From pem at po.CWRU.Edu Sun Jun 2 18:38:53 1996 From: pem at po.CWRU.Edu (Peter Murray) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:52 2005 Subject: SUMMARY: Looking for MARC module for PERL Message-ID: Last month I posted a question to the WEB4LIB mailing list asking if anyone knew of a MARC file Module for PERL. I received a few helpful mail messages and some encouragement, but nothing that was exactly what I was looking for. Two URLs (thanks, Steve Palincsar) of note are: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Tools/ http://lcweb.loc.gov/marc/marcutil.html Below is a copy of the messages that I received. Many thanks to everyone who replied. The LOC programs look close, but the only thing that is available is an MS-DOS executable...no source code. The person who is responsible for that section of the web is on vacation right now, but I hope to hear when that person gets back that the source code is releaseable. Since I haven't found what I'm looking for, I've decided to try to write it myself. To that end, I've registered an idea in the PERL module directory and hope to have a prototype of the module up and running next month. There was a suprising amount of interested generated when I posted a message here before, so when there is substantial progress to be reported, I'll send a message to the WEB4LIB mailing list. Peter -- Peter Murray, Senior Systems Analyst pem@po.cwru.edu Library Information Technologies http://www.cwru.edu/home/pem.html Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio W:216-368-8989 From: palincsars.isc@gao.gov Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:27:51 EST Subject: USMARC records I looked through the CPAN list of Perl modules and found nothing. Then I did a web search and found this page: http://lcweb.loc.gov/marc/marcutil.html Sounds to me as though if you used the MARCBreakr program to convert to ASCII it ought to be pretty simple to parse out the resulting text with perl. OTOH, what do I know about MARC? The closest I ever got to tech svcs was doing original cataloging in a totally manual non-electronic mode. (Then I switched to reference full time, and eventually turned to the Dark Side of the Force...) steve palincsar webmaster@www.gao.gov MARCMakr & MARCBreakr General Information Network Development and MARC Standards Office This page describes software programs, related support files, and user documentation that are available, free-of-charge, to MARC format users. In order to obtain the non-textual items listed, your Web browser must be able to transfer files via File Transfer Protocol (FTP) or you must be able to use FTP directly. If FTP is not available to you, copies of these files can be sent to you via surface mail. To access the Library of Congress' FTP site directly: ftp to ftp.loc.gov login as anonymous enter your email address as the password cd to pub/marc MARCMakr This MARC utility runs on any IBM-compatible PC running under DOS with a 386 Intel (or compatible) processor, or better. (MARCMakr also runs under OS/2 in DOS emulation.) The program accepts files from most text editors and work processors and converts properly formatted information into the MARC record structure. The MARC record length, directory, and special control characters are created automatically. You can FTP the MARCMakr executable program now. MARCBreakr This companion MARC utility also runs on any IBM-compatible PC running under DOS with a 386 Intel (or compatible) processor, or better, and under OS/2 in DOS emulation. The program converts structurally sound MARC records and reformats the information into an ASCII text file format. The resulting text file is identical to the input file format required by MARCMakr. You can FTP the MARCBreakr executable program now. Character set conversion files In order to run, MARCMakr and MARCBreakr read in special character set conversion files as they run. The file named "usmarc.txt" is used with MARCMakr. The file named "ustext.txt" is used with MARCBreakr. WordPerfect Macros Two WordPerfect 5.1 macros, "mnemonix.wpm" and "diacritx.wpm", are available for preprocessing MARCMakr files or postprocessing MARCBreakr files to change from the letter-with-diacritic to the diacritic-as-separate-character encodings required in MARC. User Manual A user manual for MARCMakr and MARCBreakr is available as well. The manual describes how to run each of the utilities and how to format a text file for conversion to MARC. Test files Available to MARC users interested in experimenting or testing with these utilities are four test files; two for each of the utilities. makrtest.txt - sample MARCMakr input file makrtest.mrc - sample file after conversion to MARC by MARCMakr brkrtest.mrc - sample MARCBreakr input file brkrtest.txt - sample file after conversion to text by MARCBreakr ------------------------------ From: palincsars.isc@gao.gov Date: Wed, 22 May 96 10:40:37 EST Subject: MARC and perl Did an excite search on USMARC and perl and came up with this: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Tools/ "Tei2marc is written in perl, and based on the University of Virginia Library Electronic Text Center's most current document type definition (DTD), TEILITE.DTD. It handles English language and reads in a header element by element, stores its readings in USMARC format, and creates an output file (in ASCII) following the MARC computer file format field by field (excluding the leader)." This program is described here: http://www.sil.org/sgml/tei-marc.html Also found some conversions here: http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~jacobsd/bib/tools/converters.html#conv:marc including marc2bibtex which is written in perl. Perhaps between the two you can figure something out? ------------------------------ From: Michael Zimmerman To: Peter Murray Subject: Re: Looking for MARC module for PERL As part of a previous incarnation of our homegrown online catalog, I wrote PERL code to search MARC-style records (in text) and display them in HTML. It's not marvelous programming, and the records weren't full-blown MARC (they had MARC field tags but no sub-delimiters within the fields), but you're welcome to look at the code if you want. The task of fielded searching/reading/displaying MARC records isn't too bad. If you wanted PERL code to _write_ MARC records, I'd have to ask "write them from what?" before I could guess how easy or hard that would be. I may still have the code around to generate the MARC-style records we used from Pro-Cite export (flat-file) databases. Let me know if you'd like to see either if these, or if you have any questions. Mike From kwilson at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au Mon Jun 3 02:32:39 1996 From: kwilson at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Katie Wilson) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:52 2005 Subject: Query: Web Site Capturing software? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960528110208.1bbfa1a4@mail.comimsa.com.mx> Message-ID: Webfetch referred to in earlier messages on this topic is very good for capturing Web sites for PC/Windows - find it at http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/list.htm Does anyone know of a good Web capturing software for Macintoshes? thanks katie wilson ____________________________________________________________________ Katie Wilson tel: +61-2-850-7509 Manager, Information Technology Training Unit fax: +61-2-850-7590 Macquarie University Library Sydney, NSW 2109 Australia Email: kwilson@library.mq.edu.au ____________________________________________________________________ From jkuntz at mhv.net Mon Jun 3 10:49:45 1996 From: jkuntz at mhv.net (jkuntz@mhv.net) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Hello! Valuable listserv Message-ID: I've only been subscribed to this listserv for a week, but feel obliged to compliment subscribers for the range of interesting topics and valuable leads being covered. I intend to scour the archives for interesting URLs to investigate. We've been working on a web site of resources for profession and paraprofessional librarians called "LibraryLand". It has a definite US and public library bias, but may be interesting in its scope, icon-based interface, and organization along traditional library depts/responsibilities. The address is: http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~danglin/llhome.htm Jerry Kuntz Electronic Resources Consultant Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@mhv.net From csnow at purdue.edu Mon Jun 3 08:33:59 1996 From: csnow at purdue.edu (Carl Snow) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Query: Web Site Capturing software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have been experimenting with Netscape Gold b3.x for the Mac. It seems to have a great deal of potential but since it is in beta some features don't work as advertised. --Carl > >Does anyone know of a good Web capturing software for Macintoshes? > >thanks > >katie wilson =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Carl E. Snow VOICE (317) 494-2764 Network Access Librarian FAX (317) 494-6744 Purdue University Libraries E-Mail:csnow@purdue.edu 1530 Stewart Center URL: West Lafayette, IN 47907-1530 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome. --Samuel Johnson =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-U From mcleod at maine.maine.edu Mon Jun 3 12:11:53 1996 From: mcleod at maine.maine.edu (Jen McLeod) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Summary: Web Document capturing software Message-ID: <9606031611.AA10566@kramer.ume.maine.edu> Hello folks! I was overwhelmed with responses to my question on web page capturing tools and techniques. Below please find a summary of the responses I received. Some of the responses were semi-duplicates. I included those that seemed to give slightly different or additional information on the software being discussed. Thanks to everyone - I think the presentation will go splendidly now! (She says, knocking on wood....) Jen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try Paint Shop Pro for screen capture and Power Point for the presentation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try Browser Buddy from http://www.softbots.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You might try Netscape Gold, It appears to have some excellent conversion routines. From the edit mode just point your browser to a particular page and it will download all of the html files and graphics at a single time. In addition it adjusts links for your local machine. At least that is what happened when I tried the 3.0 Beta copy for Mac and Win95. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grab-a-Site works great, just don't ask for too many levels deep or you will see why it is called the World Wide Web, and quickly eat up your disk space. http://www.bluesquirrel.com/gas.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can actually create "local" web pages, which would reside on your hard drive, without any special software. (Although software like "HTML Assistant" makes creating Web Pages easier in general.) To get Netscape to read Web pages that you either saved to your hard drive or created from scratch: Choose "File" --> "Open File" and then Netscape (or whatever browser) reads the file locally. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In answer to your query, I've had a similar problem and the best way round it for me was to use a utility called unmozify. For presentations you visit the site in advance and get all the pages you wish to show into your cache, then run unmozify which recreates the pages locally on your hard disc and maintains all the integrity of the links and any media you brought into your cache. I've found it to be extremely effective and its free for thirty days! You can pick it up from http://www.evolve.co.uk/unmozify/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like WebFetch, a little Windows utility. You can download from: ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10k.zip http://www.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10h.zip ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10h.zip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are several programs that work really well for downloading entire web sites. I have been using WebWhacker (as it was one of the first available). I understand now that there are a couple more of these programs, some of which offer even more features. Milktruck, however, requires Win 95 or Windows NT. I don't know too much about Freeloader. In most cases, you can download the software for a free 30-day trial. Milktruck http://www.milktruck.com WebWhacker http://ffg.com/whacker.html Freeloader http://freeloader.net/index.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- one thing that works for us (if you can use a laptop on the net and then take that machine to the demo): just increase the size of your Netscape cache and set the cache to never refresh; the pages you search on the net will stay in cache memory and by replayable at your demo... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There have been recent discussions in the EdTech list (see the archive at: http://h-net.msu.edu/~edweb/) about Webwhacker (also spelled Webwacker--I don't know which spelling is correct?), and other utilities that CAN download and archive a site's html and graphics. This thread includes a big debate about weather you MAY do this, according to copyright law. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NCSA Mosaic has an "Autosurf" feature that will capture an entire site. It can be found at: http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/NCSAHome.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try the web site http://www.bluesquirrel.com It has two programs: GrabNet and WebWhacker. I haven't really had a chance to use these programs but somebody else suggested them to me. Good Luck! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm very impressed by WebFetch (Windows only). It not only works, and is simple, but it's also FREE! The file you're looking for is webf10k.zip, which is in most SimTel archives. More info from...... http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/list.htm ......in the "URL checker" section, or for a very useful site on the whole "off-line" question...... http://www.magpage.com/~cwagner/offline.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You might want to try Secret Agent < http://www.ariel.co.uk/sagent > I have only played with it w/o real application so far. I believe it will do what you need. Download it from < support@ariel.co.uk > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have had great success with Web Whacker. There is a free trial period and is quite cheap when you decide to purchase. The website is located at http://www.ffg.com/whacker.html. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Webfetch referred to in earlier messages on this topic is very good for capturing Web sites for PC/Windows - find it at http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/list.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************** Jennifer E. McLeod University of Maine Fogler Library http://libinfo.ume.maine.edu/Staff/mcleod.html <--- Staff page http://libinfo.ume.maine.edu/~mcleodj/ <--- Personal page "Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth." -- Katherine Mansfield From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Jun 3 15:08:36 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: A Minor Milestone Message-ID: <199606031926.PAA15451@ohiolink.edu> I have just entered the home page for the library at Manhattan College in the Libweb lists . With this entry, Libweb now lists one thousand library home pages. Keep them coming, folks! Thomas Dowling \ tdowling@ohiolink.edu Asst. Director, Client/Server Apps.\ 614/728-3600 x326 OhioLINK \ FAX 614/728-3610 From crebaza at ocean.st.usm.edu Mon Jun 3 16:50:49 1996 From: crebaza at ocean.st.usm.edu (Claudia Rebaza) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code Message-ID: Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to show the in the document source even though this was corrected four days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows up in more than one machine. I've also sometimes had a problem where sections of the document source blink, and the affected text does not show up on the browser. The only way I've been able to fix this in the past is by erasing the affected codes and text and retyping them (sometimes more than once). Since this blinking may extend to a whole paragraph of source, I'd prefer not to keep doing that :> Does anyone know why this may be happening? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudia Rebaza Cook Library Reference Department University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg crebaza@ocean.st.usm.edu & http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~crebaza/index.html From Rodrigue.Real at uqam.ca Mon Jun 3 17:22:54 1996 From: Rodrigue.Real at uqam.ca (Real Rodrigue) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code References: Message-ID: <31B357AD.6810@UQAM.CA> Claudia Rebaza wrote: > > Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a > coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an > "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to > show the in the document source even though this was corrected four > days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we > don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows > up in more than one machine. > > I've also sometimes had a problem where sections of the document source > blink, and the affected text does not show up on the browser. The only > way I've been able to fix this in the past is by erasing the affected > codes and text and retyping them (sometimes more than once). Since this > blinking may extend to a whole paragraph of source, I'd prefer not to > keep doing that :> > > Does anyone know why this may be happening? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claudia Rebaza > Cook Library Reference Department > University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg > crebaza@ocean.st.usm.edu & http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~crebaza/index.html I noticed this problem with NetScape 3.0b4. I managed to view my corrected HTML page by emptying the cache: even if I closed and reopened NetScape, the problem was still there. Emptying the cache solved it. -- _________________ | | Real Rodrigue | *** *** *** | Services informatises | *** *** *** | Service des bibliotheques | *** *** *** | Universite du Quebec a Montreal | *** *** *** | Tel.: 514-987-4554 | *** | << apres 17 juin 1996 / after June 17, 1996: | *** | 514-987-3000 poste / extension 4554 >> |_________________| FAX : 514-987-7787 Courrier electronique / E-Mail : Rodrigue.Real@UQAM.CA Page personnelle / Home page : http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/g17176/Real.html From sbero at nslsilus.org Mon Jun 3 17:47:14 1996 From: sbero at nslsilus.org (Steve Bero) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When marking up documents in HTML, one must be sure that for every opening tag there is a closing one. This applies also to the quotation marks that enclose links. I experienced that blinking/missing-text problem and was stymied until I discovered that I had neglected to put a closing quotation mark after an URL in an HREF. Hope this saves you a lot of retyping. ---------- Stephen P. Bero Reference Librarian Rolling Meadows Library 3110 Martin Lane Rolling Meadows, Illinois 60008-2698 Telephone: (847)259-6050 FAX: (847)259-5319 "The medicine chest of the soul." - Inscription over the door of the Library at Thebes. ---------- From crebaza at ocean.st.usm.edu Mon Jun 3 18:22:49 1996 From: crebaza at ocean.st.usm.edu (Claudia Rebaza) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Thanks for coding replies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to the dozens who popped up with suggestions about the cache and leaving a quotation mark open. I'd been puzzled because more than one computer had been retrieving the file with the error, but clearing all their caches worked. Obviously, I'll have to come up with more complicated mistakes to baffle readers of this listserv! :> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudia Rebaza Cook Library Reference Department University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg crebaza@ocean.st.usm.edu & http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~crebaza/index.html From hillaryh at sun470.sme.org Mon Jun 3 17:20:12 1996 From: hillaryh at sun470.sme.org (Hillary Handwerger) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you try hitting the reload button? If your system is set to never look beyond what it has in cache, it won't get to your changes. Check in Netscape, under Options, then under Preferences. Then check under Cache. If Verify Documents is set at never, the system will always assume the one it had originally is the one to use, so won't look for a newer version. Change Verify Document to Once per session. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hillary Handwerger hillaryh@sme.org Society of Manufacturing Engineers-- CoNDUIT Project 313 271-1500 ext 573 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Claudia Rebaza wrote: > Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a > coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an > "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to > show the in the document source even though this was corrected four > days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we > don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows > up in more than one machine. > > I've also sometimes had a problem where sections of the document source > blink, and the affected text does not show up on the browser. The only > way I've been able to fix this in the past is by erasing the affected > codes and text and retyping them (sometimes more than once). Since this > blinking may extend to a whole paragraph of source, I'd prefer not to > keep doing that :> > > Does anyone know why this may be happening? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Claudia Rebaza > Cook Library Reference Department > University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg > crebaza@ocean.st.usm.edu & http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~crebaza/index.html > > From narnett at Verity.COM Mon Jun 3 22:30:12 1996 From: narnett at Verity.COM (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: Agents (was Re: Students use of search engines) Message-ID: >(Also I presume within a year or two intelligent agents will be alerting us >about resources before we even knew we might be interested in the particular >subject of them.) I tend to think the same, but I'm curious what might be behind this. What information could an agent use to recommend resources that the user hadn't defined as interesting (which is how agents work today). I have some ideas, but I'd like to hear others before I toss mine around. I've just put writing a technical book on hold so that I can dig more deeply into related subjects. Nick From narnett at Verity.COM Mon Jun 3 22:30:19 1996 From: narnett at Verity.COM (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:53 2005 Subject: A few steps backwards Message-ID: I had a small epiphany at last week's distributed searching and indexing workshop sponsored by the W3 Consortium. It dawned on me that the technologists who dominate the Web (and I count myself among them) are asking librarians to compromise their standards to take advantage of the Web. And while I'll apologize for whatever feelings may be injured by that statement, I'll also explain why this might not be such a bad thing... or inevitable, perhaps. A fundamental problem is that library science has been in existence far longer and is far more developed than the Web. A simple way to explain the need for librarians to yield is that if you compromise what little there is that makes up the Web, not much would be left. The Web is so simple and unsophisticated that it doesn't allow much room for accomodation! The context of these thoughts last week was a debate, of sorts, between Web-heads and librarians who were calling for full-on Z39.50 implementation as the basis for distributed search and indexing. The Web-heads were mostly silent, shaking their heads, or explaining why that was too much trouble, thanks-very-much-anyway. (This is not to say that none of us are working on Z39.50; we are. It's a question of how much, when and for what purposes.) I think there's a historical precedent. When cheap paper arrived, thanks to the Italian paper mill nerds in the 15th century, as well as cheap reproduction technology, thanks to Gutenberg and his fellow nerds, publishers had to compromise a great deal to take advantage of the new, inexpensive distribution channel. Compared to the illustrated manuscripts that preceded it, the Gutenberg Bible was ugly, indeed. I have no doubt that librarians thought it an abomination. To me, the Internet is cheap paper; Web servers are printing presses. Last week in Cambridge, when the idea of "Z39.50 lite" was tossed out, one of the objections was "Don't bother, you'll just have to implement the whole thing later, anyway." I suspect that there were those who decided to wait until the printing press could handle colors before they'd use it, but they didn't see it happen in their lifetimes. This is not to say that outside of the Web-as-cheap-distribution-to-the-people that Z39.50 shouldn't charge right along, doing much more than it may in the popular context. But I suspect that we'll all do much better if we acknowledge that the Web is still based on very simple technology and needs to take small steps, not big ones. Unfortunately, this means that the Johnny-come-lately nerds won't compromise much, while far more experienced people compromise more. But as a technologist, I try to always bear in mind that everything we know about Gutenberg comes from his bankruptcy records; his contemporary, Aldus Manutius, who formed alliances with librarians, scholars and printers, succeeded in business. Nick From mazlumog at boun.edu.tr Wed Jun 5 11:22:01 1996 From: mazlumog at boun.edu.tr (Ismet Mazlumoglu) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <31B440F4.59E5@snymorva.cs.snymor.edu> Message-ID: > > > > > > Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a > > > coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an > > > "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to > > > show the in the document source even though this was corrected four > > > days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we > > > don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows > > > up in more than one machine. > > > I noticed this problem with NetScape 3.0b4. I managed to view my > > corrected HTML page by emptying the cache: even if I closed and reopened > > NetScape, the problem was still there. Emptying the cache solved it. > > > > THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BUG!!!!!! It is simply the way a cache works. Please excuse > the shouting. Clicking on reload may also show any changes you have made. It is a very > good idea to clear the cache on Netscape from time to time anyway. I set up the > autoexec.bat file on my PC to delete all the files in the netscape cache directory. It > does require me to respond with y for yes but that is okay. RIGHT!. Please don't remember that WWW Server is also has a cache. So try both clearing cache on Netscape and WWW Server. [----------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Ismet Mazlumoglu Internet: mazlumog@boun.edu.tr ] [ Bogazici University Library Bitnet : mazlumoi@trboun.bitnet ] [ Automation Section Phone : 212 - 263 15 40 ext.1530 ] [ B.U. Is Idaresi Bolumu ] [======================================================================] From weibel at oclc.org Wed Jun 5 07:19:19 1996 From: weibel at oclc.org (Stu Weibel) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: OCLC PURL vs. server redirect? Message-ID: <199606051119.HAA02450@ws02-00.rsch.oclc.org> Peter Gorman writes: > Since OCLC's PURL software uses standard HTTP redirects, something > just about any web server can do, I was wondering what specific > value there might be in maintaining a separate PURL server. One > advantage that comes to mind is the potential to put a nice > interface on the redirection function (as opposed to editing the > server's config files directly). I suppose that there could also be > an issue of the number of redirect statements a particular HTTP > server could handle in its config file. Peter's supposition is correct... one of the main advantages to using a PURL server is that it comes with a collection of utilities that support the management of URLs - a critical aspect of assuring the integrity and maintenance of links. > Can anyone comment on the performance of the PURL software vs., say, > the NCSA server? The routines that handle PURL resolution are integrated with the NCSA HTTPd 1.5.1 code (because it can be redistributed and is still among the most popular HTTP servers). This gives us the benefit of having a full-fledged HTTP server available as well as all the time and thought that has gone into the NCSA server. There are many benefits to running multiple HTTP servers, such as load balancing. Most large organizations run multiple HTTP servers. Running a PURL server in addition to other servers is merely a resource allocation issue. A PURL server (since it's a modified NCSA server) can easily support PURL resolution and document serving. Without statistics on the number of documents that need to be served, the number of PURL resolutions required, and hardware being used, it is difficult to say whether or not a PURL server should be the primary HTTP server for a site. At OCLC, we keep the PURL server separate from the main OCLC HTTP server, but do allow it to serve a limited number of documents directly. One last point... there is an intangible benefit to the recognition of "purl" in a URL address like http://purl.foo.edu/stuff. If PURLs are widely adopted, then seeing a URL with "purl" in the domain name suggests that the link is a managed link, maintained by an organization with a commitment to the persistence of access. It is the sort of thing libraries do. The PURL team purl@oclc.org From carol.lagundo at arch2.nara.gov Wed Jun 5 08:15:06 1996 From: carol.lagundo at arch2.nara.gov (Carol Lagundo) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: Fledgling webmaster needs a good introductory book on Perl. Previous experience in programming in COBOL, FORTRAN, compiled basic, and C++ (minor experience). Book should give complete syntax and programming dictionary, with some limited examples (more complex than "Hello World from C", less complex than writing a proprietary DBMS using existing object - about the level of a simple Shell sort should do it). Reply to marc.wolfe@arch2.nara.gov, or webmaster@shfg.org. Thanks in advance. From dlking at ocean.st.usm.edu Wed Jun 5 09:11:05 1996 From: dlking at ocean.st.usm.edu (David L. King) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I fully and wholeheartedly agree with Gail Wanner. We should not > *try* to adapt students and the public to the Internet; we should adapt > the Internet to them. When students generally, and the general public, > start using the Internet with the "Network Computer" Internet Appliance, > they will want it to be easy and convenient using a TV remote - point > and press. I agree to a certain extent, but this view leaves out the practical, day-to-day operation of a library. For example, we're getting people at the reference desk almost every day who want to know how to use WWW search engines - should I teach them how, or should I instead call up Lycos and complain that their search engine is difficult to use? Probably both, but I think you see my point. This isn't an "either/or" issue. ************************************************** David King Electronic Services Librarian University of Southern Mississippi dlking@ocean.st.usm.edu http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~dlking/ ************************************************** From scramer at davenport.edu Wed Jun 5 09:48:42 1996 From: scramer at davenport.edu (Steve Cramer) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: TV versus the Web (Re: Students use of search engines ) Message-ID: [I'm sorry, I've lost track of who wrote this] "When students generally, and the general public, start using the Internet with the "Network Computer" Internet Appliance, they will want it to be easy and convenient using a TV remote - point and press." ______________________________ An interesting idea. However, the Internet will never be as "easy and convient" as TV. TV is a *passive* entertainment medium (and sometimes an information media, but it's still passive information-gathering). It's supposed to be simple to use, because that's the nature of passivity. OTOH, the Internet is an *interactive* communications and information medium, requiring self-direction and personal choice. Activity requires work. Hence the need to teach the often complex nature of finding information, especially when a particular information resource (like the Internet) lacks value-added tools like subject headings, classification, and evaluation. Steve Cramer Library, Davenport College of Business Holland, Michigan USA scramer@davenport.edu From mtheobal at velcome.iupui.edu Wed Jun 5 09:49:46 1996 From: mtheobal at velcome.iupui.edu (Matt Theobald) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings, There have ben several instances of this in my wnHTML coding which required me to cut and paste large sections into a new document. One of the possible problems were that I was editing the documents between the text editor I had available at the time I wanted to edit. Subsequently, one document would be created in Word, edited in pico or simple text and back to word. Along the way, I think I picked soemthing up. Is this tru with your scenario? Hope this helps, Matt . . . . . . . . . . . . . Matthew Theobald --------------- * Connecting . . Internet Information Specialist Your Mind . . Student: IU SLIS with the Body . . Ring 317.635.4432 of Knowledge . . . . . . . . . . . . Sincerely, Matt On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Ismet Mazlumoglu wrote: > > > > > > > > Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a > > > > coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an > > > > "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to > > > > show the in the document source even though this was corrected four > > > > days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we > > > > don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows > > > > up in more than one machine. > > > > > I noticed this problem with NetScape 3.0b4. I managed to view my > > > corrected HTML page by emptying the cache: even if I closed and reopened > > > NetScape, the problem was still there. Emptying the cache solved it. > > > > > > > THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BUG!!!!!! It is simply the way a cache works. Please excuse > > the shouting. Clicking on reload may also show any changes you have made. It is a very > > good idea to clear the cache on Netscape from time to time anyway. I set up the > > autoexec.bat file on my PC to delete all the files in the netscape cache directory. It > > does require me to respond with y for yes but that is okay. > > RIGHT!. Please don't remember that WWW Server is also has a cache. So try > both clearing cache on Netscape and WWW Server. > > [----------------------------------------------------------------------] > [ Ismet Mazlumoglu Internet: mazlumog@boun.edu.tr ] > [ Bogazici University Library Bitnet : mazlumoi@trboun.bitnet ] > [ Automation Section Phone : 212 - 263 15 40 ext.1530 ] > [ B.U. Is Idaresi Bolumu ] > [======================================================================] > > From isjrk at emory.edu Wed Jun 5 09:39:46 1996 From: isjrk at emory.edu (Jim Kruse) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: Try Learning Perl by Randal L. Schwartz from O'Reilly & Associates and Programming Perl by Larry Wall and Randal l. Schartz from O'Reilly & Associates On 5 Jun 1996 Carol Lagundo wrote: > Fledgling webmaster needs a good introductory book on > Perl. Previous experience in programming in COBOL, > FORTRAN, compiled basic, and C++ (minor experience). > > Book should give complete syntax and programming > dictionary, with some limited examples (more complex than > "Hello World from C", less complex than writing a proprietary > DBMS using existing object - about the level of a simple > Shell sort should do it). > > Reply to marc.wolfe@arch2.nara.gov, or > webmaster@shfg.org. > > Thanks in advance. > ---------------------- Jim Kruse isjrk@emory.edu From g-fout at maroon.tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 4 20:49:00 1996 From: g-fout at maroon.tc.umn.edu (Gary Fouty) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: a few steps together Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960605004900.28b7ee44@maroon.tc.umn.edu> To pick up on remarks of Nick Arnett and Gail Wanner, I think the goal is for librarians and techies to work together to make information products easy to use, with the details transparent to the user. I am a bit disturbed by the attitude of some that simple keyword searching of full text will suffice. I even heard one of the Gopher developers remark about that distant time when full-text searching was first developed (back in 1992!!!). On the other hand one of the young programmers working on our University Web site came up with the great idea of page developers on campus using keywords to describe their pages so the search engine could function better. Similarly, I recently heard of a commercial outfit working on an extension of HTML to include content description based on controlled vocabulary!! (The notion being that if businesses want to be found on the Web they will benefit from being well-indexed.) Well, glory be! How many decades have we been doing this sort of thing in libraries? My point is that information retrieval has a history and it contains some enduring concepts that can contribute to the ongoing dialog. At the same time we are in a new computing environment that calls for new ways of doing things. Both 'sides' can contribute to future progress. Gary Fouty Science/Engineering Library 108 Walter Library Univ. Minnesota -- Twin Cities 117 Pleasant St. S.E. #108 (612)-624-1851 Minneapolis MN 55455 g-fout@tc.umn.edu From danforth at tiac.net Wed Jun 5 10:58:36 1996 From: danforth at tiac.net (danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: looking for info in UK Message-ID: <199606051506.LAA19400@sunspot.tiac.net> Can anyone explain the meaning of the following degree? MScEcon (1st qualification) in Information & Library Studies This is offered at University of Wales, Aberystwyth. Is it equivalent to MLS degree here in the States in terms of employability? Thanks. Isabel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Co-Director of Librarians' Online Support Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Wed Jun 5 11:56:20 1996 From: SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV (KAREN SCHNEIDER) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book -Reply Message-ID: O'Reilly's latest book on CGI applications would probably apply as well, as would Deep and Holfelder, Developing CGI Applications with Perl, by Wiley. (You could ILL the second from us--we're EIA in OCLC--the first is on long-term loan to the Computer People.) kg schneider schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov opinions mine alone From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Wed Jun 5 13:17:16 1996 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: I suppose I should send my two cents worth to the listserv and start a raging debate over PERL vs. JavaScript... Everyone claims the "Llama" and "Camel" books are the best. >Learning Perl >by Randal L. Schwartz >from O'Reilly & Associates > >and > >Programming Perl >by Larry Wall and Randal l. Schartz >from O'Reilly & Associates > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into yucky old PERL. It allows for manipulation of data as well as other kinds of cool stuff on the client side (using Netscape 2.0 and above) versus being server driven. We are teaching ourselves JavaScript using Danny Goodman's book. There is a group of 13 or 14 students, staff and professors. We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. As a non-programmer, I took one look at PERL and said "no way." I am finding JavaScript very approachable and with immediate results. Another big plus for JavaScript, it debugs!! Good luck debugging a PERL script. Nuff said. I would do some research before I put alot of time into PERL. Do some quick research to compare capabilities and decide exactly what it is that you need to do. Good luck. >Fledgling webmaster needs a good introductory book on >Perl. Previous experience in programming in COBOL, >FORTRAN, compiled basic, and C++ (minor experience). Linda Woods Hyman-Education First Initiative Pacific Bell/San Diego State University Dept. of Educational Technology San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired From walterg at yorku.ca Wed Jun 5 13:35:39 1996 From: walterg at yorku.ca (Walter Giesbrecht) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Linda Hyman wrote: > I suppose I should send my two cents worth to the listserv and start a > raging debate over PERL vs. JavaScript... > [citations to two Perl books deleted] > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > yucky old PERL. ... stuff deleted ... > We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. > > As a non-programmer, I took one look at PERL and said "no way." I am > finding JavaScript very approachable and with immediate results. Another > big plus for JavaScript, it debugs!! Good luck debugging a PERL script. > Nuff said. I would do some research before I put alot of time into PERL. > Do some quick research to compare capabilities and decide exactly what it > is that you need to do. Good luck. > The problem with all of this is that *every* browser (I think) can initiate the execution of a Perl script; Javascript is restricted (again, I *think*) to Netscape versions 2 and up. Unless you want the bells and whistles accessible to only this subset of your users, you'd better know something about Perl (or C, I guess) or have only static web pages. Javascript probably won't be usable by the majority of users for at least 2-3 Web years (i.e., 6 months in human years). Oh, what the hell -- learn both and have some fun. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Walter W. Giesbrecht walterg@yorku.ca York University Libraries North York, Ontario, Canada From isjrk at emory.edu Wed Jun 5 13:42:15 1996 From: isjrk at emory.edu (Jim Kruse) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: A lot of which is determined by who your audience is. Are they running Java capable browsers. There are still a lot of people using Lynx(text based Browser) as their browser. Put your time and effort into developing for the capabilities of your target audiance. Just realize that the capabilities of your target audience are constantly changing. If you don't have something operational in 3 - 6 months, you may need to reevaluate. On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:21:49 -0700 Linda Hyman wrote: > I suppose I should send my two cents worth to the listserv and start a > raging debate over PERL vs. JavaScript... > > Everyone claims the "Llama" and "Camel" books are the best. > > >Learning Perl > >by Randal L. Schwartz > >from O'Reilly & Associates > > > >and > > > >Programming Perl > >by Larry Wall and Randal l. Schartz > >from O'Reilly & Associates > > > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > yucky old PERL. It allows for manipulation of data as well as other kinds > of cool stuff on the client side (using Netscape 2.0 and above) versus > being server driven. We are teaching ourselves JavaScript using Danny > Goodman's book. There is a group of 13 or 14 students, staff and > professors. We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. > > As a non-programmer, I took one look at PERL and said "no way." I am > finding JavaScript very approachable and with immediate results. Another > big plus for JavaScript, it debugs!! Good luck debugging a PERL script. > Nuff said. I would do some research before I put alot of time into PERL. > Do some quick research to compare capabilities and decide exactly what it > is that you need to do. Good luck. > > > > >Fledgling webmaster needs a good introductory book on > >Perl. Previous experience in programming in COBOL, > >FORTRAN, compiled basic, and C++ (minor experience). > > Linda Woods Hyman-Education First Initiative > Pacific Bell/San Diego State University > Dept. of Educational Technology > San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 > e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu > http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired > > ---------------------- Jim Kruse isjrk@emory.edu From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Jun 5 13:47:14 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: <199606051748.NAA05335@ohiolink.edu> > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > yucky old PERL. It allows for manipulation of data as well as other kinds > of cool stuff on the client side (using Netscape 2.0 and above) versus > being server driven. We are teaching ourselves JavaScript using Danny > Goodman's book. There is a group of 13 or 14 students, staff and > professors. We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. The comparative yuckiness of available languages doesn't really affect the decision of whether to run an app on the server or the client. What I see as imminent is the development of powerful building blocks for non-programmers, written by professionals in standard, open languages like perl and java proper--which is of course derived from C++, the Tres Grande Yuck of languages. Javascript is likely to hang around, but whenever I think of people investing a lot of time in it, I hear a little voice saying things like "Visual Basic" and "Installed Base". WWW Indexing services aren't the only people reinventing the wheel. OBbook recommendation: I live by the Llama Book. One of my coworkers swears by Teach Yourself PERL in 21 Days. -- Thomas Dowling \ tdowling@ohiolink.edu Asst. Director, Client/Server Apps.\ 614/728-3600 x326 OhioLINK \ FAX 614/728-3610 From isjrk at emory.edu Wed Jun 5 13:47:15 1996 From: isjrk at emory.edu (Jim Kruse) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book -Reply Message-ID: It's a little unsettling to realize that by the time a book is on the shelf, you by it, and have time to read it, things have changed. On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:56:20 -0400 KAREN SCHNEIDER wrote: > O'Reilly's latest book on CGI applications would probably apply as > well, as would Deep and Holfelder, Developing CGI Applications with > Perl, by Wiley. (You could ILL the second from us--we're EIA in > OCLC--the first is on long-term loan to the Computer People.) > > kg schneider > schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov > opinions mine alone ---------------------- Jim Kruse isjrk@emory.edu From heather_reid at harvard.edu Wed Jun 5 13:59:56 1996 From: heather_reid at harvard.edu (Heather J. Reid) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Job posting Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960605140430.346fa090@elmer.harvard.edu> Harvard University Library Office for Information Systems Position: UNIX Systems Administrator/Programmer OIS is a dynamic and challenging work environment and is increasingly involved in the development and support of UNIX-based applications. Coherent management and support of UNIX systems has become vital. The UNIX system administrator/programmer will serve as a senior resource person for UNIX support functions. Responsibilities will include: * acting as system administrator for 7+ UNIX servers; * consulting with applications and operations staff to assist in establishing a coherent development and production environment; * installing, maintaining and customizing utilities and services; * providing application operations support for UNIX-based applications; * serving as a consultant on development projects; * tracking industry trends and advising management accordingly; * some off-hours support for triaging server crises for production systems. Requirements: B.S. (Or equivalent experience) with at least two years of UNIX system administration experience; experience in C and shell programming; strong telecommunications skills, experience supporting TCP/IP; experience with Internet applications (e.g., WW, gopher); strong interpersonal and organizational skills; disciplined approach to systems management and documentation Desired: Experience with a variety of flavors of UNIX; work experience in a heterogeneous computing environment (mainframes/PCs); proven expertise in maintaining stable production UNIX systems. Available immediately. Salary range: high $30,000's - mid-$40,000's, depending on experience and skills. Send resume and cover letter to Linda Marean, Harvard University Library, 1280 Mass. Ave. Suite 404, Cambridge MA 02138 email: linda_marean@harvard.edu (June 4th, 1996) > From pem at po.CWRU.Edu Wed Jun 5 14:29:47 1996 From: pem at po.CWRU.Edu (Peter Murray) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Walter Giesbrecht wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Linda Hyman wrote: > > I suppose I should send my two cents worth to the listserv and start a > > raging debate over PERL vs. JavaScript... > > [citations to two Perl books deleted] The only comment that I have about the second PERL book is that a new version is coming out in August. The new version of "Programming PERL" will cover new stuff that came in the 5.xxx version of PERL (the earlier book was based on version 4.036 of PERL). The first book, "Learning PERL", is pretty good for both versions. Check out O'Reilly's web site for more info on either book: http://www.ora.com/ > > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > > yucky old PERL. > > .. stuff deleted ... > > > We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. Well, if you wanted to start a debate, here it is. I don't think PERL is going to be _replaced_ any time soon by Java. It is a very easy to learn, portable, and quick language to write applications. It is an excellent language for writing CGI scripts; there are a lot of free modules available on the net to assist in writing CGI programs. A downside to the language, though, is it is somewhat hard to read...it uses many symbols and short commands. But it is a very powerful language. With regards to Linda's comments about the debugger...I suggest she take a quick look through the manual page: http://www.perl.com/CPAN/doc/manual/html/perldebug.html As with the rest of PERL, it is a line-by-line (not graphical) debugger, but is pretty complete in the features it offers... > The problem with all of this is that *every* browser (I think) can > initiate the execution of a Perl script; Javascript is restricted (again, > I *think*) to Netscape versions 2 and up. Unless you want the bells and > whistles accessible to only this subset of your users, you'd better know > something about Perl (or C, I guess) or have only static web pages. > Javascript probably won't be usable by the majority of users for at least > 2-3 Web years (i.e., 6 months in human years). I think there is some confusion in this. These are the facts: * ANY BROWSER can ask a _server_ to run a CGI script, whether that script is in PERL, C, or anything else. [see note #1] * NETSCAPE BROWSERS (version 2.0 and higher) can execute "JavaScript"s on the _client_. The JavaScript is imbeded in the HTML of the page, and is run on the _client_, not the _server_. [see note #2] * FUTURE BROWSERS, in general, will be able to execute Java scripts on the _client_ that will be able to talk to Java scripts on the _server_. (Note...this is a pretty general statement.) So, you can run CGIs in your server in nearly any language you please. This is usuful for database applications, shopping carts, etc...things that need to run on the server end. These are not the type of things you'll run on the client end with Java or JavaScript. (To all, please correct the facts if I got them wrong). NOTES #1 As far as I know, no one has written a CGI interface for Java running on a server platform. #2 JavaScript is a subset of Java, and cannot be used to execute true Java scripts. From Netscape's documentation: "Based on the Java language, JavaScript extends the programmatic capabilities of Netscape Navigator to a wide range of authors and is easy enough for anyone who can compose HTML. Use JavaScript to glue HTML, inline plug-ins, and Java applets to each other." (from http://www.netscape.com/comprod/ products/navigator/version_2.0/script/index.html). In terms of Java support in Netscape: "Netscape Navigator 2.0 supports Java on Sun Solaris, Sun OS, SGI IRIX, OSF/1, HP-UX, Windows NT, and Windows 95 platforms. Netscape anticipates shipping Java support for Windows 3.1, Macintosh, and AIX in the second quarter of 1996." (from http://www.netscape.com/comprod/products/navigator/ version_2.0/java_applets/index.html). Peter -- Peter Murray, Senior Systems Analyst pem@po.cwru.edu Library Information Technologies http://www.cwru.edu/home/pem.html Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio W:216-368-8989 From isjrk at emory.edu Wed Jun 5 14:23:46 1996 From: isjrk at emory.edu (Jim Kruse) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book -Reply Message-ID: I really hate it when I miss-key something and the spell checker miss it. On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:10:19 -0700 Jim Kruse wrote: > It's a little unsettling to realize that by the time a > book is on the shelf, you by it, and have time to read > BUY > it, things have changed. > > On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:56:20 -0400 KAREN SCHNEIDER > wrote: > > > O'Reilly's latest > book on CGI applications would probably apply as > > well, as would Deep and Holfelder, Developing CGI Applications with > > Perl, by Wiley. (You could ILL the second from us--we're EIA in > > OCLC--the first is on long-term loan to the Computer People.) > > > > kg schneider > > schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov > > opinions mine alone > > ---------------------- > Jim Kruse > isjrk@emory.edu > ---------------------- Jim Kruse isjrk@emory.edu From jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu Wed Jun 5 14:50:30 1996 From: jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book -Reply In-Reply-To: from "Jim Kruse" at Jun 5, 96 11:13:42 am Message-ID: <199606051850.NAA19865@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> Yeah. But I still benefit from my DOS skills, my first exposure to computing. :-) Jian Indiana University Libraries > > It's a little unsettling to realize that by the time a book > is on the shelf, you by it, and have time to read it, > things have changed. > > On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 11:56:20 -0400 KAREN SCHNEIDER > wrote: > > > O'Reilly's latest > book on CGI applications would probably apply as > > well, as would Deep and Holfelder, Developing CGI Applications with > > Perl, by Wiley. (You could ILL the second from us--we're EIA in > > OCLC--the first is on long-term loan to the Computer People.) > > > > kg schneider > > schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov > > opinions mine alone > > ---------------------- > Jim Kruse > isjrk@emory.edu > > > From nahl at hawaii.edu Wed Jun 5 15:17:03 1996 From: nahl at hawaii.edu (Diane Nahl) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am currently involved in a study of how students use web search engines. Twenty undergrads without any web or Internet experience are in a summer social psychology course that uses the web as its focus. The students have to put up home pages and deposit all of their assignments there, etc. I will have detailed information from the sstudents on their particular experience using search engines. Some preliminary observations on novices learning Web search engines: The first problem novices encounter is "what is a search engine?" Next, "What are these things?" (On a page listing the various engines it isn't clear that each one is a link to a certain search engine.) Next, "how do I choose one?" from a list of them (Netscape's list or a longer list I maintain, or other available lists). Next, "what do I type?" (The conceptual analysis problem, natural language problem, etc.) Next, "I don't see what I got." (They often just do not see the postings on the screen--a kind of screen blindness effect. The screens are highly organized and THE MOST prominent thing is often an advertisement that has, of course, nothing to do with the search, so they wonder aloud, "what's this doing here?", and miss the postings.) Next, "What are these things?" (The default description is not clear enough as to what it is going to be about, so is it relevant?) Next, "Why is this stuff here?" "What does this have to do with the topic?" (Their search terms were too broad, narrow, numerous; they did not select any options to control the precision; they did not see the options at all--screen blindness; they did not look for options; they did not think about how to describe their topic for the search; they extracted words directly from the topic statement they chose; they did not explore any links in the retrieved set to see what it it about and how it might relate, or not, to their topic,etc.) If there is interest, I will summarize the findings for this list after the analysis is complete later this summer. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Dr. Diane Nahl, Assistant Professor _/ From now _/ _/ School of Library and Information Studies _/ on we _/ _/ University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822 _/ are all _/ _/ http://www2.hawaii.edu/slis/nahl/nahl.html _/ lifelong _/ _/ voicemail: 808-956-5809 FAX: 808-956-5835 _/ novices. _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Wed Jun 5 15:19:10 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: <01I5JYRU7F8I007Z1K@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into >yucky old PERL. It allows for manipulation of data as well as other kinds >of cool stuff on the client side (using Netscape 2.0 and above) versus >being server driven. We are teaching ourselves JavaScript using Danny >Goodman's book. There is a group of 13 or 14 students, staff and >professors. We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. > Oh - I'll tell all of the perl programmer's out there to start updating their skill set... ;-) Seriously though, I don't see Javascript as supplanting Perl in any way. You said yourself that Javascript will do _client_side_ work on _Netscape_. You've limited your audience right there. Perl (or any other language on a server) will handle all clients from Lynx to Netscape to (gak) MS Internet Explorer. Netscape does not intend for Javascript to supplant Perl. It is supposed to allow the client to handle the mundane tasks (data verification) so that the server can be freed up for more interesting and difficult scripting - such as serving custom pages. There will be many uses for perl on the server side of the equation. If anything will supplant Perl it will be automated clinet-server interfaces (perhaps SQL based) to backend relational databases. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If you board the wrong train, Bill Crosbie it's no use running along the Microcomputer Analyst corridor in the other direction. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Dietrich Bonhoeffer crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From choward at iastate.edu Wed Jun 5 16:36:15 1996 From: choward at iastate.edu (Chris Howard) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Javascript Message-ID: <1E71A9E712C@staff1.lib.iastate.edu> > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:41:29 -0700 > Reply-to: walterg@yorku.ca > From: Walter Giesbrecht > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Recommend a book Walter Giesbrecht wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Linda Hyman wrote: > > > I suppose I should send my two cents worth to the listserv and start a > > raging debate over PERL vs. JavaScript... > > > > [citations to two Perl books deleted] > > > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > > yucky old PERL. > > .. stuff deleted ... > > > We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. > > > > As a non-programmer, I took one look at PERL and said "no way." I am > > finding JavaScript very approachable and with immediate results. Another > > big plus for JavaScript, it debugs!! Good luck debugging a PERL script. > > Nuff said. I would do some research before I put alot of time into PERL. > > Do some quick research to compare capabilities and decide exactly what it > > is that you need to do. Good luck. Another issue with Javascript is the reports of security holes that allow a script to access information on the user's computer. I've recommendations from people I respect, telling users to turn off Javascript in their browser. Do your users trust you enough to run your program on their computer? And a p.s. for Perl documentation: the "manual" for Perl 5 is available on the net in Postscript format. It wouldn't be my first choice as a training guide, but it's a must for a Perl programmer. -- Chris Howard choward@iastate.edu (515) 294-6521 Iowa State University Library -- Automated Systems Division From jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 5 15:43:29 1996 From: jqj at darkwing.