[Fwd: Re: [Publib] Army and homeless]

[Fred Beisser]

Thanks for your thoughts, Robert.

I agree that one should critically look at news  and other reports  so I 
checked the John Hopkins report(s) published in Lancet in 2004 and the 
latter one in 2006. It seems the conclusions reported may not be quite 
so straight forward as reported in the news. See an article in the 
Washington Post at 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html, 
but read the last several paragraphs indicating actual figures are 
somewhere between 44,000 and 128,000 versus the survey's 655,000. More 
on this at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_mortality_before_and_after_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq. 


"Combat Zone" was intended to be the entire country of Iraq as any 
military assigned to the country will receive combat pay at the 
exorbitant rate of $225 per month (see 
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/fy2005paycharts/a/combatpay.htm).

You are right, in today's insurgent arena there is no "front line." But, 
there are a number of bases/posts outside of heavily populated areas 
where one would theoretically be out of the line of fire for the most 
part. Still would not be my favorite place to play....nor would the 
"Green Zone" in Bagdhad be one either.

And if one wants to avoid the worst places, it would make sense to go 
Air Force (as I did long ago for other reasons) or Navy as both of those 
typically have only pilots (aside from the Navy Seals) in the thick of 
combat. The info about military service on About.com is, I thought, very 
comprehsive and not misleading.

Is the horse now maybe dead????

Fred

Robert L. Balliot wrote:

