[Publib] PhD Program

[kathy Berggren]

I have a great deal of respect for Jim Casey and have used him as a mentor
on frequent occasions.  I have also lived to regret it when I didn't follow
his suggestions.  However, in this case I have to take exception to some of
Jim's comments.

Library Science was my minor as an undergraduate and I fell one class short
of a double major.  I didn't go for my Masters until much later and had
already put in over six years as a public library director before starting
on my MLIS.  Much of the curriculum in graduate school was a duplication of
classes I had taken as an undergraduate.  I also found that much of what was
covered in graduate school was theory and some of the instructors were
extremely out of touch with what was happening in the field.

Try as I might, I wasn't able to get a class in public library
administration and the general administrative class didn't cover budgeting,
leving, and related topics. 

Not every person can afford graduate school.  We have an enormous number of
smaller libraries in our state whose budgets won't cover tuition for
additional academic credit.  Also, there are those with an MLS/MLIS who
can't find a job, particularly school librarians; where if they could get a
job first, they would have security to pursue an advanced degree.

As an undergraduate working on a B.S. in Ed. I had the exact same classes as
many well known librarians in this state.  If anything, I could see ALA
putting pressure on Universities where curriculum choices are concerned, but
I don't believe it is a mistake to seek a bachelor's in library science. --
kb



Message: 6
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:19:49 -0500
From: James Casey <jcasey at olpl.org>
Subject: Re: [Publib] Ph.D. Program in Library Science
To: 'Roberta Thomas' <rthomas at grayslake.info>, Judith Turner
	<turnermalibmba at yahoo.com>,	"publib at webjunction.org"
	<publib at webjunction.org>
Message-ID:
	<A92F93E9F077624BA8BA41B790692CCD34958401A2 at EXCH1.olpl.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Resurrection of the Bachelors Degree in Librarianship would be a step in the
wrong direction, in my opinion.  One of the deficiencies I have seen among
those who can be certified as public school teachers with a Bachelors in
Education is that the bulk of study contained in that degree is often
comprised of education courses rather than a firm grounding in subject
disciplines.  The claim that many teachers "know how to teach, but don't
know what to teach" is sometimes all too true. A Bachelors degree in
Librarianship might arrive at a similar outcome.  

The prerequisite for entry into good MLS programs like Dominican and
Urbana-Champaign is a solid Bachelors degree with a high grade point average
(usually 3.0 and up).  Once the BA or BS is earned, the MLIS or MLS provides
the professional training to augment and target the undergraduate subject
disciplines mastered in that four years of study.  

As I have counseled bright people with wide ranging interests and talents,
the preparation time --- one year of full time study generally without
general exams or thesis requirement --- is not terribly long compared to
other professions and the pay is decent compared to many other professions
requiring much longer and more rigorous years of study (Pastors, College
faculty, Museum Curator, Social Worker, Journalist, etc.).

As for the Ph.D. in Librarianship, I earned one in 1985 at Case Western
Reserve University at a time when I was still contemplating work in academic
and/or special libraries where such degrees are often essential for top
management positions.  The better pay and greater challenges availed
themselves in Public Libraries, however and the doctorate proved to be more
for "show" than a necessary qualification.  On the other hand, it may
affirming to our Library's status as an institution of learning in the
Community when the Library Director can sit with School Superintendents and
University Presidents and also be called "Dr".  Sometimes "window dressing"
has its uses.

James B. Casey --- My own views
Director of Oak Lawn Public Library
ALA Council Member






-----Original Message-----
From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org [mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org]
On Behalf Of Roberta Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:26 PM
To: Judith Turner; publib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Publib] Ph.D. Program in Library Science

I am a Dominican (Rosary College back then) grad and I share your thoughts.
I'll go a step further and say, if anything, the profession should be
looking at a bachelor's degree program.

One doesn't need a masters in accounting to be an accountant, a masters in
nursing to be a nurse or a masters in education to be a teacher. One usually
needs the relevant graduate degree or certification to progress in the job
structure, responsibility and pay rate. I think a bachelors in library and
information science would provide an education sufficient for an entry-level
professional position. A masters should be required for management positions
and probably would be required for any university position.

On the downside, I would worry somewhat about libraries reducing the salary
if the bachelors replaced the masters, when librarian wages are already more
appropriate to a bachelors degree than a graduate degree.

And that's my 2 cents for the day.

Robert Thomas
Library Director


-----Original Message-----
From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org [mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org]
On Behalf Of Judith Turner
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:04 PM
To: publib at webjunction.org
Subject: [Publib] Ph.D. Program in Library Science

Now that my publib message receiving problems have been resolved (don't ask
me how, I just waited, tried to unsubscribe 4 times but never received the
confirmation messages netjunction said it sent, and then plowed through app.
150 messages between last night and this a.m.).

A little while ago I wandered over to Best of Publib to make sure I hadn't
deleted anything too crucial.  ? While there I noticed a link on the right
hand side to an ALA article about a new Ph.D. program:

http://www.ala.org/ala/alonline/currentnews/newsarchive/2009/october2009/dom
inicanphd101209.cfm

Dominican University Library School Establishes PhD Program
In a bold recession-bucking move, Dominican University in River Forest,
Illinois, has launched the first PhD program in library and information
science in its 108-year history.

While I have no intention of bashing Ph.D. programs in any discipline -
academic or profession - quite a few of my good friends have Ph.D.'s.
However, I wonder about the need (or compulsion) to educate librarians so
they can become professors in LIS programs or contribute to the degree mania
the U.S. has been experiencing over the last 40 years.

On publib, on Archives List and on Museum-L I've read so many articles about
closings, cutbacks in staffing replacing positions that formerly required
Master's degrees with positions that require Bachelor's degrees. Lots of
people (librarians and others) are out of work, for years now many MLS
graduates have been underemployed and newly-degreed individuals keep asking
about how to keep their credentials up-to-date while seeking that first,
full-time professional position and whether they should volunteer, go after
internships or take several part-time jobs to make ends meet.???

Shouldn't this be a period of time where accrediting bodies require that any
additional graduate programs, not to mention entirely new Ph.D. programs be
absolutely essential.? AS far as Library and Information Science go, not
only does the region included the U.S.'s first LIS Ph.D. (the University of
Illinois which celebrated its 61the anniversary this year) but Wisconsin,
Michigan and Indiana all have Ph.D. programs. Iowa offers an
interdisciplinary Ph.D. wherein candidate combine LIS and another major. 

In the 1980's LIS master's programs started to thin out dramatically; when
the University of Denver closed its Graduate School of Librarianship, one
had to travel from Lincoln, Nebraska to California to find a program.  Why
are we going in the other direction again?  The job market certainly doesn't
seem to support it.  One can get a Ph.D. is an academic subject like English
lit, history, sociology, anthropology, etc. for the sheer love of the
subject and perhaps use it open up a career as a writer but a Ph.D. in
Library and/or Information Studies/Science? 
 
Judy Turner
Whitefish Bay, WI?

Blogging at: http://alms-jact.blogspot.com/
and
http://judyct.wordpress.com/

"Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved." ----
"Silence in the Library"? (Doctor Who, Season 4, Ep. 8)?