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: more on Javascript, Perl, et alia Message-ID: <199606051943.MAA04442@darkwing.uoregon.edu> As several people on this list have noted, it's useful to distinguish between server-side and client-side execution (even though some applications of dynamic web pages might be implemented either way). Perl is indeed the most popular current language for writing server-side scripts, but there are alternatives, among them: - Java. We're starting to see talk of Java "servlets" that would run on the server, interact with other Java servlets on other servers, and provide a server-side execution environment that was very compatible with client-side Java applets [see news stories from Sun's JavaOne conference this week for details] - database interfaces. It's now common for commercial vendors to offer custom packages that allow server-side programming that allows easy integration with server-side databases. Cold fusion is a typical example. - any other programming language supported by your web server. If you have a non-Unix web server, Perl may not even be a viable choice. On the client side, it's more complex. In addition to Javascript (which is not, by the way, a subset of Java, though it has a few syntactic similarities), you should watch for: - Java - Microsoft's ActiveX architecture -- an alternative to Java that provides (insecure!) integration with any OLE-compatible application, if your browser happens to be running on a wintel platform - the programming capabilities built into essentially every one of the plugin extension languages currently being touted on the web. For example, instead of programming your client-side animation in Java, why not program in Macromedia Director? My personal opinion of the near-term future: - Perl will stay with us for a while as the preferred language for quick and dirty CGI applications on Unix servers. But you won't see the next generation of big elaborate CGI applications written in Perl. - Java will be very very important, both on client and server sides - Javascript will disappear (too many security problems; not compatible with MSIE; poor language design) - ActiveX will be important, but more so in corporate intranets than in academia (due to security issues and cross-platform incompatibility) - the web will fragment, with much more variety of programming environment and document formats than we see today. JQ Johnson office: 115F Knight Library Academic Education Coordinator Internet: jqj@darkwing.uoregon.edu 1299 University of Oregon v: 541.346.1746; fax: 541.346.3485 Eugene, OR 97403-1299 From anne at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:39:45 1996 From: anne at yahoo.com (Anne Callery) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Classifying Web Sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter Kumaschow wrote: > The identify search engine provides a neat solution: get the creator of the document to classify > their own pages. Perhaps we could put the Library of Congress Classification codes in there as > well. Perhaps we could use meta tags rather than the identify system. We would need the libraries > to provide the resources to make it easy for authors to classify their creations (and to classify > materials that are not electronic or have not been classified). And we would need authoring tools > to facilitate insertion of the appropriate mark up. > > It's a big job but we need some method of doing this. And it would be easier if we all did it > together. I'm not suggesting that we classify all the private and personal home pages or pages > like the Lesbian Barbie home page (what's the LCC for that?!), maybe only sites that publish > "quality" information need be classified and the rest can be left to search engines like Yahoo > etc etc. I think the question of "what kind of pages to list" would be a big one here. Letting users classify their own pages will pretty much defeat the purpose of having an organized list. More and more commercial entities are coming on to the web now; they see it as a new form of advertising and business promotion. If you let them categorize themselves, your catalog would be a mess... At Yahoo!, we do ask users to suggest a category when submitting sites. This helps us to organize the huge amount of submissions we receive (it's easier and more efficient to work with a lot of things in one area for a while than to constantly skip around the whole hierarchy). However, these suggestions are just that -- a cataloger needs to look at the site to make sure it's in the right place. Sometimes users just don't know about a more appropriate category; sometimes their idea of what belongs in a category is a little skewed. (I like the Texas Beef Council example: they submitted to Health/Fitness.) One trend we see here is that people often don't get specific enough. For example, a site about the US Civil War would go in Arts/Humanities/History/American History/19th Century/Civil War, but the user might submit the site to just Arts/Humanities/History. If users were self-classifying their sites, we would have a big clump of all sorts of things at these higher levels, defeating the purpose of having subcategories to organize them. Anyway, just my two cents... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Anne Callery Yahoo! anne@yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Wed Jun 5 15:49:25 1996 From: NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA (Alain Vaillancourt) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: a few steps together Message-ID: <199606051954.PAA23782@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> > From: Gary Fouty > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: a few steps together > > To pick up on remarks of Nick Arnett and Gail Wanner, I think the goal is > for librarians and techies to work together to make information products > easy to use, with the details transparent to the user. I am a bit disturbed > by the attitude of some that simple keyword searching of full text will > suffice. I even heard one of the Gopher developers remark about that > distant time when full-text searching was first developed (back in 1992!!!). In any discipline, quite a few individuals are unaware of its past. Programmers have been making computer generated indexes for about 40 years. One of the biggest and most important undertakings in the History of Computing was in the early 60s when Univac-Sperry and IBM slugged it out in court for the title of legal inventor of electronic computing, and central to this slugfest was a computer generated index of all the documents used during the court proceedings. Au revoir! Alain Vaillancourt From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Wed Jun 5 16:51:06 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: a few steps together Message-ID: <3EF590E0C5C@gee.natlib.govt.nz> > To pick up on remarks of Nick Arnett and Gail Wanner, I think the goal is > for librarians and techies to work together to make information products > easy to use, with the details transparent to the user. My 2c worth - I think we should include in any design team graphic, information and user interface designers. These people also have a long history of dealing with information to make it easy to use etc. In this day and age, I think librarians or technical people don't have a premium on how information is managed, made accessible etc. In this age I really wonder what the core competency of librarians is - you hear people say that librarians can help people navigate through a mass of information etc. but that maybe because librarians created these systems in the first place. Anyway Paul Saffo sums it up in a 'Wired' article - It's the context... http://www.hotwired.com/wired/2.03/departments/idees.fortes/context.html Is subject classification, by Dewey & LCSH, adequate as a means of providing context? Also, I sometimes wonder if librarians could be accused of media imperialism - http://www.hotwired.com/wired/3.02/departments/electrosphere/ diller.html I am not flaming anyone here but with what's happening on the Internet and the Web, in particular, it makes me really think again about what a librarian is and their role - and this a question I haven't come to any conclusion on! BTW - I started my library career as a cataloguer! Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu Wed Jun 5 16:47:38 1996 From: lhyman at mail.sdsu.edu (Linda Hyman) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book Message-ID: Wow, have I ever gotten a Perl education in the last hour or so ...tee hee! It's what I love about the net though. There are alot of people out there who have responded. How about specifically listing some advantages and disadvantages of Perl and JavaScript? We might as well turn this into a focused learning opportunity, and then we'll have the beginnings of a good comparative list on our Web4Lib archive for later reference. This last response is a good start. My original, broad statement-- >> You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into >>yucky old PERL. Last response I've received--(PS, what does "gak" mean? Is that some new computer lingo? ...only kidding) >Seriously though, I don't see Javascript as supplanting Perl in any way. >You said yourself that Javascript will do _client_side_ work on _Netscape_. >You've limited your audience right there. Perl (or any other language on a >server) will handle all clients from Lynx to Netscape to (gak) MS Internet >Explorer. > >Netscape does not intend for Javascript to supplant Perl. It is supposed to >allow the client to handle the mundane tasks (data verification) so that the >server can be freed up for more interesting and difficult scripting - such >as serving custom pages. There will be many uses for perl on the server >side of the equation. > >If anything will supplant Perl it will be automated clinet-server interfaces >(perhaps SQL based) to backend relational databases. Linda Woods Hyman-Education First Initiative Pacific Bell/San Diego State University Dept. of Educational Technology San Diego CA 92182 (619) 594-4414 e-mail: lhyman@mail.sdsu.edu http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired From thom at copper.ucs.indiana.edu Wed Jun 5 16:50:50 1996 From: thom at copper.ucs.indiana.edu (The Big Glee Bopper) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Linda Hyman wrote: > You might want to check out JavaScript though before you go to deeply into > yucky old PERL. It allows for manipulation of data as well as other kinds > of cool stuff on the client side (using Netscape 2.0 and above) versus > being server driven. We are teaching ourselves JavaScript using Danny > Goodman's book. There is a group of 13 or 14 students, staff and > professors. We see the demise of PERL imminent except for special uses. > As a non-programmer, I took one look at PERL and said "no way." I am > finding JavaScript very approachable and with immediate results. Another > big plus for JavaScript, it debugs!! Good luck debugging a PERL script. > Nuff said. I would do some research before I put alot of time into PERL. I can understanding folks _wanting_ perl to disappear but this isn't going to happen for a number of reasons. By the end of next year anyone who calls them self a webmaster/meister/mistress will know and use: html, javascript, java, perl, lingo, and probably visual basic for vb script. For background cgi-bin processing perl is fast and very good at it's job. Perl should be known just so you can get a job in the next year. Javascript only works within html and is designed not to read or write files for security reasons so by default it is an interface tool. Javascript is sorta like a really dumb version of hyperTalk. Possibility that Netscape offers up javascript as a future extension to html just to head off Microsoft from doing the same with vb script. Java is C++-- as they say which means if you are a novice you are looking at 10 months before the lightbulb glows. If you know C++ it will glow sooner and if you already know C you will need a new lightbulb period. Lingo is not for the graphic challenged folks which are most folks reading this message. Lingo is Director's programming language and the lead in to Shockwave which goes way beyond eye candy. If you an artist or a nusician or a storyteller or a videographer who wants to make really big bucks -- no not dollar bills scanned at 300% on the xerox -- then get the student edition for $90, take a week out of your life, read Callery's "LEARNING LINGO", and send your resume in to DreamWorks. A little hyperbolic! If you are graphic challenged and a webster then befriend an artist/musician. Visual Basic is a sin or a disease which will not go away and will re-incarnate as vb script and probably be important I'm sorry to say. I'd also recommend starting on vrml on the week ends. Everything mentioned above will be part of updates to the MCPL project in ole southern Indiana in a very short period of time. You know what they say: the future happens first in southern Indiana and then flows east and west to the rest of the US. --Thom who never met a programming language he didn't love. p.s. Thom's quick Bib to fame and fortune: Lingo Callery. Learning Lingo. Addison-Wesley. 0-201-87043-6 Musciana & Kennedy. HTML, The Definitive Guide.O'Reilly. 1-56592-175-5 Java Rodley. Writing Java Applets. Corolis. 1-883577-78-0 Lemay & Perkins. Teach yourself Java in 21 Days. SAMS. 1-57521-030-4 Java & Javasript Manger. Essential Java* 0-07-709292-9 Perl Brenner & Aoki. Introduction to CGI/Perl. M&T. 1-55851-478-3 Gundavaram. GCI Programming on the World Wide Web. O'Reilly. 1-56592-168-2 Till. Teach yourself Perl in 21 Days. SAMS. 0-672-30586-0 VRML Smith, Boyd, & Scott. Virtus VRML Toolkit. Hayden. 1-56830-247-9 Design which ties it all together Sano. Desiging Large-Scale Web Sites. Wiley. 0-471-14276-X Weinman. . New Riders. 1-56205-532-1 From NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Wed Jun 5 16:55:30 1996 From: NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA (Alain Vaillancourt) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Classifying Web Sites Message-ID: <199606052102.RAA03148@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> > > Anyway I just need some feedback on what's been running around in my head for the past couple of > weeks and this seems like a good place to do it. What do you think? > Great idea to have the creators of pages classify it themselves but impossible to ask them to do it with the LC classification with the current tools available. The LC classification is is a hierarchical enumerative monster. No deviation from the norm is possible, so only full-time cataloguers (okay maybe ex-fultimers doing it 20 hours a week) can possibly use it right. Unless of course you developped some kind of simple "classifying by example" program that would connect to a huge database of all possible examples for LC classification codes. And even that would not be enough to make the LC classification easy to apply by the profane. Something more would be needed. Can't get my head focused on it right now. Of course, the ideal would be to develop a true hierarchical classification system for web pages. Yahoo has the beginnings of such a system by its hierarchy, but it does not have the other essential components of a system (such as a notation sub-system) and of course, the basic elements of its hierarchy are severely flawed, since they started it without the benefit of any serious analysis. Only later did they hire persons (from the Artificial Intelligence community by the way, not from the library or indexing professions) with some notions of the needs of subject hierarchies. Do not wince at the idea of starting over when Dewey and LC already exist. In the Records management field we HAVE to start over each time we get to a new corporation or institution because the way they view information is different from one huge company to another. Also, we have to give them the simplest systems to use because nearly everybody will have to apply it, thus eliminating the Dewey and LC hierarchies. The History of Records Management (and to a lesser extent Archives) in North America is riddled with stories of disastrous attempts at trying to apply the LC classification or the Dewey classification and its cousin the U.D.C. in the wrong circumstances. That is, in circumstances where nearly all users are casual users in opposition to circumstances where there is an office or a group of persons working full time at putting the right codes on the documents. Seem familiar to the scenario of web page creators coding their pages themselves? It is! Systems which ape the LC or Dewey classifications in their complexity have also led to disasters uncountable. The Dewey and LC systems (and the UDC, and even the colon system) are fine objects of study to get an idea of what it takes to build a classification system, but you really have to do some readings on the matter to get an idea of what you have to simplify to make classification by the casual user ( a creator of web pages) a reality. One of the best books on the subject ,by the way, was written by an Australian. If anybody knows a better introduction, a better guide to all of this than "The subject approach to information" by A.C. Foskett, do tell. Of course, while Foskett strives to consider Information in General, most of his examples deal with books and other published materials. Web pages have attributes belonging more or less to the field of unpublished material. Having a publisher, a printer, a distributor and who knows what else to impose standards makes something much easier to control. Web pages on the other hand can pop up in any size or form, and should thus be considered as Records. So, they need a new classification system. Again, do not groan, just think of the birth of the Dewey and LC classification systems in the 19th century. They did not spring forth complete and alone in a huge field. They emerged slowly with many other competing systems (a few of which still survive here and there) to answer the needs of a new medium: The cheap book. Before the middle of the 19th century books were very dear. After the introduction of wood based paper and steam printing presses, books began to be produced in horrendous numbers. Libraries were suddenly packed to the gills and new systems, to shelve and find the books were needed. The fact that the Dewey and LC systems survived till now (while the others perished) probably means that they were the most adequate (given also the backing they had from two important institutions) for the classification of printed books by experts. It does not mean that they are the correct choice for the coding of even more horrendous numbers of web pages by casual users. Au revoir! Alain Vaillancourt From ace at Opus1.COM Wed Jun 5 17:21:47 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply Message-ID: <01I5JWOQCHIAE0PZ9M@Opus1.COM> Someone asked me last month what I thought about frames. I said, I don't think I like them, everything's *way too organized*. But I thought about what I had said, just what is it that is driving me crazy about frames? Besides the obvious problems trying to get around them. Page I encountered, a company selling the ISP and WWW services, had an image frame that was zoomed out I'd say, and the informational pages were underneath it but their button to link was *just* out of reach of this totally obscuring Image in a box, trying to "animate." I was very bugged, there is something more to my dislike of frames than just the heat.:)) I kept my eyes open to find out what was bothering me. Might be everything is looking so much the same I can't stay awake. ?(~~ dear, can we rent a tape tonite? Maybe 84 Charing Cross Road?")? Today! Illumination. We didn't get a Sunday newspaper and that has the TV guide in it. So guideless I turned on the cable tv listings to see what might be on in the next hour. I stood speechless as I watched the frame at the top run the action ads for whatever show, and the endlessly scrolling, tedious, slow, list of channels and their current status. Look! The Jones Cable tv guide looks exactly like every page I've seen using frames. So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Phooey and "off with their heads." Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com serendipity RULES! Next, "I don't see what I got." (They often just do not see the postings on the screen--a kind of screen blindness effect. The screens are highly organized and THE MOST prominent thing is often an advertisement that has, of course, nothing to do with the search, so they wonder aloud, "what's this doing here?", and miss the postings.) At 12:33 PM 6/5/96 -0700, Diane Nahl wrote: >I am currently involved in a study of how students use web search >engines. Twenty undergrads without any web or Internet experience are in >a summer social psychology course that uses the web as its focus. The >students have to put up home pages and deposit all of their assignments >there, etc. I will have detailed information from the sstudents on their >particular experience using search engines. > >Some preliminary observations on novices learning Web search engines: > >The first problem novices encounter is "what is a search engine?" > >Next, "What are these things?" (On a page listing the various engines it >isn't clear that each one is a link to a certain search engine.) > >Next, "how do I choose one?" from a list of them (Netscape's list or a >longer list I maintain, or other available lists). > >Next, "what do I type?" (The conceptual analysis problem, natural >language problem, etc.) > >Next, "I don't see what I got." (They often just do not see the postings >on the screen--a kind of screen blindness effect. The screens are highly >organized and THE MOST prominent thing is often an advertisement that >has, of course, nothing to do with the search, so they wonder aloud, >"what's this doing here?", and miss the postings.) > >Next, "What are these things?" (The default description is not clear >enough as to what it is going to be about, so is it relevant?) > >Next, "Why is this stuff here?" "What does this have to do with the >topic?" (Their search terms were too broad, narrow, numerous; they did >not select any options to control the precision; they did not see the >options at all--screen blindness; they did not look for options; they did >not think about how to describe their topic for the search; they >extracted words directly from the topic statement they chose; they did >not explore any links in the retrieved set to see what it it about and >how it might relate, or not, to their topic,etc.) > >If there is interest, I will summarize the findings for this list after >the analysis is complete later this summer. > >_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ >_/ Dr. Diane Nahl, Assistant Professor _/ From now _/ >_/ School of Library and Information Studies _/ on we _/ >_/ University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822 _/ are all _/ >_/ http://www2.hawaii.edu/slis/nahl/nahl.html _/ lifelong _/ >_/ voicemail: 808-956-5809 FAX: 808-956-5835 _/ novices. _/ >_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > From p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk Wed Jun 5 05:14:47 1996 From: p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk (Paul Hollands) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Agents (Was Re: Students use of search engines.) Message-ID: <199606050914.KAA06212@liba.lut.ac.uk> At 12:46 04/06/96 -0700, Gail Wanner wrote: >Instead of trying to convince students (and others) that they need to >learn the complexities of web searching, perhaps we should be trying to >improve the searching so that people are successful in their searches >without special training? Most people find information in the phone book >without needing to be trained & they expect the web (and library catalogs) >to be basically the same. Can you find all the phone numbers of all the people who live on my street quickly from a telephone directory? Sorry but any form of information retrieval requires you learn new skills if you want to get beyond even the most perfunctory search. The Holy Grail of electronic information retrieval is precision natural language searching. Unfortunately, having tested Natural Language engines in my previous job which could handle questions like "Give me reports about airbag crash tests that failed.." we still found that bog standard boolean searching gave much greater precision. If you want to see the future, check out an Article entitled 'Agents of change' in the May 96 issue of Internet World. I think that eventually no one will ever touch a search engine. All searching will be done on your behalf by agents. Also check out the May edition of Wired called "Seek and ye shall find (maybe)" for an insight into how existing engines are developed. ('Best phrase in the article' award goes to 'The problem of information retrieval can be nailed down to synonymy and homonymy.' I think there's a drinking game in there somewhere. :-) ) **************************************** Paul Hollands Internet Information Officer Loughborough University UK 01509 222373 http://www.lboro.ac.uk/info/training/e_sources_main.html From p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk Wed Jun 5 05:18:58 1996 From: p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk (Paul Hollands) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: SOLUTION: Browser reading nonexistent code Message-ID: <199606050918.KAA06442@liba.lut.ac.uk> If your running Windows, then an easier way is to set up a recorder macro so that you can clear down your caches with one key stoke. (I was clearing my caches like this rather than pressing reload.) I got so frustrated I went back to Netscape 1.2 however. Other benefits include my 8 Mb machine not grinding to a halt every time I want to use my browser. Are you Netscape 3 guys running 64 Mb twin P120s or what? At 13:38 04/06/96 -0700, Leon James wrote: >Thanks to Bill Crosbie for clearing up a mystery that has been very >frustrating: > >"Because of the way Netscape Navigator 2.0 and 2.01 handle Daylight Saving >Time, certain pages that change content more frequently than once an hour >may not load properly. The problem occurs when the user tries to reload the >page. If the page has changed in the last hour, Navigator, during Daylight >Saving Time, will not load the new page." > >My solution in that case is to change the name of the file -- >temporarily, so as to see the changes. Then I change the name back and >hope to be able to see it the next day. > >leon james > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ** Dr. Leon James, Prof. of Psychology, Univ. of Hawaii > ** http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/club/leonj/leonpsy/leon.html > ** "Thoughts are from affections." E. Swedenborg AE1146 > ******************************************************* > > > **************************************** Paul Hollands Internet Information Officer Loughborough University UK 01509 222373 http://www.lboro.ac.uk/info/training/e_sources_main.html From walter.lewis at sheridanc.on.ca Wed Jun 5 19:03:54 1996 From: walter.lewis at sheridanc.on.ca (Walter Lewis) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Recommend a book In-Reply-To: <199606051748.NAA05335@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Thomas Dowling wrote: > OBbook recommendation: I live by the Llama Book. One of my coworkers > swears by Teach Yourself PERL in 21 Days. ...and you only need to read about 6 days worth of Teach Yourself if you have a decent CGI template to work from :) As to the religious wars, keep in mind that a major part of the equation in the server software. PERL is the most portable that I am aware of; Visual Basic is ttbomk confined to NT/Windows servers. Walter Lewis Halton Hills Public Library From mtheobal at velcome.iupui.edu Wed Jun 5 20:19:27 1996 From: mtheobal at velcome.iupui.edu (Matt Theobald) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: a few steps together In-Reply-To: <199606051954.PAA23782@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Message-ID: Does this confirm or deny Mr. Fouty's assertion? The current state of organization on the Inernet is a good example of how history does't always repeat itself. It is undenyably a problem. Vastly unlike UNIVAC, the problems are radically different because the element of control is lost. There was never the potential that anyone could access UNIVAC. It is not a matter of some programmers knowig about indexing styles and effective organization. It is neccesry that all internet programmers have access to people or resources that prevent them from creating black holes the lose information or generating a quandry of obscure and irrelvant hits. In my humble opinion (IMHO), This is the "golden mean". Librarians must have an understanding of systems in order to see applications. Programmers must realize that there are models and standards for organization that can be transferred. Alphabetization is easy enough, but somewhere in the education of -computer science- that has been lost to the hope for artificial search agents that do not provide a better way to filter as well as be comprehensive. As many librarins should be ready and willing to sit at the table with programmers as vice-cersa. I think the results would be astounding. Thanks for reading, Matt Theobald IU SLIS Graduate Student . . . . . . . . . . . . . Matthew Theobald --------------- * Connecting . . Internet Information Specialist Your Mind . . Indianapolis, Indiana with the Body . . Ring 317.635.4432 of Knowledge . . . . . . . . . . . . Sincerely, Matt On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Alain Vaillancourt wrote: > > > From: Gary Fouty > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: a few steps together > > > > To pick up on remarks of Nick Arnett and Gail Wanner, I think the goal is > > for librarians and techies to work together to make information products > > easy to use, with the details transparent to the user. I am a bit disturbed > > by the attitude of some that simple keyword searching of full text will > > suffice. I even heard one of the Gopher developers remark about that > > distant time when full-text searching was first developed (back in 1992!!!). > > > In any discipline, quite a few individuals are unaware of its past. > > Programmers have been making computer generated indexes for about 40 > years. > > One of the biggest and most important undertakings in the History of > Computing was in the early 60s when Univac-Sperry and IBM slugged it > out in court for the title of legal inventor of electronic computing, > and central to this slugfest was a computer generated index of all > the documents used during the court proceedings. > > Au revoir! > > Alain Vaillancourt > From jschall at glenpub.lib.az.us Wed Jun 5 20:46:27 1996 From: jschall at glenpub.lib.az.us (Joe Schallan) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Browser independence Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960606004627.2c3fa27a@glenpub.lib.az.us> We've all seen the ubiqitous "Enhanced for Netscape x" and "Best viewed with Netscape x" messages. Occasionally I've encountered a contrarian webmaster who proudly proclaims his/her site as being "browser-independent." (Someone who didn't get in early on the Netscape IPO??) Just curious as to whether anyone out there has put together a "cheat sheet" on which codes and features to restrict yourself to, if your goal is a "browser-independent" site. (And especially if your goal is to not maintain multiple versions of your site.) Is browser independence just compliance with a low-numbered HTML version, or is there more to it than that? And, philosophically, is browser independence worth striving for? I know my site doesn't look so great with Chameleon Websurfer, but then how many people are using this browser? Any comments on the appropriate place at which to aim on the Great Chain of Features? Joe ============================================== Joe Schallan, MLS jschall@glenpub.lib.az.us Reference Librarian Voice: Glendale Public Library (602)930-3555 5959 West Brown Street Fax: Glendale, AZ 85302-1248 (602)842-4209 ============================================== From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Wed Jun 5 20:57:03 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Browser independence Message-ID: <3F372C10DCC@gee.natlib.govt.nz> >Just curious as to whether anyone out there has put together >a "cheat sheet" on which codes and features to restrict >yourself to Check out the HTML Barebones Guide - http://werbach.com/barebones/ This is great as indicates which HTML tags etc. work with what browsers Also, their is a browser comparison chart in Linda Wienman's book called "designing web graphics" I guess this isn't the only one. Hope this helps & Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From U536A at WVNVM.WVNET.EDU Wed Jun 5 21:43:19 1996 From: U536A at WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (John J. Burke) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Announcement: Ruth Ann Musick Library homepage Message-ID: I would like to announce and invite comments on the Ruth Ann Musick Library homepage. It is located at: http://129.71.46.56. We have recently filled in the holes on our page and feel it is ready to build on as we see fit. We would certainly like to know what you all think about it. This list has certainly been a lot of help. Thanks a lot. John John J. Burke, MSLS | Librarian | Internet Trainer | Instructor | Author Owner, FSCNET-L | Fairmont State College, Fairmont, WV 26554-2489 E-mail:u536a@wvnvm.wvnet.edu | Phone:(304) 367-4121 | Fax:(304) 367-4589 Homepage:http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~u536a | Library page:http://129.71.46.56 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a textbook for your Internet training? See my homepage for info. on _Learning the Internet: A Workbook for Beginners_. Neal-Schuman, 1996. From U536A at WVNVM.WVNET.EDU Wed Jun 5 21:50:13 1996 From: U536A at WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (John J. Burke) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Materials from Presentation on Designing Homepages Message-ID: A colleague and I recently gave a presentation on "The Challenges of Being a Homepage Maker." We would like to make available the text of the PowerPoint slides that we used (http://129.71.46.56/presents/wvnetpre.html) and the handout which we made available to attendees (http://129.71.46.56/presents/wvnethan.html). Please let us know if you have any comments, suggestions, etc. Our homepage, which we used as a model, is located at http://129.71.46.56. Thanks a lot! John John J. Burke, MSLS | Librarian | Internet Trainer | Instructor | Author Owner, FSCNET-L | Fairmont State College, Fairmont, WV 26554-2489 E-mail:u536a@wvnvm.wvnet.edu | Phone:(304) 367-4121 | Fax:(304) 367-4589 Homepage:http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~u536a | Library page:http://129.71.46.56 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Need a textbook for your Internet training? See my homepage for info. on _Learning the Internet: A Workbook for Beginners_. Neal-Schuman, 1996. From narnett at Verity.COM Thu Jun 6 01:11:48 1996 From: narnett at Verity.COM (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: a few steps together Message-ID: >In this day and age, I think librarians or technical people don't >have a premium on how information is managed, made accessible etc. In >this age I really wonder what the core competency of librarians is - >you hear people say that librarians can help people navigate through a mass >of information etc. but that maybe because librarians created these >systems in the first place. > >Anyway Paul Saffo sums it up in a 'Wired' article - It's the context... >http://www.hotwired.com/wired/2.03/departments/idees.fortes/context.html Paul and I tend to see very much eye-to-eye on this stuff. It's been a couple of years since I came to the conclusion that multiple points of view will be needed to take advantage of the opportunities created by personal computers and the Internet. I usually think of three -- technologists, librarians and scholars, and publishers. I'm still convinced that all three need to participate in the design of new information systems. The main point I wanted to make is that on an emotional level, it might seem a bit unfair that the technologists, having the least advanced technology (despite the fact that it's called "high" technology!), tend to compromise the least. I think I've said this on the list previously, but it's worth repeating -- if you're intrigued by this, I'd recommend Elizabeth Eisenstein's books on the printing press as an agent of change. She argues that it was the partnerships among similar groups that brought about creative change directly in the production of books; other change was brought about by the easy availability of diverse points of view. There's an interesting related idea that cultural collision is a trigger for creativity (it's also a trigger for genocide and such; I don't mean to imply a positive or even neutral role). Of course, in early modern Europe, the diversity offered by printers helped people see beyond the church's then-corrupted viewpoint (Luther's theses lit a flame war after he posted them to the Wittenberg ftp door); today the diversity is in opposition to advertising-based media (which also raise money by offering distraction, salvation and damnation). I'm finally free to start writing a book on this area. Nick From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Thu Jun 6 02:33:48 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:54 2005 Subject: Web challenges Message-ID: <3F90FFA5185@gee.natlib.govt.nz> >"The Challenges of Being a Homepage Maker ... Hm! I agree that there are lots of challenges in getting a Web Site up and running and I think the biggest ones come once you have established your Site and after you've come down to earth ... it is a bit like having a baby! Does anyone know of resources which discuss the challenges you face once you have set up your Site? How have you all managed the organizational issues involved? I am particularly interested to the strategies you may have used. Any ideas and resources will be much appreciated. I am happy to summarize for the list 'cos there is lot about on setting up Sites but less on managing them and the issues involved and I guess a lot more people are interested in this. TIA Vivienne PS I'm not as gruff as I may seem from the tone of my postings! Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From p.t.stone at niss.ac.uk Sat Jun 8 13:06:24 1996 From: p.t.stone at niss.ac.uk (Peter Stone) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:58 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960608170624.0085c5a4@hands.niss.ac.uk> Re: >I have also had this happen, specially when editing, saving, then uploading the >file to another site. To save time reloading a file, Netscape will use the >memory and disk cache files. Since the old version of the html is saved in the >cache, Netscape will simply reload that file. I have found that clearing these >cache files (done from the options menu), then reloading will force Netscape to >contact the offsite computer for the most current file. You don't have to clear the entire cache to force the reload of a page: as the Netscape manual says: Reload . If you press the Reload button while holding down the Shift key (Option key on Macintosh), Netscape retrieves a fresh version from the network server regardless of whether the page has been updated (the cache is not used). Peter -- Peter Stone, 8 Priory Crescent, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 1HP, UK Tel/Fax +44 (0) 1273 475917 Email: p.t.stone@niss.ac.uk From jul at oclc.org Sat Jun 8 09:47:21 1996 From: jul at oclc.org (Erik Jul) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:58 2005 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <199606081347.JAA04112@ws20-02.dev.oclc.org> Cross-posted to AUTOCAT, PACS-L, EMEDIA, and WEB4LIB. Please re-post or redistribute as appropriate. --Erik ************************************************************************ The "Proceedings of the OCLC Internet Cataloging Colloquium" is now available at http://www.oclc.org/oclc/man/colloq/toc.htm. --Erik Erik Jul Project Manager jul@oclc.org From kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu Sat Jun 8 14:42:16 1996 From: kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu (Karen Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:58 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960608170624.0085c5a4@hands.niss.ac.uk> Message-ID: I was hoping this would solve the problem in 2.01 for Windows, but it doen't seem to. As far as I can tell, with the Windows 2.01 version we are stuck with clearing the cache manually to reload. ************************************************************************* Karen Campbell Bush Memorial Library kcampbel@seq.hamline.edu Hamline University (612)641-2482 St. Paul, Minnesota We are "web weavers and dancers at the dawn of the Meso-Electronic Period" ---Paul Evan Peters ************************************************************************* On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Peter Stone wrote: > Re: > >I have also had this happen, specially when editing, saving, then uploading > the > >file to another site. To save time reloading a file, Netscape will use the > >memory and disk cache files. Since the old version of the html is saved in > the > >cache, Netscape will simply reload that file. I have found that clearing > these > >cache files (done from the options menu), then reloading will force > Netscape to > >contact the offsite computer for the most current file. > > You don't have to clear the entire cache to force the reload of a page: as > the Netscape manual says: > > Reload > . If you press the Reload button while holding down the Shift key > (Option key on Macintosh), Netscape retrieves a fresh version from the > network server regardless of whether the page has been updated (the cache is > not used). > > Peter > > -- > Peter Stone, 8 Priory Crescent, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 1HP, UK > Tel/Fax +44 (0) 1273 475917 Email: p.t.stone@niss.ac.uk > From leon at hawaii.edu Sat Jun 8 17:41:44 1996 From: leon at hawaii.edu (Leon James) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:58 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960608170624.0085c5a4@hands.niss.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you Peter Stone for THE answer to the cache problem. So many people have responded with the suggestion of cleaning the cache file. Now it appears that there is a much simpler solution. It's worth repeating: "You don't have to clear the entire cache to force the reload of a page: as the Netscape manual says: Reload . If you press the Reload button while holding down the Shift key (Option key on Macintosh), Netscape retrieves a fresh version from the network server regardless of whether the page has been updated (the cache is not used)." ++++++++++++++++++ Isn't amazing how complicated simple things are?? As my colleague Diane Nahl says: All of us are lifelong novices!! leon james +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** Dr. Leon James, Prof. of Psychology, Univ. of Hawaii ** http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/club/leonj/leonpsy/leon.html ** "Thoughts are from affections." E. Swedenborg AE1146 ******************************************************* From kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu Sat Jun 8 20:32:40 1996 From: kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu (Karen Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:58 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now I'm really confused. I tested the shift-Reload feature several times earlier today without success. However, this evening it works like a charm! Has anyone else experienced this? Have I entered the "Cache-light" Zone? ************************************************************************* Karen Campbell Bush Memorial Library kcampbel@seq.hamline.edu Hamline University (612)641-2482 St. Paul, Minnesota We are "web weavers and dancers at the dawn of the Meso-Electronic Period" ---Paul Evan Peters ************************************************************************* On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Karen Campbell wrote: > I was hoping this would solve the problem in 2.01 for Windows, but it > doen't seem to. As far as I can tell, with the Windows 2.01 version we > are stuck with clearing the cache manually to reload. > > > ************************************************************************* > Karen Campbell Bush Memorial Library > kcampbel@seq.hamline.edu Hamline University > (612)641-2482 St. Paul, Minnesota > We are "web weavers and dancers at the dawn of the Meso-Electronic Period" > ---Paul Evan Peters > ************************************************************************* From steinkel at carlisle-emh2.army.mil Mon Jun 10 12:14:14 1996 From: steinkel at carlisle-emh2.army.mil (steinkel) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Looking for SGML info Message-ID: <1bc4ae30@carlisle-emh2.army.mil> One of our cataloguers is looking for information on SGML in general as well as how it can/will relate to MARC and the Web. Can anybody suggest books or courses (in the United States) that would be of assistance? Thanks in advance, Leland J. Steinke Assistant Director for Systems U.S. Army Military History Institute From kdudley at bgsm.edu Mon Jun 10 13:31:09 1996 From: kdudley at bgsm.edu (Kathryn Dudley) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <9606072222.AA25296@pta6000.pld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 1996 jornsj@pta6000.pld.com wrote: > I have also had this happen, specially when editing, saving, then uploading the > file to another site. To save time reloading a file, Netscape will use the > memory and disk cache files. Since the old version of the html is saved in the > cache, Netscape will simply reload that file. I have found that clearing these > cache files (done from the options menu), then reloading will force Netscape to > contact the offsite computer for the most current file. I've had to change "Options--Network Preferences" "Verify Documents" from "Once per session" to "Every time" to get the most current file. There's probably a time tradeoff however. kAThrYN dUDleY /kdudley@bgsm.edu/ Bowman Gray School of Medicine http://www.bgsm.edu/bgsm/library/ Voted "Top 5% of the Web" by Point Communications From riddle at rice.edu Mon Jun 10 14:41:03 1996 From: riddle at rice.edu (Prentiss Riddle) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Update: a web-based events calendar Message-ID: <4phq7v$4jj@larry.rice.edu> Some time back I posted a query here about web-based tool to replace our gopher-based university events calendar. I thought I should post an update. What seemed like scarcity a few months back now seems like an overabundance of tools, although features vary quite a bit. My notes on the calendars I've examined are at: http://is.rice.edu/~riddle/calsearch.html A couple of recent additions to the list are worth mentioning here: Man~ana http://scendtek.com/zv/manana.html Commercial software, but free for educational use. Currently in beta test. Written in perl 5 for Unix and based on the ZyView WWW database system. Man~ana was developed to meet Rice's specs, so it currently seems to the best match for Rice's needs, especially in the area of access control, e-mail notification and "moderation" of events. Concerns remain, though, about its efficiency with a large volume of events (it requires a linear search of a flat-file or DBM database in response to every query). Extensively customizable, especially by hacking the perl filter for each view. Source is available. Contact: Chuck Johnson (cdjohns@scendtek.com) Now Up-to-Date Web Publisher http://www.nowsoft.com/products/UptoDate/morse_pub_info.html Commercial software. An approx. $300 add-on to the personal time management software Now Up-to-Date. Publishes events either by running an HTTP server on the user's desktop or by periodically exporting HTML files to an HTTP server elsewhere. Available for Windows and Macintosh. Probably the slickest solution I've seen, but it doesn't seem to include a way for events to be entered through a web interface (i.e., by users who do not have access to Now Up-to-Date). Nor is it clear how it manages access control in order to permit cooperative management of a unified calendar across a large institution. Software (binary) is available, including a free 30-day trial version. So far, only Man~ana seems to meet our requirements at Rice. I'm interested in suggestions of anything I've missed that might match it. I'd also like to hear if any users of Now Up-to-Date Web Publisher have managed to find a way to use it in a large, cross-departmental setting where many users contribute to a unified institutional calendar. Please reply by *mail* and I will update my web page. Thanks. -- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") riddle@rice.edu -- RiceInfo Administrator, Rice University / http://is.rice.edu/~riddle From basila at rpi.edu Mon Jun 10 16:32:23 1996 From: basila at rpi.edu (Abbie Basile) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Lycos, WebCrawler, OpenText at ALA Message-ID: Want to learn more about Web search engines and how they differ from one another? Want to participate in a discussion with staff from Lycos, OpenText and WebCrawler? Well, then mark your calendars for Saturday, 7/6, 9-11am. Location: New York City, Javits Convention Ctr., room 1E 17 At the American Library Association Annual conference, the LITA Internet Resources Interest Group will be hosting a panel discussion on the topic of search engines, including company representatives from the three organizations listed above. If you want to learn more about this LITA group, visit our Web page at: http://www.rpi.edu/~basila/lita/netgroup.html See you there! Abbie Basile, Co-Chair LITA Internet Resources Interest Group ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ basila@rpi.edu Information Services Librarian Folsom Library, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute From WEISSMAN at main.morris.org Mon Jun 10 16:49:37 1996 From: WEISSMAN at main.morris.org (Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <960610164937.2020b634@main.morris.org> I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found AOL browser the great common denominator. Since posting our page two weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet support is becoming increasingly common. AOL Mac has no telnet support; PC only with added software and installation; WorldNet does not supply telnet support at the outset; two other patrons had accounts with smallish ISPs and had been provided only the Netscape1.2 Personal browser, no telnet app. We are dealing with calls and e-mail telling us the link to our catalog is "broken" ..and then trying to walk patrons through what is telnet and why might they want it. Not only can you not assume that everyone is on an ISDN line...you can't even assume they can make basic connection types! From mgonsalv at hawaii.edu Mon Jun 10 18:13:09 1996 From: mgonsalv at hawaii.edu (Mike Gonsalves) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Looking for SGML info References: <1bc4ae30@carlisle-emh2.army.mil> Message-ID: <31BC9DF5.3F97@hawaii.edu> I found some info on SGML at: http://www.oclc.org:5046/oclc/research/panorama/panorama.html -- Mike Gonsalves mgonsalv@hawaii.edu From leita at netcom.com Mon Jun 10 20:59:13 1996 From: leita at netcom.com (Carole Leita) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design - AKA telnet apps info In-Reply-To: <960610164937.2020b634@main.morris.org> Message-ID: We've found the same problems and solved it by explaining it somewhat on our page that points to the telnet to our online catalog - http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/bpl/files/bplcat.html and then pointing them to what I think is the best help page on this issue - Melvyl's - at http://www.dla.ucop.edu/dlaweb/connect.html Regards, Carole ______________________________________________________________ Carole Leita, leita@netcom.com Internet/Reference Librarian, 510-644-6100 ext.313 Berkeley Public Library, 2090 Kittredge St., Berkeley CA 94703 URL: http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/bpl/ ______________________________________________________________ > I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found > AOL browser the great common denominator. Since posting our page two > weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet > support is becoming increasingly common. AOL Mac has no telnet support; > PC only with added software and installation; WorldNet does not supply > telnet support at the outset; two other patrons had accounts with > smallish ISPs and had been provided only the Netscape1.2 Personal > browser, no telnet app. We are dealing with calls and e-mail telling > us the link to our catalog is "broken" ..and then trying to walk patrons > through what is telnet and why might they want it. Not only can you > not assume that everyone is on an ISDN line...you can't even assume > they can make basic connection types! > From jakubb at si.umich.edu Mon Jun 10 22:48:29 1996 From: jakubb at si.umich.edu (Beth Jakub) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: internet continuing education workshops Message-ID: Please excuse cross-postings on other listservs ***************** Internet Institute Series Returns at U-M The School of Information at the University of Michigan is offering three continuing education workshops in its Internet Institute Series this summer. The workshops are open to all students and information professionals who are interested in enhancing their skills. All institutes will be taught by faculty and graduate-level students of the University of Michigan and guest speakers. The workshops are: - "Art in the Streets: Capturing Live Events on the Web." The workshop, from July 24-26, will use the Ann Arbor summer art fairs as its backdrop to teach participants how to capture images and sounds from the fairs and place them on the World Wide Web. Registration is $250. - "Building Partnerships: Collaborative Technologies for Libraries." This workshop, cosponsored by the University Library, will run August 1-2. This institute combines theory and practice to provide the rationale, foundation, and vision for collaborative programs among libraries. It includes a panel discussion at and a tour of the new U-M Media Union. The institute emphasizes emerging electronic networked technologies that enable and facilitate this collaboration. Registration is $150. - "Virtual Reference Desk and Collection Development at the Internet Public Library." The workshop, from August 14-16, is a specialized, three-day program for librarians and information professionals of all kinds. Those who are interested in using Internet-based information resources to better serve their users or integrating these resources more easily into their current environment will benefit from this institute. Participants will receive instruction and guidance from staff members of the Internet Public Library, will have substantial time for hands-on exploration and development, and the opportunity to create collaborative relationships with others grappling with similar issues. Registration is $250. To request registration materials, contact Beth Jakub by e-mail jakubb@umich.edu or by phone at (313) 764-2648. A full description of the Internet Institute Series and a downloadable copy of the brochure and registration form are available on the World Wide Web at http://www.si.umich.edu/hp/ai/institute.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beth Jakub School of Information jakubb@sils.umich.edu University of Michigan From andrzej at dingo.com Mon Jun 10 23:01:25 1996 From: andrzej at dingo.com (Andrzej Kowalski) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Setting up an "intranet" Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960611030125.00678f3c@dingo1.dingo.com> At 11:43 06/07/96 -0700, Mary A. Duffy wrote: >Hello, > >Has anyone set up an intranet on a Netware 3.12 network and a www >server? What were the pittfalls and problems? Did you have to buy any >additional hardware or software? How did you limit access to the >intranet side of your www server? What are the limitations if any? > It depends on what you want to do on the Intra side of the Net. Simply having a password controlled area for static Web pages is extremely straight forward with the vast majority of httpd servers. You password protect directories with Web documents as required using the htpasswd program that comes with your httpd server - at least with Unix servers. The passwords do travel across the network unencrypted, but then so do the vast majority of terminal-based logins. You can buy secure servers, starting at about $500.00, I believe, for the Apache Secure Sockets Layer. Firewalls may be also be used - at additional cost - to further enhance security. In the Web database design consulting area, we are seeing a number of our third party developers implement sophisticated Intranet WWW database applications. In other words, they use Web forms to allow appropriately privileged users to query, insert, update, delete etc. from enterprise databases in the same office or across the country. >Any information on how you set it up would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Mary Duffy >Computer Services Library >Vermont Law School > Andrzej Kowalski ################ Andrzej Kowalski Dingo Software Systems Inc. andrzej@dingo.com http://www.dingo.com 303-601 West Broadway Vancouver, BC, Canada, V5Z 4C2 Tel: (604) 877-1960 Fax: (604) 877-1961 Fast and flexible data retrieval from data collections of all sizes in-house and on the WWW with the KE Texpress object oriented database. ############### From mfriley at erols.com Tue Jun 11 08:35:56 1996 From: mfriley at erols.com (Margaret F. Riley) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <199606111235.IAA12314@smtp2.erols.com> >I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found >AOL browser the great common denominator. What I have been reading in the various web design magazines says that most of the designers use the AOL browser as the "minimal" design level now. However, I did hear that AOL is preparing their new browser for downloading and it should be closer to the levels we expect. Mac users will not see it until probably fall, and of course everyone will have to download it... Since posting our page two >weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet >support is becoming increasingly common. Lack of telnet and lack of Usenet newsgroups. It seems most people think of the web as *the Internet* and the newer ISP's are not providing all of the bells and whistles needed to get to it all. Realize too that most public libraries cannot provide telnet access and support for users of their public systems, so I advise web developers to link to what they can support on their own systems. Margaret Margaret F. Riley Internet Consultant The Riley Guide 3726 Nimitz Road http://www.jobtrak.com/jobguide/ Kensington, MD 20895-1700 mfriley@erols.com (301) 946-1917 mfriley@ultranet.com ######################################## "The Guide to Internet Job Searching" by Margaret Riley, Frances Roehm, and Steve Oserman. VGM Career Horizons, April 1996. 1-800-323-4900 From SSH at ITS.NLC-BNC.CA Tue Jun 11 12:19:00 1996 From: SSH at ITS.NLC-BNC.CA (Haigh Susan) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <31BD9CB9@its.nlc-bnc.ca> Gary, Am I correct in assuming this adds to our argument for doing a Web based Amicus search? Thanks, S. ---------- From: web4lib To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: bare bones design Date: Monday, June 10, 1996 1:53PM I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found AOL browser the great common denominator. Since posting our page two weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet support is becoming increasingly common. AOL Mac has no telnet support; PC only with added software and installation; WorldNet does not supply telnet support at the outset; two other patrons had accounts with smallish ISPs and had been provided only the Netscape1.2 Personal browser, no telnet app. We are dealing with calls and e-mail telling us the link to our catalog is "broken" ..and then trying to walk patrons through what is telnet and why might they want it. Not only can you not assume that everyone is on an ISDN line...you can't even assume they can make basic connection types! From TOM at wilbur.db.erau.edu Tue Jun 11 10:49:12 1996 From: TOM at wilbur.db.erau.edu (Tom Tipsword) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <5791C025AE@wilbur.db.erau.edu> > Margaret F. Riley said: > Lack of telnet and lack of Usenet newsgroups. It seems most people think > of the web as *the Internet* and the newer ISP's are not providing all of the > bells and whistles needed to get to it all. Realize too that most public > libraries cannot provide telnet access and support for users of > their public systems, so I advise web developers to link to what > they can support on their own systems. Telnet isn't a bell or whistle -- it's one of the building blocks of the Internet. IMHO, the AOLs of the world are doing us all a major disservice by misrepresenting their email, chat room, and (more recently) web access as being "the Internet". I don't even consider any vendor who doesn't have something as basic as telnet an ISP, regardless of how they advertise themselves. The issue of designing for the lowest common denominator brings up something that is both a fault and a virtue in us library folk -- trying to make everything easy and usable for everyone. After wrestling with this for years I have come to the conclusion that no matter how much time and energy you put into making things "easy", somebody's going to push the wrong button or misconfigure things on their end and then blame it on "the system". (As in the saying "make something foolproof and they'll make a better fool".) I would like to put forth the radical concept that users have some responsibility to actually learn what is necessary to use new systems. I'm not proposing abandoning user friendly design, or ignoring the lowest common denominator, merely noting that progress depends on stretching limits and that everyone is not going to be able to take full advantage of every advance immediately, nor should we feel guilty because this is the case. We do both development and production in our shop and our philosophy has always been to maintain the practical (deliver reliable services that work) while expanding the possible (finding new ways to do things and new things to do). We keep the entire spectrum of users in mind but design for both the high and the low end. A lot of library systems, even the most advanced ones, strike me as being prime examples of new oldthink in that they are faster or better ways of doing the same old things we've always done. Oh well, one of these days I'll get around to issuing that manifesto on the future of library systems.... :> TNT Tom Tipsword Systems Manager, Hunt Memorial Library vox: 904-226-6601 Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University fax: 904-226-6368 Daytona Beach, FL 32114 http://amelia.db.erau.edu/~tom/ tom@wilbur.db.erau.edu "We need more fruitcakes in this world and less bakers." -- Jimmy Buffet. From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 11 12:32:40 1996 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Web4Lib Subscriber Statistics Message-ID: Web4Lib now has over 2,600 subscribers in 46 countries. I am appending summary statistics below, first by country name, then by number of subscribers. Thank you all for making Web4Lib an effective, interesting, and international discussion. Roy Tennant AUSTRALIA 91 AUSTRIA 4 BELGIUM 12 CANADA 186 CHILE 2 CROATIA 1 CZECH REPUBLIC 4 DENMARK 21 EGYPT 1 FINLAND 22 FRANCE 12 GERMANY 44 GREECE 4 HONG KONG 8 HUNGARY 4 INDIA 6 INDONESIA 1 IRAN 1 IRELAND 5 ISRAEL 6 ITALY 12 JAPAN 9 LATVIA 1 MEXICO 2 NETHERLANDS 22 NEW ZEALAND 18 NORWAY 24 PAKISTAN 1 POLAND 3 PORTUGAL 1 RUSSIA 2 SINGAPORE 6 SLOVAKIA 1 SLOVENIA 1 SOUTH KOREA 4 SPAIN 18 SWEDEN 24 SWITZERLAND 14 TAIWAN 8 THAILAND 1 TURKEY 5 UKRAINE 2 UNITED KINGDOM 102 U.S. - com domain 305 U.S. - edu domain 1104 U.S. - gov domain 73 U.S. - mil domain 13 U.S. - net domain 114 U.S. - org domain 127 U.S. - us domain 172 ZAIRE 4 ========================= U.S. - edu domain 1104 U.S. - com domain 305 CANADA 186 U.S. - us domain 172 U.S. - org domain 127 U.S. - net domain 114 UNITED KINGDOM 102 AUSTRALIA 91 U.S. - gov domain 73 GERMANY 44 NORWAY 24 SWEDEN 24 FINLAND 22 NETHERLANDS 22 DENMARK 21 NEW ZEALAND 18 SPAIN 18 SWITZERLAND 14 U.S. - mil domain 13 BELGIUM 12 FRANCE 12 ITALY 12 JAPAN 9 HONG KONG 8 TAIWAN 8 INDIA 6 ISRAEL 6 SINGAPORE 6 IRELAND 5 TURKEY 5 AUSTRIA 4 CZECH REPUBLIC 4 GREECE 4 HUNGARY 4 ZAIRE 4 SOUTH KOREA 4 POLAND 3 CHILE 2 MEXICO 2 RUSSIA 2 UKRAINE 2 CROATIA 1 EGYPT 1 INDONESIA 1 IRAN 1 LATVIA 1 PAKISTAN 1 PORTUGAL 1 SLOVAKIA 1 SLOVENIA 1 THAILAND 1 From cbearden at sparc.hpl.lib.tx.us Tue Jun 11 11:41:26 1996 From: cbearden at sparc.hpl.lib.tx.us (Chuck Bearden) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Windows for the Public: Enforced Exits Message-ID: One way to do this is to use a 3rd party menuing system. Our library automation vendor, CARL Corporation, has such a system that has an interface that covers the entire desktop. One can't get behind it without a password. One can configure buttons on it to launch desired software. It comes with a driver that disables system keys (ALT+TAB, CTRL+ALT+DEL, CTRL+ESC, CTRL+ALT+ESC), so that users cannot use these keys to switch among apps. If a user minimizes an application, the screen goes blank (showing only the color of the desktop). If they click on the screen, it brings back the minimized app. I believe that this collection of characteristics should permit the running of only one application at a time, forcing users to quit (and release license) to go to another. The older version does not offer the same protection if you launch a 3rd party app from within another 3rd party app (e.g. telnetting from Mosaic). A newer version might handle this. You might want to see if they will let you evaluate the product. It is also the launchpad for their proprietary catalog GUI. As for securing DOS apps under Windows, that strikes me offhand as more problematic. You might need something more heavy-duty than the menuing system I described. Chuck --- On Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:56:15 -0700 Bob Jones wrote: > >Continuing Bruce R. Heimburger's "windows and the public" thread/question: > >Presently we are launching DOS and Windows apps from a network DOS menu >system, but we want to move to the Windows 95 environment. In Windows95 >is there a way to (en)force users to exit one application (and release the >license in use) before launching another licensed application? > >Thanks. > > >Bob Jones mailto://bjones@unf.edu >Head, Public Services Division and Systems Coordinator >University of North Florida Library http://www.unf.edu/library/ >P.O. Box 17605 (904) 646-2552 (SC 861-2552) >Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 FAX: (904) 646-2719 > > -----------------End of Original Message----------------- Chuck Bearden Houston Public Library cbearden@hpl.lib.tx.us From broun at apple.com Tue Jun 11 14:26:32 1996 From: broun at apple.com (Kevin Broun) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Apple Library Users Group @ ALA Message-ID: <199606111822.LAA22981@federal-excess.apple.com> 12th Annual Apple Library Users Group Meeting Please join us at the 12th Annual Apple Library Users Group meeting to be held on July 9 in New York City during ALA from 8:30am - noon. We will be featuring two of Apple's latest Internet technologies and tools and demonstrating some of our recent research. Short descriptions of these presentations follow: On the Internet . . . Cyberdog! by Glenn Fisher, Cyberdog Product Manager, Apple Computer, Inc. Cyberdog is Apple's new component suite for the Internet. The components can also be used individually in OpenDoc applications to create documents that have not only text, graphics, and sound, but also real-time Internet information. These documents have use in kiosks and other information-rich environments. They provide customers with access to local information integrated with the most recent information on the Internet, while reducing connection time and bandwidth. This presentation will give an overview of Cyberdog and some examples of documents with Internet information included. Internet Tools for Kids by Kurt Schmucker, Senior Researcher, Apple's Advanced Technology Group One way to get kids more productively involved in the Internet is to enable them to publish interesting, non-trivial pieces of content. The trick is to do so without requiring them to take a week-long Java or HTML course. This talk will present Apple's solution to this: Cocoa, a simulation building tool with Internet publishing output. In this talk Kurt will demonstrate Cocoa, build some simulations with it, and show how easy it is to publish those simulations on an Internet site. In addition to these presentations, there will be time set aside for discussion groups as well as a delicious breakfast. The meeting will be held in the NY Sheraton. The cost of this meeting is $5. Please send registrations form and a check made payable to "ALUG" for $5 to Pam Lau, Apple Library Users Group, 4 Infinite Loop, MS 304-2A, Cupertino, CA 95014 (pamlau@apple.com): Name : _____________________________________________________ Institution/Organization: __________________________________ Address: ___________________________________________________ City, State, Zip: __________________________________________ Phone : __________________________ Fax: ___________________ Email: _____________________________________________________ What topics are you interested in discussing during the roundtable discussions? ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Please also stop by our booth during ALA (Booth 1500) for demos of these technologies as well as a look at what librarians are doing with Apple technology and the web. See you there! Monica Ertel Apple Library Users Group From AFFLECK at commnet.edu Tue Jun 11 15:17:55 1996 From: AFFLECK at commnet.edu (AFFLECK@commnet.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <960611151755.604679ec@commnet.edu> Announcement of Anticipated Position Opening Systems Librarian (12-month, temporary, non-tenure track position, subject to renewal after one year.) Responsibilities: Capital Community-Technical College and Manchester Community-Technical College have an opening for a shared Systems Librarian position to plan, design, install, manage, and evaluate networked library information delivery systems and services. Also works with Computer Services Departments on each campus to develop linkages between the libraries'integrated systems, the campus networks, the statewide library network, and the systems of other community-technical colleges. The Systems Librarian is responsible for the development of custom applications for library users, including creation and maintenance of the World Wide Web homepage at each institution's library. Also responsible for staff training, input into the design of library facilities as it relates to technology, selection of hardware and software, and network security. Related responsibilities as assigned. Minimum Qualifications: An ALA accredited Master's Degree in Library Science and one year of experience as a systems librarian at the college level. Applicants should have experience with integrated library systems, local area networks, CD-ROM networks, pc and mainframe computing environments, HTML, and linkages to Internet resources. Also required, demonstrated competence in programming,installing and managing networked systems, and in developing custom applications for library users, knowledge of developing technological trends in information delivery, experience in staff training and strategic planning, excellent interpersonal and communcation skills, and abiliity to work as a team member. Also desirable, familiarity with OCLC and CARL library systems, and Windows NT LAN's. A demonstrated understanding of the community-technical college and its diverse student population is essential. Applicants who do not meet the minimun qualifications as stated, are encouraged to put in writing precisely how their experience has prepared them for the responsibilities of this position and and to provide appropriate references. Exceptions to the degree requirements may be made for compelling reasons. MINIMUM SALARY: $40,216 approximate annual. APPLICATION PROCEDURES: Send a letter of intent, resume, transcripts, and the names of three references to: Marie Salamon Director of Personnel Manchester Community-Technical College P.O. Box 1046 Manchester, CT 06045-1046 Deadline: Letter of intent must be postmarked no later than August 15, 1996. EQUAL OPPORTUNITY/AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER,M/F. PROTECTED GROUP MEMBERS STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO APPLY. From cfpl00 at iren.net Tue Jun 11 19:34:48 1996 From: cfpl00 at iren.net (Cedar Falls Public Library Acct #1) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: bare bones design In-Reply-To: <5791C025AE@wilbur.db.erau.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, Tom Tipsword wrote: > > Margaret F. Riley said: > > Telnet isn't a bell or whistle -- it's one of the building > blocks of the Internet. IMHO, the AOLs of the world are doing us all > a major disservice by misrepresenting their email, chat room, and > (more recently) web access as being "the Internet". I don't even > consider any vendor who doesn't have something as basic as telnet an > ISP, regardless of how they advertise themselves. Total agreement from my end. > The issue of designing for the lowest common denominator brings up > something that is both a fault and a virtue in us library folk -- > trying to make everything easy and usable for everyone. After > wrestling with this for years I have come to the conclusion that no > matter how much time and energy you put into making things "easy", > somebody's going to push the wrong button or misconfigure things on > their end and then blame it on "the system". (As in the saying "make > something foolproof and they'll make a better fool".) I would like > to put forth the radical concept that users have some responsibility > to actually learn what is necessary to use new systems. What usually happens is that we Librarians get to educate the system blamers to the fact that _they_ have misconfigured. Another thing to teach people about using the library?... > I'm not proposing abandoning user friendly design, or ignoring the > lowest common denominator, merely noting that progress depends on > stretching limits and that everyone is not going to be able to take > full advantage of every advance immediately, nor should we feel > guilty because this is the case. We do both development > and production in our shop and our philosophy has always been to > maintain the practical (deliver reliable services that work) while > expanding the possible (finding new ways to do things and new things > to do). We keep the entire spectrum of users in mind but design for > both the high and the low end. A lot of library systems, even the > most advanced ones, strike me as being prime examples of new > oldthink in that they are faster or better ways of doing the same > old things we've always done. Oh well, one of these days I'll get > around to issuing that manifesto on the future of library systems.... > :> That old thing about technological change -- getting people to accept it means making it look like the stuff they're used to. Think about the term "horseless carriage" and about the look of the first fiberglass boats with their ridges reminiscent of the wooden hulls of just slightly older boats... :) --Barb ******************************************************************** Barbara Dunn 524 Main St. Technical Services Librarian Cedar Falls, Iowa 50613 Cedar Falls Public Library (319)273-8643 "All the men on my staff can type." -- Bella Abzug ******************************************************************** > TNT > > Tom Tipsword > Systems Manager, Hunt Memorial Library vox: 904-226-6601 > Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University fax: 904-226-6368 > Daytona Beach, FL 32114 > > http://amelia.db.erau.edu/~tom/ tom@wilbur.db.erau.edu > > "We need more fruitcakes in this world and less bakers." -- Jimmy > Buffet. > From peterk at opennet.net.au Tue Jun 11 20:45:06 1996 From: peterk at opennet.net.au (Peter Kumaschow) Date: Wed May 18 14:19:59 2005 Subject: Re> More on Classifying Web Sites References: <9606061308.AA23242@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <31BE1312.60C3@openweb.net.au> This was posted to some newsgroups in the comp.infosystems.www heirarchy. Looks like a method for self-classification of web sites is already developing. That's what I love about the internet, as soon as I think of something it usually is already happening somewhere out there. Now shall chaos or order or a fluctuation between the two ensue? On 30 May 1996 13:09:41 -0400, floydb1@lib109.its.rpi.edu (Barry B Floyd) wrote: > >Alta Vista (search engine) uses the tag, >where they want label='keywords' and label='description'. > >Other search engines may be using keywords/description META tags, if >found in HTML pages. > The real benefit of Identify is that content is classified under a consistent hierarchy (they call it an ontology) so once you get a result set, you can filter it by subject area. This may sound like Yahoo, and it is, sort of. You may have heard, though, that Yahoo has recently put a prioritization scheme in place, because they can't get to everything fast enough. This way everyone classifies their own stuff. The best thing about Identify, though, is the product stuff. They only have CDs and Movies right now, and only one vendor for each so far, but just search for Pink Floyd The Wall, and you'll get an example of how cool this could be. You get CDs and movies in the same search, with links right to where you can buy them. Imagine in the future getting several results for the same CD, so you can comparison shop. Better yet, imagine getting CDs, movies, books, T-shirts, posters, even concert tickets from a dozen different vendors, all in the same place. How cool! -- ----------------------------------- Peter Kumaschow Email: peterk@openweb.net.au Phone: 02 267 1222 ext 110 Mobile: 0419297948 URL: http://www.wr.com.au/webtext From ace at Opus1.COM Fri Jun 14 05:01:41 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <01I5VRGA1CYA8WW4S4@Opus1.COM> I received the netscape personal edition 1.2 from my sysop, they gave it away to many companies at conferences.. I have been told to use various telnet products, and have never successfully installed on personal machines (have on networks etc) a telnet with browser product.I can telnet from my isp, but it's the slip/ppp product with browser I am having the problem with. If anyone can tell me how I would be grateful. The comment below reflects exactly how I feel, struggling to put personal computer users online. Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com serendipity RULES! At 01:54 PM 6/10/96 -0700, Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library wrote: >I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found >AOL browser the great common denominator. Since posting our page two >weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet >support is becoming increasingly common. AOL Mac has no telnet support; >PC only with added software and installation; WorldNet does not supply >telnet support at the outset; two other patrons had accounts with >smallish ISPs and had been provided only the Netscape1.2 Personal >browser, no telnet app. We are dealing with calls and e-mail telling >us the link to our catalog is "broken" ..and then trying to walk patrons >through what is telnet and why might they want it. Not only can you >not assume that everyone is on an ISDN line...you can't even assume >they can make basic connection types! > From ace at Opus1.COM Fri Jun 14 08:32:26 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 (32bit) and QVTnet 4.02 (32bit) Message-ID: <01I5VYTKGTTE8WW5S8@Opus1.COM> This is the biggest mystery to me. Maybe next step is netscape? I'll call them today and see if I can find an answer. elisabeth roche ace@opus1.com serendipity RULES! At 01:22 PM 6/13/96 -0700, Tim Kambitsch wrote: >Anyone have any luck getting Qvtnet 4.02 (term.exe) to work as the >telnet application in Netscape 2.02 on a virgin Windows 95 system? > > I cannot get it to lauch properly from a URL. > > I can get Netscape to select other terminal emulators at their > telenet application. I've tried out about 10 other terminal > emulators in the last week or so. > > I can get Winqvt's 4.02 32bit emulator to work fine by launching > it from outside of Netscape.. In fact I am using it right now > to compose this message. > > Curiously, I get a file not found error message, EVEN if I > use the "Browse" button within Netscape to set the preference. > >Just knowing that others have gotten this to work will help me. > >PS: Is there a way to get QVTnet 4.02 to disappear when a connection >closes? > > > Tim Kambitsch, Dayton and Montgomery County Public Library > > > From rabe at crlmail.uchicago.edu Fri Jun 14 10:09:08 1996 From: rabe at crlmail.uchicago.edu (Susan Rabe) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: "no hits" on retroconversion of catalog Message-ID: <29348.rabe@crlmail.uchicago.edu> In Message Thu, 13 Jun 1996 06:03:47 -0700, hyeager@server.dwight.edu (Henry Yeager) writes: We've just about finished the retroconversion of our catalog to MARC records, but we're left with pages and pages of "no hits" from OCLC. How have others dealt with this? Do we do the cataloguing ourselves? Urgh! Do we try to find an other company? Is there a way to pick the information of the Internet? We can't get anyone at OCLC to even talk to us about it. Ideas, please, and thanks in advance. Henry Yeager Media Services The Dwight School 291 Central Park West New York, NY 10024 e-mail hyeager@server.dwight.edu Could you give a summary about the types of no hits you have? Is there any expertise required for the cataloging? The answers about how others have dealt with this vary greatly if you have 1940's U.S. imprints monographs versus 1970's Malayalam monographs from India. You might get OCLC Retrocon to talk to you if you have this kind of information. Susan M. Rabe Collection Resources Bibliographer Center for Research Libraries 6050 S. Kenwood Ave. Chicago, IL 60637-2804 TEL: 312-955-4545 x323 FAX: 312-955-4339 The area code will be 773 on 10/12/96 email: rabe@crlmail.uchicago.edu From WEISSMAN at main.morris.org Fri Jun 14 09:15:35 1996 From: WEISSMAN at main.morris.org (Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: losing ground Message-ID: <960614091535.204054d2@main.morris.org> For nearly *anything* new you want to try in a library, try this: "We want to try this for six months...what are your concerns?" People react less phobically to a trial than to what they might perceive, correctly or not, as an edict.//Two years ago, in an Internet workshop for librarians, I said "It's tough to get 20 years into what you think has been a good and productive career and suddenly be told you don't know what you are doing because you don't know the Internet." I was not prepared for the audible gasp that shot across the room...*many* of the people sitting there felt precisely that. My experiences as trainer have led me to incorporate Toffler (Future Shock turns out to have been about the Internet!) and Galbraith on learning styles into my course at Rutgers. I want my students to be comfortable knowing that they can learn nearly anything when/as they have to, for that I think is the rising tide of the profession. (Thump! jumps off sopabox.) From ace at Opus1.COM Fri Jun 14 10:29:50 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: bare bones design Message-ID: <01I5W2X474UA8Y50DD@Opus1.COM> If a "newer isp" is not offering telnet or usenet groups (although mine does not directly offer because it is business oriented, so noone cares, but a connection is available) then that "newer isp" is about out of business. everyone wants irc, which my isp has always offered. And you should expect and telnet and lynx and gopher and whatever you want. Including a web site for a personal account included. I would not sign up for a service that did not offer this, which speaks directly to Margaret's point. People don't necessarily know when they sign up for AOL and then transfer to another ISP, a direct Internet connection, they just don't know what they should expect, being numbed by the endless loading time of AOL and the promise of something "really great" out there... Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com serendipity RULES! At 05:41 AM 6/11/96 -0700, Margaret F. Riley wrote: > >>I proof my stuff on Lynx, Netscape, Mosaic and Explorer ..but have found >>AOL browser the great common denominator. > >What I have been reading in the various web design magazines says that most >of the designers use the AOL browser as the "minimal" design level now. >However, I did hear that AOL is preparing their new browser for downloading >and it should be closer to the levels we expect. Mac users will not see it >until >probably fall, and of course everyone will have to download it... > > Since posting our page two >>weeks ago, we have turned up a nasty little problem...lack of telnet >>support is becoming increasingly common. > >Lack of telnet and lack of Usenet newsgroups. It seems most people think >of the web as *the Internet* and the newer ISP's are not providing all of the >bells and whistles needed to get to it all. Realize too that most public >libraries >cannot provide telnet access and support for users of their public systems, >so I advise web developers to link to what they can support on their own >systems. > >Margaret > >Margaret F. Riley >Internet Consultant The Riley Guide >3726 Nimitz Road http://www.jobtrak.com/jobguide/ >Kensington, MD 20895-1700 mfriley@erols.com >(301) 946-1917 mfriley@ultranet.com > ######################################## >"The Guide to Internet Job Searching" by Margaret Riley, > Frances Roehm, and Steve Oserman. VGM Career Horizons, > April 1996. 1-800-323-4900 > > From casummerhill at librarylrc.uams.edu Fri Jun 14 10:30:35 1996 From: casummerhill at librarylrc.uams.edu (Charles A. Summerhill) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: protecting web servers from robots References: <199606132246.PAA16536@sparkie.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: <31C1778B.605F@librarylrc.uams.edu> chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us wrote: > Can anyone provide information about how to protect web servers from the > robots that roam the internet, such as Altavista, Lycos, etc. I have several > Unix servers and a Mac server. I know that I have heard of a way to do > this, but can't remember what it was. > > Christopher Adams Check out the following URL: http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/projects/robots/norobots.html This document is entitled "A Standard for Robot Exclusion" and discusses the creation of a "robots.txt" file which limits which robots and which directories said robots have access to. Hope this helps... --Charles A. Summerhill LibraryLRC Network Manager University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences http://www.librarylrc.uams.edu/ From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Fri Jun 14 10:38:13 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: protecting web servers from robots Message-ID: <01I5W9K7VZGI00BM1Q@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> At 03:52 PM 6/13/96 -0700, chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us wrote: >Can anyone provide information about how to protect web servers from the >robots that roam the internet, such as Altavista, Lycos, etc. I have several >Unix servers and a Mac server. I know that I have heard of a way to do >this, but can't remember what it was. > >Christopher Adams >Oregon State Library >chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us > > Chris, You need to place a file named robots.txt at the top level of your web heirarchy. Inside the robots.txt file, you can specify which robots to disallow and which to allow. If you want to keep out all intruders, use: # go away User-agent: * Disallow: / NOTE: This is dependent upon the robot obeying the standards for robot exclusion. There is no rule apart from courtesy that dictates that this will keep spiders off of your web. For more information, hit: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If you board the wrong train, Bill Crosbie it's no use running along the Microcomputer Analyst corridor in the other direction. Chang Science Library -Dietrich Bonhoeffer Rutgers University New Brunswick, NJ USA crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From fros at planetx.bloomu.edu Fri Jun 14 11:18:37 1996 From: fros at planetx.bloomu.edu (William J. Frost) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Digitized 35mm slides In-Reply-To: <9606131858.AA06760@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Jim Green wrote: > I've been asked to research the feasibility of digitizing, cataloging, > and providing WWW access to a large collection of 35mm slides. > > I seek libraries that have done something similar. I'm looking for sites > to study as potential models. I also need information on digitizing > hardware and software, cataloging/indexing methods and software used, > and search/retrieval methods, including subject access to the collections. > > If anyone can shed any light on any piece of this I would appreciate it. > Reply directly to me and I will summarize the responses to the list. Thanks! > > ****************************************************** > * James F. Green * > * Systems Librarian * > * Wayne State University/DALNET Systems Office * > * jfgreen@cms.cc.wayne.edu * > * tel: (313) 577-6439 fax: (313) 577-8720 * > ****************************************************** > I haven't used it yet, but our AV Center has a device from Nikon called CoolScan, which can digitize one slide at a time. Bill Frost Harvey A. Andruss Library Reference Librarian Bloomsburg University 717-389-4126 Bloomsburg, PA 17815 fros@bloomu.edu Fax 717-389-3895 http://acwww.bloomu.edu/~fros/ From kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu Fri Jun 14 11:30:02 1996 From: kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu (Karen Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: losing ground In-Reply-To: <960614091535.204054d2@main.morris.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library wrote: > For nearly *anything* new you want to try in a library, try this: > "We want to try this for six months...what are your concerns?" People > react less phobically to a trial than to what they might perceive, > correctly or not, as an edict. At this week's National Educational Computing Conference, Wednesday's keynote speaker, Garth Morgan of York University, addressed organizational change. His thesis supports Sara's experience. He suggests that rather than trying to change an organization, one should identify the 15% of the organization that is receptive to change. Then, one should embark on a program of "permanent pilots". That is, involve the 15% who are interested in change in a series of pilots and accept that this is the way change will happen. Rather than announcing sweeping arbitrary change, allow those who can effectively implement it to lead by example. It was in fact apparent in many of the sessions that an "each one teach one" or "train the trainers" approach seems to be the most universally effective means of implementing technological change. I found this a very informative conference for anyone involved with staff development in technology in academia. There is a web page for the 1997 conference at http://ISTEonline.uoregon.edu/necc/necc97ca/neccall.htm ************************************************************************* Karen Campbell Bush Memorial Library kcampbel@seq.hamline.edu Hamline University (612)641-2482 St. Paul, Minnesota We are "web weavers and dancers at the dawn of the Meso-Electronic Period" ---Paul Evan Peters ************************************************************************* On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library wrote: > > For nearly *anything* new you want to try in a library, try this: > "We want to try this for six months...what are your concerns?" People > react less phobically to a trial than to what they might perceive, > correctly or not, as an edict.//Two years ago, in an Internet workshop > for librarians, I said "It's tough to get 20 years into what you think > has been a good and productive career and suddenly be told you don't > know what you are doing because you don't know the Internet." I was > not prepared for the audible gasp that shot across the room...*many* > of the people sitting there felt precisely that. My experiences as > trainer have led me to incorporate Toffler (Future Shock turns out to > have been about the Internet!) and Galbraith on learning styles into > my course at Rutgers. I want my students to be comfortable knowing > that they can learn nearly anything when/as they have to, for that > I think is the rising tide of the profession. (Thump! jumps off sopabox.) > From sfroebel at tse.com Fri Jun 14 12:01:22 1996 From: sfroebel at tse.com (Shonna Froebel) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Web Authoring Tools Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960614125740.266739f0@tsegw.tse.com> I have been asked to compile a "complete" list of web authoring tools. Does anyone have any suggestions, or has anyone already done this? (Windows based tools are what I'm looking for) Shonna Froebel (sfroebel@tse.com) Information Resource Centre Toronto Stock Exchange 2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Ontario M5X 1J2 (416)947-4653 Fax: (416)947-4662 *** A ROOM WITHOUT BOOKS IS LIKE A BODY WITHOUT SOUL *** CICERO From jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu Fri Jun 14 13:01:24 1996 From: jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Web Authoring Tools In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960614125740.266739f0@tsegw.tse.com> from "Shonna Froebel" at Jun 14, 96 09:11:20 am Message-ID: <199606141701.MAA22145@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> Recently I have been using MS FrontPage. It is for windows 95. Fairly decent. It converts rtf files directly to html. Jian Indiana University Libraries > > I have been asked to compile a "complete" list of web authoring tools. > > Does anyone have any suggestions, or has anyone already done this? > > (Windows based tools are what I'm looking for) > > Shonna Froebel (sfroebel@tse.com) > Information Resource Centre > Toronto Stock Exchange > 2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Ontario M5X 1J2 > (416)947-4653 Fax: (416)947-4662 > *** A ROOM WITHOUT BOOKS IS LIKE A BODY WITHOUT SOUL *** CICERO > > From kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu Fri Jun 14 13:09:29 1996 From: kcampbel at seq.hamline.edu (Karen Campbell) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Web Authoring Tools In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960614125740.266739f0@tsegw.tse.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Shonna Froebel wrote: > I have been asked to compile a "complete" list of web authoring tools. > Does anyone have any suggestions, or has anyone already done this? This week's PCWeek lists the following URL: I haven't looked at it closely, but it does have a list of html editors: http://www.primenet.com/~tcp/index.html This site points to http://fly.hiwaay.net/~cwbol/macarc.html for Mac internet tools A couple of other sites to try: http://www.charm.net/~web/ http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web/ http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/ http://www.hwg.org/ ************************************************************************* Karen Campbell Bush Memorial Library kcampbel@seq.hamline.edu Hamline University (612)641-2482 St. Paul, Minnesota We are "web weavers and dancers at the dawn of the Meso-Electronic Period" ---Paul Evan Peters ************************************************************************* From iblj at ruby.ils.unc.edu Fri Jun 14 15:37:52 1996 From: iblj at ruby.ils.unc.edu (Jane Ibl) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: NC Archives on the Web Message-ID: Dear Colleagues - Here are several Web sites which I believe you will find useful as reference tools. They are the products of research I completed for my master's paper in library science last semester at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. I welcome any input and hope you find the sites useful. Web Page Standards for Archives and Manuscript Repositories in North Carolina http://ils.unc.edu/~iblj/masters.html North Carolina Archives on the Web http://ils.unc.edu/~iblj/nc_web.html Helping Archivists Overcome Technophobia / Automation in Archives http://ils.unc.edu/~iblj/techno.html Sincerely, Jane Ibl -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= School of Information and Library Science University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill 100 Manning Hall, CB #3360 Chapel Hill, NC 27514-3360 (919) 962-1172 (work) iblj@ruby.ils.unc.edu http://ils.unc.edu/~iblj/jhi2.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From nreger at mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Fri Jun 14 15:44:17 1996 From: nreger at mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Nancy Reger) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Web management tools for unix servers Message-ID: What kinds of software are people using for unix servers to manage their websites? Am looking for a tool that combines linkcheckers (that correct URLs when possible), directory tree organization, HTML editor and some of the other nice features available for NT platforms like Website, etc. Am using shareware linkchecking software now, but would like to have the variety of features available in these management packages. The ads for these packages all seem to be non-unix or am I missing something? Thanks for any suggestions you may have! Nancy Reger Information Product Development Mgr nreger@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Baltimore County Public Library Phone: 410-887-6124 320 York Road Fax: 410-887-6103 Towson, MD 21204 From mfriley at erols.com Fri Jun 14 17:28:14 1996 From: mfriley at erols.com (Margaret F. Riley) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: losing ground Message-ID: <199606142128.RAA28726@smtp2.erols.com> At 06:20 AM 6/14/96 -0700, Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library wrote: > For nearly *anything* new you want to try in a library, try this: > "We want to try this for six months...what are your concerns?" People > react less phobically to a trial than to what they might perceive, > correctly or not, as an edict This is a great concept to use in introducing new things to staff at all levels. Think not just of the service to your users, but prepare for the impact on the staff. Managing information services these days needs as much high-touch as it does high-tech to work properly. > "It's tough to get 20 years into what you think > has been a good and productive career and suddenly be told you don't > know what you are doing because you don't know the Internet." I was > not prepared for the audible gasp that shot across the room...*many* > of the people sitting there felt precisely that. My experiences as > trainer have led me to incorporate Toffler (Future Shock turns out to > have been about the Internet!) and Galbraith on learning styles into > my course at Rutgers. I want my students to be comfortable knowing > that they can learn nearly anything when/as they have to, for that > I think is the rising tide of the profession. (Thump! jumps off sopabox.) Actually, I think you should be standing behind the lecturn longer and making more of a point of this. In my current work, I am doing a lot of training of librarians and others. One idea that I am pursuing in my training seminars is equating the Internet to the other information technologies and systems we have been introduced to in the past 10 years. I remember getting those first CD-ROMs at MIT, the first LAN, learning WordPerfect for the first time (in 1989...), and Dialog searching. We did it before, we can do it again! I dunno, maybe some cheerleaders and a few pep rallies would help us out. :-) Margaret Margaret F. Riley Internet Consultant The Riley Guide 3726 Nimitz Road http://www.jobtrak.com/jobguide/ Kensington, MD 20895-1700 mfriley@erols.com (301) 946-1917 mfriley@ultranet.com ######################################## "The Guide to Internet Job Searching" by Margaret Riley, Frances Roehm, and Steve Oserman. VGM Career Horizons, April 1996. 1-800-323-4900 From leon at hawaii.edu Fri Jun 14 20:00:26 1996 From: leon at hawaii.edu (Leon James) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: free street maps on demand! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is a delightful new Web Page you can use free called Lycos Map http://www.proximus.com/lycos/index.html You type in any address and it presents you with a street map of the area. You can then click on Zoom in or Zoom out several times to get progressive maps showing you the areas in question, under different scale sizes. Great for traveling or making a map to your house for visitors or etc. leon james +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** Dr. Leon James, Prof. of Psychology, Univ. of Hawaii ** http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/club/leonj/leonpsy/leon.html ** "Thoughts are from affections." E. Swedenborg AE1146 ******************************************************* From eroderic at leo.vsla.edu Fri Jun 14 20:41:10 1996 From: eroderic at leo.vsla.edu (Elizabeth Roderick) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: Digitizing slides, etc. Message-ID: <199606150041.UAA08666@leo.vsla.edu> Greetings - in response to the recent query regarding digitizing slides: The Library of Virginia's Digital Library project (see URL in my signature) has numerous examples of the digitization of several types of media, including photographs, as well as examples of possible indexing methods. Since we did not have slide surrogates for the print images in our U.S. Signal Corps photograph collection, we had to re-photograph the images. The slides were produced during the film development process, which were then used to create photo CD's. Prior to the creation of the photo CDs, each slide was labelled with the necessary file name for future linking. The photo CD's were used to load the images on the server. The size of this collection is 3,500 images. We chose this route in lieu of scanning deteriorating and curling photographs directly from the prints. The file names were used to programatically link the images to the 856 field in the brief MARC record that we created for each image. The bibliographic database that resulted is keyword searchable via our WWW HTML gateway and the user can view the attached images using web browsers that support tables. The photo CD route might be faster than scanning individual slides, particularly if there are a large number involved. I would be happy to entertain any questions about our project. -- Elizabeth Roderick email (eroderic@leo.vsla.edu) Assistant Director, Library Development voice (804) 786-2975 and Networking Division fax (804) 225-4608 The Library of Virginia 11th St. at Capitol Square Richmond, VA 23219 ***************************************************** http://leo.vsla.edu/lva/lva.html The LVA Digital Library Initiative ***************************************************** From pindar at parc.xerox.com Fri Jun 14 20:47:45 1996 From: pindar at parc.xerox.com (Maia Pindar) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: HTML to Word software Message-ID: <96Jun14.174754pdt.42264@annibale.parc.xerox.com> I am looking for a program to convert from HTML to Word. I believe someone on this listserv already recommended one, but I didn't retain the message and am not finding it in the Web4Lib archives. Thank you, Maia Pindar Xerox Palo Alto Research Center From drisner at swlaw.edu Fri Jun 14 22:08:17 1996 From: drisner at swlaw.edu (David Risner) Date: Wed May 18 14:20:01 2005 Subject: HTML to Word software Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Maia Pindar wrote: > I am looking for a program to convert from HTML to Word. > > I believe someone on this listserv already recommended one, but I didn't > retain the message and am not finding it in the Web4Lib archives. I believe that the Internet Assistant for Word from Microsoft will let you load HTML files into Word as well as re-output them as HTML. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David G. Risner Southwestern University School of Law Network Services Administrator Los Angeles, CA drisner@swlaw.edu 213/738-6762 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From leita at netcom.com Tue Jun 4 06:10:24 1996 From: leita at netcom.com (Carole Leita) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Netscape Bookmarks Tutorials Message-ID: For those of you who would like to more effectively use the Bookmarks function of Netscape or who might be teaching others, I've put tutorials developed for the California State Library's InFoPeople Project on the InFoPeople web server at: http://infopeople.berkeley.edu:8000/bkmk/ There are tutorials for Netscape 2.0 for Win95 and Win31 and Netscape 1.2 for Win31. Carole ______________________________________________________________ Carole Leita, leita@netcom.com Internet/Reference Librarian, 510-644-6100 ext.313 Berkeley Public Library, 2090 Kittredge St., Berkeley CA 94703 URL: http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/bpl/ ______________________________________________________________ From tcopley at gigantor.arlington.com Tue Jun 4 06:26:21 1996 From: tcopley at gigantor.arlington.com (Thomas P. Copley) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Summer Links Workshop Still Open Message-ID: The Make the Link Workshop has been receiving a very enthusiastic response. There are still openings left in the two workshops scheduled to begin June 17 and July 1. A new session has been added that begins August 5. The May session is now closed. Make the Link Workshop is an inexpensive, eight-week training course on the World Wide Web (WWW) and the HyperText Markup Language (HTML). It is conducted entirely by e-mail, making it extremely easy to receive and use. The workshop is available to the general public. The cost of the workshop is $20 US. For more information, please send an otherwise blank message to: info@arlington.com To sign up for the Make the Link Workshop, please send a message to the e-mail address: majordomo@arlington.com with (type exactly): subscribe links9 to sign up for Session IX beginning June 17, or subscribe links10 to sign up for Session X starting July 1, or subscribe links11 to sign up for Session XI starting August 5. (and nothing else) in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. If you have any difficulty with this procedure, or fail to receive a response, please send e-mail to tcopley@arlington.com. TO AMERICA ONLINE USERS ONLY: Please place a "." (period) in all blank fields. Each session is exactly the same, so please sign up for the one with the most convenient timing for you. TPC ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY tcopley@arlington.com Make the Link Workshop http://www.crl.com/~gorgon/ From tomn at internic.net Tue Jun 4 09:16:44 1996 From: tomn at internic.net (Tom Newell) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: InterNIC News, Vol. 1 Issue 3, June 96 Message-ID: <199606041316.JAA27189@dylan.internic.net> Announcing the June issue of the InterNIC News newsletter. The newsletter is available either by mailing list subscription: Subscription address: listserv@internic.net Command: subscribe newsletter Firstname Lastname or on the WWW: Support Services http://ops.internic.net/nic-support/ Newsletter http://ops.internic.net/nic-support/nicnews/ In this issue: * From the Editor: Things That Go "Bump" on the Web * Call for Participation: InterNIC Internet Metering and Demography Clearinghouse * The NSF/NCSA Federal World Wide Web Consortium: Power in Numbers * Larry Brandt, Program Manager, on NSF/NCSA Web Consortium * VIVA: A Commonwealth of Information * Highwire Press: Changing the Face of Scholarly Publishing * Scout Services Update: Gleason Sackman Joins InterNIC Team * End User's Corner: Site-ation Pearl Growing * Registration Services Performance Measures for April 1996 * User Feedback * Get the InterNIC News Regards, Tom -- Tom Newell liaison@internic.net +1 703 742 4796 NIC Liaison InterNIC Support Services PGP Key fingerprint = 5E 86 3D 13 73 19 69 08 6B 54 6A 7D AD A2 37 6D From robaken at pop.uky.edu Tue Jun 4 09:31:33 1996 From: robaken at pop.uky.edu (Rob Aken) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Fragment Identifiers and Tables Message-ID: I have recently constsructed a faculty/staff directory for our library system: http://www.uky.edu/Libraries/emaildir.html and have used fragment identifiers (#) to create an alphabetical link to different sections of a tabled directory. In Ver. 2.0 of Netscape or higher, the links work fine, but users who still have earlier versions, on both the Windows and Mac platform, cannot get the internal links to work. Here's an example of one of the targets in the tabled directory:

L

Does anyone know why this would be the case, and is there a way to write the links so they work in both the current and older versions? Thanks, Rob Aken WWW Resources Librarian 401A King Library University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 40506-0039 robaken@pop.uky.edu (606)257-1830 FAX (606)257-8379 http://www.uky.edu/Libraries http://www.uky.edu/Subject/subject-catalog.html From drewwe at snymorva.cs.snymor.edu Tue Jun 4 09:58:12 1996 From: drewwe at snymorva.cs.snymor.edu (Wilfred Drew) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code References: <31B357AD.6810@UQAM.CA> Message-ID: <31B440F4.59E5@snymorva.cs.snymor.edu> Real Rodrigue wrote: > > Claudia Rebaza wrote: > > > > Has anyone else had a problem with their browser insisting on reading a > > coding error that has long since been corrected? Last week I typed an > > "a" instead of an "i" in and the browser (Netscape) continues to > > show the in the document source even though this was corrected four > > days ago. A colleague here has run into the same problem before but we > > don't know what causes it or how it can be corrected. This error shows > > up in more than one machine. > I noticed this problem with NetScape 3.0b4. I managed to view my > corrected HTML page by emptying the cache: even if I closed and reopened > NetScape, the problem was still there. Emptying the cache solved it. > THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BUG!!!!!! It is simply the way a cache works. Please excuse the shouting. Clicking on reload may also show any changes you have made. It is a very good idea to clear the cache on Netscape from time to time anyway. I set up the autoexec.bat file on my PC to delete all the files in the netscape cache directory. It does require me to respond with y for yes but that is okay. -- Wilfred Drew (Call me "Bill") Serials/Reference/Systems Librarian SUNY College of Ag. & Tech.; P.O. Box 902; Morrisville, NY 13408-0902 Internet: DREWWE@SNYMORVA.CS.SNYMOR.EDU Phone: (315)684-6055 or 684-6060 Fax: (315)684-6115 Homepage: http://www.snymor.edu/~drewwe/ Not Just Cows Homepage: http://www.snymor.edu/~drewwe/njc/ LibraryLinks: http://www.snymor.edu/pages/library/ -- From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Tue Jun 4 10:03:33 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Fragment Identifiers and Tables Message-ID: <199606041404.KAA20558@ohiolink.edu> Rob-- This is a known problem with earlier versions of many browsers. They simply don't recognize name anchors within tables; I don't believe this was required in earlier drafts of the table spec. One workaround might be:

A

Aardvark, Aaron 555-1111

B

Badger, Bernard 555-2222
.. .. .. With some careful use of "width=" attributes, you could still make table columns line up neatly. > >

L

> > Does anyone know why this would be the case, and is there a way to write > the links so they work in both the current and older versions? > > BTW, this is one of the tests included in BrowserCaps, so if you need to know whether a specific browser handles this as you expect, you can check or more specifically -- Thomas Dowling \ tdowling@ohiolink.edu Asst. Director, Client/Server Apps.\ 614/728-3600 x326 OhioLINK \ FAX 614/728-3610 From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 4 11:49:54 1996 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Summary: Web Document capturing software (fwd) Message-ID: A link to this message has been added to the Web4Lib Library Web Manager's Reference Center at: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web4Lib/faq.html under the "Best of Web4Lib" heading. Thanks Jen, Roy Tennant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:37:53 -0700 From: Jen McLeod To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Summary: Web Document capturing software Hello folks! I was overwhelmed with responses to my question on web page capturing tools and techniques. Below please find a summary of the responses I received. Some of the responses were semi-duplicates. I included those that seemed to give slightly different or additional information on the software being discussed. Thanks to everyone - I think the presentation will go splendidly now! (She says, knocking on wood....) Jen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try Paint Shop Pro for screen capture and Power Point for the presentation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try Browser Buddy from http://www.softbots.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You might try Netscape Gold, It appears to have some excellent conversion routines. From the edit mode just point your browser to a particular page and it will download all of the html files and graphics at a single time. In addition it adjusts links for your local machine. At least that is what happened when I tried the 3.0 Beta copy for Mac and Win95. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grab-a-Site works great, just don't ask for too many levels deep or you will see why it is called the World Wide Web, and quickly eat up your disk space. http://www.bluesquirrel.com/gas.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can actually create "local" web pages, which would reside on your hard drive, without any special software. (Although software like "HTML Assistant" makes creating Web Pages easier in general.) To get Netscape to read Web pages that you either saved to your hard drive or created from scratch: Choose "File" --> "Open File" and then Netscape (or whatever browser) reads the file locally. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In answer to your query, I've had a similar problem and the best way round it for me was to use a utility called unmozify. For presentations you visit the site in advance and get all the pages you wish to show into your cache, then run unmozify which recreates the pages locally on your hard disc and maintains all the integrity of the links and any media you brought into your cache. I've found it to be extremely effective and its free for thirty days! You can pick it up from http://www.evolve.co.uk/unmozify/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like WebFetch, a little Windows utility. You can download from: ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10k.zip http://www.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10h.zip ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/inet/webf10h.zip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are several programs that work really well for downloading entire web sites. I have been using WebWhacker (as it was one of the first available). I understand now that there are a couple more of these programs, some of which offer even more features. Milktruck, however, requires Win 95 or Windows NT. I don't know too much about Freeloader. In most cases, you can download the software for a free 30-day trial. Milktruck http://www.milktruck.com WebWhacker http://ffg.com/whacker.html Freeloader http://freeloader.net/index.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- one thing that works for us (if you can use a laptop on the net and then take that machine to the demo): just increase the size of your Netscape cache and set the cache to never refresh; the pages you search on the net will stay in cache memory and by replayable at your demo... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There have been recent discussions in the EdTech list (see the archive at: http://h-net.msu.edu/~edweb/) about Webwhacker (also spelled Webwacker--I don't know which spelling is correct?), and other utilities that CAN download and archive a site's html and graphics. This thread includes a big debate about weather you MAY do this, according to copyright law. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NCSA Mosaic has an "Autosurf" feature that will capture an entire site. It can be found at: http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/NCSAHome.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Try the web site http://www.bluesquirrel.com It has two programs: GrabNet and WebWhacker. I haven't really had a chance to use these programs but somebody else suggested them to me. Good Luck! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm very impressed by WebFetch (Windows only). It not only works, and is simple, but it's also FREE! The file you're looking for is webf10k.zip, which is in most SimTel archives. More info from...... http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/list.htm .....in the "URL checker" section, or for a very useful site on the whole "off-line" question...... http://www.magpage.com/~cwagner/offline.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You might want to try Secret Agent < http://www.ariel.co.uk/sagent > I have only played with it w/o real application so far. I believe it will do what you need. Download it from < support@ariel.co.uk > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have had great success with Web Whacker. There is a free trial period and is quite cheap when you decide to purchase. The website is located at http://www.ffg.com/whacker.html. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Webfetch referred to in earlier messages on this topic is very good for capturing Web sites for PC/Windows - find it at http://omni.cc.purdue.edu/%7Exniu/winsock/list.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************** Jennifer E. McLeod University of Maine Fogler Library http://libinfo.ume.maine.edu/Staff/mcleod.html <--- Staff page http://libinfo.ume.maine.edu/~mcleodj/ <--- Personal page "Risk! Risk anything! Care no more for the opinions of others, for those voices. Do the hardest thing on earth for you. Act for yourself. Face the truth." -- Katherine Mansfield From memort at netcom.com Tue Jun 4 12:23:33 1996 From: memort at netcom.com (Mary-Ellen Mort) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please to consider a question for a friend who is Mac-based: Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs and notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much the better. Mary-Ellen Mort JobSmart Project Director memort@netcom.com http://jobsmart.org From furmanak at lvc.edu Tue Jun 4 12:59:43 1996 From: furmanak at lvc.edu (Stan Furmanak) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <9606041700.AA05989@library.berkeley.edu> I'm using Netscape 2.01 on my Mac and it has built-in bookmark management capability under the Windows/Bookmarks feature. You can order or reorganize URLs anyway you wish, insert separators, and collect or store URLs by topic or subject in folders. You can edit URLs to add/modify a description, change the name (i.e. ) or change the location (i.e.http://[domain]/file). Using the edit/find feature, you can search for a specific URL in the bookmark file by name, location or description. Depending on the keywords or search terms you put in the description, this search feature can find a URL rather easily and quickly. The name of the URL is highlighted and you simply press "return" to connect to the site. See http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.01/handbook/docs/mnb.html for details. Stan Furmanak Systems and Reference Librarian Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA 17003 furmanak@lvc.edu At 9:29 AM 6/4/96 -0700, Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: >Please to consider a question for a friend who is Mac-based: > >Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs and >notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits >keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much >the better. > >Mary-Ellen Mort >JobSmart Project Director >memort@netcom.com >http://jobsmart.org From ammon2+ at pitt.edu Tue Jun 4 12:51:42 1996 From: ammon2+ at pitt.edu (Ammon S Ripple Jr) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Caching in Netscape... In-Reply-To: <31B440F4.59E5@snymorva.cs.snymor.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606041234.A11099-0100000@unixs6.cis.pitt.edu> On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Wilfred Drew wrote: > THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BUG!!!!!! It is simply the way a cache works. Please excuse the shouting. Clicking on reload may also show any changes you have made. It is a very good idea to clear the cache on Netscape from time to time anyway. Wilfred, Go under the Options menu on Netscape and then under Network Preferences. Once there, you have the option to verify the document in the cache against the document on the server and to display the most current one. This may be a little slower, but if you are creating/updating web pages, it saves you the hassle of having to clear the cache each time you make a revision. Our copy of Netscape 2.01 appeared to have a bug in which the Reload button would not bring up the revised document. Also, even though we had the preferences set to verify the document every time it was requested, it only brought up the cached document until we went in and cleared the cache. This seems to have been fixed in the 2.02 version. See the following excerpt from the Netscape handbook: Select one of three radio buttons to specify how Netscape checks the network for document revisions (so that you're brought an updated page from a network server rather than a potentially stale page stored in the cache). The default choice, Once per Session, checks for page revisions only once during the time you start and quit the application. Choosing Every Time repeatedly checks for changes when you request a page, at the cost of slower performance. Choosing Never performs no verifications, thus a page available in cache is always brought from cache. (http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.02/handbook/docs/panels.html#C13) Ammon ***************************************************************************** Ammon Ripple | 135 N. Bellefield Ave. Reference/Public Services Librarian | Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Information Sciences Library | (412) 624-4707 University of Pittsburgh | ammon2+@pitt.edu ***************************************************************************** From leon at hawaii.edu Tue Jun 4 13:28:10 1996 From: leon at hawaii.edu (Leon James) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <31B357AD.6810@UQAM.CA> Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960604071716.4425F-100000@uhunix3> I teach about 50 undergraduates each semester to put up their Home Pages and work with them in the computer lab. Every semester I receive several reports of mysterious happenings with both Netscape and the online eidtors (Pico and Emacs). Just as it was reported by the other two messages in this thread, the file is edited, saved, and viewed in Netscape with the Reload command. There are unpredictable times when changes don't show up no matter how often it is reloaded. In desperation, we use the solution of renaming the file. This works all the time. I asked a few monitors and graduate students in computer science about this. Their first reaction is to disbelieve the evidence, even when several independent witnesses report the same problem. When confronted with the evidence (on a rare occasion they are present while it's happening), they shrug their shoulder and walk away in disgust. I am tempted to formulate and believe the hypothesis that computers are capable of mysterious behavior. I have a computer dictionary on my desk. It defines "bug" as the difference between how a computer is supposed to behave and how it actually behaves. Leon James +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** Dr. Leon James, Prof. of Psychology, Univ. of Hawaii ** http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/club/leonj/leonpsy/leon.html ** "Thoughts are from affections." E. Swedenborg AE1146 ******************************************************* From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Tue Jun 4 13:41:40 1996 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: OCLC PURL vs. server redirect? Message-ID: <v02140b03adda23c9b333@[144.92.107.189]> Hello - Since OCLC's PURL software uses standard HTTP redirects, something just about any web server can do, I was wondering what specific value there might be in maintaining a separate PURL server. One advantage that comes to mind is the potential to put a nice interface on the redirection function (as opposed to editing the server's config files directly). I suppose that there could also be an issue of the number of redirect statements a particular HTTP server could handle in its config file. Can anyone comment on the performance of the PURL software vs., say, the NCSA server? Thanks, PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman Automation Help Desk Memorial Library University of Wisconsin pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Tue Jun 4 14:05:55 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: SOLUTION: Browser reading nonexistent code Message-ID: <01I5IHWI1VC20070IE@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> At 10:38 AM 6/4/96 -0700, Leon James wrote: > Just as it was reported by the other two messages in >this thread, the file is edited, saved, and viewed in Netscape with the >Reload command. There are unpredictable times when changes don't show up >no matter how often it is reloaded. In desperation, we use the solution >of renaming the file. This works all the time. If you are using Netscape 2.0 or 2.01 this is a known bug. It is caused by Daylight savings time, and the computer that is running the browser not being aware of the time change, or how to compensate for it. For wintel/unix systems it is possible to set an environment variable that tells the system what time zone you are in from GMT. Once this is set the browsers seem to behave much more nicely. :-) For more deatils check out http://www11.netscape.com/misc/DST_err.html The following appears at the top of the page I refer to, and it continues to explain how to work around this problem. RELOADING PAGES DURING DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME Because of the way Netscape Navigator 2.0 and 2.01 handle Daylight Saving Time, certain pages that change content more frequently than once an hour may not load properly. The problem occurs when the user tries to reload the page. If the page has changed in the last hour, Navigator, during Daylight Saving Time, will not load the new page. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If you board the wrong train, Bill Crosbie it's no use running along the Microcomputer Analyst corridor in the other direction. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Dietrich Bonhoeffer crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From v9100055 at athena.rrz.uni-koeln.de Tue Jun 4 14:14:35 1996 From: v9100055 at athena.rrz.uni-koeln.de (Ulrich Babiak) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Cologne Public Library on the Web Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960604181435.0067b2a4@athena.rrz.uni-koeln.de> Hi folks, another birth to celebrate :-) just half an hour ago I removed all the access restrictions on http://www.stbib-koeln.de/ which is the WWW service of the Cologne Public Library. Why am I telling you this? Well, for those of you who try to keep track with libraries abroad or who maintain lists of links ... Of course, most of it is german, but I plan to maintain parts of it in english, too - we will add stuff that will be of interest for an international audience. Currently, it is a one-person-site, I maintain contents, graphics, server and all the rest - so be forgiving. All right, guess I'll meet you at our new place .... Uli Ulrich Babiak | Buero ubabiak@stbib-koeln.de Dipl.