[Publib] Army and homeless

Tue Sep 18 11:03:17 EDT 2007

War - it's historically been an odd business for sure, I remember that
officially Viet Nam wasn't a war-  it was officially termed "conflict"
& as someone who spent my teen years in that era, I remember the fear
over communism spreading. Yet, VN is still a communist country but
what has changed is the US attitude (except perhaps Miami:-) about
communism. US citizens can/do visit China, VN, etc. & we *do call it
the VN *war.  I think this is one of the reasons why many of my
generation just didn't buy the WOMD excuse.. W/i a few decades, the
only thing we'll be wondering about is what happened to the contents
of the great Iraqi museums - I doubt they'll be showing up in the
British Museum this time ;-)
We will always have seemingly good reasons for war as well as always
those people who just want to have a good time traveling to new places
& sharing in different cultures - something my step grandfather did in
France while as a soldier during WW I & got a wonderful French wife,
family  & friends from the visit.
It seems one always follows the other  - something to keep in mind
when contemplating war, going to war, being at war, etc.  - There
isn't one battlefield that hasn't inevitably become a tourist stop,
nor spawned a love affair.
Karen

On 9/17/07, Adelaide Rowe <Adelaide.Rowe at egvpl.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Having a child in the military who had his best friend killed twenty feet
> away from him (they are both USMC helicopter pilots), I get pretty upset
> about everything that involves Iraq. Nothing like getting an email from your
> son saying that he visited his friend in the morgue, and he helped carry his
> flag draped body onto a helicopter.
>
>
>
> One stat I don't think has been mentioned, but perhaps I missed a post, was
> the fact that 100,000 Iraqis are leaving the country each month. It
> apparently has doubled since the surge. Does that happen in California?
> Those Fox News talking points disgust me. There will always be accidents and
> murders, and certainly young males are the most affected.  If we want to
> reduce those murders, there are things we can do better, but there is never
> the money for that, unless it involves Iraq apparently, and then there is a
> no-bid overabundance, and if you are against it, you don't support the
> troops.
>
>
>
> The Bush gang started this unnecessary war and in my mind, all the blood is
> on their hands. If you want to hawk this war, please look at your own son or
> daughter or niece or neighbor. If the cause is not great enough for them to
> die or be permanently maimed for, don't ask others to do it.
>
>
>
>  A woman on AOL told me a few days ago, that her grandson was going to be
> deployed in October for 18 months. I didn't think that was even possible,
> but she insists that is what he said. He has already been to Afghanistan
> once, and to Iraq where he would have been killed had his SGT not asked him
> to get some bandaids from the truck to take them elsewhere. The hummer was
> subsequently blown up and he only got hit with scrap metal, while two others
> in the truck were killed.
>
>
>
> I work in a town of 35,000 and I can tell you that we had 4 deaths from Iraq
> in one year. Considering how few are actually in the military – that is an
> amazing statistic. And we do not average 4 murders per year.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok, I always have to add my two cents, and I just cannot believe what our
> country has become. Sorry for the ranting.
>
>
>
>
> Adelaide Rowe
>
> Head of Youth Services
>
> Elk Grove Village Public Library
>
> 1001 Wellington
>
> Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
>
> 847-439-0447 ext. 252 or 267
>
> arowe at egvpl.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org [mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org]
> On Behalf Of Fred Beisser
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:05 PM
> To: Kathleen Horan
> Cc: publib at webjunction.org
> Subject: Re: [Publib] Army and homeless
>
>
>
>
> As someone said, why is this topic on Publib?
>
> But since its life here continues, we may as well address some issues
> raised.
>
> How safe is a war zone. Here is a useful statistic about violent death rates
> in Iraq. The annualized Iraqi civilian violent death rate is 27.5 per
> 100,000, a lower rate than many places in the USA some of which are:
>
>  - pre-Katrina New Orleans 53.1 per 100,000 population
>  - Washington, D.C.; 45.9
>  - Detroit, 41.8. .
>  - Baltimore, 37.7
>  - Atlanta, 34.9
>  - St. Louis, 31.4
>  - Oakland, CA 26.1
> Stats are from Front Page Magazine at
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={31822083-2853-4381-8762-E444A1709B38}
> and from
> http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/ia05_king/sp_20060503_stats.html..
>
> Maybe it is safer to go into military service than to stay home in some
> parts of the country. With almost 1.5 million on active duty in our Armed
> Forces there is about one chance in seven or eight of those members arriving
> in a combat zone. We have about 160,000 to 180,000 (latter anticipated soon
> according to today's news) in Iraq and about 15,000 additional troops in the
> Middle East (including Afghanistan but under NATO operational control) for a
> total of almost 200,000 (tops). (See
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States
> for these stats) So, maybe 1 out of 7.5 recruits would wind up in a combat
> zone. Don't forget, for every combat soldier/airman/seaman in the zone there
> are also a lot of support personnel required to keep things like logistics
> flowing. The probablity of landing in a combat zone goes down further when
> we add in the 1.3 million reserve and national guard forces that also
> contribute to the combat zone total bringing the rate down to about 1 out of
> 14 who might be assigned to a combat zone. Not a very high percentage at
> 7.2%.
>
> Military Recruiters. The recruiters have a big incentive to NOT lie; it is
> called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If convicted by a military
> court under the UCMJ, they would be fined,  reduced in rank and most likely
> out on the street themselves and that probably after some time in the
> "brig." I suspect if lying or dishonesty in recruiting  happens, it is the
> exception rather than common practice. Also, a significant part of the noise
