[Publib] Food for fines revisited

Tue Oct 6 16:20:21 EDT 2009

Here is my take.
Darla
Patrick's former director

________________________________

From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Sweeney
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:04 PM
To: Phalbe Henriksen; PUBLIB
Subject: Re: [Publib] Food for fines revisited

Phalbe,

HAHAHA!   I LOVE your passion here!  Please allow me to address your
concerns...

Patrick Sweeney and Phalbe Henriksen wrote:

Patrick"I have to say that I love 'Food for Fines' drives...."
Phalbe"Love" doesn't make it legal.
Patrick  You're right that is absolutely true! However, from what I
understand, it had to get approved by the director, the city, the city's
attorneys, the accountants, etc... I could be wrong but I wasn't
involved in that part. However, I do remember hearing about the
conversations our director had with the city and I'm pretty sure these
issues were brought up. Maybe if my director sees this she can enlighten
us as to that process. 
Darla I spoke to the city attorney in both places I held a food for
fines. The first did not want to imply the city was accepting the food,
so we called it food and fines. They second had no issue with this. Both
were in California.

Patrick So, if you returned your items (no matter how late) with some
food (no matter how much) we would wave your fines.  We got so many
materials returned with a can of food or two that I can't imagine what
we saved in the cost of re-ordered and re-processed materials.
Phalbe Compared to what?
PatrickExcellent point! I didn't make it very clear what it was compared
to.  What I was intending to say was that getting the items returned was
cheaper than the cost of replacing the items or in many cases it was
cheaper than the cost of chasing people down with collection agencies or
staff time. 
Darla It also produce a lot of good will, so without having the time to
calculate, it seems are return rates are up over all.

Patrick "Sure, some people returned their materials with a package of
Ramen Noodles and got 20-30 dollars of fines waved..."
Phalbe Surely, you jest. You allowed them to waive any amount of fines
for any amount of food????
Patrick I NEVER jest! :)  And yes we did.  Why not? 
Darla This was about getting items returned, creating good will with our
customers, and helping the needy (our customers and the people getting
the food, some which were the same)

Patrick"...but we got the material back, we got the food..."
PhalbeNo, you didn't get the food. Some non-profit agency got the food.
And, in the end, private citizens got the food. Your only reward was the
returned material. You could have achieved the same with a fine-free
month, as far as your library is concerned.
PatrickTrue, very true, I can't argue with you here.  WE didn't get the
food...  That was very poor wording on my part.  Thank you for point it
out! I will try to do better.  So yes, a local non-profit got the food.
You are correct we absolutely could have done the same thing with a
fine-free month, however, we also got an improved image of the library
by "doing good." We got to say we give back to the community in some new
way (you could argue otherwise on this point I guess), and we got
positive PR from the local newspapers, it was like free advertising.
Darla Well said Patrick. 

Patrick"...and got the patron to come back to the library.  Really it
was a WIN, WIN, WIN situation."
PhalbeUmmm, you *want* that patron back????
PatrickI don't understand this, maybe you could explain it to me.  You
don't *want* patrons at your library?  If you have any positions open
I'd love to apply.  I was just thinking the other day that I could get
so much more done if it weren't for all these pesky patrons running
around and checking out all the books and everything.  I just don't
trust them! 
Darla Why do we open the doors? Should we go back to close stacks? Most
patrons with overdue fines and lost materials are still caught up with
the stigma that they are in more trouble if they return the item. This
process makes them more aware of just the opposite and it creates future
successful library users, especially the younger ones. 

Patrick"I would also like to point out that for every person who brought
in 1 package of ramen noodles or the like, we got people who didn't owe
fines bringing in food for the local community pantry that we were
donating the food to and we also got people bringing in WAY more food
than their fines were worth."
PhalbeOK, so why not just do a food drive with the library as the
drop-off point?

PatrickThat's an excellent point! We SHOULD do that.  I'll bring this up
at the next meeting!  Thanks! :)  I think this is especially good since
we are coming up on Thanksgiving. 

Darla We have been doing a toy drive. Now with this success a food drive
will be part of the holidays and possibly other times of the year.

Patrick"I can't figure out a bad angle to look at this from, and I
tried!"
Phalbe I can, and I've pointed it out. *No one* has said that their
county's attorney and/or elected board has approved this. The IRS has a
new rule in place that anyone who has a cel  phone paid for by their
employer has to declare the value of the number of minutes they spent on
personal phone calls as "income" on their tax return. Do you think that
same IRS would say, "OK, no prob. Let people donate food, and be able to
use it as a tax deduction, to a local non-profit in order to write off a
local government debt"????

Patrick I think that whether or not the attorneys and accountants were
involved is an excellent concern.  But I would suggest that most cities
and counties wouldn't just allow a library to do something like this
without bringing it before city council and the city manager and getting
approvals.  I would suggest your library ask your accountants and
attorneys and not a listserv.  They're on retainer, make'em earn it! :) 

Darla I highly recommend you get your local jurisdiction's and
attorney's sign off on this. The key is food was encouraged, not
required. It was a fine free period with a food drive.  

 Think about it, people!

Phalbe Henriksen

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