> Greetings Fred,
>
>  
>
> According to the 2006 study by Johns Hopkins published in Lancet,
>
> 655,000 Iraqi civilians had died as a result of the war.
>
>  
>
> http://tinyurl.com/qgtny
>
>  
>
> I have a hard time looking at any news article or set of statistics 
> without
>
> quite a bit of skepticism.  However, those statistics show a mortality
>
> rate of  an additional 800 per 100,000 over and above pre-invasion
>
> statistics attributable to the war - about 30 times the statistic you
>
> have quoted here. 
>
>  
>
> I am not sure what is meant your reference to the term 'combat zone' -
>
> if that means that combat is currently occurring or if it could occur. 
>
> But, it seems to me that the country of Iraq is a combat zone.  I think
>
> you would be hard pressed to find anyone who is not in harms way.
>
>  
>
> The idea that there is relative security for support personnel may be
>
> somewhat accurate under normal wartime conditions, but I don't
>
> think there is a front line or a rear echelon.    I think it diminishes
>
> the bravery of the troops providing support to imply that they are
>
> as safe as they would be in the US.
>
>  
>
> I  always welcomed recruiters and recruiting information in the library. 
>
> Some of the best technical and managerial training anywhere is available
>
> through the military schools.  It is a career choice and a lifestyle
>
> choice that is right for some people and an honorable profession.
>
> When also had plenty of supporting documentation and references available
>
> to help people with questions about what recruiters would offer.
>
>  
>
> *******************************************
>
> Join: http://gotbooks.ning.com/
>
> Robert L. Balliot
>
> 1-401-441-5763
>
> Skype: RBalliot
>
> Bristol, Rhode Island
>
> http://oceanstatelibrarian.com/contact.htm
>
> *******************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: publib-bounces at webjunction.org 
> [mailto:publib-bounces at webjunction.org] On Behalf Of Fred Beisser
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: Kathleen Horan
> Cc: publib at webjunction.org
> Subject: Re: [Publib] Army and homeless
>
>  
>
> As someone said, why is this topic on Publib?
>
> But since its life here continues, we may as well address some issues 
> raised.
>
> How safe is a war zone. Here is a useful statistic about violent death 
> rates in Iraq. The annualized Iraqi civilian violent death rate is 
> 27.5 per 100,000, a lower rate than many places in the USA some of 
> which are:
>
>  - pre-Katrina New Orleans 53.1 per 100,000 population
>  - Washington, D.C.; 45.9
>  - Detroit, 41.8. .
>  - Baltimore, 37.7
>  - Atlanta, 34.9
>  - St. Louis, 31.4
>  - Oakland, CA 26.1
> Stats are from Front Page Magazine at 
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={31822083-2853-4381-8762-E444A1709B38 
> <http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=%7b31822083-2853-4381-8762-E444A1709B38>}
> and from 
> http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/ia05_king/sp_20060503_stats.html..
>
> Maybe it is safer to go into military service than to stay home in 
> some parts of the country. With almost 1.5 million on active duty in 
> our Armed Forces there is about one chance in seven or eight of those 
> members arriving in a combat zone. We have about 160,000 to 180,000 
> (latter anticipated soon according to today's news) in Iraq and about 
> 15,000 additional troops in the Middle East (including Afghanistan but 
> under NATO operational control) for a total of almost 200,000 (tops). 
> (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States for 
> these stats) So, maybe 1 out of 7.5 recruits would wind up in a combat 
> zone. Don't forget, for every combat soldier/airman/seaman in the zone 
> there are also a lot of support personnel required to keep things like 
> logistics flowing. The probablity of landing in a combat zone goes 
> down further when we add in the 1.3 million reserve and national guard 
> forces that also contribute to the combat zone total bringing the rate 
> down to about 1 out of 14 who might be assigned to a combat zone. Not 
> a very high percentage at 7.2%.
>
> Military Recruiters. The recruiters have a big incentive to NOT lie; 
> it is called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If convicted by a 
> military court under the UCMJ, they would be fined,  reduced in rank 
> and most likely out on the street themselves and that probably after 
> some time in the "brig." I suspect if lying or dishonesty in 
> recruiting  happens, it is the exception rather than common practice. 
> Also, a significant part of the noise about that may be selective 
> hearing on the part of candidates when a lot of information is coming 
> at them and they are excited about leaving home so they hear what they 
> wanted to hear and did not pay attention to the other information. For 
> more on recruiters see 
> http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter.htm. It is a 
> sales job just as selling the library is a sales and marketing job; 
> recruiters go to where they can make the sales and the buyer benefits 
> from what they have to offer. The candidate has to be literate and 
> with very very few exceptions must have a high school diploma or 
> equivalent. (See 
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/faqged.htm).
>
> Of course it is not often that a recruiter can enlist a patriotic Pat 
> Tillman from the NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman) for a 
> begnning compensation package of about $25,022 per annum plus health 
> care in kind (just loved those military medics poking around me for 25 
> years). The package consists of a starting salary of $14,450 per annum 
> (see 
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2007paycharts/l/bl07enlbasepay1.htm) 
> plus housing allowance (if living off base) of $7,212 (In the 
> Brownsville, TX area; higher/lower in other places) and a subsistance 
> (meals) allowance, when no military dining facility is available, of 
> $3,360 per annum. However, realize that as a basic trainee, you belong 
> to the drill instructor during basic training and you will not see the 
> outside of the training base for three or so months and therefore are 
> not eligible for housing and subsistance allowances. Generally the 
> first year or two of service will have the military member living on 
> base or on ship.
>
> From the latest statistics (see 
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/07recruiting.htm) 
> it looks to me as if the Services are meeting their recruiting goals:
>
> "All four of the DOD services exceeded their recruiting goals in 
> August 2007:
>
>     * Army: Recruited 10,126 out of a goal of 9,600 (106 percent)
>     * Navy: Recruited 4,194 out of a goal of 4,194 (100 percent)
>     * Marine Corps: Recruiting 4,700 out of a goal of 4,472 (105 percent)
>     * Air Force: Recruiting 3,128 out of a goal of 3,128 (100 percent)"
>
>
> I don't recall hearing anything indicating that our Uncle Sam is 
> officially trying to resolve the homeless problem with military 
> service. If there is a documented source for that assertion, I would 
> love to see it.
>
> I would also be interested in learning how the military's beginning 
> compensation package of $25,000 compares with that in other places. I 
> see that the 2005 median income (certainly much higher than a 
> beginning salary) for McAllen, TX is about $35,000 and for all of 
> Texas is about $42,000 (source 
> http://www.city-data.com/city/McAllen-Texas.html). And around that 
> bridge in Minneapolis, where this post originally began, the median 
> income is about $42,000 and for Minnesota it is $53,000 (source: 
> http://www.city-data.com/city/Minneapolis-Minnesota.html). And out my 
> way the median income is $49,600 for Elizabeth, Colorado and $50,600 
> for the statewide median (see 
> http://www.city-data.com/city/Elizabeth-Colorado.html). And in the 
> teaming metropolis of Paris, Tennessee ()population almost 10,000), 
> the median income is $24,600 and for the state it is about $39,000. 
> That kind of data may explain why we see more military members coming 
> from less prosperous parts of the nation.
>
> If you really want potential recruits to be well informed, you would 
> better accomplish that by accepting the "propaganda" from the military 
> services and complementing it with information from about.com such as 
> is available at 
> http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/military101.htm. It is 
> very comprehensive and apprises the reader of just about everything 
> that can happen if he or she is contemplating military service.
>
> Perhaps with this, more than anyone really ever wanted to know about 
> the military and homeless, we can finally assign this topic to the 
> archives.
>
> Fred Beisser
> Trustee
> www.elbertcountylibrary.org <http://www.elbertcountylibrary.org>
> Colorado
>
>
>  
>
> Kathleen Horan wrote:
>
> Amen to that sentiment, Susan.  Recruiters go after the most 
> vulnerable members of society and succeed in seducing them.  It makes 
> me furious when various reps from the armed forces come into the 
> library wanting me to display their propaganda. I politely tell them 
> no, we don't post anything that isn't educational or non-profit, and 
> these guys blink their puppy-dog eyes and insist with all sincerity 
> that the army/navy/marines/air force IS an education.  Sorry, I'd 
> rather promote an education wherein the student stands a lesser chance 
> of being shot or blown up or screwed up.  Local and national 
> government never know what to do with the homeless. Now they want 
> to eliminate through recruitment.  It's pathetic.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Kathleen P. Horan, M.L.S.
>
> Branch Manager
>
> Palm View Branch Library
>
> McAllen, TX
>
> 956-688-3322
>
> 
>
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