you can extract a fair amount >of information, including a general idea of where your users are coming >from (country, organisation). I've done some of this with the page which leads to our database subscriptions. It is handy to be able to say, for example, you are serving this or that school district or that a large local corporation is a frequent user of your services the next time you go for funding. Bob Sullivan scp_sulli@sals.edu Schenectady County Public Library (NY) http://www.scpl.org From ECantona at plcmc.org Fri May 31 07:31:32 2002 From: ECantona at plcmc.org (Cantona, Eric) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a public computer. Anyone else? EC -----Original Message----- From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe /fbi_reorganizing_40 Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) -Andrew -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dmesser at yvrls.lib.wa.us Fri May 31 09:34:40 2002 From: dmesser at yvrls.lib.wa.us (Daniel Messer) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: "Cantona, Eric" said: > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > public computer. > > Anyone else? > EC I have no knowledge of any such case. But then again, it's more than obvious to me that the justice system still thinks computers are magical boxes and the Internet is even more inexplicable. Like Arthur C. Clarke has said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, I would have to agree with a lack of privacy on public machines. I could see many judges ruling that public machines could legally have lower privacy standards than private machines. This may sound stupid, but remember, these are the same judges that find defendents not guilty for using cameras to look up women's skirts because, after all, the woman is in a public place and thus supposedly gives up some of her privacy. (True story.) That aside, what of the library's own machines running things like OPAC and the automation system? While these machines are funded with public tax dollars, are they still public machines? Or are they different and should someone have a reasonable expectation of privacy on such machines? Finally, what exactly constitutes a public computer and the expectation of privacy one can have while using it? Okay, a public internet terminal may not have privacy considerations, but where does one draw the line? I can make a pretty good case that an ATM is a public computer which is no more task specific than an Internet kiosk. Should one have a reasonable expectation of privacy at an ATM? Then why not a library net station? Just some thoughts for a Friday morning. Dan -- Mondai wa The subject in question... ------------- Daniel Messer Assistant Circulation Manager Yakima Valley Regional Library dmesser@yvrl.org 509-452-8541 ext 761 102 N 3rd St Yakima, WA 98901 ----------- When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Hunter S. Thompson Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect. -Benny Hill From andrew_pace at ncsu.edu Fri May 31 09:41:33 2002 From: andrew_pace at ncsu.edu (Andrew K. Pace) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries References: Message-ID: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> ALA Code of Ethics III. We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, borrowed, acquired or transmitted. I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession holds me to. *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do in a library. We should know this in our sleep, Andrew "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > public computer. > > Anyone else? > EC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > -Andrew > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From raywood at magma.ca Fri May 31 09:52:34 2002 From: raywood at magma.ca (Raymond Wood) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> References: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <20020531135234.GB7583@magma.ca> Hear, hear... Cheers, Raymond On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:47:44AM -0700, Andrew K. Pace remarked: > ALA Code of Ethics > III. > We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with > respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, > borrowed, acquired or transmitted. > > I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession > holds me to. > *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do > in a library. > We should know this in our sleep, > Andrew > > "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > > > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > > public computer. > > > > Anyone else? > > EC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe > > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready > > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and > > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web > > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see > > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." > > > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for > > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > > > -Andrew > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -- Raymond Wood XIST Information Services & Technology Inc. Ottawa, Ontario phone: (613)234-9621 X230 fax: (613)234-9564 http://xist.com raymond.wood@xist.com 1-888-ASK-XIST From plum at ulink.net Fri May 31 09:58:07 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: on 5/31/02 8:50 AM, Andrew K. Pace at andrew_pace@ncsu.edu wrote: > ALA Code of Ethics > III. > We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with > respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, > borrowed, acquired or transmitted. Of course, this will all be moot if the fibbies get their technological act together sufficiently to hack in without any librarians noticing. It appears they've been given the go-ahead to do so. From euan.morton at xrxgsn.com Fri May 31 09:56:59 2002 From: euan.morton at xrxgsn.com (Euan Morton) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: I may have missed something (being a Web Developer Consultant now and so out of the library world, although I like to keep in touch as I can, this list being one of the ways that I do so) but did ALA challenge the Patriot Act in court when it became law (or at least those provisions of it that apply to libraries) ? Sincerely Euan Morton, CIBER @ Xerox Web Developer, Xerox Global Service Net 8*223-9716/(585)383-9716 / Fax (585)383-7517 http://www.ciber-roch.com/ ICQ: 104325610 - emorton@ciber.com > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org > [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Andrew K. Pace > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:51 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries > > > ALA Code of Ethics > III. > We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with > respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, > borrowed, acquired or transmitted. > > I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my > profession > holds me to. > *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for > *anything* they do > in a library. > We should know this in our sleep, > Andrew > > "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > > > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > > public computer. > > > > Anyone else? > > EC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_g o_ca_st_pe > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > -Andrew > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dbarclay at library.tmc.edu Fri May 31 10:06:26 2002 From: dbarclay at library.tmc.edu (Donald Barclay) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: The good news is that the FBI is so inept, their spying will be meaningless. If an FBI snoop discovers that someone named Osama bin Laden has checked out <> from the Los Alamos Public Library, chances are his superiors will simply pigeonhole the memo and go to lunch. Thinking wishfully on a Friday. Donald A. Barclay Assistant Director for Systems and Informatics Houston Academy of Medicine-- Texas Medical Center Library dbarclay@library.tmc.edu 713.799.7120 always the beautiful answer who asks a more beautiful question --e.e. cummings -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Andrew K. Pace Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:51 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries ALA Code of Ethics III. We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, borrowed, acquired or transmitted. I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession holds me to. *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do in a library. We should know this in our sleep, Andrew "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > public computer. > > Anyone else? > EC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > -Andrew > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From gprice at gwu.edu Fri May 31 09:58:11 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: Decision Handed Down: "Judges Toss Out Online Porn Law" (Multnomah PL v USA) Message-ID: <3CF7A4D8@webmailbackup> Just off the wire: "Judges Toss Out Online Porn Law" MULTNOMAH COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY v. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AP story at: http://library.northernlight.com/EB20020531490000023.html >From the story, "Public libraries cannot be forced to use Internet filters designed to block pornography, three federal judges said Friday in overturning a new federal law. In a 195-page decision, the judges said the Children's Internet Protection Act went too far because the filters can also blocked access to sites that contain protected speech." See Also: Read the Full-Text of The Court Decision http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/02D0415P.HTM See Also: ALA Page With Additional Details and Resources http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/02D0415P.HTM cheers, gary Looking for News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.feepint.com ---------------------- Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gprice@gwu.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Fri May 31 10:04:57 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020531095343.023d7858@ohiolink.edu> > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > public computer. A number of libraries now provide access to services from locations other than their own workstations. :-\ If I'm at home alone, idly exploring topics of interest (say, falafel recipes, U.S. cultural/economic imperialism, and avionics), I would very likely expect my research to be private. I am not a lawyer, so I don't know if that translates into a legal expectation of privacy. I am, however, a library webmaster, so I've been thinking long and hard about what we log, and why, and how long we keep which log files. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From jkuntz at ansernet.rcls.org Fri May 31 10:08:12 2002 From: jkuntz at ansernet.rcls.org (Jerry Kuntz) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: <200205311008.AA1864368426@ansernet.rcls.org> I'm wondering if this will change any library procedures about keeping archives of their web server logs, backup tapes of their circ systems, etc....if the archiving is limited would that discourage the FBI? ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Raymond Wood Reply-To: raywood@magma.ca Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) >Hear, hear... > >Cheers, >Raymond > >On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:47:44AM -0700, Andrew K. Pace remarked: >> ALA Code of Ethics >> III. >> We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with >> respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, >> borrowed, acquired or transmitted. >> >> I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession >> holds me to. >> *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do >> in a library. >> We should know this in our sleep, >> Andrew >> >> "Cantona, Eric" wrote: >> >> > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has >> > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a >> > public computer. >> > >> > Anyone else? >> > EC >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] >> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM >> > To: Multiple recipients of list >> > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries >> > >> > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe >> > /fbi_reorganizing_40 >> > >> > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready >> > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and >> > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web >> > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see >> > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." >> > >> > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for >> > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) >> > >> > -Andrew >> > >> > -- >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. >> > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries >> > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC >> > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 >> > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -- >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. >> Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries >> North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC >> andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 >> http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> > >-- >Raymond Wood XIST Information Services & Technology Inc. >Ottawa, Ontario phone: (613)234-9621 X230 fax: (613)234-9564 >http://xist.com raymond.wood@xist.com 1-888-ASK-XIST > > -- Jerry Kuntz Electronic Resources Consultant Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@rcls.org -- From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Fri May 31 09:55:28 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew I. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think libraries need to think about their role in defining the expectation of privacy on public computers. We have privacy laws that cover patron records mainly because libraries and privacy advocates pushed for them and vociferously fight attempts to water them down. If we take the lead in: 1) Pushing to extend these laws to cover public computer use 2) Creating the expectation of privacy by stating in policy and in action that individual use will not be monitored. If the library has a public policy that it will treat public computer use like it treats the checking out of print and related materials, that creates a whole new situation for the judges to consider. Now, there will be some who will argue that it's not good policy to create such an expectation. I can also see many issues that need to be discussed in relation to this. But libraries need to take the lead in moving this debate forward. If we don't, the politicians are going to decide for us. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI On Fri, 31 May 2002, Daniel Messer wrote: > "Cantona, Eric" said: > > > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has > > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a > > public computer. > > > > Anyone else? > > EC > > I have no knowledge of any such case. But then again, it's more than obvious to me that the justice system still thinks computers are magical boxes and the Internet is even more inexplicable. Like Arthur C. Clarke has said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." > > However, I would have to agree with a lack of privacy on public machines. I could see many judges ruling that public machines could legally have lower privacy standards than private machines. This may sound stupid, but remember, these are the same judges that find defendents not guilty for using cameras to look up women's skirts because, after all, the woman is in a public place and thus supposedly gives up some of her privacy. (True story.) > > That aside, what of the library's own machines running things like OPAC and the automation system? While these machines are funded with public tax dollars, are they still public machines? Or are they different and should someone have a reasonable expectation of privacy on such machines? > > Finally, what exactly constitutes a public computer and the expectation of privacy one can have while using it? Okay, a public internet terminal may not have privacy considerations, but where does one draw the line? I can make a pretty good case that an ATM is a public computer which is no more task specific than an Internet kiosk. Should one have a reasonable expectation of privacy at an ATM? Then why not a library net station? > > Just some thoughts for a Friday morning. > > Dan > > -- > Mondai wa > The subject in question... > ------------- > Daniel Messer > Assistant Circulation Manager > Yakima Valley Regional Library > dmesser@yvrl.org > 509-452-8541 ext 761 > 102 N 3rd St Yakima, WA 98901 > ----------- > When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. > -Hunter S. Thompson > Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect. > -Benny Hill > > > From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Fri May 31 09:28:45 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew I. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [YALSA-L:3548] CIPA Decided! (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:28:18 -0500 From: Don Wood To: Young Adult Library Services Association List Subject: [YALSA-L:3548] CIPA Decided! CIPA Decided! Concluding that "we are constrained to conclude that the library plaintiffs must prevail in their contention that CIPA requires them to violate the First Amendment rights of their patrons, and accordingly is facially invalid," the three-judge panel sitting in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania ruled Sections 1712(a)(2) and 1721(b) of the Children's Internet Protection Act to be facially invalid under the First Amendment and permanently enjoined the government from enforcing those provisions. See http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/02D0415P.HTM or http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/02D0415P.ZIP or http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/us03011.shtml __________________________ Don Wood Program Officer/Communications American Library Association Office for Intellectual Freedom 50 East Huron Street Chicago, IL 60611 1-800-545-2433, ext. 4225 Fax: 312-280-4227 dwood@ala.org http://www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/ http://www.ala.org/cipa/cipalegalfund.html intellectual freedom @ your library Free People Read Freely? "Intellectual Freedom is the right of every individual to both seek and receive information from all points of view without restriction. It provides for free access to all expressions of ideas through which any and all sides of a question, cause or movement may be explored. Intellectual freedom encompasses the freedom to hold, receive and disseminate ideas."--Intellectual Freedom and Censorship Q & A http://www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/intellectualfreedomandcensorship.html From mbfaccioli at yahoo.com Fri May 31 10:09:54 2002 From: mbfaccioli at yahoo.com (Mary Beth Faccioli) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:09 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <20020531140954.92115.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, your profession does not hold you to breaking the law. In the wake of 9/11 ALA came out encouraging libraries to know their local laws regarding these issues so we could all comply appropriately. If only the issue was as black and white as it sounds in this thread... (I feel like this is libref suddenly) Mary Beth Faccioli Georgia State University Pullen Library --- "Andrew K. Pace" wrote: > ALA Code of Ethics > III. > We protect each library user's right to privacy and > confidentiality with > respect to information sought or received and > resources consulted, > borrowed, acquired or transmitted. > > I don't care much about what any court has said. > This is what my profession > holds me to. > *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of > privacy for *anything* they do > in a library. > We should know this in our sleep, > Andrew > > "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > > > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme > Court (or lower) has > > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of > privacy in the use of a > > public computer. > > > > Anyone else? > > EC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe > > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC > logs. Is everyone ready > > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get > the web logs, proxy, and > > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a > patron field or web > > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's > always refreshing to see > > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic > restrictions." > > > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken > my ethical concern for > > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > > > -Andrew > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From gduimovi at NRCan.gc.ca Fri May 31 10:23:31 2002 From: gduimovi at NRCan.gc.ca (Duimovich, George) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: <3E3C279AF3F9D411BAA00002A529150E024C9B86@S0-OTT-X10> Related story, reviewing a time no so long ago in the F B I ' s history (notice the spaces, cleverly used to avoid Carnivore's detection -- lest I be put on the big bad list) [yeah, right.. :)] http://info.greenwood.com/books/0313267/0313267154.html Surveillance in the Stacks The FBI's Library Awareness Program By Herbert N. Foerstel Political Science, Contributions in, No. 266 (ISSN: 0147-1066) Greenwood Press. Westport, Conn. 1991. 184 pages LC 90-38419. ISBN 0-313-26715-4. FFG/ $59.95 Available (Status Information Updated 5/16/2002) Does anyone really believe that programs such as the "Library Awareness Program" were completely shut down in all forms?? Can the watchdogs be trusted not to politicize their searches? -----Original Message----- From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe /fbi_reorganizing_40 Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) -Andrew -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From andrew_pace at ncsu.edu Fri May 31 10:31:52 2002 From: andrew_pace at ncsu.edu (Andrew K. Pace) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries References: <20020531140954.92115.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CF78958.BD349C0@ncsu.edu> Mary Beth, Read Thomas Dowling's message that followed yours. This is not libref. Calling ourselves IT, techies, non-librarian library staff, or "just a webmaster" does not grant us immunity from these issues. I hope Roy and the list agree that these issues are related enough to merit discussion on this list. Like any thread, it will run its course, but as an IT Librarian, I can tell you that this means a lot more to me than the latest Netscape display problem. The people on this list are the people keeping the servers, the logs, and the records that law enforcement are going to be interested in. We're talking about a lot more than patron records here. I might not have a local law that requires me to keep web logs, so if doing so might somehow violate the privacy of my users, then why should I keep them? Now, simply knowing my local law might not be enough. The PATRIOT Act and the new powers extended to the FBI supersede those laws. * A patron wants to know that their study in a library is private * A patron wants to know that the library is not looking (or allowing someone to look) over his shoulder. * When a patron wants to look at the map that shows where the local water supply is, there is only one answer a librarian can give: "It's over here, let me show you." * A patron needs to know that even Library IT is still "the library." * A patron deserves to know when technology used in the library might affect their expectations of any of the above. That's pretty black and white to me, Andrew Mary Beth Faccioli wrote: > Actually, your profession does not hold you to > breaking the law. In the wake of 9/11 ALA came out > encouraging libraries to know their local laws > regarding these issues so we could all comply > appropriately. If only the issue was as black and > white as it sounds in this thread... (I feel like > this is libref suddenly) > > Mary Beth Faccioli > Georgia State University Pullen Library > > --- "Andrew K. Pace" wrote: > > ALA Code of Ethics > > III. > > We protect each library user's right to privacy and > > confidentiality with > > respect to information sought or received and > > resources consulted, > > borrowed, acquired or transmitted. > > > > I don't care much about what any court has said. > > This is what my profession > > holds me to. > > *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of > > privacy for *anything* they do > > in a library. > > We should know this in our sleep, > > Andrew > > > > "Cantona, Eric" wrote: > > > > > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme > > Court (or lower) has > > > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of > > privacy in the use of a > > > public computer. > > > > > > Anyone else? > > > EC > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] > > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries > > > > > > > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe > > > /fbi_reorganizing_40 > > > > > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC > > logs. Is everyone ready > > > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get > > the web logs, proxy, and > > > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a > > patron field or web > > > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's > > always refreshing to see > > > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic > > restrictions." > > > > > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken > > my ethical concern for > > > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > > > > > -Andrew > > > > > > -- > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > > > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > > > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > > > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > > > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. > > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries > > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC > > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 > > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sievingp at ors.od.nih.gov Fri May 31 10:32:04 2002 From: sievingp at ors.od.nih.gov (Sieving, Pamela (OD/ORS)) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: ALA Program on common user interface issues Message-ID: **************************************************************** Please excuse cross-posting and please mark your calendar: RUSA Machine-Assisted Reference Section presents: Bringing Resources Together: The Digital Library Meets Google! Sunday, June 16 10:30 am - Noon Georgia World Congress Center (GWCC) Room A411 The multitude of databases, Web sites, and other information tools at people's fingertips is generating interest in super-discovery tools such as MetaLib, ENCompass, and WebFeat, which can search across and act as gateways to multiple databases. * How well do they interpret the mix of results? * Do they simplify the research environment? * How well do users succeed with them? * What kind of visual clues and cues can be built in to help users? Program speakers explore the possibilities and pitfalls of these new systems: Keynote: "The Search for the Holy Grail: Why One-Stop Searching is Both Essential and Hopeless" Roy Tennant (California Digital Library) "Enhancing Resource Discovery and Access: MetaLib and SFX at the Boston College Libraries" Bob Gerrity and Theresa Lyman (Boston College Libraries) "Cool Web Tool: One Interface, Many Databases" Jennifer Lucas, Jed Moffitt and Meg Rheingold, (King County Public Library) From DobbsA at apsu.edu Fri May 31 10:26:42 2002 From: DobbsA at apsu.edu (Dobbs, Aaron) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: <8C1D549B4324D51181010090277A49DE91EF31@exchange.apsu.edu> We all can see how a records retention policy faithfully followed, if you believe the Executive called by the defense, by Arthur Andersen is burning them in court. We'll see if they survive on that argument. True, deleting our web logs isn't of the same scope as the Enron debacle. However, the question isn't of magnitude but of intent; the bulk deletion of existing logs to prevent properly executed law enforcement action is obstruction of justice in most jurisdictions. I suspect existing policies, regularly followed, calling for deletion of outdated logs will find more understanding than hastily (or deliberately) created or modified policies that seem to be expressly for deleting potentially harmful "evidence". ALA's Patron Bill of Rights is a professional/ethical/moral statement not a legal one. Sure some state laws exist for protection of that kind of data but in this new red scare zeitgeist who do you think will get the bad press: the FBI chasing down suspected terrorists or those nasty librarians trying to protect the perpetrators? -Aaron :-)' -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Kuntz [mailto:jkuntz@ansernet.rcls.org] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries I'm wondering if this will change any library procedures about keeping archives of their web server logs, backup tapes of their circ systems, etc....if the archiving is limited would that discourage the FBI? ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Raymond Wood Reply-To: raywood@magma.ca Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) >Hear, hear... > >Cheers, >Raymond > >On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:47:44AM -0700, Andrew K. Pace remarked: >> ALA Code of Ethics >> III. >> We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with >> respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, >> borrowed, acquired or transmitted. >> >> I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession >> holds me to. >> *Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do >> in a library. >> We should know this in our sleep, >> Andrew >> >> "Cantona, Eric" wrote: >> >> > I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has >> > ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a >> > public computer. >> > >> > Anyone else? >> > EC >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Andrew K. Pace [mailto:andrew_pace@ncsu.edu] >> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:27 PM >> > To: Multiple recipients of list >> > Subject: [WEB4LIB] FBI to monitor libraries >> > >> > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe >> > /fbi_reorganizing_40 >> > >> > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is everyone ready >> > to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get the web logs, proxy, and >> > patron records out while we're at it. Is there a patron field or web >> > server log delineation for "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see >> > professional ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." >> > >> > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical concern for >> > sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) >> > >> > -Andrew >> > >> > -- >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. >> > Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries >> > North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC >> > andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 >> > http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -- >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Andrew K. Pace, M.S.L.S. >> Head, Systems ~ NCSU Libraries >> North Carolina State University ~ Raleigh, NC >> andrew_pace@ncsu.edu ~ 919-515-3087 >> http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/pace/ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> > >-- >Raymond Wood XIST Information Services & Technology Inc. >Ottawa, Ontario phone: (613)234-9621 X230 fax: (613)234-9564 >http://xist.com raymond.wood@xist.com 1-888-ASK-XIST > > -- Jerry Kuntz Electronic Resources Consultant Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@rcls.org -- From suekamm at mindspring.com Fri May 31 10:47:01 2002 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries References: <3E3C279AF3F9D411BAA00002A529150E024C9B86@S0-OTT-X10> Message-ID: <3CF78CE5.1094DB8E@mindspring.com> "Duimovich, George" wrote: > > Related story, reviewing a time no so long ago in the F B I ' s history > (notice the spaces, cleverly used to avoid Carnivore's detection -- lest I > be put on the big bad list) [yeah, right.. :)] > > http://info.greenwood.com/books/0313267/0313267154.html > > Surveillance in the Stacks > The FBI's Library Awareness Program > By Herbert N. Foerstel > Political Science, Contributions in, No. 266 (ISSN: 0147-1066) > Greenwood Press. Westport, Conn. 1991. 