-Netzer :-) | privat v9100055@athena.rrz.uni-koeln.de StadtBibliothek Koeln | http://www.dom.de/FreiRaum/uli/ub.html From furmanak at lvc.edu Tue Jun 4 14:40:04 1996 From: furmanak at lvc.edu (Stan Furmanak) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <9606041839.AA30393@library.berkeley.edu> Mary-Ellen I'm using Netscape 2.01 on my Mac and it has built-in bookmark management capability under the Windows/Bookmarks feature. You can order or reorganize URLs anyway you wish, insert separators, and collect or store URLs by topic or subject in folders. You can edit URLs to add/modify a description, change the name (i.e. <TITLE>) or change the location (i.e.http://[domain]/file). Using the edit/find feature, you can search for a specific URL in the bookmark file by name, location or description. Depending on the keywords or search terms you put in the description, this search feature can find a URL rather easily and quickly. The name of the URL is highlighted and you simply press "return" to connect to the site. See http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.01/handbook/docs/mnb.html for details. Stan Furmanak Systems and Reference Librarian Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA 17003 furmanak@lvc.edu At 9:29 AM 6/4/96 -0700, Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: >Please to consider a question for a friend who is Mac-based: > >Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs and >notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits >keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much >the better. > >Mary-Ellen Mort >JobSmart Project Director >memort@netcom.com >http://jobsmart.org From gail at cpu.us.dynix.com Tue Jun 4 16:29:37 1996 From: gail at cpu.us.dynix.com (Gail Wanner) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960531014234.00694e2c@ag.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9606041331.C53860-9100000@cpu.us.dynix.com> Instead of trying to convince students (and others) that they need to learn the complexities of web searching, perhaps we should be trying to improve the searching so that people are successful in their searches without special training? Most people find information in the phone book without needing to be trained & they expect the web (and library catalogs) to be basically the same. From leon at hawaii.edu Tue Jun 4 16:36:09 1996 From: leon at hawaii.edu (Leon James) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: SOLUTION: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <01I5IHWI1VC20070IE@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960604103346.2585K-100000@uhunix1> Thanks to Bill Crosbie for clearing up a mystery that has been very frustrating: "Because of the way Netscape Navigator 2.0 and 2.01 handle Daylight Saving Time, certain pages that change content more frequently than once an hour may not load properly. The problem occurs when the user tries to reload the page. If the page has changed in the last hour, Navigator, during Daylight Saving Time, will not load the new page." My solution in that case is to change the name of the file -- temporarily, so as to see the changes. Then I change the name back and hope to be able to see it the next day. leon james +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** Dr. Leon James, Prof. of Psychology, Univ. of Hawaii ** http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/club/leonj/leonpsy/leon.html ** "Thoughts are from affections." E. Swedenborg AE1146 ******************************************************* From vfoao05d at dewey.csun.edu Tue Jun 4 16:47:04 1996 From: vfoao05d at dewey.csun.edu (Kris Ecklund) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9606041331.C53860-9100000@cpu.us.dynix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960604132828.8521C-100000@louie.csun.edu> On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Gail Wanner wrote: > > Instead of trying to convince students (and others) that they need to > learn the complexities of web searching, perhaps we should be trying to > improve the searching so that people are successful in their searches > without special training? Most people find information in the phone book > without needing to be trained & they expect the web (and library catalogs) > to be basically the same. > Gail, IMHO, most people want some one else to find the phone book info for them. Several years ago many library instruction librarian types began using the phone directory as a paradigm for thesaurus search of a database, especially when we were conversing hopefully with K-12 librarians and teachers. Even phone books aren't what they used to seem to be, though. It seems logical to assume, though, that a student who is instructed in searching via two or more Boolean-use products (e.g., ERIC on FirstSearch and ERIC on SilverPlatter CD-ROM or the "ehm" file in Lexis-Nexis's Medline and America: History and Life on CD-ROM) will have an idea of *where to look for hints/instructions* in using a WWW search engine--if (!) they are taught that consulting a guide/hints/help is important to the success of their search and that they are responsible for locating it and using it. Kris Ecklund, Librarian California State University, Northridge 91330-8327 818-885-2281 kristin.ecklund@csun.edu From tomn at internic.net Tue Jun 4 17:45:02 1996 From: tomn at internic.net (Tom Newell) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:41 2005 Subject: Address Correction Message-ID: <199606042145.RAA28423@dylan.internic.net> In a previous message: "Announcing the June issue of the InterNIC News newsletter." The correct URL's are: Support Services http://rs.internic.net/nic-support/ Newsletter http://rs.internic.net/nic-support/nicnews/ Sorry for any confusion, Tom -- Tom Newell liaison@internic.net +1 703 742 4796 NIC Liaison InterNIC Support Services PGP Key fingerprint = 5E 86 3D 13 73 19 69 08 6B 54 6A 7D AD A2 37 6D From wendyjc at wam.umd.edu Tue Jun 4 18:35:40 1996 From: wendyjc at wam.umd.edu (Wendy Judith Carter) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9606040948.A20226-0100000@netcom> Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960604183249.4439F-100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu> The Web Squirrel from Eastgate Systems (www.eastgate.com, I think) is a Mac-based URL organizing application. It's based on Eastgate's Storyspace hypertext system, works smoothly with Netscape and other Internet configurations, and has an appealing "farm" concept for organizing information. A free demo can be downloaded. On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: > Please to consider a question for a friend who is Mac-based: > > Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs and > notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits > keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much > the better. > > Mary-Ellen Mort > JobSmart Project Director > memort@netcom.com > http://jobsmart.org From notjdm at unix1.sncc.lsu.edu Tue Jun 4 18:50:09 1996 From: notjdm at unix1.sncc.lsu.edu (Jonathan David Makepeace) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Better Web Access to the MARC Code Lists Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.960604165733.126520B-100000@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu> I've just mounted some quick HTML to demonstrate how we could have better access to MARC code lists on the Web. It's at: http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~makepeac/alphabet.html Please don't make permanent links to that URL, since I've only mounted it for demonstration purposes. It'll go away in a couple of weeks' time. I didn't invent this. Others have shown me similar coding, including Shane White of the University of Western Australia. If you like it, would you please tell OCLC's webweaver about it? Their website comment form is at: <http://www.oclc.org/oclc/forms/w3serf.htm>. IMHO they've got the best MARC Code Lists on the Web at <http://www.oclc.org/oclc/man/code/codetoc.htm>, and I'd like to see them mark those lists up for this kind of access. (I'd happily do it for them.) If you copy my alphabet URL above (please feel free) you'll also need to copy the following file into the same directory: <http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~makepeac/usmarclang.html>. Thank you! -- Jonathan David Makepeace Monograph Cataloger/Automation Specialist LSU Libraries, 30 Middleton Tel. (504) 388-3331, Fax. (504) 388-6992 Louisiana State University http://www.lib.lsu.edu/tecsrv/ Baton Rouge, LA 70803-3300 mailto:notjdm@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu From cwt at exis.net Tue Jun 4 19:05:07 1996 From: cwt at exis.net (C. W. Tazewell) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9606041331.C53860-9100000@cpu.us.dynix.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960604185853.5359A-100000@sailfish.exis.net> Hi, You-all, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with Gail Wanner. We should not *try* to adapt students and the public to the Internet; we should adapt the Internet to them. When students generally, and the general public, start using the Internet with the "Network Computer" Internet Appliance, they will want it to be easy and convenient using a TV remote - point and press. The professional librarians and information specialists will be the "searchers" and reference experts. You may like to check my page, "The Internet in the Year 2000." http://users.visi.net/~cwt/inet2000.html Sm:)es, Bill. ----------------------------------------------------------- Will print and libraries survive the Internet? The Hampton Roads Central Library (You don't drive to it; you point to it.) Your *REASON* to have the Internet Front Entrance E A S Y L I N K S - Your WWW Hotlist http://wwwp.exis.net/~cwt/ http://www.infi.net/~cwt/easylink.html On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Gail Wanner wrote: > Instead of trying to convince students (and others) that they need to > learn the complexities of web searching, perhaps we should be trying to > improve the searching so that people are successful in their searches > without special training? Most people find information in the phone book > without needing to be trained & they expect the web (and library catalogs) > to be basically the same. > From danforth at tiac.net Tue Jun 4 19:18:23 1996 From: danforth at tiac.net (danforth) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Can you help? Message-ID: <199606042326.TAA20000@sunspot.tiac.net> I have a friend, an educational telecommunications researcher, who is looking for potential participants from Scandinavia in a study of how educators and parents with Internet access locate education-related resources (or don't, depending). She is looking especially for teachers and librarians. If you or someone you know might be willing to help out, please send your email address (and a sentence about you) to deanna@best.com. Thank you very much. Isabel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isabel L. Danforth Reference Librarian, Wethersfield Public Library danforth@tiac.net Co-Director of Librarians' Online Support Team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From peterk at opennet.net.au Tue Jun 4 21:07:05 1996 From: peterk at opennet.net.au (Peter Kumaschow) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Classifying Web Sites References: <9605250415.AA03196@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <31B4DDB9.7BC6@openweb.net.au> Some time ago Eric Lease Morgan posted: > > > http://www.identify.com/ > > This service seems to base itself on the concept of a controlled vocabulary and > structured data. "Gee what a novel idea!" :-) In any event, I too will be > interested in seeing how this idea catches on now that there is some sort of > financial incentive. Hi all, first of all of let me say that I'm not a librarian, I am currently contracted as a webmaster. The site I maintain is aimed at delivering online education in the form of courses and providing easy access to resources that support those courses. Which brings me to cataloging those resources, something librarians have been doing for some time. I initially thought of using the Dewey Decimal system to index a database of online resources and then I looked at the Library of Congress Classification system (I believe that most University's here in Australia use the LCC). Then I started looking at the big picture. There's no way little old me, on my own, is going to be able to maintain a database of internet resources without going bonkers. I could create the database and I could even automatically check the validty of URL's in the database on a regular basis, but I would have to go through and classify all the resources one at a time as they were entered into the database. A time consuming task to put it mildly (perhaps I could restrict it to Australian resources). The identify search engine provides a neat solution: get the creator of the document to classify their own pages. Perhaps we could put the Library of Congress Classification codes in there as well. Perhaps we could use meta tags rather than the identify system. We would need the libraries to provide the resources to make it easy for authors to classify their creations (and to classify materials that are not electronic or have not been classified). And we would need authoring tools to facilitate insertion of the appropriate mark up. It's a big job but we need some method of doing this. And it would be easier if we all did it together. I'm not suggesting that we classify all the private and personal home pages or pages like the Lesbian Barbie home page (what's the LCC for that?!), maybe only sites that publish "quality" information need be classified and the rest can be left to search engines like Yahoo etc etc. Anyway I just need some feedback on what's been running around in my head for the past couple of weeks and this seems like a good place to do it. What do you think? ----------------------------------- Peter Kumaschow Email: peterk@openweb.net.au Phone: 02 267 1222 ext 110 Mobile: 0419297948 URL: http://www.wr.com.au/webtext http://www.opennet.net.au/ From Jenkins_Peter/SLSA at dino.slsa.sa.gov.au Tue Jun 4 22:14:50 1996 From: Jenkins_Peter/SLSA at dino.slsa.sa.gov.au (Jenkins_Peter/SLSA@dino.slsa.sa.gov.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Deleting files in netscape cache directory Message-ID: <196B6616@MHS> Bill Drew wrote: > I set up the autoexec.bat file on my PC to delete all the files in the netscape > cache directory. It does require me to respond with y for yes but that is okay. This line in my autoexec.bat file echo y|del c:\netscape\cache\*.* doesn't require the user to type a "y", so autoexec continues without interruption. Peter Jenkins peterj@slsa.sa.gov.au From Jenkins_Peter/SLSA at dino.slsa.sa.gov.au Wed Jun 5 01:06:54 1996 From: Jenkins_Peter/SLSA at dino.slsa.sa.gov.au (Jenkins_Peter/SLSA@dino.slsa.sa.gov.au) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:42 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <33F22315@MHS> Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: > Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs > and notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits > keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much > the better. Jon Pugh has created a HyperCard stack called "URLs" which can be downloaded from http://iw.cts.com/~jonpugh/hyperstuff.html The description on that page is : "URLs (449K) is a database of URLs completely categorized and controlled by AppleScript and HyperTalk so that it can communicate with Netscape, place URLs in indexed and expandable categories and perform as a much more complete bookmark manager than Netscape's simple menu can. It sorts, timestamps, verifies, gets names, supports copying into and out of the database and lots more! It also supports balloon help, so simply point at everything to find out what it does. I find this essential!" To use this stack, your friend will need Apple's HyperCard Player which comes free with every Mac, and the AppleScript extension, which is part of System 7.5. If your friend has mislaid the HyperCard Player, it can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/Apple.Software.Updates/US/ Macintosh/Utilities/Hypercard_Player_2.3.5.sea.hqx Peter Jenkins peterj@slsa.sa.gov.au From Margareta_S._Knauff at dsmllp.com Thu Jun 6 09:34:16 1996 From: Margareta_S._Knauff at dsmllp.com (Margareta S. Knauff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Browser independence Message-ID: <9605068340.AA834075468@ccmgate2.dsmllp.com> A good site to look at for HTML stuff is A Compendium of HTML Elements. Tells you all the tags and what is widely supported, what isn't, and/or what browsers do. It's at: http://www.synapse.net/~woodall/html.htm I think browser independence *may* be just not using HTML tags invented by particular browsers (say Netscape or Microsoft), instead sticking with HTML 2.0. The good thing about browser independence (if you don't want to maintain multiple versions of pages for those who can view tables, and those who can't, for example), is that everyone, no matter what kind of connection or browser they have, can view your pages. The only downside (that I can see) is that your pages might not be as snazzy as someone else's. And that gets into a whole another debate about content vs. appearance... Margareta Knauff Technical & Online Services Librarian (& WebIt) Dickstein, Shapiro & Morin, L.L.P. Margareta_S._Knauff@dsmllp.com ***Opinions expressed are my own - not those of my organization*** From fmay at metronet.com Thu Jun 6 09:07:56 1996 From: fmay at metronet.com (fmay - TCJCS Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Frames; was Re: Students use of search engines -Reply In-Reply-To: <01I5JWOQCHIAE0PZ9M@Opus1.COM> Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.92.960606075555.5498A-100000@fohnix.metronet.com> On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Elisabeth Roche wrote: > Someone asked me last month what I thought about frames. I said, I don't > think I like them, everything's *way too organized*. > > But I thought about what I had said, just what is it that is driving me > crazy about frames? My quarrel with them is that they clutter up the small space of the monitor screen too much, making it hard to read things. In addition to programmers and librarians, the Web needs people who are familiar with page layout and design, to make these new communication tools not only aesthetic but effective. > We didn't get a Sunday newspaper and that has the TV guide in it. So > guideless I turned on the cable tv listings to see what might be on in the > next hour. > > I stood speechless as I watched the frame at the top run the action ads for > whatever show, and the endlessly scrolling, tedious, slow, list of channels > and their current status. > > Look! The Jones Cable tv guide looks exactly like every page I've seen using > frames. > > So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? > > Phooey and "off with their heads." Amen to that! > Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com > serendipity RULES! Diane Nahl's comments bear out my point: > > >Next, "I don't see what I got." (They often just do not see the postings > >on the screen--a kind of screen blindness effect. The screens are highly > >organized and THE MOST prominent thing is often an advertisement that > >has, of course, nothing to do with the search, so they wonder aloud, > >"what's this doing here?", and miss the postings.) One reason why I like WebCrawler. Let's hear it for "Plenty of white space!" Regards, Frances A. May Ft. Worth, TX From eric_morgan at ncsu.edu Thu Jun 6 09:08:15 1996 From: eric_morgan at ncsu.edu (Eric Lease Morgan) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Re> Classifying Web Sites Message-ID: <9606061308.AA23242@library.berkeley.edu> > Some time ago Eric Lease Morgan posted: > > > > > http://www.identify.com/ > > > > This service seems to base itself on the concept of a controlled > > vocabulary and structured data. "Gee what a novel idea!" :-) Peter Kumaschow <peterk@opennet.net.au> said: > I'm not suggesting that we classify all the private and personal > home pages or pages like the Lesbian Barbie home page > (what's the LCC for that?!), maybe only sites that publish > "quality" information need be classified and the rest can be > left to search engines like Yahoo etc etc. Based on my experience, when some librarian says "We should catalog the Internet", then invariably other librarians say, "There are too many things and too many things of poor quality." I agree, and I believe Peter Kumaschaw agrees as well. To elaborate my point, I advocate the application of thesaurus terms (a controlled vocabulary) to collections of Internet resources brought together by librarians for their individual institutions/clientele. The thesaurus terms could from any one or a number of already created thesauri existing in our libraries for things like MEDLINE, AGRICOLA, INSPEC, Library of Congress, Sears, Engineering Index, Art Index, Biologcial Abstracts, etc. Alternatively we could create new thesauri since the existing ones are slow to change. Since these collections are intended for our represpective communities, these collections will only include "quality" Internet resources. Lastly, the only way this sort of thing could be managed is with a database program. This database program could generate two types of reports. The first would be HTML files for placing on our Webs. The second type of report could be MARC records to be uploaded to OCLC or shared with libraries through some other means. Furthermore, these same records could be inserted into our OPACS. -- Eric Lease Morgan NCSU Libraries http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/staff/morgan/ From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Thu Jun 6 09:23:36 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: more on Javascript, Perl, et alia Message-ID: <01I5L0MGI9DY008F2Q@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> At 01:11 PM 6/5/96 -0700, JQ Johnson wrote: > - any other programming language supported by your web server. If > you have a non-Unix web server, Perl may not even be a viable > choice. > I agree with most of the content of JQ's post, but I did want to add one thing. Perl has been ported to every major platform and some mionor ones as well. Any CPAN archive will provide Perl for any flavor of Unix, Dos/Wintel, Win NT, Macintosh (a _great port which I have used extensively), and OS/2 to name a few. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If you board the wrong train, Bill Crosbie it's no use running along the Microcomputer Analyst corridor in the other direction. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Dietrich Bonhoeffer crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Thu Jun 6 09:23:37 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: a few more steps together :-) Message-ID: <01I5L0MHWMNW008F2Q@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> At 01:56 PM 6/5/96 -0700, Vivienne Cuff wrote: > > >> To pick up on remarks of Nick Arnett and Gail Wanner, I think the goal is >> for librarians and techies to work together to make information products >> easy to use, with the details transparent to the user. > >My 2c worth - I think we should include in any design team graphic, >information and user interface designers. These people also have a >long history of dealing with information to make it easy to use >etc. > I heartily agree with this statement. The Information Media Design Group at Rutgers was founded on that very premise. Our most successful WWW projects have always included a core trio from different disciplines - Digital/Graphic Artist, Library/Information Specialist, and Computer Programmer/System Analyst. What is great is that I can focus on what I do best - programming, scripting and creating schema to allow for automated maintenance of the site. The librarian organizes the information in a logical structure for 'human consumption', defining the pathways through the information space, and the graphic designer gives the sight both visual appeal _and_ intuitive navigation. When you add this to a content provider (faculty member), interesting things start to happen! It is very important to remember that graphic artists are trained to communicate information in a visual medium - and that their skills are necessary (though not sufficient, as many ad agencies turned WWW designers would have you believe) in the design of a WWW site. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If you board the wrong train, Bill Crosbie it's no use running along the Microcomputer Analyst corridor in the other direction. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Dietrich Bonhoeffer crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From jr5 at ganet.net Thu Jun 6 09:51:00 1996 From: jr5 at ganet.net (James D. Rubottom) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Frames; was Re: Students use of search engines -Reply Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960606135100.002eb22c@mail.ganet.net> I agree fully. Even with larger monitors, screen real estate can become cluttered very quickly. While I also agree with the comment that we need to include more people with familiarity with page layout and design, I would suggest that now would be a good time to start thinking of something closer to information presentation and design. While I still love printed materials, I think it would be good to begin to think outside the limitations of print technology. Just my two cents worth. At 06:20 AM 6/6/96 -0700, you wrote: >My quarrel with them is that they clutter up the small space of the >monitor screen too much, making it hard to read things. In addition to >programmers and librarians, the Web needs people who are familiar with >page layout and design, to make these new communication tools not only >aesthetic but effective. > >Frances A. May >Ft. Worth, TX > James Rubottom Hilliard, OH From brown at aztec.lib.utk.edu Thu Jun 6 10:04:05 1996 From: brown at aztec.lib.utk.edu (Melinda Brown) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Browser independence In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960606004627.2c3fa27a@glenpub.lib.az.us> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.93.960606094413.23778B-100000@aztec.lib.utk.edu> On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Joe Schallan wrote: > And, philosophically, is browser independence worth striving for? > I know my site doesn't look so great with Chameleon Websurfer, > but then how many people are using this browser? Any comments > on the appropriate place at which to aim on the Great Chain of > Features? Well, I'm not sure how up to a "philosophical" debate I am, but in the net world that I have to design for, I have faculty and staff whose access to the Net ranges from the most current version of Netscape to Netscape 1.x to those whose only access is through Lynx. The computers they use range from all powers of Mac and Pentiums to 286 PCs. So I try to design platform independently (using the Bare-Bones Guide quite faithfully). If I wasn't able to do that, I'd try to provide an alternative for the lower-end users. I've also found tricks like inserting info in a table with the <pre> tag will help it look nice in lynx. (See http://scholar.lib.utk.edu/netserv/staff.html) Fortunately, I've only had to contend with Netscape and lynx users in my _primary_ audience of the UTK campus. However, if I design for some larger scale audience, I try to simplify everything. After all, many people out there are still connecting with 2400 baud modems on 286's at home or have only Lynx access. I guess my deciding factor is that I'm more interested in providing the information to as many people in my target audience as is possible than making the best looking page on the Web. - Melinda --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Melinda F. Brown mfbrown@utk.edu Electronic Services Librarian (423) 974-3652 (voice) Hodges Library, UT - Knoxville (423) 974-2708 (fax) Knoxville, TN 37996-1000 From ucyljae at ucl.ac.uk Thu Jun 6 10:45:00 1996 From: ucyljae at ucl.ac.uk (Judith Edwards) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Browser independence Message-ID: <9606061445.AA10674@library.berkeley.edu> >Well, I'm not sure how up to a "philosophical" debate I am, but in the net >world that I have to design for, I have faculty and staff whose access to >the Net ranges from the most current version of Netscape to Netscape 1.x >to those whose only access is through Lynx. The computers they use range >from all powers of Mac and Pentiums to 286 PCs. > >So I try to design platform independently (using the Bare-Bones Guide >quite faithfully). If I wasn't able to do that, I'd try to provide an >alternative for the lower-end users. I've also found tricks like >inserting info in a table with the <pre> tag will help it look nice in >lynx. (See http://scholar.lib.utk.edu/netserv/staff.html) I heartily agree. We've just had some statistics on accesses to our Web server; Netscape (various versions) is of course first by a long way. But the *next* most common access method is by Lynx. All the others (MS Explorer, Mosaic etc. etc.) are a long way behind. Judith Judith Edwards, Assistant Librarian University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT, UK Tel: 0171-380 7833 Fax: 0171-380 7373 e-mail: j.a.edwards@ucl.ac.uk http://www.ucl.ac.uk/Library/ From narnett at Verity.COM Thu Jun 6 11:14:18 1996 From: narnett at Verity.COM (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Agents (Was Re: Students use of search engines.) Message-ID: <v02130501addca23ca932@[198.70.100.89]> >The Holy Grail of electronic information retrieval is precision natural >language searching. Certainly many people think so, but at least some of who build search products see it as much more complex. Natural language is just one issue. Our product development includes other things such as clustering, smarter query expansion and much more. Ultimately, the search engine's results are simply the software's opinion of which documents matched the words or phrases that you supplied to it. When you realize that it's that subjective (which must include an appreciation for our lack of understanding the subtleties and complexities of languages) you realize that for a search engine to do what some imagine is around the corner, they'll have to be much smarter than people. No amount of brute force computing power gets you there. And even when you have good search algorithms, you have to be able to scale from the desktop to the server, gateway to many document storage systems (files, Web, database, etc.), filter the words out of many document formats, and give people access to search and agents from the interfaces they normally use (the Web, groupware, e-mail, etc.). >If you want to see the future, check out an Article entitled 'Agents of >change' in the May 96 issue of Internet World. I think that eventually no >one will ever touch a search engine. All searching will be done on your >behalf by agents. This begs the definition of agent, doesn't it? Right now, it generally refers to persistent searches. In other words, you've defined something that you're interested in and you tell the agent software to keep an eye out for it. The big problem there is it can't find anything that you didn't tell it to watch for, so you don't see new things... unless you make the leap to searching and watching meta-information, such as the sort of thing being done by Firefly and others. Nick From p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk Thu Jun 6 12:30:21 1996 From: p.j.hollands at lboro.ac.uk (Paul Hollands) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Agents (Was Re: Students use of search engines.) Message-ID: <199606061630.RAA04857@liba.lut.ac.uk> At 08:17 06/06/96 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote: > >This begs the definition of agent, doesn't it? Right now, it generally >refers to persistent searches. In other words, you've defined something >that you're interested in and you tell the agent software to keep an eye >out for it. The big problem there is it can't find anything that you >didn't tell it to watch for, so you don't see new things... unless you >make the leap to searching and watching meta-information, such as the sort >of thing being done by Firefly and others. I suppose what I envision is some type of personal information 'broker' . An agent (or colony of agents) that has your profile of information requirements, but that also communicates with other brokers with similar profiles to yours to do the same sort of thing as Firefly, ie. suggest related subject areas that may be of interest to you. I suppose it would be a sort of 'current awareness' engine. It would of course control synonyms and homonyms in an interactive way depending on what sources it was interogating. (I believe the Harvest system is able to do this, though I have a limited understanding of Harvesting...[Please feel free to jump in here anytime Jim'll. I'm getting out of my depth..]) I suppose that the best approach would be to have existing robots producing the databases of inverted indexes as they do now [Alta Vistas & Inktomis of this world] and then let your own agent army lose on the databases rather than roaming the Net itself. Instead of having a browser perhaps you would just have a client to contact your broker. The clever bit is that it would monitor your communications when you surf the www/usenet and also your email and I suppose your IRC and MOO activities and interactively tweak you profile as your interests change. You would use your 'broker' client for all of these services and it would filter the information as it came through. In fact..... Dear Dr. Amelio, I've got this great idea to get Apple back on track..... Na.. Perhaps not. He must get a million of these a day.. Perhaps Steve might be interested if I told him Bill was keen too... **************************************** Paul Hollands <p.j.hollands@lboro.ac.uk> Internet Information Officer Loughborough University UK 01509 222373 http://www.lboro.ac.uk/info/training/e_sources_main.html From narnett at Verity.COM Thu Jun 6 14:14:15 1996 From: narnett at Verity.COM (Nick Arnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Agents (Was Re: Students use of search engines.) Message-ID: <v02130503addcc7876d6a@[198.70.100.89]> At 9:43 AM 6/6/96, Paul Hollands wrote: >I suppose it would be a sort of 'current awareness' engine. It would of >course control synonyms and homonyms in an interactive way depending on what >sources it was interogating. (I believe the Harvest system is able to do >this, though I have a limited understanding of Harvesting...[Please feel >free to jump in here anytime Jim'll. I'm getting out of my depth..]) Not really. Harvest is an approach to distributed indexing. It was designed to accomodate multiple search engines, so it makes no assumptions about the intelligence of the search. Harvest didn't try to address the problem of brokering searches to heterogeneous engines, which has many sticky issues. The chairs of the W3C workshop on distributed search, as well as at least one of the key participants (from Netscape) are the people behind Harvest. At last week's workshop in Cambridge, the group discussed the goal of setting distributed search standards. The problems start with figuring out how to characterize a source so that a broker could reasonably decide where to send a query. There isn't a good known solution to that problem, though new summarization techniques may offer some. Then there's the query language problem... and the problem of combining relevancy scores. Getting agreement on those three things will take time. There were at least a couple of library people participating in the workshop who are on this list (I don't count myself as a library person; I'm a library user who's here to understand the librarians' points of view). >I suppose that the best approach would be to have existing robots producing >the databases of inverted indexes as they do now [Alta Vistas & Inktomis of >this world] and then let your own agent army lose on the databases rather >than roaming the Net itself. > >Instead of having a browser perhaps you would just have a client to contact >your broker. You haven't added any efficiency if you use inverted indexes (even with the full proximity, etc., information that they may contain) to choose sources; that's what engines like ours do! In theory, some sort of source summary could be created that is more compact and much faster to use for deciding where to route a query... but that remains purely theoretical. >The clever bit is that it would monitor your communications when you surf >the www/usenet and also your email and I suppose your IRC and MOO activities >and interactively tweak you profile as your interests change. You would use >your 'broker' client for all of these services and it would filter the >information as it came through. Clearly, a lot of research could be done (and has been done) with regard to passively watching a computer user's activities and attempting to derive information about his or her interests. The most striking data point so far seems to be that computers have very little data to work with. They're blind and deaf, so there's a great deal of ambiguity in the bits that travel back and forth. The ambiguity tends to amplify recall (finding lots of potentially interesting documents) while doing much less for precision (finding only the interesting documents). In any event, it's a fascinating area, but full of problems for which there are no known solutions. As usual with expert systems, AI, or whatever you call this stuff (a cataloging issue...), even knowledgeable people tend to assume that the state of the art is smarter than it really is. Instead of accomplishing our goals, we tend to redefine them as we continue to comprehend more about human intelligence. Nick From haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU Thu Jun 6 00:59:20 1996 From: haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU (Michael Haseltine) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Agents (Was Re: Students use of search engines.) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960606045920.006b7914@ag.arizona.edu> This discussion has gone on to agents and such, but I'd like to go back a step to the discussion about LC and Dewey. I had this thought last night that something was wrong with the concept of using these sorts of classifications. They are for finding books on shelves! They are a minimalist system for locating things in physical space, and that's not what's needed. In the library, we don't want to have a copy of an item in each section for each subject it covers, so we assign it the best possible single place that covers as much as possible. On the net we can happily 'put' an item every place we think it might be looked for. All I'm trying to say is that it's subject headings we need not classification numbers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Haseltine -- Arid Lands Information Center, University of Arizona haseltin@ag.arizona.edu From nahl at hawaii.edu Thu Jun 6 15:07:22 1996 From: nahl at hawaii.edu (Diane Nahl) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: a few more steps together :-) In-Reply-To: <01I5L0MHWMNW008F2Q@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960606085812.2948E-100000@uhunix3> Interdisciplinary system development teams are crucial to approximating systems that are acceptable to users and experts alike. Don't forget another crucial partner: the end users themselves. I don't mean just in the needs analysis phase, or even in the post-design phase, but as true partners throughout the design process. Does this sound too messy and unprofessional? Usability labs are still quite system centered in their analysis of user processes. However, natural observation, tape recording users in action, feedback instruments, etc. throughout the design process reveals the best information for system designers. It takes time. It is labor intensive. It produces realtime data on users feelings, thoughts, actions, presuppositions, assumptions, concerns, information needs (including system information needs), understandings, interpretations, etc. That cannot be created through the minds of the experts, but the experts (especially librarians since they are closest to users) need to process and structure this user-based data to design systems around user-values. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Dr. Diane Nahl, Assistant Professor _/ From now _/ _/ School of Library and Information Studies _/ on we _/ _/ University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822 _/ are all _/ _/ http://www2.hawaii.edu/slis/nahl/nahl.html _/ lifelong _/ _/ voicemail: 808-956-5809 FAX: 808-956-5835 _/ novices. _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From afrs1 at UAA.ALASKA.EDU Thu Jun 6 16:06:16 1996 From: afrs1 at UAA.ALASKA.EDU (afrs1@UAA.ALASKA.EDU) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: job announcement Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.960606120509.633418890K-100000@UAA.ALASKA.EDU> Please excuse the duplication. This announcement is being cross-posted to multiple listservs. -Ramya Subramanian Job Announcement - Systems Librarian The Consortium Library, University of Alaska Anchorage invites applications for the position of Systems Librarian. Reporting to the director of the library, the Systems Librarian will provide leadership and vision for the design and implementation of library systems, oversee maintenance of all library automation projects,and manage the library's computer group consisting of 2-3 staff and 1 student worker. UAA is the largest of three main campuses in the University of Alaska system. The Consortium Library is the designated research library for south-central Alaska, and serves as the health sciences library for the entire state. It serves 17,000 graduate and undergraduate students, and 1500 faculty and staff. The library has a CD-ROM-based public access, multiple-server Local Area Network using Novell software. Plans to make the LAN accessible from offices across the campus and extended campus libraries are under consideration. The library utilizes Internet-based cataloging, acquisition and ILL utilities such as WLN and OCLC. The on-line circulation system (VTLS) is run from the Fairbanks campus. A process is currently underway to identify a new university-wide integrated system. RESPONSIBILITIES: Two primary areas of responsibility are: (1) Planning and implementing library information systems including: providing strategic level planning and design; identifying appropriate library systems and technologies; projecting budget for implementation and operational costs; formulating implementation projects; and overseeing project management. (2) Overseeing and managing daily operation and maintenance of library information systems. In addition, the Systems Librarian will establish and maintain communication channels with campus computing and networking departments, serve on library reference and management teams, represent the library in campus-wide technology committees, will serve at reference desk, and may work s ome nights and weekends. QUALIFICATIONS: MLS from an ALA accredited institution, strong background in computing and networking technologies. Substantial knowledge and experience in OPACS, LANs, CD-ROM & on-line databases, and Internet at a systems level, in a networked library environment. Knowledge and experience with current DOS, MAC, Windows and UNIX operating systems. Experience with web browsers and HTML. Working knowledge of network protocols including ethernet, TCP/IP and AppleTalk. Excellent communication and interpersonal skills. Knowledge of standard reference sources. The position is a bi-partite, tenure-track 12-month faculty position (Assistant or Associate professor, depending on qualifications and experience). The salary range is $37K to $50K, with benefits. Review of applicants will begin June 6, 1996, and continue until position is filled. APPLICATION PROCEDURE: Submit cover letter, comprehensive resume/vitae, and names and telephone numbers of three references to: Human Resource Services University of Alaska Anchorage 3211 Providence Drive Anchorage, AK 99508 Telephone: voice (907) 786-4608, TTY (907)786-1420, Fax (907)786-4727 Women and Minorities are especially encouraged to apply. UAA is an AA/EO Employer and Educational Institution. Candidates must be eligible for employment under the Immigration Reform and Control Act as amended, 1990. Your application for employment with the University of Alaska is subject to public disclosure. From NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA Thu Jun 6 17:01:52 1996 From: NDGMTLCD at GSLIS.Lan.McGill.CA (Alain Vaillancourt) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: a few steps together Message-ID: <199606062107.RAA23371@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> > From: Matt Theobald <mtheobal@velcome.iupui.edu> > To: Multiple recipients of list <web4lib@library.berkeley.edu> > Subject: Re: a few steps together > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 > > The current state of organization on the Inernet is a good example of how > history does't always repeat itself. It is undenyably a problem. > Vastly unlike UNIVAC, the problems are radically different because the > element of control is lost. There was never the potential that anyone could > access UNIVAC. Quite right, History does not repeat itself in its entirety but quite a lot of individuals in it seem intent on reinventing the wheel or ignoring previous attempts when they are out to make The Better Wheel. So the trick is not to look only at Univac only but look at it at the same time as you are looking at the introduction of cheap books (thanks to new hi-tech like steam presses and pulp paper mills) where for the first time anyone could access books. Anyone capable of reading that is. And also compare it to the introduction of the first cheap newspapers, when anyone could now access fresh news instead of rumours. No radio back then remember, and cheap newspapers were made possible by serious breakthroughs in technology. > > This is the "golden mean". Librarians must have an understanding of > systems in order to see applications. Programmers must realize that > there are models and standards for organization that can be transferred. > Alphabetization is easy enough, but somewhere in the education of > -computer science- that has been lost to the hope for artificial search > agents that do not provide a better way to filter as well as be > comprehensive. As many librarins should be ready and willing to sit at > the table with programmers as vice-cersa. I think the results would be > astounding. > True! I am positive that nothing will get done efficiently if several disciplines do not get together on this topic and equally positive that before sitting down all concerned should take a look at he History of Technology of the last 100 years in order to get acquainted with previous attempts at information retrieval which have failed or succeeded because of adequate/inadequate technology. Au revoir! Alain Vaillancourt From temhof at mohave.lib.az.us Thu Jun 6 17:08:46 1996 From: temhof at mohave.lib.az.us (Temple Hoff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Web challenges Message-ID: <31B748DE.702C@mohave.lib.az.us> Hello all! I'm new to this group though I have been reading it for a week or so. So, this is as much a 'test' of the listserv for me as it is a response. (This is also my first listserv, so please excuse my listserv ediquette.) I am the tech for a total of nine public libraries. We are just now gaining full Internet access and beginning to deal with all the technical, policy, and procedural mess that comes with it. We have been using a nest of link html files, which we lovingly refer to as our Intranet, on our Novell server. Even this group of less than a hundred html files has become a challange to manage. (I should have started by saying I have no solutions!) I have tryed to use a few shareware flowchart apps for diagramming, but this is truly futile. What would be niece is an app that would read your html files and chart them but for you with all the links. Of course, it problably already exists and I'm last to know. -- Temple Hoff E-Mail:temhof@mohave.lib.az.us Library Services Coordinator Phone:(520) 692-5703 Mohave County Library District Fax:(520) 692-5788 -- Temple Hoff E-Mail:temhof@mohave.lib.az.us Library Services Coordinator Phone:(520) 692-5703 Mohave County Library District Fax:(520) 692-5788 From g-fout at maroon.tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 6 04:20:49 1996 From: g-fout at maroon.tc.umn.edu (Gary Fouty) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: a few more steps together Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960606082049.494f3b70@maroon.tc.umn.edu> I have been reminded both in private e-mail and on the list that there some really exciting and innovative new approaches being developed for information retrieval. I agree, and look forward to seeing even more. I do read Wired as well as Online. I was even glancing through a recent issue of Commun of the ACM the other day, and saw something that illustrates my original point. There was report of a pilot project to provide full text (indexed) of selected chemical journals to chemists at one university. The reponse was mostly positive, but the chemists remarked that they missed the CAS registry numbers. For those of you who are not chemists or technical librarians, these numbers are part of an ongoing effort at Chemical Abstracts Service to identify, and assign a unique number to, every known chemical (they are up to about 15 million now). It is often thought that in the 'hard sciences' like chemistry the vocabulary is precise and clear. In fact there is immense variability in the ways chemicals are named and referred to in the literature. By manually assigning these numbers to articles cited in their database, the folks at CAS are using a special form of controlled vocabulary, with strong authority control. Your typical chemist doesn't know beans about authority control, but they sure knew when this valuable access mode was missing. Admittedly this is a special case where high recall is particularly valuable. But I doubt it is unique, except in the sense that the controlled vocabulary was so unusual (eg. 64-17-5) that it was easily missed. Users in other situations would be less likely to notice. Whoa, the irrelevancy alarm just went off. To bring this back to web4lib, I see a lot of Web-based products (for catalogs and databases) coming out, with very mixed quality. Many have not overcome the essential statelessness of the Web, even those using Z39.50 often seem not to support any authority structure. I suppose we could go with the flow and accept the lowest common denominator, but I guess I am too much of an old fuddy-duddy to do so gracefully. Which brings me to another question, what is the measure of success in assessing tools in the new environment? Good old recall and precision have some value, but as we move more into relevancy ranking and interactive querying these are less appropriate. So what are our standards? How do we know when we have met them? I don't know. Anyone?? Gary Fouty Science/Engineering Library 108 Walter Library Univ. Minnesota -- Twin Cities 117 Pleasant St. S.E. #108 (612)-624-1851 Minneapolis MN 55455 g-fout@tc.umn.edu From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Thu Jun 6 17:44:42 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Web challenges Message-ID: <4083E9813A2@gee.natlib.govt.nz> Just to clarify: We have the management of our Web Servers/maintenance on the Site pretty much under control here. Really it is organizational buy-in - turning the organization around - helping them understand the paradigm shift etc. etc. There is already a lot of awareness here in the Library already but it is getting the light bulb to go off - a transformation in how we think and work with this new environment... follows on my previous post about working with people from many disciplines - particularly I am trying think through the ideas in Barry Diller's article - Redefine ... and also Paul Saffo's on context .... and what this all means for Library services. IMHO, this is the toughest bit! Any thoughts appreciated, Thanks also to those who have replied to me. Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Thu Jun 6 18:21:53 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:43 2005 Subject: Web Design Message-ID: <408DDA01BDA@gee.natlib.govt.nz> >From down here in NZ: I am just working through some ideas for the design of new product/service which the Library will be offering via the Web. Two of the best books I have find useful are: "Interactivity by design : creating and communicating with new media" by Ray Kristoff & Amy Satran - this is great for the concepts and general methodology and my "bible" is: "Designing large-scale web sites : a visual design methodology" by Darell Sano. Hope this helps - these are excellent books to use along with works like the 2nd ed. of the "HTML Sourcebook" by Ian S. Graham. Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From elviop at ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au Fri Jun 7 22:58:02 1996 From: elviop at ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au (Elvio Pederzolli) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: windows and the public Message-ID: <9606071124.AA30646@library.berkeley.edu> dHi There We are about to provide our library users a new integrated way of using resources on our novell network. They will be able to access our cdrom network (about 20 cdroms in all), ERL databases on our ERL server and of course access to our INNOPAC library system. They will be able to do this from clicking on icons from a window on their windows 3.22 desktop. We can implement the usual low level security options in windows eg stop them deleting icons, stopping the file run option and preventing them from closing down windows. However, if they minimize that main window or use the alt tab key stokes they will be able to see the icons for the undepinning programes that are running in the background - these programs drive our socket connections to our file severs and allow telnet acces to our UNIX machine that runs our INNOPAC software. They can then maliciously or accidently stop these programmes from running. This means that important parts of the network are disabled and require intervention from our hard pressed computer help desk staff. Has anyone experienced this problem ? Is there a way of locking users into a main window, of stopping the use of the alt tab keys so that all users get to see is the main window. We have built our network on the principle that users should be able to access all imformation resources from the one place and we would not like to change this. Any help would be much appreciated. Regards Elvio Pederzooli State Library of South Australia *********************************************************************** * * Elvio Pederzolli * Tel (voice) 08-2077603 * State Library Of South Australia * (internt) 61-8-2077603 * GPO Box 419, Adelaide * fax 08-2077622 * South Australia. 5001 * (internt) 61-8-2077622 * * E-mail elviop@ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au * * *********************************************************************** From emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com Fri Jun 7 09:38:08 1996 From: emiller at smtpgwy.isinet.com (emiller@smtpgwy.isinet.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Web challenges Message-ID: <9605078341.AA834161939@smtpgwy.isinet.com> There are a number of new programs that can aid in managing a Web Site and Web Analyzer is just one of them. It actually diagrams the web site and offers Linkview site showing all the links in and out (and helps identify broken links; and a Flieview that lets you sort by date last modified, file type and the like. Unfortunately, it is only available for Windows 95 at the moment. There are more of this kind of software out there (just check any issue of Web Week, Web Developer, or Webmaster). You can also find other support utilities from the Web itself, checking Yahoo under Computers: World Wide Web: Programming and in some of the other Web Developers sites. Good luck, Elisa Miller "Whatever you can do or Institute for Scientific Information dream you can, begin it. 3501 Market Street Boldness has genius, power Philadelphia, Pa 19104 and magic in it." (215)386-0100 x 1395 Goethe emiller@isinet.com URL - http://www.isinet.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Web challenges Author: temhof@mohave.lib.az.us at INTERNET Date: 6/6/96 5:23 PM Hello all! I'm new to this group though I have been reading it for a week or so. So, this is as much a 'test' of the listserv for me as it is a response. (This is also my first listserv, so please excuse my listserv ediquette.) I am the tech for a total of nine public libraries. We are just now gaining full Internet access and beginning to deal with all the technical, policy, and procedural mess that comes with it. We have been using a nest of link html files, which we lovingly refer to as our Intranet, on our Novell server. Even this group of less than a hundred html files has become a challange to manage. (I should have started by saying I have no solutions!) I have tryed to use a few shareware flowchart apps for diagramming, but this is truly futile. What would be niece is an app that would read your html files and chart them but for you with all the links. Of course, it problably already exists and I'm last to know. -- Temple Hoff E-Mail:temhof@mohave.lib.az.us Library Services Coordinator Phone:(520) 692-5703 Mohave County Library District Fax:(520) 692-5788 -- Temple Hoff E-Mail:temhof@mohave.lib.az.us Library Services Coordinator Phone:(520) 692-5703 Mohave County Library District Fax:(520) 692-5788 From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Fri Jun 7 08:42:08 1996 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: windows and the public Message-ID: <v02140b01adddd2f10d64@[144.92.107.189]> Elvio Pederzolli writes: >However, if they minimize that main window or use the alt tab key stokes they >will be able to see the icons for the undepinning programes that are running >in the background - these programs drive our socket connections to our file >severs and allow telnet acces to our UNIX machine that runs our INNOPAC >software. They can then maliciously or accidently stop these programmes from >running. This means that important parts of the network are disabled and >require intervention from our hard pressed computer help desk staff. We have solved this by using small WinBatch scripts to hide the icons, as well as performing various other tasks. WinBatch is available from Wilson WindowWare (http://www.windowware.com/). I have no connection with that company other than as a satisfied customer of a useful product. PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman Automation Help Desk Memorial Library University of Wisconsin pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu From stew at library.umass.edu Fri Jun 7 08:47:51 1996 From: stew at library.umass.edu (Barbara Stewart) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Classifying Web Sites (fwd) Message-ID: <199606071247.IAA07898@titan.oit.umass.edu> > > Forgive the ravings of a cataloger ;-) > > Why can't a program be written to assist the web page developer in web > page classification? It could contain, for example, the LC Subject > Headings, Dewey Decimal, NLM Classification, other thesauri of your > choice....Questions would be formulated according to number of uses of a > term. For example, let's use the term "Rock". The program would ask > something like "You have used the term "rock" 15 times in this document. > Are you discussing : stone? > rock and roll? > rock candy? > the motion of moving from side to side? > rock climbing? > rock gardens? > rock lobsters? > > etc. etc. Say, for example, we choose rock lobsters. It would ask: > Are you discussing: the lobster industry? > cookery? > shellfish in general? > > and so on. Just like one of those choose-your-own-ending adventure > stories, at the end we would have a selection of subject headings > classifying our page. Of course this would not work with terms that did > not appear frequently within the document. But for those terms, we could > choose the broad classification area, and be prompted into narrowing down > our topic, as Anne Callery discussed. > > Our product could be called AutoClass, WebClass, or something similar. > > Any takers? > > > -- > Barbara Stewart, Latin American Cataloger > W.E.B. Du Bois Library, Univ. of Massachusetts, Amherst > Amherst, MA 01003 > (413)545-2728 Fax:(413)545-6494 > stew@library.umass.edu > -- Barbara Stewart, Latin American Cataloger W.E.B. Du Bois Library, Univ. of Massachusetts, Amherst Amherst, MA 01003 (413)545-2728 Fax:(413)545-6494 stew@library.umass.edu From brh at agrl.lib.sc.us Fri Jun 7 11:36:10 1996 From: brh at agrl.lib.sc.us (Bruce R. Heimburger) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: windows and the public References: <9606071124.AA30646@library.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <31B84C6A.6D52@agrl.lib.sc.us> Elvio Pederzolli wrote: > > dHi There > > We are about to provide our library users a new integrated way of using > resources on our novell network. They will be able to access our cdrom network > (about 20 cdroms in all), ERL databases on our ERL server and of course access > to our INNOPAC library system. They will be able to do this from clicking on > icons from a window on their windows 3.22 desktop. > > We can implement the usual low level security options in windows eg stop them > deleting icons, stopping the file run option and preventing them from closing > down windows. > > However, if they minimize that main window or use the alt tab key stokes they > will be able to see the icons for the undepinning programes that are running > in the background - these programs drive our socket connections to our file > severs and allow telnet acces to our UNIX machine that runs our INNOPAC > software. They can then maliciously or accidently stop these programmes from > running. This means that important parts of the network are disabled and > require intervention from our hard pressed computer help desk staff. > > Has anyone experienced this problem ? Is there a way of locking users into a > main window, of stopping the use of the alt tab keys so that all > users get to see is the main window. > > We have built our network on the principle that users should be able to access > all imformation resources from the one place and we would not like to change > this. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Regards Elvio Pederzooli > I have been meaning to post to the list our library's solution to the Windows security issue for a while now. The above question has provided the impetus. We are now using two software products to 'secure' our public access PCs. The first product is Fortres 101. This software has been around for a while, but has just recently been updated to be compatible with Win95 as well as Win 3.x. Fortres allows the user to optionally protect all parts of Windows that involve setup, preferences, or disk access. It can also disable access to or resizing of program groups. You can easily limit users to one program group window and hide everything else underneath. I am not sure about how it handles Alt-Tab. Fortres protects from boot interruption as well. Fortres 101 is priced at $295 for a _site_ license! The phone number is 800-331-0372. The second program is IKIOSK from HyperTechnologies, http://www.hypertec.com/ . This program is the answer for selectively limiting access to drop-down menu functions. One can disable any function on any menu in any windows program. IKIOSK works with both versions of Windows. It will even disable 'Right-mouse-button' functions. I was very glad to find IKIOSK. Otherwise I would have had to use something like Borland's Resource Workshop to disable menu items. IKIOSK is still in 'beta' and is available for download at the site listed above. I have noticed no problems with these programs running on top of Win95 & Netscape on 486 machines with 8 MB of RAM. -- Bruce R. Heimburger - - - - - - - Abbeville-Greenwood Regional Library office: 864-941-4653 106 N. Main Street e-mail: brh@agrl.lib.sc.us Greenwood, SC 29646 Voice: 864-941-4650 Fax: 864-941-4651 ** L+I+B+R+A+R+Y = The Formula for Lifelong Education ** From tabrooks at u.washington.edu Fri Jun 7 12:46:52 1996 From: tabrooks at u.washington.edu (Terrence Brooks) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Books awaiting reviewers Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.92a.960607094529.134184D-100000@homer30.u.washington.edu> Everyone is reminded that JASIS - Journal of the American Society for Information Science maintains a page listing new books awaiting reviewers. Please visit: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tabrooks/review.html Terrence A. Brooks Graduate School of Library and Information Science University of Washington Box 352930 Seattle, WA 98195-2930 Voice:(206) 543-2646 Fax: (206) 616-3152 Email: tabrooks@u.washington.edu WWW: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tabrooks/ From matylonj at ccmail.orst.edu Fri Jun 7 15:20:48 1996 From: matylonj at ccmail.orst.edu (John C. Matylonek) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: a few more steps together :-) Message-ID: <9605078341.AA834171940@ccmail.orst.edu> From the Global Agricultural Databases for Decision Support: http://www.reeusda.gov/agsys/adds/library.htm Broader concept concieved at: http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Projects/National/GISDS/inde x.html "A librarian working for HortBase at one of several participating land-grant libraries would have detailed knowledge of the publication protocol developed by the Hortbase Coordinators. Understanding and intrepreting this protocol is important in orienting horticulture faculty to the process and becoming peer-collaborators. The librarian would help define the knowledge structure within the specialities of Hortbase so that descriptive representation of subject objects - images, text, sounds, and essential related links - are correctly associated. Some of this association-building would be performed by Hortbase itself and may, in time, be totally taken over by natural language processing. However, currently, this task would be a natural and comfortable place for the information science library faculty to learn more about and evolve the system. The orientation aspect roughly correlates with what reference librarians currently do. Assistance with the descriptive representation is more closely aligned to what the cataloger currently does. Both of these functions could be performed by one or several people depending on time and commitment available. A typical encounter with ones author colleagues may be the notice of intention by the subject matter specialist to create a file on particular treatment for tomato blight. This work could be done so that the information file is collaboratively developed through network interaction among the SUBJECT AUTHOR, COMMUNICATION/GRAPHICS SPECIALIST and the LIBRARIAN. At any convenient time, the collaborators can work on the developing knowledge file and add links, pigeonhole categories (the librarian) and provide presentation ideas and graphics (the communication specialist). The finished product would be added to or linked to the central Hortbase server. The finished product would be ready for the information searcher prior to, not after, being made available on the WWW." From MADUFFY at vermontlaw.edu Fri Jun 7 14:26:14 1996 From: MADUFFY at vermontlaw.edu (Mary A. Duffy) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Setting up an "intranet" Message-ID: <s1b83cc0.071@vermontlaw.edu> Hello, Has anyone set up an intranet on a Netware 3.12 network and a www server? What were the pittfalls and problems? Did you have to buy any additional hardware or software? How did you limit access to the intranet side of your www server? What are the limitations if any? Any information on how you set it up would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mary Duffy Computer Services Library Vermont Law School From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 7 18:03:48 1996 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Digital Collection and Preservation issues Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.90.960607130222.27774C@library.berkeley.edu> I have been pondering digital preservation issues for a while, mainly in relation to a combined Collection Development and Preservation Policy that I was developing for the Berkeley Digital Library SunSITE. I am now ready to share my work and get additional input. The policy can be viewed at: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Admin/collection.html The current draft reflects input from the appropriate policy group of our library, as well as individual staff members. The full implementation of the policy will include replacing my generic graphic bullets next to links with bullets identifying the particular collecting/preservation level of that item (and linking to the document that describes that level). These bullets have not yet been fully implemented, but to get an idea of how they look and work, go to: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Web/ If you are interested in digital preservation issues, then I urge you to retrieve and read the document announced in the following press release. I have not yet finished reading it (having begun it today on my lunch break), but it is an interesting (not dry!), informative, and thoughtful document on some very tough issues that all library Web managers should consider. Roy Tennant ----------------------------------------------------------------- REPORT PUBLISHED ON PRESERVING DIGITAL DATA CPA and RLG make findings and recommendations of task force widely available MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., June 4, 1996--What is necessary to make virtual libraries on the Internet meet criteria for stable, accessible collections? What should be done to ensure digital information's validity and useability far into the future, as it becomes the medium of both choice and necessity? The Task Force on Archiving of Digital Information, a 21-member, broadly based group that included specialists in publishing, information technology, and library and archival administration, as well as representatives of legal, governmental, and museum communities, has just completed a year-long exploration of these issues and released its final report. Among the group's conclusions: a distributed infrastructure, such as a national system of digital archives (and possibly of data migration and reformatting centers), is needed to collect digital information resources, protect their integrity, and retain them for future use. Interested stakeholders need to come together without further delay to undertake cooperative projects in creating the components of a successful network of digital archives, to develop standards and policies, and in particular to address the legal and economic barriers to preserving digital information -- intellectual property rights and the costs of storage and continued access. In the 64-page report, the task force provides a careful analysis of the nature of "information objects in the digital landscape" that can serve as a tutorial on the issues involved in preserving the content, fixity, reference, provenance, and context of digital files. The report also offers preliminary models for the costs of storage and access under different scenarios. The report concludes with a set of action recommendations to the task force's cosponsors, the Commission on Preservation and Access (CPA) and the Research Libraries Group (RLG). These recommendations also speak to other organizations with a stake in the long-term preservation of digital information and the public interest. "This is a substantive, thoughtful report, not without some controversial principles and assumptions," said James Michalko, president of RLG. "RLG is already conducting work on several of the task force's nine recommendations, and we will be following up on others with other stakeholders. Two contexts in which we're addressing data preservation issues are Arches, our archival server project, and RLG's first coordinated, digital collections project, Studies in Scarlet." Deanna Marcum, president of the Commission on Preservation and Access and Council on Library Resources, stated: "This report addresses many of the questions librarians and archivists have asked about the preservation of digital information, and we are most grateful to the task force. Now practical and, no doubt, difficult decisions must be made by the institutions working on digital library projects. The Commission intends to continue its role as catalyst by supporting some research and demonstration projects to help answer specific questions about economics and migration strategies." The report is available in a choice of electronic formats from RLG's World Wide Web home page: http://www.rlg.org. Copies of the printed, bound report can be ordered from CPA by enclosing prepayment ($15.00 per copy) to: The Commission on Preservation and Access 1400 16th Street, NW, Suite 740 Washington, DC 20036-2217 In addition to making the report available on its Web site, RLG is mailing the CPA's printed version to its members and program participants. * * * Members of the Task Force on Archiving of Digital Information: Co-Chairs: Donald Waters, Yale University John Garrett, CyberVillages Corporation Pamela Q. C. Andre, National Agricultural Library Howard Besser, University of Michigan School of Information Nancy Elkington, The Research Libraries Group, Inc. Henry Gladney, IBM Almaden Research Center Margaret Hedstrom, University of Michigan School of Information Peter B. Hirtle, National Archives at College Park Karen Hunter, Elsevier Science Robert Kelly, American Physical Society Diane Kresh, Library of Congress Michael E. Lesk, Bell Communications Research Mary Berghaus Levering, U.S. Copyright Office Wendy Lougee, University of Michigan Clifford Lynch, University of California System Carol Mandel, Columbia University Stephen P. Mooney, Copyright Clearance Center, Inc. Ann Okerson, Yale University James G. Neal, Johns Hopkins University Susan Rosenblatt, University of California, Berkeley Stuart Weibel, OCLC, Inc. * * * The Research Libraries Group, Inc. (RLG) is a not-for-profit membership corporation of universities, archives, historical societies, national libraries, and other institutions devoted to improving access to information that supports research and learning. RLG owns and operates databases and software to serve the information access and management needs of both its members and non-member institutions and individuals worldwide. The Commission on Preservation and Access (CPA) is a private, nonprofit organization acting on behalf of the nation's libraries, archives, and universities to develop and encourage collaborative strategies for preserving and providing access to the accumulated human record. (end) From davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Fri Jun 7 12:19:48 1996 From: davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us (Bryan Davis) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <v01510103addcb75a9a8b@[198.134.138.103]> A comprehensive list of bookmark managers appeared in the Mac listserv Tidbits recently in three parts. I will send each part to web4lib separately. The first part is below. >On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Mary-Ellen Mort wrote: > >> Please to consider a question for a friend who is Mac-based: >> >> Could anyone suggest Mac software (freeware or otherwise) to manage URLs and >> notes from web surfing? She'd prefer a simple database that permits >> keyword or subject searching. If it played nicely with Netscape so much >> the better. >> >> Mary-Ellen Mort >> JobSmart Project Director >> memort@netcom.com >> http://jobsmart.org =============================================================================== More Bookmarks than Books, Part I --------------------------------- by Adam C. Engst <ace@tidbits.com> Let's face it: the bookmark or hotlist features of most Web browsers stink. They're utterly lousy. Most aren't even hierarchical, which makes it practically impossible to categorize your bookmarks, and the few (like Netscape Navigator's) that are hierarchical don't have the elegance of a well-written Macintosh application. When Web browsers first appeared, I yelled about how we needed a good independent bookmark program, partly because the existing ones were lousy, and partly because those of us who have to use and test multiple Web browsers find it difficult to switch back and forth if we lose our bookmarks each time. Also, since you collect URLs from multiple places (such as email, newsgroup postings, and Web pages), why should a bookmark manager be limited to a single program? It took a while, but now there are tons of independent bookmark managers, ranging from the truly simple to the overly complex. I look briefly at a number of them here, but thanks to the multitude of bookmark managers available, I'm splitting this article into two parts. The first part focuses on bookmark managers that use their own interface for organizing bookmarks, and next week the second part will look at programs that rely on the Finder for organization. **BookMark Manager 1.521** -- Shinjiro Nojimi's $20 shareware BookMark Manager is a limited-time demo application that sports a two-pane interface for hierarchical storage of bookmarks. You can go more than two levels deep, but the Find Parent command becomes necessary at that point - more panes would be useful. BookMark Manager has a Find View that lets you find text in the title (fast) or in the URL and text notes for that bookmark (slower). It seems BookMark Manager has all the basics covered in terms of importing, exporting, sorting, and launching URLs, but its interface needs serious work - the buttons are too small and needlessly trying for 3-D, the main window isn't resizable, many of the dialogs are unnecessarily complex, and there are confusing menu commands (such as Cancel). Although BookMark Manager can launch URLs once registered, it has no shortcut for grabbing URLs from other applications. <http://www.walrus.com/~noyo/BMReadMe.htm> **ClipFiler 1.3 FKEY** -- Casey Fleser's <cfleser@infi.net> $10 shareware ClipFiler FKEY, despite being the least full-featured of any of the bookmark managers, still gets a strong vote because of its simplicity. You drop a suitcase containing the appropriate FKEY in your Fonts folder, reboot, and from then on, all you have to do capture any text selection is hit that FKEY (Shift-Command and a number). ClipFiler saves the selection to a SimpleText document called Clippings on your desktop, and you can use Peter Lewis and Quinn's ICeTEe (bundled with Internet Config) to launch URLs by Command-clicking them. I like ClipFiler because I can easily snag more than just a URL, which makes it great for storing items to check out later. It makes a lousy bookmark manager, of course, but most bookmark managers are mediocre at storing much more than URLs and short descriptions. <ftp://mirror.aol.com/pub/info-mac/gui/clip-filer-13-fkey.hqx> **DragNet 1.0.2** -- OnBase Technology's $39.95 DragNet (with a limited demo) is perhaps the most ambitious bookmark managers. Its four windows provide most any feature you could want. The Addresses window lets you enter, name, and categorize new bookmarks manually (DragNet automatically adds fields for Date Added and Date Last Visited). You can search by typing words while no other text fields are selected - a handy, though confusing interface. The Directory window looks much like a Finder window in Name view with categories for folders and URLs for files. The Directory window simplifies the task of categorizing URLs and browsing among the categories. The Searcher window lets you find groups of URLs containing a text string (unlike the searching feature of the Addresses window, which finds the next matching URL). Finally, the Hot List window contains six configurable pop-up menus that hold URLs in a category. Below the six pop-up menus are ten buttons that, much like the buttons on a car radio, provide instant access to frequently visited sites. You can drag an item from any DragNet window to a browser to launch it, or click the omnipresent Go To button. Snagging URLs is generally a matter of drag & drop as well, but DragNet can also get the current URL from some browsers, and there's an extension included that intercepts Netscape Navigator 2.0's Add Bookmark menu item and redirects the URL to DragNet's database. DragNet's online help stands in for the lack of a manual, and my testing revealed only some cosmetic display problems in 16-bit or 24-bit color on my second monitor. Oddly, DragNet does not use Internet Config, nor does it differentiate between different types of URL schemes, although it accepts non-http URLs. Nonetheless, in terms of the commercial database-oriented bookmark managers, DragNet's currently the best. <http://www.onbasetech.com/DragNet.html> **GrabNet 2.0** -- GrabNet, from the ForeFront Group, is a full- featured commercial ($19.95 with a 30-day full demo) bookmark manager. You can drag & drop URLs into your GrabNet document (it also can grab the current URL in your browser) and double-clicking an item or dragging it to your browser launches its URL. GrabNet supports hierarchical lists in both name and icon views and lets you sort them by label (name), origin (URL), and last visited date. Most interesting about GrabNet, however, is that you can create not only a comment for each URL, but you can also paste in some text or a graphic that displays when you have that URL selected within GrabNet. I'm not sure how I'd use this feature, and it seems like more work than I'd go to while creating URLs. I wasn't thrilled with GrabNet; its interface confused me slightly, and I'm not fond of toolbars and cryptic buttons (especially when they appear in the menus). Other than the capability to find a text string within the database, GrabNet seems to have all the basic features, including HTML import and export. <http://www.ffg.com/grabnet.html> **Internet Memory 1.5** -- The $20 Internet Memory (distributed as a locked, five-item demo) provides a clean interface for adding URLs via drag & drop and launching them with a double-click. It supports URLs of a variety of types, but doesn't use Internet Config to match URL types to helper applications. A neat feature is that Internet Memory can minimize its window to just its icon when you launch a URL; single-clicking that window maximizes it again. Unfortunately, you can't drag URLs into the minimized window. Internet Memory supports multiple address books and multiple folders for organizing URLs hierarchically, which is good, but forces you to edit everything in a dialog, including folder names and URL titles. You can search your address books, and Internet Memory has a Record mode that records URLs you visit with Netscape Navigator. Other unusual features include the capability to write-protect or DES encrypt your address books (can't say that I particularly see the need for either), and the capability to store multiple email signatures or other bits of boilerplate text to copy and paste into other applications. Overall, Internet Memory works, but doesn't have much to recommend it over other choices unless you need one of its more unusual features. <http://www.circledream.com/inmn.html> **MailKeeper 1.0.2** -- Nisus Software's $35 MailKeeper (with a 75-record limited demo) does much more than just keep track of URLs. It stores and indexes text of any sort, and includes functionality to handle email addresses and URLs automatically. Storing text requires first copying the text, and then pressing a hotkey to move the selected text to your MailKeeper database. Drag & drop of URLs into MailKeeper also works, and you can drag URLs from MailKeeper to a drag-aware Web browser to launch them. As an added bonus, ICeTEe also works within MailKeeper if your Web browser doesn't support drag & drop. MailKeeper's most innovative feature is its method of helping you find items. Called Guided Information Access, it provides you with four user-defined columns of categories. Clicking on a category in a column narrows the list of items shown to those that match that category. Clicking another category in the same column or in a different one narrows the list to items that contain both categories. This process enables you to work easily through a large sets of data, and you can supplement it with date restrictions. You can define additional categories for MailKeeper to index automatically when an item is first saved to your database, although the method of getting MailKeeper to do that categorization after the fact is clumsy. MailKeeper suffers primarily from a confusing interface, and it's not really dedicated enough to URLs to be ideal for that purpose. I'd like to see MailKeeper add automatic recategorization when categories are added or deleted and the capability to index and then search an entire Eudora mailbox. <http://www.nisus-soft.com/mailkeeper.html> **SiteMarker** -- Rhythmic Sphere's $12.95 SiteMarker 1.0b5-3 works only with Netscape Navigator. It provides an unusual vertical three-pane display, known as a collection. The top pane contains multiple catalogs; the middle pane contains multiple categories within a catalog; and the bottom pane contains markers - the actual URLs within the categories. A number of windoids complete the interface. The Notator windoid lets you add comments to a marker. The Searcher windoid provides an interface to searching many of the main Web search engines and catalogs. The Stylist windoid lets you change the look of your collection window, and - finally - the Button Bar provides quick access to your eight favorite markers. SiteMarker can import and export HTML, and it has a Browser menu that can control Netscape via Apple events. An unusual item on that menu is Extract Links, which you use to suck all the links out of the current Web page (especially handy for snagging the results of a Yahoo search, for instance). SiteMarker also features a record mode that creates a marker for every page you visit. You can launch URLs by double- clicking or dragging them to Netscape, but you can't drag from Netscape to SiteMarker. Instead, to snag the current URL, you click the Mark button in the SiteMarker collection window or use the Mark command in the Marker menu. Overall, I found SiteMarker full-featured (although it lacks a Find) but sluggish and somewhat clumsy. Still, its record mode and Searcher windoid make it a useful tool. <http://www.rsphere.com/sitemarker/> **The URL Manager 1.1** -- Alco Blom's $15 shareware application, The URL Manager, is fast, slick, and easy. Its documents open as Finder-like windows in Name view, but with a faster response time. You create bookmarks by dragging them in from a Web browser, or typing Command-N and editing the bookmark name and URL in place in the list (rather than in a clumsy dialog). You can search for text in names or URLs, and double-clicking a bookmark launches the URL in your Web browser. You can also open bookmarks in a specified (via Internet Config) helper application. A dedicated menu holds links to the main Web search engines. It's easy to get URLs into other applications, either by dragging or a simple copy and paste, which I find I do a lot in my writing and email. The URL Manager can import Netscape's bookmarks, bookmark files saved as HTML (it can even scan for URLs in normal text files), and Anarchie and Fetch bookmark files, and it can export an HTML page of bookmarks. You won't go wrong with The URL Manager, and Alco appears to be updating it frequently and with powerful new features. <http://www.xs4all.nl/~alco/urlm/> **WabbitDA 1.4.5** -- Mel Patrick's <mel@direct.ca> freeware WabbitDA has a lot going for it. It's quick, easy to use, fully supports drag & drop, and has flexible search capabilities. You create new bookmarks by either copying them and clicking the New button, or dragging them to WabbitDA's window from Netscape or another drag-aware application. WabbitDA can also import bookmarks from Anarchie, Netscape, or another WabbitDA file. You launch URLs by dragging them to a drag-aware application or Command-clicking them in the WabbitDA window. Unusual features in WabbitDA are the grouping of URLs by scheme, and the marking of the group by color, along with a stopwatch feature for tracking how much time you spend online. WabbitDA's main drawback is that it's not hierarchical, and although you can create multiple WabbitDA files, you can have only one open at a time. I prefer The URL Manager to WabbitDA, but WabbitDA is quite good, and the price is right. <ftp://ftp.tidbits.com/pub/tidbits/tisk/tcp/web/wabbit-145-da.hqx> **Web Squirrel 1.0.5** -- Eastgate Systems' WebSquirrel ($49 with a free demo, and for another week you can buy one, get one free via DealBITS) is the most innovative and unique of the bookmark managers. Drawing inspiration from Eastgate's hypertext editor Storyspace, Web Squirrel uses a graphical layout for storing bookmarks, simplifying navigation with a powerful Find feature and some easily accessed shortcuts. With support for pasting and drag & drop (from Web browsers or from other Web Squirrel documents), it's easy to get URLs into Web Squirrel, and a simple double-click launches the URL in the proper Internet Config-defined helper application. Web Squirrel suffers primarily from being somewhat unstable in my testing and from a plethora of unrelated metaphorical terms. This Web squirrel (since when do squirrels spin webs?) creates farms, which contain multiple items (bookmarks) that can be graphically grouped into neighborhoods or textually grouped into lists. You can walk or fly around your farm (what, no horse?). Agents (rather conspicuous on a farm in their dark suits) watch the contents of your farm for keywords and continually gather up matching sites. Web Squirrel's graphical display is screen hungry, but if it was more stable, I'd probably use it since its organizational schemes are actually fun to use. <http://www.eastgate.com/squirrel/Welcome.html> <http://www.tidbits.com/dealbits/> **WebArranger 2.0** -- CE Software's $99.95 WebArranger 2.0 (1.0 was distributed free through 16-Feb-96, and version 2.0 is a $49 upgrade and comes with a free demo), is astonishing in its scope, thanks in large part to its heritage as a personal information manager called Arrange from Common Knowledge. WebArranger can grab URLs with a hotkey thanks to an extension called Grabber and can launch URLs with a keystroke (ICeTEe's Command-click also works). You can import Netscape bookmarks, and - in an unusual feature - your Netscape History file. WebArranger can check URLs to see if they've changed, record your path through strands of the Web, and even keep trying to get into busy FTP sites. A variety of searching and sorting features are available. On the downside, although WebArranger uses drag & drop internally, it doesn't accept URLs dropped into its windows. Perhaps my main criticism is that WebArranger is overkill - if you're willing to devote plenty of time to learning its features and using it constantly, it won't disappoint, but more casual users or those wishing to starting using a program quickly will find WebArranger's myriad options and features confusing. <http://www.cesoft.com/webarranger/webarrangerpage.html> **What URL?! 1.0a4** -- Noah Mittman's free What URL is an extremely simple application that accepts URLs dragged into its windows (you can also create bookmarks manually, although not directly, as in The URL Manager). It's not hierarchical, but you can create multiple windows and drag bookmarks between them. Launching is a matter of a double-clicking the URL in question. There's no sorting or searching, and you can only select one bookmark at a time. One unusual feature is a little padlock icon in the lower left corner of each window, which, when clicked, locks that window against accepting more bookmarks. A second click opens it again. What URL doesn't match up to The URL Manager or WabbitDA at this time, but it's still an early release. <http://www.panix.com/~nam/whaturl/> **WWW-Freund 1.0** -- David Renelt's free <maction@tnet.de> WWW- Freund sports a clean interface, but has little power under the hood. It uses a two-pane window to create a hierarchical interface to your bookmarks, and it has a button to copy the URL to the clipboard and another to launch the URL specifically in Netscape. You cannot drag URLs into WWW-Freund, or snag them with a hotkey; instead, you must paste the URLs in manually. And, although you can add and edit a description of the URL if you like, if you make a mistake in either the name or the URL, you cannot edit them. You can't even move a URL from one group to another as far as I can see. <ftp://ftp.tidbits.com/pub/tidbits/tisk/tcp/web/www-freund.hqx> **Take Your Pick** -- After looking at all of these bookmark managers, I feel the best commercial utility is DragNet, with honorable mentions going to WebSquirrel for being the most interesting, and WebArranger, for taking too many steroids. In the shareware arena, my pick is The URL Manager, and for freeware, I currently prefer WabbitDA. Which do I use? None of the above (actually, I do use WebArranger, but not for its bookmark management capabilities). Tune in next week for the second part of this article, which looks at bookmark managers that rely on the Finder. My personal favorite falls into that category. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bryan Davis, Assistant Director Cedar Rapids Public Library davis@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us 319-398-5124 voice Luck follows effort. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Fri Jun 7 12:19:58 1996 From: davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us (Bryan Davis) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <v01510104addcb860d7f5@[198.134.138.103]> Tidbits compilation, part 2: ================================================================================ More Bookmarks than Books, Part II ---------------------------------- by Adam C. Engst <ace@tidbits.com> This article is the second part of my look at bookmark management utilities. In TidBITS-323_ last week, I looked at utilities that offer their own interfaces. This week I'm changing gears and investigating bookmark managers that rely on the Finder to organize, categorize, and search through your bookmarks. A few additional programs have straggled in since last week, so look for the third part of this article in the next issue of TidBITS, covering everything I missed in the first two parts. **CyberFinder 2.0** -- Aladdin Systems' $30 CyberFinder control panel (with a 15-day fully functional demo) is completely integrated into the Finder, so your bookmarks appear to be files in Finder windows. CyberFinder can create "libraries" that look like folders in the Finder, and you can store bookmarks for all the common URL schemes in these libraries. Creating new bookmarks is a matter of either grabbing a URL from any application with a user-defined hot key, or pressing Shift and choosing New Bookmark from the Finder's File menu. Replacing Shift with Control toggles that item to New Library. You launch URLs by double-clicking the bookmarks in the Finder, or by selecting a URL in any application and pressing another user-defined hot key. The actual URL is accessible if you select the bookmark and choose Get Info from the Finder's File menu. CyberFinder's power is undeniable, since it piggybacks on the Finder's sorting and searching capabilities, and there are some nice touches, such as opening bookmark files from a variety of Web browsers as libraries (which makes moving to CyberFinder easier). CyberFinder's ease of use is very good, but it also inherits the Finder's clunkiness. In addition, some utilities, like Now Menus, don't see CyberFinder libraries as Macintosh folders, although I circumvent that problem by storing bookmarks in true folders rather than libraries, trading the larger file size of individual files in the Finder for the flexibility offered by Now Menus. CyberFinder has two notable problems: its bookmarks aren't available unless the control panel is loaded (but see URL Clerk below), and it can't grab the <TITLE> tag from a Web page if you're snagging a URL from a Web browser. Overall, however, CyberFinder is my pick for the best and most flexible of the bookmark managers. <http://www.aladdinsys.com/cfintro.htm> **DropURL** -- Perhaps the simplest of the bookmark utilities that rely on the Finder for their database work, Peter Marks's <peterm@jolt.mpx.com.au> free DropURL 1.1 uses Internet Config to launch a URL listed in the first line of a text file dropped on DropURL. If you change the creator of the text file to "DURL" (a utility to do this is included), you can double-click the file to launch its URL. Only the first line is used, so any additional lines are available for comments or descriptions. DropURL has no capabilities for easily capturing URLs or creating these text files - that's all up to you. <ftp://ftp.tidbits.com/pub/tidbits/tisk/inet/drop-url-11.hqx> **Duke of URL** -- Although it uses the Finder for all database work, the postcardware Duke of URL 1.0 is unique in a number of ways. It works only with Netscape and saves a URL launcher of the current Netscape page as a mini AppleScript application. You must activate Duke of URL manually by launching it for each page you wish to record, and it's quite slow to work, both in saving URLs and launching them. In part because it relies on the Finder and AppleScript, Duke of URL ends up not being particularly usable in comparison to many other options. <http://www.kei.com/duke-of-url/> **NetSnagger** -- Rod Morehead's free NetSnagger 1.1b3 sports only two features. It lets you create Launchers, which are NetSnagger files you can double-click in the Finder in order to launch the URL associated with them. It also lets you create Draggers, which are NetSnagger windows that facilitate retrieval of files stored at Info-Mac and UMich mirror sites. You open a Dragger window to a specific mirror, then drag the partial URL to a file (say, from an Info-Mac Digest) into that window. NetSnagger works with Internet Config to retrieve the file, or, if you're using a Launcher, to launch the appropriate URL with your preferred Web browser. Creating Launchers and Draggers is a bit clumsy, but using them is relatively easy. All sorting and searching of Launchers relies on the Finder, and although it's nowhere near as useful or elegant as CyberFinder, NetSnagger is an application and it's free. <http://rampages.onramp.net/~rmore/netsnagger.html> **URL Clerk** -- The freeware URL Clerk 1.1 <jeffp@dorsai.org> offers a few features not found in other Finder-using bookmark launchers. URLs (one per file) are stored in text files URL Clerk can create for you if you drop an appropriate text file or clipping file onto the included Bookmarker application. Another option lets URL Clerk convert text or clipping files automatically to its bookmark format after launching them. It can launch CyberFinder bookmarks, which might be handy if you normally use CyberFinder but don't have it loaded. Unfortunately, as with many of the Finder-based bookmark managers, there's no easy way to create URL Clerk bookmark files - you must do it manually in one of a few different ways. Double-clicking any URL Clerk bookmark launches URL Clerk, which in turn launches the URL in the Internet Config-specified helper application. URL Clerk is simple, but ends up being so simple that it's mostly useful to CyberFinder users. <ftp://ftp.tidbits.com/pub/tidbits/tisk/inet/url-clerk-11.hqx> **Web ShortCuts** -- WhollyMac's $18 (with a 15-day trial) Web ShortCuts 1.0 relies on the Finder for all of its searching, sorting, and organizing. Its main claim to fame is that it lets you create an icon for the Finder file that holds a URL. Creating the icon is as simple as selecting something onscreen, although the entire process requires copying a URL, switching to Web ShortCuts, choosing New from the File menu, pasting in the URL, clicking the Clip Image button, selecting an image to turn into an icon, clicking the Save As button, and finally naming and saving the file in a Standard File dialog. Launching a URL is far easier - you can either double-click it or, if you're running Netscape, you can simply drag the icon from the Finder into the Netscape window. Despite the clever icon grabbing feature, Web ShortCuts just doesn't seem sufficiently easy, nor does it offer much over free programs like NetSnagger. <http://www.whollymac.com/wholymac.html#Web ShortCuts> **My Pick** -- I'm slightly surprised by my final choice of bookmark managers. Despite the fact I feel increasingly hampered by the Finder, after testing all of the bookmark managers I've looked at for these articles, I settled on Aladdin's CyberFinder, although I use it in a specific manner. I created a Web URLs folder, and using Now Menus, gave it an icon in my menubar so it's available all the time. Within that folder, I created yet more folders, including one called Unfiled URLs, and I set CyberFinder to save all snagged URLs to that folder. When I capture a new URL, I immediately open the Unfiled URLs folder from my iconic Web URLs menu. I then name the file appropriately, and using the feature of Now Menus that lets you drag files into a hierarchical folder that Now Menus has created, move the bookmark into the appropriate folder. I also keep a To Check Out folder toggled open within the Unfiled URLs folder, so if I grab a URL quickly without knowing if it will be worth keeping, I stuff it in the To Check Out folder for later perusal. Even better, since I can use Now Menus to assign keyboard shortcuts to menu items, I can now go to Yahoo or Alta Vista or a couple of other sites with a press of a key, no matter what I'm doing. Although the Finder can be slow and clumsy, CyberFinder turned out to be the best solution for me. To be complete, I also like Casey Fleser's ClipFiler FKEY, since it's a great way to stuff random bits of text into a SimpleText file. I haven't quite decided if I plan to use ClipFiler or WebArranger for this task, since after Matt Neuburg's article about WebArranger in TidBITS-313_, Tonya and I sat down and figured out more about how WebArranger works (and it's very cool, if you can get past the massive confusions). Another possibility is a future version of MailKeeper, if it makes it easier to recategorize text and generally improves the interface. Tune in next week for a grab-bag of the various programs that escaped my notice the first time around, along with a few additional tips and techniques. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bryan Davis, Assistant Director Cedar Rapids Public Library davis@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us 319-398-5124 voice Luck follows effort. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Fri Jun 7 12:20:06 1996 From: davis at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us (Bryan Davis) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Mac Bookmark Management Message-ID: <v01510105addcb8e8f7fe@[198.134.138.103]> And Tidbits compilation, Part 3: ================================================================================ More Bookmarks than Books, Part III ----------------------------------- by Adam C. Engst <ace@tidbits.com> When we publish articles that attempt to review a comprehensive collection of a certain type of product, we sometimes miss a few products for one reason or another. Here then, are the products that didn't make it into the previous two parts of this article, which began in TidBITS-323_. **Clay Basket** -- Dave Winer's Clay Basket, now at 1.0b8, was one of the first bookmark managers, but in its second major incarnation added Web site management features that drove its bookmark management features into the background. Dave tells us Clay Basket's third incarnation will reverse direction. Clay Basket only works with Netscape Navigator and is essentially an outliner, like Frontier's, that displays bookmarks hierarchically. Although you can drag links from Netscape into Clay Basket's outline window, that merely creates a new outline item with the URL as the name; it doesn't make the item hot (you must manually copy the URL into the item's Location window to make it hot). You can launch the URLs associated with normal hot items by double-clicking their outline triangles. However, if you make an item with a URL into a topic heading, you can only launch its URL by opening its Location window and clicking the Send to Netscape button. Clay Basket can import and edit a Netscape bookmarks file, and it offers a Netscape recording mode. Clay Basket supports non-Web URLs, but only through Netscape. Clay Basket is not so much of a bookmark manager but an alternate editor for Netscape's bookmarks file (making it unnecessary with Netscape 2.0.x). <http://www.hotwired.com/staff/userland/yabbadabba/> **In Control 4.0** -- Attain's $85 In Control information manager (with a free limited demo) recently added support for URLs. Like WebArranger, In Control enables you to snag URLs at any time (thanks to an extension) and you can drag & drop URLs into In Control. Also like WebArranger, you can organize bookmarks any way you like (thanks to In Control's database capabilities). In Control uses Internet Config, can import bookmarks, and can extract URLs from HTML files. Most interestingly, In Control can identify URLs even in other text that you grab, giving you the context of the surrounding text and the capability to launch the related URL. Tim Stein <tstein@ultranet.com>, who told me about In Control's new capabilities, feels that In Control is faster and easier to use than WebArranger. <http://www.attain.com/ic40mac.htm> **InfoDepot 2.5** -- Chena Software's $189 information management program, InfoDepot, now supports URLs in version 2.5, which is a free upgrade for registered users of 2.4. You can drag URLs into InfoDepot from Web browsers that support drag & drop, and once you have the URLs in InfoDepot, you organize them with InfoDepot's outlining capabilities. Launching URLs is done via a script, or you can use ICeTEe to Command-click the URLs to launch them via your preferred helper application. InfoDepot supports three URL schemes (http, ftp, and gopher) but doesn't use Internet Config; instead it routes all URLs through Netscape Navigator. Although it lacks the URL features, Chena offers a free outliner based on InfoDepot 2.4. <http://www.chena.com/chever25.htm> **SurfBoard 1.0b1** -- Abbott Systems' $39 SurfBoard is perhaps the most attractive of the bookmark managers I've seen, featuring an interface reminiscent of a futuristic TV remote control. A tall vertical green button opens the display screen to show your current list of URLs (you can have more than one list). The main list is likely to be long and hard to navigate (although you can sort by name or last access time), so nine "fast dial" buttons in the main screen provide quick access to URLs in categories you set. A blue triangle button at the top of the window lists the last 15 URLs you've visited, and a blue "plus" button grabs the current URL from your Web browser (either Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer). You can drag links into SurfBoard from Netscape, and SurfBoard can import bookmark lists from both browsers. I haven't used SurfBoard for long, but it looks like a great effort. I'd worry about it bogging down with too many URLs, but its features for making recently accessed URLs available will help a great deal. <http://www.abbottsys.com/surf.html> **URLs R Us** -- There are a ton of HyperCard stacks that track URLs, and most of these stacks, useful as they may be for their creators, generally aren't good general purpose solutions. However, Jon Pugh's URLs R Us stack goes beyond most other HyperCard URL managers because it uses AppleScript to grab URLs from Netscape Navigator or the clipboard, can launch them easily, and has various sorting and finding features. Even more unusual are its features to check Web pages, updating a "Date visited" field and "Title" field. Jon's stack has a variety of other features as well, so be sure to turn on balloon help when exploring its interface. If you use HyperCard all the time anyway, Jon's stack is worth a look. <http://iw.cts.com/~jonpugh/hyperstuff.html> **WebPinMaker 1.2.4** -- Hisashi Hoda's free WebPinMaker is an interesting program. At first blush it's just a way of snagging URLs, and then only from Netscape Navigator. WebPinMaker creates a small windoid that is always available, floating over all other applications. Clicking the push pin icon in that windoid snags the current URLs in one of three formats. You set the formats by zooming the windoid and selecting Pin File (a format that CyberFinder will take over if loaded), Netscape URL, or Self Launch. A Pin file is a WebPinMaker file that launches its URL by launching WebPinMaker first. A Netscape URL is the same as what you'd get by dragging a bookmark out of Netscape 2.0's bookmark list. A Self Launch file is the self-extracting version of a URL: double-click it and it launches the URL itself without needing WebPinMaker around (which is true of the Netscape URL file as well, and they're smaller). <http://atom.co.jp/VOYAGER/WebTools/WebPin/WebPinMaker-E.html> **Other Comments** -- Readers always send in lots of tips when we publish articles of short reviews, and I wanted to share a few of the more interesting ones. First off, Mel Patrick, author of WabbitDA, wrote to pass on a correct email address: <mpatrick@express.ca>. **Alco Blom** <alco@xs4all.nl>, author of URL Manager, writes: I'd like to mention one powerful feature of URL Manager (that you indeed included in your review) that I use frequently in combination with TidBITS - the Scan Text command. Drop a TidBITS issue on URL Manager's window (or use drag & drop with a whole chunk of TidBITS text), and voila, you have imported all hypertext links mentioned in that issue. **Aleks Totic** <atotic@netscape.com> wrote to tell us that if you drag bookmarks or folders from Netscape's bookmarks window to the Finder while CyberFinder is loaded, you get CyberFinder bookmarks. The reverse is true as well, so dragging CyberFinder bookmarks or folders from the Finder to Netscape's bookmarks window creates Netscape bookmarks. **Outliners** -- A number of people mentioned using other outliners, specifically Acta and Frontier, to store URLs. Although getting URLs into these programs isn't generally easy, launching URLs via ICeTEe is trivial. **Finding in the Finder** -- A criticism of bookmark managers that rely on the Finder (like CyberFinder) is that they don't seem to have sophisticated searching capabilities. You can search for the name of a bookmark file, but what if you want to search for text that appears in the URL itself? You can if you have System 7.5's Find File program. Open Find File and select the disk(s) in which you want to search. Click the More Choices button to reveal a second set of menus. From the first pop-up menu, choose "creator," and in the text entry field to its right, enter "URL1" (sans quotes). That limits the search to files created by CyberFinder (though you could enter the creator for any bookmark manager). Now, press Option while choosing contents from the second pop-up menu (contents won't appear unless you hold down Option). Then, type the text you want to find in the text entry field to the right, say "apple" to find all sites whose URLs contain the string "apple". Finally, click the Find button. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bryan Davis, Assistant Director Cedar Rapids Public Library davis@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us 319-398-5124 voice Luck follows effort. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From jornsj at pta6000.pld.com Fri Jun 7 18:22:12 1996 From: jornsj at pta6000.pld.com (jornsj@pta6000.pld.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960604071716.4425F-100000@uhunix3> Message-ID: <9606072222.AA25296@pta6000.pld.com> On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Leon James <leon@hawaii.edu> wrote: >Just as it was reported by the other two messages in >this thread, the file is edited, saved, and viewed in Netscape with the >Reload command. There are unpredictable times when changes don't show up >no matter how often it is reloaded. I have also had this happen, specially when editing, saving, then uploading the file to another site. To save time reloading a file, Netscape will use the memory and disk cache files. Since the old version of the html is saved in the cache, Netscape will simply reload that file. I have found that clearing these cache files (done from the options menu), then reloading will force Netscape to contact the offsite computer for the most current file. Good Luck and Happy Surfing!! Janet Jorns Network Administrator jornsj@pld.com Dodge City Public Library Dodge City, KS | --|-- The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. | Numbers 6:26 | From bjones at unf.edu Fri Jun 7 20:49:57 1996 From: bjones at unf.edu (Bob Jones) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:44 2005 Subject: Windows for the Public: Enforced Exits Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960607203814.27745C@osprey.unf.edu> Continuing Bruce R. Heimburger's "windows and the public" thread/question: Presently we are launching DOS and Windows apps from a network DOS menu system, but we want to move to the Windows 95 environment. In Windows95 is there a way to (en)force users to exit one application (and release the license in use) before launching another licensed application? Thanks. Bob Jones mailto://bjones@unf.edu Head, Public Services Division and Systems Coordinator University of North Florida Library http://www.unf.edu/library/ P.O. Box 17605 (904) 646-2552 (SC 861-2552) Jacksonville, FL 32245-7605 FAX: (904) 646-2719 From b.kelly at newcastle.ac.uk Sun Jun 9 16:16:51 1996 From: b.kelly at newcastle.ac.uk (Brian Kelly) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:46 2005 Subject: Browser reading nonexistent code Message-ID: <199606091924.UAA26669@burnmoor.ncl.ac.uk> > Now I'm really confused. I tested the shift-Reload feature several times > earlier today without success. However, this evening it works like a > charm! Has anyone else experienced this? Have I entered the > "Cache-light" Zone? There is a bug in some versions of Netscape in that it doesn't know about daylight saving time. So when it checks the time of the file in the client cache with the remote file, it can be fooled into thinking that the file in the client cache is newer than the remote file. If you wait a few hours, the Reload will work. Upgrading to a newer version of Netscape should overcome this problem. Brian Kelly -------------------------------------------------- Brian Kelly Netskills - see http://www.netskills.ac.uk/ Computing Service University of Newcastle Newcastle-upon-Tyne B.Kelly@newcastle.ac.uk NE1 7RU 0191 222 5002 From librlc at emory.edu Wed Jun 12 08:49:50 1996 From: librlc at emory.edu (Bob Craigmile) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960612124950.140f0588@pop3.service.emory.edu> I have had some recent experiences which have caused distress, and want to share them with others on this list so as to provoke (yet another) discussion on the "big picture" of the web in libraries, and to possibly get suggestions on how to deal with these experiences. I administer our web server, and serve as the chair of the oversight committee for it. The committee's two other members do not have a keen grasp of the technical aspects of the web, and I frequently try to educate them as to how these things work. There is also a director's council in our library, made up of department heads and others, which provides some guidance for the library in general. I am also a member of this council. To cut to the chase: these two bodies have recently started setting policies regarding the content and focus of our web presence. And well they should, since it represents our library. The down side: they've started clamoring for things to be *removed* from the web server (e.g. a serials duplicate exchange list), and have resisted other web services because it would directly affect their work flow (e.g. a web-based calendar system). Part of this is generational reluctance to have to relearn their jobs after 20+ years, part of it is not understanding how this stuff could save time/money/effort, and part of it is fatigue over all the changes technology has thrown at them in the last few years. There is also a culture here which is "conservative" regarding change in any form. I'm curious as to how others have proceeded to defend their webs when necessary. I intend to implement things for myself (like the calendar) and act as a model, and allow others to come along as they wish. Ironically, our web site was just awarded a "Top site" award by some religious group on the web. Before you jump to conclusions, know that I too want the our web server to change over time, and that it needs maintenance and, occasionally, redesign. But I fear a wholesale retreat despite the overwhelming evidence that the web is the current wave of technology to ride. Comments? +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Bob Craigmile, Reference Librarian Pitts Theology Library, Emory University librlc@emory.edu | http://www.pitts.emory.edu/bob/bob.html 404.727.1221 (w) 404.378.6388 (h) From binkley at sfu.ca Wed Jun 12 11:37:46 1996 From: binkley at sfu.ca (Dave Binkley) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Printing from PC to UNIX Message-ID: <31BEE44A.203F@sfu.ca> We currently allow users of our public workstations to print from various applications (CD-ROMS, Kermit scripts, etc) to a file on the Novell server, which they can then email, copy to floppy or send to a shared printer. We have never been happy with the performance and memory hit of Novell CAPTURE and other printer reroute utilities. For these adn other reasons I would like to alter this process to print to a queue on a UNIX box. To this end we have been experimenting with Novell's LPR and RPR programs. Has anyone else had experience printing from a PC (in DOS or Windows) to a UNIX print queue? Any recommended utilities? Many thanks, Dave Binkley Simon Fraser University binkley@sfu.ca From brandis_rushton_g at oslmac.osl.state.or.us Wed Jun 12 09:02:55 1996 From: brandis_rushton_g at oslmac.osl.state.or.us (BRANDIS Rushton G) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: CDA Decision Message-ID: <9606121502.AA27255@hpl.osl.state.or.us> A preliminary injunction against the Communications Decency Act was granted today. For the full text, see <http://www.cdt.org/ciec/index.html> Rushton Brandis, Network Development Consultant Library Development Services, Oregon State Library State Library Bldg, Salem, OR 97310-0640 503 378 2112 x 224 voice; 503 588 7119 fax rushton.g.brandis@state.or.us From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Wed Jun 12 12:15:24 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? -Reply Message-ID: <s1be98c8.001@bsu.idbsu.edu> Bob, I surely don't have any magic answers, but as an "old fart" (as my son, who writes code for a library software firm, frequently calls me with a certain amount of love and respect) in this racket (thirty years this year in library technology), I just want to assure you that the problem you describe is neither new or localized. We deal with it here, too, as do most on the list, I'm sure. What works for me is a strange balance between "do what you want and know is right and let them bitch about it later" and "don't go to the bathroom without asking permission". I'll frequently set up something new and different and then let the masses discover it and praise it. This is particularly effective if there are a couple of people who want this new thing anyway, and who will be strong supporters. By the time the naysayers learn about it (and they won't ever be the first) there will be so much support for it that they'll not dare to object due to fear of revolution. Other times, and particularly if it is something that I'm not particularly in support of, or don't think is worth the trouble, I'll be sure to get all possible approvals, preferably with a few committees involved, before proceeding. Does this mean I manipulate the people and the system so that the automated services (not just web services in my case) come out closer to what I think they should be? Sure. Do I think it is wrong? No. I'm taking advantage of the tools and resources I've been given, including hardware, software, people, and money. Of course I'm not going to do something if the boss says explicitly not to. And I try to be careful of public opinion and "image". But it works for me. You do have to know the people and politics involved, which is why I couldn't give you specific advice on how to deal with your individuals and groups. What works in some situations won't work in others. But, since I've done library technology in six state colleges/universities in six states, a local adaptation of what I describe above has always worked for me. I'll stop for now to do some "real work", but will be glad to discuss these ideas further on or off list. the old cyclops Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From LIB3 at UHUPVM1.UH.EDU Wed Jun 12 12:40:39 1996 From: LIB3 at UHUPVM1.UH.EDU (Charles Bailey, University of Houston) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: WebSite 1.1 Performance? Message-ID: <9606121642.AA28129@library.berkeley.edu> Is anyone using O'Reilly's WebSite 1.1 to support a site that has peaks of 15 (or more) simultaneous users? If so, how has the software performed under these conditions? Thanks for your help. Best Regards, Charles Charles W. Bailey, Jr., Assistant Director for Systems and Editor-in-Chief of The Public-Access Computer Systems Review, University Libraries, University of Houston, Houston, TX 77204-2091. E-mail: cbailey@uh.edu. Voice: (713) 743-9804. Fax: (713) 743-9811. <URL:http://info.lib.uh.edu/pacsrev.html> <URL:http://info.lib.uh.edu/pr/bailey.htm> From jsih at gort.ucsd.edu Wed Jun 12 14:52:35 1996 From: jsih at gort.ucsd.edu (Julie Sih) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960612124950.140f0588@pop3.service.emory.edu> from "Bob Craigmile" at Jun 12, 96 06:04:10 am Message-ID: <199606121852.LAA03035@gort.ucsd.edu> Bob and others, Last year I encountered resistance to mounting a webpage to help patrons contact the right subject specialist for purchase suggestions and consultation appointments. Several bibliographers were strongly opposed to posting their names, phone numbers, and/or E-mail addresses on the World-Wide Web. Their concerns were mostly quite legitimate: 1.) They valued the function of the reference desk as a screening tool, and were certain that the webpage would encourage inappropriate self-referrals to the subject specialists for even the simplest questions...especially since many patrons hate the reference desk phone tree and might be inclined to bypass it by dialing librarians' direct phone numbers. 2.) Some feared that the non-primary clientele, such as local businesspeople (or users around the world), might deluge the bibliographers with complex reference questions via E-mail. 3.) Others had comments like, "I already get too much E-mail and voice mail, so I really don't want to encourage more," and, "Sure, I know my name and phone number are on that handout listing all the bibliographers, but users only see that handout if they know it exists and they ask for it. The webpage would have much higher visibility and would impact me far more." Since I am not a bibliographer/subject specialist myself, I didn't think I had the right to mount the page without their approval. Fortunately, other bibliographers who liked the webpage came to my rescue: 1.) One bibliographer shared his experience of having his name, E-mail address, and phone number on several prominent library webpages for over a year. He was able to assure the others that in that period, surrendering his anonymity had had very little effect on his workload. 2.) Others reminded their colleagues that, as state employees, it is ridiculous to expect the same level of privacy with our work numbers that individuals are entitled to with their home numbers. Which is why our names, phone numbers, and E-mail addresses are available in the campus directory, which is already mounted on the web. 3.) Still others suggested reasonable compromises. At their suggestion, I included text emphasizing that subject specialists should be contacted for APPOINTMENTS, not for immediate service, which is available at the reference desk. I gave the most vehement objectors the option of using the webpage to direct users to ask for a referral from the reference desk for that particular subject. The page has now been up for a little over a year, with substantial traffic and no complaints from the bibliographers. I don't think *I* won over any of the resisters--their fellow bibliographers did. So, my advice to Bob would be to encourage any sympathetic members of those resistant groups to come to the defense of his webpages, or to at least suggest some compromises that would allow him to salvage some of their value. If the webpages have no visible supporters within the group, they'll never be perceived as anything other than an outsider's efforts to force something upon them that they must band together to resist. Julie Julie Sih, Corp. Programs Librarian | jsih@ucsd.edu University of California, San Diego | http://gort.ucsd.edu/js/ 9500 Gilman Drive, Dept 0175V | Ph. (619) 534-8622 La Jolla, CA 92093-0175 | FAX (619) 534-0746 "A jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and 50 thou." From haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU Wed Jun 12 02:42:29 1996 From: haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU (Michael Haseltine) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? -Reply Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960612064229.006a07bc@ag.arizona.edu> I heartily agree with the posting by Dan Lester and want to add a maxim that I hold to: "It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission." At 11:22 AM 6/12/96 -0700, you wrote: >Bob, I surely don't have any magic answers, but as >an "old fart" (as my son, who writes code for a >library software firm, frequently calls me with a >certain amount of love and respect) in this racket >(thirty years this year in library technology), I just >want to assure you that the problem you describe is >neither new or localized. We deal with it here, too, >as do most on the list, I'm sure. >...etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Haseltine -- Arid Lands Information Center, University of Arizona haseltin@ag.arizona.edu From lbspodic at uxmail.ust.hk Wed Jun 12 21:07:39 1996 From: lbspodic at uxmail.ust.hk (Edward Spodick, HKUST Library, 2358-6743) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? -Reply In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960612064229.006a07bc@ag.