[Publib] Adults in children's area

Thu Jan 31 10:20:48 EST 2008

Thank you Carolyn and Margaret.

I know my director is quite capable of defending herself but I just want to
say the comment of subs itoors was catty in the extreme and appears to
represent the presumed superiority of big city residents.  And, by the by,
Blue Island may be smallish but Chicago is decidedly BIG.  Chicago is just
across the street from Blue Island and we get all of the urban problems any
New York or LA library may have.

I wonder how many of those children being stolen from public places ALL THE
TIME are actually snatched by a parent in a custodial difference.

Lynne S. Ingersoll
Reference Services Manager
Technical Services Manager
Blue Island Public Library
2433 York Street
Blue Island, IL 60406
(708) 388-1078 x20
(708) 388-9301 Fax

-----Original Message-----
From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org [mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org]
On Behalf Of Rawles-Heiser, Carolyn
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:30 PM
To: publib at webjunction.org
Subject: RE: [Publib] Adults in children's area

I totally agree.   But we do need to consider the source, which is a
person who doesn't stand behind his or her opinion enough to even sign a
name!  It's awfully easy to attack other people anonymously. Thankfully
Publib gets very little of this sort of thing and most people are able
to disagree respectfully.

Carolyn

Carolyn Rawles-Heiser
Library Director
Corvallis--Benton County Public Library
645 NW Monroe Ave.
Corvallis, OR  97330

-----Original Message-----
From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Margaret Neill
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:15 PM
To: publib at webjunction.org
Subject: RE: [Publib] Adults in children's area

I believe Patty was making a valid point in that making rules requires
sound judgment and an understanding of individual library needs. Her
reply was not at all inflammatory, nor did it attack any individuals for
their replies in this thread. 

I am less impressed with the replies of "sub itoors" which were hostile
and rude and did less to address the issue at hand, which is a
discussion of the merits, problems and legalities of policies regarding
adults in children's areas, than to attack and alter the tone of this
discussion. Obviously, there are some very high emotions and personal
experiences that color how one sees this argument; I do not believe,
however, that such hostile replies have any place on this list, nor do I
believe that they are appropriate. 

Let's be civil, shall we?

Margaret M. Neill
Library Manager, Technical Services and Systems Thomas Branigan Memorial
Library 200 E. Picacho Ave. 
Las Cruces, NM 88001
Office: (575) 528-4043
Fax: (575) 528-4030
mneill at las-cruces.org

"Everyone who knows how to read has it in their power to magnify
themselves, multiple the ways in which they exist, to make their life
full, significant, and interesting."
- Aldous Huxley 

-----Original Message-----
From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of subs itoors
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:40 PM
To: Patty Wanninger
Cc: publib at webjunction.org
Subject: Re: [Publib] Adults in children's area

Have you been to a large city lately?

There are several VERY effective ways to make public spaces secure-- and
NY post 9/11 I can assure you has perfected many of them. How big is
your town? Have you lived in manhattan or a very large city? Your
ability to make judgements about the way people should do things in
places where 2+ million people live in confined quarters is
questionable.

As for your 1874 comment, I'll be sure to pass your insensitive comments
on to the two mothers I know personally whose children were kidnapped
(one killed, the other has never been found) in the past few years from
public New York spaces.

Do you believe everything you read in the paper and assume things that
happen are always in it?

Why don't you do a search of the children who drown in public resort
pools--the PR people are so effective they never even make it to the
paper. Including the boy who drowned 5 feet away from me in August this
summer.

On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Patty Wanninger wrote:

> I think policies regarding appropriate behavior can be written that 
> reserve the use of children's rooms to children and people interested 
> in children's literature (which would include the developmentally 
> disabled, teachers, grandparents, etc.) and allow the removal of 
> unattended adults who just like to hang around the kiddies to another 
> part of the library.
>
> I also think there can be policies written regarding appropriate 
> behavior that absolutely allow for the mitigation of the behavior of 
> the toddler having a meltdown in the adult area.
>
> However, there is no policy that can make the children's room or any 
> other room in a public facility a "secure public space." Although I 
> frankly disbelieve that children are kidnapped from public places ALL 
> THE TIME, even in Manhattan, (I did a google search on it and came up 
> with a NYT article from 1874) I also think that despite our best 
> efforts, the library is a public building, and no more appropriate a 
> place to leave your child to autonomously walk around than the mall.
>
> Libraries are such an amazing public resource, and running them takes 
> judgment, brains and maturity to score in a balk line game, as 
> Professor Harold Hill says. If we have a brand besides "books," I 
> think it is "access"
> and whether you have 5 people in the door per hour or 500, it 
> certainly is a challenge to have them all get along.
>
> Patty Dwyer Wanninger
> Director
> Blue Island Public Library
> 2433 York Street
> Blue Island, IL 60406
> 708-388-1078 ext 14
> -----Original Message-----
> From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org
[mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org 
> ]
> On Behalf Of subs itoors
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:52 PM
> To: publib at webjunction.org
> Subject: [Publib] Adults in children's area
>
> Hello Wynita:
>
> I'm afraid I'm in complete disagreement with you. First of all, I'm 
> sad that you use the word brat to describe children--especially anyone

> who works in a public service job. But I will not get drawn into an 
> argument with you about your attitude towards future generations.
>
> I also think you fail to understand a much more fundamental issue.
> Perhaps in your teeny library it is easy for a child to be watched on 
> monitored every minute. And yes, if your library is truly that small, 
> clearly it is not such a big issue to have kids in the same space, 
> because ostensibly you know the kids coming in and would see if 
> someone they don't belong to is taking them.
>
> However, there is a much more concerning issue in larger spaces. It is

> almost impossible for a parent in a larger children's library (for 
> example the 6,000 square foot space near us) to watch their child all 
> the time--not to mention that it is an important developmental issue 
> to allow children of a certain age the autonomy to walk around secure 
> public spaces.
>
> Adults have many many other choices of places they can go--the world 
> is open to them for public places to relax. They can go to the park, 
> to a store, to Starbucks, to JCCs, churches, community centers and so 
> on. iIf your community does not have adequate public accommodations 
> for adults, then that is what you should be advocating for.
>
> However, children have far more limited places they can go to relax 
> and learn, especially in winter. there are many people like you who 
> consider kids who are just being kids "brats" so families are 
> restricted in the places that they can take them where they can be 
> lively and natural.
>
> In the city I live in, kids are stolen from public places ALL THE 
> TIME. That is how the rule evolved.
>
> The easiest way to protect children is to create spaces for adults 
> that are plentiful enough but to restrict children's areas to 
> children.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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