184 pages > LC 90-38419. ISBN 0-313-26715-4. FFG/ $59.95 > Available (Status Information Updated 5/16/2002) > > Does anyone really believe that programs such as the "Library Awareness > Program" were completely shut down in all forms?? Can the watchdogs be > trusted not to politicize their searches? > Some librarians have been eager to assist law enforcement by providing information on people's borrowing or Internet search activities that they haven't waited for appropriate legal steps (such as issuing a subpena, which -- at least in California and probably the same procedure in other states -- anyone can do by filling out a form). The ALA Intellectual Freedom Committee has been developing an interpretation of the Library Bill of Rights four at least two years, and I believe it will come to Council (ALA's governing body) at the conference in Atlanta later this month. I see no more reason for libraries to maintain logs or sign-up sheets. Most of us keep such records only for housekeeping reasons (e.g., to insure that people aren't hogging the workstations), and, once we obtain satistical data (how many people use the workstations, for example) we usually destroy the sheets. -- Your friendly CyberGoddess and ALA Councilor-at-Large, Sue Kamm Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 email: suekamm@mindspring.com Visit my web page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm "Fernando Valenzuela has pitched a no-hitter. . . . If you have a sombrero, throw it to the sky." -- Vin Scully, June 29, 1990 From cayz at lib.de.us Fri May 31 10:46:09 2002 From: cayz at lib.de.us (James Cayz) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3CF77D8D.63A14799@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 May 2002, Andrew K. Pace wrote: >ALA Code of Ethics >III. >We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with >respect to information sought or received and resources consulted, >borrowed, acquired or transmitted. > >I don't care much about what any court has said. This is what my profession >holds me to. >*Anyone* should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for *anything* they do >in a library. >We should know this in our sleep, >Andrew All, I don't know if this is contradictory or not: (from http://www.ala.org/pio/crisis/qa.html ) " Libraries should have in place procedures for working with law enforcement officers when a subpoena or other legal order for records is made. Libraries will cooperate expeditiously with law enforcement within the framework of state law. " To their credit, the FBI (or at least Delaware's Field Office), understands our position very well. It is within the realm of several federal agencies to come in with a Search Warrent, and seize equipment. However, they realize we are one of few "public outlets" for the public to give and get information about the government, and they don't want to jeapordize that by doing things that would effectively shut us down. Unfortunately, I've had a post-9/11 investigation. I handled it the same way as I had pre-9/11, stating the state FOIA and librarian privacy concerns, and the FBI agent had *no*problem* with having to get the appropriate Court Order. As a matter of fact, she suggested it even before I said I would *need* one, and actually volunteered to drive it down to me (50 miles) - I graciously accepted a fax, since it was well after standard quitting time. However, and this is a BIG however, it was clear to me that if I wasn't able or decided not to comply, that the Search Order would follow. I wasn't sure that a certain type of database query could be done; she said that if I couldn't get it in a reasonable time, she was sure the FBI computer guys *could*. I figured I better try harder, and grabbed a 2 liter bottle of Coke.... And when the Court Order lands in the fax tray within 5 minutes of getting off the phone with the agent, I was sure that a Search Order wouldn't take much longer if I didn't at least try. So, as many people have discovered when dealing with the local patrol officer, when the FBI or Secret Service come calling, be nice, courteous, tell them your concerns and your needs, and everyone goes home happy. >> I don't know of a single case in which the Supreme Court (or lower) has >> ruled that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the use of a >> public computer. Delaware Law has been interpreted to indeed protect library computer use. The law (Title 29, Chap 100, Section 10002) excludes the following from being a public record: "(12) Any records of a public library which contain the identity of the user and the books, documents, films, recordings or other property of the library that the patron has used." Certainly, the public computers are the property of the library. The record of their use does include the identity of the user and the use of that property. Therefore computer sign-in sheets, on-line authentication, and any history logs that might exist on a specific machine ARE private records of the library, and a Court Order must be obtained to get them. So, although a Court has never challenged our policy or the law, it *is* a law, and so far, no challenges to the law have been made. I guess if you have a need to get the information, getting a Court Order isn't all that hard. We *do* live in interesting times. James +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James Cayz Telecommunications / Network Technologist I | | Email:cayz@lib.de.us Voice:302-739-4748 x130 Fax:302-739-6787 | | Delaware Division of Libraries # 43 S. DuPont Hwy / Dover, DE 19901-7430 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From sethf at sethf.com Fri May 31 11:11:15 2002 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: Fwd: IT: CIPA struck down! (and Seth Finkelstein's reports!) Message-ID: <20020531111115.H29843@sethf.com> Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:41:18 -0400 From: Seth Finkelstein To: Seth Finkelstein's InfoThought list Subject: IT: Federal censorware law down! (and Seth Finkelstein's reports!) The "CIPA" law, which involved linking Federal library funding to censorware for everyone, has been struck down by a Federal court. A news report is at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/759858.asp?cp1=1 The text of the decision is available at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/us03011.shtml I'm ecstatic that the court seems to have used my anticensorware work as one factor in its decision, in passages such as these: "Another technique that filtering companies use in order to deal with a structural feature of the Internet is blocking the root level URLs of so-called "loophole" Web sites. These are Web sites that provide access to a particular Web page, but display in the user's browser a URL that is different from the URL with which the particular page is usually associated. Because of this feature, they provide a "loophole" that can be used to get around filtering software, i.e., they display a URL that is different from the one that appears on the filtering company's control list. "Loophole" Web sites include caches of Web pages that have been removed from their original location, "anonymizer" sites, and translation sites. Caches are archived copies that some search engines, such as Google, keep of the Web pages they index. The cached copy stored by Google will have a URL that is different from the original URL. Because Web sites often change rapidly, caches are the only way to access pages that have been taken down, revised, or have changed their URLs for some reason. For example, a magazine might place its current stories under a given URL, and replace them monthly with new stories. If a user wanted to find an article published six months ago, he or she would be unable to access it if not for Google's cached version. Some sites on the Web serve as a proxy or intermediary between a user and another Web page. When using a proxy server, a user does not access the page from its original URL, but rather from the URL of the proxy server. One type of proxy service is an "anonymizer." Users may access Web sites indirectly via an anonymizer when they do not want the Web site they are visiting to be able to determine the IP address from which they are accessing the site, or to leave "cookies" on their browser.(8) Some proxy servers can be used to attempt to translate Web page content from one language to another. Rather than directly accessing the original Web page in its original language, users can instead indirectly access the page via a proxy server offering translation features. As noted above, filtering companies often block loophole sites, such as caches, anonymizers, and translation sites. The practice of blocking loophole sites necessarily results in a significant amount of overblocking, because the vast majority of the pages that are cached, for example, do not contain content that would match a filtering company's category definitions. Filters that do not block these loophole sites, however, may enable users to access any URL on the Web via the loophole site, thus resulting in substantial underblocking." This is an aspect which I've been trying to get into the censorware debate for ages. I'm overjoyed that the court heard, they got it, they listened, and it helped strike down Federal censorware law! These are the reports which seem to have made a difference in the above: BESS's Secret LOOPHOLE: (censorware vs. privacy & anonymity) - a secret category of BESS (N2H2), and more about why censorware must blacklist privacy, anonymity, and translators http://sethf.com/anticensorware/bess/loophole.php BESS vs The Google Search Engine (Cache, Groups, Images) - BESS bans cached web pages, passes porn in groups, and considers all image searching to be pornography. http://sethf.com/anticensorware/bess/google.php SmartFilter's Greatest Evils - why censorware must blacklist privacy, anonymity, and language translators http://sethf.com/anticensorware/smartfilter/greatestevils.php The Pre-Slipped Slope - censorware vs the Wayback Machine web archive - The logic of censorware programs suppressing an enormous digital library. http://sethf.com/anticensorware/general/slip.php -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com Anticensorware Investigations: http://sethf.com/anticensorware/ Seth Finkelstein's Infothought list - http://sethf.com/infothought/ http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From Howard_Pasternack at brown.edu Fri May 31 11:22:31 2002 From: Howard_Pasternack at brown.edu (Howard Pasternack) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries In-Reply-To: <3E3C279AF3F9D411BAA00002A529150E024C9B86@S0-OTT-X10> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020531112112.00e13148@postoffice.brown.edu> At 07:28 AM 5/31/2002 -0700, Duimovich, George wrote: >Related story, reviewing a time no so long ago in the F B I ' s history >(notice the spaces, cleverly used to avoid Carnivore's detection -- lest I >be put on the big bad list) [yeah, right.. :)] You live in another country, one I might add which values order over liberty and does not provide the federal protections of the United States. So why are you carrying on about the FBI. From thomas at anaheim.lib.ca.us Fri May 31 11:47:09 2002 From: thomas at anaheim.lib.ca.us (Tom Edelblute) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FBI to monitor libraries References: <004501c20858$58a444e0$ac0aced1@shapeshi> Message-ID: <3CF79AFD.D1BB5B7B@anaheim.lib.ca.us> Academic purposes? What about the public library where over half of our users come in just to use Hotmail? Then there are those who are making travel plans, remodeling their houses, learning how to care for their pets, trying to figure out what car to buy, and the list goes on and on. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tom Edelblute Public Access Systems Coordinator Anaheim Public Library phone: (714) 765-1759 500 West Broadway fax: (714) 765-1730 Anaheim CA 92805 e-mail: thomas@anaheim.lib.ca.us Nancy Sosna Bohm wrote: > > Since I heard Ashcroft at lunch today, I can't stop imagining a Seinfeldian > routine of a fibbie interacting in a chat room. LOL > And what would be the response if a Librarian tapped him/her on the shoulder > and pointed to the sign that states computers are for academic purposes? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen Harker" > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:47 PM > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: FBI to monitor libraries > > > I think many of us have been nervous of our government's actions since = > > Sept. 12th (and some of us even before that ;). > > > > > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > > UT Southwestern Medical Library > > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > > 214-648-1698 > > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ > > > > >>> Raymond Wood 5/30/02 4:58:36 PM >>> > > On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 12:26:47PM -0700, Andrew K. Pace remarked: > > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/ap/20020530/ap_on_go_c= > > a_st_pe/fbi_reorganizing_40 > > >=20 > > > Interesting that we have been on a thread of OPAC logs. Is > > > everyone ready to turn those logs over to the FBI? Better get > > > the web logs, proxy, and patron records out while we're at it. > > > Is there a patron field or web server log delineation for > > > "foreigner?" It's always refreshing to see professional > > > ethics described as "bureaucratic restrictions." > > >=20 > > > That was sarcasm, just in case anyone has mistaken my ethical > > > concern for sympathy with Mr. Ashcroft's new plans ;) > > >=20 > > > -Andrew > > > > Once again, the pendulum swings, and the empire strikes > > back. I wonder how long before we can say hello to the 'new > > McCarthyism' :-/ > > > > Does anyone else get nervous about the 'terrorism' of a > > surveillance society ? > > > > My $0.02, > > Raymond > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > > Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, > > this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there > > to a plain text message. > > ********************************************************************* > > From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Fri May 31 12:02:22 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: CIPA Decision References: <20020531111115.H29843@sethf.com> Message-ID: <3CF79E8E.C9B00E06@tln.lib.mi.us> If you get the chance, I highly encourage people to read the CIPA decision. First, it's refreshing to read a decision where the Judges (or their clerks!) "get" the technology. Internet filtering involves a wide range of often complex technical issues and the decision explores and explains them all. After you read the decision, you'll be an expert on Internet filtering technology. From a library's perspective, it was also nice to see that the Judges understood the role of libraries in our communities and the work that librarians do. Second, the decision makes quite clear a concept that we all understand but the lawmakers never seem to get: Technology is not perfect and it can't solve every problem. Finally, the decision states clearly that the use of filtering technology will always result in the blocking of constitutionally protected speech, even under the limited definition of CIPA (child pornography, obscenity, etc.). This should give some pause to libraries that use or are contemplating the use of Internet filters. I know we've tried to avoid filtering wars here on Web4Lib so I'll leave it at that. But do take the time to read the decision. It's long but only because it is thorough. It will be well worth your time. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI From bernies at uillinois.edu Fri May 31 12:15:57 2002 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: Brief article on OCLC/LC's QuestionPoint in Chronicle of Higher E ducation Message-ID: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CFB2C@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> There's a brief article about QuestionPoint in the "free" section of the online version of the Chronicle of Higher Education, written by Scott Carlson, and titled: "New Service Allows the Public to Pose Reference Questions Without Visiting the Library". http://chronicle.com/free/2002/05/2002053101t.htm Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 338 Henry Administration Building 506 S. Wright Street Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu From schumann at timberland.lib.wa.us Fri May 31 12:25:28 2002 From: schumann at timberland.lib.wa.us (Donna Schumann) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: Adobe Acrobat Reader on Public PCs Message-ID: <3CF7A3F8.1010109@timberland.lib.wa.us> Currently, we let patrons use Adobe Acrobat Reader on public PCs running from within Internet Explorer. In the past year, we have been getting requests from patrons to run it as a stand-alone application so that they can easily open PDF files from diskettes. Do any of you let patrons use Acrobat Reader as an application? How do you lock it down? FYI, we currently use WinSelect to lock down IE and NTFS file permissions and policies to lock down Office. Thanks! Donna -- Donna Schumann, Computer Application Specialist Timberland Regional Library, 415 Airdustrial Way SW, Olympia, WA 98501 Voice: 360-704-4542 FAX: 360-586-6838 Email: schumann@timberland.lib.wa.us From ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov Fri May 31 12:42:00 2002 From: ckawamoto at cdpr.ca.gov (Chizuko Kawamoto) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: Euan Morton" wrote on Fri, 31 May 2002 09:56:59 -0400: I may have missed something (being a Web Developer Consultant now and so out of the library world, although I like to keep in touch as I can, this list being one of the ways that I do so) but did ALA challenge the Patriot Act in court when it became law (or at least those provisions of it that apply to libraries) ? There is a good site for you to visit and bookmark. ALA has posted information regarding this Act at their "Libraries and the Patriot Legislation" site at http://www.ala.org/washoff/patriot.html. "Background on ALA activities regarding the act" answers your question. FLEX YOUR POWER! For simple ways to reduce energy demand and costs, see . Chizuko Kawamoto, Supervising Librarian CA Dept. of Pesticide Regulation Pesticide Registration Branch 1001 I Street P.O. Box 4015 Sacramento, CA 95812-4015 916-324-3556 FAX: 916-324-1719 E-mail: ckawamoto@cdpr.ca.gov From tkenison at wcpl.lib.oh.us Fri May 31 12:52:50 2002 From: tkenison at wcpl.lib.oh.us (Tai Kenison) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Adobe Acrobat Reader on Public PCs Message-ID: See if they can access PDF's on diskettes within IE by entering "A:\filename.pdf" from the browser's address line (without the " " of course) >>> "Donna Schumann" 05/31/02 12:28PM >>> Currently, we let patrons use Adobe Acrobat Reader on public PCs running from within Internet Explorer. In the past year, we have been getting requests from patrons to run it as a stand-alone application so that they can easily open PDF files from diskettes. Do any of you let patrons use Acrobat Reader as an application? How do you lock it down? FYI, we currently use WinSelect to lock down IE and NTFS file permissions and policies to lock down Office. Thanks! Donna -- Donna Schumann, Computer Application Specialist Timberland Regional Library, 415 Airdustrial Way SW, Olympia, WA 98501 Voice: 360-704-4542 FAX: 360-586-6838 Email: schumann@timberland.lib.wa.us From schumann at timberland.lib.wa.us Fri May 31 13:12:44 2002 From: schumann at timberland.lib.wa.us (Donna Schumann) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: Clarification on Adobe Acrobat Reader on Public PCs Question References: <3CF7A3F8.1010109@timberland.lib.wa.us> Message-ID: <3CF7AF0C.8000106@timberland.lib.wa.us> I've gotten several responses asking why we even need to lock down Acrobat Reader, so I am sending this clarification: One of the reasons I'm asking about locking down Acrobat Reader is to find out if it is necessary. Basically, to find out if we are making a mountain out of a molehill. From the responses I've gotten so far, it looks like we may be overly worried. We aren't sure if there are hidden vulnerabilities. At a quick glance, I think we would want some kind of security on the Print dialog box, especially the Network button. There are also features where the patron could enter his/her name and address -- I am guessing that Acrobat will hold onto this information, which could compromise patron confidentiality (even if the breach is self-inflicted). And some Help utilities open backdoors. Of course these are usually in Microsoft products, but after being burned by these loopholes in the past, we are hesitant. Do you give users unrestricted access to Acrobat Reader? Is this a no-brainer? Thanks! Donna Schumann wrote: > Currently, we let patrons use Adobe Acrobat Reader on public PCs running > from within Internet Explorer. In the past year, we have been getting > requests from patrons to run it as a stand-alone application so that > they can easily open PDF files from diskettes. > > Do any of you let patrons use Acrobat Reader as an application? How do > you lock it down? > > FYI, we currently use WinSelect to lock down IE and NTFS file > permissions and policies to lock down Office. > > Thanks! Donna > > > -- Donna Schumann, Computer Application Specialist Timberland Regional Library, 415 Airdustrial Way SW, Olympia, WA 98501 Voice: 360-704-4542 FAX: 360-586-6838 Email: schumann@timberland.lib.wa.us From king at julip.fcgov.com Fri May 31 13:36:24 2002 From: king at julip.fcgov.com (Jacque King) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Clarification on Adobe Acrobat Reader on Public PCs Question In-Reply-To: <3CF7AF0C.8000106@timberland.lib.wa.us> Message-ID: Donna, We lock down a few of Acrobat's features that can access the system: -network button in the print dialog box (just as you suggested) -"print to file" checkbox in the print dialog box -"save" button (so folks can't browse and/or save to the hard drive) -on our PACs, we lock down the button that links to Acrobat's site We also use WinSelect for this. Although other security keeps folks from accessing the hard drive, we disable the buttons simply to keep folks from being presented with tons of error messages or "access denied" messages. Hope this helps, Jacque King Library Technical Support Specialist Fort Collins Public Library 201 Peterson Street Fort Collins, CO 80524 (970) 221-6716 king@julip.fcgov.com On Fri, 31 May 2002, Donna Schumann wrote: > I've gotten several responses asking why we even need to lock down > Acrobat Reader, so I am sending this clarification: > > One of the reasons I'm asking about locking down Acrobat Reader is to > find out if it is necessary. Basically, to find out if we are making a > mountain out of a molehill. From the responses I've gotten so far, it > looks like we may be overly worried. > > We aren't sure if there are hidden vulnerabilities. At a quick glance, I > think we would want some kind of security on the Print dialog box, > especially the Network button. There are also features where the patron > could enter his/her name and address -- I am guessing that Acrobat will > hold onto this information, which could compromise patron > confidentiality (even if the breach is self-inflicted). And some Help > utilities open backdoors. Of course these are usually in Microsoft > products, but after being burned by these loopholes in the past, we are > hesitant. > > Do you give users unrestricted access to Acrobat Reader? Is this a > no-brainer? > > Thanks! > > > Donna Schumann wrote: > > > Currently, we let patrons use Adobe Acrobat Reader on public PCs running > > from within Internet Explorer. In the past year, we have been getting > > requests from patrons to run it as a stand-alone application so that > > they can easily open PDF files from diskettes. > > > > Do any of you let patrons use Acrobat Reader as an application? How do > > you lock it down? > > > > FYI, we currently use WinSelect to lock down IE and NTFS file > > permissions and policies to lock down Office. > > > > Thanks! Donna > > > > > > > > > -- > Donna Schumann, Computer Application Specialist > Timberland Regional Library, 415 Airdustrial Way SW, Olympia, WA 98501 > Voice: 360-704-4542 FAX: 360-586-6838 Email: > schumann@timberland.lib.wa.us > > > From gduimovi at NRCan.gc.ca Fri May 31 11:57:55 2002 From: gduimovi at NRCan.gc.ca (Duimovich, George) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries Message-ID: <3E3C279AF3F9D411BAA00002A529150E024C9B87@S0-OTT-X10> >>You live in another country, one I might add which values order over >>liberty and does not provide the federal protections of the United >>States. So why are you carrying on about the FBI I simply provided a reference to an important review relevant to the thread topic. That I am Canadian is irrelevant, as is your comment on Canada valueing "..order over liberty.." since the news item and topic being discussed concerns your country not ours... As for a Canadian commenting, it should be noted that we are in fact deeply influenced by what happens in the U.S. and any legislative program implemented in the U.S. will be closely watched (and possibly copied here...) Further, the FBI works closely with Canadian counterparts, and the implications should be obvious. As for "carrying on about the FBI" -- my sarcastic editorial about carnivore was partly in fun, but you can't be serious about any offence implied or intended. Without exploding into another thread (which I have no desire to expand upon), the whole history of both our national police forces is repleat with deeply disturbing periods/cases of politized actions and programs... Sarcasm justified.. -----Original Message----- From: Howard Pasternack [mailto:Howard_Pasternack@brown.edu] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries At 07:28 AM 5/31/2002 -0700, Duimovich, George wrote: >Related story, reviewing a time no so long ago in the F B I ' s history >(notice the spaces, cleverly used to avoid Carnivore's detection -- lest I >be put on the big bad list) [yeah, right.. :)] You live in another country, one I might add which values order over liberty and does not provide the federal protections of the United States. So why are you carrying on about the FBI. From chhobbs at cdrewu.edu Fri May 31 16:07:28 2002 From: chhobbs at cdrewu.edu (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: FBI to monitor libraries References: <3E3C279AF3F9D411BAA00002A529150E024C9B87@S0-OTT-X10> Message-ID: <3CF7D800.6010704@cdrewu.edu> Duimovich, George wrote: >>>You live in another country, one I might add which values order over >>>liberty and does not provide the federal protections of the United >>>States. So why are you carrying on about the FBI >>> >>> > >I simply provided a reference to an important review relevant to the thread >topic. That I am Canadian is irrelevant, as is your comment on Canada >valueing "..order over liberty.." since the news item and topic being >discussed concerns your country not ours... > >As for a Canadian commenting, it should be noted that we are in fact deeply >influenced by what happens in the U.S. and any legislative program >implemented in the U.S. will be closely watched (and possibly copied >here...) Further, the FBI works closely with Canadian counterparts, and the >implications should be obvious. > > > I was at Internet Librarian in Washington DC a few months ago, and there was a Canadian librarian there, who claimed that they were removing certain materials from university libraries upon request from American law-enforcement agencies (FBI, etc...) > > -- Charles P. Hobbs King Drew Health Science Library http://www.cdrewu.edu/kdhsl From BScott at library.unt.edu Fri May 31 16:53:50 2002 From: BScott at library.unt.edu (Beth Thomsett-Scott) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: Navigation tracking software Message-ID: Hello, We are hoping to conduct formal usability testing in the summer or fall and would appreciate suggestions on software to track the path participants take to get to the final answer. Software packages that have been suggested are WinWhatWhere, Lotus' ScreenCam and Camtasia. Has anyone had positive or negative experiences with these or other software packages? I will summarize for the list if there is interest. Thanks, Beth University of North Texas >>> "Charles P. Hobbs" 05/31/02 03:14PM >>> Duimovich, George wrote: >>>You live in another country, one I might add which values order over >>>liberty and does not provide the federal protections of the United >>>States. So why are you carrying on about the FBI >>> >>> > >I simply provided a reference to an important review relevant to the thread >topic. That I am Canadian is irrelevant, as is your comment on Canada >valueing "..order over liberty.." since the news item and topic being >discussed concerns your country not ours... > >As for a Canadian commenting, it should be noted that we are in fact deeply >influenced by what happens in the U.S. and any legislative program >implemented in the U.S. will be closely watched (and possibly copied >here...) Further, the FBI works closely with Canadian counterparts, and the >implications should be obvious. > > > I was at Internet Librarian in Washington DC a few months ago, and there was a Canadian librarian there, who claimed that they were removing certain materials from university libraries upon request from American law-enforcement agencies (FBI, etc...) > > -- Charles P. Hobbs King Drew Health Science Library http://www.cdrewu.edu/kdhsl From Linda_Salem at redlands.edu Fri May 31 16:54:11 2002 From: Linda_Salem at redlands.edu (Salem, Linda) Date: Wed May 18 14:24:10 2005 Subject: June LACASIS event: Integrating Digital Reference Message-ID: www.lacasis.org LOS ANGELES CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR INFORMATION SCIENCE Be A Part Of It All INTEGRATING DIGITAL REFERENCE Date: THURSDAY, JUNE 27, 2002 Location: South Pasadena Public Library, 1100 Oxley Street, South Pasadena, CA, 91030 Time: 6:00 - 7:00 p.m., Registration, Networking & "Summer Salad Buffet" 7 - 7:15 p.m., LACASIS Business Meeting 7:15 p.m., Program Speakers: Nancy O'Neill, Principal Librarian for Reference Services, Santa Monica Public Library Alice Kawakami, Program Director for Digital Reference, University of California, Los Angeles WHAT IS DIGITAL OR ONLINE REFERENCE AND HOW ARE LIBRARIES INTEGRATING IT INTO CURRENT REFERENCE MODELS? Tonight's speakers will demonstrate software that utilizes chat and collaborative-browsing technology that allows librarians and patrons to communicate in real-time. Librarians can escort users through web sites and searches, assist in filling out online forms, and explain and demonstrate resources at the point of need. Public and academic library issues discussed will include implementation, policies, staffing, training, marketing and assessment. Registration cost: ASIST Members -- $15.00 Non-Members -- $18.00 Students -- $5.00 Directions to the South Pasadena Public Library : Please consult Yahoo! Maps (maps.yahoo.com) or MapQuest (www.mapquest.com) for detailed driving directions. Send this form and payment to: Heather Hessel LACASIS Reservations 9054 Carson St, Apt A Culver City, CA 90232 --- OR --- register at www.lacasis.org Please note: All payments must be received by the registration date indicated. Full refunds will be given for any cancellations prior to that date. LACASIS reserves the right to invoice registered individuals who do not cancel within the specified time period. If you have registration questions, please contact Heather Hessel at hhessel@acm.org or 310-559-0307. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Make check payable to: LACASIS Reservations Deadline: MONDAY, JUNE 24, 5:00 p.m. NAME: ________________________________________ AFFILIATION: __________________________________ ADDRESS: _____________________________________ _______________________________________________ DAYTIME PHONE:______________________________ E-MAIL ADDRESS:______________________________ LACASIS MEMBER: Y N STUDENT: Y N AMOUNT ENCLOSED: ______________ From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed May 1 08:10:02 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: Web4Lib Frequently Asked Questions List May 01 Message-ID: <200205011210.g41CA2D26450@ohiolink.ohiolink.edu> WEB4LIB FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS May 01, 2002 This is the current set of Frequently Asked Questions (or, perhaps, Frequently Needed Answers) for the Web4Lib mailing list. Questions in this message: How do I unsubscribe from Web4Lib? What help is available if the listserv won't do what I want? Where are the list's archives? Where is its Web site? What topics are usually considered on- and off-topic? Is there a list for Internet filtering? HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE FROM WEB4LIB? To unsubscribe from Web4Lib, you must e-mail the listserv program that distributes the list. PLEASE NOTE: this is a different address than the list itself. To unsubscribe, send e-mail to listserv@webjunction.org with this single line in the body of the message: unsubscribe web4lib Shortly after you send this command, you should receive a confirmation message from the listserv reading, "You have been removed from list web4lib@webjunction.org. Thanks for being with us." This message usually arrives within a few minutes, but may take a couple of hours if the server is busy; if you do not receive it in a reasonable time, you should contact the list owner, Roy Tennant, at rtennant@library.berkeley.edu. The listserv running Web4Lib is currently ListProc 6.0. This is a powerful and flexible program, and it may offer you options for management and receipt of Web4Lib that you did not know about. For further options, send listserv@webjunction.org the message "help", or consult the command reference at the Web4Lib Web site . WHAT HELP IS AVAILABLE IF THE LISTSERV WON'T DO WHAT I WANT? There are two common reasons why the commands above don't work and give you an error message. One is, ahem, operator error. If you're trying to unsubscribe or issue other listserv commands, make sure that you are spelling both the listserv address and the command correctly. The other common reason why unsubscribe and other commands fail is that your e-mail address has changed since you first subscribed to the list. Sometimes this is because you have chosen to forward mail from your original address to a new one. Sometimes this is due to your organization changing its entire e-mail addressing structure en masse (for example, from addresses like "chris@mailhost.domain.org" to "chris@domain.org"). For security reasons, listserv will only process commands affecting your subscription if the command is mailed from the same address as the original subscription request. If your address has changed, and you are still able to use the old address to send a message, use the old address to unsubscribe from the list and then subscribe from your new address. If (and only if) you have exhausted all the alternatives available at your end, you will need to send e-mail to the listowner, Roy Tennant, at rtennant@library.berkeley.edu. Please be patient: unlike the listserv, Roy is a human and spends several minutes each day doing things other than administering Web4Lib. WHERE ARE THE LIST'S ARCHIVES? WHERE IS ITS WEB SITE? Web4Lib's online home is . Much of the information in this message is based on material at that site. The Web4Lib archives, , provide keyword searching of every message posted to the list since the spring of 1995. The archive can also be browsed by date, subject, or author. WHAT TOPICS ARE USUALLY CONSIDERED ON- AND OFF-TOPIC? The offical posting policy is located at . Please read it. Web4Lib is usually an easy-going place, open to posts that may only be tangential to the core subject of the World Wide Web and libraries. There are some helpful guidelines for keeping Web4Lib productive, however: keep your posts concise and substantive; post when you have something to add, and not simply when you want to express agreement (or disagreement) with an earlier post; post when you have something to say to all of the several thousand subscribers, and not when your message is intended only for one or two individuals; and be civil. Those guidelines aside, some types of posting are always out of line. Advertisements are inappropriate, although you may certainly comment on the merits of a product within the context of a list discussion. Vendors may discuss their products in the same context. Personal attacks, insults, and name-calling may not be posted to the list. Material with copyright restrictions that disallow distribution on the list may not be posted; if you have permission to redistribute the material, you should say so in your post. Finally, virus warnings should NOT be posted to the list until and unless they have been confirmed by CERT or CIAC . Before forwarding a virus warning to anyone, you may wish to acquaint yourself with the history of virus hoaxes at . IS THERE A LIST FOR INTERNET FILTERING? The subject of filtering software for Internet access is not off topic for Web4Lib. However, it is a subject which is certainly capable of generating enough traffic for its own list, and that list is block-lib. For information on subscribing, please visit . This list will be distributed to Web4Lib on the 1st and 15th of each month with the subject "Web4Lib Frequently Asked Questions List". If your mail client can filter incoming messages based on their subject lines, and if you would rather not see this message again, simply set it to delete or otherwise refile messages with that subject heading. If you think there are questions which should be addressed on this list (especially if you can provide the answer!) please contact Thomas Dowling, tdowling@ohiolink.edu. From gwiseman at ci.waco.tx.us Wed May 1 12:01:52 2002 From: gwiseman at ci.waco.tx.us (Gillian Wiseman) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: internet filtering problem Message-ID: <1696CF7D130DD511AA7F0002B3029A66019D2D64@WACONT> I'm searching for a very quick solution to a problem that has developed here at our library. Our four public access children's computers, through an accidental failure to renew a subscription, are temporarily unfiltered. We will have our regular filtering product back soon, but my boss wants me to find a simple short-term emergency solution to the unfiltered access. I'm sure there must be something I can do, but I'm not up on security/filtering features of browsers. Even restricting the browser (we are using IE 5.0 with Windows NT) to a limited range of websites would be okay for the few days we anticipate the problem lasting. If anyone has some advice to offer me I'd really appreciate it. I don't want to get into filtering issues (I probably agree!), just solve this temporary problem. I'm much more used to dealing with databases and teaching classes than solving this sort of problem. Gillian Wiseman Electronic Resources Librarian Waco-McLennan County Library From vrdconf at ericir.syr.edu Wed May 1 13:48:36 2002 From: vrdconf at ericir.syr.edu (VRD Conference) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: Student Call for Proposals Message-ID: The Virtual Reference Desk(SM) 4th Annual Digital Reference Conference "Charting the Course of Reference: Toward a Preferred Future" November 11-12, 2002 Chicago, Illinois, USA Call for Student Papers The Virtual Reference Desk(SM) invites graduate students in the fields of library and information science to submit papers for the VRD 2002 Student Paper Competition. The purpose of this competition is to highlight exemplary graduate student research or thesis work in the area of digital reference libraries. Interested students are invited to submit a paper for consideration by June 28, 2002, along with a letter from an advisor verifying student status. All student submissions will be notified of acceptance no later than August 23, 2002. The author of the best student paper will win one free registration and free transportation to the VRD 4th Annual Digital Reference Conference in Chicago, IL, where he/she will present the paper before an international audience. The winner will be honored during an awards ceremony at the conference, and the paper may be published in the conference proceedings. The fourth annual VRD conference will emphasize planning and direction founded upon practical experience, research, or trend analyses. Authors are encouraged to examine issues, identify practices, and propose organizational and technological systems, standards, and practices that advance the state of reference librarianship as practiced in a digital environment. For more information on the VRD annual conference, please see the conference Web site at http://www.vrd.org/conferences/VRD2002/index.shtml. DEADLINES: Student papers will be accepted until June 28, 2002 (see paper submission instructions below). The winning student will be notified by August 23, 2002. PAPER SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS: Papers should include student's name, institution, address, phone, fax, e-mail, brief biographical information, and a letter from an advisor verifying student status. Please e-mail your paper to VRD Conference (vrdconf@vrd.org) by June 22, 2002. You may also submit your paper online at http://www.oclc.org/institute/events/vrd2002/proposal_form.htm. Papers should be in Word format, and use APA style. The VRD 2002 Annual Digital Reference Conference is hosted by the Information Institute of Syracuse and the OCLC Institute. For more information regarding the VRD 2002 Annual Digital Reference Conference, please contact Marilyn Schick, vrdconf@vrd.org, 800-464-9107 or, 315- 443 -3640. The Virtual Reference Desk(SM) is a project of the U.S. Department of Education, operated by the Information Institute of Syracuse, Syracuse University. Located at: 621 Skytop Road, Suite 160, Syracuse, New York 13244 - 5290. Marilyn Schick Conference & Event Specialist Virtual Reference Desk - www.vrd.org ERIC Clearinghouse on Information & Technology Syracuse University, 621 Skytop Road - Suite 160 Syracuse, New York 13244 - 5290 800 464 9107 - Fax: 315 443 5448 From BACKUSJ at mail.nlm.nih.gov Wed May 1 17:02:08 2002 From: BACKUSJ at mail.nlm.nih.gov (Joyce Backus) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: Systems position, Preservation & Collection Management, National Library of Medicine Message-ID: The National Library of Medicine has an opening for a Technical Information Specialist/Systems Librarian in the Preservation and Collection Management (PCM) Section of the Public Services Division. The Library is located on the campus of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Museums, galleries and other attractions of the Washington, D.C. area are within easy access. NLM is the world's largest medical library. The collection contains approximately six million items, including an outstanding collection of rare historical materials. The Preservation and Collection Management Section is responsible for preserving and managing the Library's collections. For information about the program, see: www.nlm.nih.gov./pubs/factsheets/preservation.html . The successful candidate will serve as the Section's systems expert. Duties include: overseeing PCM implementation of the Library's integrated library system, defining and requesting system modifications, testing and implementing new functions, designing reports, developing documentation, and training Section staff; assisting unit heads in systems aspects of all Section operations; serving as the Section's expert on bibliographic records and other metadata; planning and implementing programs for preserving electronic resources; training and coordinating the work of PCM computer support coordinators and addressing microcomputer and software needs of the Section; participating in projects to develop, evaluate, and improve automated systems library-wide. The position is posted at the GS-13 level (salary range $66,229 - $86,095). The closing date is May 20, 2002. To see the full position description and instructions for submitting an online application see http://careerhere.nih.gov. The announcement number is NLM-02-0122. For additional details about the position contact Margaret Byrnes, Head, Preservation and Collection Management Section (email: mbyrnes@nlm.nih.gov; phone (301) 435-7110). Questions related to applying for the position should be sent to applications@nlm.nih.gov Joyce E. B. Backus Web Management Team Public Services Division National Library of Medicine Bethesda, MD 20894 301-496-7732 joyce_backus@nlm.nih.gov From avi-list at searchtools.com Wed May 1 18:48:48 2002 From: avi-list at searchtools.com (Avi Rappoport) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] "search our site" stats In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325133831.00af3588@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325133831.00af3588@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: It makes a lot of sense to me, most end-users have a hard time articulating the kind of search they want to do. Amazon has gotten a lot of praise for having a simple search field that distributing queries to multiple backend search engines and databases. You could do this with Z39.50, Muse Global, or Harvest-style systems, metasearch middleware systems, or just write a script that sends the queries and displays the results. I have some slides from a talk on P2P, metasearch and distributed search at Someday, I'll get the article finished as well. Best of luck, Avi At 10:49 AM -0800 3/25/02, Blake Carver wrote: >A while back there was a bit of a discussion on the pros and cons of a >"search our site" search engine. At CIL in DC I noticed a couple of people >say that people don't seem to make the distinction between a "site search", >an "opac search" or a "database search", it's all just searching the >libraries web site to our users. >Has anyone else been keeping any kind of logs? -- Complete Guide to Search Engines for Web Sites and Intranets From cchick at earthlink.net Wed May 1 18:50:03 2002 From: cchick at earthlink.net (Cindy L. Chick) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: LLRX Update - May 1, 2002 Message-ID: <001201c1f162$8bfbd270$30acd9cf@CindysComputer> New on LLRX.com for May 1, 2002: http://www.llrx.com Edited and Published by Sabrina I. Pacifici and Cindy L. Chick **Law Meets Blog: Electronic Publishing Comes Of Age http://www.llrx.com/features/lawblog.htm Denise M. Howell is a member of a small but expanding group of lawyers, law professors, judges, clerks and law librarians who are blogging. Learn more about these pioneers, their blogs, and their perspectives on legal issues and the Web. **Casecrawler: SCOUG Rating Scale Review http://www.llrx.com/features/casecrawler.htm T.R. Halvorson reviews another new alternative online legal research service. This one currently focuses on Florida law but has plans to cover other jurisdictions including Georgia, Alabama, Virginia and New York. **Super Searchers Go To the Source http://www.llrx.com/features/super.htm This is an excerpt from the book Super Searchers Go To the Source: the Interviewing and Hands-On Information Strategies of Top Primary Researchers-Online, on the Phone, and in Person, by Risa Sacks. **Super Searchers Go To the Source - Lynn Peterson: Public Records "To the Ends of the Earth", Part 1 http://www.llrx.com/features/peterson.htm In another excerpt from her book, Risa Sacks interviews public research expert Lynn Peterson about effective strategies and resources. **International Jurisdiction in European Union E-Commerce Contracts http://www.llrx.com/features/eu_ecom.htm Norel Rosner's guide is a detailed analysis of international contracts executed through electronic means, with a focus on the question of which forum has jurisdiction to address potential conflicts that may arise from such contracts. **Update to Hunting For a Job? Try The Internet http://www.llrx.com/features/jobhunting.htm Barbara Fullerton has added a new section on recommended books for job hunting, on and off the Web. **Research Guide to Ukrainian Law http://www.llrx.com/features/ukraine.htm Myroslava Kryvonos's expansive guide includes resources on Ukrainian law, the history of the country's legal system, the legislative system, legal education, legal materials, legal citations and other legal related sources. **Can't We All Just Get Along? Integration in Case Management Systems http://www.llrx.com/columns/kccase.htm Ross Kodner and Sheryl Cramer's new column focuses on case management systems for law practices. This time around they address the issue of e-mail integration with case managers. **Workshare DeltaView and Keyspan Digital Media Remote http://www.llrx.com/columns/legaltech5.htm Brett Burney reviews what is billed as the "The World's Leading Document Comparison Tool," as well as a small new infrared device that allows you to control multimedia applications on your computer. **Point, Click & Wow!: A Quick Guide to Brilliant Laptop Presentations http://www.llrx.com/columns/guide63.htm Marie Wallace gives her resounding approval to this practical new book that combines information on presentations, presentation software and designing effective visuals. **Latest Links http://www.llrx.com/links/050102.htm Margaret Berkland reviews: Health Privacy Project, MapServer, Pollen Watch, Public Records Online, Scholarly Electronic Publishing Bibliography, and the West Virginia Supreme Court Recent Opinions Weblog. **Editor's Featured Site: ConsumerWebWatch.org http://www.ConsumerWebWatch.org This recently introduced free site is funded by grants from several high profile trusts, and run by Consumers Union. The stated goal "is to investigate, inform, and improve the quality of information published on the Web." The user-friendly design provides links to research reports, guidelines for consumers to determine web site credibility, annotated links to related watch-dog resources, and a media center. (Editor, Sabrina I. Pacifici) **LLRXBuzz April 29, 2002 http://www.llrx.com/buzz/buzz106.htm Tara Calishain reviews: -Pew Internet & American Life Project - Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society (RAPS) -Independent Counsel Investigations -Almanac of Policy Issues -Big Big Big Bankruptcies - Top Ten Court Website Awards -Surveys From Financial Times -Another Undocumented Google Syntax -- Date-Based Searching (and API fun) - Google Updates News Search **LLRX Newstand - http://www.llrx.com/newstand/index.htm Updated daily: the latest news on legal-tech issues, legislation, web resources, search engines, online research and more. (Edited and Compiled by Sabrina I. Pacifici) **9-11-2001 Related News and Legal/Legislative Resources, Updated Daily http://www.llrx.com/newstand/wtc.htm (Edited and Compiled by Sabrina I. Pacifici) **Portal to State/Federal Legislation http://www.llrx.com/resources7.htm Sabrina I. Pacifici has updated her guide to State & Federal Web resources on legislation and legislative issues as well as to non- government political information sources, government reports, and fee- based online legislative services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe to LLRX Buzz (distributed every Monday) and/or the LLRX Update (distributed twice each month), please use the following link: http://www.llrx.com/subscribe.htm. (c) Copyright 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 Law Library Resource Xchange LLC, all rights reserved. Permission to redistribute by email is granted provided the entire issue, including the copyright statement, remains intact. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From fc01 at aub.edu.lb Thu May 2 12:46:32 2002 From: fc01 at aub.edu.lb (Fatme Charafeddine) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:40 2005 Subject: policies and procedures Message-ID: <006d01c1f1f8$ea53abe0$5a64a8c0@jft90> Just started a library committe for the design anf maintenance od the Library Web Page. It is time to put the policies and procedures about how we should go about that. What others are doing? how is work coordinated? who is is responsible for what? Who has the final say on things? Reference libararian, automation librarian, electronic resources? If sample of policies and procedures are available that would be great. Thanks Fatme Charafeddine Serials Librarian/Jafet Library American University of Beirut PO Box 11-0236 Beirut Lebanon Fax 961 1 744 703 Tel. 961 1 350 000 (2608) ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From carver.50 at osu.edu Thu May 2 08:05:20 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] "search our site" stats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020502080341.01ae6cf8@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> We've now been keeping stats for a few months, here's the latest counts: Term Hits ------------------ medline 225 lexis nexis 134 eric 115 psychinfo 103 webct 74 jobs 58 lexis 57 isi 55 jstor 53 academic universe 46 mla 46 biosis 45 dissertation 41 employment 41 science citation index 40 proquest 39 course reserves 37 library hours 37 periodical abstracts 37 avery index 36 electronic reserves 36 md consult 36 micromedex 35 dissertations 33 cab abstracts 32 dictionary 32 electronic reserve 32 lexus nexus 31 cinahl 30 citation index 29 registrar 28 renew 28 lexis-nexis 26 psycinfo 26 proxy 24 hoovers 22 web of science 22 pubmed 21 job 20 netlibrary 20 sirs 20 genealogy 19 mla bibliography 19 oxford english dictionary 19 psych info 19 inspec 18 web ct 18 agricola 17 congressional universe 17 abi 16 From roy.tennant at ucop.edu Thu May 2 11:34:21 2002 From: roy.tennant at ucop.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: DC-2002 Call For Papers Message-ID: <12A78361-5DE2-11D6-BDE2-000A27E16A20@ucop.edu> Begin forwarded message: > From: DLI2 Coordinator > Date: Thu May 02, 2002 05:57:34 AM US/Pacific > To: DLI2-ANNOUNCE@dli2.nsf.gov > Subject: DC-2002 Call For Papers > Reply-To: DLI2 Coordinator > > DC-2002: > Metadata for e-Communities > Supporting Diversity and Convergence > Florence, 13-17 October 2002 > > 2rd International Conference on Dublin Core and Metadata Applications > Combined Conference, Tutorials, and Workshop > http://www.bncf.net/dc2002 > > Dates and times > > Sunday evening, October 13 - Thursday, October 17 2002 > > Venue > > Convitto della Calza - Oltrarno Meeting Center > Piazza della Calza 6, > 50125 Florence, Italy > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > The DCMI 2002 Programme Committee invites papers > in the following categories: > > * E-Government > * Search engines and metadata > * Educational metadata: improving communication > * Knowledge management > * Use of DC metadata for commerce and intranets > * Semantic web: roles of standard cataloguing, > indexing, metadata and ontologies > * Metadata interoperability: tools and protocols > * Cultural heritage metadata > > The size and scope of the World Wide Web often make information > discovery difficult. Metadata is an important tool in addressing the > problem of resource discovery on the Web. > > The convergence of resource description standards and development of > enabling infrastructure promises to improve the discovery and management > of information across and within disciplines. The Dublin Core Metadata > Initiative has been active in the development of Web resource discovery > standards since 1995 when a core set of elements was agreed upon in a > workshop held in by Dublin, Ohio, U.S.A. > > DC 2002 will include the 10th workshop in the series, and will be the > second DCMI conference to include a conference track and tutorial track > in addition to the workshop event. > > Deadlines and Author Guidelines > > Papers deadline is 15th June 2002 > > Submission details can be found at the conference web site: > http://www.bncf.net/dc2002/papers > > Papers should be submitted via a web form at > http://www.bncf.net/dc2002/papers in PDF format or in MS Word > > Authors guidelines and style instructions are available at: > http://www.bncf.net/dc2002/papers > > All submissions will be peer-reviewed by the program committee and > published on line and in print as the DC2002 Conference Proceedings. > > All accepted papers are expected to be presented by one or more of the > authors at the conference. > > > Conference Promoters > > > Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze: > http://www.bncf.firenze.sbn.it > > DCMI: > http://www.dublincore.org > > European University Institute: > http://www.iue.it > > Istituto e Museo di Storia della Scienza: > http://galileo.imss.firenze.it > > Italian Library Association(AIB): > http://www.aib.it > > Regione Toscana: > http://www.regione.toscana.it > > University of Florence: > http://www.unifi.it > > > The DCMI 2002 Programme Committee > From leo at leoklein.com Thu May 2 11:55:23 2002 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: EXHIBIT: Kent State at Baruch College, May 6, 1970 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020502115352.01fd9e88@mail.baruch.cuny.edu> Kent State at Baruch College, May 6, 1970 New Online Exhibit at Newman Library, Baruch College, CUNY In the aftermath of the Kent State shootings, Baruch College like many campuses across the country, held a commemorative service. This took place on Wednesday, May 6, 1970. The service was recorded and excerpts were included in the college yearbook of the following year. In addition to this service, other activities took place over the course of several days and photographs and written accounts were made of some of these. This material offers a valuable insight into the contemporary reaction of ordinary students and faculty, in this case at Baruch, to the shootings at Kent State. In commemoration of the tragic events which took place at Kent State on May 4 1970 and the reaction of profound shock and disquiet that this event produced on campuses both here at Baruch and elsewhere, the William and Anita Newman Library together with the Baruch College Archives makes this exhibit available. Exhibit URL: Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator home :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://leoklein.com office :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://newman.baruch.cuny.edu radio station ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://patachon.com/radio ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From madin at academicinfo.net Thu May 2 12:44:45 2002 From: madin at academicinfo.net (Mike Madin) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: Additions to Academic Info - April 2002 Message-ID: <00f401c1f1f8$ad8d8140$0200000a@qwest.net> Apologies for cross-posting [ai-new ; dig_ref ; web4lib ] Dear Colleagues, Twice a year I post a copy of Academic Info's monthly email What's New announcement letter to a few library discussion lists. If you'd like to subscribe to the free monthly listing send an email to new@academicicinfo.net . We add between 250 and 500 resources a month in subjects ranging from Afghanistan Studies to Zoology. In April Academic Info added 369 sites to our directory of online educational resources. We added sites such as: --British Library Net - Internet Resources --Clergy Abuse Tracker: A Coverage Weblog --Don't Ask Don't Tell Don't Pursue --Hawaii War Records Depository --Internet Librarian International 2002 - Presentation Links --Mapleleafweb.com - [Canadian] Political Education Portal --Milosevic on Trial - Video Archive --Nature - Genome Gateway - Papers --Palestinian Refugee ResearchNet --Pelagic Shark Research Foundation To review these and the 359 others sites added last month go to http://www.academicinfo.net/new200204.html . Two new subjects added: Canadian Literature http://www.academicinfo.net/canlit.html Business Administration - Marketing http://www.academicinfo.net/busmarketing.html Two new sub-sections added: Holocaust Studies: Portals & General Resources http://www.academicinfo.net/histholometa.html Environmental Studies: U.S. Dept. of Energy Resources http://www.academicinfo.net/environstdoe.html Best Regards, Mike Madin Academic Info - http://www.academicinfo.net From gprice at gwu.edu Thu May 2 12:42:14 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: OCLC Awarded $9 Million Grant From Gates Foundation To Build Portal For Public Libraries Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020502124105.00abe650@imap.gwu.edu> This might be of interest. DUBLIN, Ohio ? The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation today awarded the Online Computer Library Center (OCLC) a three-year, $9 million grant to build a Web-based, public access computing portal for public libraries and other organizations that provide open access to information. The new portal will build on the foundation?s five-year-old U.S. Library Program, which is providing computers with Internet access to more than 10,000 libraries across the United States. Complete Press Release With Details at: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/libraries/announcements/announce-020502.htm cheers, gary Looking for More News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.freepint.com Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gary@freepint.com From lytlea at oclc.org Thu May 2 13:04:47 2002 From: lytlea at oclc.org (Lytle,Amy) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: Reminder: "Paper Past, Digital Future" Steering by Standards Vide oconference Coming Soon Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC537F7FB@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> [Widely cross-posted with apologies. Please redistribute as appropriate. Thank you!] The OCLC Institute announces the third videoconference in its "Steering by Standards" series: "Paper Past, Digital Future: Managing Metadata Standards in Transition," May 29, 2002, 12:00 p.m. - 2:30 p.m. EDT. Why do we need to augment or replace our "tried and true" cataloging standards? Can multiple standards coexist in a single catalog? Join your colleagues, both local and across North America, to discuss the proliferation of information standards competing for our attention in today's blended world of paper-based and digital information. Barbara Tillett, Library of Congress, will be joined by Liz Bishoff, Colorado Digitization Project, and Sam Dempsey, Informata.com/Baker & Taylor, to discuss the need for and best ways to integrate standards such as Dublin Core, EAD, TEI, and ONIX into existing catalogs. Presentations, panel discussion and the opportunity for questions and comments from the participants will ensure a lively and informative broadcast. Register your site as a satellite-downlink location by clicking on . Cost for this event is $350.00 per site. Contact Amy Lytle for details on purchasing tapes of the entire series. For questions or comments, contact Amy Lytle, OCLC Institute at lytlea@oclc.org or via phone at 800-848-8578 x 5212. ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From bjones at unf.edu Thu May 2 13:57:51 2002 From: bjones at unf.edu (Bob Jones) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: Webserver: Multiple Choices Message-ID: Our campus Linux Apache webserver (which the Library uses) has recently been upgraded. The campus administrators have intentionally set it so that if a document is not retrievable (previously 404 - not available) a screen displays multiple choices (status 300) of documents with close or variant spellings. For a number of reasons we don't want this behavior in the library Web tree. 1. Can someone tell me which configuration variable sets this behavior. 2. Is there a way to turn it off at the directory level? If this can be done through an .htaccess file, please help me with the syntax. Thanks. Bob Jones Robert P. Jones, M.S.L.S. Head, Library Public Services & Library Systems Thomas G. Carpenter Library University of North Florida Library - Building 12 4567 St. Johns Bluff Road, South P.O. Box 17605 Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 bjones@unf.edu Telephone 904-620-2552 FAX 904-620-2719 From bernies at uillinois.edu Thu May 2 14:20:17 2002 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: "You can amost hear the librarians weep" Message-ID: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CF6FA@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> I was reading a recent issue of New Scientist last night, and ran across a brief but interesting review of Oxford Reference Online. The author seems to be of the opinion that Web resources such as this will hasten the end of reference libraries. It ends with the line "You can almost hear the librarians weep." :-) The review is available online at: http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opbooks.jsp?id=ns23408 Bernie Sloan Senior Library Information Systems Consultant University of Illinois Office for Planning and Budgeting 338 Henry Administration Building 506 S. Wright Street Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217) 333-4895 Fax: (217) 265-0454 E-mail: bernies@uillinois.edu ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca Thu May 2 15:36:12 2002 From: cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Gray) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Webserver: Multiple Choices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You want the ErrorDocument directive for Apache which can be set in the server config file per directory or virtual host or can be set that .htaccess. The documentation is at and . Chris Gray Library Systems University of Waterloo On Thu, 2 May 2002, Bob Jones wrote: > > Our campus Linux Apache webserver (which the Library uses) has recently > been upgraded. The campus administrators have intentionally set it so > that if a document is not retrievable (previously 404 - not available) a > screen displays multiple choices (status 300) of documents with close or > variant spellings. For a number of reasons we don't want this behavior in > the library Web tree. > > 1. Can someone tell me which configuration variable sets this behavior. > > 2. Is there a way to turn it off at the directory level? If this can be > done through an .htaccess file, please help me with the syntax. > > Thanks. > > > Bob Jones > > Robert P. Jones, M.S.L.S. > Head, Library Public Services & Library Systems > Thomas G. Carpenter Library > University of North Florida > Library - Building 12 > 4567 St. Johns Bluff Road, South > P.O. Box 17605 > Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 > bjones@unf.edu Telephone 904-620-2552 FAX 904-620-2719 > > > From dkh2 at po.cwru.edu Thu May 2 16:00:23 2002 From: dkh2 at po.cwru.edu (D. Keith Higgs) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Webserver: Multiple Choices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c1f213$fecd4390$68601681@digilib> This is, of course, assuming that your sysadmin has not disabled the use of .htaccess files because - since most people don't know Jack -you-know- about these things they are likely to mess things up or create a data security problem. Keith D. Keith Higgs Case Western Reserve University Webmaster - University Library Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Chris Gray Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 03:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Webserver: Multiple Choices You want the ErrorDocument directive for Apache which can be set in the server config file per directory or virtual host or can be set that .htaccess. The documentation is at and . Chris Gray Library Systems University of Waterloo On Thu, 2 May 2002, Bob Jones wrote: > > Our campus Linux Apache webserver (which the Library uses) has > recently been upgraded. The campus administrators have intentionally > set it so that if a document is not retrievable (previously 404 - not > available) a screen displays multiple choices (status 300) of > documents with close or variant spellings. For a number of reasons we > don't want this behavior in the library Web tree. > > 1. Can someone tell me which configuration variable sets this > behavior. > > 2. Is there a way to turn it off at the directory level? If this can > be done through an .htaccess file, please help me with the syntax. > > Thanks. > > > Bob Jones > > Robert P. Jones, M.S.L.S. > Head, Library Public Services & Library Systems > Thomas G. Carpenter Library > University of North Florida > Library - Building 12 > 4567 St. Johns Bluff Road, South > P.O. Box 17605 > Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 > bjones@unf.edu Telephone 904-620-2552 FAX 904-620-2719 > > > From cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca Thu May 2 16:45:58 2002 From: cpgray at library.