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <v03006f04ade519ca5a38@[143.89.104.167]> At 1:53 PM -0700 12/6/96, Michael Haseltine wrote: >I heartily agree with the posting by Dan Lester and want to add a maxim that >I hold to: > >"It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission." But, as has been pointed out, different people have different situations. I agree with being 'bold' if you can, but it certainly doesn't help in the long run if your boss is going to say "I want to throw you out the window!" afterwards. - - - - - Edward F Spodick, Systems Librarian - lbspodic@usthk.ust.hk or @uxmail.ust.hk Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Library tel: 852-2358-6743 fax: 852-2358-1043 From kgs at bluehighways.com Wed Jun 12 21:20:57 1996 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Commercial DBs over the 'net Message-ID: <v01530507ade3d809af99@[204.97.113.21]> A month ago I began to draw up a list of renewal CD-ROMs for our site... and realized they had magically changed, for the most part, to commercial databases over the 'net. With some help and suggestions (George Porter, thanks for the tip re CSA), plus a few trial accounts, willing testers from various divisions, and cooperative vendors, we're pulling together a database scenario that almost entirely closes down our CD-ROM tower while it magically opens access to the most remote sections of our region (in the Carribean) and for that matter, telecommuters and road warriors. Again, we need to go final, make some decisions, finish testing (we have some willing victims who have tried stuff out for us), get approval, and get funding. But just for kicks and grins, should this all come to pass, we're looking at a webpage possibly pointing to ip-authenticated and/or password-protected links to (among other things): FirstSearch -- just a few dbs for patrons (staff and public), all databases + full text for librarians, buying by the search in large blocks of searches http://www.oclc.org/ Cambridge Scientific Abstracts -- IDS, not Routenet; includes LegiSlate and some huge, key environmental databases http://www.csa.com/ Galenet -- [still the great unknown--we just discovered this one at National Online, and we keen for Ency of Associations via the 'net... test should start next week] ProQuest Direct -- especially for general resources and the NY Times 90-day backfile... we hear it's now available via the WWW; if so, it could reach beyond the librarians' workstations (we have an allergy to distributing more proprietary client software to users) http://www.umi.com/ SilverPlatter -- we have quite a few CD-ROMs from SP... many of these are now also available as WWW-accessible dbs... we haven't tested these (because we're awaiting an upgrade on the Sun) but have viewed them and we feel these have much potential Counterpoint -- state regulations -- Puerto Rico coming in several months, we hear CARL Uncover for our own periodicals ("training wheels"--if we get far enough this year, we'll go for Reveal and/or Uncover services for periodicals we don't subscribe to) Again, this is just a "draft," but for posterity here it is. I still feel that I'm hitching a space-shuttle to a surrey, because for our areas, the electronic full-text isn't quite there, at least not to a significant extent. But it looks good nosing out of the hangar, anyway... Now for the ONE WWW-librarianesque question (for anyone who bothered to read this far). Assuming everyone we serve has good access to the 'net via reasonably late-model Windows boxes sporting one of the latest browsers... is there any reason to continue to purchase commercial versions of Federal Register and CFR? I'm fairly impressed by the GPO Access resources. And I know that folks do very simple searches on the CD-ROMs we currently have on the LAN. We have a free trial of the Counterpoint web-based commercial versions of FR and CFR via Internet, but though they are nice, they don't seem significantly better (or better at all) than the freebie versions. Are they? Or am I too casual a user of these resources to assess them? Keeping in mind that folks around here are not inclined to construct elaborate searches, is there a reason to purchase commercial Internet-accessible versions of FR and CFR? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Karen G. Schneider * kgs@bluehighways.com Cybrarian * Columnist, American Libraries Author, The Internet Access Cookbook (e-mail Neal-Schuman@icm.com) These opinions strictly mine! From hyeager at server.dwight.edu Thu Jun 13 08:47:12 1996 From: hyeager at server.dwight.edu (Henry Yeager) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: "no hits" on retroconversion of catalog Message-ID: <v01540b00ade6c7b806b1@[205.230.71.53]> We've just about finished the retroconversion of our catalog to MARC records, but we're left with pages and pages of "no hits" from OCLC. How have others dealt with this? Do we do the cataloguing ourselves? Urgh! Do we try to find an other company? Is there a way to pick the information of the Internet? We can't get anyone at OCLC to even talk to us about it. Ideas, please, and thanks in advance. Henry Yeager Media Services The Dwight School 291 Central Park West New York, NY 10024 e-mail hyeager@server.dwight.edu From kewing at TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU Thu Jun 13 10:11:11 1996 From: kewing at TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (keith ewing) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Library Bldg Project Description Message-ID: <31C0217F.5067@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu> For those interested in or undertaking new library building projects (a difficult endeavor in today's climate), or for those interested in another use of the Web to disseminate information, St. Cloud State University (MN) created several pages describing our building project and comparing it with other projects. http://lrs.stcloud.msus.edu/future/dissolve.html The Web information was one of many we used in lobbying the legislature to grant funding for the project. Construction funds were allocated this past spring. Keith Ewing Learning Resources St. Cloud State University St. Cloud MN 56301-4498 kewing@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu http://lrs.stcloud.msus.edu/faculty/kewing.html From hwhite at ccs.neu.edu Thu Jun 13 10:41:30 1996 From: hwhite at ccs.neu.edu (Howard White) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Losing Ground? -Reply In-Reply-To: <v03006f04ade519ca5a38@[143.89.104.167]> Message-ID: <v03007102ade599d504e1@[155.33.211.121]> >At 1:53 PM -0700 12/6/96, Michael Haseltine wrote: >>I heartily agree with the posting by Dan Lester and want to add a maxim that >>I hold to: >> >>"It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission." > >But, as has been pointed out, different people have different situations. >I agree with being 'bold' if you can, but it certainly doesn't help in >the long run if your boss is going to say "I want to throw you out the >window!" afterwards. These technology things are moving much to fast for boss types to consider the web in a timely and appropriate way. The only way to deploy any web pages is simply to do it. Waiting on a committee development process or holding for an executive decision, does not work, because web technologies are moving at such a pace that even technologists creating the infrastructures, can't keep up. But the first moment that deployment stops or even slows, some other group will take over. It's like war. Institutions can't stop the deployment process because the troops skills, knowledge, training and most importantly their enthusiasm for the project, will suffer irreparable harm. And this war is a very long way from being over. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard White, PC Tech Coor., Northeastern University Please visit my web site for more information at http://155.33.211.90/ From pourel at iastate.edu Thu Jun 13 14:06:31 1996 From: pourel at iastate.edu (I. Pour-El) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: reference service names Message-ID: <9606131806.AA07742@pv0b02.vincent.iastate.edu> This may be off-topic but after getting little response on libref-l and reading the web4lib country subscription statistics I decided to try here. Please email your responses and (if there is interest) I will post a summary. 1. What does your library call the reference desk? That is, what does the sign say? Please include a literal translation of the term(s) if in a language other than English. 2. Are different terms used in spoken communication? 3. What do you call your online reference service e.g. Ask a librarian? Thanks, --- I. Pour-El pourel@iastate.edu Reference and Instructional Services Librarian 515-294-1004 152 Parks Library Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011 From curtis at library.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 13 14:43:06 1996 From: curtis at library.ucsb.edu (Sylvia Curtis) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: reference service names In-Reply-To: <9606131806.AA07742@pv0b02.vincent.iastate.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960613114117.9202A-100000@ariz.library.ucsb.edu> The reference email service at UCSB is called ASK. The address is ask@library.ucsb.edu Sylvia Y. Curtis curtis@library.ucsb.edu On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, I. Pour-El wrote: > This may be off-topic but after getting little response on libref-l and > reading the web4lib country subscription statistics I decided to try here. > > Please email your responses and (if there is interest) I will post a > summary. > > 1. What does your library call the reference desk? That is, what does the > sign say? Please include a literal translation of the term(s) if in a > language other than English. > > 2. Are different terms used in spoken communication? > > 3. What do you call your online reference service e.g. Ask a librarian? > > Thanks, > > --- > I. Pour-El pourel@iastate.edu > Reference and Instructional Services Librarian 515-294-1004 > 152 Parks Library > Iowa State University > Ames, IA 50011 > From george_porter at library.lib.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 13 14:32:37 1996 From: george_porter at library.lib.ncsu.edu (George Porter) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:47 2005 Subject: Commercial DBs over the Message-ID: <n1377445863.57081@library.lib.ncsu.edu> Mail*Link(r) SMTP Re>Commercial DBs over the 'net Karen Schneider <kgs@bluehighways.com> wrote: [all of the wonderful stuff deleted] >is there a reason to purchase commercial Internet-accessible versions of FR and >CFR? To the best of my knowledge, there still isn't a freely available, reliable current version of the Code of Federal Regulations out there. Federal Register 1994-> is part of GPO Access. Ditto, U.S. Code (in force January 1994) and Public Laws of the 104th Congress. There has been an experimental version (non-updated, proof of concept) CFR from the House of Representatives for more than 18 months. Law Marks has had a gopher-based service in place that appears to be updated, but somewhat slowly George Porter Coordinator of Online Services NCSU Libraries george_porter@ncsu.edu From rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Thu Jun 13 14:50:15 1996 From: rumsey at blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Eric Rumsey) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Hardware specs for multimedia labs? Message-ID: <v02110102ade5cdca5100@[128.255.94.19]> In our new multimedia development facility in the library, we will have Macintosh and Wintel user stations for scanning and video capture. We'd be very interested in seeing spec sheets (especially hardware, but also software) for such facilities in other libraries - Please respond to me or to the list if you have such a list. * * * * * * * * * Eric Rumsey, Hardin Library for the Health Sciences University of Iowa, Iowa City IA 52242 <eric-rumsey@uiowa.edu> 319-335-9875 (voice), 319-335-9897 (fax) From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Thu Jun 13 14:56:22 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: reference service names Message-ID: <199606131857.OAA12389@ohiolink.edu> The variety of responses to this post may be both varied and voluminous. Per the original poster's request, can responses be sent off-list? Thomas ("Not a Flame") Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu > > The reference email service at UCSB is called ASK. The address is > ask@library.ucsb.edu > > > > Please email your responses and (if there is interest) I will post a > > summary. From JFGREEN at CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU Thu Jun 13 14:53:32 1996 From: JFGREEN at CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Jim Green) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Digitized 35mm slides Message-ID: <9606131858.AA06760@library.berkeley.edu> I've been asked to research the feasibility of digitizing, cataloging, and providing WWW access to a large collection of 35mm slides. I seek libraries that have done something similar. I'm looking for sites to study as potential models. I also need information on digitizing hardware and software, cataloging/indexing methods and software used, and search/retrieval methods, including subject access to the collections. If anyone can shed any light on any piece of this I would appreciate it. Reply directly to me and I will summarize the responses to the list. Thanks! ****************************************************** * James F. Green * * Systems Librarian * * Wayne State University/DALNET Systems Office * * jfgreen@cms.cc.wayne.edu * * tel: (313) 577-6439 fax: (313) 577-8720 * ****************************************************** From gerryr at netins.net Thu Jun 13 16:15:17 1996 From: gerryr at netins.net (gr) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Commercial DBs over the 'net Message-ID: <199606132002.PAA01615@worf.netins.net> > > >The view from some Iowa reference librarians... > > the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) is still not really ready on the Net and >> it won't be until end of 96, early >>97. >>Federal Register is great on GPO, good search engine. >>You still have to sift alot if you've got a subject and don't >>have a date or page number but I guess that wouldn't be >>much easier in paper. >>There are still reasons to get paper FR as there is for every >>paper reference - more than one person can use it at a >>time which is not possible with an electronic format if you >>just have one workstation, etc. >> >> Personally I wouldn't drop the >>CFR until I saw the final online product. The last time I >>tried to use what they do have online for CFR a citation >>search was useless. > > >Gerry Rowland >Iowa > From KAMBITSCH at DAYTON.LIB.OH.US Thu Jun 13 16:14:46 1996 From: KAMBITSCH at DAYTON.LIB.OH.US (Tim Kambitsch) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 (32bit) and QVTnet 4.02 (32bit) Message-ID: <960613161446.1ba22@DAYTON.LIB.OH.US> Anyone have any luck getting Qvtnet 4.02 (term.exe) to work as the telnet application in Netscape 2.02 on a virgin Windows 95 system? I cannot get it to lauch properly from a URL. I can get Netscape to select other terminal emulators at their telenet application. I've tried out about 10 other terminal emulators in the last week or so. I can get Winqvt's 4.02 32bit emulator to work fine by launching it from outside of Netscape.. In fact I am using it right now to compose this message. Curiously, I get a file not found error message, EVEN if I use the "Browse" button within Netscape to set the preference. Just knowing that others have gotten this to work will help me. PS: Is there a way to get QVTnet 4.02 to disappear when a connection closes? Tim Kambitsch, Dayton and Montgomery County Public Library <kambitsch@dayton.lib.oh.us> <http://www.dayton.lib.oh.us/~kambitsch/> From gmf at metronet.lib.mi.us Thu Jun 13 16:34:34 1996 From: gmf at metronet.lib.mi.us (Gerald M. Furi) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Commercial DBs over the Net/Web In-Reply-To: <n1377445863.57081@library.lib.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606131640.A12618-0100000@metronet.lib.mi.us> Hello, all The July, 1996 issue of Databased Advisor (available at most large newstands) has an eight-page survey of "Web-enabled databases", beginning on page 62. It covers Sybase, oracle, Informix, Information Builders, Powersoft, Illustra and Micrsoft. It is focused on the idea of putting "dynamic data" on web pages. Cheers gmf * * Gerald M. Furi * * * * System Administrator, Metro Net Library Consortium, Inc. http://metronet.lib.mi.us/ Assistant Director, Farmington Community Library Voice: (810) 553-0303 Fax:(810) 553-3228 32737 West Twelve Mile Road Farmington Hills, MI 48334 * Open the pod door, Hal. * * * Often wrong, but never in doubt * * From engwall at uthscsa.edu Thu Jun 13 17:13:59 1996 From: engwall at uthscsa.edu (Keith Engwall) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 (32bit) and QVTnet 4.02 (32bit) Message-ID: <01BB5943.55008940@micro32.uthscsa.edu> The solution to this problem is as follows: Netscape has trouble finding the DLL files for QVTNet 4.0, which it needs to execute the Terminal session. Copy all the DLL files from .../QVTNet40/System to .../QVTNet40/Terminal. You may or may not need to copy all these files (I know some who only need to copy one of them), but we needed to copy all of them, so do that first and then experiment with which ones you don't need at your leisure (hey, they're small). ---------- From: Tim Kambitsch[SMTP:KAMBITSCH@DAYTON.LIB.OH.US] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 1996 3:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Netscape 2.02 (32bit) and QVTnet 4.02 (32bit) Anyone have any luck getting Qvtnet 4.02 (term.exe) to work as the telnet application in Netscape 2.02 on a virgin Windows 95 system? I cannot get it to lauch properly from a URL. I can get Netscape to select other terminal emulators at their telenet application. I've tried out about 10 other terminal emulators in the last week or so. I can get Winqvt's 4.02 32bit emulator to work fine by launching it from outside of Netscape.. In fact I am using it right now to compose this message. Curiously, I get a file not found error message, EVEN if I use the "Browse" button within Netscape to set the preference. Just knowing that others have gotten this to work will help me. PS: Is there a way to get QVTnet 4.02 to disappear when a connection closes? Tim Kambitsch, Dayton and Montgomery County Public Library <kambitsch@dayton.lib.oh.us> <http://www.dayton.lib.oh.us/~kambitsch/> From jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu Thu Jun 13 17:44:51 1996 From: jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Digitizing projects? Message-ID: <199606132144.QAA13346@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> Hi all, I know (or am sure) there are many digitizing projects going on. We are also doing one (I will let you know when it is presentable). I just want to learn more about what our colleagues are doing/have done. So if you have, know, or have done, one (converting a printed book or other materials to an eletronic format), could you please let me know? Some summary or a pointer to it would be also appreciated. Thanks and I'll summarize. Jian Indiana University Libraries From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Thu Jun 13 18:33:42 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Digitized 35mm slides Message-ID: <4B114625B47@gee.natlib.govt.nz> This is my reply to Jim Vivienne ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self <GEE/CUFFV> To: JFGREEN@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU Subject: Re: Digitized 35mm slides Reply-to: vivienne.cuff@natlib.govt.nz Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 09:29:03 +1200 Jim The National Library of New Zealand is doing a lot of work in this area. The person to talk to is Margaret Davidson [margaret.davidson@natlib.govt.nz]. However, Margaret is away until the end of June, however you could email David Adams who does all the digital imaging work here in the Library [david.adams@natlib.govt.nz] - he will be able to help with the technical stuff. The other starting place is the Tutorial on digital imaging which is available from the Getty Art History Information Program - http://www.ahip.getty.edu/intro_imaging/0-Cover2.html You may want to check out our Page on imaging - http://www.natlib.govt.nz/docher/imaging Very soon we are planning to make available images over the Web, initally a small sample but later in the year you will be able search for images, place them in a shopping basket etc. Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Thu Jun 13 18:26:41 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: Classifying Web Sites -Reply Message-ID: <s1c04159.094@bsu.idbsu.edu> Date: 06/13/1996 04:25 pm (Thursday) From: Dan Lester To: smtp("NDGMTLCD@gslis.lan.mcgill.ca") Subject: Re: Classifying Web Sites -Reply >>> Alain Vaillancourt <NDGMTLCD@gslis.lan.mcgill.ca> 06/05/96 03:24pm >>> Of course, the ideal would be to develop a true hierarchical classification system for web pages. Yahoo has the beginnings of such a system by its hierarchy, but it does not have the other essential components of a system (such as a notation sub-system) and of course, the basic elements of its hierarchy are severely flawed, ---------------------------- A couple of objections to the above. First, Yahoo! DOES have a notation system. It isn't a relatively concise notation system like Dewey, LC, or Ranganathan, but it IS a notation system. Also, I'm sure there is a "briefer notation" behind the visible notation system that is displayed at each level. I'm not particularly fond of the basics of Yahoo!'s hierarchy, but it is no worse than those of LC or Dewey. Each has its better and worse areas. And, even if a new and "ideal" system were developed, it would also be outdated in a few years or decades. Finally, one of the benefits of the Yahoo! system is the "interlinked" or "internested" nature of it. This gives some of the benefits of Ranganathan's faceted classification, and if nothing else gives multiple entry points to the same record when searching by hierarchy, something that does not exist in any book classification system widely used in the US. dan Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From chris at sparkie.osl.state.or.us Thu Jun 13 18:55:00 1996 From: chris at sparkie.osl.state.or.us (chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: protecting web servers from robots Message-ID: <199606132246.PAA16536@sparkie.osl.state.or.us> Can anyone provide information about how to protect web servers from the robots that roam the internet, such as Altavista, Lycos, etc. I have several Unix servers and a Mac server. I know that I have heard of a way to do this, but can't remember what it was. Christopher Adams Oregon State Library chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us From jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu Thu Jun 13 19:05:22 1996 From: jiliu at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Jian Liu) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: protecting web servers from robots In-Reply-To: <199606132246.PAA16536@sparkie.osl.state.or.us> from "chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us" at Jun 13, 96 03:54:42 pm Message-ID: <199606132305.SAA19083@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> Check the following: http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/projects/robots/norobots.html Jian Indiana University Libraries > > Can anyone provide information about how to protect web servers from the > robots that roam the internet, such as Altavista, Lycos, etc. I have several > Unix servers and a Mac server. I know that I have heard of a way to do > this, but can't remember what it was. > > Christopher Adams > Oregon State Library > chris@sparkie.osl.state.or.us > > From memort at netcom.com Fri Jun 14 01:05:23 1996 From: memort at netcom.com (Mary-Ellen Mort) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:48 2005 Subject: protecting web servers from robots In-Reply-To: <199606132246.PAA16536@sparkie.osl.state.or.us> Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606132138.A8912-0100000@netcom> I just finished reading Dr. Website's column in the June 3 edition of Web Week. He says you can create a file called robots.txt and place it at the root level of your server. He gives an example of how you can limit specific robots, or all robots, from certain sections of your server. Unfortunately I don't see this particular question in Dr. Website's column ont he Web Week site: http://www.webweek.com/drwebsite/index.html Dr. Website recommends WWW Robots FAQ at: http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/projects/robots/faq.html HTH, Mary-Ellen Mort, JobSmart Project Director http://jobsmart.org From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Sat Jun 15 14:20:44 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:49 2005 Subject: Best Latin1 matches for pronunciation symbols? Message-ID: <199606151818.OAA27198@ohiolink.edu> Greetings-- I'm drafting a cgi interface for our second dictionary, and I'm curious if anyone has good suggestions for approximating some of the traditional pronunciation symbols with the web's ISO Latin1 character set. Noticeably lacking are vowels with breves (short symbols) and macrons (long symbols). Thomas ("Unicode support is coming *when*?) Dowling tdowling@ohiolink.edu From kgs at bluehighways.com Sun Jun 16 20:53:13 1996 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:50 2005 Subject: losing ground Message-ID: <v01530511ade9bc8e9874@[204.97.113.30]> Two years ago I wrote a short piece for Library Journal, "The Old Guard and the New Technology," which echoes bits and pieces of most of the posts on this topic (LJ, 3/1/94). It didn't suggest Sara's good idea of introducing new technologies on a trial basis, but it emphasized a couple things my experience has since corroborated: the importance of staff training and the value of understanding how threatening rapid technological change can be. As others have pointed out, plunking computers in front of librarians is not a particularly effective means for introducing new technologies. Additionally, it can be frightening to find out that the skill set you have built your career on is of questionable applicability in the new environment. Quite a bit of the "challenges" you will get towards technological change may be related to the natural defenses that kick in when people feel devalued or worry that their careers are on the line. I've learned a couple more things since that LJ column. First, it can be dangerous when the librarians or other staff with high computer literacy inform their peers that the new tools are "easy" and will make their jobs better--particularly if there's no effort to get any real feedback. It's like telling a new patron that the OPAC is simple to use and then walking away--better to say, "this thing is clunky and has some odd quirks, and some folks find it really difficult, but this is how to get what you need out of it." Same thing with staff. Here's an example. We have one new tool, a Windows front end for some data. I personally find it the most mystifying software package I have used in ten years, and I have yet to be able to use it to answer a reference question, though when it was installed I was informed by the installer (a Unix programmer) that it was "easy" and "everyone" was using it. By calling around and emailing other folks, I know this is not the case, and I've spoken up on this. Understandably, not too many people are willing to say, "this is too hard"--though sometimes, it IS too hard,and libraries need to listen when folks say this, particularly if they aren't known for shying from new technologies. Throwaway comments such as "this is easy," even when well-intended, can be huge turn-offs to folks already feeling intimidated by our new environments. Another issue I'd address now, related to training, is whether the library is really providing the tools needed to make this happen. In one library, some time ago, I did a computer survey prior to applying for a grant, and I found that the ratio of computers to librarians was 1:7, while the ratio of computers to admin wonks was 1:1 or even better. Well, how are staff supposed to learn these skills if they do not have computers to practice on? (How do you learn to drive? In a car.) In another survey I found out that computers, when available, were located across the room from the refernce desks or in some cases in other rooms or buildings. It should come as no surprise that when this was true it was also true that librarians were less likely to use the Internet or other automated tools to do their jobs. In one library I'm familiar with, where the reference area was not designed by librarians, the librarian has to make the choice to "do without" electronic reference tools or to sit with her back to the public--and the furniture is bolted to the floor. The time to identify and correct shortfalls and problems such as these, it should go without saying, is BEFORE new technologies are introduced. Yes, that's sometimes not possible, but at least we should know what we need to correct. One of the other things I had to learn through experience is that some people are not going to learn, period, and in many cases there is no way we can make them do so. It's interesting that in our profession there are many instances where librarians get to choose what they will and will not learn--as if the bottom line were showing up and going through the motions, not providing public service. I liked the idea of identifying the top 15%, who will be the trainers' trainers with lots of energy, dedication and stamina, but given our profession, there will often be some people--maybe we can think of them as the other 15%--who we must route around. However, given the 3 Ts and an A in sufficient quantities (Time, Training, Tools and Attitude... something a colonel I admired taught me a long time ago), somehow, one way or the other, most of us, I believe, will get there. We must, so we will. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Karen G. Schneider * kgs@bluehighways.com Cybrarian * Columnist, American Libraries Author, The Internet Access Cookbook (e-mail Neal-Schuman@icm.com) These opinions strictly mine! From kgs at bluehighways.com Sun Jun 16 20:53:40 1996 From: kgs at bluehighways.com (Karen G. Schneider) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:50 2005 Subject: Volunteer Call for Internet Room at ALA Message-ID: <v01530513adea5852f4c7@[204.97.113.30]> [apologies for crossposting. forwarding authorized.] New York, New York--it's a wonderful town! And volunteering for the Internet Room is a GREAT way to commemorate your stay in New York for the American Library Association annual conference! Yes, once more LITA's Internet Room Steering Committee has the nerve--or should we say noive?--to ask for volunteers to staff the Internet Room. We're looking for conference attendees willing to commit one or two hours at a stretch during Exhibit hours to help users as they check email, surf the 'net, and inspect the latest and greatest Internet software. As usual, the benefits of volunteering for the Internet Room are generous. In addition to the opportunity to rub shoulders with the cognoscenti (many of whom eerily resemble other Internet-Room volunteers) you will get to wear a handsome, limited-edition Internet Room button. If that's not enough, we plan a lavish... well, filling dutch-treat Volunteer Dinner at the truly eclectic Bendix Diner in Chelsea, just a brisk half-mile walk from Javits Center through the scenic theater district. The requirements for volunteering in the Internet Room are simple. You tell us (soon as you can) which one or two-hour blocks you can work during the exhibit-hall schedule listed below. You agree to attend one of two orientation sessions (Friday 6 p.m. or Saturday 8:30 a.m.). You show up and do your thing. You don't have to be an Internet guru, though some Internet experience helps. That's it! We'll keep you posted with a Volunteer Schedule posted pre-conference at <http://www.bluehighways.com/vols.html>. Here's the 1996 Annual Conference exhibit-hall schedule. Sign up by emailing <kgs@bluehighways.com>. Looking forward to seeing you at the conference! Saturday 9-4 Sunday 9-5 Monday 9-5 Tuesday 9-1 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Karen G. Schneider * kgs@bluehighways.com Cybrarian * Columnist, American Libraries Author, The Internet Access Cookbook (e-mail Neal-Schuman@icm.com) These opinions strictly mine! From rhenning at fsc.follett.com Mon Jun 17 09:19:15 1996 From: rhenning at fsc.follett.com (Henning, Russell) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: free street maps Message-ID: <96Jun17.082115cdt.12678@fscmail.fsc.follett.com> On 6/14, Dr. James wrote: "Great for traveling or making a map to your house for visitors or etc." And since it's free, you must be careful. I asked for my home address and was given a location approximately three miles away. In the spirit of fairness, I tried several variations of the address (including the "South" abbreviation which, by the way, was deleted and ignored). Same result. "In the general vicinity" may be acceptable during thermonuclear disagreements, but not for a business appointment or interview. This website is cute, but I'll stick with Rand McNally for awhile. Russ rhenning@fsc.follett.com From hwhite at ccs.neu.edu Mon Jun 17 13:38:49 1996 From: hwhite at ccs.neu.edu (Howard White) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: losing ground In-Reply-To: <v01530511ade9bc8e9874@[204.97.113.30]> Message-ID: <v03007106adeb0809b246@[155.33.211.121]> Please understand that I'm not trying to be critical, but as a technical consultant, I can not say that it is possible to smooth the way for technology. I don't know of any institutions that can afford to train employees to the level required for most computer technology change. Every estimate I've ever seen on PC training puts the true costs well over $20,000 per user per system. As a class of users, even the highest paid executives rarely get even a small percentage of their skills and knowledge up dated as technology leaps forward. So how can the rest of the employees hope to receive the necessary training. Today's, computing technology is not a smooth flowing river for us to be trained to navigate. Today, computer technology is a hundred mile long class five rapid, through shear rock faced canyons. And most of us are in open canoes. >Two years ago I wrote a short piece for Library Journal, "The Old Guard and >the New Technology," which echoes bits and pieces of most of the posts on >this topic (LJ, 3/1/94). It didn't suggest Sara's good idea of introducing >new technologies on a trial basis, but it emphasized a couple things my >experience has since corroborated: the importance of staff training and the >value of understanding how threatening rapid technological change can be. >As others have pointed out, plunking computers in front of librarians is >not a particularly effective means for introducing new technologies. >Additionally, it can be frightening to find out that the skill set you have >built your career on is of questionable applicability in the new >environment. Quite a bit of the "challenges" you will get towards >technological change may be related to the natural defenses that kick in >when people feel devalued or worry that their careers are on the line. > >I've learned a couple more things since that LJ column. First, it can be >dangerous when the librarians or other staff with high computer literacy >inform their peers that the new tools are "easy" and will make their jobs >better--particularly if there's no effort to get any real feedback. It's >like telling a new patron that the OPAC is simple to use and then walking >away--better to say, "this thing is clunky and has some odd quirks, and >some folks find it really difficult, but this is how to get what you need >out of it." Same thing with staff. Here's an example. We have one new >tool, a Windows front end for some data. I personally find it the most >mystifying software package I have used in ten years, and I have yet to be >able to use it to answer a reference question, though when it was installed >I was informed by the installer (a Unix programmer) that it was "easy" and >"everyone" was using it. By calling around and emailing other folks, I >know this is not the case, and I've spoken up on this. Understandably, not >too many people are willing to say, "this is too hard"--though sometimes, >it IS too hard,and libraries need to listen when folks say this, >particularly if they aren't known for shying from new technologies. >Throwaway comments such as "this is easy," even when well-intended, can be >huge turn-offs to folks already feeling intimidated by our new >environments. > >Another issue I'd address now, related to training, is whether the library >is really providing the tools needed to make this happen. In one library, >some time ago, I did a computer survey prior to applying for a grant, and I >found that the ratio of computers to librarians was 1:7, while the ratio of >computers to admin wonks was 1:1 or even better. Well, how are staff >supposed to learn these skills if they do not have computers to practice >on? (How do you learn to drive? In a car.) In another survey I found out >that computers, when available, were located across the room from the >refernce desks or in some cases in other rooms or buildings. It should >come as no surprise that when this was true it was also true that >librarians were less likely to use the Internet or other automated tools to >do their jobs. In one library I'm familiar with, where the reference area >was not designed by librarians, the librarian has to make the choice to "do >without" electronic reference tools or to sit with her back to the >public--and the furniture is bolted to the floor. The time to identify and >correct shortfalls and problems such as these, it should go without saying, >is BEFORE new technologies are introduced. Yes, that's sometimes not >possible, but at least we should know what we need to correct. > >One of the other things I had to learn through experience is that some >people are not going to learn, period, and in many cases there is no way we >can make them do so. It's interesting that in our profession there are >many instances where librarians get to choose what they will and will not >learn--as if the bottom line were showing up and going through the motions, >not providing public service. e will be deleted > identifying the top 15%, >who will be the trainers' trainers with lots of energy, dedication and >stamina, but given our profession, there will often be some people--maybe >we can think of them as the other 15%--who we must route around. However, >given the 3 Ts and an A in sufficient quantities (Time, Training, Tools and >Attitude... something a colonel I admired taught me a long time ago), >somehow, one way or the other, most of us, I believe, will get there. We >must, so we will. > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Karen G. Schneider * kgs@bluehighways.com >Cybrarian * Columnist, American Libraries >Author, The Internet Access Cookbook (e-mail Neal-Schuman@icm.com) >These opinions strictly mine! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard White, PC Tech Coor., Northeastern University Please visit my web site for more information at http://155.33.211.90/ From jkuntz at mhv.net Mon Jun 17 16:47:11 1996 From: jkuntz at mhv.net (jkuntz@mhv.net) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs Message-ID: <Chameleon.960617135506.jkuntz@jerryk.warwick.net> For purposes having to do with the economics of supporting surfing behavior rather than an impulse to censor, we would like to know if there is any way possible to implement a LYNX server so that it can reach only URLs that we specify (500-2000, say?) and not follow other links from those sites. We know it is possible to disable the G (Go) command. Also, the documentation on Lynx indicates that the LYNX URL command can be given that will restrict access to the server of that URL only--but we haven't been able to see that command working. Any leads? Thanks, Jerry Kuntz Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@mhv.net ------------------------------------- E-mail: jkuntz@pop.mhv.net Date: 06/17/96 Time: 13:47:11 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- From DDDODD at aol.com Mon Jun 17 15:02:06 1996 From: DDDODD at aol.com (DDDODD@aol.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: How to unsubscirbe??? Message-ID: <960617150205_415951618@emout10.mail.aol.com> I have tried on 3 occasions to unsubscribe this list. My e-mail is not returned but I seem to keep getting the list. I have been sending e-mail to LISTPROC@library.berkeley.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE web4lib in the subject and the body of the e-mail. Any tips??? From nahl at hawaii.edu Mon Jun 17 15:28:47 1996 From: nahl at hawaii.edu (Diane Nahl) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: losing ground In-Reply-To: <v03007106adeb0809b246@[155.33.211.121]> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.93.960617091757.12551L-100000@uhunix3> A study I did of novices learning to search a fulltext database showed the same result that reference librarians and staff trainers observe routinely: training is never enough. In the study, after a 2.5 hour training session done by a prominent online educator, our 7 novices still had over 1,100 questions about how to do things on the system over the next 4-5 online sessions--routine things, things they had been taught. (FYI JASIS April 1996) Two factors are inherent in the online environment: 1. People need redundancy in training and training support in the first 5-10 hours of actual use of a new system (this may be less for staff familiar with online systems in general, but how much less isn't known). 2. technological change is so rapid that even experts will remain novices in most new systems they adopt. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Dr. Diane Nahl, Assistant Professor _/ From now _/ _/ School of Library and Information Studies _/ on we _/ _/ University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822 _/ are all _/ _/ http://www2.hawaii.edu/slis/nahl/nahl.html _/ lifelong _/ _/ voicemail: 808-956-5809 FAX: 808-956-5835 _/ novices. _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Mon Jun 17 16:04:39 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Front Page Message-ID: <s1c56628.015@bsu.idbsu.edu> Microsoft's new Front Page looks like it will be the greatest thing since the microwave if even half of its claims are valid and useful. Before I go out and plunk down my own $129 at CompUSA in a few hours, I'd appreciate any responses regarding how good, bad, useful, cost-effective, etc, it is. PROMPT and personal replies appreciated. Will summarize for the list. cheers cyclops Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Mon Jun 17 16:14:42 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply Message-ID: <s1c56879.018@bsu.idbsu.edu> >>> <jkuntz@mhv.net> 06/17/96 12:16pm >>> For purposes having to do with the economics of supporting surfing behavior rather than an impulse to censor, we would like to know if there is any way possible to implement a LYNX server so that it can reach only URLs that we specify (500-2000, say?) and not follow other links from those sites. --------------------------------- I have no idea, nor do I care, whether Lynx can be so configured. I do, however, suggest you rethink things a bit. First, if this is for public terminals, it seems inappropriate. I'm sure someone could still spend vast amounts of time at those locations you bless. If spending too much time there is the problem, solve the problem by limiting the time anyone can spend at a public station to 20 or 30 minutes, or whatever works for you. If the problem is with staff, once again you have a management problem, not a technology problem. If staff need access to information to do their jobs, there is just no way that you can be sure what they need is in ANY set of links. After all, hundreds or thousands of new sites are being established EVERY day, and you just can't keep up with them all on some sort of approved list. This is no different than the censors face in trying to keep a list of "bad places" (however defined) to keep kids or others out of. New ones come up just too quickly. Remember, you work in a library...and as I often remind folks here and elsewhere....if I wanted to have a distraction to keep me from my work, it doesn't take the internet....I have a half million books and 4000 journals at my disposal....from which I could find more that I want to "goof off with" for the rest of my life. (I'm 53,but it would undoubtedly be true for those half my age too) o-) cheers cyclops From DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU Mon Jun 17 16:19:25 1996 From: DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU (MARY A. DOYLE, SYSTEMS LIBRARIAN, ECSU) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Losing Ground Message-ID: <960617161925.20225f14@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU> This is one of the most important discussions I have seen on this list. I believe that our profession has adopted new technologies at the same rate as the rest of society. This is the good news. Should they have adopted it faster? Are they getting lost in the technological revolution? These are the "bad" questions. One of my roles is to implement technology. I think the most interesting issue is "passive aggressive" behavior. Any comments from list members in relation to this? From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Mon Jun 17 17:16:19 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Losing Ground -Reply Message-ID: <s1c576f3.053@bsu.idbsu.edu> >>> MARY A. DOYLE, SYSTEMS LIBRARIAN, ECSU <DOYLEM@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU> 06/17/96 02:36pm >>> This is one of the most important discussions I have seen on this list. I believe that our profession has adopted new technologies at the same rate as the rest of society. This is the good news. Should they have adopted it faster? Are they getting lost in the technological revolution? These are the "bad" questions. One of my roles is to implement technology. I think the most interesting issue is "passive aggressive" behavior. Any comments from list members in relation to this? ----------------------- I'm assuming you're referring to passive aggressive (PA) behavior on the part of staff members, colleagues, customers who don't want to use the new stuff. It has existed in libraries for the thirty years I've been doing library technological change, and will undoubtedly continue for as long as mankind is around (and just not in libraries, of course). Most of us know someone who doesn't have a TV, a microwave, an ATM card. For those who simply choose not to buy a new product, fine, that's their choice in a free economy. For those who have to work with an organization, however, their obstructionism can be a pain to the majority, but we have ways of applying our own pressure. When we moved to email for all within this library (before which about a third of us used other systems for internet email externally to the library), there were naturally a few who didn't want to play. That was dealt with fairly quickly as the library director saw the value immediately and soon ceased using paper for the vast majority of internal communications. Once the aginners realized they'd missed a meeting about staff raises or rearranging the service areas due to NOT reading their email where the meeting was announced, they learned that they'd better read it in self defense. There are a few who may still never have SENT a message, but that doesn't bother me. Sure, some folks still print out every set of meeting minutes and file them away in a drawer...but a lot of other sets are NOT being printed and filed, including mine. I know that the secretary has them organized on disk if I ever need to see them, and that we have them backed up off of the network for security (to say nothing of the filed paper copies in a half dozen desk drawers o-) ). After six years of implementing technology in THIS library some of the major aginners are now starting to complain that they need better and faster machines since "the web is so slow on my machine". (we distribute power machines to power users, clunkers to those who use them little) They are beginning to see the light at last. In a way this variation in rate of adoption helps us cope with limited resources. In other ways it makes training and support much more difficult, as no two computers of the 120 in the building are identical in either hardware or software...and some are on DOS, some Win3.11, some Win95. Some organizations can issue "thou shalt use...." edicts, but that isn't our style....we use a bit more of the carrot than the stick. Businesses do the same thing when they make it quicker and easier to give them a credit card than a check. Banks do it by charging for transactions at tellers instead of ATMs, or by giving credits for deposits made at ATMs (my bank does the latter, my wife's the former). There will always be Luddites, but the vast majority will keep up with the times at varying rates of speed, depending on their personal and economic need to do so. cheers cyclops Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Mon Jun 17 17:35:15 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply Message-ID: <199606172135.RAA09229@ohiolink.edu> The Sage of Boise wrote: > >>> <jkuntz@mhv.net> 06/17/96 12:16pm >>> > For purposes having to do with the economics > of supporting surfing behavior rather than an > impulse to censor, we would like to know if there is > any way possible to implement a LYNX server so > that it can reach only URLs that we specify > (500-2000, say?) and not follow other links from > those sites. > --------------------------------- > I have no idea, nor do I care, whether Lynx can be > so configured. I do, however, suggest you rethink > things a bit. I have to agree with Dan. Not only is such a move difficult to reconcile with most libraries' missions ("Here's a great information source--we're only letting you use a tiny fraction of it"), but will inevitably: Leave your front line librarians open to user wrath Turn into a sinkhole for the time and energy of your public systems support people Generate a user perception that your library is run by control freaks, technophobes and/or net.ignoramuses who Just Don't Get It (try doing Internet BI once that perception sets in) AND (last but not least) fail in its goal. I don't see this working. -- Thomas Dowling \ tdowling@ohiolink.edu Asst. Director, Client/Server Apps.\ 614/728-3600 x326 OhioLINK \ FAX 614/728-3610 From jkuntz at mhv.net Mon Jun 17 20:22:53 1996 From: jkuntz at mhv.net (jkuntz@mhv.net) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: FW: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply Message-ID: <Chameleon.960617173824.jkuntz@jerryk.warwick.net> This is for public terminals, in a situation where the library directors are dead set against wide open web access for fear that they will never have enough workstations. (In fact, they may be underconfigured now in terms of the number of regular PAC workstations!) I believe some of their fear is justified. They concede that access to a gopher server would be acceptable, since it is controllable. I tried to explain that being limited to a gopher server would ignore a wealth of resources on the web; and if surfing was a concern, maybe there would be a way to control that type of use. The idea of limiting people to a set amount of time seems to me to be an even more impractical solution. It's been tried in public libraries, and has resulted in fistfights. I'm open to any other constructive suggestions. Jerry Kuntz Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@mhv.net ---------------Original Message--------------- >>> <jkuntz@mhv.net> 06/17/96 12:16pm >>> For purposes having to do with the economics of supporting surfing behavior rather than an impulse to censor, we would like to know if there is any way possible to implement a LYNX server so that it can reach only URLs that we specify (500-2000, say?) and not follow other links from those sites. --------------------------------- I have no idea, nor do I care, whether Lynx can be so configured. I do, however, suggest you rethink things a bit. First, if this is for public terminals, it seems inappropriate. I'm sure someone could still spend vast amounts of time at those locations you bless. If spending too much time there is the problem, solve the problem by limiting the time anyone can spend at a public station to 20 or 30 minutes, or whatever works for you. If the problem is with staff, once again you have a management problem, not a technology problem. If staff need access to information to do their jobs, there is just no way that you can be sure what they need is in ANY set of links. After all, hundreds or thousands of new sites are being established EVERY day, and you just can't keep up with them all on some sort of approved list. This is no different than the censors face in trying to keep a list of "bad places" (however defined) to keep kids or others out of. New ones come up just too quickly. Remember, you work in a library...and as I often remind folks here and elsewhere....if I wanted to have a distraction to keep me from my work, it doesn't take the internet....I have a half million books and 4000 journals at my disposal....from which I could find more that I want to "goof off with" for the rest of my life. (I'm 53,but it would undoubtedly be true for those half my age too) o-) cheers cyclops ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- E-mail: jkuntz@pop.mhv.net Date: 06/17/96 Time: 17:22:53 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Mon Jun 17 18:17:04 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Losing Ground Message-ID: <510D06C5A6A@gee.natlib.govt.nz> I am following this discussion with interest, as this follows on from a post I sent to the list a few weeks - the gist of which was getting organizational buy-in for the work you are doing with new technology. IMHO, the old saying is leading horses to water...applies here. Maybe, remember Robert the Bruce and the Spider... Does anyone have specific techniques which they can share - particularly, novel ones once you have tried everything? One thing that I would like to explore is how you make people aware that the use of the Internet is a privilege - that whilst you have access to all this amazing information you have a responsibility to give back - by contributing to discussions and more particularly by, in an organization, by participating in the development of the Web Site(s)? I am debating putting this concept into our Acceptable Use Policy? Most policies talk about use (accessing/taking information) and may be they should include policy about the (contributing/giving) aspects also? Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Mon Jun 17 18:35:38 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: FW: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply -Reply Message-ID: <s1c58983.092@bsu.idbsu.edu> Well, I'm not a public library expert, but..... Sure, limiting time can have its own problems....as can any other method of controlling human behavior. No matter WHAT human behavior we try to control, there will always be someone who will resist the controls. That surely isn't unique to public libraries, as the folks in Montana learned, as those who get speeding tickets learn, etc. But, once again, I wonder if the library administration isn't once again Managing By Fear or Managing By Exception. Our managers here have expressed some of the same fears, but most of them have NOT come to pass. When the fears come to pass then we deal with them. For example, though we're a state university library, we're downtown near large numbers of homeless people, and we're a public building, required by law to be open to the public. When some of these folks cause trouble (and actually no more often than the students or facutly) we deal with it. But we do NOT make restrictive policies in advance. We have one area that has TV/VCR combos available with open shelf videos nearby. Most of their use is by students in film and education and business classes where they need to see videos. Some fo the street people started to come in and watch entertainment videos. Those who brought "liquid refreshment" with them were thrown out by the sheriff (who provides campus security by contract). The numbers increased...both street people and students who realized the recreational potential. Finally we did the same thing we do regarding circulation, limited usage of those machines to those with a valid ID card and that cut numbers enough to make it manageable. We have CDROM workstations and also Web workstations with "Please Limit Use to 20 Minutes If Others Are Waiting" signs on them. The peer pressure of someone standing around looking at their watch and tapping their foot anxiously is almost always enough to get the violator to leave quietly. I don't think a staff member has had to intervene more than once a year in the last four years. This includes those who are surfing for fun (we presume) as well as those who are working on an assignment or paper. Once in a while someone will want us to schedule usage...but we will not do that....that would be a LOT more work and hassle, and much more chance of altercation....though I'll admit that was considered when we first set up the stations some six years ago. What we do if there were an altercation? Exactly what I hope ANY librarian in ANY library would do. DIAL 911 and keep out of it. We're not in the business of being police officers, social workers, or anything else. We're information workers. Once again, way too many library managers manage by fear and exception....but I don't have a solution for that. Isn't there SOME way you can convince the higher ups that you either provide the service or you don't...that there isn't any reasonable middle ground? cyclops Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From E7L8CYZ at TOE.TOWSON.EDU Mon Jun 17 21:22:29 1996 From: E7L8CYZ at TOE.TOWSON.EDU (Mark Cyzyk) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: W3Launch Message-ID: <01I610O5T8O290SILL@TOE.TOWSON.EDU> Dear Web4Libbers: I am trying to use W3Launch to create a front-end menu that will run within Netscape 2.0 and am having a problem: I've set everything up per Peter Gorman's specs but it will not run. Within Netscape itself, I've created a mime type of application, a sub-type of x-w3l, and have set it so that when a .w3l file is encountered W3Launch boots. Attached below are the contents of the other files required. Could someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? When I click on the link in my HTML file that connects to the .w3l file, all I get are the contents of the .w3l file itself, not a bootup of W3Launch. Confused, Mark Cyzyk Albert S. Cook Library Towson State University /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Mark Cyzyk MCyzyk@midget.towson.edu http://www.towson.edu/~mcyzyk E7L8CYZ@toe.towson.edu /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals; I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants. ____________________________________________________________________ Here is the HTML file in my server's WWW directory: <html> <head> <title>Albert S. Cook Library Electronic Classroom

Welcome to the Albert S. Cook Library
Electronic Classroom