> about that may be selective hearing on the part of candidates when a lot of
> information is coming at them and they are excited about leaving home so
> they hear what they wanted to hear and did not pay attention to the other
> information. For more on recruiters see
> http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter.htm.
> It is a sales job just as selling the library is a sales and marketing job;
> recruiters go to where they can make the sales and the buyer benefits from
> what they have to offer. The candidate has to be literate and with very very
> few exceptions must have a high school diploma or equivalent. (See
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/faqged.htm).
>
> Of course it is not often that a recruiter can enlist a patriotic Pat
> Tillman from the NFL
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman) for a begnning
> compensation package of about $25,022 per annum plus health care in kind
> (just loved those military medics poking around me for 25 years). The
> package consists of a starting salary of $14,450 per annum (see
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2007paycharts/l/bl07enlbasepay1.htm)
> plus housing allowance (if living off base) of $7,212 (In the Brownsville,
> TX area; higher/lower in other places) and a subsistance (meals) allowance,
> when no military dining facility is available, of $3,360 per annum. However,
> realize that as a basic trainee, you belong to the drill instructor during
> basic training and you will not see the outside of the training base for
> three or so months and therefore are not eligible for housing and
> subsistance allowances. Generally the first year or two of service will have
> the military member living on base or on ship.
>
> From the latest statistics (see
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/07recruiting.htm)
> it looks to me as if the Services are meeting their recruiting goals:
>
>
>
> "All four of the DOD services exceeded their recruiting goals in August
> 2007:
>
> ·         Army: Recruited 10,126 out of a goal of 9,600 (106 percent)
>
> ·         Navy: Recruited 4,194 out of a goal of 4,194 (100 percent)
>
> ·         Marine Corps: Recruiting 4,700 out of a goal of 4,472 (105
> percent)
>
> ·         Air Force: Recruiting 3,128 out of a goal of 3,128 (100 percent)"
>
>
> I don't recall hearing anything indicating that our Uncle Sam is officially
> trying to resolve the homeless problem with military service. If there is a
> documented source for that assertion, I would love to see it.
>
> I would also be interested in learning how the military's beginning
> compensation package of $25,000 compares with that in other places. I see
> that the 2005 median income (certainly much higher than a beginning salary)
> for McAllen, TX is about $35,000 and for all of Texas is about $42,000
> (source http://www.city-data.com/city/McAllen-Texas.html).
> And around that bridge in Minneapolis, where this post originally began, the
> median income is about $42,000 and for Minnesota it is $53,000 (source:
> http://www.city-data.com/city/Minneapolis-Minnesota.html).
> And out my way the median income is $49,600 for Elizabeth, Colorado and
> $50,600 for the statewide median (see
> http://www.city-data.com/city/Elizabeth-Colorado.html). And
> in the teaming metropolis of Paris, Tennessee ()population almost 10,000),
> the median income is $24,600 and for the state it is about $39,000. That
> kind of data may explain why we see more military members coming from less
> prosperous parts of the nation.
>
> If you really want potential recruits to be well informed, you would better
> accomplish that by accepting the "propaganda" from the military services and
> complementing it with information from about.com such as is available at
> http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/military101.htm.
> It is very comprehensive and apprises the reader of just about everything
> that can happen if he or she is contemplating military service.
>
> Perhaps with this, more than anyone really ever wanted to know about the
> military and homeless, we can finally assign this topic to the archives.
>
> Fred Beisser
> Trustee
> www.elbertcountylibrary.org
> Colorado
>
>
>
>
> Kathleen Horan wrote:
>
>
> Amen to that sentiment, Susan.  Recruiters go after the most vulnerable
> members of society and succeed in seducing them.  It makes me furious when
> various reps from the armed forces come into the library wanting me to
> display their propaganda. I politely tell them no, we don't post anything
> that isn't educational or non-profit, and these guys blink their puppy-dog
> eyes and insist with all sincerity that the army/navy/marines/air force IS
> an education.  Sorry, I'd rather promote an education wherein the student
> stands a lesser chance of being shot or blown up or screwed up.  Local and
> national government never know what to do with the homeless. Now they want
> to eliminate through recruitment.  It's pathetic.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kathleen P. Horan, M.L.S.
>
>
> Branch Manager
>
>
> Palm View Branch Library
>
>
> McAllen, TX
>
>
> 956-688-3322
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org on behalf of Susan Dennis
> Sent: Sat 9/15/2007 10:57 AM
> To: publib at webjunction.org
> Subject: [Publib] Army and homeless
>
>
> I was also wondering what that had to do with library services.
>
> What bothers me in all these posts of praise is that they ignore the
> elephant in the room. Great you get a lot of training, but oops, there's
> that pesky war thing. So you join up (usually based on lies many recruiters
> are known to tell) with promises of training and a home and a chance for
> education. Then you find out that to earn it, you have to risk life and limb
> and mental stability.
>
> If they want to take that chance and they are fully informed, great. But it
> bothers me that the government is pursuing those who are more desperate or
> less likely to be informed about the truth of military recruiting or
> understand the contracts that they sign.
>
>
> Susan Dennis
> ________________________________
>
>
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
>

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-- 
Karen Mahnk,
Reference Librarian
Lake Park Public Library
529 Park Avenue
Lake Park, Fl., 33403
561 881-3330 Fax: 561881-3336
kmahnk at lakeparkflorida.gov
www.lakepark-fl.gov