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Gray) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Webserver: Multiple Choices In-Reply-To: <000401c1f213$fecd4390$68601681@digilib> Message-ID: But even if the sysadmin is holding the reins tightly, the ErrorDocument behavior can be set to affect different directories or virtual hosts differently in the main server config files. So you and the sysadmin can each have what you want. Chris On Thu, 2 May 2002, D. Keith Higgs wrote: > This is, of course, assuming that your sysadmin has not disabled the use > of .htaccess files because - since most people don't know Jack > -you-know- about these things they are likely to mess things up or > create a data security problem. > > Keith > D. Keith Higgs > Case Western Reserve University > Webmaster - University Library > Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] > On Behalf Of Chris Gray > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 03:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Webserver: Multiple Choices > > > You want the ErrorDocument directive for Apache which can be set in the > server config file per directory or virtual host or can be set that > .htaccess. The documentation is at > and > . > > Chris Gray > Library Systems > University of Waterloo > > > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Bob Jones wrote: > > > > > Our campus Linux Apache webserver (which the Library uses) has > > recently been upgraded. The campus administrators have intentionally > > set it so that if a document is not retrievable (previously 404 - not > > available) a screen displays multiple choices (status 300) of > > documents with close or variant spellings. For a number of reasons we > > > don't want this behavior in the library Web tree. > > > > 1. Can someone tell me which configuration variable sets this > > behavior. > > > > 2. Is there a way to turn it off at the directory level? If this can > > > be done through an .htaccess file, please help me with the syntax. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Bob Jones > > > > Robert P. Jones, M.S.L.S. > > Head, Library Public Services & Library Systems > > Thomas G. Carpenter Library > > University of North Florida > > Library - Building 12 > > 4567 St. Johns Bluff Road, South > > P.O. Box 17605 > > Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 > > bjones@unf.edu Telephone 904-620-2552 FAX 904-620-2719 > > > > > > > > > > From ugur at cs.brown.edu Thu May 2 19:24:21 2002 From: ugur at cs.brown.edu (Ugur Cetintemel) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:42 2005 Subject: CFP: Federated Conference 2002 --- DOA'02, ODBASE'02, CoopIS'02 Message-ID: <3CD1CAA5.176C190B@cs.brown.edu> --- Apologies if you receive this message multiple times --- Federated Conference 2002 - Call For Papers ** DEADLINE: May 31, 2002 ** Federated Conference: "The Move to Meaningful Internet Systems and Ubiquitous Computing" 2002 consisting of: - International Symposium on Distributed Objects and Applications DOA'02 - International Conference on Ontologies, Databases and Applications of Semantics ODBASE'02 - International Conference on Cooperative Information Systems CoopIS'02 University of California, Irvine Oct 28 - Nov 1, 2002 http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/fedconf/ SCOPE. The current and future software needs are towards the development of large and complex Intelligent Networked Information Systems, covering a wide range of issues (such as Data and Web Semantics, Distributed Objects, Web Services, Databases, Workflow, Cooperation, Interoperability, Mobility) as required for the deployment of Internet- and Intranet-based systems in organizations and for e-business. This federated event, colocating DOA'02, ODBASE'02, and CoopIS'02, will provide a unique opportunity for researchers and practitioners to understand the recent developments in ubiquitous computing. SOLICITATIONS. Two kinds of submissions are being solicited. Full scientific papers, to be reviewed rigorously by at least three members of one of the Program Committees of the federated event. Relevant practice reports on on-going industrial research projects, case studies, best practices, etc. in the areas covered, mainly from industrial, business and commercial practice, to be selected for relevance and quality by a separate Industry Track Program Committee. Selected scientific papers or practice reports will be published in the scientific conference proceedings or Industry Track proceedings, respectively. The final proceedings will be published by Springer Verlag (Lecture Notes in Computer Science Series). SUBMISSION. Instructions are available at: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/fedconf/submit.html AREAS OF INTEREST. Broad areas of interest include, but are not limited to: DOA'02 * Enabling Technologies * Middleware * Distributed Objects and Applications * Internet Computing * Web Services ODBASE'02 * Design, Tools, and Methodologies * Ontologies * XML Databases * Web Semantics * Semantic Tools CoopIS'02 * Cooperative Information Systems * Interoperation * Workflow Systems * Enterprise Technologies * Agent Technologies IMPORTANT DATES: Paper submission due : May 31, 2002 Acceptance notification : July 15, 2002 Final version due : August 20, 2002 FEDERATED EVENT CO-CHAIRS: Robert Meersman Zahir Tari Mike Papazoglou meersman@vub.ac.be zahirt@cs.rmit.edu.au mikep@kub.nl DOA'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Rachid Guerraoui Joe Loyall Douglas Schmidt rachid.guerraoui@epfl.ch jloyall@bbn.com schmidt@uci.edu OBBASE'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Karl Aberer Ling Liu karl.aberer@epfl.ch lingliu@cc.gatech.edu CoopIS'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Calton Pu Stefano Spaccapietra calton@cc.gatech.edu stefano.spaccapietra@epfl.ch TUTORIAL CHAIR: Vipul Kashyap kashyap@nlm.nih.gov INDUSTRIAL PROGRAM CHAIR: Robert Meersman meersman@vub.ac.be PUBLICITY CHAIR: Ugur Cetintemel ugur@cs.brown.edu From jparadis at wtcc.sa.gov.au Sun May 12 23:23:46 2002 From: jparadis at wtcc.sa.gov.au (Jenny Paradiso) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:47 2005 Subject: language conversion software Message-ID: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone is using language conversion software on their Public Access Computers? We are considering purchasing 'NJStar Communicator 2.23', which allows the user to view, input and convert Chinese, Japanese and Korean characters on normal english or western windows. Would love to hear from anyone who has been using this software, or another package with similar functionality. Thanks in advance, Jenny Paradiso Jenny Paradiso Librarian, Information Technology West Torrens Libraries Brooker Terrace HILTON SA 5033 Ph: (08) 8416 6255 Fax: (08) 8234 5170 email: jparadis@wtcc.sa.gov.au West Torrens Libraries... learn, grow and enjoy! ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From mwhang at hawaii.edu Mon May 20 06:10:43 2002 From: mwhang at hawaii.edu (Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Usablity) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517162353.016b74b8@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: So can we design a site that leads the users, and provides definitions or help as it goes? Can the instruction and the site content be transparently combined? I think so. Somehow we need to make the site smarter to anticipate the questions people will have as they move through it. Key Points ----------- Absolutely. Library site designers can begin this user-centered process by first answering several primary, important questions: 1. Who are the users and what will they do once they arrive at your site. 2. What are the procedures that users will need to complete in order to accomplish his or her goals. 3. How will the site's design (architecture) be organized to allow users to navigate between pages. By addressing these questions, designers build user profiles. A user profile can be defined simply as a representative group of users in terms of shared goals and characteristics. So in our situation, libraries may have three unique user profiles: Undergraduates, Graduates, and Faculty. An example of what a simple *Undergraduate User Profile* might look like can be found here: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~mwhang/info/profile.htm Once we gather general information about our primary users, we can classify them into groups (Undergraduates, Graduates, Faculty) based on shared characteristics. Based on these groupings (user profiles), we can make some fairly accurate generalizations about the goals and tasks specific to each group. For instance, undergraduates may require a step-by-step approach to familiarizing themselves with the various research tools and services (databases, catalogs, virtual reference services) provided by the library (e.g. how to use them and what certain library terms mean). On the other hand, faculty already know the grindstone and would prefer one-click access to these already-familiar tools versus a guided approach. This leads designers to the next critical step in the design process: Task Analysis. Task analysis involves analyzing the procedures performed for an individual task. Task analysis does not only help identify the procedures required to complete one individual task, but it also identifies sub-tasks that may also be required to complete this one procedure. In a nutshell, you identify functionality within the design of a page which not only helps you identify when and where key context sensitive help files should be placed, but you map out critical procedures that can be used for your tutorial pages as well and you also reinforce the primary goals and objectives for building the library website in the first place. To help you visualize this, let say we want to conduct a task analysis for undergraduates searching for articles on the library website. To keep this example short, let's assume that the Undergraduate is already familiar with what a database is and how to create a search query. STEP 1: User Goal --------------------- To find a news article required to complete an assignment due the next day. STEP 2: User Tasks ---------------------- 1. To find a database that contains news articles This would involve: ------------------- a. Scanning database title for familiar news-related terms b. Scanning database scope notes for familiar news-related terms c. Being attracted to interesting headings or links on the page related to news coverage d. Browse predefined Database Subject Guides related to news coverage e. Searching for a specific database by title 2. To get tips on selecting the appropriate database This would involve: ------------------- a. Scanning page for familiar terms or icons like Help, Tips, Tutorial, ect. b. Emailing a librarian for help In the example above, the main task is "To find a database that contains news articles." However, tasks A thru E are also subtasks which need further decomposition. Essentially, the user needs to scan the interface and decide what to click on in order to move on with the completion of the task. Note: This task list is far from complete, but I hope it gives you an idea of how to identify task requirements and then use this information in designing your pages. Michael From lschlatt at smlnet.sml.lib.la.us Mon May 20 10:14:19 2002 From: lschlatt at smlnet.sml.lib.la.us (N. Lynn Schlatter) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our usability test...") Message-ID: One of the things that has made me envious of the people responding on this thread is that they seem to be able to place users' needs ahead of everything else for web design decisions. If only... Here's the reality at my place. Our public library web site now has a very simple (one might even say "austere") gateway. Previously, every time I put a new link on the front page, four other people wanted their information there as well. Job Openings, Poem of the Day, Building Program, Board of Control, etc. For the sake of employment security, I stopped trying to referee what was really important enough for the front page and kicked them all off. BTW, I keep looking for a "Politics of Web Design" conference and never find one ;-). Lynn Schlatter Instructional Coordinator Shreve Memorial Library www.shreve-lib.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robert Kalabus Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING EVERYTIME. Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to everything at once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and fast for experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the inexperienced ones. Robert Kalabus Hay Library Western Wyoming Community College From kraemer at email.uky.edu Mon May 20 10:40:30 2002 From: kraemer at email.uky.edu (Kraemer, Beth) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our us ability test...") Message-ID: <53FDFC5FCEE2884898A24D89D7EA95D9014170F4@exchs4.uky.edu> With all the variations in terminology (and layout) *between* library web sites, no wonder users are confused! Way back when, you could walk into a new library for the first time, find the "card catalog" and start searching. How about a "Standards of Library Web Design" conference... ******************************************* Beth Kraemer Electronic Resources 2-1 William T. Young Library University of Kentucky -----Original Message----- From: N. Lynn Schlatter [mailto:lschlatt@smlnet.sml.lib.la.us] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 10:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our usability test...") One of the things that has made me envious of the people responding on this thread is that they seem to be able to place users' needs ahead of everything else for web design decisions. If only... Here's the reality at my place. Our public library web site now has a very simple (one might even say "austere") gateway. Previously, every time I put a new link on the front page, four other people wanted their information there as well. Job Openings, Poem of the Day, Building Program, Board of Control, etc. For the sake of employment security, I stopped trying to referee what was really important enough for the front page and kicked them all off. BTW, I keep looking for a "Politics of Web Design" conference and never find one ;-). Lynn Schlatter Instructional Coordinator Shreve Memorial Library www.shreve-lib.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Robert Kalabus Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING EVERYTIME. Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to everything at once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and fast for experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the inexperienced ones. Robert Kalabus Hay Library Western Wyoming Community College From dsabsay at sonic.net Mon May 20 10:59:19 2002 From: dsabsay at sonic.net (David Sabsay) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: Politics Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520075747.00a00e80@127.00.1> How about just a standard Web design? At 07:41 AM 5/20/2002 -0700, you wrote: >With all the variations in terminology (and layout) *between* library web >sites, no wonder users are confused! Way back when, you could walk into a >new library for the first time, find the "card catalog" and start searching. >How about a "Standards of Library Web Design" conference... > >******************************************* >Beth Kraemer >Electronic Resources >2-1 William T. Young Library >University of Kentucky From plum at ulink.net Mon May 20 11:40:32 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520075747.00a00e80@127.00.1> Message-ID: Even with W3C, we still have multiple browsers and platforms with which to contend. --It's after 8am: Have you looked at your page in IE on a Mac today? Seriously though, there's a fine line between establishing policies that standardize a Web site (and hopefully enhancing usability) and stifling creativity (and perhaps hurting usability). --Nancy > ...every time I put > a new link on the front page, four other people wanted their information > there as well. > ... How about just a standard Web design? >> ...With all the variations in terminology (and layout) *between* library web >> sites, no wonder users are confused! ... >> How about a "Standards of Library Web Design" conference... From Sarah_Graham at emerson.edu Mon May 20 11:45:30 2002 From: Sarah_Graham at emerson.edu (Sarah Graham) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Message-ID: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164E6@mail.emerson.edu> I think we're getting away from Blake's original question about the larger philosophical issue of whether we use our web sites to teach, rather than the related issue of whether we should use jargon on our web sites. One issue in particular I'm thinking about is the fact that my library's recent usability test uncovered something that librarians have been observing for some time - that users are not distinguishing between web sites, individual web pages, and databases. Examples of such confusion are: student thinks they are searching the web when they are searching a database, student thinks they are still on a library web page when they are searching a database, student says "I used something on the internet to look up a book the other day and I can't remember what it was," etc., etc. My question is: should we be doing a better job of teaching our users the difference between web sites and databases? Should we just be doing this in our library instruction classes (e.g. should we reframe our definitions of information literacy to state that the person should be able to distinguish between web sites, databases, and other types of web programs/software), or should are there some creative things we could be doing on our web sites to assist users to do this? Sarah Graham Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian Emerson College Library -----Original Message----- From: Karen Harker To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: 5/17/2002 5:12 PM Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Where else are they using these terms? Will they use them in their chosen field? Will they ever use these terms outside of a library? If not, why teach them? If they use different terms in their fields, why must they translate into library terms? We are not training users to become librarians...we are teaching them how to find the information they need. Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Blake Carver 05/17/02 15:37 PM >>> Well, I guess I'm NOT really advocating for the use (or especially the over use) of jargon, but it could easily be argued we are doing our users a favor (or favour depending on where you are) by teaching them commonly used terms. True the users could care less about such things, but we are in the business of imparting knowledge, and if we can make someone wiser through our site and they didn't even notice (That is there was little or no effort on their part to learn something that could potentially be useful to them in the future), then we've done a good job. The other side is the site should be 100% jargon free, and stick with the lowest common denominator. I'm not sure either approach is completely correct, perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle. At 04:11 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. > >Bill Drew ------------------------------------------ Blake Carver Web Librarian The Ohio State University Libraries See Also: www.LISNews.com From rboulton at linc.lib.il.us Mon May 20 11:59:03 2002 From: rboulton at linc.lib.il.us (Robin Boulton) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our us In-Reply-To: <53FDFC5FCEE2884898A24D89D7EA95D9014170F4@exchs4.uky.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520105736.01e2b200@lincserver1.linc.lib.il.us> Yes, but who would decide what are the standards to which we should all adhere... and how long would it take? ):<) At 07:41 AM 5/20/2002 -0700, Kraemer, Beth wrote: >With all the variations in terminology (and layout) *between* library web >sites, no wonder users are confused! Way back when, you could walk into a >new library for the first time, find the "card catalog" and start searching. >How about a "Standards of Library Web Design" conference... > >******************************************* >Beth Kraemer >Electronic Resources >2-1 William T. Young Library >University of Kentucky > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: N. Lynn Schlatter [mailto:lschlatt@smlnet.sml.lib.la.us] >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 10:20 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our >usability test...") > > >One of the things that has made me envious of the people responding on this >thread is that they seem to be able to place users' needs ahead of >everything else for web design decisions. If only... > >Here's the reality at my place. Our public library web site now has a very >simple (one might even say "austere") gateway. Previously, every time I put >a new link on the front page, four other people wanted their information >there as well. Job Openings, Poem of the Day, Building Program, Board of >Control, etc. For the sake of employment security, I stopped trying to >referee what was really important enough for the front page and kicked them >all off. > >BTW, I keep looking for a "Politics of Web Design" conference and never find >one ;-). > >Lynn Schlatter >Instructional Coordinator >Shreve Memorial Library >www.shreve-lib.org > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On >Behalf Of Robert Kalabus >Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:07 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") > > > > >Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING >EVERYTIME. > >Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to everything at >once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and fast for >experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the inexperienced ones. > >Robert Kalabus >Hay Library >Western Wyoming Community College > > From mfreier at carleton.edu Mon May 20 12:18:03 2002 From: mfreier at carleton.edu (Mary P. (Mollie) Freier) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was In-Reply-To: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164E6@mail.emerson.edu> Message-ID: <604813.3230882283@macmfreier.library.carleton.edu> Good point, Sarah. Our students keep calling databases "search engines." --On Monday, May 20, 2002 8:53 AM -0700 Sarah Graham wrote: > I think we're getting away from Blake's original question about the larger > philosophical issue of whether we use our web sites to teach, rather than > the related issue of whether we should use jargon on our web sites. > > One issue in particular I'm thinking about is the fact that my library's > recent usability test uncovered something that librarians have been > observing for some time - that users are not distinguishing between web > sites, individual web pages, and databases. Examples of such confusion > are: student thinks they are searching the web when they are searching a > database, student thinks they are still on a library web page when they > are searching a database, student says "I used something on the internet > to look up a book the other day and I can't remember what it was," etc., > etc. > > My question is: should we be doing a better job of teaching our users the > difference between web sites and databases? Should we just be doing this > in our library instruction classes (e.g. should we reframe our > definitions of information literacy to state that the person should be > able to distinguish between web sites, databases, and other types of web > programs/software), or should are there some creative things we could be > doing on our web sites to assist users to do this? > > > Sarah Graham > Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian > Emerson College Library > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Harker > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: 5/17/2002 5:12 PM > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was > > Where else are they using these terms? Will they use them in their > chosen field? Will they ever use these terms outside of a library? > > If not, why teach them? If they use different terms in their fields, > why must they translate into library terms? > > We are not training users to become librarians...we are teaching them > how to find the information they need. > > > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-1698 > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>>> Blake Carver 05/17/02 15:37 PM >>> > Well, I guess I'm NOT really advocating for the use (or especially the > over > use) of jargon, but it could easily be argued we are doing our users a > favor (or favour depending on where you are) by teaching them commonly > used > terms. True the users could care less about such things, but we are in > the > business of imparting knowledge, and if we can make someone wiser > through > our site and they didn't even notice (That is there was little or no > effort > on their part to learn something that could potentially be useful to > them > in the future), then we've done a good job. > The other side is the site should be 100% jargon free, and stick with > the > lowest common denominator. > I'm not sure either approach is completely correct, perhaps the answer > lies > somewhere in the middle. > > At 04:11 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: >> I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >> written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >> about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >> different issue entirely. >> >> Bill Drew > > > ------------------------------------------ > Blake Carver > Web Librarian > The Ohio State University Libraries > See Also: > www.LISNews.com > > > > ------------ Mary P. (Mollie) Freier Reference & Instruction Librarian Laurence McKinley Gould Library Carleton College One North College Street Northfield, Minnesota 55057 From westman.2 at osu.edu Mon May 20 12:38:48 2002 From: westman.2 at osu.edu (Stephen R. Westman) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was References: <604813.3230882283@macmfreier.library.carleton.edu> Message-ID: <3CE92698.38268FDF@osu.edu> The problem is that the students are correct. Databases ARE search engines - they just don't search the domain(s) that the students are expecting. One hopes that someday we will be able to have unified search engines that will be able to query a wide variety of content domains - catalogs, Web sites, journals, full text articles. Unfortunately, until that happens, we have to try to design sites that help to explain what are, to the students (to most users who are not librarians), very arbitrary distinctions. Stephen Westman Digital Resources Systems Administrator The Ohio State University Libraries "Mary P. (Mollie) Freier" wrote: > Good point, Sarah. Our students keep calling databases "search engines." > > --On Monday, May 20, 2002 8:53 AM -0700 Sarah Graham > wrote: > > > I think we're getting away from Blake's original question about the larger > > philosophical issue of whether we use our web sites to teach, rather than > > the related issue of whether we should use jargon on our web sites. > > > > One issue in particular I'm thinking about is the fact that my library's > > recent usability test uncovered something that librarians have been > > observing for some time - that users are not distinguishing between web > > sites, individual web pages, and databases. Examples of such confusion > > are: student thinks they are searching the web when they are searching a > > database, student thinks they are still on a library web page when they > > are searching a database, student says "I used something on the internet > > to look up a book the other day and I can't remember what it was," etc., > > etc. > > > > My question is: should we be doing a better job of teaching our users the > > difference between web sites and databases? Should we just be doing this > > in our library instruction classes (e.g. should we reframe our > > definitions of information literacy to state that the person should be > > able to distinguish between web sites, databases, and other types of web > > programs/software), or should are there some creative things we could be > > doing on our web sites to assist users to do this? > > > > > > Sarah Graham > > Coordinator of Web Development/Reference Librarian > > Emerson College Library > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Karen Harker > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Sent: 5/17/2002 5:12 PM > > Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was > > > > Where else are they using these terms? Will they use them in their > > chosen field? Will they ever use these terms outside of a library? > > > > If not, why teach them? If they use different terms in their fields, > > why must they translate into library terms? > > > > We are not training users to become librarians...we are teaching them > > how to find the information they need. > > > > > > > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > > UT Southwestern Medical Library > > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > > 214-648-1698 > > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ > >>>> Blake Carver 05/17/02 15:37 PM >>> > > Well, I guess I'm NOT really advocating for the use (or especially the > > over > > use) of jargon, but it could easily be argued we are doing our users a > > favor (or favour depending on where you are) by teaching them commonly > > used > > terms. True the users could care less about such things, but we are in > > the > > business of imparting knowledge, and if we can make someone wiser > > through > > our site and they didn't even notice (That is there was little or no > > effort > > on their part to learn something that could potentially be useful to > > them > > in the future), then we've done a good job. > > The other side is the site should be 100% jargon free, and stick with > > the > > lowest common denominator. > > I'm not sure either approach is completely correct, perhaps the answer > > lies > > somewhere in the middle. > > > > At 04:11 PM 5/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >> I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon > >> written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less > >> about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a > >> different issue entirely. > >> > >> Bill Drew > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Blake Carver > > Web Librarian > > The Ohio State University Libraries > > See Also: > > www.LISNews.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > Mary P. (Mollie) Freier > Reference & Instruction Librarian > Laurence McKinley Gould Library > Carleton College > One North College Street > Northfield, Minnesota 55057 From kraemer at email.uky.edu Mon May 20 12:56:18 2002 From: kraemer at email.uky.edu (Kraemer, Beth) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our Message-ID: <53FDFC5FCEE2884898A24D89D7EA95D9014170F6@exchs4.uky.edu> Well, I don't think such standards could be hard and fast and I don't think anyone should be hung by their thumbs for not adhering! But standards are emerging (e.g., logo in top left) and it might be possible to give the process a bump through some coordinated effort. Standards could even be by logical groupings of libraries (e.g., ARL guidelines) or consortia, which might have more homogenous users and materials. -Beth -----Original Message----- From: Robin Boulton [mailto:rboulton@linc.lib.il.us] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our Yes, but who would decide what are the standards to which we should all adhere... and how long would it take? ):<) At 07:41 AM 5/20/2002 -0700, Kraemer, Beth wrote: >With all the variations in terminology (and layout) *between* library >web sites, no wonder users are confused! Way back when, you could walk >into a new library for the first time, find the "card catalog" and >start searching. How about a "Standards of Library Web Design" >conference... > >******************************************* >Beth Kraemer >Electronic Resources >2-1 William T. Young Library >University of Kentucky > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: N. Lynn Schlatter [mailto:lschlatt@smlnet.sml.lib.la.us] >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 10:20 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our >usability test...") > > >One of the things that has made me envious of the people responding on >this thread is that they seem to be able to place users' needs ahead of >everything else for web design decisions. If only... > >Here's the reality at my place. Our public library web site now has a >very simple (one might even say "austere") gateway. Previously, every >time I put a new link on the front page, four other people wanted their >information there as well. Job Openings, Poem of the Day, Building >Program, Board of Control, etc. For the sake of employment security, I >stopped trying to referee what was really important enough for the >front page and kicked them all off. > >BTW, I keep looking for a "Politics of Web Design" conference and never >find one ;-). > >Lynn Schlatter >Instructional Coordinator >Shreve Memorial Library >www.shreve-lib.org > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: web4lib@webjunction.org >[mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On >Behalf Of Robert Kalabus >Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 2:07 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") > > > > >Maybe that could be an advertising campaign: SCROLLING BEATS CLICKING >EVERYTIME. > >Personally, I hate gateway pages and prefer to have access to >everything at once. Web sites should be designed to be convenient and >fast for experienced users as well as explanatory enough for the >inexperienced ones. > >Robert Kalabus >Hay Library >Western Wyoming Community College > > From rich at richardwiggins.com Mon May 20 13:32:53 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? Message-ID: <20020520103253.28425.h016.