Below is the "census.w3l" file in my server's WWW directory. [Software] Title=Census Disk for MD, DE, DC Group=Govdocs System=MS DOS Originator= MajorVersion=-1 MinorVersion=-1 RejectOlder=No RejectNewer=No Here is my client's w3launch.ini file: [Groups] Count=1 Title=Govdocs File=c:\netapps\w3launch\govdocs.lst Finally, here is my client's govdocs.lst file: [Software] Count=1 Title=Census Disk for MD, DE, DC Originator= MajorVersion=-1 MinorVersion=-1 Command=c:\netapps\w3launch\apps\go.bat g: lan Path=c:\netapps\w3launch\apps From swhite at library.uwa.edu.au Mon Jun 17 20:38:25 1996 From: swhite at library.uwa.edu.au (Shane White) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: W3Launch Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960618003825.00693ab4@docker.library.uwa.edu.au> Mark, I'm no expert, but we had to our web server software to accept the new MIME type before we could get our w3launch software to work. Shane At 05:27 pm 17/06/96 -0700, Mark Cyzyk wrote: > > >Dear Web4Libbers: > >I am trying to use W3Launch to create a front-end menu that will run >within Netscape 2.0 and am having a problem: I've set everything up per >Peter Gorman's specs but it will not run. Within Netscape itself, I've >created a mime type of application, a sub-type of x-w3l, and have set it >so that when a .w3l file is encountered W3Launch boots. Attached below >are the contents of the other files required. Could someone please tell >me what I'm doing wrong? When I click on the link in my HTML file that >connects to the .w3l file, all I get are the contents of the .w3l file >itself, not a bootup of W3Launch. > >Confused, > >Mark Cyzyk >Albert S. Cook Library >Towson State University >/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >Mark Cyzyk MCyzyk@midget.towson.edu >http://www.towson.edu/~mcyzyk E7L8CYZ@toe.towson.edu >/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals; > I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants. > I like cats but I couldn't eat a whole one ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shane White Phone 61 9 380 2347 Cataloguer (et cetera) Fax 61 9 380 1012 Library, University of Western Australia swhite@library.uwa.edu.au From BENNETT at rmcnet.robert-morris.edu Mon Jun 17 12:53:00 1996 From: BENNETT at rmcnet.robert-morris.edu (Bennett, David) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Web Authoring Tools Message-ID: <9606180050.AA02438@library.berkeley.edu> >From: Shonna Froebel >Subject: Web Authoring Tools >I have been asked to compile a "complete" list of web authoring tools. >Does anyone have any suggestions, or has anyone already done this? >(Windows based tools are what I'm looking for) I suggest that you start by looking at the FULL REVIEWS section for HTML editors in Stroud's List of Consummate Winsock Applications. Here is the URL: http://www.cwsapps.com//shtml.html#htmlwrtr There are mirror sites distributed across the Web, so I would recommend you use a search engine to find the closest site for you. Here is a URL for the site I often use: http://www.cwsapps.com//cwsa.html There is an amazing amount of information in Stroud's, including FULL REVIEW, DESCRIPTION, RATING, STATUS (shareware or freeware, beta, etc.), COMPANY, NOTES, SIZE, DATE, and VERSION. The site is highly organized, and reliable. There is a wealth of information on all kinds of Winsock applications...servers, clients, utilities, etc. I hope this is of some help. ****************************************************** David Bennett (bennett@rmcnet.robert-morris.edu) Systems Support & Instruction Librarian Robert Morris College Library Narrows Run Road Coraopolis, PA 15108 (412) 262-8474 (412) 262-4049 fax ****************************************************** From potsie at alumni.sils.umich.edu Mon Jun 17 21:00:57 1996 From: potsie at alumni.sils.umich.edu (Christopher A. Poterala) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: W3Launch In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960618003825.00693ab4@docker.library.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: Mark, I'll second the fact of needing to configure your web server to handle the new MIME type. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Christopher A. Poterala | Network Services Librarian | Email: potsie@umich.edu Library Systems Office | Voice: (313) 764-5124 2026 Shapiro Library | Fax: (313) 764-2025 University of Michigan | "Who's on first?" On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Shane White wrote: > Mark, > I'm no expert, but we had to our web server software to accept the new MIME > type before we could get our w3launch software to work. > > Shane > From habluetzel at stub.unibe.ch Tue Jun 18 02:18:56 1996 From: habluetzel at stub.unibe.ch (Caroline Habluetzel) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:51 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply -Reply Message-ID: <9606180620.AA26079@library.berkeley.edu> Just a general thought: The more restrictions you have on your computers the more some people seem to be provoked by these restrictions. And a time limit of 30 minutes is far enough to tinker at someones machine. We catched a patron installing a zip-drive on one of our public computers... and we're not cops. Since then we are thinking about opening the machines again. --------------------------------------------------- caroline habluetzel stadt- und universitaetsbibliothek bern muenstergasse 61 ch-3000 bern 7 switzerland tel. +41 +31 320 32 07, fax +41 +31 320 32 99 e-mail habluetzel@stub.unibe.ch --------------------------------------------------- From bibl at oil.freenet.kiev.ua Tue Jun 18 02:27:41 1996 From: bibl at oil.freenet.kiev.ua (BIBL) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: How to convert Mac file to IBM PC format Message-ID: Dear colleagues, We have a problem with such a file. (Macintosh format) Please, explain me what application creates files like this. Have anyone software for transformation this file to readable IBM PC format. %!PS-Adobe-2.0 %%Title: IFIPAT %%Creator: PrintMonitor %%CreationDate: Friday, January 28, 1994 %%Pages: (atend) %%BoundingBox: ? ? ? ? %%PageBoundingBox: 75 35 2475 3265 %%For: %%DocumentProcSets: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 %% J Copyright Apple Computer, Inc. 1989-91 All Rights Reserved. %%EndComments %%BeginProcSet: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 ::::::::: text and numerical information ::::::::: Thanks, Oleg Mityukhin bibl@oil.freenet.kiev.ua From SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Tue Jun 18 08:36:23 1996 From: SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV (KAREN SCHNEIDER) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply -Reply Message-ID: Thomas Dowling stated one objection to limiting lynx--that it would: Generate a user perception that your library is run by control freaks, technophobes and/or net.ignoramuses who Just Don't Get It (try doing Internet BI once that perception sets in) Michael Schuyler argued eloquently on this point not too long ago in Computers in Libraries, pointing out that too often we librarians are seen as standing in the way of access. If time limits at computers result in fist fights--then have the combatants removed from the library. Where are the patron behavior policies? It's also possible to dedicate computers to specific tasks, even if they are "supposed" to be multitasking, and use geographic location, stanchions and signs to create methods of allocation and control. Good old salespersonship doesn't hurt, either. "Gosh, we want to give you the world--but we can give you 30 minutes on this terrific computer!" goes a long way. We have drive locks on our a: drives (in part because the computers are not in our line of vision, due to a wall that really needs to come down) and do we say "we're doing this because we have caught people trying to format the c: drive?" No, we say, "we're worried that you'll get a virus on your home computer--have a FREE, clean, formatted diskette!" The best PR a dime can buy (and ever so environmentally correct). Anyway, as Thomas the Dowling put it more or less, you only have so much time in the day. How will you spend it? Finding ways to reduce or limit access to information? Or finding ways to connect folks to what they seek? Take a look at this month's DLib magazine, --many exciting, user-oriented projects, not one related to restricting or denying access. Where are *your* priorities? Karen G. "I Just Had My Coffee" Schneider schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov opinions mine alone From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Tue Jun 18 08:59:36 1996 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: W3Launch Message-ID: Mark Cyzyk writes: >Could someone please tell >me what I'm doing wrong? When I click on the link in my HTML file that >connects to the .w3l file, all I get are the contents of the .w3l file >itself, not a bootup of W3Launch. I apologize for going to the list to add my opinion that the server has probably not been configured to send .w3l files with the new MIME type. The best way to diagnose this is to put the .w3l file on a local drive and use the browser's "Open File" to view it. Most browsers will use the MIME type mapping as supplied by the preferences to decide what to do with the file. In fact, that's usually the only time they use the suffix mapping you've set in the application - when the server doesn't supply one. For locally-opened files, there is no server, so the browser uses the suffix. Almost all HTTP servers will send a default MIME type (typically text/plain) for any file they don't recognize. The browser thinks it can handle text/plain, so you get the file on the screen. After all that, I hope that's the answer to Mark's problem! The W3Launch config files looked OK to me. PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman Automation Help Desk Memorial Library University of Wisconsin pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu From WEISSMAN at main.morris.org Tue Jun 18 09:31:56 1996 From: WEISSMAN at main.morris.org (Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: losing ground Message-ID: <960618093156.20210c35@main.morris.org> As I've mentioned to a few of you privately ..you might want to look at http://www.gti.net/mocolib1/morenet.html Summary of our three years using Internet with 400,000 patrons and over 100 (often unwilling) librarians ... From sg94548n at dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu Tue Jun 18 09:34:27 1996 From: sg94548n at dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Theodore Morris) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: free street maps Message-ID: <199606181334.JAA14762@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/attachments/19960618/3bcceedf/attachment.bat From ace at Opus1.COM Tue Jun 18 09:45:57 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <01I61MK3DF828WW79L@Opus1.COM> I wonder if you can take time to tell me about the problem with zip drives? Are there problems involved here beyond the fact that someone was doing something they shouldn't have been to library property? (I can imagine this scenario and it makes me sort of chuckle at how it must have been for all parties involved! That was one confident computer user:))) I hadn't thought about using them on the general access library computers (maybe one station?) It occurrs to me that it might be a good idea. A zip drive was donated to a class I took last semester and we could take it out of the cupboard, hook it up to one of the lab computers and copy needed files onto personal zip disks. It was very convenient. They cost about $500 and coming down, maybe the cost wouldn't be justified for the amount of use? Maybe more suitable for special libraries or research libraries? Maybe it's already being done in places? Any comments on the suitability of providing this as an aid to patrons? Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com serendipity RULES! > 11:25 PM 6/17/96 -0700, Caroline Habluetzel wrote: >enough to tinker at someones machine. We catched a patron installing a >zip-drive on one of our public computers... > >--------------------------------------------------- > caroline habluetzel > stadt- und universitaetsbibliothek bern > muenstergasse 61 > ch-3000 bern 7 switzerland > tel. +41 +31 320 32 07, fax +41 +31 320 32 99 > e-mail habluetzel@stub.unibe.ch >--------------------------------------------------- > > From pourel at iastate.edu Tue Jun 18 09:50:16 1996 From: pourel at iastate.edu (I. Pour-El) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Names for reference desk, etc. Message-ID: <9606181350.AA28161@pv0b02.vincent.iastate.edu> Hey, all you people in other countries, so far I have gotten only one non-English speaking response (although lots of US terms). Please... Here are the questions again: 1. What does the sign over (or on or under) your reference desk say? Please add a literal translation if a language other than English. 2. Is the same term used in written and spoken communication? 3. What do you call your electronic reference service e.g. "Ask a librarian". I don't mean opacs or databases but individual reference question submission and/or response by form or email. As always, I will summarize all responses to the list. Thanks, --- I. Pour-El pourel@iastate.edu Reference and Instructional Services Librarian 515-294-1004 152 Parks Library Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011 From kiratoy at panix.com Tue Jun 18 10:09:58 1996 From: kiratoy at panix.com (Shawn J.P. West (BlackSheep)) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: How to convert Mac file to IBM PC format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This looks like a standard postscript prologue to me all you can do is downoad the thing to a postscript printer. or maybe open the file in ghost script to view it On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, BIBL wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > > We have a problem with such a file. (Macintosh format) > Please, explain me what application creates files like this. > Have anyone software for transformation this file to > readable IBM PC format. > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 > %%Title: IFIPAT > %%Creator: PrintMonitor > %%CreationDate: Friday, January 28, 1994 > %%Pages: (atend) > %%BoundingBox: ? ? ? ? > %%PageBoundingBox: 75 35 2475 3265 > %%For: > %%DocumentProcSets: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 > %% J Copyright Apple Computer, Inc. 1989-91 All Rights Reserved. > %%EndComments > %%BeginProcSet: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 > ::::::::: > > text and numerical information > > ::::::::: > > > Thanks, > > Oleg Mityukhin > > bibl@oil.freenet.kiev.ua > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ mail me find me kiratoy@panix.com http://kiratoy.com kiratoy@groundzero.com http://groundzero.com "A body at rest gets killed. A body in motion has a chance." -sjpw 5.27.96 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From BLIPS15 at BROWNVM.brown.edu Tue Jun 18 10:15:29 1996 From: BLIPS15 at BROWNVM.brown.edu (Howard Pasternack) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: windows and the public Message-ID: <9606181423.AA30599@library.berkeley.edu> I guess I am confused about what the Innopac issue mentioned below is. Innopacs running on Unix machines are reasonably secure. Telnet access is available to most of them. The Innopac becomes unsecure only when one has a userid and password as a Unix system administrator. And icons on windows machines for use by either the public or staff should not be doing automatic logons as Unix administrators. Howard Pasternack Brown University >Posted on 7 Jun 1996 at 07:57:52 by Elvio Pederzolli > >windows and the public > >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 04:54:57 -0700 >Reply-To: elviop@ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au >From: Elvio Pederzolli > >dHi There > > >We are about to provide our library users a new integrated way of using >resources on our novell network. They will be able to access our cdrom network >(about 20 cdroms in all), ERL databases on our ERL server and of course access >to our INNOPAC library system. They will be able to do this from clicking on >icons from a window on their windows 3.22 desktop. > >We can implement the usual low level security options in windows eg stop them >deleting icons, stopping the file run option and preventing them from closing >down windows. > >However, if they minimize that main window or use the alt tab key stokes they >will be able to see the icons for the undepinning programes that are running >in the background - these programs drive our socket connections to our file >severs and allow telnet acces to our UNIX machine that runs our INNOPAC >software. They can then maliciously or accidently stop these programmes from >running. This means that important parts of the network are disabled and >require intervention from our hard pressed computer help desk staff. > >Has anyone experienced this problem ? Is there a way of locking users into a >main window, of stopping the use of the alt tab keys so that all >users get to see is the main window. > >We have built our network on the principle that users should be able to access >all imformation resources from the one place and we would not like to change >this. > >Any help would be much appreciated. > > >Regards Elvio Pederzooli > >State Library of South Australia > >*********************************************************************** > * * >Elvio Pederzolli * Tel (voice) 08-2077603 * >State Library Of South Australia * (internt) 61-8-2077603 * >GPO Box 419, Adelaide * fax 08-2077622 * >South Australia. 5001 * (internt) 61-8-2077622 * > * > E-mail elviop@ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au * > * >*********************************************************************** From morganj at indyunix.iupui.edu Tue Jun 18 10:51:14 1996 From: morganj at indyunix.iupui.edu (morganj@indyunix.iupui.edu) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: zip drive In-Reply-To: <01I61MK3DF828WW79L@Opus1.COM> Message-ID: This is an interesting idea. We've been selling floppy disks for a long time to encourage downloading; perhaps it's time to graduate to zip disks. The Iomega zip drive and it's competitors have been around $200 since last year, and the 100mb disks are around $20. But perhaps if your users are doing that much downloading, you need to provide outside network connections so they can do it from their office. One problem of providing the drives is compatibility. While Iomega is the market leader, I have no idea if it is very dominent, and each maker has it's own technology (the disks range from 100 mb. on up in size, depending on the maker). Jim Morgan morganj@indyunix.iupui.edu On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Elisabeth Roche wrote: > I wonder if you can take time to tell me about the problem with zip drives? > > Are there problems involved here beyond the fact that someone was doing > something they shouldn't have been to library property? (I can imagine this > scenario and it makes me sort of chuckle at how it must have been for all > parties involved! That was one confident computer user:))) > > I hadn't thought about using them on the general access library computers > (maybe one station?) It occurrs to me that it might be a good idea. > > A zip drive was donated to a class I took last semester and we could take it > out of the cupboard, hook it up to one of the lab computers and copy needed > files onto personal zip disks. It was very convenient. > > They cost about $500 and coming down, maybe the cost wouldn't be justified > for the amount of use? Maybe more suitable for special libraries or research > libraries? > Maybe it's already being done in places? > > Any comments on the suitability of providing this as an aid to patrons? > > > Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com > serendipity RULES! > > > 11:25 PM 6/17/96 -0700, Caroline Habluetzel wrote: > > >enough to tinker at someones machine. We catched a patron installing a > >zip-drive on one of our public computers... > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > > caroline habluetzel > > stadt- und universitaetsbibliothek bern > > muenstergasse 61 > > ch-3000 bern 7 switzerland > > tel. +41 +31 320 32 07, fax +41 +31 320 32 99 > > e-mail habluetzel@stub.unibe.ch > >--------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From aabrams at american.edu Tue Jun 18 11:06:35 1996 From: aabrams at american.edu (Alicia Abramson) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Monitoring/limiting of Web Usage Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960618150635.0a6752fe@novell.library.american.edu> I am wondering how many libraries are doing this, or thinking of doing this. I've seen some product announcements and brief articles about how this is being implemented more and more in corporations particularly as a way to reduce the waste of time that websurfing can often lead to. I'm also interested in what libraries' policies are for internet computing in general, such as use of e-mail, ftp-ing etc. I am thinking of policies that include professional librarians and non-librarian staff in the library setting. One question in particular I'm curious about is whether a case could be made that this somehow infringes on academic freedom, in academic settings. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- | Alicia Abramson | * Head, Library Systems * | American University | * (202) 885-3228 * | aabrams@american.edu | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- From jkuntz at mhv.net Tue Jun 18 13:37:46 1996 From: jkuntz at mhv.net (jkuntz@mhv.net) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Limiting Lynx to specific URLs -Reply -Reply Message-ID: First, I really appreciate the responses I've been getting to the dilemma outlined in earlier messages: i.e. introducing web access in a situation where there can be minimal increase in the number of workstations over what already exists. Allow me to just give one more piece of background information, then offer what may be a compromise that will satisfy the library directors I'm working with. Many of the libraries currently have PPP accounts through one workstation, but for on-demand access over multiple workstations, they really need to be using networks, routers and dedicated lines. We already have those in place for our automated system (Dynix), but the bandwidth of the lines is limited and the vast majority of workstations are dumb terminals. Hence the need for Lynx, and the need to multitask the terminals to do both Internet access and PAC functions. Dynix's PAC software (the character-based version) is structured so that we can not offer options on some PACs but not on others, without paying for a second PAC account. That idea, i.e. a second PAC account, may offer a potential solution. Because then we could devote some workstations just to PAC and give other workstations the option of PAC and LYNX, and it would be within the control of each library to adjust what every terminal can deliver, and they could change that configuration just by logging the terminals on and off to the different accounts! Jerry Kuntz Ramapo Catskill Library System jkuntz@mhv.net ---------------Original Message--------------- Thomas Dowling stated one objection to limiting lynx--that it would: Generate a user perception that your library is run by control freaks, technophobes and/or net.ignoramuses who Just Don't Get It (try doing Internet BI once that perception sets in) Michael Schuyler argued eloquently on this point not too long ago in Computers in Libraries, pointing out that too often we librarians are seen as standing in the way of access. If time limits at computers result in fist fights--then have the combatants removed from the library. Where are the patron behavior policies? It's also possible to dedicate computers to specific tasks, even if they are "supposed" to be multitasking, and use geographic location, stanchions and signs to create methods of allocation and control. Good old salespersonship doesn't hurt, either. "Gosh, we want to give you the world--but we can give you 30 minutes on this terrific computer!" goes a long way. We have drive locks on our a: drives (in part because the computers are not in our line of vision, due to a wall that really needs to come down) and do we say "we're doing this because we have caught people trying to format the c: drive?" No, we say, "we're worried that you'll get a virus on your home computer--have a FREE, clean, formatted diskette!" The best PR a dime can buy (and ever so environmentally correct). Anyway, as Thomas the Dowling put it more or less, you only have so much time in the day. How will you spend it? Finding ways to reduce or limit access to information? Or finding ways to connect folks to what they seek? Take a look at this month's DLib magazine, --many exciting, user-oriented projects, not one related to restricting or denying access. Where are *your* priorities? Karen G. "I Just Had My Coffee" Schneider schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov opinions mine alone ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- E-mail: jkuntz@pop.mhv.net Date: 06/18/96 Time: 10:37:46 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- From pmf at unitec.mx Tue Jun 18 12:21:23 1996 From: pmf at unitec.mx (Patricia Mu\qoz Figueroa) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Error Condition Re: Electronic Library References: <31BCAE68.394C@unitec.mx> Message-ID: <31C6D783.6FCC@unitec.mx> web4lib@library.berkeley.edu I asked you unsubscribe me, but I still receive messages (I am not sure if you even read my messages) wrote: > > pmf@unitec.mx: You are not subscribed to web4lib@library.berkeley.edu. > Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe, > send mail to listproc@library.berkeley.edu with the following request: > > subscribe WEB4LIB Your Name > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi! > > This is Patricia Munoz from UNITEC (In Mexico City -America-), sorry if > my english is not good enough. > > I am looking for information about electronic libraries, could you > please help me? > > Do you have books published on electronic format? > > Are these books available on web? > > What is the procedure you are using to obtain books in electronic > format? > > Do you have references about another institutions, working with > electronic books? > > Thanks in advance and regards > > Pati > > -- > Lic. Patricia Muqoz > Planeacisn y Desarrollo > > UNITEC campus Marina Nacional > (Universidad Tecnolsgica de Mixico) > Av. Marina Nacional 162 > Col. Anahuac > Delegacisn Miguel Hidalgo > Mixico, D.F. C.P. 11320 > > Tel. 399-2000 ext. 1137 > Fax 328-7995 -- Lic. Patricia Muqoz Planeacisn y Desarrollo UNITEC campus Marina Nacional (Universidad Tecnolsgica de Mixico) Av. Marina Nacional 162 Col. Anahuac Delegacisn Miguel Hidalgo Mixico, D.F. C.P. 11320 Tel. 399-2000 ext. 1137 Fax 328-7995 From haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU Mon Jun 17 21:36:47 1996 From: haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU (Michael Haseltine) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960618013647.006aedb0@ag.arizona.edu> I'm not sure why I didn't get the original message this is a response to, so my response isn't to that, it's to the $500 price on zip drives. At least the 100MB model has been available since day one for $200. At 07:37 AM 6/18/96 -0700, you wrote: >I wonder if you can take time to tell me about the problem with zip drives? > >Are there problems involved here beyond the fact that someone was doing >something they shouldn't have been to library property? (I can imagine this >scenario and it makes me sort of chuckle at how it must have been for all >parties involved! That was one confident computer user:))) > >I hadn't thought about using them on the general access library computers >(maybe one station?) It occurrs to me that it might be a good idea. > >A zip drive was donated to a class I took last semester and we could take it >out of the cupboard, hook it up to one of the lab computers and copy needed >files onto personal zip disks. It was very convenient. > >They cost about $500 and coming down, maybe the cost wouldn't be justified >for the amount of use? Maybe more suitable for special libraries or research >libraries? >Maybe it's already being done in places? > >Any comments on the suitability of providing this as an aid to patrons? > > >Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com >serendipity RULES! > >> 11:25 PM 6/17/96 -0700, Caroline Habluetzel wrote: > >>enough to tinker at someones machine. We catched a patron installing a >>zip-drive on one of our public computers... >> >>--------------------------------------------------- >> caroline habluetzel >> stadt- und universitaetsbibliothek bern >> muenstergasse 61 >> ch-3000 bern 7 switzerland >> tel. +41 +31 320 32 07, fax +41 +31 320 32 99 >> e-mail habluetzel@stub.unibe.ch >>--------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Haseltine -- Arid Lands Information Center, University of Arizona haseltin@ag.arizona.edu From DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU Tue Jun 18 11:40:48 1996 From: DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU (MARY A. DOYLE, SYSTEMS LIBRARIAN, ECSU) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Losing Ground Message-ID: <960618114048.20238aa4@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU> What If??????? Libraries set a minimum expertise level for all library staff (professional librarians, administrators,etc.). They could then focus $$$$ and energy on ensuring that all attain that level. It could include: 1. Internet Research Using Graphical and Text Based Browsers 2. Basic HTML Capabilities 3. Basic Windows and Dos Capabilities 4. Clear Understanding of the EMail Package Used by the Institution 5. Basic Understanding of WWW Search Tools and Other Search Engines The list might go on..... From jjregel at ocean.st.usm.edu Tue Jun 18 12:17:46 1996 From: jjregel at ocean.st.usm.edu (Jennifer Jo Regel) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:53 2005 Subject: Internet Library Association Message-ID: Dear Web4lib members, The Internet Library Association (ILA) was created to educate, support, and inform particularly librarians, but others as well, about the Internet. The ILA is a web-based organization which is still in the developmental stages. Included on the web page are links to other technology-related organizations, Internet news, and "how to" links. The page is in continuous change and is regularly updated. All ideas for improvement and growth of the ILA are welcome and encouraged. We hope for you to all join the ILA and become active participants in making librarians and libraries an important part of the Internet. The address of the ILA is: http://www.usm.edu/~jjregel/ila Sincerely, Jennifer Regel **************************************************** jjregel@ocean.st.usm.edu University of Southern Mississippi, Computing Center From engwall at uthscsa.edu Tue Jun 18 12:32:53 1996 From: engwall at uthscsa.edu (Keith Engwall) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <01BB5D09.E4660280@micro32.uthscsa.edu> I'd definitely wait until the market determines the winner. Right now, Iomega has a *hefty* lead. Their presence at COMDEX was *HUGE*, while there was nary a sign of a competitor. I'd put my money on Iomega, simply because they did it simple and easy, and did it a year ago. They've got a massive head start. However, the biggest potential threat I've seen so far has been 3M. They've got a drive that reads both their proprietary 120 MB cartridges *and* current floppies. That's a better solution in my opinion, and is the sort of backwards compatability that could topple Iomega. However, they'd also have to make it as easy to install and use as Iomega, and making it as portable as Iomega would also be nice, though not quite as critical (since it would effectively replace the internal floppy drive). Plus, they'd have to get an awful lot of quick acceptance into the market to make up for Iomega's lead. That's the bottom line. Whoever has the most people using the equipment will win, regardless of quality. Remember Betamax? Still, it's too soon to tell... I'd say whichever one ships with the most systems this Christmas will be the winner. But, hey, at $200 a pop, pick up a couple and if you're wrong, you've got a great portable drive that will make updating and backing up remote systems a snap. Keith ****** Keith Engwall Systems Librarian Briscoe Library UTHSCSA engwall@uthscsa.edu ****** ---------- From: morganj@indyunix.iupui.edu[SMTP:morganj@indyunix.iupui.edu] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 10:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: zip drive This is an interesting idea. We've been selling floppy disks for a long time to encourage downloading; perhaps it's time to graduate to zip disks. The Iomega zip drive and it's competitors have been around $200 since last year, and the 100mb disks are around $20. But perhaps if your users are doing that much downloading, you need to provide outside network connections so they can do it from their office. One problem of providing the drives is compatibility. While Iomega is the market leader, I have no idea if it is very dominent, and each maker has it's own technology (the disks range from 100 mb. on up in size, depending on the maker). Jim Morgan morganj@indyunix.iupui.edu On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Elisabeth Roche wrote: > I wonder if you can take time to tell me about the problem with zip drives? > > Are there problems involved here beyond the fact that someone was doing > something they shouldn't have been to library property? (I can imagine this > scenario and it makes me sort of chuckle at how it must have been for all > parties involved! That was one confident computer user:))) > > I hadn't thought about using them on the general access library computers > (maybe one station?) It occurrs to me that it might be a good idea. > > A zip drive was donated to a class I took last semester and we could take it > out of the cupboard, hook it up to one of the lab computers and copy needed > files onto personal zip disks. It was very convenient. > > They cost about $500 and coming down, maybe the cost wouldn't be justified > for the amount of use? Maybe more suitable for special libraries or research > libraries? > Maybe it's already being done in places? > > Any comments on the suitability of providing this as an aid to patrons? > > > Elisabeth Roche ace@opus1.com > serendipity RULES! > > > 11:25 PM 6/17/96 -0700, Caroline Habluetzel wrote: > > >enough to tinker at someones machine. We catched a patron installing a > >zip-drive on one of our public computers... > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > > caroline habluetzel > > stadt- und universitaetsbibliothek bern > > muenstergasse 61 > > ch-3000 bern 7 switzerland > > tel. +41 +31 320 32 07, fax +41 +31 320 32 99 > > e-mail habluetzel@stub.unibe.ch > >--------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Tue Jun 18 13:23:08 1996 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: How to convert Mac file to IBM PC format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a Postscript file. It doesn't matter what platform it came from, or what platform you are wanting to use it on. What matters is that you have access to either a Postscript-capable printer (many Hewlett Packard Laserjet models and all Apple Laserwriter models) or an Adobe Acrobat distiller. For instructions on how to print this file from DOS, Windows, and Mac, go to: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Tools/postscript.html Roy Tennant On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, BIBL wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > > We have a problem with such a file. (Macintosh format) > Please, explain me what application creates files like this. > Have anyone software for transformation this file to > readable IBM PC format. > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 > %%Title: IFIPAT > %%Creator: PrintMonitor > %%CreationDate: Friday, January 28, 1994 > %%Pages: (atend) > %%BoundingBox: ? ? ? ? > %%PageBoundingBox: 75 35 2475 3265 > %%For: > %%DocumentProcSets: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 > %% J Copyright Apple Computer, Inc. 1989-91 All Rights Reserved. > %%EndComments > %%BeginProcSet: "(AppleDict md)" 71 0 > ::::::::: > > text and numerical information > > ::::::::: > > > Thanks, > > Oleg Mityukhin > > bibl@oil.freenet.kiev.ua > > > > > > From SLEETER at main.morris.org Tue Jun 18 14:15:08 1996 From: SLEETER at main.morris.org (Ellen Sleeter, M.A.I.N. Administrator) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: money on IOMEGA ... Indeed! Message-ID: <960618141508.2020e91e@main.morris.org> Iomega: If you're playing the technology stocks, and watching Wall$treet Week, then you know that the investors are *also* putting their money on Iomega. However, I venture to say that most of you are unaware that Iomega has been in the removable stprage media business since 1983... when they had wonderful 40MB removable cartridges (ca. 7x10") As a corporate MIS manager, responsible for replacing mini-computers with the first IBM PCs in the 25 US offices of an international management consulting firm, I was a relatively early adopter of this technology. So --- Iomega's claim to fame is *not* merely that they've had a Zip drive for a year. Iomega is to removable media as HP is to PC-driven laser printing .... IMHO +==========================================================================+ | ELLEN L. SLEETER | | Network Administrator/Division Head, County of Morris, New Jersey | | Morris Automated Information Network (M.A.I.N.) | +==========================================================================+ | Voice: 201-989-6112 Fax: 201-989-6109 | | Email: sleeter@main.morris.org Other: esleeter@pluto.njcc.com | | HomePage: http://pluto.njcc.com/~esleeter/ | +==========================================================================+ From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Tue Jun 18 14:44:49 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <01I623CJY03600E3RV@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> >One problem of providing the drives is compatibility. While Iomega is >the market leader, I have no idea if it is very dominent, and each maker >has it's own technology (the disks range from 100 mb. on up in size, >depending on the maker). > Jim and everyone else... :-) Reports from Infoworld indicate that Iomega (Zip's maker) has just landed deals to have Zip drives included as standard components in a number of PC manufacturer's offerings. It seems that they are well positioned to become a standard. Also - Zip drives have been seen for at least as low as $190 (US) with cartridges (disks?) running about $20 (US). Someone had mentioned a $500 price tag, but I think that is for the Ziup's big brother, the Jaz drive, which can handle up to 1GB of Data. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Information technology has Bill Crosbie replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From lwilliam at nslsilus.org Tue Jun 18 14:48:15 1996 From: lwilliam at nslsilus.org (Lesley Williams) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Dedicated use Web stations, (was limiting Lynx) Message-ID: The preceding discussion on limiting the URLs accessible at public workstations reminds me of an issue we'll soon be wrestling with. We have four public terminals which access the Web through Netscape, and about 10 which access our CD-ROM LAN. Many of our CD-ROMs from Infotrac, Gale, and Wilson, are now or will soon be available through the Web as well. Ideally, we would like to start subscribing to as many as possible through the Web alone, in order to get more current information, and to avoid the limitations of CD-ROM. However, if everything is available on the Web from every workstation, how do we make sure that patrons wanting to use the reference products get a fair chance? The Web terminals are always in use, largely by people doing casual surfing. Should we designate a certain number of terminals for reference Web products only? Is this feasible? We are also considering creating a business and jobs workstation, which would have CD-ROMs, Web sites, and software related to job searching and company information. How would we keep patrons from using it for general Web browsing? Let me stress thst we would always want to retain a certain number of workstations for unlimited Web use, but given that we'll be paying for access to Web based reference services, we would want to be sure that they don't get lost in a sea of other products. All ideas appreciated! Opinions expressed above are solely those of the author, not an official communication of the Arlington Heights Memorial Library. Lesley Williams tel 847-506-2667 Electronic Resources Specialist fax 847-506-2636 Arlington Heights Memorial Library lwilliam@nslsilus.org Arlington Heights IL USA www.nslsilus.org/ahmlhome From GOODELD at fsa.wosc.osshe.edu Tue Jun 18 15:10:41 1996 From: GOODELD at fsa.wosc.osshe.edu (Dale E. Goodell) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 and security Message-ID: <3658AF16E01@fsa.wosc.osshe.edu> This message is being cross-posted to multiple lists; my apologies for any duplication. Each Netscape upgrade brings new problems when offering it at public workstations. We are upgrading our public workstations to Netscape 2.02 and have a network security question. Windows for Worksgroups 3.11 and Netscape are installed on a NetWare 3.11 fileserver. The Fortress program is used to secure Windows and IKIOSK (currently in beta) is used to disable a number of Netscape pull-down menu choices. IKIOSK beta does not have the capability to disable choices within dialog boxes. We also use a program to protect access to workstation hard drives. With the environment above, we still have a security concern. This concern involves three File menu choices: "Mail Document", "New Mail Message", and "Save As." These choices allow users access to a "Network" button. In mail, for example, a user can attach a file and, using the Network button, see the directory structure for not only the workstation hard drive, but also network drives. We have a utility to write-protect the local hard drive, and we can secure the network drives through the user login. What concerns us the most, however, is that the "Network" button allows a user to see all fileservers on the network and map to any drive on any fileserver for which they have a login; the system will ask for a login name and password when connecting to another server. We want to prevent someone from using this method to login to other network servers. The Network dialog box in Netscape appears to be the same as the NWUSER.EXE program, which is usually located in the \WINDOWS\SYSTEM directory. We have tried deleting this file, not only from the fileserver, but from the local hard drive as well, but to no avail. It seems as though this "Network" dialog box is somehow "hard-coded" in either Windows or Netscape. The question is: can the Netscape Network button be disabled somehow, or if not, what is the best way to cope with this choice from a security point of view in a public mode. We are trying to allow users to mail Web pages, but not use the built in mail client to read mail. ================================================================== Dale E. Goodell User Support Specialist Western Oregon State College Library Monmouth, OR 97361 Internet: goodeld@fsa.wosc.osshe.edu Voice: 503/838-8891 Fax: 503/838-8399 From engwall at uthscsa.edu Tue Jun 18 15:18:05 1996 From: engwall at uthscsa.edu (Keith Engwall) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <01BB5D20.F8524B20@micro32.uthscsa.edu> I believe they've also licensed out their technology to EPSON to manufacture Zip drives (EPSON can put their name on it, but must also include the Iomega "i"). The EPSON Zip drives were running about $185 at Comp USA last I'd heard (although that might have been a sale). Keith ---------- From: Bill Crosbie[SMTP:crosbie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 1:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: zip drive >One problem of providing the drives is compatibility. While Iomega is >the market leader, I have no idea if it is very dominent, and each maker >has it's own technology (the disks range from 100 mb. on up in size, >depending on the maker). > Jim and everyone else... :-) Reports from Infoworld indicate that Iomega (Zip's maker) has just landed deals to have Zip drives included as standard components in a number of PC manufacturer's offerings. It seems that they are well positioned to become a standard. Also - Zip drives have been seen for at least as low as $190 (US) with cartridges (disks?) running about $20 (US). Someone had mentioned a $500 price tag, but I think that is for the Ziup's big brother, the Jaz drive, which can handle up to 1GB of Data. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Information technology has Bill Crosbie replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Tue Jun 18 15:24:47 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <01I624R371SY00DXI3@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> >What If??????? >Libraries set a minimum expertise level for all library staff (professional >librarians, administrators,etc.). They could then focus $$$$ and energy >on ensuring that all attain that level. It could include: >1. Internet Research Using Graphical and Text Based Browsers >2. Basic HTML Capabilities <> Ok, I think that the subject has gotten everyone's attention. :-) I saw this posting and it caused me to re-consider where things should be heading with libraries and the web. Before I go any further let me say what I am NOT saying. I am not saying that: 1) Librarians are incapable of computer expertise 2) Professionals don't need to understand the tools that they work with 3) HTML mark-up is evil and bad and a waste of time 4) "Computer people" (whoever they are...) have all of the answers 5) Librarians should NOT learn html What is HTML mark-up? It depends on the context, of course. At some sites (check for the enhanced for <>) it is an artistic form. For others it is a means of disseminating information. For still others it means the administrative headache of maintaining static pages in a dynamic world. To me, HTML mark-up is grunt work. Yes, grunt work, pure and simple. Once you learn the fundamentals of how to insert the tags and which are containers and which stand alone, that is all it really boils down to. This is especially true if what you are trying to do is _provide_information_. The encoding of the tags gets in the way of what you are really trying to do - make information accessible to your patrons (customer base). I don't really beelive that HTML mark-up is the skill that librarians need to be conentrating on, especially for the creation of content resource pages for their libraries. The skill that they should bring to their corner of the web is what they have been doing for their libraries all along - evaluating the resources and determining what resources belong in 'their' collection of links. Well, isn't that what you are doing, yes. Probably. But you are also being burdened by creating and _maintaining_ these pages. The initial layout of a page is exciting and challenging. Librarians should be involved with that, as well as graphic designers, computer people, and even your patrons. Everyone should have a hand in designing the tools that will be used. I submit for the group's approval that page creation and maintenance can be a largely mechanical process. (If you doubt this, just perform a search on your favorite search engine.) Once you decide on how everything is going to look and how the categories are going to fall out, the rest is coding to the specifications that have been defined. (I realize that the devil is in the details of this step and do not assume it to be an easy task... nor will it be static... it will have to constatntly evolve.) So what am I saying? I believe that the future of the Web in libraries is going to be maintaining a separate database of links to information that is deemed to be 'solid' by the selectors. The selectors might type up a brief 'abstract' of the site in question, or an evaluation of the material, and will classify it according to a yet to be determined schema. And then the interface to the database will allow your end user to determine the level of detail that that is necessary for that particular interaction with your library web. And that a computer will generate the grunt work HTML mark-up to display the information in what ever format has been laid out in advance. In this vision of libraries and the web, librarians can concentrate on the information that is available, which is what i believe has drawn all of us into library/information science in one way or another. I certainly welcome comments, criticisms and extensions to this concept. Pointers to working models are appreciated. I know I'm not the only one whohas thought of this. Oh, and no flames, please, my asbestos suit is at the cleaners. :-) Reporting virtually from the banks of the old raritan.... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Information technology has Bill Crosbie replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu Tue Jun 18 16:03:59 1996 From: pcgorman at facstaff.wisc.edu (Peter C. Gorman) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 and security Message-ID: Dale E. Goodell writes: >The question is: can the Netscape Network button be disabled somehow, >or if not, what is the best way to cope with this choice from a >security point of view in a public mode. We are trying to allow >users to mail Web pages, but not use the built in mail client to read >mail. It took us a while to track this one down; I hope it works for you. The Network button in dialog boxes seems to come from COMMDLG.DLL, normally found in windows\system. We're using a version dated 6/9/92 that doesn't include the Network button. PG _______________________________ Peter C. Gorman University of Wisconsin General Library System Automation Services pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu From DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu Tue Jun 18 13:24:59 1996 From: DLESTER at bsu.idbsu.edu (Dan Lester) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Monitoring/limiting of Web Usage -Reply Message-ID: Several thoughts on this. First, many companies have much more restrictive policies on electronic access than we academics are used to. My wife is in a position similar to mine with a Fortune 50 computer company. They are firewalled very well. Web access is thru proxy servers, which could (don't know if they do) monitor who is going where to find what. There are firm policies regarding sexual harassment (as there should be), including display of pornography. If you downloaded a "dirty picture" and the wrong person came by your cube or office at that time you could be gone. Period. No grievance, no hassle, no questions. Gone. Email may be monitored, but in fact probably rarely is. She needs to be MUCH more circumspect in anything she says on the nets than I could even try to be. (obviously, one good reason I've spent my life in higher education, not in the business world). Public libraries have a somewhat different issue in some communities, that of "protecting the citizens from nasty stuff". Of course that is compounded by children being there, which the academics and business don't usually face. In academia there is indeed the academic freedom issue, and of course privacy is usually regarded as more important by academics (why is another question that could use some analysis....although I respect privacy I have none and want none...I have NO secrets, nor will I ever...but that is another issue). But for use by employees, the internet is a management issue and NOT A TECHNOLOGY ISSUE. As I've suggested various places before, if I wanted something to "let me goof off" I've a half million books and several thousand current journals that are quite adequate, thank you very much. As far as Acceptable Use Policies for employees of various organizations, or customers of those organizations, several archives of them have been cited here before, and a quick search should produce them. In most publicly funded libraries the monitoring of patron usage would violate library privacy laws in most states, and would certainly violate the Library Bill of Rights. dan Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Boise State University Library, Boise, Idaho, 83725 USA voice: 208-385-1235 fax: 208-385-1394 dlester@bsu.idbsu.edu OR alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu Cyclops' Internet Toolbox: http://cyclops.idbsu.edu "How can one fool make another wise?" Kansas, 1979. From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Tue Jun 18 19:07:47 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <529A9B71850@gee.natlib.govt.nz> > I don't really beelive that HTML mark-up is the skill that librarians need > to be conentrating on, especially for the creation of content resource pages > for their libraries. The skill that they should bring to their corner of > the web is what they have been doing for their libraries all along - > evaluating the resources and determining what resources belong in 'their' > collection of links. > Bill - you've hit the nail on the head. I entirely agree with you. Librarians should stick to their knitting and do what they do best. I guess what happens is all the new technologies come along and a lot of energy goes into trying to understand them at the expense of understanding what the business/client needs are. I suppose because it is all shiny and new. I guess it's because understanding business/client needs are really hard work and it is easier relatively to get your head around how something works - the technology. On the other hand, how to do you get people to understand the concept of hypertext without actually writing HTML per se? Maybe we should use something like Storyspace and get them to write hyperfiction or get people to participate in something like Waxweb? Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From WEISSMAN at main.morris.org Tue Jun 18 19:38:09 1996 From: WEISSMAN at main.morris.org (Sara Weissman/Morris Cty Library) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: PS file Message-ID: <960618193809.20212d1d@main.morris.org> More to the point, this is a report from Print Monitor on why a print job failed, queued, or whatever...do you need this file? Are you still having print problems? I believe (haven't checked this recently) the option to have Print Monitor save reports can be toggled on and off .. are you networking stations to a single printer? perhaps? From ace at Opus1.COM Tue Jun 18 21:31:33 1996 From: ace at Opus1.COM (Elisabeth Roche) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: zip drive Message-ID: <01I62B6XDCWI91VRCU@Opus1.COM> Thanks to everyone for the information on the prices and brands of popular zip drives. And all the comments on use of them in public access areas. Bill- thanks! Yes, I had forgotten the name of the zip drive our class received, it was a Jaz and was 1GB. Thanks for clearing up my confusions here, I had decided that $500 must have been the "donated" price tag:)) BTW- the class was a systems engineering multimedia course, we had great need for that drive as we designed, re-designed, re-designed (it-t-t-t-t-erate:)) our demo's over the semester. Lots of experiments with graphics, sounds, action clips, etc. But no space to leave these files on the computer lab machines. At 11:52 AM 6/18/96 -0700, Bill Crosbie wrote: > >>One problem of providing the drives is compatibility. While Iomega is >>the market leader, I have no idea if it is very dominent, and each maker >>has it's own technology (the disks range from 100 mb. on up in size, >>depending on the maker). >> > >Jim and everyone else... :-) > >Reports from Infoworld indicate that Iomega (Zip's maker) has just landed >deals to have Zip drives included as standard components in a number of PC >manufacturer's offerings. It seems that they are well positioned to become >a standard. > >Also - Zip drives have been seen for at least as low as $190 (US) with >cartridges (disks?) running about $20 (US). Someone had mentioned a $500 >price tag, but I think that is for the Ziup's big brother, the Jaz drive, >which can handle up to 1GB of Data. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Information technology has Bill Crosbie >replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst >symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library > Rutgers University > -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA > creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu > 908-932-0305 x114 > > From thom at copper.ucs.indiana.edu Tue Jun 18 23:21:08 1996 From: thom at copper.ucs.indiana.edu (The Big Glee Bopper) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? In-Reply-To: <529A9B71850@gee.natlib.govt.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Vivienne Cuff wrote: > On the other hand, how to do you get people to understand the > concept of hypertext without actually writing HTML per se? > Maybe we should use something like Storyspace and get them to write > hyperfiction or get people to participate in something like Waxweb? When you describe someone as literate it means they can _read_ & _write_. Being literate in a digital environment means you have to be able to do more than click on links for true understanding ... you have to be able to program which is digital writing. Hopefully it will get easier but writing is always difficult whether in text, audio, video or digits. --Thom From pgarrett at library.usyd.edu.au Wed Jun 19 01:04:07 1996 From: pgarrett at library.usyd.edu.au (Paula Garrett) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:54 2005 Subject: Staffing for Web management Message-ID: We're trying to get an idea of how other libraries are handling staffing and training issues related to Web management, development, coordination. Below are some specific questions. Please feel free to add any other pertinent info. I will summarise for the list if you send your replies directly to me. 1.0 Your present staffing of positions related to Web content, development, coordination, i.e: --Number of full-time equivalents? --Classification (librarian, library assistant, technical support)? --Are their Web responsibilities listed in their job descriptions? --A brief statement of their duties would be most useful. --Please describe if positions have been created and/or restructured to include Web-related duties. Have Web duties replaced (or made unnecessary or less of a priority) other duties? --What is your ideal staffing level for Web-related needs? 2.0 Experience/Training Implications --What "technical skills" are required to maintain a Web site e.g. cgi scripting, Unix management etc? --What other skills e.g. interface design, html authoring, content organization, training, good communication skills, etc. have you identified as necessary? Many thanks, Paula Paula Garrett Reference Services Librarian University of Sydney Library NSW 2006 Australia E-mail: pgarrett@library.usyd.edu.au Phone: 61-2-351-5856 From scramer at davenport.edu Wed Jun 19 08:54:21 1996 From: scramer at davenport.edu (Steve Cramer) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply Message-ID: The Big Glee Bopper Tuesday, June 18, 1996 "Being literate in a digital environment means you have to be able to do more than click on links for true understanding ... you have to be able to program which is digital writing." ____________________________________ Yes, *some* librarians need to know HTML. For example, librarians who teach classes about the Web or teach Web search strategies need to understand the basis of the Web, just as most catalogers need to be familiar with AACR2 and MARC records. Another thing to consider is the rise of What-you-see-is-what-you-get HTML editors like Netscape Navigator Gold, designed to make HTML programming more transparent. Many people frown on using such editors, but more and more people are going to be creating Web pages without knowing any HTML. Steve Cramer Library, Davenport College of Business Holland, Michigan USA scramer@davenport.edu From tucker at IAS.EDU Wed Jun 19 11:57:16 1996 From: tucker at IAS.EDU (Marcia Tucker) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <31C8235C.4D35@math.ias.edu> As a Reference Librarian who also does original cataloging (and now is also the web page developer for a small library - one does what one has to - to get the job done...) I think that a basic understanding of html does help librarians with their reference work. One example is I was helping someone locate legal information on the web and when we got to the web page which had information we needed it was an empty page - visually. I clicked on view document source and all of the needed information was there in full, just a few major mistakes in the mark-up. I think that librarians should understand the nuts and bolts of our information structures as well as the tools which allow us to do our jobs well. A basic understand of how things work is essential for proper utilization. One needs to know the weaknesses as well as the strengths of each information source. HTML and the search engines which allow access are no different from understanding cataloging and the PAC engines. (at least in my slanted view!) I suppose that I am very fortunate to be working in a small library environment and have the ability to do a lot of everything. One could make priorities in html markup for teaching to staff members, perhaps make it the basic html understood by most browsers and blow off the cute - "neat-o" aspects which people incorporate for Netscape users! HTML is not difficult and it would help people with their understanding of how the World Wide Web works in general! Vivienne Cuff wrote in response to previous message regarding html and librarians: > ... new technologies come along and a lot of >energy goes into trying to understand them at the expense of >understanding what the business/client needs are. Marcia Tucker tucker@math.ias.edu Historical Studies - Social Science Library Institute for Advanced Study Princeton, NJ USA From mfriley at erols.com Wed Jun 19 09:06:33 1996 From: mfriley at erols.com (Margaret F. Riley) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <199606191306.JAA01539@smtp2.erols.com> At 03:58 PM 6/18/96 -0700, Vivienne Cuff wrote: > >> I don't really beelive that HTML mark-up is the skill that librarians need >> to be conentrating on, especially for the creation of content resource pages >> for their libraries. The skill that they should bring to their corner of >> the web is what they have been doing for their libraries all along - >> evaluating the resources and determining what resources belong in 'their' >> collection of links. >> >Bill - you've hit the nail on the head. I entirely agree with you. >Librarians should stick to their knitting and do what they do best. [...] >On the other hand, how to do you get people to understand the >concept of hypertext without actually writing HTML per se? >Maybe we should use something like Storyspace and get them to write >hyperfiction or get people to participate in something like Waxweb? I agree with this idea also. Let the librarians create the ideas and resources and then hand these over to others to put into HTML. However, it does serve a purpose to have a basic understanding of HTML so when the HTML writer comes back with questions or a counter-proposal for layout that a conversation based on mutual understanding and knowledge can take place. I tried to encourage the librarians and staff at my former library to create personal pages and to begin mark-up on standard handouts, etc. These could then be taken over by others, namely students, who would maintain the pages and add new information as the librarians created it. One more point I'd like to make is it very easy to use many of the new HTML editing packages out there without ever learning HTML, but I really encourage all who want to write pages to do some by hand and *learn basic HTML*. When the editor does something odd or you place the pages somewhere the editor cannot reach (like on your Unix system), you will appreciate a basic ability to correct the code yourself. Margaret Margaret F. Riley Internet Consultant The Riley Guide 3726 Nimitz Road http://www.jobtrak.com/jobguide/ Kensington, MD 20895-1700 mfriley@erols.com (301) 946-1917 mfriley@ultranet.com ######################################## "The Guide to Internet Job Searching" by Margaret Riley, Frances Roehm, and Steve Oserman. VGM Career Horizons, April 1996. 1-800-323-4900 From holight at lakeland.lib.mi.us Wed Jun 19 09:26:01 1996 From: holight at lakeland.lib.mi.us (HOL Lin Light) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Netscape 2.02 and security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have replied to another user, but I thought maybe to all may be helpful. I have 4 public PCs for Internet access, they are connect to my 3COM Hub which in turn has a direct bridge connection to a Freenet system housed within the library. I have not allowed any downloading because one of the options was my f:drive [fileserver]. With some help I found that by deleting two lines from my Autoexec.bat connection to my fileserver would not be made, but yet connection to the NET was. I deleted the lines for loading the IPXODI and NETX. Go in peace to love and serve the world. -------------------- Lin Light Head of Technical and Automated Services Herrick Public Library 300 South River Ave. Holland, Michigan 49423 USA voice: 616-355-1400 FAX: 616-355-1426 E-mail: llight@lakeland.lib.mi.us On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Peter C. Gorman wrote: > Dale E. Goodell writes: > > >The question is: can the Netscape Network button be disabled somehow, > >or if not, what is the best way to cope with this choice from a > >security point of view in a public mode. We are trying to allow > >users to mail Web pages, but not use the built in mail client to read > >mail. > > It took us a while to track this one down; I hope it works for you. The > Network button in dialog boxes seems to come from COMMDLG.DLL, normally > found in windows\system. We're using a version dated 6/9/92 that doesn't > include the Network button. > > PG > _______________________________ > Peter C. Gorman > University of Wisconsin > General Library System > Automation Services > pcgorman@facstaff.wisc.edu > > From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Jun 19 09:57:56 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply Message-ID: <199606191358.JAA23055@ohiolink.edu> > Yes, *some* librarians need to know HTML. For > example, librarians who teach classes about the Web or > teach Web search strategies need to understand the basis > of the Web, just as most catalogers need to be familiar > with AACR2 and MARC records. I think you could make a very good case that reference librarians also need a pretty thorough understanding of the MARC record. Likewise I know from experience that serials catalogers benefit immensely by doing a little reference work in a serials-intensive library. If you're going to ask your catalogers to provide input on the web interface to your catalog, they'll need at least enough knowledge of HTML to understand its limitations. If you're going to get your collection development people on board to discuss full-text delivery options, they'll not only need a thorough grounding in HTML, but be able to compare it productively with alternatives like PDF. > > Another thing to consider is the rise of > What-you-see-is-what-you-get HTML editors like > Netscape Navigator Gold, designed to make HTML > programming more transparent. Many people frown on > using such editors, but more and more people are going to > be creating Web pages without knowing any HTML. Unfortunately, more and more people writing HTML documents will fail to realize or understand why the phrase "What-you-see-is-what-you-get HTML editors" is nonsensical. I have no problem with people being able to create a first-level header without actually having to type "

...