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From rich at richardwiggins.com Mon May 20 13:43:36 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:56 2005 Subject: Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? (ps Google) Message-ID: <20020520104342.28890.h012.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Greetings from Las Vegas, where my wife is attending an OCLC-sponsored training event. Just now I discovered the airy and lovely Information Commons at UNLV, which it turns out is very guest-friendly: -- Just sign up at the desk and they'll give you guest Internet access. -- Just go to an automated machine and you can get a card that gives printing rights at 2 pennies a page. Print at will, and go to a print station, plug your card in, click to print your jobs. Works great. -- And friendly folks are there to help in both processes. Here's my question: how many university libraries make it so easy for random guests to do these things? (A staff member told me that public access to surfing and printing is a commonly-used service.) What tools do you use to make it happen? /rich (off to the Star Trek Experience) PS -- Google news re Dilbert: Dear Google Friends, If you haven't been to Google yet today, come check out our homepage: It's all about Dilbert. Starting today, Scott Adams -- known to cube-dwellers everywhere as Dilbert's creator -- will have his way with our logo for an entire week, submitting our brand to the tender mercies of his crack team of management consultants. Cartoonist, MBA, and certified hypnotist Adams has made his mark mocking bosses, marketing plans, performance reviews, and other workplace afflictions in 2,000 newspapers, 65 countries, and 25 languages. We're sure he'll meet or exceed his goals at Google too. To find out, come to: http://www.google.com/ We look forward to your visit and wish you the best. The Google Team Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From sievingp at ors.od.nih.gov Mon May 20 13:51:42 2002 From: sievingp at ors.od.nih.gov (Sieving, Pamela (OD/ORS)) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? Message-ID: Three years ago, while visiting Brussels, I was offered equivalent service at the neighborhood branch of the public library. I'm not exactly sure what would have been offered a non-librarian tourist, but when I explained that I'm a librarian, I was given a guest privileges card, and could print pages at a tiny charge/page, handled with a vendacard-like system. Pam Sieving *********************************************************************** Pamela C. Sieving, MA, MS Biomedical Librarian/Informationist National Institutes of Health Library 10 Center Drive msc 1150 room 1L09G Bethesda, Maryland 20892 USA 301 451-5862 phone 301 402-0254 fax pamsieving@nih.gov *********************************************************************** From smcramer at uncg.edu Mon May 20 13:57:10 2002 From: smcramer at uncg.edu (Steve Cramer) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? In-Reply-To: <20020520104342.28890.h012.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> References: <20020520104342.28890.h012.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: No disrespect for UNLV, but their system sounds pretty complicated! Many academic libraries don't require quests to sign in and don't charge for printing. Visitors sit down in front of a pc, surf, print, and walk away when finished. --Steve On Mon, 20 May 2002 10:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Richard Wiggins wrote: > Greetings from Las Vegas, where my wife is attending an OCLC-sponsored > training event. Just now I discovered the airy and lovely Information > Commons at UNLV, which it turns out is very guest-friendly: > > -- Just sign up at the desk and they'll give you guest Internet access. > > -- Just go to an automated machine and you can get a card that gives > printing rights at 2 pennies a page. Print at will, and go to a print > station, plug your card in, click to print your jobs. Works great. > > -- And friendly folks are there to help in both processes. > > Here's my question: how many university libraries make it so easy for random > guests to do these things? (A staff member told me that public access to > surfing and printing is a commonly-used service.) > > What tools do you use to make it happen? > > /rich (off to the Star Trek Experience) > > PS -- Google news re Dilbert: > > Dear Google Friends, > > If you haven't been to Google yet today, come check out our homepage: > It's all about Dilbert. Starting today, Scott Adams -- known to > cube-dwellers everywhere as Dilbert's creator -- will have his way > with our logo for an entire week, submitting our brand to the tender > mercies of his crack team of management consultants. Cartoonist, > MBA, and certified hypnotist Adams has made his mark mocking bosses, > marketing plans, performance reviews, and other workplace afflictions > in 2,000 newspapers, 65 countries, and 25 languages. We're sure he'll > meet or exceed his goals at Google too. To find out, come to: > > http://www.google.com/ > > We look forward to your visit and wish you the best. > > The Google Team > > Richard Wiggins > Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics > rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com > __________________________________________ Steve Cramer Business Librarian University of North Carolina at Greensboro smcramer@uncg.edu 336-256-0346 From lydia.bauer at bms.com Mon May 20 13:57:49 2002 From: lydia.bauer at bms.com (Lydia C Bauer) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Search log usage was: RE: library jargon (was "Our usability test...") References: Message-ID: <3CE9391D.98B39D5@bms.com> Have you considered mapping the terms you uncover in your search logs directly into your thesaurus? I've been doing that for a database of the most commonly searched for websites on our intranet and its been very successful. We use the thesaurus tree for browsing (broad, generic terms), and add in see references for searching (terms taken from the search logs). Is anyone else mining their search logs for index terms? Lydia Bauer Bristol-Myers Squibb Company Knowledge Integration Resources lydia.bauer@bms.com Karen Harker wrote: > > Our current thesaurus for our resources is rather haphazard. Based on our = > search logs, it does not adequately represent what our clients use. But = > we've had to balance precision and specificity with time to make the = > resources available. We will be examining the terms in the near future as = > we implement Encompass. Given that we tend to use terms that are broader = > than the topic of most of our selected sites, I would like to also create = > a system that will map the user's query to the most appropriate term that = > we use (i.e. user enters "diabetes mellitus", sites with the subject = > "Endocrinologic disorders" are pulled). While not very precise, I think = > it would be better for the user than zero hits. > > Some ideas for the future :) > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-1698 > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From jrosenhamer at okccc.edu Mon May 20 14:14:07 2002 From: jrosenhamer at okccc.edu (John Rosenhamer) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? Message-ID: We don't require users to sign in. They can just sit down and go to work. BUT, if they want to print, they have to buy a print card ($1.00 for card and 10 pages) They can add money it they need and our regular "courtesy" patrons do that. If we get a one time user, we (reference) usually sets their pages a printing. We use Pharos to control printing. We give our students a card with 60 pages on it. Each semester they can add 60 more pages. For a community college this usually works well for them. We just want them to think before they print 70 page articles. Finally, we print to both sides, so a 30 page article would be 15 pages. John John H. Rosenhamer Technical Services Librarian Oklahoma City Community College 7777 South May Avenue Oklahoma City, OK 73159 jrosenhamer@okccc.edu (405) 682-1611 ext. 7229 FAX: (405) 682-7585 From drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU Mon May 20 14:08:21 2002 From: drewwe at MORRISVILLE.EDU (Drew, Bill) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? (ps Google) Message-ID: <0611948DE8E4D41192B30004AC4C811B0351569B@mail1.morrisville.edu> We amke it even easier here. Walk-in. Go to an available public computer. Explore using IE and print away. No cost to the individual. Lots of good will for the library and the college. Wilfred (Bill) Drew Associate Librarian, Systems and Reference SUNY Morrisville College Library E-mail: mailto:drewwe@morrisville.edu AOL Instant Messenger:BillDrew4 BillDrew.Net: http://billdrew.net/ Wireless Librarian: http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/wireless/ Not Just Cows:http://people.morrisville.edu/~drewwe/njc/ Library: http://library.morrisville.edu/ SUNYConnect: http://www.sunyconnect.suny.edu/ SUNY Morrisville College: America's Most Wired 2 Year College - 2001, 2000 Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://www.bookcrossing.com/referral/BillDrew From carver.50 at osu.edu Mon May 20 14:19:47 2002 From: carver.50 at osu.edu (Blake Carver) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was In-Reply-To: <3C9EF6ED2D88F14E92C6D7E2D564818DF164E6@mail.emerson.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520141625.01738648@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> >My question is: should we be doing a better job of teaching our users the >difference between web sites and databases? Yes, even though it's a never ending task, and we only reach some very small part of our users. I think it's still a very important part of why we are here. I have always felt education and information literacy are a central part of librarianship. > Should we just be doing this in our library instruction classes (e.g. > should we reframe our definitions of >information literacy to state that the person should be able to distinguish >between web sites, databases, and other types of web programs/software), or >should are there some creative things we could be doing on our web sites to >assist users to do this? I'd say both. They are both very worthy pursuits that will help our users later in life. Reaching them in a classroom, or through the web, or some combination of both is a great approach, not one or the other. -Blake From KevilL at missouri.edu Mon May 20 14:31:03 2002 From: KevilL at missouri.edu (Kevil, L H.) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was Message-ID: <841CE3099991CC419A069EC9684E9BE12605AD@col-mailnode03.col.missouri.edu> Bill, You are on the side of the angels on this issue and are not playing devil's advocate. Ignoring the distinction between jargon and technical vocabulary, I would think that if a library is to be truly user-oriented, this would extend to the language we use to communicate with the public. (The marketing dept is careful to control how the engineering dept communicates with the public - and no one accuses the engineers of deliberate obfuscation.) The library profession is in the midst of creating new technology to serve our users and to that extent rethinking our role in the information chain. It would be a pity if we passed on the opportunity to create new terminology that users can understand readily. My humble tuppence ha'penny. L. Hunter Kevil Collection Development Librarian 176 Elmer Ellis Library University of Missouri-Columbia Columbia, MO 65201 KevilL@missouri.edu 573-884-8760 voice 573-882-6034 facsimile -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dowling [mailto:tdowling@ohiolink.edu] Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was At 04:25 PM 5/17/2002, Drew, Bill wrote: >I am going to play the devil's advocate here. Why should we use jargon >written for librarians by librarians? The users could really care less >about such things. I am not talking about dumbing down. that is a >different issue entirely. To the best of my knowledge, no field has developed jargon just for the sake of obfuscation. Jargon is a technical vocabulary that communicates specific meanings within a specific field. For any example of library jargon you can point to, some librarian will explain why that term is precise and correct, and why more general terminology fails to communicate some aspect of the original term. Perhaps the question to ask is, at what points in the delivery of library services is it necessary for the user to understand our specific terminology? And, if they haven't ever been exposed to that terminology before, how much effort will it be to explain it to them at that point? Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From suekamm at mindspring.com Mon May 20 15:43:21 2002 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: Politics (was library jargon, which was "Our Message-ID: "Kraemer, Beth" wrote: Well, I don't think such standards could be hard and fast and I don't think anyone should be hung by their thumbs for not adhering! But standards are emerging (e.g., logo in top left) and it might be possible to give the process a bump through some coordinated effort. Standards could even be by logical groupings of libraries (e.g., ARL guidelines) or consortia, which might have more homogenous users and materials. -Beth The kinds of standards that could be developed could be similar to those we now have for cataloging. After all, aren't AACR2 and MARC formats standard? -- Your friendly CyberGoddess and ALA Councilor-at-large, Sue Kamm Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 Visit my home page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm email: suekamm@mindspring.com "Good is not good when better is expected." -- Vin Scully From Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu Mon May 20 16:21:00 2002 From: Karen.Harker at UTSouthwestern.edu (Karen Harker) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Search log usage was: RE: library jargon (was"Our usability test...") Message-ID: Interesting that you mentioned this...I was in a class at MLA here in Dallas and thought of that idea myself. In fact, I've got the basic data model sketched out. The only thing is that it would take a significant amount of staff effort up front and then probably a good amount of staff work to maintain it. I think it's a great idea and I only wish I had thought of it first ;) Thanks Karen R. Harker, MLS UT Southwestern Medical Library 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Dallas, TX 75390-9049 214-648-1698 http://www.swmed.edu/library/ >>> Lydia C Bauer 05/20/02 12:58 PM >>> Have you considered mapping the terms you uncover in your search logs directly into your thesaurus? I've been doing that for a database of the most commonly searched for websites on our intranet and its been very successful. We use the thesaurus tree for browsing (broad, generic terms), and add in see references for searching (terms taken from the search logs). Is anyone else mining their search logs for index terms? Lydia Bauer Bristol-Myers Squibb Company Knowledge Integration Resources lydia.bauer@bms.com Karen Harker wrote: > > Our current thesaurus for our resources is rather haphazard. Based on our = > search logs, it does not adequately represent what our clients use. But = > we've had to balance precision and specificity with time to make the = > resources available. We will be examining the terms in the near future as = > we implement Encompass. Given that we tend to use terms that are broader = > than the topic of most of our selected sites, I would like to also create = > a system that will map the user's query to the most appropriate term that = > we use (i.e. user enters "diabetes mellitus", sites with the subject = > "Endocrinologic disorders" are pulled). While not very precise, I think = > it would be better for the user than zero hits. > > Some ideas for the future :) > > Karen R. Harker, MLS > UT Southwestern Medical Library > 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. > Dallas, TX 75390-9049 > 214-648-1698 > http://www.swmed.edu/library/ From dan at riverofdata.com Mon May 20 17:24:56 2002 From: dan at riverofdata.com (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Self-serve prepaid printing for library guests? (ps Google) In-Reply-To: <20020520104342.28890.h012.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> References: <20020520104342.28890.h012.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <489723251.20020520152456@riverofdata.com> Boise State offers free internet access and printing to anyone who walks in the door. There is no login to computers. They're protected with WinSelect and DeepFreeze. They have web access only, with chat, email, and games blocked by a proxy server. Policy says university people get first access to computers, but that is almost never an issue, as we rarely have all computers in use. There is no charge for printing. So far we've found that it would cost dimes to collect nickels for printing. In addition, no other campus agencies are charging (computer labs, etc.), so if we charged we'd just give users further encouragement to avoid the library. We don't filter porn or other possibly objectionable materials. However, the addition of signs to all monitors saying "all computer activity is recorded" seem to have greatly reduced the number of non-university porn surfers. The activity is indeed logged in a proxy server log, but that information has only been used once, in the prosecution of a guy surfing kiddie porn. cheers dan Monday, May 20, 2002, 11:44:55 AM, you wrote: RW> -- And friendly folks are there to help in both processes. RW> Here's my question: how many university libraries make it so easy for random RW> guests to do these things? (A staff member told me that public access to RW> surfing and printing is a commonly-used service.) RW> What tools do you use to make it happen? -- Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! From avi-list at searchtools.com Mon May 20 17:23:58 2002 From: avi-list at searchtools.com (Avi Rappoport) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Search log usage was: RE: library jargon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's not a question of "first" -- not many people are doing it and there's no research on improved search experience that Lydia or I could locate! So there is plenty of scope for you :-) Avi At 1:22 PM -0700 5/20/02, Karen Harker wrote: >Interesting that you mentioned this...I was in a class at MLA here >in Dallas and thought of that idea myself. In fact, I've got the >basic data model sketched out. The only thing is that it would take >a significant amount of staff effort up front and then probably a >good amount of staff work to maintain it. > >I think it's a great idea and I only wish I had thought of it first ;) > >Thanks -- Complete Guide to Search Engines for Web Sites and Intranets From leo at leoklein.com Mon May 20 20:16:32 2002 From: leo at leoklein.com (Leo Robert Klein) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: Update Policy? Message-ID: Colleagues, Does anyone have an update policy that they'd be willing to share with me? We have a number of subject related pages and we're trying to work out an acceptable frequency of updates plus who ultimately is responsible for this kind of work. This need not be limited to subject related pages by the way. In any case, one model that's been proposed is that when something changes -- say the availability of a service, systems staff are to search the library's web site and come up with pages that need to be changed. The pages thus identified for revision would be farmed out to the respective authors. An alternative to this is to rely on the authors themselves to initiate and complete the revisions. I guess, ultimately this is a question of who's responsible for the accuracy of material on the web site. Has this been a consideration elsewhere? I'd like to know. Sincerely, LEO --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leo Robert Klein Library Web Coordinator home ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://leoklein.com office ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://newman.baruch.cuny.edu radio station :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: http://patachon.com/radio --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From library at cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au Mon May 20 22:38:44 2002 From: library at cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au (Vicki Falkland) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:57 2005 Subject: Netscape and the thin black line Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521123844.006913b4@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au> Hi folks, Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across part of a table with the following code: I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions of Netscape, just out of curiosity. Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but newer Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it displays it at full height as if there were text in it. I know that folk here in general say this practice is "not on", that it is not "good design", but I really am curious. A lot of sites still do this. How do they get this "thin black line" to display in Netscape? Or have I missed something entirely??? vicki From rich at richardwiggins.com Tue May 21 03:04:16 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <20020521000418.7542.h023.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Today I tried out Google Answers, their new for-fee human mediated reference service. I asked about relative safety of taking a helicopter tour of the Grand Canyon. I offered $20 for the answer. The question, and answer, appear here: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=17078 The answer I got was extremely well crafted and right on target with cited authorities. Foolow-up comments included more citations and personal experiences. When Gary Price posted news of this service, he speculated about interactions with other virtual reference services. What if a paid Google Answerer does arbitrage with free or for-fee library-based virtual reference services? Here's another question: what if good reference folks sign up in large numbers to be Google Answerers? The Google service gives instant payback in the form of cash for good service. A reference librarian on salary would not enjoy the same incentives, and often has many queries to contend with at once. It would be interesting to anonymously feed the exact question I asked to a variety of reference desks and see if I get the same quality answer. It'd also be interesting to take a bunch of asked-and-answered questions from virtual reference desks and feed them to the Google service at a variety of price points. In any event, I dunno folks, but I think Google is onto something. Oh, and I did find a pretty satisfying answer as about the 3rd hit just by searching Google myself -- first try. :-) /rich Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From info at galwaylibrary.ie Tue May 21 07:40:56 2002 From: info at galwaylibrary.ie (Info Galway Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address Message-ID: <6F274B955A9BD311899A009027DEA655A9997D@galway-primary> Hi, I already have a Microsoft IIS web server for our website. On the Pcs reserved for the Library Catalogue, I intend to specify its IP address as the proxy server and have it serve a home page explaining why this Pc may not be used for browsing the web generally. In the box 'Do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with', I will specify the web address of our library catalogue. Attempts to access sites other than the library catalogue will be met by a homepage explaining why this is not possible. Attempts to access the library catalogue will be unhindered. I think I can do this without having recourse to a proxy server. A web server seems to be sufficient. The only problem is I need to be able to make two home pages available at the same IP address. My plan is to use different port numbers. What is the best way of doing this? Do I need to run two different web server softwares on the same machine? Thanks in advance. Regards John Fitzgibbon Galway Public Library Island House Cathedral Square Galway Ireland http://www.galwaylibrary.ie Phone: 00 353 91 562471 Fax: 00 353 91 565039 From flwilson at infinet.com Tue May 21 08:03:23 2002 From: flwilson at infinet.com (F. Leon Wilson) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] WEB4LIB digest 2624 In-Reply-To: <200205201021.DAA13480@webjunction.org> Message-ID: ok From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Tue May 21 08:19:05 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020521123844.006913b4@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.a u> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020521081242.02a0e540@ohiolink.edu> At 10:40 PM 5/20/2002, Vicki Falkland wrote: >Hi folks, > >Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across part >of a table with the following code: > > > > > >I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions of >Netscape, just out of curiosity. > >Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but newer >Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it displays it >at full height as if there were text in it. If your markup is really entered that way, there *is* text in it. You've got whitespace, in the form of a newline, following the img element. Mozilla renders that space in the appropriate font, with the appropriate height. Closing up the whitespace should help. Needless to say, you get a much finer degree of control using CSS border properties. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From jswift at fplct.org Tue May 21 08:25:43 2002 From: jswift at fplct.org (Jim Swift) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address In-Reply-To: <6F274B955A9BD311899A009027DEA655A9997D@galway-primary> Message-ID: John: If you are running IIS 4.0 or better, you can easily add a virtual site using a different port number. There is no need for multiple web server packages, IIS can handle it. As to the specifics, I don't have an IIS 4 server here, so I cannot give you details on exactly how to do it, just that it is possible and fairly easy. If you have specific questions on how to set it up, please email me off the list and I would be happy to help. Regards, Jim Swift IT Librarian Fairfield Public Library 1080 Old Post Road Fairfield, CT 06430-5996 (203)256-3160 Voice (203)256-3162 Fax jswift@fplct.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Info Galway Library Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address Hi, I already have a Microsoft IIS web server for our website. On the Pcs reserved for the Library Catalogue, I intend to specify its IP address as the proxy server and have it serve a home page explaining why this Pc may not be used for browsing the web generally. In the box 'Do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with', I will specify the web address of our library catalogue. Attempts to access sites other than the library catalogue will be met by a homepage explaining why this is not possible. Attempts to access the library catalogue will be unhindered. I think I can do this without having recourse to a proxy server. A web server seems to be sufficient. The only problem is I need to be able to make two home pages available at the same IP address. My plan is to use different port numbers. What is the best way of doing this? Do I need to run two different web server softwares on the same machine? Thanks in advance. Regards John Fitzgibbon Galway Public Library Island House Cathedral Square Galway Ireland http://www.galwaylibrary.ie Phone: 00 353 91 562471 Fax: 00 353 91 565039 From dkh2 at po.cwru.edu Tue May 21 09:01:07 2002 From: dkh2 at po.cwru.edu (D. Keith Higgs) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008401c200c7$9264d9d0$68601681@digilib> Any HTTPd server worth running should be able to do this. Apache has been able to do this for several years now and continues to do it without the security holes in IIS. Additionally Apache v2.0.36 on Win32 has now been tested head to head for performance against IIS and matched it every step of the way under heavy loads. Alternatively, if your goal is to have a browser specific homepage there are ways you can configure Apache to handle that. D. Keith Higgs Case Western Reserve University Webmaster - University Library Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Jim Swift Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 08:27 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] RE: How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address John: If you are running IIS 4.0 or better, you can easily add a virtual site using a different port number. There is no need for multiple web server packages, IIS can handle it. As to the specifics, I don't have an IIS 4 server here, so I cannot give you details on exactly how to do it, just that it is possible and fairly easy. If you have specific questions on how to set it up, please email me off the list and I would be happy to help. Regards, Jim Swift IT Librarian Fairfield Public Library 1080 Old Post Road Fairfield, CT 06430-5996 (203)256-3160 Voice (203)256-3162 Fax jswift@fplct.org -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org]On Behalf Of Info Galway Library Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] How do I make two home pages available at the same IP address Hi, I already have a Microsoft IIS web server for our website. On the Pcs reserved for the Library Catalogue, I intend to specify its IP address as the proxy server and have it serve a home page explaining why this Pc may not be used for browsing the web generally. In the box 'Do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with', I will specify the web address of our library catalogue. Attempts to access sites other than the library catalogue will be met by a homepage explaining why this is not possible. Attempts to access the library catalogue will be unhindered. I think I can do this without having recourse to a proxy server. A web server seems to be sufficient. The only problem is I need to be able to make two home pages available at the same IP address. My plan is to use different port numbers. What is the best way of doing this? Do I need to run two different web server softwares on the same machine? Thanks in advance. Regards John Fitzgibbon Galway Public Library Island House Cathedral Square Galway Ireland http://www.galwaylibrary.ie Phone: 00 353 91 562471 Fax: 00 353 91 565039 From ugur at cs.brown.edu Tue May 21 09:52:06 2002 From: ugur at cs.brown.edu (Ugur Cetintemel) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Final CFP: Federated Conference 2002 --- DOA'02, ODBASE'02, CoopIS'02 Message-ID: <3CEA5106.FC4D3598@cs.brown.edu> ---- Apologies if you receive this message multiple times ---- Federated Conference 2002 - Final Call For Papers ***** DEADLINE: May 31, 2002 ***** Federated Conference: "The Move to Meaningful Internet Systems and Ubiquitous Computing" 2002 consisting of: - International Symposium on Distributed Objects and Applications DOA'02 - International Conference on Ontologies, Databases and Applications of Semantics ODBASE'02 - International Conference on Cooperative Information Systems CoopIS'02 University of California, Irvine Oct 28 - Nov 1, 2002 http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/fedconf/ SCOPE. The current and future software needs are towards the development of large and complex Intelligent Networked Information Systems, covering a wide range of issues (such as Data and Web Semantics, Distributed Objects, Web Services, Databases, Workflow, Cooperation, Interoperability, Mobility) as required for the deployment of Internet- and Intranet-based systems in organizations and for e-business. This federated event, colocating DOA'02, ODBASE'02, and CoopIS'02, will provide a unique opportunity for researchers and practitioners to understand the recent developments in ubiquitous computing. SOLICITATIONS. Two kinds of submissions are being solicited. Full scientific papers, to be reviewed rigorously by at least three members of one of the Program Committees of the federated event. Relevant practice reports on on-going industrial research projects, case studies, best practices, etc. in the areas covered, mainly from industrial, business and commercial practice, to be selected for relevance and quality by a separate Industry Track Program Committee. Selected scientific papers or practice reports will be published in the scientific conference proceedings or Industry Track proceedings, respectively. The final proceedings will be published by Springer Verlag (Lecture Notes in Computer Science Series). SUBMISSION. Instructions are available at: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/fedconf/submit.html AREAS OF INTEREST. Broad areas of interest include, but are not limited to: DOA'02 * Enabling Technologies * Middleware * Distributed Objects and Applications * Internet Computing * Web Services ODBASE'02 * Design, Tools, and Methodologies * Ontologies * XML Databases * Web Semantics * Semantic Tools CoopIS'02 * Cooperative Information Systems * Interoperation * Workflow Systems * Enterprise Technologies * Agent Technologies IMPORTANT DATES: Paper submission due : May 31, 2002 Acceptance notification : July 15, 2002 Final version due : August 20, 2002 Industry case studies due : July 15, 2002 FEDERATED EVENT CO-CHAIRS: Robert Meersman Zahir Tari Mike Papazoglou meersman@vub.ac.be zahirt@cs.rmit.edu.au mikep@kub.nl DOA'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Rachid Guerraoui Joe Loyall Douglas Schmidt rachid.guerraoui@epfl.ch jloyall@bbn.com schmidt@uci.edu OBBASE'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Karl Aberer Ling Liu karl.aberer@epfl.ch lingliu@cc.gatech.edu CoopIS'02 PROGRAM CHAIRS: Calton Pu Stefano Spaccapietra calton@cc.gatech.edu stefano.spaccapietra@epfl.ch TUTORIAL CHAIR: Vipul Kashyap kashyap@nlm.nih.gov INDUSTRIAL PROGRAM CHAIR: Robert Meersman meersman@vub.ac.be PUBLICITY CHAIR: Ugur Cetintemel ugur@cs.brown.edu From Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org Tue May 21 10:17:05 2002 From: Walt_Crawford at notes.rlg.org (Walt_Crawford@notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Cites & Insights June issue available Message-ID: Cites & Insights:Crawford at Large 2:8 (June 2002) is now available at http://cical.home.att.net This 16-page issue includes: * Bibs & Blather: Seventeen Thousand Conferences (and more) * Feedback: Your Insights (lots of them!) * Tracking the Next Big Thing? * Trends & Quick Takes: five items * The Good Stuff: seven items * The Filtering Follies: COPA, CIPA, CPPA...and CMEPA? * PC Group Reviews: 18 reviews in eight categories. -walt crawford- [Apologies for duplication] From thassing at creighton.edu Tue May 21 12:13:34 2002 From: thassing at creighton.edu (Hassing, Tom) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: VendPrint Message-ID: <000b01c200e2$75415520$07b18693@ad.creighton.edu> Have you had any experience with VendPrint? We're considering changes in our print management/vending solutions. Ideally, we'd like to tie into our Card Services payment system. The interface for our particular system is in development. We may also consider VendPrint's more affordable "Lite" solution that doesn't tie into electronic payment. I searched the "Archive of the Web4Lib Electronic Discussion" and found only one reference to their printing system. The "Library Web Manager's Reference Center" has no mention of the company. http://www.vendprint.com/ Thanks -- Tom Hassing, PC Network Technician Reinert Alumni Memorial Library Creighton University From jacobs at students.uiuc.edu Tue May 21 12:14:51 2002 From: jacobs at students.uiuc.edu (jacobs) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: usability Message-ID: <3CE49162@cricket.lis.uiuc.edu> I've really found this thread to be helpful. Below are some thoughts based on our experience at the Education and Social Science Library at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. > >For instance, undergraduates may require a step-by-step approach to >familiarizing themselves with the various research tools and services >(databases, catalogs, virtual reference services) provided by the library >(e.g. how to use them and what certain library terms mean). On the other >hand, faculty already know the grindstone and would prefer one-click >access to these already-familiar tools versus a guided approach. > We did usability studies and focus groups for our web site redesign and found the opposite to be true of faculty. (http://www.library.uiuc.edu/edx). We were dismayed to find that most of the faculty bookmarked specific items (catalog, favorite database...) and had no idea what tools were available on our site. Several were pleasantly surprised that we had in-depth, subject-focused research guides. Some continued to visit our interlibrary loan dept. to request materials, not realizing that ILL has had an online form to submit requests for at least 3 years or that one could self-request materials through either OCLC's WorldCat database or our Big-Ten library consortium (CIC-VEL). > >This leads designers to the next critical step in the design process: Task >Analysis. Task analysis involves analyzing the procedures performed for an We found task analysis to be very useful, but also somewhat inconclusive. Our undergrad test subjects faired better at navigating our prototype than did our "seasoned" faculty. I think the primary reason for this is age-related. Many of our undergrads have grown up in a web environment while many of our faculty honed their research skills in pre-web times. The faculty are thus more comfortable with going to staff for their various needs rather than going online to find the necessary information. User skills varied as did user preferences. For example, some users liked a "quick links" menu while others did not. Some liked our drop-down menus, while others completely ignored them. These preferences seemed to be more based on personality rather than research- or technical skill. The bottom line is that one can not necessarily assume that faculty are research-savvy and knowledgeable about the library while undergrads are not or base their site design on these assumptions. This is not necessarily the case. Many of the electronic tools that librarians take for granted are still relatively recent additions and are hence unknown to many users regardless of academic level. It is my opinion that preferences and abilities today will be very different in 5 years as will our abilities to design electronic tools, gateways and websites. Web site maintenance and design is an heuristic exercise. Our site can't be everything to everyone, but it can be intuitive and easy to use for a majority of our users and can offer several alternative routes to tools and information. We will continue to redesign our site and will continue to query our users for their opinions. Regards, James Jacobs James R. Jacobs Pre-doc Fellow / Graduate Reference Assistant Education & Social Science Library University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign Home: 303B1 Paddock Drive Savoy, IL 61874 (217)359-9283 jacobs@uiuc.edu http://radicallibrarian.org (\ {|||8- (/ ********************************************************** "Librarians, Dusty, possess a vast store of politeness. These are people who get asked regularly the dumbest questions on God's green earth. These people tolerate every kind of crank and eccentric and mouth-breather there is." --Garrison Keillor, "Lives of the Cowboys" ********************************************************** "But to live outside the law you must be honest." R.Zimmerman ********************************************************** From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Tue May 21 12:49:05 2002 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Information Literacy (was Jargon...which was In-Reply-To: <3CE49162@cricket.lis.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: >should we be doing a better job of teaching our users the >difference between web sites and databases? I continue to believe that we are doing a disservice to our users by misusing the term "databases" in this way. Many web sites are in fact databases, as is the "patron database" maintained in your library's circ system. If we're serious about correct use of technical vocabularies, then we need to be self-critical. JQ Johnson Office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator mailto:jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon phone: 1-541-346-1746; -3485 fax Eugene, OR 97403-1299 http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jqj/ From junus at mail.lib.msu.edu Tue May 21 13:57:10 2002 From: junus at mail.lib.msu.edu (Junus, Ranti) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Site Map, Site Index Message-ID: <9ADF6F1B8F159448A143DC39FBA9F1EC6479A0@MAINLIB8.lib.msu.edu> Hallo All, I am wondering if any libraries employing Site Map and/or Site Index for their library web site? Or whether a Site Map or Site Index (or both) is useful or not for Library web site? Any examples? Thanks, ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48823, USA +1.517.353.8587 From gprice at gwu.edu Tue May 21 15:42:39 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: More New "Stuff" From Google Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521154215.00a93550@imap.gwu.edu> Another day and something new from Google. It never seems to stop or slow down. Today the folks at the Googleplex introduced a page of "experimental" toys for all of us to demo. Welcome to Google Labs! A new site that's a "playground" for Google technologies in development. Have fun! http://labs.google.com/ The site now offers demos of the following concepts: 1) Google Glossary Find acronyms, new words, etc. 2) Google Sets "automatically creates related lists of items" 3) Google by Phone "navigate search results quickly and easily using only a keyboard." 4) Google Keyboard Shortcuts Also: Word From Googleplex that a few enhancements to the Google Toolbar are also available. You can find them by going to "Toolbar Options" from the Toolbar pull-down menu. Then, look for the experimental features link. I needed to re-install the toolbar to access the experimental features. The 'Experimental Features" are: - Combined Search button: providing quick and easy access to all Google search services from one, compact button. ****Browser control: suppresses pop-up windows that are triggered when users leave a web site. - Navigation: enabling users to quickly navigate between websites listed in a Google search results page, using intuitive Next and Previous buttons. cheers, gary Looking for More News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.freepint.com Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gary@freepint.com From Jeff.Kuntzman at UCHSC.edu Tue May 21 16:14:57 2002 From: Jeff.Kuntzman at UCHSC.edu (Jeff.Kuntzman@UCHSC.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: mining search logs for index terms Message-ID: <6B2CA96321F8D211929E00805FA7F1BB07B6C539@ex2.uchsc.edu> Although our efforts have not been very scientific, we regularly scan our search logs and have added several web pages based on that. One example: "Renew books" is an instance of a constantly recurring search term - we now have a web page on our library web site about renewing books. (Like many libraries the actual process of book renewal takes place on the webpac, not the web site.) Jeff Kuntzman Denison Memorial Library University of Colorado Health Sciences Center >Have you considered mapping the terms you uncover in your >search logs directly into your thesaurus? I've been doing >that for a database of the most commonly searched for websites >on our intranet and its been very successful. We use the thesaurus >tree for browsing (broad, generic terms), and add in see references >for searching (terms taken from the search logs). Is anyone else >mining their search logs for index terms? > Lydia Bauer Bristol-Myers Squibb Company Knowledge >Integration Resources lydia.bauer@bms.com From sdunlap at ggu.edu Tue May 21 16:06:58 2002 From: sdunlap at ggu.edu (Steven Dunlap) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Site Map, Site Index Message-ID: When I was Regional Campus/Distance Ed librarian I had to create a site map for the pages I did because our CyberCampus interface opened pages in new windows that did not have browser navigation buttons (no back button). I had a relatively small number of pages and created a site-map page for them and a link to the site map page from all the pages except the searching tutorials. http://internet.ggu.edu/university_library/ustudy/map.html Steven Dunlap sad@ggu.edu Head, Technical Services and Systems University Library - Golden Gate University San Francisco, California >>> "Junus, Ranti" 05/21/02 11:01AM >>> Hallo All, I am wondering if any libraries employing Site Map and/or Site Index for their library web site? Or whether a Site Map or Site Index (or both) is useful or not for Library web site? Any examples? Thanks, ranti. -- Ranti Junus - Systems 100 Main Library Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48823, USA +1.517.353.8587 ********************************************************************* Due to deletion of content types excluded from this list by policy, this multipart message was reduced to a single part, and from there to a plain text message. ********************************************************************* From mwhang at hawaii.edu Tue May 21 16:38:58 2002 From: mwhang at hawaii.edu (Michael) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] usability In-Reply-To: <3CE49162@cricket.lis.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing your light summary, but I think you failed to see the point that I tried to convey from my original post. Below is a recap. I shared with the list two critical steps in developing a website from both the user's perspective and management's perspective. These two steps were creating user profiles and conducting task analyses which take place before conducting a test for ease-of-use, learnability, effectiveness, and efficiency of the prototype--a usability test. USER'S PERSPECIVE ----------------- Granted that you have already conducted tests on the existing site and gathered valuable data from it, the user profiles and tasks analyses enable you to build a foundation for the new design because you know who the users are and what types of activities and interactions they might perform once they arrive. Once you identify the tasks and procedures, you can then further decompose associated sub-tasks, further exploding those prerequisites and information needed to complete a task. This will help you layout the page and build the site's architecture and navigation systems. Then you test and further refine what you already know or add to the design what you've just learned. Therefore user profiles and task analyses will help you create a flexible blueprint for your site's success based on factual data on who your users are and how they go about doing their work (i.e. work habits, personal preferences). Then you test your solution. And then you refine. And then you test again iteratively. MANAGEMENT'S PERSPECTIVE ------------------------ User profiles and task analyses benefits managment because you've already mapped out the procedures required to complete a task. You know exactly what users need to do, where to go, and how to do it. It futher reinforces the library's goals and objectives for developing a website--you know the site's functionality. Michael ================================== On Tue, 21 May 2002, jacobs wrote: > I've really found this thread to be helpful. Below are some thoughts based on > our experience at the Education and Social Science Library at the University > of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. > > > > >For instance, undergraduates may require a step-by-step approach to > >familiarizing themselves with the various research tools and services > >(databases, catalogs, virtual reference services) provided by the library > >(e.g. how to use them and what certain library terms mean). On the other > >hand, faculty already know the grindstone and would prefer one-click > >access to these already-familiar tools versus a guided approach. > > > > We did usability studies and focus groups for our web site redesign and found > the opposite to be true of faculty. (http://www.library.uiuc.edu/edx). We were > dismayed to find that most of the faculty bookmarked specific items (catalog, > favorite database...) and had no idea what tools were available on our site. > Several were pleasantly surprised that we had in-depth, subject-focused > research guides. Some continued to visit our interlibrary loan dept. to > request materials, not realizing that ILL has had an online form to submit > requests for at least 3 years or that one could self-request materials through > either OCLC's WorldCat database or our Big-Ten library consortium (CIC-VEL). > > > > >This leads designers to the next critical step in the design process: Task > >Analysis. Task analysis involves analyzing the procedures performed for an > > We found task analysis to be very useful, but also somewhat inconclusive. Our > undergrad test subjects faired better at navigating our prototype than did our > "seasoned" faculty. I think the primary reason for this is age-related. Many > of our undergrads have grown up in a web environment while many of our faculty > honed their research skills in pre-web times. The faculty are thus more > comfortable with going to staff for their various needs rather than going > online to find the necessary information. User skills varied as did user > preferences. For example, some users liked a "quick links" menu while others > did not. Some liked our drop-down menus, while others completely ignored them. > These preferences seemed to be more based on personality rather than research- > or technical skill. > > The bottom line is that one can not necessarily assume that faculty are > research-savvy and knowledgeable about the library while undergrads are not or > base their site design on these assumptions. This is not necessarily the case. > Many of the electronic tools that librarians take for granted are still > relatively recent additions and are hence unknown to many users regardless of > academic level. It is my opinion that preferences and abilities today will be > very different in 5 years as will our abilities to design electronic tools, > gateways and websites. Web site maintenance and design is an heuristic > exercise. Our site can't be everything to everyone, but it can be intuitive > and easy to use for a majority of our users and can offer several alternative > routes to tools and information. We will continue to redesign our site and > will continue to query our users for their opinions. > > Regards, > > James Jacobs > > James R. Jacobs > Pre-doc Fellow / Graduate Reference Assistant > Education & Social Science Library > University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign > Home: 303B1 Paddock Drive > Savoy, IL 61874 > (217)359-9283 > jacobs@uiuc.edu > http://radicallibrarian.org > (\ > {|||8- > (/ > > ********************************************************** > "Librarians, Dusty, possess a vast store of politeness. > These are people who get asked regularly the dumbest > questions on God's green earth. These people tolerate > every kind of crank and eccentric and mouth-breather > there is." > --Garrison Keillor, "Lives of the Cowboys" > ********************************************************** > "But to live outside the law you must be honest." R.Zimmerman > ********************************************************** > > > From stoub at yahoo.com Tue May 21 23:43:36 2002 From: stoub at yahoo.com (Steve Toub) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: Experience with Sawmill (web log analysis tool) Message-ID: <007401c20142$da6de660$d4e17c42@stoub> Hi-- I work at a library that has several different web servers for different projects and we're trying to get all our web logs organized as well as choose a standard software package for web log analysis and reporting. We've been playing with a trial version of Sawmill (http://www.sawmill.net/) and it seems very flexible. Has anyone had any bad experiences with Sawmill or know of any limitations compared to the competition (e.g, WebTrends, Funnel Web)? Thanks in advance! --SET Steve Toub From library at cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au Tue May 21 23:52:27 2002 From: library at cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au (Vicki Falkland) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line In-Reply-To: <003901c200d5$a008cac0$d431500a@hewlettspcps5t> References: <3.0.1.32.20020521123844.006913b4@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au> <3.0.1.32.20020521153703.006bf2ec@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020522135227.006db808@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au> reply to the list instead of individuals due to numerous personal responses. i've become intrigued by this little bit of code. i've tried all suggestions: removed white space, put code all on one line, added height="1" to , added
after ... a bunch of things (oh, and obviously i've included bgcolor which i neglected to include that in my original question). people keep telling "i do and it works for me". well, i paste their code into MY editor, display it in NS6, and i get a fat black line. older Netscapes display it fine, IE displays it fine. whats up with NS6 ?? or am i STILL missing something?? v. >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Vicki Falkland" >> >To: "Multiple recipients of list" >> >Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:40 PM >> >Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line >> > >> > >> >> Hi folks, >> >> >> >> Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across >part >> >> of a table with the following code: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions >of >> >> Netscape, just out of curiosity. >> >> >> >> Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but >> >newer >> >> Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it >displays >> >it >> >> at full height as if there were text in it. >> >> >> >> I know that folk here in general say this practice is "not on", that it >is >> >> not "good design", but I really am curious. A lot of sites still do >this. >> >> How do they get this "thin black line" to display in Netscape? >> >> >> >> Or have I missed something entirely??? >> >> >> >> vicki >> > >> > >> > >> > > > From wwines at tln.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 01:13:48 2002 From: wwines at tln.lib.mi.us (William M. Wines) Date: Wed May 18 14:39:58 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <20020521000418.7542.h023.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Richard Wiggins wrote: > In any event, I dunno folks, but I think Google is onto something. Well, maybe, but in terms of cost to the end-user, in nearly all cases, a consultation with a reference librarian is free; and I'm not sure how many people really care if they get footnotes and citations as long as they get an answer to their question along with a single credible and reliable (and cited) source. What Google is on to (and I'm not dissing them for this by any means) is another slick way to extract money from people who have money to spend. I don't think it's all that important for public libraries to spend a lot of time worrying about how they can compete with private enterprise. OTOH, I think it is very important to spend more time thinking about how we can reach out to people who don't have $20 to spend finding out about helipcopter sorties over the Grand Canyon. ----------------------------- Bill Wines Assistant Director Walled Lake City Library 1499 E. West Maple Rd. Walled Lake, MI 48390 (248) 624-3772 http://walled-lake.lib.mi.us ----------------------------- From rich at richardwiggins.com Wed May 22 05:43:57 2002 From: rich at richardwiggins.com (Richard Wiggins) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <20020522024400.4528.h006.c001.wm@mail.richardwiggins.com.criticalpath.net> Ouch -- your reaction surprises me a bit... Perhaps you are reading more into my posting than is there. For years now we have heard how the Web brings disintermediation -- people won't need human assistance for their information needs. Then we've heard that people will pay for quality information via the Web -- but with a few notable exceptions, that turns out not to be true. Predating the Web, we've always had some small consulting firms that do by-the-sip paid searches for corporate and legal customers. Those folks co-exist with library reference services. In fact many of them exploit reference resources at research libraries. What Google is trying to create, I think, is Ebay for quality searching. Not everyone is good at searching. Some people are. Matching people with good answers may be worth money to people. You can dismiss the news by trivializing my one example search, but that misses the point. (I did not fall off the search turnip truck, by the way; I was testing the service.) You might want to take a look at other recent searches done on the service, and what people were willing to pay: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=currentquestions Any enterprise ignores what the Web enables at their peril. Ask travel agents. /rich On Tue, 21 May 2002, "William M. Wines" wrote > > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Richard Wiggins wrote: > > > In any event, I dunno folks, but I think Google is onto something. > > Well, maybe, but in terms of cost to the end-user, in nearly all cases, a > consultation with a reference librarian is free; and I'm not sure how many > people really care if they get footnotes and citations as long as they get > an answer to their question along with a single credible and reliable (and > cited) source. > > What Google is on to (and I'm not dissing them for this by any means) is > another slick way to extract money from people who have money to spend. I > don't think it's all that important for public libraries to spend a lot of > time worrying about how they can compete with private enterprise. OTOH, I > think it is very important to spend more time thinking about how we can > reach out to people who don't have $20 to spend finding out about > helipcopter sorties over the Grand Canyon. > > ----------------------------- > Bill Wines > Assistant Director > Walled Lake City Library > 1499 E. West Maple Rd. > Walled Lake, MI 48390 > (248) 624-3772 > http://walled-lake.lib.mi.us > ----------------------------- Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From row3 at lehigh.edu Wed May 22 08:19:43 2002 From: row3 at lehigh.edu (Rob Weidman) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape and the thin black line References: <3.0.1.32.20020522135227.006db808@cryptic.rch.unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <3CEB8CDF.7080900@lehigh.edu> These posts made me check a site I had worked on a while ago - I used tables in this fashion (probably much too heavily) to create a curved navigation bar so wanted to make sure it looked o.k. in netscape 6 well, what would you know: it has similar problems in netscape 6 as vicki describes, though it has always looked fine in IE and earlier netscape I used the xhtml transitional dtd for the site, and I have found that the page displays correctly in netscape 6 as soon as I take out the xhtml doctype declaration: vicki - is your page xhtml? could anyone tell me why netscape 6 does this - is this a correct implementation of the xhtml dtd? - and what the best solution would be. thanks -rob- Rob Weidman Cataloging Librarian Lehigh University Library & Technology Services Vicki Falkland wrote: > reply to the list instead of individuals due to numerous personal responses. > > i've become intrigued by this little bit of code. > > i've tried all suggestions: removed white space, put code all on one line, > added height="1" to , added
after ... a bunch of things (oh, > and obviously i've included bgcolor which i neglected to include that in my > original question). > people keep telling "i do and it works for me". well, i paste their > code into MY editor, display it in NS6, and i get a fat black line. > older Netscapes display it fine, IE displays it fine. > whats up with NS6 ?? > or am i STILL missing something?? > > v. > > > >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Vicki Falkland" >>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" >>>>Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:40 PM >>>>Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi folks, >>>>> >>>>>Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across >>>>> >>part >> >>>>>of a table with the following code: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions >>>>> >>of >> >>>>>Netscape, just out of curiosity. >>>>> >>>>>Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but >>>>> >>>>newer >>>> >>>>>Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it >>>>> >>displays >> >>>>it >>>> >>>>>at full height as if there were text in it. >>>>> >>>>>I know that folk here in general say this practice is "not on", that it >>>>> >>is >> >>>>>not "good design", but I really am curious. A lot of sites still do >>>>> >>this. >> >>>>>How do they get this "thin black line" to display in Netscape? >>>>> >>>>>Or have I missed something entirely??? >>>>> >>>>>vicki >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> From gwasdin at nypl.org Wed May 22 08:30:39 2002 From: gwasdin at nypl.org (gwasdin@nypl.org) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: Hmmm....perhaps. But haven't you noticed that more and more people who may not necessarily "have" the money to spend, are spending it anyway on things they can get for free? I think we have much to learn from places like Google (and on a similar level, Amazon/Barnes and Noble). Why ARE people paying them money for things they can get for free at a library? Is it that they do not know? Or is it the convenience factor? What could we do differently that would let people know what we can do here at a library? How could we make ourselves more convenient to compete? (24/7 reference for instance) I do agree that we will always (maybe?) have a place in serving those who cannot afford to pay, but I also think we have to worry about keeping those patrons who CAN pay....we need them both, in large numbers! Some would argue that we need those who can pay even more so, as they are more likely to be the ones who control, or have a voice in, public funding and support. Do I have a point? Not sure...I guess that I feel we just can't continue to use the "but we're free" argument. being free is not enough to keep them coming. Gary Gary A. Wasdin Training Coordinator Celeste Bartos Education Center Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library New York, NY 10018-2788 212-930-9284 gwasdin@nypl.org Visit us online at www.nypl.org/humanities/southcourt "William M. Wines" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Sent by: web4lib@sunsite.b erkeley.edu 05/22/2002 01:14 AM Please respond to wwines On Tue, 21 May 2002, Richard Wiggins wrote: > In any event, I dunno folks, but I think Google is onto something. Well, maybe, but in terms of cost to the end-user, in nearly all cases, a consultation with a reference librarian is free; and I'm not sure how many people really care if they get footnotes and citations as long as they get an answer to their question along with a single credible and reliable (and cited) source. What Google is on to (and I'm not dissing them for this by any means) is another slick way to extract money from people who have money to spend. I don't think it's all that important for public libraries to spend a lot of time worrying about how they can compete with private enterprise. OTOH, I think it is very important to spend more time thinking about how we can reach out to people who don't have $20 to spend finding out about helipcopter sorties over the Grand Canyon. ----------------------------- Bill Wines Assistant Director Walled Lake City Library 1499 E. West Maple Rd. Walled Lake, MI 48390 (248) 624-3772 http://walled-lake.lib.mi.us ----------------------------- From davidcj at MIT.EDU Wed May 22 08:44:54 2002 From: davidcj at MIT.EDU (David Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: Imaging Software question Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020522084358.0171d598@po10.mit.edu> >X-Sender: whatsa@hesiod (Unverified) >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:39:35 -0400 >To: itpartners@mit.edu >From: Nathan Matta >Subject: Imaging Software > >What, if any, PC imaging software have you all decided to go with, and >why? We're currently using an older version of Imagecast and we're >looking to upgrade. I'm specifically considering PowerQueset DeployCenter >5 as an alternative. Does anyone have experience with DeployCenter (or >Drive Image Pro)? > >Nathan >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Nathan Matta >Library Technology Consultant >Massachusetts Institute of Technology >(617) 258-5009 >whatsa@mit.edu >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 09:26:30 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Imaging Software question References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020522084358.0171d598@po10.mit.edu> Message-ID: <3CEB9C86.DC97F122@tln.lib.mi.us> I've only used the ImageCenter component of DeployCenter. It's the replacement for DriveImage Pro. I used it to create and deploy about a half-dozen different images for a Windows2000 deployment for online OPACs and public Internet computers.. Once I worked out a couple of detail issues, I found it very easy to use and it was very quick in creating and copying images. It was well worth the money in terms of time saved in deploying these new computers. Plus, the ease of use and the availabity of the images ensures that other IS staff can rebuild these computers when I'm not available. It has a ton of other tools but I haven't had a chance to work with those yet so I can't comment on their utility. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI David Johnson wrote: > >X-Sender: whatsa@hesiod (Unverified) > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 > >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:39:35 -0400 > >To: itpartners@mit.edu > >From: Nathan Matta > >Subject: Imaging Software > > > >What, if any, PC imaging software have you all decided to go with, and > >why? We're currently using an older version of Imagecast and we're > >looking to upgrade. I'm specifically considering PowerQueset DeployCenter > >5 as an alternative. Does anyone have experience with DeployCenter (or > >Drive Image Pro)? > > > >Nathan > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Nathan Matta > >Library Technology Consultant > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology > >(617) 258-5009 > >whatsa@mit.edu > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 09:34:07 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape and the thin black line References: <3CEB8CDF.7080900@lehigh.edu> Message-ID: <3CEB9E4F.2E9D1EC9@tln.lib.mi.us> I thought that this article had been mentioned here before but maybe not: http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/articles/img-table/ Eric Meyer explains why this is occuring in Mozilla-based browsers and how to correct the problem. From the article: "There is one obvious fix-- stop creating designs that are dependent on tables and sliced up or single-pixel images-- but it's not terribly practical for many designers, and it sure doesn't help fix old designs that are suddenly blowing apart in recent browsers. There's another obvious fix, which is to make sure your document doesn't trigger the "strict" rendering mode. You can do this by using an HTML Transitional DOCTYPE with no URL, or not having a DOCTYPE at all." I would encourage anyone who works on web sites to read the entire article to understand how new browsers are affecting how we design our web sites.. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI Rob Weidman wrote: > These posts made me check a site I had worked on a while ago - I used > tables in this fashion (probably much too heavily) to create a curved > navigation bar so wanted to make sure it looked o.k. in netscape 6 > > well, what would you know: it has similar problems in netscape 6 as > vicki describes, though it has always looked fine in IE and earlier netscape > > I used the xhtml transitional dtd for the site, and I have found that > the page displays correctly in netscape 6 as soon as I take out the > xhtml doctype declaration: vicki - is your page xhtml? > > could anyone tell me why netscape 6 does this - is this a correct > implementation of the xhtml dtd? - and what the best solution would be. > > thanks > > -rob- > > Rob Weidman > Cataloging Librarian > Lehigh University > Library & Technology Services > > Vicki Falkland wrote: > > > reply to the list instead of individuals due to numerous personal responses. > > > > i've become intrigued by this little bit of code. > > > > i've tried all suggestions: removed white space, put code all on one line, > > added height="1" to , added