". But I do have qualms about tools which fool users into thinking a portable structural markup language can--or should--be used as a WYSIWYG page description language. And one real-world upshot of this is that too many people creating web pages are tying themselves in knots to micromange the detailed appearance of their documents, oblivious to the fact that those details may fly out the window as soon as a user tries a different browser (or even different settings on the same browser). Thomas "Real HTML writers use vi!" Dowling From DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU Wed Jun 19 10:07:30 1996 From: DOYLEM at ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU (MARY A. DOYLE, SYSTEMS LIBRARIAN, ECSU) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? - Reply Message-ID: <960619100730.20239ddd@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU> The Big Glee Bopper Tuesday, June 18, 1996 "Being literate in a digital environment means you have to be able to do more than click on links for true understanding ... you have to be able to program which is digital writing." ____________________________________ Yes, *some* librarians need to know HTML. _____________________________________ Yes I agree. Just a reminder that we all took cataloging, reference, etc. in library schools. They were the tools that began our "information literacy". I think that a new age has dawned and we are expected to function in that new age.The tools are evolving. I think that the premise that we as a profession can somehow be removed from the current set of technological tools is false and dangerous. And.... there should be more than one or two individuals in a library that are "technologically literate" The technologies that allow us to move files around, DOS, Windows, integrated library systems (flavor of your choice) HTML all will evolve. Just as those old cataloging and reference tools have done. Yet I believe the commitment to ramping up an institution and its personnel to fully participate in their use, now and in the future, is vital. What if......... From crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU Wed Jun 19 10:09:21 1996 From: crosbie at AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Crosbie) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <01I6381D8NHA00D50T@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU> ADDENDUM: I have received a number of replies and I thank everyone for providing food for thought as I mull this over and refine my ideas. One thing that I would like to stress to all of my colleagues - I am really talking about the creation and maintenance of your system-wide library pages. Thom Gillespie had written that to be literate is to read and write, and this holds true in a digital environment. I agree with him. Some of you are creating new information resources - that is critical in the evolving world of digital information. My contention is that for links to other internet resources, the process of the mark-up could be automated. The reason for automation is multi-faceted. 1) It allows the library staff to FOCUS more on EVALUATION of outside resources. This would give your own library's links an advantage of alta-vista searches. 2) It maintains CONSISTENCY. Your pages will have a common look and feel that is difficult (though not impossible) to maintain with multiple page maintainers. 3) It allows for EASY GLOBAL CHANGES. If the page generation is automated then a) if you change the generation engine, the entire site can be redesigned and implemented in a minimum of time b) if a link appears on mulitple pages, and the link value changes, a change to a central database of information is reflected in all of the necessary pages on your site. and finally 4) it sets the stage for the next phase of customer service - allowing us to custom tailor the information we present to our patrons to better fit their needs. I hope that this clears up what my stated position is. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Information technology has Bill Crosbie replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From engwall at uthscsa.edu Wed Jun 19 10:30:48 1996 From: engwall at uthscsa.edu (Keith Engwall) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <01BB5DC2.006CF5C0@micro32.uthscsa.edu> Whether I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Bill is open to interpretation, I guess, but here's my opinions on the matter. Should every librarian be a webmaster? Definitely not. The ability to put clickable maps in frames is not a skill necessary to perform one's job. Should every library have a webmaster? That's up to the library. How does the internet fit into that library's mission? I'd say that if they invest in training or hiring an individual or group of individuals who are proficient in HTML and/or internet navigation would be rewarded in the long run, due to the pervasive way this medium is being absorbed into business, entertainment, grass roots, and many other levels of our culture. Should every librarian have basic skills in Internet Research? Well, like above, that depends on what role the internet plays in the mission of the library... but if the library is going to take on the expense of taking advantage of the information resources available on the Internet, it's foolish not to do it right and train everyone on the staff in at least the basic research methods - search engines, directories, etc. Otherwise this resource is sucking unbelievable amounts of cash for nought. Should every librarian have basic HTML capabilities? Why not? If librarians can tackle the MARC record, basic HTML should be CAKE!!! And if a librarian can't recognize an HTML file well enough to know to run it through a browser, then that's pretty silly. I mean, what are we talking here? The concept of tags (this is not THAT different from the concept of MARC field notation), 10-20 basic tags and what they look like in a browser, and the general rules behind placing tags. Now, just as not every librarian is suited to the task of a full-time cataloger, not every librarian should be expected to write an HTML site (this is what specializations are for); but just as every librarian learns some basic cataloging to become familiar with the process and what it means in the context of the library, they should be exposed to the basics of HTML if they're adopting this medium into their library. Keith ---------- From: Bill Crosbie[SMTP:crosbie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 1996 3:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? >What If??????? >Libraries set a minimum expertise level for all library staff (professional >librarians, administrators,etc.). They could then focus $$$$ and energy >on ensuring that all attain that level. It could include: >1. Internet Research Using Graphical and Text Based Browsers >2. Basic HTML Capabilities <> Ok, I think that the subject has gotten everyone's attention. :-) I saw this posting and it caused me to re-consider where things should be heading with libraries and the web. Before I go any further let me say what I am NOT saying. I am not saying that: 1) Librarians are incapable of computer expertise 2) Professionals don't need to understand the tools that they work with 3) HTML mark-up is evil and bad and a waste of time 4) "Computer people" (whoever they are...) have all of the answers 5) Librarians should NOT learn html What is HTML mark-up? It depends on the context, of course. At some sites (check for the enhanced for <>) it is an artistic form. For others it is a means of disseminating information. For still others it means the administrative headache of maintaining static pages in a dynamic world. To me, HTML mark-up is grunt work. Yes, grunt work, pure and simple. Once you learn the fundamentals of how to insert the tags and which are containers and which stand alone, that is all it really boils down to. This is especially true if what you are trying to do is _provide_information_. The encoding of the tags gets in the way of what you are really trying to do - make information accessible to your patrons (customer base). I don't really beelive that HTML mark-up is the skill that librarians need to be conentrating on, especially for the creation of content resource pages for their libraries. The skill that they should bring to their corner of the web is what they have been doing for their libraries all along - evaluating the resources and determining what resources belong in 'their' collection of links. Well, isn't that what you are doing, yes. Probably. But you are also being burdened by creating and _maintaining_ these pages. The initial layout of a page is exciting and challenging. Librarians should be involved with that, as well as graphic designers, computer people, and even your patrons. Everyone should have a hand in designing the tools that will be used. I submit for the group's approval that page creation and maintenance can be a largely mechanical process. (If you doubt this, just perform a search on your favorite search engine.) Once you decide on how everything is going to look and how the categories are going to fall out, the rest is coding to the specifications that have been defined. (I realize that the devil is in the details of this step and do not assume it to be an easy task... nor will it be static... it will have to constatntly evolve.) So what am I saying? I believe that the future of the Web in libraries is going to be maintaining a separate database of links to information that is deemed to be 'solid' by the selectors. The selectors might type up a brief 'abstract' of the site in question, or an evaluation of the material, and will classify it according to a yet to be determined schema. And then the interface to the database will allow your end user to determine the level of detail that that is necessary for that particular interaction with your library web. And that a computer will generate the grunt work HTML mark-up to display the information in what ever format has been laid out in advance. In this vision of libraries and the web, librarians can concentrate on the information that is available, which is what i believe has drawn all of us into library/information science in one way or another. I certainly welcome comments, criticisms and extensions to this concept. Pointers to working models are appreciated. I know I'm not the only one whohas thought of this. Oh, and no flames, please, my asbestos suit is at the cleaners. :-) Reporting virtually from the banks of the old raritan.... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Information technology has Bill Crosbie replaced hot cars as the Microcomputer Analyst symbol of robust manhood. Chang Science Library Rutgers University -Scott Adams New Brunswick, NJ USA creator of 'Dilbert' crosbie@aesop.rutgers.edu 908-932-0305 x114 From pmackinn at nstn.ca Wed Jun 19 10:38:46 1996 From: pmackinn at nstn.ca (Paula MacKinnon) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Relevancy and Ranking... by Wealth Message-ID: Here's an interesting development. Through, no doubt divine inspiration, OpenText (www.opentext.com) is offering a "Preferred Listing" service whereby you pay a monthly fee to guarantee high relevancy ranking. Here's an overview by a "preferred" client (and for some strange reason, after reading this little missive, I thought "I need a drink"): -Paula ---------------------------------- OpenText Preferred Listing If you're like us, you know that getting your site to pop up first on a search results page is the Holy Grail of Web promotion! And, if you're like us, you know how frustrating it is when a competitor pops up there instead... They are getting _your_ visitors. What if you could guarantee top placement on the search results page? That'd be pretty valuable. Well now it's available and its inexpensive to boot! Recently, the Open Text full-text search engine introduced Preferred Listings (tm), which lets you buy the top spot to gain exposure and drive more traffic to your site. Preferred Listings works just like the Yellow Pages. You simply choose a search term -- for example, "travel" or "hosting" -- and Open Text guarantees your Web site a priority listing whenever a user searches for that phrase or keyword. Unlike expensive banner ads that sell for $10,000 a month or more, Preferred Listings cost as little as $2,000 for a six-month priority position. You can get a 15 percent discount if you list your URL with three or more search terms. If you sign up for this now, you'll get all the rest of June for FREE. We're trying it out ourselves, because personally I think it is one of the most powerful advertising buys you're likely to see. If you are interested in this, please visit our site for details and to sign up. It's easy, inexpensive, and if you hurry, the rest of the month is FREE. http://www.netcreations.com/postmaster/prefered/ ********************************************************* Paula MacKinnon, MLIS * Internet Librarian iSTAR internet inc. * ...to the stars Fax: (613)780-6666 * ---- Tel: (613)780-2268 * Editor-in-Chief, True North Paula.MacKinnon@istar.ca * http://www.truenorth.net ********************************************************* From cbarnett at leo.vsla.edu Wed Jun 19 10:52:52 1996 From: cbarnett at leo.vsla.edu (Chip Barnett) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Web limitations for schoolchildren Message-ID: <199606191452.KAA22903@leo.vsla.edu> I've got a question about the type of Web access students can (or should) get at public schools, but let me give you some background first. (This is only peripherally related to the recent thread on limiting URLs.) I'm a reference librarian at a rural two-county, two-city public library, and I'm charged with the technical lead of a half- million-dollar project among the public library and all four school districts to get (relatively) high-speed full Internet access to all the schools and libraries in the area. All 22 sites will be connected to each other in a frame relay network via 56-kbps leased lines. We'll achieve Internet access through a T1 line, and will share a central router and three servers (news, e-mail, and Web). After two and a half years, we're on the verge of completion, with the leased lines in and the routers and servers due to be installed soon. The problem is this: The schools are concerned about protecting their students from nastiness on the Internet, and our network administrator is pushing a solution that concerns me greatly. He's highly intelligent and well educated, an expert on the Internet and technology in the schools. He's also a nice guy, but he wants to protect children by loading onto the central router a list of approved Web sites; if a site is not on that list, no one can visit it (students, teacher, or staff). (This does not affect the public library, by the way. Our patrons will have complete and unfettered Internet access.) I've argued that not only will his solution be incredibly time-consuming to implement, but it defeats one of the primary virtues of the Internet: being able to explore and find sites and information that you never even knew existed. My suggestion is that we instead use a denied list -- allow students to reach any site except those on a denied list -- or simply use a commercial product such as SurfWatch or NetNanny. My problem is that I don't know enough about what other schools with existing Internet access have done, meaning that I'm arguing from ignorance. While I'm certainly interested in your opinions and suggestions, I'm especially eager for two types of information: 1) Do you know of schools that use an approved list such as he's proposing? What has their experience been? Has learning been impeded? 2) What has been the experience at schools relying on SurfWatch-type clients? Have many of them had trouble with students still getting into parent-panicking material? I'd appreciate anything you can tell me. Unless you think this would be a good discussion topic for the list, you might want to reply directly to me and I'll summarize for the list. Thanks. -- Chip Barnett (cbarnett@leo.vsla.edu) Rockbridge Regional Library (540) 463-4324 138 S. Main St. (540) 464-4824 (fax) Lexington, VA 24450 From SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Wed Jun 19 11:17:30 1996 From: SCHNEIDER.KAREN at EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV (KAREN SCHNEIDER) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply Message-ID: Learning a little HTML is like taking a cataloging class--even if you never catalog (and hoo boy, never say never...), you will appreciate what it teaches you about the resources you're using. All part of that "expert knowledge" component. It transfers well, too; know a little HTML and you won't faint when you see a Perl script. karen g. schneider schneider.karen@epamail.epa.gov opinions mine alone From vincett at robles.callutheran.edu Wed Jun 19 11:38:58 1996 From: vincett at robles.callutheran.edu (James Vincett) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <9606191545.AA03269@robles.callutheran.edu> As for HTML skills, there are programs in the works now which make writing HTML just like using a word processor. Type some text, press a button, and the page is "published" on a server of your choice. See Netscape Gold and Microsoft FrontPage. Remember the old word processors, where you had to type in the codes if you wanted to bold, italicize or center text? In the future (i.e. 3-5 years), writing web pages will be a job for secretaries, and students will be taking HTML 101, akin to a typing class ten years ago. Literacy in the age of the Internet should encompass _information_ literacy; recognizing an information need, finding the information, evaluating the information, and using the information for the best advantage. This is something that librarians have been doing on a regular basis for decades: needs assessment, collections development, classification, and reference. Librarians need basic HTML skills if it will help in assisting others toward information literacy (i.e. a web page for dissemination of information), not as an end in itself. At 08:31 PM 6/18/96 -0700, The Big Glee Bopper wrote: >On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Vivienne Cuff wrote: > >> On the other hand, how to do you get people to understand the >> concept of hypertext without actually writing HTML per se? >> Maybe we should use something like Storyspace and get them to write >> hyperfiction or get people to participate in something like Waxweb? > >When you describe someone as literate it means they can _read_ & _write_. >Being literate in a digital environment means you have to be able to do >more than click on links for true understanding ... you have to be able >to program which is digital writing. Hopefully it will get easier but >writing is always difficult whether in text, audio, video or digits. > >--Thom > > > James Vincett Information Systems and Services California Lutheran University Voice: (805) 493-3940, FAX: (805) 493-3842 Web: http://clunet.edu/~vincett/training.html From rtennant at library.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 19 12:12:52 1996 From: rtennant at library.berkeley.edu (Roy Tennant) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply In-Reply-To: <199606191358.JAA23055@ohiolink.edu> Message-ID: In the interest of full disclosure, I have a book coming out next week for which the entire purpose is to teach librarians (and others) HTML. Now on to what I want to say. Librarians need to know whatever they need to perform their jobs effectively. This means that in any one library there may be one, two, one hundred, or none who need to know HTML. Hopefully you know who you are. If it is you, then it is your *professional duty* to learn that new tool. And anyone who (seriously) complains about it simply hasn't been paying attention to where the profession has been going for the last decade or more (that is, constant and rapid technological change). If you have a pulse, things change. If you want to remain professionally viable you must learn. Not every once in a while, not just when administration sends you to a class, but *all the time*. If you do anything less you will be increasingly marginalized. If you wake up one morning without a job or even the prospect of one then you will have no one to blame but yourself. So what about HTML specifically? Some of you need to know a dozen tags tops. Some of you need to know it thoroughly. Some need to be able to make minor changes to existing CGI scripts. Some of you need to be able to write CGI programs from scratch. ALL of us need to know what HTML is, how to see it beneath the Web documents we use (view source), and what's involved (in general terms) with using it to present information. Roy Tennant From ewodar at unixg.ubc.ca Wed Jun 19 12:13:20 1996 From: ewodar at unixg.ubc.ca (Erwin Wodarczak) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Web devt. fees? Message-ID: <199606191613.JAA21137@unixg.ubc.ca> I have a question for those who have developed Web sites working as independent consultants or contractors. What is the approximate fee range that you charge your clients? I will be developing a Web site for a national professional organization. This will be done outside my regular job. The Web site itself likely will be relatively modest: mostly text, with a logo and a few other graphics. The files will be mounted on a commercial server. Any advice on what would be an appropriate fee scale for such a project would be most appreciated. Private replies, please. *************************************************************************** Erwin Wodarczak - Records Analyst / Archivist UBC Library - Special Collections and University Archives Division Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada URL: http://unixg.ubc.ca:7001/0/providers/spcoll/welcome.html E-mail: ewodar@unixg.ubc.ca Tel: (604)822-5877 Fax: (604)822-9587 We do precision guesswork based on vague assumptions and unreliable data of dubious accuracy *************************************************************************** From TOM at wilbur.db.erau.edu Wed Jun 19 13:50:04 1996 From: TOM at wilbur.db.erau.edu (Tom Tipsword) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply Message-ID: <11A9B8E3FC0@wilbur.db.erau.edu> Haven't we about beaten this thread to death? I fear that web4lib may be undergoing a transition which I have seen all too often on other library related lists. The list starts with a relatively small number of posts exchanging useful information among practitioners and then is overwhelmed by lengthy discussions of what librarians should or shouldn't be doing in the "Information Age". I agree with Karen Schneider. Some librarians need to know HTML, or MARC, or whatever in varying degrees of detail, depending on their actual work environment and/or interests. I also suspect that most of us could tell which group we fall into without thinking too hard. One thing's certain, though -- if you aren't willing to learn and adapt they're going to find your bleached bones along the trail. For the record -- HTML isn't hard. I teach the basics plus a few tricks in about 90 minutes (See the following URL: http://amelia.db.erau.edu/erug/tutorial/workshop.html for an online tutorial to HTML created in my shop. You are free to use it or or link to it, but please do not distribute it further without the consent of the authors). Creating HTML documents isn't hard either. You can do it by hand or use one of a multitude of editors, converters, or publishers (I've tried a lot of them. Mostly they work ok. They all seem to require at least a little human intervention to get a really nice document. Personally, I use vi on a UNIX box for most of my HTML work. :> ). What's hard is to design your pages to convey your information effectively. Despite the tools available, I don't see any way to get really good pages, custom designed to fit your institution and your information, without having a knowledgeable human around to do the work. Anybody interested in a moderated list devoted solely to technical and design issues involved in creating pages and running web servers in libraries? If so, I'd be willing to host one. TNT Tom Tipsword Systems Manager, Hunt Memorial Library vox: 904-226-6601 Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University fax: 904-226-6368 Daytona Beach, FL 32114 http://amelia.db.erau.edu/~tom/ tom@wilbur.db.erau.edu "We need more fruitcakes in this world and less bakers." -- Jimmy Buffet. From haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU Wed Jun 19 00:00:03 1996 From: haseltin at ag.Arizona.EDU (Michael Haseltine) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960619040003.0069c264@ag.arizona.edu> I guess I want to stick my oar into this discussion. I think the idea that to do web pages you need to know how to write html is a little shortsighted. There are some who are stuck with fixing up their paper documents with reveal codes, but the rest of us have moved on to word processors that take care of that in the background. The same thing will happen with web documents, and even better, it's most likely all web editors will use the same file format: html. And we won't have to read or write it. Understanding html is definitely not necessary to understand hypertext. Ask Ted...damn, what's his name? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...the inventor of the concept, long before html. The concept is trivial, anyway. The real concerns are about creating useful information resources on the internet and using them for the benefit of our clients, now that we have at our disposal this neat tool. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Haseltine -- Arid Lands Information Center, University of Arizona haseltin@ag.arizona.edu From engwall at uthscsa.edu Wed Jun 19 14:16:32 1996 From: engwall at uthscsa.edu (Keith Engwall) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Relevancy and Ranking... by Wealth Message-ID: <01BB5DE1.894A6700@micro32.uthscsa.edu> *Sigh*... I hate to say it, but this doesn't surprise me a bit. At least we know about it, so that we can take it into consideration when using Open Text as a search engine. That whoooshing sound you hear is objectivity, integrity and quality concerns being blown out the window by the stiff wind of "vested interest". Keith "criteria before cash, anyone? anyone?" Engwall ---------- From: Paula MacKinnon[SMTP:pmackinn@nstn.ca] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 1996 11:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Relevancy and Ranking... by Wealth Here's an interesting development. Through, no doubt divine inspiration, OpenText (www.opentext.com) is offering a "Preferred Listing" service whereby you pay a monthly fee to guarantee high relevancy ranking. Here's an overview by a "preferred" client (and for some strange reason, after reading this little missive, I thought "I need a drink"): -Paula ---------------------------------- OpenText Preferred Listing If you're like us, you know that getting your site to pop up first on a search results page is the Holy Grail of Web promotion! And, if you're like us, you know how frustrating it is when a competitor pops up there instead... They are getting _your_ visitors. What if you could guarantee top placement on the search results page? That'd be pretty valuable. Well now it's available and its inexpensive to boot! Recently, the Open Text full-text search engine introduced Preferred Listings (tm), which lets you buy the top spot to gain exposure and drive more traffic to your site. Preferred Listings works just like the Yellow Pages. You simply choose a search term -- for example, "travel" or "hosting" -- and Open Text guarantees your Web site a priority listing whenever a user searches for that phrase or keyword. Unlike expensive banner ads that sell for $10,000 a month or more, Preferred Listings cost as little as $2,000 for a six-month priority position. You can get a 15 percent discount if you list your URL with three or more search terms. If you sign up for this now, you'll get all the rest of June for FREE. We're trying it out ourselves, because personally I think it is one of the most powerful advertising buys you're likely to see. If you are interested in this, please visit our site for details and to sign up. It's easy, inexpensive, and if you hurry, the rest of the month is FREE. http://www.netcreations.com/postmaster/prefered/ ********************************************************* Paula MacKinnon, MLIS * Internet Librarian iSTAR internet inc. * ...to the stars Fax: (613)780-6666 * ---- Tel: (613)780-2268 * Editor-in-Chief, True North Paula.MacKinnon@istar.ca * http://www.truenorth.net ********************************************************* From lib40 at Bayou.UH.EDU Wed Jun 19 14:47:48 1996 From: lib40 at Bayou.UH.EDU (jose aguinaga) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Position Announcement Message-ID: This message is being posted on numerous lists. Pardon for the duplication. ****************************************************************************** UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON LIBRARIES: Coordinator of Electronic Services Responsibilities: Reports to Head of Information Services; responsible for public service and administrative functions of the Electronic Publications Center, a networked facility with over 100 workstations and 70 electronic resources. Includes planning, project implementation, problem solving, evaluation, reporting, publicity, staff training, and liaison with other library departments and vendors. Manages small online searching operation. Includes direct supervision of one staff member, and responsibility for half-time staff member and ten student assistants. Provides service at the Reference/Electronic Publications Center desk, including some weekend and evening hours. Librarian duties include collection development (print and electronic), library instruction, and faculty liaison in life sciences. Requirements: Requires an ALA-accredited Master's degree and record of successful supervisory/management experience. Must have experience with wide range of electronic information resources. Excellent interpersonal, oral and written communication skills required. Must show a commitment to outstanding user-oriented services. Salary: $31,000. Comprehensive benefits package; choice of retirement programs including TIAA-CREF; tax-deferred annuity program available; release time to take a class up to 3 hours/week; no state or local income tax. Library Information: As the research library for a four-campus system, the University of Houston Libraries holdings exceed 1.8 million volumes, with a current materials budget of $4.2 million. Total staff includes 46 professionals and 170 support staff. The library is a member of ARL. General Information: Houston is the nation's fourth largest city and a vital commerce force. It has established a flourishing cultural life rivaled by few cities in the world. It enjoys the amenities of a large metropolitan city within easy reach of the Texas gulf coast. The University of Houston campus comprises 14 colleges and schools offering close to 80 degree programs with an enrollment exceeding 30,000 students, 7,000 of whom are enrolled in graduate studies. This institution is a Carnegie Research II university. Application deadline: Review of applications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled. Preliminary interviews will be conducted at the ALA Annual Conference in New York. Send letter of application, names of 3 references, and resume to Jose Aguinaga, Library Personnel Coordinator, University of Houston Libraries, Houston, Texas 77204-2091. The University of Houston is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Minorities, women, veterans and persons with disabilities are encouraged to apply. 6/96 From Margareta_S._Knauff at dsmllp.com Wed Jun 19 16:24:24 1996 From: Margareta_S._Knauff at dsmllp.com (Margareta S. Knauff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? Message-ID: <9605198352.AA835223184@ccmgate2.dsmllp.com> I have been watching this discussion with some interest. The situation here (a private law firm) is probably a little different. However - the Library is responsible for maintaining the firm web site. know that our pages do not have a uniform look and feel (yet), but there is some consistency overall. Being the "only" ones in the firm that do HTML give us some editorial and quality control over what is posted on our site. I have heard some horror stories from individuals in other organizations where each section and department marked up their own stuff and loaded it onto the server. The color scheme on one page clashed with another, or even the main company home page, and the quality level of web pages varied greatly from department to department. In my situation, learning HTML was an absolute career saver. The only downside, is with the 9 million other things I have to do, I don't get to devote as much attention to web development as I would like. As to those software programs that insert HTML tags for you - there are always going to be new developments in the tags (frames is an example) that won't be supported by the design programs. Knowing about HTML and the way it works allows you to insert the newer tags (if you want) even though they are not yet an industry standard (I am *NOT* advocating this, just mentioning it!). Margareta Knauff Tech & Online Services Librarian Dickstein, Shapiro & Morin, L.L.P. Margareta_S._Knauff@dsmllp.com From vle at LESLIEADM.senecac.on.ca Wed Jun 19 05:48:35 1996 From: vle at LESLIEADM.senecac.on.ca (Vinh Le) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Error Condition Re: sign off Message-ID: <148EE32251C4@leslieadm.senecac.on.ca> I have sent my request to sign off to Listproc as you had suggested but Listproc did not know what WEB4LIB was. So, please advise what I have to do now to sign off. Thank you. Vinh Le Campus Librarian Seneca College, Leslie Library Tel. (416) 491-5050 ext. 6261 Fax: (416) 491-5813 vle@leslieadm.senecac.on.ca From raureli at cello.gina.calstate.edu Wed Jun 19 15:35:39 1996 From: raureli at cello.gina.calstate.edu (Robin Aurelius) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Pay phone as modem terminal Message-ID: Is it possible to hook up a modem to a pay phone without using an acoustic coupler? And without destroying the physical security etc.?\ Robin Aurelius Library Technician From AUERN at GBMS01.UWGB.EDU Wed Jun 19 15:52:55 1996 From: AUERN at GBMS01.UWGB.EDU (Nicole J. Auer) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: html-l listserv Message-ID: <01I63HU7BKDE0001FR@GBMS01.UWGB.EDU> Not to drag this out further, but here's a list for HTML issues. Some on this list might be interested. I haven't been on it for a while, so I can't attest to the traffic and usefulness, but it might be worth a try. :-) Thanks! Nicole Auer Instruction/Reference Librarian University of Wisconsin-Green Bay auern@gbms01.uwgb.edu ----- Begin message from IN%"PCRISPE1@UA1VM.UA.EDU" 20-Jan-96 From: IN%"PCRISPE1@UA1VM.UA.EDU" "Patrick Douglas Crispen" 20-JAN-1996 18:48 To: IN%"ADV-HTML@UA1VM.UA.EDU" "Multiple recipients of list ADV-HTML" CC: Subj: INFO: HTML-L LIST Return-path: Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by GBMS01.UWGB.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #14092) id <01I08S36Y0QG00008C@GBMS01.UWGB.EDU> for AUERN@GBMS01.UWGB.EDU; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:48:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 0449; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:37:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0484; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:37:53 -0600 Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 6595 for ADV-HTML@UA1VM.UA.EDU; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:37:45 -0600 Received: from ua1vm.ua.edu (NJE origin PCRISPE1@UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0435; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:37:40 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:35:14 -0600 (CST) From: Patrick Douglas Crispen Subject: INFO: HTML-L LIST Sender: ADV-HTML - ADVANCED HTML DISCUSSION LIST To: Multiple recipients of list ADV-HTML Reply-to: Patrick Douglas Crispen Message-id: <960120.183739.CST.PCRISPE1@ua1vm.ua.edu> Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Approved-By: Patrick Douglas Crispen This was recently posted on NEW-LIST ... has anyone checked this out yet? -- PC HTML-L on LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR HTML Page Creation Assistance List or LISTSERV@TREARN.BITNET The HTML-L list is for assistance with questions on the creation of WWW (World Wide Web) pages, including CGI scripts, home pages, etc. To subscribe send the SUB HTML-L yourfirstname yourlastname command in the body of email to LISTSERV@VM.EGE.EDU.TR . For example: SUB HTML-L Pat Link Owner: Turgut Kalfaoglu turgut@vm.ege.edu.tr ----- End forwarded message From jsih at gort.ucsd.edu Wed Jun 19 16:51:11 1996 From: jsih at gort.ucsd.edu (Julie Sih) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Spotlight available Message-ID: <199606192051.NAA29015@gort.ucsd.edu> PANELISTS WANTED FOR APRIL 1997 MEETING Program chair for San Diego Chapter of SLA seeks Southern California corporate librarians to share informal advice about developing and managing corporate library webpages, corporate homepages, and/or intranets. (Academic librarians are already well-represented on our panel.) No honoraria, but substantial honor and a great networking opportunity. :-) If interested, please contact: Julie Sih, Corp. Programs Librarian | jsih@ucsd.edu University of California, San Diego | http://gort.ucsd.edu/js/ 9500 Gilman Drive, Dept 0175V | Ph. (619) 534-8622 La Jolla, CA 92093-0175 | FAX (619) 534-0746 "A jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and 50 thou." From rbatten at Sunburn.liunet.edu Wed Jun 19 18:06:09 1996 From: rbatten at Sunburn.liunet.edu (ROBERT L. BATTENFELD) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Relevancy and Ranking... by Wealth Message-ID: I think its more like a "sucking" sound.... Anyway I hope this doesn't catch on but I'm sure it will be like pigs to a trough. I wonder how they will deal with multiple "preferred" (fleeced?) clients that are competitors? Doesn't this "service" already exists with good web page design? >*Sigh*... I hate to say it, but this doesn't surprise me a bit. At = >least we know about it, so that we can take it into consideration when = >using Open Text as a search engine. >That whoooshing sound you hear is objectivity, integrity and quality = >concerns being blown out the window by the stiff wind of "vested = >interest". >Keith "criteria before cash, anyone? anyone?" Engwall Robert L. Battenfeld ********************************* Long Island University Though this be madness Southampton College Library yet there is method to 't 239 Montauk Highway Polonius, Hamlet, Act ii Southampton, NY 11968 ********************************* (516) 287-8379 rbatten@sunburn.liunet.edu http://www.southampton.liunet.edu From Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz Wed Jun 19 17:34:45 1996 From: Vivienne.Cuff at natlib.govt.nz (Vivienne Cuff) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Scenarios for the future (was HTML...) Message-ID: <5401CBF4C9A@gee.natlib.govt.nz> > Haven't we about beaten this thread to death? I fear that web4lib > may be undergoing a transition which I have seen all too often on > other library related lists. The list starts with a relatively small number of > posts exchanging useful information among practitioners and then is > overwhelmed by lengthy discussions of what librarians should or > shouldn't be doing in the "Information Age". > My 2c worth - I don't think we have exhausted it - because what is useful information? - sure, the list can include how you do X or configure y or whatever but the list should also cover the broader issues such as the impact of the Internet/WWW on libraries as organizations, the role of librarians etc... I personally would prefer discussion 'cos if I want information on practicalities I know it's on the 'Net somewhere and readily accessible using Altavista. So, going global... Does anyone know of anyone/any organization doing any work on describing future scenarios for libraries? I know there is lots of library literature about the future, but what I am interested to know if there is anyone using futures based techniques such as Peter Schwartz's scenario building - see this site - http://www.hotwired.com/wired/scenarios/build.html and for futures techniques in general, see http://ag.arizona.edu/futures/fut/semtech.html. This is an area of interest for me and I think the futures techniques could assist us to further the dialog about the impact of the Internet on libraries... So let me know of anything that's being done and I promise I will summarize for the list. Cheers Vivienne Vivienne Cuff World Wide Web National Library of New Zealand Molesworth Street (or PO Box 1467) Wellington Phone: 4743086 Int'l prefix: 644 EMAIL: Vivienne.Cuff@natlib.govt.nz WWW: http://www.natlib.govt.nz/ -------------------------------------- These are my views, and they do not necessarily reflect National Library of New Zealand policy. From donnare at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us Wed Jun 19 17:18:03 1996 From: donnare at nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us (Donna Reed) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Do librarians need basic HTML capabilities? -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer here. A more valid question is how does the library see its role in the Webbed environment and what level of responsibility are librarians willing to take. Our library, for example, has been asked to coordinate the county Web effort. This includes participating in the development of a regional Web presence (called RITNet). I act as the coordinator for the project and also am overseeing the reorganization of the library's Web site. On the county level, we decided early on that the way to create a meaningful site was to disperse responsibility to the departments and agencies involved. We wanted departments to produce "official" sites that included the ability for citizen interaction. To get these sites rolling, top level administrators, information services divisions, information officers, clericals and volunteers. The administrators buy off on the project and let the info. officers coordinate the information. Volunteers work with me to get the site going and the department takes over maintenance once the site is launched. We are now trying to use this model to revitalize our library's site and to make sure that it is being maintained on a regular basis. Back to the question.. should librarians learn HTML... HTML is a here today sort of a thing. Who knows what the environment will look like in five years? Learning HTML is not much different than learning a new word processing package. The catch is that it is much easier to direct those who are creating the documents if you know what is possible. Librarians who are aware of international standards and issues, AND who combine their professional knowledge with HTML basics produce sites that are of great benefit to their community. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Donna Reed Multnomah County Library Community Information System TEL (503) 248-5238 Program Specialist FAX (503) 248-5226 E-mail: donnare@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us http://www.multnomah.lib.or.us/ From tdowling at ohiolink.edu Wed Jun 19 17:38:09 1996 From: tdowling at ohiolink.edu (Thomas Dowling) Date: Wed May 18 14:32:55 2005 Subject: Relevancy and Ranking... by Wealth Message-ID: <199606192138.RAA