after ... a bunch of things (oh, > > and obviously i've included bgcolor which i neglected to include that in my > > original question). > > people keep telling "i do and it works for me". well, i paste their > > code into MY editor, display it in NS6, and i get a fat black line. > > older Netscapes display it fine, IE displays it fine. > > whats up with NS6 ?? > > or am i STILL missing something?? > > > > v. > > > > > > > >>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>From: "Vicki Falkland" > >>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" > >>>>Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:40 PM > >>>>Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Hi folks, > >>>>> > >>>>>Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across > >>>>> > >>part > >> > >>>>>of a table with the following code: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions > >>>>> > >>of > >> > >>>>>Netscape, just out of curiosity. > >>>>> > >>>>>Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but > >>>>> > >>>>newer > >>>> > >>>>>Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it > >>>>> > >>displays > >> > >>>>it > >>>> > >>>>>at full height as if there were text in it. > >>>>> > >>>>>I know that folk here in general say this practice is "not on", that it > >>>>> > >>is > >> > >>>>>not "good design", but I really am curious. A lot of sites still do > >>>>> > >>this. > >> > >>>>>How do they get this "thin black line" to display in Netscape? > >>>>> > >>>>>Or have I missed something entirely??? > >>>>> > >>>>>vicki > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> From row3 at lehigh.edu Wed May 22 09:57:07 2002 From: row3 at lehigh.edu (Rob Weidman) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape and the thin black line References: <3CEB9E4F.2E9D1EC9@tln.lib.mi.us> Message-ID: <3CEBA3B3.2070709@lehigh.edu> Thanks Andrew, I had not seen this article before (have not been on this list for too long) and it answers all of my questions (and hopefully vicki's too)... thanks so much for your help -rob- Andrew Mutch wrote: > I thought that this article had been mentioned here before but maybe not: > > http://developer.netscape.com/evangelism/docs/articles/img-table/ > > Eric Meyer explains why this is occuring in Mozilla-based browsers and how to > correct the problem. From the article: > > "There is one obvious fix-- stop creating designs that are dependent on tables and > sliced up or single-pixel images-- but it's not terribly practical for many > designers, and it sure doesn't help fix old designs that are suddenly blowing > apart in recent browsers. There's another obvious fix, which is to make sure your > document doesn't trigger the "strict" rendering mode. You can do this by using an > HTML Transitional DOCTYPE with no URL, or not having a DOCTYPE at all." > > I would encourage anyone who works on web sites to read the entire article to > understand how new browsers are affecting how we design our web sites.. > > Andrew Mutch > Library Systems Technician > Waterford Township Public Library > Waterford, MI > > Rob Weidman wrote: > > >>These posts made me check a site I had worked on a while ago - I used >>tables in this fashion (probably much too heavily) to create a curved >>navigation bar so wanted to make sure it looked o.k. in netscape 6 >> >>well, what would you know: it has similar problems in netscape 6 as >>vicki describes, though it has always looked fine in IE and earlier netscape >> >>I used the xhtml transitional dtd for the site, and I have found that >>the page displays correctly in netscape 6 as soon as I take out the >>xhtml doctype declaration: vicki - is your page xhtml? >> >>could anyone tell me why netscape 6 does this - is this a correct >>implementation of the xhtml dtd? - and what the best solution would be. >> >>thanks >> >>-rob- >> >>Rob Weidman >>Cataloging Librarian >>Lehigh University >>Library & Technology Services >> >>Vicki Falkland wrote: >> >> >>>reply to the list instead of individuals due to numerous personal responses. >>> >>>i've become intrigued by this little bit of code. >>> >>>i've tried all suggestions: removed white space, put code all on one line, >>>added height="1" to , added
after ... a bunch of things (oh, >>>and obviously i've included bgcolor which i neglected to include that in my >>>original question). >>>people keep telling "i do and it works for me". well, i paste their >>>code into MY editor, display it in NS6, and i get a fat black line. >>>older Netscapes display it fine, IE displays it fine. >>>whats up with NS6 ?? >>>or am i STILL missing something?? >>> >>>v. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Vicki Falkland" >>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" >>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 7:40 PM >>>>>>Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi folks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Once upon a time, it was possible to create a thin black line across >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>part >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>of a table with the following code: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I've been looking at one of our older, defunct sites on newer versions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>of >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Netscape, just out of curiosity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Funny thing is, Navigator stand-alone 4.08 displays it just fine, but >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>newer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Netscapes (6+) don't collapse the table row to a thin line - it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>displays >>>> >>>> >>>>>>it >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>at full height as if there were text in it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I know that folk here in general say this practice is "not on", that it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>is >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>not "good design", but I really am curious. A lot of sites still do >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>this. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>How do they get this "thin black line" to display in Netscape? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Or have I missed something entirely??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>vicki >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> > From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed May 22 09:59:53 2002 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <070c01c20198$f3352b80$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> A consultation with a reference librarian also requires: * Knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian (speaking of jargon, I don't see the word "reference" anywhere on their answer site). Raise your hand if you think your library's reference services are as well-known to people in your community as Google. * Wanting to consult with a reference librarian (here, computers may have an unfair advantage--I have a hunch we are all inclined to be more lenient with computer glitches, whereas one bad interaction with a librarian can turn someone off that service for good) * Connecting with the library on its own terms (examining the timestamps on those questions would be interesting)--which can involve driving, parking, etc. or (if you know to do it) using an online reference service. I agree with Rich. "Matching people with good answers" sounds like a service that at minimum has its niche. Google has the money to keep playing with this until they get it right or until they conclude it's a pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much this service competes with free online services provided by libraries... time will tell... ---------------------------------------------- Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw lii.org: Information You Can Trust! ---------------------------------------------- From plum at ulink.net Wed May 22 10:33:12 2002 From: plum at ulink.net (Nancy Sosna Bohm) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <070c01c20198$f3352b80$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> Message-ID: And then there's the axiom of "you get what you pay for." Users are likely to assume that for $20.00 they can save a couple of hours of fruitless surfing or stack browsing and get a complete, accurate answer. It will be interesting to see if Google can in fact achieve such results and turn a profit. on 5/22/02 9:02 AM, Karen G. Schneider at kgs@bluehighways.com wrote: ... Google has the money to keep playing with this until they get it right or until they conclude it's a pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much this service competes with free online services provided by libraries... time will tell... From gprice at gwu.edu Wed May 22 10:35:00 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <3CEE1A3D@webmailbackup> Karen, You make some excellent points. A few thoughts. >===== Original Message From kgs@bluehighways.com ===== >A consultation with a reference librarian also requires: > >* Knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian (speaking of >jargon, I don't see the word "reference" anywhere on their answer site). >Raise your hand if you think your library's reference services are as >well-known to people in your community as Google. > Perhaps libraries, or whatever you want to call them, need to evaluate or reevaluate how they market and promote services, skills, and abilities. Not only has Google created a great product and reputations but they also really demo that viral marketing works. Another problem that I've seen how some libraries label databases on web pages and handouts. Ebscohost, Expanded Academic ASAP. etc. doesn't mean a great deal to most people. Couple this with so many databases (including Google, AllTheWeb, etc) to choose from and many searched in a different manner further complicate the problem. So, just getting started is a huge undertaking for many people. >I agree with Rich. "Matching people with good answers" sounds like a >service that at minimum has its niche. Google has the money to keep >playing with this until they get it right or until they conclude it's a >pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much this service competes with >free online services provided by libraries... time will tell... Again, this is a question of marketing and demonstrating what we offer both at the library building itself or remotely. I've yet to give a presentation and have more than one or two people know that public libraries offer many free services, including remotely accessible databases. Also, since Google Answers can only use "on the web" resources to answer questions what does this say to those who write the big checks to online database services like Ebsco, Gale, and Proquest? Why are they spending the money? Should vendors also help promote these services at the libraries who buy access to them? Cheers, gary Looking for News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.blogspot.com ---------------------- Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gprice@gwu.edu From gprice at gwu.edu Wed May 22 10:36:15 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <3CEE1CBE@webmailbackup> Karen, You make some excellent points. A few thoughts. >===== Original Message From kgs@bluehighways.com ===== >A consultation with a reference librarian also requires: > >* Knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian (speaking of >jargon, I don't see the word "reference" anywhere on their answer site). >Raise your hand if you think your library's reference services are as >well-known to people in your community as Google. > Perhaps libraries, or whatever you want to call them, need to evaluate or reevaluate how they market and promote services, skills, and abilities. Not only has Google created a great product and reputations but they also really demo that viral marketing works. Another problem that I've seen how some libraries label databases on web pages and handouts. Ebscohost, Expanded Academic ASAP. etc. doesn't mean a great deal to most people. Couple this with so many databases (including Google, AllTheWeb, etc) to choose from and many searched in a different manner further complicate the problem. So, just getting started is a huge undertaking for many people. >I agree with Rich. "Matching people with good answers" sounds like a >service that at minimum has its niche. Google has the money to keep >playing with this until they get it right or until they conclude it's a >pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much this service competes with >free online services provided by libraries... time will tell... Again, this is a question of marketing and demonstrating what we offer both at the library building itself or remotely. I've yet to give a presentation and have more than one or two people know that public libraries offer many free services, including remotely accessible databases. Also, since Google Answers can only use "on the web" resources to answer questions what does this say to those who write the big checks to online database services like Ebsco, Gale, and Proquest? Why are they spending the money? Should vendors also help promote these services at the libraries who buy access to them? Cheers, gary >===== Original Message From kgs@bluehighways.com ===== >A consultation with a reference librarian also requires: > >* Knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian (speaking of >jargon, I don't see the word "reference" anywhere on their answer site). >Raise your hand if you think your library's reference services are as >well-known to people in your community as Google. > >* Wanting to consult with a reference librarian (here, computers may >have an unfair advantage--I have a hunch we are all inclined to be more >lenient with computer glitches, whereas one bad interaction with a >librarian can turn someone off that service for good) > >* Connecting with the library on its own terms (examining the timestamps >on those questions would be interesting)--which can involve driving, >parking, etc. or (if you know to do it) using an online reference >service. > >I agree with Rich. "Matching people with good answers" sounds like a >service that at minimum has its niche. Google has the money to keep >playing with this until they get it right or until they conclude it's a >pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much this service competes with >free online services provided by libraries... time will tell... > >---------------------------------------------- >Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org >Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet >lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw > lii.org: Information You Can Trust! >---------------------------------------------- Looking for News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.blogspot.com ---------------------- Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gprice@gwu.edu From apgagne at frontiernet.net Wed May 22 10:46:00 2002 From: apgagne at frontiernet.net (Andro =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gagn=E9?=) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape and the thin black line Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020522104403.02355d50@pop3.frontiernet.net> Vicki: At 02:29 PM 5/22/02 +1000, you wrote: > > Well, there is one other requirement which I didn't cover, as I > >was assuming that you were referring to a page which had a screen's worth > >of content in the table. > >i am. the table is 100% wide. I'm sorry...my explanation here probably was not clear enough. What I meant by "a screen's worth of content in the table" was not the width attribute in the table tag, but the amount of vertical space on a monitor screen that your page takes up as a result of having text and/or image content within the content-carrying cell(s) of the table. If you have no other space-occupying content in your table code than the code for the line, the line will be "fat." Fill up a monitor screen with content in your page, and the line's "fatness" will go away. > >You > >can see an example of the use of table code for creating lines on this Web > >site's pages: > > > > http://www.cognitivecoaching.cc/ > > > >right. ok. i went there, using NS6. it looks fine. i stole a piece of your >code: > > >
> > >i pasted that into a blank document, viewed it in NS6, and the line is FAT. >i don't get this. i just don't get it at all :( As you probably have surmised from my response above, the next step is to place enough content in the content-carrying cell(s) of the table to take up a screen's worth of vertical space. (You also don't need "COLSPAN=4" if you haven't coded for 4 columns in your table, but this isn't what's keeping your line "fat.") Best regards, Andy Andro Gagn? Web Design http://www.andro-gagne.com/ From pfa at umich.edu Wed May 22 11:17:06 2002 From: pfa at umich.edu (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Completely aside from "best bang for the buck" issues, what about ethics and accountability? Google has unidentified folk asking questions which are answered by unidentified "experts" in topics which carry potentially serious results. I am thinking specifically of health, but the same issues apply with making legal or financial decisions, for example. In addition, in browsing the archives of questions, I have seen some questions that just shrieked "Answer my homework question for me." :-) Not *quite* plagiarism, eh? Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu On Wed, 22 May 2002, Nancy Sosna Bohm wrote: > And then there's the axiom of "you get what you pay for." Users are likely > to assume that for $20.00 they can save a couple of hours of fruitless > surfing or stack browsing and get a complete, accurate answer. It will be > interesting to see if Google can in fact achieve such results and turn a > profit. > > on 5/22/02 9:02 AM, Karen G. Schneider at kgs@bluehighways.com wrote: > .. Google has the money to keep playing with this until they get it right > or until they conclude it's a pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much > this service competes with free online services provided by libraries... > time will tell... > > From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 11:31:12 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew I. Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: <070c01c20198$f3352b80$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> Message-ID: For those interested in giving the latest version of Netscape a go, you can try out Preview Release 1: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ It is based on the RC2 build of Mozilla 1.0. Based on past Netscape releases built on the Mozilla code, you can probably expect a bit more spit-and-polish improvements compared to the comparable Mozilla release. But also expect a healthy dose of AOL and Netscape branding too. Is anyone currently using one of the Netscape 6 version browsers in their libraries? Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed May 22 11:41:35 2002 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <3CEE1CBE@webmailbackup> Message-ID: <076301c201a7$2802bef0$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> :Perhaps libraries, or whatever you want to call them, need to evaluate or :reevaluate how they market and promote services, skills, and abilities. Not :only has Google created a great product and reputations but they also :really :demo that viral marketing works. : :Another problem that I've seen how some libraries label databases on web :pages :and handouts. Ebscohost, Expanded Academic ASAP. etc. doesn't mean a great :deal to most people. Couple this with so many databases (including Google, *Perhaps indeed* ;) I agree, a lot of it boils down to marketing. I am on a small discussion list for journalists and I do my duty to my profession by periodically touting library services, particularly what we often call "remote databases." They never fail to be amazed, but I have to coach them that these resources exist, and I warn them that the resources are often presented laden with jargon and in some incomprehensible organization known only to its designer. Journalists. News. Get it? To quote (after I did some hand-holding with several list members): "I live in [COULD BE YOUR CITY], have a card, and decided to check this out. I don't even have to go to the library! Everything (and I mean everything) is available online through the [COULD BE YOUR SERVICES]." The journalist then went on to extol all the great things she found. A great ad for [COULD BE YOUR SERVICES], and also a big clue: if your local journalists have no idea you offer these services--people who make it their business to find free info sources--then you have a marketing problem. I do not pretend to have solved this problem. I know we need to market; most people don't know we exist. Which is too bad, because people who find us often really like us. The collective advice I received: "You're right, Karen, the library needs to hire some marketing professionals to get the word out." We don't publish our books--maybe we shouldn't try to do our own PR? ---------------------------------------------- Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw lii.org: Information You Can Trust! ---------------------------------------------- From dream at vcu.edu Wed May 22 11:43:31 2002 From: dream at vcu.edu (Dan Ream) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions References: Message-ID: <3CEBBCA3.19AB35FE@vcu.edu> I think Patricia's point about accountability is an interesting one, but would add that few library patrons--if they had a gun held to their head--could name the reference librarian who helped them a few minutes ago--even if they EVER knew who they were talking to. We in libraries are among the most anonymous service workers I've ever dealt with. Even the cashier at 7-11 wears a nametag , but rarely do I encounter a librarian's or library staff member's name without asking. Our accountability and perhaps our image might be much improved by putting our names out there a little more. Think about that the next time you're sitting at a reference desk--how can the next user who walks up tell who you are and whether or not you're qualified to give an authoritative answer! Off my soapbox now! ;-) --Dan Ream Head, Education & Outreach Services Virginia Commonwealth University Libraries Richmond, Virginia dream@vcu.edu Patricia F Anderson wrote: > Completely aside from "best bang for the buck" issues, what about ethics > and accountability? Google has unidentified folk asking questions which > are answered by unidentified "experts" in topics which carry potentially > serious results. I am thinking specifically of health, but the same issues > apply with making legal or financial decisions, for example. In addition, > in browsing the archives of questions, I have seen some questions that > just shrieked "Answer my homework question for me." :-) Not *quite* > plagiarism, eh? > > Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Nancy Sosna Bohm wrote: > > > And then there's the axiom of "you get what you pay for." Users are likely > > to assume that for $20.00 they can save a couple of hours of fruitless > > surfing or stack browsing and get a complete, accurate answer. It will be > > interesting to see if Google can in fact achieve such results and turn a > > profit. > > > > on 5/22/02 9:02 AM, Karen G. Schneider at kgs@bluehighways.com wrote: > > .. Google has the money to keep playing with this until they get it right > > or until they conclude it's a pointless $$-sink. My questions are how much > > this service competes with free online services provided by libraries... > > time will tell... > > > > From nealej at nylink.suny.edu Wed May 22 11:58:17 2002 From: nealej at nylink.suny.edu (Jane Neale) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: Webcast of Directions for the Digital Landscape now available! Message-ID: <009FD4D39BC8D4118A8000B0D020B9B838AA8C@libmail.sysadm.suny.edu> This message has been cross-posted. Please excuse any duplication. Dear Web4Lib member, The webcast of Directions for the Digital Landscape, the sold-out Nylink Annual Meeting, is available for viewing! The archived video webcast of some segments of the Nylink Annual Meeting, Directions for the Digital Landscape, which was held on Monday-Tuesday, April 29-30, 2002 at the Gideon Putnam Hotel in Saratoga Springs, New York, is available for viewing until mid-August. Here's a great opportunity to see internationally known speakers without leaving your office! Watch Keynote Speaker Roy Tennant speak about the future of the digital landscape for libraries. His provocative talk challenges librarians to provide users with an easy, effective information retrieval tool. In the panel on linking technologies, Amy Brand of CrossRef, Oren Beit-Arie of SFX and Albert Simmonds of OCLC's Open Names Service discuss linking services and how they are relevant to libraries. Jay Jordan, CEO and President of OCLC discusses new initiatives taking place in the library community. A panel discussion including all of the above speakers covered a variety of topics relevant to the library landscape. Attendees said the following about the meeting: "This was an extremely worthwhile two-day program. I'm very glad I came." "Overall, this was an excellent program with lots of food for thought as well as a strong take-home message. Good job!" "This was an excellent meeting- lively, informative and well-organized." "The conference had very interesting, relevant content and "big name " speakers. Thanks very much!" "Excellent! Challenging, timely..." "Excellent program- high level, visionary, world-class thinking exercise delivered by outside speakers" More information on the webcast, including registration information, can be found at http://nylink.suny.edu/amwebcast.htm . We hope you can join us online! Thanks very much, Jane Jane C. Neale Information Technology Coordinator Nylink State University Plaza Albany, NY 12246 e-mail: nealej@nylink.suny.edu T (800) 342-3353 F (518) 432-4346 From gprice at gwu.edu Wed May 22 10:57:26 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: Netscape 7.0 Preview Release Now Online Message-ID: <3CEE4733@webmailbackup> A few hours ago Netscape placed a preview edition of Netscape 7.0 online. If you want to give it a whirl you can find it at: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ What's New with the Browser: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/features/browsing.jsp Learn More: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/learnmore.jsp cheers, gary Looking for News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.blogspot.com ---------------------- Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gprice@gwu.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed May 22 12:03:36 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522115449.0228faa8@ohiolink.edu> At 11:33 AM 5/22/2002, Andrew I. Mutch wrote: >For those interested in giving the latest version of Netscape a go, you >can try out Preview Release 1: > >http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/7/ > >It is based on the RC2 build of Mozilla 1.0. Based on past Netscape >releases built on the Mozilla code, you can probably expect a bit more >spit-and-polish improvements compared to the comparable Mozilla release. >But also expect a healthy dose of AOL and Netscape branding too. I'm interested--but not surprised--that Netscape removed the config setting to disallow sites from opening unrequested windows. Who pays for the piper's pop-ups calls the tune. I'm also very disappointed (with RC2, not Netscape specifically) that the Mozilla developers took out the site navigation bar, which uses document LINK elements. They say that it is a performance hit on startup. It may be back in Mozilla 1.1. And I'm confused by the fact that, at least on my machine, NS7b1 is significantly less stable than Mozilla RC2. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From dkh2 at po.cwru.edu Wed May 22 12:24:57 2002 From: dkh2 at po.cwru.edu (D. Keith Higgs) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522115449.0228faa8@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <005201c201ad$3682d8b0$68601681@digilib> I'm not completely surprised by this though. Isn't the current release of Netscape built from Mozilla code that is already a couple of months old? A lot of stability issues can be either remedied in the parent code, or created in the child cold in that time. Keith Higgs D. Keith Higgs Case Western Reserve University Webmaster - University Library Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 And I'm confused by the fact that, at least on my machine, NS7b1 is significantly less stable than Mozilla RC2. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From pfa at umich.edu Wed May 22 12:28:44 2002 From: pfa at umich.edu (Patricia F Anderson) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <3CEBBCA3.19AB35FE@vcu.edu> Message-ID: Dan, I am more with you than you would ever know!! A large number of my patrons cannot tell the difference between myself (the head librarian) and my administrative assistant who is only at the Circulation Desk in emergency situations, since that is not her job. :-) Creates ... interesting challenges. This does depend in part on the library, though. My library is extremely small, and supports a relatively small patron base, so most folks know me. It is just that my assistant is roughly the same size, shape, gender, age, color, hairstyle, etc. Not really, but folks sure think so. So patrons DO put a name to the person "helping" them, and the name is mine, whether or not it was me. :-) My point about accountability, however, was directed a bit differently than it was taken. Librarians, at least when I was in school (15 yrs ago), took courses in which they were trained in core reference skills and issues, ie. people skills, question negotiation, reading between the lines. If a student tried to get a librarian to do the homework for them, ideally the librarian would think, ah, this might be an assignment. :-) Now, I have faculty who say they don't MIND if I do the required database search for the student, since the student learns who to ask when stuck. Faculty choice. In health, my area, there are huge issues with what question the patient asks, and what they really want to know. Misunderstanding the question can be life-threatening. Not that it doesn't happen with medical librarians, but at least they are trained to THINK about this issue. Staff, ie. clerical staff, at medical libraries are usually told to refer questions up the chain and give out the real librarian's business card. I know my staff are told to do so. Ideally, a tricky health question will come to the person best qualified to negotiate the sensitive issues with the patient or patient advocate. So who are the Google Answerers, answering questions on mixing medications and life expectancy and best docs etc.? Browse the answers, and you see the same folks answering questions about street drugs and mixing meds as answer questions about how to do your taxes. They don't seem to be specialists in a topic area. That combined with the lack of names ... concerns me. Yes, they have a nice disclaimer. Does being legally not accountable mean they are ethically not accountable? My soapbox. :-) Patricia Anderson, pfa@umich.edu On Wed, 22 May 2002, Dan Ream wrote: > I think Patricia's point about accountability is an interesting one, but would > add that few library patrons--if they had a gun held to their head--could name > the reference librarian who helped them a few minutes ago--even if they EVER knew > who they were talking to. > > We in libraries are among the most anonymous service workers I've ever dealt > with. Even the cashier at 7-11 wears a nametag , but rarely do I encounter a > librarian's or library staff member's name without asking. > > Our accountability and perhaps our image might be much improved by putting our > names out there a little more. > > Think about that the next time you're sitting at a reference desk--how can the > next user who walks up tell who you are and whether or not you're qualified to > give an authoritative answer! > > Off my soapbox now! ;-) > > --Dan Ream From george at library.caltech.edu Wed May 22 12:32:21 2002 From: george at library.caltech.edu (george@library.caltech.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: Netscape 7 & Mozilla 1.0 RC2 Message-ID: <0C2C50C9B668D311878100A0C9EA3676CF4D94@dungeon.library.caltech.edu> Thomas Dowling's comment on the relative stability of NS 7 vis a vis Mozilla 1RC2 got me to thinking about my experiences with Mozilla. I've used various Mozilla releases as my primary browser for 4 or 5 months and have been generally pleased with their stability. I was especially impressed by the security update notification that Mozilla transmits to the browser on launch, most recently last week for the upgrade from RC1 to RC2. IE, for instance, requires a user to be logged in as the administrator to receive those kinds of communications. George S. Porter Sherman Fairchild Library of Engineering & Applied Science Caltech, 1-43 Pasadena, CA 91125-4300 Telephone (626) 395-3409 Fax (626) 431-2681 From bernies at uillinois.edu Wed May 22 12:41:07 2002 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google Answers questions Message-ID: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CF9A7@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> I am really curious to see if Google can actually offer this service over the long haul. There have been many for-fee Q&A services that have debuted to big publicity and then faded into the woodwork. WebHelp.com is a good example. WebHelp started out as a free service, with a lot of publicity, and a lot of activity. When they switched to for-fee, they more or less faded away in short order. If anyone can make a go of this, Google can. But if Google can't, you have to figure for-fee Q&A services are a niche market at best. Bernie Sloan -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wiggins [mailto:rich@richardwiggins.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 2:12 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Google Answers questions Today I tried out Google Answers, their new for-fee human mediated reference service. I asked about relative safety of taking a helicopter tour of the Grand Canyon. I offered $20 for the answer. The question, and answer, appear here: https://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=17078 The answer I got was extremely well crafted and right on target with cited authorities. Foolow-up comments included more citations and personal experiences. When Gary Price posted news of this service, he speculated about interactions with other virtual reference services. What if a paid Google Answerer does arbitrage with free or for-fee library-based virtual reference services? Here's another question: what if good reference folks sign up in large numbers to be Google Answerers? The Google service gives instant payback in the form of cash for good service. A reference librarian on salary would not enjoy the same incentives, and often has many queries to contend with at once. It would be interesting to anonymously feed the exact question I asked to a variety of reference desks and see if I get the same quality answer. It'd also be interesting to take a bunch of asked-and-answered questions from virtual reference desks and feed them to the Google service at a variety of price points. In any event, I dunno folks, but I think Google is onto something. Oh, and I did find a pretty satisfying answer as about the 3rd hit just by searching Google myself -- first try. :-) /rich Richard Wiggins Writing, Speaking, and Consulting on Internet Topics rich@richardwiggins.com www.richardwiggins.com From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 12:42:04 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 References: <005201c201ad$3682d8b0$68601681@digilib> Message-ID: <3CEBCA5C.59C63CD6@tln.lib.mi.us> According to Mozillazine, PR1 is based on RC2, which was released on May 10, 2002. http://mozilla.org/releases/ Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI "D. Keith Higgs" wrote: > I'm not completely surprised by this though. Isn't the current release > of Netscape built from Mozilla code that is already a couple of months > old? A lot of stability issues can be either remedied in the parent > code, or created in the child cold in that time. > > Keith Higgs > D. Keith Higgs > Case Western Reserve University > Webmaster - University Library > Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] > On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 > > And I'm confused by the fact that, at least on my machine, NS7b1 is > significantly less stable than Mozilla RC2. > > Thomas Dowling > OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From catherine at leo.scsl.state.sc.us Wed May 22 12:53:46 2002 From: catherine at leo.scsl.state.sc.us (Catherine Buck Morgan) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape 7 References: Message-ID: <3CEBCD1A.1010207@leo.scsl.state.sc.us> I've loaded Netscape 6 on a few machines.... and the experience has not been pleasant. It destroys address books, esp. the groups. It doesn't interpret javascript well... scripts that ran well on 4.79 and IE (all versions), don't execute properly in Netscape 6, 6.2, etc. I do have Netscape 6.2 running in our training lab. I did a custom load, for browser only, no AOL, no mail, etc., and for the most part, it does just okay. Our trainers quickly and unanimously decided to use IE for most of the training, however. --Catherine. Andrew I. Mutch wrote: > > > Is anyone currently using one of the Netscape 6 version browsers in their > libraries? > > Andrew Mutch > Library Systems Technician > Waterford Township Public Library > Waterford, MI > > > > -- Catherine Buck Morgan Automation Librarian South Carolina State Library EMAIL: catherine@leo.scsl.state.sc.us Phone: 803.734.8651 Fax 803.734.4757 Home page: http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/ Web catalog: http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/scslweb/welcome.html The opinions stated herein are not necessarily those of SCSL. From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed May 22 13:11:54 2002 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: <3CEBCD1A.1010207@leo.scsl.state.sc.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522130629.02e2b158@ohiolink.edu> At 12:59 PM 5/22/2002, Catherine Buck Morgan wrote: >I've loaded Netscape 6 on a few machines.... and the experience has not >been pleasant. It destroys address books, esp. the groups. It doesn't >interpret javascript well... scripts that ran well on 4.79 and IE (all >versions), don't execute properly in Netscape 6, 6.2, etc. Problems like this often need closer examination. There are a lot of scripts out there that, in essence, ask the browser, "Are you Netscape 4? If not, I'll assume you're IE." The scripts then continue to do things in a way that is either proprietary to NS4 or proprietary to IE4+. To the user, of course, broken is broken. But at this point it's unreasonable to expect newly created browsers to reverse engineer every hack from five years ago in obsolete browsers; on the other hand, it is reasonable (IMO) to call web authors' attention to their reliance on non-standard code. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From suekamm at mindspring.com Wed May 22 13:16:52 2002 From: suekamm at mindspring.com (Sue Kamm) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: A large part of the vote against name tags for staff comes from public librarians in particular who don't want to be hassled by the assorted weirdoes, nuts, flakes, and criminals who come into the library. (And even when I'm sitting at the reference desk, wearing my name tag, someone will STILL come up to me and ask: "Do you work here?") -- Your friendly CyberGoddess and ALA Councilor-at-large, Sue Kamm Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 Visit my home page: http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm email: suekamm@mindspring.com "Good is not good when better is expected." -- Vin Scully From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 13:26:41 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Netscape 7 References: <3CEBCD1A.1010207@leo.scsl.state.sc.us> Message-ID: <3CEBD4D1.519818C2@tln.lib.mi.us> Without some way to lock down the interface, I'm not sure that the Netscape-branded versions of Mozilla are going to be good fits with the public computing environments in libraries. However, in Netscape's defense, the problems with Javascript and the previously mentioned problems with table display in web pages are not the fault of the browser. These problems are caused by Netscape's attempt to implement web standards for HTML and DOM running into hacked methods that worked with old browsers but fail in when made to fit the standards model. As has been said before, web designers are going to have to learn to write to the standards if they want the future browsers to properly handle their scripts and display their pages. Of course, all of that means nothing to a patron or staff member who can't understand why Netscape won't display a web page that looks fine in IE. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI Catherine Buck Morgan wrote: > I've loaded Netscape 6 on a few machines.... and the experience has not > been pleasant. It destroys address books, esp. the groups. It doesn't > interpret javascript well... scripts that ran well on 4.79 and IE (all > versions), don't execute properly in Netscape 6, 6.2, etc. > > I do have Netscape 6.2 running in our training lab. I did a custom load, > for browser only, no AOL, no mail, etc., and for the most part, it does > just okay. Our trainers quickly and unanimously decided to use IE for > most of the training, however. > > --Catherine. > From bernies at uillinois.edu Wed May 22 13:26:31 2002 From: bernies at uillinois.edu (Sloan, Bernie) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CF9AC@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> Karen Schneider said: "The collective advice I received: "You're right, Karen, the library needs to hire some marketing professionals to get the word out." We don't publish our books--maybe we shouldn't try to do our own PR?" Marketing and PR are important when it comes to making people aware of library-based Q&A services (i.e., reference services). But marketing and PR are just part of that equation. When I give a talk on digital reference services (which is a for-free library equivalent of the for-fee Google Answers) I like to stress the term "visibility". It's my take on the digital reference services version of the first item in RUSA's "Guidelines for Behavioral Performance of Reference and Information Services Professionals" See Section 1.0 ("Approachability") at http://www.ala.org/rusa/stnd_behavior.html). To me, PR and marketing are part of the "visibility" equation. A good marketing campaign can raise people's awareness of a service. But to complete the equation you need to work on ways to make the user aware of your service at the user's point of need. As Karen also said "A consultation with a reference librarian also requires...knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian." If we can make people aware that they "can consult with a reference librarian" at the time that they need to consult with a reference librarian (i.e., at their point of need) we'll be a lot closer to seeing increased use of the digital reference services we offer. Bernie Sloan From agjf1 at nsh.library.ns.ca Wed May 22 10:39:18 2002 From: agjf1 at nsh.library.ns.ca (Jeremy Foster) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: _5.1.0.14.2.20020522130629.02e2b158@ohiolink.edu_ Message-ID: <102208915825215-22143925215agjf1@hrl.nsh.library.ns.ca> On Wed, 22 May 2002 Thomas Dowling wrote: > To the user, of course, broken is broken. But at this point it's > unreasonable to expect newly created browsers to reverse engineer every > hack from five years ago in obsolete browsers; on the other hand, it is > reasonable (IMO) to call web authors' attention to their reliance on > non-standard code. > > > Thomas Dowling Exactly right Thomas! Web designers should not be reliant on non-standard code. My only hope is that NEtscape gets to a point were it is stable and supports all the standard code and the same with IE. A users selection of a browser should be based on what he or she preferes in over-all look and feel as a GUI program. and not in which supporst the most widely used non-standard code. but that would be a fairytale land for web designers.... Jeremy Foster HRL Webmaster ----------------------------------- agjf1@nsh.library.ns.ca Tel: (902)490-5670 http://www.halifax.library.ns.ca ----------------------------------- Alderney Gate Library 60 Alderney Drive Dartmouth, NS, B2Y 4P8 ----------------------------------- From dkh2 at po.cwru.edu Wed May 22 13:45:49 2002 From: dkh2 at po.cwru.edu (D. Keith Higgs) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522130629.02e2b158@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: <005401c201b8$824e1240$68601681@digilib> My thoughts, only more concise. I tend to take the approach of coding for DOM-Compliant vs Non-DOM-Compliant. Any methods I use that require DOM compliance get tested and accomodated. The blessing of this approach is that I don't have to test for and account for every version of multiple browsers. I test for the specific DOM methods I am using [i.e. getElementByID()] and provide the appropriate work-around where needed. The folks at Netscape will try to tell you that if your script breaks it is a sign that there was something wrong with it to start with. I disagree. The real change is that Netscape has adopted an approach that encourages you to take advantage of standards where they now exist. D. Keith Higgs Case Western Reserve University Webmaster - University Library Additional Information at http://www.cwru.edu/UL/ -----Original Message----- From: web4lib@webjunction.org [mailto:web4lib@webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Dowling Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 01:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Netscape 7 At 12:59 PM 5/22/2002, Catherine Buck Morgan wrote: >I've loaded Netscape 6 on a few machines.... and the experience has not >been pleasant. It destroys address books, esp. the groups. It doesn't >interpret javascript well... scripts that ran well on 4.79 and IE (all >versions), don't execute properly in Netscape 6, 6.2, etc. Problems like this often need closer examination. There are a lot of scripts out there that, in essence, ask the browser, "Are you Netscape 4? If not, I'll assume you're IE." The scripts then continue to do things in a way that is either proprietary to NS4 or proprietary to IE4+. To the user, of course, broken is broken. But at this point it's unreasonable to expect newly created browsers to reverse engineer every hack from five years ago in obsolete browsers; on the other hand, it is reasonable (IMO) to call web authors' attention to their reliance on non-standard code. Thomas Dowling OhioLINK - Ohio Library and Information Network tdowling@ohiolink.edu From pohjolak at libcoop.net Wed May 22 13:43:38 2002 From: pohjolak at libcoop.net (Kate A. Pohjola) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions References: Message-ID: <3CEBD8CA.6E7ED919@libcoop.net> Patricia F Anderson wrote: > Completely aside from "best bang for the buck" issues, what about ethics > and accountability? Google has unidentified folk asking questions which > are answered by unidentified "experts" in topics which carry potentially > serious results. I am thinking specifically of health, but the same issues > apply with making legal or financial decisions, for example. We encounter the same situations in the public library. I'm very much a generalist, as is the rest of my staff. I have my stronger areas, but by far, I am no expert in any one area. That doesn't prohibit me from answering legal/medical/financial reference queries, though. Granted, as a librarian, my reference skills should hopefully be far superior to those of the generic JoeBob off the street, but I really don't think the accountability and ethics are any different. We give patrons the same disclaimers that are posted on almost all of the pages at Google Answers - see your doctor, talk to an accountant or a CPA, we're not lawyers, etc. It's up to the end user/patron to heed those warnings. Hopefully the folks at Google that are doing the hiring of the researchers are being picky about who they will and won't hire, and will choose researchers that can provide prompt and correct answers. > In addition, in browsing the archives of questions, I have seen some > questions that just shrieked "Answer my homework question for me." > :-) Not *quite* plagiarism, eh? Most of the reference questions I get here in my small public library are of that sort: help me with my homework, help me with a trivia/contest question, help me win a bet, etc. We try to find creative ways to encourage the patron to do their own work, but let's face it, they just want an answer. Half the time they don't care if it's the *right* answer... but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. I admit it. I applied to work for Google Answers. My essay was approved last week, and I'm currently waiting to hear on the test questions. There's gotta be other web savvy librarians out there that have applied. Anyone? kate -- Kate A. Pohjola Branch Librarian Supervisor Maybelle Burnette Branch - Warren Public Library http://www.libcoop.net/warren From dream at vcu.edu Wed May 22 13:58:15 2002 From: dream at vcu.edu (Dan Ream) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions References: Message-ID: <3CEBDC37.2B751AA6@vcu.edu> Re: the wearing of nametags and anonymity at the reference desk.... Our urban university library has been through the same arguments/discussions because of similar clientele and perceived dangers. So now we wear university IDs around our necks that no one can read. Ahh, compromise! ;-) Seriously, it seems a shame that "normal" users are denied learning who we are because of the lunatic fringe among our clientele and (not to belittle the occasional real dangers we face) somehow I don't think a librarian's concept of danger can rival that of a 7-11 clerk at 4AM who wears a nametag. I think if librarians are going to step out of the shadows and become accepted as authoritative, they'll need to overcome this anonymity problem. If you weren't a librarian--who would you trust?.. Google, whose made themselves a household name with an excellent search engine....or some anonymous guy sitting behind a library desk? And Sue--I think your patron who approaches you at the desk to ask if you work there is probably dealing with plain old awkwardness-- they probably never went to charm school or cotillion! ;-) --Dan Ream Virginia Commonwealth University Library Richmond, Virginia P.S. Apologies if we've veered off the usual subject matter of Web4Lib a bit here- though I think the issue of authority of help sources--online versus live--is pretty relevant. Or I hope so. Sue Kamm wrote: > A large part of the vote against name tags for staff comes from public > librarians in particular who don't want to be hassled by the assorted > weirdoes, nuts, flakes, and criminals who come into the library. (And > even when I'm sitting at the reference desk, wearing my name tag, > someone will STILL come up to me and ask: "Do you work here?") > > -- > Your friendly CyberGoddess and ALA Councilor-at-large, > Sue Kamm > Truest of the Blue, Los Angeles Dodgers Think Blue Week 2000 > Visit my home page: > http://suekamm.home.mindspring.com/index.htm > email: suekamm@mindspring.com > "Good is not good when better is expected." -- Vin Scully From dan at riverofdata.com Wed May 22 13:58:57 2002 From: dan at riverofdata.com (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <137170164233.20020522115857@riverofdata.com> Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 11:18:21 AM, you wrote: SK> A large part of the vote against name tags for staff comes from public SK> librarians in particular who don't want to be hassled by the assorted SK> weirdoes, nuts, flakes, and criminals who come into the library. I've never noticed that the amount of hassling from such people (and we get a ton of them in a public, downtown, academic library that is a half mile from the rescue mission and adjacent to the park where many of them live) has anything to do with nametags. And, having a nametag can mean many things. Personally, I think we should ALL wear one, but with the option of it just saying "librarian", or "Sue" or "Sue, Reference Librarian", or "Sue Kamm, ask me for my phone number" or whatever else within some amount of reason works for you. Obviously, local policies need to be established with appropriate minima and maxima for tag content. But I fail to understand how a nametag saying "Sue K., Librarian" or similar increases the threat on you or anyone else. SK> (And SK> even when I'm sitting at the reference desk, wearing my name tag, SK> someone will STILL come up to me and ask: "Do you work here?") Two possibilities here. One, the patron is simply not observant. Two, the patron is trying to be particularly polite and correct and is actually looking at your face instead of your chest. dan -- Dan Lester, Data Wrangler dan@RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711 3577 East Pecan, Boise, Idaho 83716-7115 USA www.riverofdata.com www.gailndan.com Stop Global Whining! From gprice at gwu.edu Wed May 22 14:03:01 2002 From: gprice at gwu.edu (gprice) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CF9AC@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020522134130.028a3b80@imap.gwu.edu> Bernie: So it sounds like it's a combo of both marketing (what Karen and I mention) followed-up with excellent service if/when a patron decides to use it. Good service not only leaves the patron with the information he or she needs but it can provide "word of mouth" promotion from satisfied patrons/customers, which in many ways is precisely how Google has made such an impact. I concur with marketing at the point of need but this should not be in place of marketing "outside" the library. The point of need for many can be at home, on the road, or at the office. Perhaps patrons who've never used the "physical" library will become instant users of digital reference services? These people could also be "gatekeepers" who will let others, maybe other current library users, that these services are available. In other words it's a way to increase library usage. It's been my experience, especially in this age of Google, that ALL "web search" training sessions should/must have a "what the library" offers component and to stress many services are available WITHOUT having to leave your home or office. This way you alert folks who want to "search the web" that while Google, AllTheWeb, etc. are useful tools BUT they aren't the only tools available. Then, give actual examples of how a library database/virtual ref service could assist. It's also been my experience that people, some library users others not, will be more likely to attend a Google/web search session vs. a "how to use the library" seminar. cheers, gary At 01:31 PM 5/22/02, Sloan, Bernie wrote: >Karen Schneider said: > >"The collective advice I received: "You're right, Karen, the library >needs to hire some marketing professionals to get the word out." We >don't publish our books--maybe we shouldn't try to do our own PR?" > >Marketing and PR are important when it comes to making people aware of >library-based Q&A services (i.e., reference services). But marketing and PR >are just part of that equation. > >When I give a talk on digital reference services (which is a for-free >library equivalent of the for-fee Google Answers) I like to stress the term >"visibility". It's my take on the digital reference services version of the >first item in RUSA's "Guidelines for Behavioral Performance of Reference and >Information Services Professionals" See Section 1.0 ("Approachability") at >http://www.ala.org/rusa/stnd_behavior.html). > >To me, PR and marketing are part of the "visibility" equation. A good >marketing campaign can raise people's awareness of a service. But to >complete the equation you need to work on ways to make the user aware of >your service at the user's point of need. > >As Karen also said "A consultation with a reference librarian also >requires...knowing that you can consult with a reference librarian." If we >can make people aware that they "can consult with a reference librarian" at >the time that they need to consult with a reference librarian (i.e., at >their point of need) we'll be a lot closer to seeing increased use of the >digital reference services we offer. > >Bernie Sloan Looking for More News, New Sites, Search Tips? Visit The Virtual Acquisition Shelf and News Desk http://resourceshelf.freepint.com Gary D. Price, MLIS Librarian Gary Price Library Research and Internet Consulting gary@freepint.com From Pradeep.Lele at nhmccd.edu Wed May 22 14:13:59 2002 From: Pradeep.Lele at nhmccd.edu (Lele, Pradeep) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: Seeking Good Examples of Marketing in Libraries Message-ID: <3B2841711F84D411B58B00A0C9EAA49A791A11@doexch1.nhmccd.edu> In July, we will be leading a "marketing your library" module for a week-long summer workshop to certify up to 40 librarians in distance learning. The week-long session is funded by a grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS). Our grant is called "Project LEAD," for Librarians Entering a New Dimension. Librarians from all over the state of Texas are applying to attend this workshop, so we really need to have good resources to share. As a part of a three hour component on Marketing, we have been drafted to elucidate various marketing concepts with examples of Marketing as applied to libraries. So, to inspire your response: What do you do to sell your library? What special promotions have you used? How does your library homepage market your library? How do you reach out to faculty/students? Do you have any resources that you would recommend? We are keen on finding good examples of Library Marketing Plans, Success stories in marketing new library services, Studies of Market Segmentation etc. We would like to share these resources with the participants and therefore would like to receive actual samples of anything you may have successfully used to market your library. Thanks Please send responses, examples, etc. to Pradeep Lele or Sarah Naper Reference Librarians North Harris College 2700 W. W. Thorne Dr. Houston, TX 77073 Tel: 281 618 7123/ 281 618 5490 From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed May 22 14:19:43 2002 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <085201c201bd$3fb071d0$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> :concerns me. Yes, they have a nice disclaimer. Does being legally not :accountable mean they are ethically not accountable? This is the absolute tragedy. Quite often we have the best services to offer, and we offer them from the heart, informed by our professional ethics, with public service as our bottom line. Then we watch while the McInfo people sell the same service, make money from it, and exploit folks, too. ---------------------------------------------- Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw lii.org: Information You Can Trust! ---------------------------------------------- From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed May 22 14:19:43 2002 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions In-Reply-To: <8DD31AE07607D511B1E70002B31FCB04010CF9AC@eagle.pb.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <085601c201bd$434e8020$0200a8c0@TAWANDA> :To me, PR and marketing are part of the "visibility" equation. A good :marketing campaign can raise people's awareness of a service. But to :complete the equation you need to work on ways to make the user aware of :your service at the user's point of need. Absolutely... and my only point here is that we need to be talking to specialists outside of librarianship to help us do this. We really aren't good at it. ---------------------------------------------- Karen G. Schneider kgs@lii.org http://lii.org Coordinator, Librarians' Index to the Internet lii.org New This Week: http://lii.org/ntw lii.org: Information You Can Trust! ---------------------------------------------- From amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us Wed May 22 14:33:05 2002 From: amutch at waterford.lib.mi.us (Andrew Mutch) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions References: <3CEBD8CA.6E7ED919@libcoop.net> Message-ID: <3CEBE461.FA49FAAE@tln.lib.mi.us> Jessamyn has covered some of her experiences answering questions for Google on her weblog. See: http://www.librarian.net/may02.shtml#7 and scan some of the surrounding entries for more comments. Andrew Mutch Library Systems Technician Waterford Township Public Library Waterford, MI "Kate A. Pohjola" wrote: > > > I admit it. I applied to work for Google Answers. My essay was > approved last week, and I'm currently waiting to hear on the test > questions. There's gotta be other web savvy librarians out there that > have applied. Anyone? > > kate > -- > Kate A. Pohjola > Branch Librarian Supervisor > Maybelle Burnette Branch - Warren Public Library > http://www.libcoop.net/warren From jacobs at students.uiuc.edu Wed May 22 14:30:00 2002 From: jacobs at students.uiuc.edu (jacobs) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: usability Message-ID: <3CEABDBA@cricket.lis.uiuc.edu> No I think I got the point. In the interest of brevity, I guess I did not explain myself very well. I was just trying to show that user profiles are never perfect. Hence, usability tests are flawed at best because we set up a test based on our user assumptions. How do you profile or test those people who get to your library website through a search engine? Can/should their needs be part of your 2-step process? How do you make profiles of 36,000 students and 2,000 faculty? We had user profiles and found through our testing and focus groups that our profiles were not as clear-cut as we had at first thought. I agree that the steps are critical and iterative in developing a useful site but they are also somewhat tenuous. In the end, we make that leap of faith, put up our site in hopes that it meets the needs of our users and change it if/when we get feedback from users or if/when we feel like changing our layout or our color codes or if/when we have a few spare moments. Regards, James Jacobs > >Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:38:58 -1000 (HST) >From: Michael >To: web4lib@webjunction.org >Subject: Re: usability >Message-ID: > >Thanks for sharing your light summary, but I think you failed to see the >point that I tried to convey from my original post. Below is a recap. > > >I shared with the list two critical steps in developing a website from >both the user's perspective and management's perspective. These two steps >were creating user profiles and conducting task analyses which take place >before conducting a test for ease-of-use, learnability, effectiveness, and >efficiency of the prototype--a usability test. > > >USER'S PERSPECIVE >----------------- >Granted that you have already conducted tests on the existing site and >gathered valuable data from it, the user profiles and tasks analyses >enable you to build a foundation for the new design because you know who >the users are and what types of activities and interactions they might >perform once they arrive. > > >Once you identify the tasks and procedures, you can then further decompose >associated sub-tasks, further exploding those prerequisites and >information needed to complete a task. > > >This will help you layout the page and build the site's architecture and >navigation systems. Then you test and further refine what you already know >or add to the design what you've just learned. > > >Therefore user profiles and task analyses will help you create a flexible >blueprint for your site's success based on factual data on who your users >are and how they go about doing their work (i.e. work habits, personal >preferences). Then you test your solution. And then you refine. And then >you test again iteratively. > > > >MANAGEMENT'S PERSPECTIVE >------------------------ >User profiles and task analyses benefits managment because you've already >mapped out the procedures required to complete a task. You know exactly >what users need to do, where to go, and how to do it. It futher reinforces >the library's goals and objectives for developing a website--you know the >site's functionality. > > > >Michael > James R. Jacobs Pre-doc Fellow / Graduate Reference Assistant Education & Social Science Library University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign Home: 303B1 Paddock Drive Savoy, IL 61874 (217)359-9283 jacobs@uiuc.edu http://radicallibrarian.org (\ {|||8- (/ ********************************************************** "Librarians, Dusty, possess a vast store of politeness. These are people who get asked regularly the dumbest questions on God's green earth. These people tolerate every kind of crank and eccentric and mouth-breather there is." --Garrison Keillor, "Lives of the Cowboys" ********************************************************** "But to live outside the law you must be honest." R.Zimmerman ********************************************************** From raywood at magma.ca Wed May 22 15:09:28 2002 From: raywood at magma.ca (Raymond Wood) Date: Wed May 18 14:40:03 2005 Subject: [WEB4LIB] Re: Google Answers questions Message-ID: <20020522190928.GE7843@magma.ca> [apologies to the list if this was inadvertently posted twice...] > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Richard